What do you think of Waldorf schools?

[madteaparty]

I know the way the philosophy is implemented varies by school. DD goes to a true Montessori school now, on a farm, etc and i think it's great for the lower grades. I am supposed to put her in public school soon, but the school is kind of ugly and that bothers me. Methinks we are a bit spoiled from the Montessori one. Anyway, there is a Waldorf school nearby, so I am considering. I don't even believe in paying $ for kindergarten but here we are.

Edited July 1, 2016 by madteaparty

[regentrude]

I like the Waldort pedagogy in the preschool/kindergarten years and would have considered it for my children.

I disagree with the anthroposophic underpinnings, but could have made it work.

 

I strongly dislike Waldorf pedagogy for elementary and beyond, because they have very rigid ideas about children's readiness for academics and intentionally delay academics. For my highly gifted child who was an early and passionate reader and who read on high school level in grade 3, a Waldorf school would have been absolutely disastrous. OTOH, it would have been a great choice for a student who is academically delayed because of the gentler approach or an artistically inclined student because of the strong focus on arts and music. But for a student whose strength and passion is in academic areas, no way.

Edited July 1, 2016 by regentrude

[SparklyUnicorn]

Not a fan, but like Montessori, that sort of stuff varies wildly.  It can range from something resembling a strange cult to let's be more fun and earthy when it comes to learning.

 

 

[kiana]

I strongly dislike Waldorf pedagogy for elementary and beyond, because they have very rigid ideas about children's readiness for academics and intentionally delay academics. For my highly gifted child who was an early and passionate reader and who read on high school level in grade 3, a Waldorf school would have been absolutely disastrous. OTOH, it would have been a great choice for a student who is academically delayed because of the gentler approach or an artistically inclined student because of the strong focus on arts and music. But for a student whose strength and passion is in academic areas, no way.

 

This is exactly why my mother didn't send me to a Waldorf school -- they banned the children from reading, even on their own time. It seems pretty common. 

[madteaparty]

I like the Waldort pedagogy in the preschool/kindergarten years and would have considered it for my children.

I disagree with the anthroposophic underpinnings, but could have made it work.

 

I strongly dislike Waldorf pedagogy for elementary and beyond, because they have very rigid ideas about children's readiness for academics and intentionally delay academics. For my highly gifted child who was an early and passionate reader and who read on high school level in grade 3, a Waldorf school would have been absolutely disastrous. OTOH, it would have been a great choice for a student who is academically delayed because of the gentler approach or an artistically inclined student because of the strong focus on arts and music. But for a student whose strength and passion is in academic areas, no way.

Yes I specifically know about older kids in the school being a full grade behind. I'd only consider it for K. We will have to afterschool no matter where she goes. The Montessori worked great for her because she was the youngest in a mixed class, so she is "ahead"...

[Matryoshka]

I like the Waldort pedagogy in the preschool/kindergarten years and would have considered it for my children.

I disagree with the anthroposophic underpinnings, but could have made it work.

 

I strongly dislike Waldorf pedagogy for elementary and beyond, because they have very rigid ideas about children's readiness for academics and intentionally delay academics. For my highly gifted child who was an early and passionate reader and who read on high school level in grade 3, a Waldorf school would have been absolutely disastrous. OTOH, it would have been a great choice for a student who is academically delayed because of the gentler approach or an artistically inclined student because of the strong focus on arts and music. But for a student whose strength and passion is in academic areas, no way.

This exactly.

[Arcadia]

The one we looked at was $23k for kindergarten. Kids seems happy there but parents do after school academics. Many parents seem to be deciding year by year. The school is a preschool-12th with 5 batch of students graduated and in college. The location is in a relatively affluent area.

[regentrude]

The one we looked at was $23k for kindergarten. 

 

And people complain about college tuition??? This is nuts.

[ktgrok]

I'm trying to imagine spending $23K on kindergarten and can't. I'd take that money and travel Europe for a while instead. 

[AmandaVT]

The one near us is extremely rigid and, well, odd. My friend sent her DS and was always getting complaints from the teachers because her kid acted in a totally kid like fashion. It got to the point where they were rushing up to her at pickup to breathlessly tell her that her DS TRIED TO JUMP OFF THE SWING!!!!! And that she needed to get a handle on her kid who was apparently supposed to spending all of his waking hours in wonderment of the fairy houses that is nature. 

 

She bought him a planet box lunch box and he was very excited to use it until the note came home saying that all children must bring lunches in wicker baskets with checked or plain cloth napkins covering the lunch only. 

