ACORN...is anyone else concerned about this group....

[TravelingChris]

If people are disenfranchised by having picture ID, they are disenfranchised from modern life and financial transactions. You need a picture ID to cash checks, pick up wired money, etc, etc. I have lived in a number of states and the cost of photo ID was always very low and lasted for four years. If the community organizers groups are so worried about disenfranchisement, why not take people to the DMV or wherever and help them get their IDs? Oh but then you can't have Snow White and Daffy Duck voting (names attempted to be registered in Ohio in 2004).

 

I was aware of ACORN back in the early 80s when I went to school in Chicago. There was concern about mismanagement of funds way back then. I didn't know then it was a national group and I didn't hear of it again until 2000, I think, in relation to voter fraud.

[jplain]

All the more reason to make it a national requirement.

If you don't ask voters to verify that they are, in fact, registered voters, then how secure can ANY election be?

 

astrid

Agreed.

 

I also understand the problem of some groups of people not having legal ID for lack of money or transportation. I tend to lean towards the view that "If you want to vote, you'll need to get yourself some ID." Then we'd need to figure out how to ensure that everyone who wants to vote can obtain proper IDs, by subsidizing them, creating DMV-mobiles, etc.

 

I'm truly baffled by the fact that states have different regulations regarding ID requirements for voting. How can it be right for different states to enforce different rules for a national election?

Edited October 9, 2008 by jplain

[ChristusG]

LOL, I agree with Bev....of course Obama is going to post that on his very own campaign site. I would not expect anything else. I hate politics....it is all a bunch of lies that the public has to waste their time trying to decipher.

[Jennifer in NH]

It is really too bad that some news program like 60 minutes or dateline would not go undercover with hidden cameras and find out whether or not ACORN does actually train their people to commit fraud or if it is just overly zealous people taking it on themselves.

without that, I cannot see how any investigation could get to the bottom of it either way.

[Kelli in TN]

. If the community organizers groups are so worried about disenfranchisement, why not take people to the DMV or wherever and help them get their IDs? Oh but then you can't have Snow White and Daffy Duck voting (names attempted to be registered in Ohio in 2004).

 

.

 

 

Well, there's a thought. Gosh, maybe that would work.

 

Christina, you should be a community organizer!:001_smile:

[Kelli in TN]

Agreed.

 

I also understand the problem of some groups of people not having legal ID for lack of money or transportation. I tend to lean towards the view that "If you want to vote, you'll need to get yourself some ID." Then we'd need to figure out how to ensure that everyone who wants to vote can obtain proper IDs, by subsidizing them, creating DMV-mobiles, etc.

?

 

It just doesn't seem that complicated, does it?

[Kelli in TN]

I hate politics....it is all a bunch of lies that the public has to waste their time trying to decipher.

 

I am kind of feeling that way too.

[Soph the vet]

No. Different states have different laws.

Thanks for the correction. Here is a map from the ACLU website that was helpful regarding convicted felons voting:

http://www.aclu.org/votingrights/exoffenders/statelegispolicy2007.html#text

 

There is a petition process they must go through and it only two states let them vote while incarcerated from what I gathered.

[GreenKitty]

May have already been posted

 

Obama's ties to ACORN

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhQAHKxuR1Q

 

More allegations of ACORN not paying workers and voter registration irregularities

 

[ma23peas]

If it was on the web, it can be accessed. They just have to work a bit harder.

 

 

But, should we have to work harder..and WHY has it just now been pulled when other articles in that same issue have not? I do not like this at all! Thanks to the poster who put in the links, let's see how long those last.

 

Tara

[ma23peas]

In CT, we take almost any form of ID. Drivers license, AARP card, utility bill or other piece of mail.... it's imperative, IMHO, to verify that a voter IS a resident of that town and IS a registered voter, meeting all the criteria for a registered voter (citizen, of age, etc.)

 

astrid

 

 

How in the world do you take ID on ABSENTEE BALLOTS!!! Don't you realize this will be the bulk of where these nuts vote?