 

They had him do two years of K because he was "still enjoying his imaginative mind too much" to be "pushed" ahead to 1st grade. She switched him to a public school this year because she was tired of their ways and tuition was going up to unreasonable levels and he started off the year behind (from being held back) but still at the bottom of the class. He's a bright kid, but this particular school did him a disservice IMO not allowing him to learn to read or move ahead with his peers. He's by far the oldest in his upcoming 2nd grade class and still a bit behind, although catching up quickly thankfully.

[madteaparty]

I'm trying to imagine spending $23K on kindergarten and can't. I'd take that money and travel Europe for a while instead.

I'm not spending that, but those who do sometimes do both ;)

[madteaparty]

The one near us is extremely rigid and, well, odd. My friend sent her DS and was always getting complaints from the teachers because her kid acted in a totally kid like fashion. It got to the point where they were rushing up to her at pickup to breathlessly tell her that her DS TRIED TO JUMP OFF THE SWING!!!!! And that she needed to get a handle on her kid who was apparently supposed to spending all of his waking hours in wonderment of the fairy houses that is nature.

 

She bought him a planet box lunch box and he was very excited to use it until the note came home saying that all children must bring lunches in wicker baskets with checked or plain cloth napkins covering the lunch only.

 

They had him do two years of K because he was "still enjoying his imaginative mind too much" to be "pushed" ahead to 1st grade. She switched him to a public school this year because she was tired of their ways and tuition was going up to unreasonable levels and he started off the year behind (from being held back) but still at the bottom of the class. He's a bright kid, but this particular school did him a disservice IMO not allowing him to learn to read or move ahead with his peers. He's by far the oldest in his upcoming 2nd grade class and still a bit behind, although catching up quickly thankfully.

Wow. That would not fly here. Omg

[eternalsummer]

I made this thread last winter:

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/586530-waldorf-and-giftedness-any-advice-appreciated/

 

It's specifically about a 2nd grade student but the idea is pretty much the same for lower grades.  It is a good school for my DD11, though, who is highly gifted, primarily because her teacher is very flexible, not really ideologically tied to Waldorf, and she loves the arts and stories anyway.

[Arcadia]

And people complain about college tuition??? This is nuts.

Rent and mortgage is crazy high here. Google HQ is nearby.

 

  

I'm trying to imagine spending $23K on kindergarten and can't. I'd take that money and travel Europe for a while instead.

 

The families can do both. Tuition alone is $33k for the high school levels of same school.

[eternalsummer]

My experience is of just the one, and it is a public charter.

 

Some thoughts are: they are very involved in your life, and would like to be as involved as possible.  They ban all electronics for children until I think age 14.  Because this is a public charter, they're a bit more flexible about it (no electronics, including things like radio music, during the weekdays).  The teachers all use iphones all day, though.

 

The way the school functions is almost the opposite of Montessori.  A lot of the ephemera are similar - real materials, etc. - but the structure is completely opposite.

 

So where in Montessori (as I understand) the child is encouraged to proceed at his own pace through a series of activities, and choose which he wants to do when, in a Waldorf school the emphasis is on whole=class learning.  Everyone learns the same thing at the same time, and recites lessons together.  There is no differentiation.  They don't believe in differentiation.  Everyone makes the same watercolor painting at art time, and copies the same drawings off of the chalkboard at lesson time, and sings the same math chants together at math time.  

 

Also, be aware that for some schools, the class stays together (with the same teacher) for all 8 years (1-8).  This is great if you get a class and teacher that fit your DD well; if you don't, the social dynamics can be very rigid.

 

There are some aspects of personality they consider less desirable.  I was relating to my DD's gym teacher (they call it Games) that she's gotten very competitive of late and wants to find something she can really excel in - she likes to win.  The teacher was visibly concerned and said she wondered what heart imbalance (I have the terminology wrong, but it was something like that) the inclination was stemming from.  She clearly saw it as a problem to solve (too competitive!  wanting to win things!) instead of a personality trait to find an outlet for.

 

All of that said - if your kid is a Waldorf kid at heart - sort of average academically, loves art and stories and music and gardening/nature, good fine motor skills, not too sharp of personality (but not a pushover either, as the kids are encouraged to explore bullying in 1st/2nd grade), likes to do group things instead of individual things - she might like it and do well there.

[nature girl]

My sister, who is very crunchy, sent my niece to a Waldorf charter last year, and they loved it. Very nurturing, and yes, they don't push the academics...but they didn't disallow it like was said earlier. You hear many things about it being a cult, but I think that's overblown for most of the schools. My niece (who was homeschooled the year before) learned to read later than K, but could read and write fluently by 2nd grade. I don't think they taught more than basic reading and writing that year (she was in a K-2 class) but she did it herself in the afternoons.