 

Tara

[ma23peas]

Asking sincerely...having a national ID would be socialistic, wouldn't it? It sounds like you're against socialism, but you say you want a national ID--can you explain, please?

 

Chelle

 

Chelle,

 

We have passports, we have social security cards, they are OUR identification why would putting a picture on our social security cards be different than already having a number attached to us? We've been there.

 

Tara

[TN Mama]

I don't have to have ID in TN.

 

ETA: We have to show our signature to vote.

 

I've always had to show my ID - also in TN. Now, having said that - I have no idea what the laws are. :)

[TN Mama]

The argument against voter ID laws, particularly photo ID laws, is that the poor, elderly, and minorities are going to be disproportionately affected, because they're more likely not to have proper ID (i.e. drivers licenses). I remember thinking in MA, though, how very easy it would have been for me to vote as someone else, so I'm not sure what to think. At any rate, though, in many states there is nothing improper about not asking for ID and it would, in fact, be illegal for a poll worker to turn someone away for not having one.

 

Do all states offer a photo ID? I know here (TN) you can get a photo id that looks almost exactly like a driver's license. IMO, it is responsible to have a photo ID whether or not you drive.

[Liberty]

I am so disturbed by all of this--it's way too third-worldish to be America, imo.

[ma23peas]

I've always had to show my ID - also in TN. Now, having said that - I have no idea what the laws are. :)

 

 

 

I've never had to show my ID in Tennessee (Shelby County) voted there for 5 years, never showed my ID in Washington...3 years...Georgia did require my ID on 2 of the 5 years I lived there...but that's not the issue...when you send an absentee ballot in, even if they check a signature, when you're going through 60,000 of these, will you really "CHECK" a signature? The signature does not belong to the 'actual' person in the first place...so sure, it's the same signature of the nut who signed up as Tony Romo in Nevada..come on folks 11,000 votes are fraudulent?? How many did they NOT catch? What about the ones that are real voters (homeless, students) that were sought out so at least they could have a 'real voter' but were PAID to vote for Obama, I have yet to hear one case of anyone being 'PAID' to vote for McCain!! I just love where that 800k is being used.

 

This is HUGE guys, I agree with the other poster that this will take over the election and there will be legitimate proof for an illegal vote...and there is no way to cut ties with Obama...because the hackers know how to find the cached materials...but the Americans do not know. Is anyone pointing out that ALL these 'illegal' voters are casting a vote for Obama? And specifically for a group that claims to get voters registered, why the heck aren't they in Alabama, Connectictut, Georgia, Mississippi, Oklahoma or the other 34 states that have unregistered voters? ... Instead of focusing on the 11 swing states.

 

Tara

[Bev in B'ville]

I've never had to show my ID in Tennessee (Shelby County) voted there for 5 years, never showed my ID in Washington...3 years...Georgia did require my ID on 2 of the 5 years I lived there...but that's not the issue...when you send an absentee ballot in, even if they check a signature, when you're going through 60,000 of these, will you really "CHECK" a signature? The signature does not belong to the 'actual' person in the first place...so sure, it's the same signature of the nut who signed up as Tony Romo in Nevada..come on folks 11,000 votes are fraudulent?? How many did they NOT catch? What about the ones that are real voters (homeless, students) that were sought out so at least they could have a 'real voter' but were PAID to vote for Obama, I have yet to hear one case of anyone being 'PAID' to vote for McCain!! I just love where that 800k is being used.

 

This is HUGE guys, I agree with the other poster that this will take over the election and there will be legitimate proof for an illegal vote...and there is no way to cut ties with Obama...because the hackers know how to find the cached materials...but the Americans do not know. Is anyone pointing out that ALL these 'illegal' voters are casting a vote for Obama? And specifically for a group that claims to get voters registered, why the heck aren't they in Alabama, Connectictut, Georgia, Mississippi, Oklahoma or the other 34 states that have unregistered voters? ... Instead of focusing on the 11 swing states.

 

Tara

 

:iagree:A 19 yo college student will be testifying before authorities this morning that ACORN members kept pestering him to register to vote even though he told them he was already registered to vote. They told him to register again. He ended up with 72 voter registrations and early votes in his name. I wonder if he had told them he was a McCain supporter if they would have pestered him?

[homeschool2boys]

:iagree:A 19 yo college student will be testifying before authorities this morning that ACORN members kept pestering him to register to vote even though he told them he was already registered to vote. They told him to register again. He ended up with 72 voter registrations and early votes in his name. I wonder if he had told them he was a McCain supporter if they would have pestered him?

 

I wonder will my vote even count for anything? I live in one of those states where ACORN has been working to steal the election for Obama, and now I wonder if my vote will even count because who can compete with people getting 72 votes per person.

 

I am very angry about this, I hope they get to the bottom of this and not let them steal this election. I also am very angry at Obama. I will be sure to vote against him.

[Bev in B'ville]

I wonder will my vote even count for anything? I live in one of those states where ACORN has been working to steal the election for Obama, and now I wonder if my vote will even count because who can compete with people getting 72 votes per person.

 

I am very angry about this, I hope they get to the bottom of this and not let them steal this election. I also am very angry at Obama. I will be sure to vote against him.

 

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:I don't live in a contested state, but I am still mad about this. We're suppose to be above this sort of thing. We monitor OTHER nations during elections for just this sort of abuse and then make a big deal out of it when those countries leaders try to steal an election. I'm very disappointed that our nation has fallen this far.

[Tammyla]

I keep hoping more light will be placed on them. They are all over my state. I do worry about our election results and how they will be viewed not only by us but other countries.:confused:

[nmoira]

I don't know how much will come of the ACORN investigation -- at the very least it sounds like individual workers have been padding their registration numbers in a not very clever way-- but Republicans for years have been pressuring state officials to investigate and prosecute voter fraud cases. U.S. Attorneys in the Justice Department are also supposed to have this as a high priority. Problem is, they have been able to successfully prosecute few examples.

 

For those worried about the integrity of the election, were you up in arms four years ago? Eight Years ago? Are you concerned about the potential for fraud with paperless (and receiptless) electronic voting? Major elections overhaul is needed. This system is insane. What about illegal purges of voter rolls? What about automated messages targeting largely minority areas telling them the polls have moved?

 

I scrutineered a number of elections in Canada before moving to the US. Every single vote was counted by hand (once by each poll worker). Every one. Scrutineers from all three major parties were typically at each voting station (as they had been during polling hours) and had the opportunity to examine each ballot as it was counted. Early ballots are handled in a similar manner.

[astrid]

In Indianapolis, there are more registered voters than there are residents in Indianapolis!

 

Read these two sources:

 

Actual number of residents: 632,896

 

Number of registered voters: 677,401

 

"In the county, 677,401 voters were registered as of Monday evening; that number was expected to continue growing as last-minute registrations are entered into the system. In 2004, the county had 602,918 registered voters."

 

If these sources are accurate in comparing the same county and same residents, then this is a problem! BTW, I'm not tying this to ACORN, but this could be voter fraud.

 

I agree with Astrid that voters should be given an ID card, although I would like those cards to be issued by the states, not nationally. I think most states allow for driver's licenses to serve as ID cards; if someone doesn't drive or doesn't have the money to get an ID card, I think in those cases the state could provide a cheap, simple alternative.

 

That's why here in CT we accept AARP cards, delivered mail with name and address, almost anything that can be dug out of ones' purse. And if they can't produce ID, we have a form that they can sign, swearing that they are who they say they are. In CT, around election time, the Secretary of State does radio and TV ads reminding folks to bring their ID to the polls.

 

There's no easy solution, that's for sure.

astrid

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

I'm going to take Obama's campaign's word for his non-involvement. :lol: I am quite sure that if this were McCain's campaign being accused of this' date=' they, too, would dispute the allegations on his campaign website. Would you take his campaign's website's plea of innocence seriously? (I hope not.) [/quote']

 

I would hope that he would provide links (scroll down on the campaign page that was linked) that would back up my words. I might take a look at what the Chicago Sun-Times and the Wall Street Journal had to say about it.