 

Next year they're moving so she's going to a larger private Waldorf...Around here Waldorf is super expensive, but there I think it's around $5,000. If you look at videos about Waldorf, you'll see how they try to develop the whole child, teach them to love to learn and nurture their soul and body as well as their mind. It's really quite a lovely philosophy...and the children do end up catching up, and sometimes surpassing, publicly schooled kids as their education progresses. My DD adores nature, music and crafts, and I'd be very tempted if the school near us was less expensive. (Although anthroposophism is just...weird.)

[madteaparty]

Thanks so much everyone. I am so very happy I asked!

[regentrude]

 until the note came home saying that all children must bring lunches in wicker baskets with checked or plain cloth napkins covering the lunch only. 

 

 

ROTFL. That is SO totally Waldorf that it could be a parody.

[SeaConquest]

Anti-Semitism, racism, bullying issues, and poor academic outcomes... all for the low low price of 25K per year!

 

No thanks.

 

I briefly considered Waldorf when my oldest was little, but these two threads made me run screaming in the opposite direction from all things Steiner.

 

http://www.mothering.com/forum/285-waldorf/368640-safe-healthy-haven-waldorf-questioners-concerns-thread.html

http://www.mothering.com/forum/12-personal-growth/683104-life-after-waldorf-support-group.html

 

More:

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/11/is-this-grade-school-a-cult-and-do-parents-care/265620/

Edited July 1, 2016 by SeaConquest

[MinivanMom]

I think the basic cons of Waldorf have been well-covered.

 

I'll just add that in our area, the private Waldorf school is the only place you can go for half-day kindergarten. There are many parents here that will send their children to the school only for nursery and kindergarten and then switch them to public school or a different private school for 1st grade. As a result, our Waldorf school has multiple nursery and kindergarten classes, but only 1 class per grade in 1st-12th.

 

The pro is that for "only" $10k you can give your kid a very gentle, half-day kindergarten experience, and it's very easy to afterschool kindergarten academics when school lets out by lunchtime. The con is all that weird Waldorf stuff, but how weird depends on the school. The culture of individual Waldorf schools varies wildly, and you really have to visit yourself and speak to parents and teachers to get an idea of an individual school's level of involvement with anthroposophy.

[Pen]

I know the way the philosophy is implemented varies by school. DD goes to a true Montessori school now, on a farm, etc and i think it's great for the lower grades. I am supposed to put her in public school soon, but the school is kind of ugly and that bothers me. Methinks we are a bit spoiled from the Montessori one. Anyway, there is a Waldorf school nearby, so I am considering. I don't even believe in paying $ for kindergarten but here we are.

 

 

The Montessori one she's in is ending?  If not, I'd keep her there until you switch her to public school.

 

Waldorf for K is fine, but I'd tend to avoid trying to move her to a K and then again move her at first grade.

 

 

Try to look past the aesthetics of each school to what each will really be offering your child and how it will meet your child's needs, and how your child will fit with that school. Consider long term as well as the single year ahead.

 

There is no question that Waldorf has a lot of at least superficial beauty and charm. It can also be a very sweet and nurturing environment for preschool and K if the class is nice, the teacher is a good fit, and the child fits it well. I'd not keep most children in it past K. (My ds did 1.5 years of Waldorf K and 1st grade, before pulling him out to homeschool.)

[madteaparty]

The Montessori one she's in is ending? If not, I'd keep her there until you switch her to public school.

 

Waldorf for K is fine, but I'd tend to avoid trying to move her to a K and then again move her at first grade.

 

 

Try to look past the aesthetics of each school to what each will really be offering your child and how it will meet your child's needs, and how your child will fit with that school. Consider long term as well as the single year ahead.

 

There is no question that Waldorf has a lot of at least superficial beauty and charm. It can also be a very sweet and nurturing environment for preschool and K if the class is nice, the teacher is a good fit, and the child fits it well. I'd not keep most children in it past K. (My ds did 1.5 years of Waldorf K and 1st grade, before pulling him out to homeschool.)

We are moving. Otherwise I'd keep her there for early elem. There is a local Montessori I'm touring. Or I may just suck up my esthetic and outdoor playtime issues and put her in public K. Our house is practically a park and she can be outside all the time.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Anti-Semitism, racism, bullying issues, and poor academic outcomes... all for the low low price of 25K per year!

 

No thanks.

 

I briefly considered Waldorf when my oldest was little, but these two threads made me run screaming in the opposite direction from all things Steiner.

 

http://www.mothering.com/forum/285-waldorf/368640-safe-healthy-haven-waldorf-questioners-concerns-thread.html

http://www.mothering.com/forum/12-personal-growth/683104-life-after-waldorf-support-group.html

 

More:

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/11/is-this-grade-school-a-cult-and-do-parents-care/265620/

 

I read that stuff too.  Their practices are quite strange.