 

 

I would still like to see ACORN investigated properly and the only way to do that is to shed a big spotlight on it (meaning the main stream media).

 

 

 

Let's back the bus up for a minute, though, and pretend he doesn't have anything to do with this organizaiton. This self-proclaimed socialistic militant group's office was raided yesterday in Nevada. They absolutely, fradulently, knowingly were trying to stack the deck in Obama's favor in a battleground state.

 

I'm gonna need links. THEY say they are militant? And I will give you that voter and social justice organizations that try to stand for low-income citizens do get labeled socialistic, and I will take your word for it that they have called themselves socialists.

 

Here's what Acorn had to say about what they did. Now, I'm not saying I know what went on. But it's a good thing to look at what the person (in Sen. Obama's case) and the organization (in Acorn's case) have to say to defend themselves. Otherwise, we say "Guilty until you can prove innocence!" and ANYone can smear you.

 

 

I am NOT against people voting who should be voting. But, these people should also know who's running and the issues surrounding the election, not just dragged out from under their bridge, registered and told who to vote for.

 

If we have enough people living under a bridge to influence an election, either figuratively or literally, who have to be dragged out and told how to vote, we have a much bigger problem than overzealous young voter registration workers.

 

And why aren't voter drive folks volunteers? I can think of no better way to ensure voter fraud than to PAY people for registering others, paying by the piece or giving bonuses for more registrations? Crazy. I'm not very smart about these sorts of things, but even I can figure that out. :glare:

 

Why not arrange something to this effect at the voter sites? Yes, it would cost money to set up initially. Yes, it would inconvenience people, but if they have to wait in a line to vote anyway, why not kill two birds with one stone? With a national registry, this would prevent duplicate identities and, therefore, duplicate votes. I, obviously, need more coffee as I flesh out this idea, and I'm sure there are holes in it somewhere which someone will point out. It's a starting point though.

 

National biometric ID is nothing I ever thought I'd see proposed by conservative people. Not sure what the solution is, and I kinda think we're going in that direction. But it does seem an odd thing to contemplate.

[Jean too]

Obama is also a current contributor to ACORN, to the tune of $800,000.

 

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/election/s_584284.html

 

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?secid=1501&status=article&id=308358130652174&secure=1&show=1&rss=1

 

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/10/09/what-does-obama-know-about-acorn-fraud/

 

 

 

More about Obama's association with ACORN here:http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NDZiMjkwMDczZWI5ODdjOWYxZTIzZGIyNzEyMjE0ODI=

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZjRjYzE0YmQxNzU4MDJjYWE5MjIzMTMxMmNhZWQ1MTA=

 

 

Oh, and no worries, they are a non-partisan group, yeah right.

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=H8Ep1tkNOUU

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=625jUE78zjE&feature=related

Edited October 9, 2008 by Jean too

[Jenny in Atl]

I don't know how much will come of the ACORN investigation -- at the very least it sounds like individual workers have been padding their registration numbers in a not very clever way-- but Republicans for years have been pressuring state officials to investigate and prosecute voter fraud cases. U.S. Attorneys in the Justice Department are also supposed to have this as a high priority. Problem is, they have been able to successfully prosecute few examples.

 

For those worried about the integrity of the election, were you up in arms four years ago? Eight Years ago? Are you concerned about the potential for fraud with paperless (and receiptless) electronic voting? Major elections overhaul is needed. This system is insane. What about illegal purges of voter rolls? What about automated messages targeting largely minority areas telling them the polls have moved?

 

I scrutineered a number of elections in Canada before moving to the US. Every single vote was counted by hand (once by each poll worker). Every one. Scrutineers from all three major parties were typically at each voting station (as they had been during polling hours) and had the opportunity to examine each ballot as it was counted. Early ballots are handled in a similar manner.

 

More humor for ya, Moria... How long have groups like Acorn been around? At least since the 60's and some date back even farther. And how many "socialist" presidents have we had (besides W) while these folks have run around trying to finding every poor person, convicted felon, some of the dead, and any drunk/druggies to drag to the poles...

 

Hummm, I can't think of a single one. In fact we have had five republicans and only democrats (Clinton being on of the most conservative one in recent history). Both parties are dirty when it comes to things like Acorn. The Republicans are no less innocent of having bag men and playing very nasty tricks. If one should be disgusted, it should be that we keep putting up with it, maybe because most only care about is having their party win.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Obama is also a current contributor to ACORN, to the tune of $800,000.

 

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/election/s_584284.html

 

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?secid=1501&status=article&id=308358130652174&secure=1&show=1&rss=1

 

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/10/09/what-does-obama-know-about-acorn-fraud/

 

 

 

More about Obama's association with ACORN here:http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NDZiMjkwMDczZWI5ODdjOWYxZTIzZGIyNzEyMjE0ODI=

 

Contributer? It says in the first article (and sorry, I didn't read the blog or the opinion writer's piece) that they paid an organization who says one of their client's is ACORN $800K to do a specific canvas for the campaign in OH.

 

Transparency in spending is not something I worry much about from this campaign. According to OpenSecrets, here's his record of disclosure. 92% full disclosure. Here's Sen. McCain's. 87% full disclosure. It appears to me that both campaigns are doing a good job keeping up with finance reports.

[Bev in B'ville]

Both parties are dirty when it comes to things like Acorn. The Republicans are no less innocent of having bag men and playing very nasty tricks. If one should be disgusted, it should be that we keep putting up with it, maybe because most only care about is having their party win.

 

 

Name one conservative group, just one, who is tied to McCain's campaign that uses convicted felons to pressure people into registering to vote more than once and registering false identities.

 

Also, Nevada's Secretary of State, upon further investigation, has found that many of those convicted felons were convicted for identify fraud. Now they have people's names and social security numbers as well. Wonderful!

 

nMoira, you asked above if I was just as mad at the system back in 2000. Since you didn't know me back then and assuming you're asking a sincere question to which you want to know the answer I will answer it. Yes, I was mad. Mad at the whole "chets" controversy. Mad at attempts to manipulate the election, much like they are doing now. I was also mad that people were trying to change our election laws (number of actual votes vs. the electoral system) after the fact so that their party would win. It's all disgusting.

[tibbyl]

I've never had to show my ID in Tennessee (Shelby County) voted there for 5 years, never showed my ID in Washington...3 years...Georgia did require my ID on 2 of the 5 years I lived there...

Tara

 

Tara, I, too, am a Shelby County, TN resident. I have voted here since 1984 in 3 different precincts. I have *always* been asked to present valid ID. One of those precincts was a lower income minority area where community activists organized voter registration drives.

Edited October 9, 2008 by tibbyl

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Name one conservative group' date=' just one, who is tied to McCain's campaign that uses convicted felons to pressure people into registering to vote more than once and registering false identities.

 

[/quote']

 

Sorry I don't have any convicted felons for you. This WAS the campaign, though, not a group with "ties" to the organization.

 

This mailing has been reported in several swing states. I think Mama Lynx got one asking her to register in her previous state, which is illegal.

 

I just file this one under "Strange."

[Jean too]

U.S. Sen. Barack Obama's presidential campaign paid more than $800,000 to an offshoot of the liberal Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now for services the Democrat's campaign says it mistakenly misrepresented in federal reports.

 

An Obama spokesman said Federal Election Commission reports would be amended to show Citizens Services Inc. -- a subsidiary of ACORN -- worked in "get-out-the-vote" projects, instead of activities such as polling, advance work and staging major events as stated in FEC finance reports filed during the primary.

[ma23peas]

Tara, I, too, am a Shelby County, TN resident. I have voted here since 1984 in 3 different precincts. I have *always* been asked to present valid ID. One of those precincts was a lower income minority area where community activists organized voter registration drives.