[eternalsummer]

I've seen a lot of stats that say Waldorf educated kids have surpassed the average kid by high school, or whatever (DD's school posts these things all the time), but I'm not sure if I've ever seen one that accounts for demographics.

 

The average kid is not, demographically, anything close to the average Waldorf kid.  I think if you took Waldorf demographics (largely white, middle/upper-middle, educated parents, etc.) and compared the two it would be a different story. 

 

But maybe most of those studies *do* account for the demographic differences, I dunno.

[Pen]

We are moving. Otherwise I'd keep her there for early elem. There is a local Montessori I'm touring. Or I may just suck up my esthetic and outdoor playtime issues and put her in public K. Our house is practically a park and she can be outside all the time.

 

 

What are you wanting her to get from kindergarten?  Social time? Academics? Art time? Outdoor playtime?

[madteaparty]

What are you wanting her to get from kindergarten? Social time? Academics? Art time? Outdoor playtime?

Daycare :) so I can focus on the other one and also my very part time work. Further, I'm not a crafty, project-y, hands on person and don't think I'm the best person to teach the K-circa 3rd grade years..I'm really good at afterschooling though.

[Pen]

Going from Montessori, if she liked that and fit in well with it, to Waldorf, is very likely to be frustrating to her, because while there may be a superficial similar aesthetic look, the underlying philosophies are pretty much opposites.  And to be put with a group of kids for just one year, thence to move on to yet another school is likely to undo any nurturing effect the Waldorf K would have because of the dislocations and changes.

[Pen]

Daycare :) so I can focus on the other one and also my very part time work. Further, I'm not a crafty, project-y, hands on person and don't think I'm the best person to teach the K-circa 3rd grade years..I'm really good at afterschooling though.

 

 

Well, ok, Waldorf is indeed crafty.  But usually only half-day as far as daycare goes--and often asking for a lot from the parents by way of participation. Do any of your choices provide a full day of "daycare?"

[madteaparty]

Well, ok, Waldorf is indeed crafty. But usually only half-day as far as daycare goes--and often asking for a lot from the parents by way of participation. Do any of your choices provide a full day of "daycare?"

Both the public school and the new Montessori I found. One thing having kids with a huge age difference...my oldest went to K practically in the projects. Must have been one of the worst schools in the area. This one, I drive around looking for the playground. Sigh.

[EKT]

I love so many things about the Waldorf approach, particularly the focus on educating the child's "head," "heart," and "hands" (i.e., educating the whole child). I love the emphasis on nature and on gentle rhythms and I really love all the early childhood stuff. (Heaven on Earth is still my favorite early childhood parenting guidebook. It is pretty Waldorf-y, yet I would recommend it to any parent.) Finally, I'm a sucker for the aesthetic beauty of Waldorf materials! (Who can resist all the natural wood and beeswax and watercolored play silks?!) It's gorgeous and I love the idea of very young children spending their days in that sort of dreamy, gentle environment. (Indeed, I somewhat try to recreate that Waldorf aesthetic through the way I decorate and arrange my own home and homeschool.)

 

THAT SAID, I bought a packaged Waldorf homeschool curriculum for kindergarten (back at the very beginning of my homeschool journey) and the approach, in practice, was just not a good fit for my family. For instance, I could not have delayed my girls' reading if I tried! They both were early/avid readers and the thought of delaying their reading until age 7 was absurd (my 6 year old currently reads fat chapter books). (Interestingly, Waldorf philosophy suggests that kids are ready to read when they reach the "change of teeth" and both my girls starting losing their baby teeth at age 4-and-a-half, so maybe there's something to that?! lol.) The other thing I found absurd was the strict rules for seemingly everything. For instance, with the art projects in my Waldorf curriculum, one lesson was adamant that I introduce yellow--AND ONLY YELLOW!--paint first, then proceed through the other colors in an orderly fashion. But my child was sitting there like, "Mama, why can't I use red, too?" And I was just like, "I have no idea. This is ridiculous." That's pretty much when I jumped ship and went running in a more classical direction, lol.

 

In the end, I'm not "against" the Waldorf approach at all; I have friends whose children currently attend a beautiful Waldorf school and the children are thriving. These kids are wonderful and very smart and so very kind. They love their school and are having a great experience. For us, Waldorf was not a good fit (at all!) academically, but I can see it working spectacularly well for a certain type of child. I'm glad I learned the basics about the philosophy on my parenting/homeschooling journey and I am happy to have cherry-picked ideas I love along the way. (I adopted a handful of practices and ideas that suit me; all the stuff that was too weird for me, I just left behind.) My two cents: It's worth checking out the school to see if their version of Waldorf suits you and your family. But I'm guessing that unless you have money to burn, it's probably not "worth it" financially. (Personally, I think the tuition would serve you better if placed in a college fund.) You can easily do Waldorf-y stuff at home if you want to supplement your child's school experience. Good luck; it's so hard to decide this stuff!