 

Does that in any way discount the fact that I never had to? My point was that it is irregardless whether they check ID's because the majority of the voter fraud is going to be coming from those who MAIL in their ABSENTEE ballots... I only specified Shelby County because the poster I was resonding to is from TN...I posted because someone stated that states require ID so that must in someone prevent fraud...huh? It really is up to the pollling place and the pollster...I've hit some that guess I have an honest face walking in with three kids in tow...I show my voters card and that's all they asked for.

 

Tara

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

Does that in any way discount the fact that I never had to? My point was that it is irregardless whether they check ID's because the majority of the voter fraud is going to be coming from those who MAIL in their ABSENTEE ballots... I only specified Shelby County because the poster I was resonding to is from TN...I posted because someone stated that states require ID so that must in someone prevent fraud...huh? It really is up to the pollling place and the pollster...I've hit some that guess I have an honest face walking in with three kids in tow...I show my voters card and that's all they asked for.

 

Tara

 

You can't vote absentee in TN the first time you vote. So you can't register in Sept. and vote absentee in Nov.

[kokotg]

http://news.racinepost.com/2008/09/gop-absentee-ballot-mailings-called.html

 

In Mount Pleasant, Wisconsin, Democratic voters received a mailing containing tear-out requests for absentee ballots addressed to the clerk in Caledonia -- the wrong location. In Middleton, Wisconsin, Democratic voters received absentee ballot requests addressed to the clerk in Madison -- the wrong address. Both mailers were sent by the McCain campaign.

 

Now, I believe this kind of stuff IS a felony, so if anyone gets convicted, you'll have your convicted felons right in the McCain campaign.

 

Does McCain "palling around" with convicted felon G. Gordon Liddy count for anything? I'm pretty sure he tries to stir up votes for McCain with his radio show.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

U.S. Sen. Barack Obama's presidential campaign paid more than $800,000 to an offshoot of the liberal Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now for services the Democrat's campaign says it mistakenly misrepresented in federal reports.

 

An Obama spokesman said Federal Election Commission reports would be amended to show Citizens Services Inc. -- a subsidiary of ACORN -- worked in "get-out-the-vote" projects, instead of activities such as polling, advance work and staging major events as stated in FEC finance reports filed during the primary.

 

Yep. That's super. Nicely amended. Accuracy is essential.

 

From the same article: "FEC spokeswoman Mary Brandenberger said it is not unusual for campaigns to amend reports, even regarding large sums of money."

 

Looks like they combed their records for accuracy after the workers in some areas stepped out of line, and found this. Good for them, IMO.

 

This is a far cry from your original assertion that they "contributed" money to the organization. And Jean, posting youtube videos with sarcastic assertions that they are not very non-partisan just doesn't make me want to watch or read. I would not even begin to assert that they are non-partisan. But just because an organization is partisan, it doesn't follow logically that they are evil and crooked. There is all kinds of partisan.

[Jenny in Atl]

Name one conservative group' date=' just one, who is tied to McCain's campaign that uses convicted felons to pressure people into registering to vote more than once and registering false identities.

 

.[/quote']

 

Here are a couple supporters who are convicted felons.

 

G. Gordon Liddy (Watergate)

 

And McCain's own father in law, Jim Hensley

 

Bootlegging, Mob Ties, and Gambling

 

in 1945, Jim Hensley and his brother Eugene began working for Kemper Marley. Kemper Marley owned United Sales Company in Phoenix and United Distributors in Tucson.

 

Kemper Marley was purportedly a mob boss. According to the Albuquerque Journal , in a 1953 New Mexico State Police report, Kemper Marley, "is reputed to be the financial backer for the bookies" and "owned a wire service formerly operated in connection with bookmaking of the Al Capone gang." And though never charged, Marley is suspected of ordering the car bomb assassination of journalist Don Bolles in 1976.

 

In 1948, Jim and Eugene Hensley were indicted for falsifying liquor records to conceal illegal distribution of whiskey against post-war rationing regulations. Both men were convicted in U.S. District Court on federal charges of conspiracy and Jim Hensley was also convicted on seven counts of filing false liquor records. While Eugene was sentenced to one year in federal prison, Jim received a six-month suspended sentence.

 

In the early 1950s, Jim and Eugene Hensley bought into the Ruidoso Downs racetrack in New Mexico with equal partner Clarence "Teak" Baldwin. Yet a few months later, at a hearing before the New Mexico State Racing Commission, Jim and Eugene concealed the existence of Baldwin. Because of his illegal bookmaking, Baldwin had been banned from any ownership role. Additionally, New Mexico State Police discovered Kemper Marley was a financial backer for bookmakers with ties to Baldwin and with the bookmaking operations of organized crime. Despite that, Jim and Eugene were given their Ruidoso Downs racetrack license in 1953, a decision John F. Simms, governor of New Mexico's following administration called appalling.

 

In 1953 Jim Hensley and Kemper Marley were again charged with falsifying liquor records. This time Jim was defended by future Supreme Court Justice William Rehnquist. He and Kemper Marley were both men were acquitted.

 

In spite of being a convicted felon, Jim Hensley was somehow granted a state liquor license in 1955 (and later a federal liquor license) to found a beer distributorship. Hensley later switched to distributing exclusively Anheuser-Busch beer, and by 1980 Hensley & Company Distributors and Hensley & Company Wholesale had made Jim Hensley a multi-millionaire.

 

In 1981, Hensley hired his new son-in-law, John McCain, as Vice President of Public Relations for Hensley & Company. It was Hensley's money and influential ties throughout the state of Arizona that help McCain win his first campaign for the U.S. Senate.

 

Heck even David "KKK" Duke has a bit on his page... so you can't say it's liberal bias reporting. http://www.davidduke.com/general/mccains-zionist-mob-ties-suppressed-by-major-media_4151.html

 

Republican voter fraud investigated... http://www.klas-tv.com/global/story.asp?s=2421595

[Mama Lynx]

 

For those worried about the integrity of the election, were you up in arms four years ago? Eight Years ago? Are you concerned about the potential for fraud with paperless (and receiptless) electronic voting?

 

Um ... yes. Why on earth would I not be?

 

I was always very happy with the way my precinct in Texas voted. We had paper. On these papers were arrows, with the middles missing. You had to fill in the arrow for your candidate. Pretty difficult to mess up.

 

I am in favor of ID checks, of observers, and of paper voting. People (rightly) concerned about the disenfranchised not having proper ID ought to focus their efforts to help them get proper ID.

[TN Mama]

I do have to say that I'm thankful I'm not being judged on what my in-laws do or better yet what they did before I even knew them.

[Dawn E]

WSJ Opinion Piece on Obama/Acorn I know this is an opinion piece, but it's still relevant to the discussion

 

 

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

I do have to say that I'm thankful I'm not being judged on what my in-laws do or better yet what they did before I even knew them.

 

It *is* pretty silly, isn't it, to judge someone one what his or her acquaintances did when they were mere children. Inlaws, yes. Acquintances and neighbors who served on charitable boards, definitely.

 

But when one makes accusations, one takes the chance that with what measure ye meet, it shall be measured to you. Unfortunately.

[Bev in B'ville]

It *is* pretty silly, isn't it, to judge someone one what his or her acquaintances did when they were mere children. Inlaws, yes. Acquintances and neighbors who served on charitable boards, definitely.

 

But when one makes accusations, one takes the chance that with what measure ye meet, it shall be measured to you. Unfortunately.