[Pen]

Both the public school and the new Montessori I found. One thing having kids with a huge age difference...my oldest went to K practically in the projects. Must have been one of the worst schools in the area. This one, I drive around looking for the playground. Sigh.

 

 

I suggest you choose between the public school and the Montessori.  If you are planning to homeschool her after a few years, the approach of Montessori with "contracts" between teacher and student might be a helpful intro.  If she is going to be in public eventually, you might want to start her there to avoid numerous changes.

[Farrar]

I'm pretty anti-Waldorf. Pretty toys, terrible pedogagy.

 

The above responses have focused on the fringe elements of Waldorf - which, yeah, can be weird. The racism in the underlying philosophy, the rigidity, the no screens policies...

 

But I think even if you took all that out, it's still rotten. It *sounds* lovely. Kids making their own textbooks, from the bookbinding to the writing to the illustration. But go into the Waldorf class and look at the books. They're all the same. Every book with the same illustrations, the same text, with only small variations.

 

Waldorf sells itself as being all about imagination and whimsy, small motor skills and handicrafts, nature and pretty fairies. In reality, it's all about conformity. You think public schools can lean toward one size fits all? They've got nothing on Waldorf.

Edited July 2, 2016 by Farrar

[madteaparty]

I suggest you choose between the public school and the Montessori. If you are planning to homeschool her after a few years, the approach of Montessori with "contracts" between teacher and student might be a helpful intro. If she is going to be in public eventually, you might want to start her there to avoid numerous changes.

I will offer to HS her 4th grade onwards. Thanks so much for your posts on this, very insightful.

[luuknam]

And people complain about college tuition??? This is nuts.

 

We briefly looked into a Reggio Emilia school that charges something like the mentioned $23k per year for elementary (incl. K), because the head of our (not-fancy-at-all) daycare suggested it for our youngest. We're in WNY, so we're not in a HCOL area or a 'rich' area or w/e. From what I gathered, most of the kids get some sort of discount. I found some info on the site they use to determine how much financial aid kids should get, and figured out that if you make $62k or less per year (for a family of 4), the site they use to determine financial aid recommends a free ride. I don't know how closely they follow those recommendations, and I'm sure that it's harder to get into the school the more financial aid you need (they can't give everyone a free ride, obviously), a price tag of $23k doesn't mean everybody pays $23k. And if you make $200k in our pretty normal COL area, then you can afford to pay $23k of tuition (I think you can tax deduct tuition?).

 

The Reggio Emilia approach looked interesting (OP, you could see if there's a school like that near you too), but I'd planned on homeschooling and school is not homeschool, and because they have an earlier cut-off, so my 5.5yo would be going into K next year by their standards (instead of 1st grade by public school standards - kid just scored 81st percentile overall on his end-of-1st-grade assessment, so is academically ready to enter 2nd, not K - though I could live with elite private school 1st, but they said their cut-off was strict, I'm guessing because they like to brag that most of their students are at least one grade ahead by the end of elementary school, and many more than one grade ahead, which is easier to accomplish if you use and enforce an earlier cut-off).

[Farrar]

Reggio Emilia is an awesome philosophy. I haven't seen that many schools implementing it though.

 

23k for private school doesn't even make me bat an eye around here. And, honestly, having been on the other side of it working in a private school... it's not like they're making money. If you're in a high cola area with high rents and property values, unless your school is subsidized by a religious institution or a hefty, healthy endowment, or bought their space decades ago, then it's just the cost of business. Most people don't pay that price tag. At many of these schools, even the people you'd consider upper middle class are getting a discount. It's often only the truly wealthy footing that much of the price.

[Serenade]

These kids are wonderful and very smart and so very kind. 

 

 

This is what has impressed me about the Waldorf kids that I have met.  They are very kind and accepting of others.  And I really loved seeing a group of teen boys who could talk about things and were interested in things other than electronics.  

 

If I had it to do over again, and I could find the money, I would send my older son to Waldorf.   Funny thing, when I was talking with my pediatrician about my son, he didn't think Waldorf would be a good fit for my family due to the granola factor.  (I am very un-granola.)  However, too late I learned that the Waldorf approach probably would have benefitted my older son.  He is very bright and tested in the top percentiles when he was young, but his lack of fine motor skills has actually kept him from achieving many things.  He doesn't "do" stuff.  He can read about things and talk about things and think deep thoughts, but he doesn't actually do things because using his hands to build, create and make is just too much of an effort for him.  I think the Waldorf approach with knitting/crocheting etc before reading would have really benefitted my kid -- just to be in an environment where that was the norm.  I confess, when he was young and we tried to do projects, I always gave up because it was such a chore with him.  I think if he had been around other children where this was encouraged, he would have ended up a more well-rounded person.  Oh well.  Hindsight is 20-20.

Edited July 3, 2016 by Serenade

[eternalsummer]

In many Waldorf schools, he would not just have learned to knit and needle felt before reading, he would not have been encouraged (and in some cases not allowed) to read before he was able to knit.  

 

So for my DS, they were unwilling to allow him to progress in reading or math until he learned to needle felt correctly.  He was discouraged from reading at his level because he had a handwriting delay.  I thought it was kind of crazy, tbh, and it didn't work to improve his handwriting at all.

[momma2three]

She bought him a planet box lunch box and he was very excited to use it until the note came home saying that all children must bring lunches in wicker baskets with checked or plain cloth napkins covering the lunch only. 

 

Waldorf is really into materials... little kids are only allowed to touch "warm" materials, like wood and silk.  Metal is a "cold" material that drains the lifeblood out of them.

 

There's similar stuff about colors, too... no black, ever.

[Renai]

We briefly looked into a Reggio Emilia school that charges something like the mentioned $23k per year for elementary (incl. K), because the head of our (not-fancy-at-all) daycare suggested it for our youngest. We're in WNY, so we're not in a HCOL area or a 'rich' area or w/e. From what I gathered, most of the kids get some sort of discount. I found some info on the site they use to determine how much financial aid kids should get, and figured out that if you make $62k or less per year (for a family of 4), the site they use to determine financial aid recommends a free ride. I don't know how closely they follow those recommendations, and I'm sure that it's harder to get into the school the more financial aid you need (they can't give everyone a free ride, obviously), a price tag of $23k doesn't mean everybody pays $23k. And if you make $200k in our pretty normal COL area, then you can afford to pay $23k of tuition (I think you can tax deduct tuition?).

 

The Reggio Emilia approach looked interesting (OP, you could see if there's a school like that near you too), but I'd planned on homeschooling and school is not homeschool, and because they have an earlier cut-off, so my 5.5yo would be going into K next year by their standards (instead of 1st grade by public school standards - kid just scored 81st percentile overall on his end-of-1st-grade assessment, so is academically ready to enter 2nd, not K - though I could live with elite private school 1st, but they said their cut-off was strict, I'm guessing because they like to brag that most of their students are at least one grade ahead by the end of elementary school, and many more than one grade ahead, which is easier to accomplish if you use and enforce an earlier cut-off).

 

 

Reggio Emilia is an awesome philosophy. I haven't seen that many schools implementing it though.

 

23k for private school doesn't even make me bat an eye around here. And, honestly, having been on the other side of it working in a private school... it's not like they're making money. If you're in a high cola area with high rents and property values, unless your school is subsidized by a religious institution or a hefty, healthy endowment, or bought their space decades ago, then it's just the cost of business. Most people don't pay that price tag. At many of these schools, even the people you'd consider upper middle class are getting a discount. It's often only the truly wealthy footing that much of the price.

 

I love Reggio. I was trained in the method (with the person who first brought it to our state), and it is very flexible and can be individualized easily. There are few Reggio schools in my city, but it is the method the state public prek officially endorses (I worked both private and state as a teacher). Nowhere near 23K tuition for prek here for private, though.

[Sahamamama]

The one we looked at was $23k for kindergarten. Kids seems happy there but parents do after school academics. Many parents seem to be deciding year by year. The school is a preschool-12th with 5 batch of students graduated and in college. The location is in a relatively affluent area.

 

It would have to be, wouldn't it?

 

[Arcadia]

It would have to be, wouldn't it?

 

The median family income for the city it is in and the city it borders is $154k and $200k.

 

This 2011 news article touch on the school not using technology during school time for learning.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/11/10/students-learn-unplugged-at-los-altos-school/

[Renai]

The median family income for the city it is in and the city it borders is $154k and $200k.

 

This 2011 news article touch on the school not using technology during school time for learning.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/11/10/students-learn-unplugged-at-los-altos-school/

 

I noticed a kid in the picture writing with their left hand. I would not have noticed that without this thread.  :laugh:

[fralala]

 

The teacher was very sweet but was too invested in the Waldorf philosophy to see what was best for an individual child. I think there were some weird dynamics in the classroom. The other kids had been together before DD started and she was always kind of an outsider. I think the teacher's adherence to the Waldorf ideas kept her from trying to better integrate DD into the classroom. I asked numerous times how DD was getting along with the other kids in class and was always told that she was playing with everyone. I came to find out that wasn't true. 

 

This rang quite true to me. My sister attended a Waldorf school for 2 years and "weird dynamics in the classroom" describes it perfectly. The same kids and the same teacher stay together from K-8. While this initially sounded good to me (I am, after all, a homeschooler and believe that relationships matter and learning happens best when strong relationships between students and teacher are nurtured), it created an environment in which anyone who wasn't there from the beginning (and committed to continuing on) was regarded as an outsider. And I just reread what you wrote, and you used that exact term: outsider.

[SeaConquest]

Waldorf is really into materials... little kids are only allowed to touch "warm" materials, like wood and silk.  Metal is a "cold" material that drains the lifeblood out of them.

 

There's similar stuff about colors, too... no black, ever.

 

"Now submerge yourself in black; you are completely surrounded by black--in this black darkness a physical being can do nothing. Life is driven out of the plant when it becomes carbon. Black shows itself alien to life, hostile to life; when plants are carbonized they turn black. Life, then can do nothing in blackness. And the soul? Our soul life deserts us when this awful blackness is within us. Black represents the spiritual image of the lifeless."

 

Rudolf Steiner, Color

 

I'm sure this is a really welcoming environment for people of color. </sarcasm>

Edited July 4, 2016 by SeaConquest

[Pen]

This is what has impressed me about the Waldorf kids that I have met.  They are very kind and accepting of others.  And I really loved seeing a group of teen boys who could talk about things and were interested in things other than electronics.  

 

If I had it to do over again, and I could find the money, I would send my older son to Waldorf.   Funny thing, when I was talking with my pediatrician about my son, he didn't think Waldorf would be a good fit for my family due to the granola factor.  (I am very un-granola.)  However, too late I learned that the Waldorf approach probably would have benefitted my older son.  He is very bright and tested in the top percentiles when he was young, but his lack of fine motor skills has actually kept him from achieving many things.  He doesn't "do" stuff.  He can read about things and talk about things and think deep thoughts, but he doesn't actually do things because using his hands to build, create and make is just too much of an effort for him.  I think the Waldorf approach with knitting/crocheting etc before reading would have really benefitted my kid -- just to be in an environment where that was the norm.  I confess, when he was young and we tried to do projects, I always gave up because it was such a chore with him.  I think if he had been around other children where this was encouraged, he would have ended up a more well-rounded person.  Oh well.  Hindsight is 20-20.

 

 

Hindsight seems to be 20-20 perhaps, and may be 20-20 truly with regard to the problems with the route you did choose, but you cannot really know what would have happened with a route you did *not* choose.

 

Maybe he would have ended up more well-rounded. Or maybe he would have ended up frustrated and unhappy due to not being allowed to or at least not being approved of for reading, and feeling less-than because he would have trouble with the handwork aspects of Waldorf.  ...sort of like a non-athletic kid in a school that approves of jocks, and denigrates academic kids as "nerds".

 

From what I saw of Waldorf I would not be down on yourself about not sending him--I'd guess that the chances that it would have actually helped him would be very small. It seemed a better fit for those kids who were interested in and good at crafty type things and not so interested in things like reading or deep thinking. If he'd been found to be having motor skills trouble you would probably have found yourself blamed for it due to some failure in your home, and a suggestion that he be taken to an anthroposophic physician, therapeutic eurythmy teacher, or other sort of Waldorf approved "healer" who could work with him privately for yet more $$$--not that a Waldorf teacher would have solved his motor skills situation.

 

I'd suggest considering what he could do *now.* 

[Pen]

 

"Now submerge yourself in black; you are completely surrounded by black--in this black darkness a physical being can do nothing. Life is driven out of the plant when it becomes carbon. Black shows itself alien to life, hostile to life; when plants are carbonized they turn black. Life, then can do nothing in blackness. And the soul? Our soul life deserts us when this awful blackness is within us. Black represents the spiritual image of the lifeless."

 

Rudolf Steiner, Color

 

I'm sure this is a really welcoming environment for people of color. </sarcasm>

 

 

 

I think it tends to be racist and anti-semitic, etc. with weird sort of Wagnerian ideas about race. But I don't think this quote about black as a color is especially what I'd choose as to showing the racist and anti-semitic side of it. I'd more tend to try to find one where Steiner wrote that he considered all other races inferior to ?European whites ?Germans and Scandinavians ? Aryans ? and that all other races should have died out long ago, but for some accident that allowed the inferior ones to still be around.  ... or also for religion, something depicting the view with two evils (Ahriman and Lucifer) on either side of the good Christ in the middle. or maybe that it is the job of Waldorf teachers to help lesser race children so that in their next incarnation they can come back as Aryans or whatever it is that he saw as the good properly evolved type of person. 

[nature girl]

I think it tends to be racist and anti-semitic, etc. with weird sort of Wagnerian ideas about race. But I don't think this quote about black as a color is especially what I'd choose as to showing the racist and anti-semitic side of it. I'd more tend to try to find one where Steiner wrote that he considered all other races inferior to ?European whites ?Germans and Scandinavians ? Aryans ? and that all other races should have died out long ago, but for some accident that allowed the inferior ones to still be around.  ... or also for religion, something depicting the view with two evils (Ahriman and Lucifer) on either side of the good Christ in the middle. or maybe that it is the job of Waldorf teachers to help lesser race children so that in their next incarnation they can come back as Aryans or whatever it is that he saw as the good properly evolved type of person. 

 

I wrote earlier that my sister has been extremely happy with my niece's Waldorf education...My BIL is Jewish. Yes, Steiner was racist and antisemitic, but that was back in the time racism and antisemitism was widespread. I really don't think you'd find that in (the vast majority of) the schools today.

[Farrar]

But the no black crayons thing absolutely persists in Waldorf circles today. And I think it's absolutely still racist in that it's sending a message that "black is bad" which can be easily read as racist by children and it precludes children from drawing many people of color with the correct hair tones. I get what they're going for and that it's not intentionally racist any more but I think the effects are still racist.

[Ausmumof3]

This is what has impressed me about the Waldorf kids that I have met. They are very kind and accepting of others. And I really loved seeing a group of teen boys who could talk about things and were interested in things other than electronics.

 

If I had it to do over again, and I could find the money, I would send my older son to Waldorf. Funny thing, when I was talking with my pediatrician about my son, he didn't think Waldorf would be a good fit for my family due to the granola factor. (I am very un-granola.) However, too late I learned that the Waldorf approach probably would have benefitted my older son. He is very bright and tested in the top percentiles when he was young, but his lack of fine motor skills has actually kept him from achieving many things. He doesn't "do" stuff. He can read about things and talk about things and think deep thoughts, but he doesn't actually do things because using his hands to build, create and make is just too much of an effort for him. I think the Waldorf approach with knitting/crocheting etc before reading would have really benefitted my kid -- just to be in an environment where that was the norm. I confess, when he was young and we tried to do projects, I always gave up because it was such a chore with him. I think if he had been around other children where this was encouraged, he would have ended up a more well-rounded person. Oh well. Hindsight is 20-20.

This was me as a child and I see a lot of it in dd. I really want to work on it but she's very resistant to being corrected and doesn't have to patience to work with a lot of fine motor stuff.

 

But honestly if Id been in a school where crafts etc were the focus I would have a)gone insane and b) developed a major inferiority complex because I would never have produced as well as other kids and the things I was good at wouldn't have been valued at all.

[Pen]

I wrote earlier that my sister has been extremely happy with my niece's Waldorf education...My BIL is Jewish. Yes, Steiner was racist and antisemitic, but that was back in the time racism and antisemitism was widespread. I really don't think you'd find that in (the vast majority of) the schools today.

 

I hope that your niece really did have a wonderful Waldorf that truly accepted her as a part Jewish girl. But whether what you report is true for the "vast majority" of schools, I strongly doubt, especially since while there are some Waldorfs in Israel, I think there are more opening in Islamic countries and Asia, which are unlikely to be pro-Jewish. And how widespread racism and antisemitism are may be more still  than you realize--not something of the past that is now all behind us.

 

I accept that your niece's school was different than ours. But that may depend on the location of the school, the particular school, and the particular teacher(s) a particular family would encounter.

 

Ask them how their school chose a child to play Santa Lucia if they did and whether that child was Jewish proportional to the number of Jewish children in the school, and what about other parts in school plays?  Ask if the holidays like Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur  got time off from school, or, on the contrary, as with our school, had required meetings scheduled after sundown on holy days, making it impossible for an observant Jewish family to participate, and thus marking them as "other." 

 

It also may be that someone known or thought to be Jewish or part Jewish is not going to hear the comments that someone who isn't might hear. What color and ethnic look do the dolls used at the school your niece went to look like? At ours they were vaguely Germanic volk looking, even though they had no eyes or mouths. The "good" characters in the marionette plays the teachers put on were blonde, and the "evil" ones were darker haired.  Each classroom had a basically Christian art reproduction on the wall, such as a Madonna, or St. George and the Dragon, or St. Christopher. Subtle but pervasive Christian symbolism in terms of the kids day to day experience...with a few big gestures on special occasions that the public at large was more likely to see, that went the other way (but still seemed like a Christian imitation of something Jewish, not the real thing)--such as latkes served at the Christmas time holiday festival.

 

The religion founded by Steiner that goes with Anthroposophy and thus Waldorf is called Christian Community. At our school that was what the "best"  and "in" families seemed to be, particularly the families of the core group of teachers who ran the school.