 

 

According to the article you cited, Pam:

 

About one-third of the absentee ballot applications received at the Hamilton County Board of Elections have been ruled invalid because Republican Sen. John McCain’s presidential campaign printed a version of the form with an extra, unneeded box on it. In a narrow interpretation of Ohio law, Democratic Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner says many of the McCain forms have not been completed properly. If the box stating the person is an eligible elector -- or qualified voter – is not checked, Brunner said, the application is no good. Even though the box is unneeded, by not checking it voters are essentially admitting they’re not eligible, Brunner said. [emphasis mine]

 

Having a voter registration form mailed to people with a box that a person must check stating that they are an eligile voter (which McCain's camp knowingly, purposely, intentionally put on the form) in no way equates with Obama's campaign giving $800K to ACORN to hire convicted felons to pressure people into registering to vote more than once. Nor did McCain's team try to register the Dallas Cowboys, or any other professional team, in another state. These two things are not even in the same ballpark.

 

As for the ties to 1940's and 1950's, McCain did not know those men then, and he was a boy. You can't pick your in-laws. You get stuck with whomever comes with your true love. Nor do you say anywhere that these convicted felons are approaching people on the street to make them register to vote many times. G. Gordon Liddy, please. ACORN is using currently convicted felons on a work release program. They haven't even finished serving their sentences yet.

[TN Mama]

It *is* pretty silly, isn't it, to judge someone one what his or her acquaintances did when they were mere children. Inlaws, yes. Acquintances and neighbors who served on charitable boards, definitely.

 

But when one makes accusations, one takes the chance that with what measure ye meet, it shall be measured to you. Unfortunately.

 

I agree with some of what you said above. I did not marry my in-laws, but my husband. I spend some holidays with them, because they are my husband's family. Now, if my husband had some unsavory friends - that would be completely different, imo. I am not required to spend any amount of time with his friends or acquaintances.

[kokotg]

G. Gordon Liddy' date=' please. ACORN is using currently convicted felons on a work release program. They haven't even finished serving their sentences yet.[/quote']

 

Okay, so hold on. Convicted felons are fine. No problems with convicted felons. One should feel free to appear on their radio shows, take campaign contributions from them, and hire them to register voters. It's convicted felons on work release programs that are a problem?

 

And falsified voter registration forms sent out only to voters of the opposite party by your campaign are not a problem (I suppose if Pam's link were the only case of this happening, one could think it was a mistake. The fact that it's happened in many states, with different ways of falsifying the forms seems a little fishy to me. But that's just me.)

 

I'd hate to see the kind of ads the Obama campaign would be putting out with quotes from G. Gordon Liddy ("Now if the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms comes to disarm you and they are bearing arms, resist them with arms. Go for a head shot; they're going to be wearing bulletproof vests. ... Kill the sons of *****es.") juxtaposed with quotes from McCain ("I'm proud of you, I'm proud of your family....It's always a pleasure for me to come on your program, Gordon, and congratulations on your continued success and adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great.") ....if Obama were running the same kind of campaign McCain is. Lucky he's not.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

 

Having a voter registration form mailed to people with a box that a person must check stating that they are an eligile voter (which McCain's camp knowingly' date=' purposely, intentionally put on the form) in no way equates with Obama's campaign giving $800K to ACORN to hire convicted felons to pressure people into registering to vote more than once. Nor did McCain's team try to register the Dallas Cowboys, or any other professional team, in another state. These two things are not even in the same ballpark.[/quote']

 

Link that Sen. Obama paid for felons to pressure people to vote more than once? Link to Sen. Obama's campaign registering the Dallas Cowboys or another professional team in another state?

 

I guess I'm not following the logic here. (And if anyone does and wants to explain this to me using small words, I'm up for it. But please cite *sources*, not blogs or opinion writers when you do it, if you do it.)

 

As for the ties to 1940's and 1950's, McCain did not know those men then, and he was a boy. You can't pick your in-laws. You get stuck with whomever comes with your true love. Nor do you say anywhere that these convicted felons are approaching people on the street to make them register to vote many times. G. Gordon Liddy, please. ACORN is using currently convicted felons on a work release program. They haven't even finished serving their sentences yet.

 

Is it illegal for these folks to work? Was it illegal for ACORN to hire them? I'm unclear about that. I thought the issue what that convicted felons were being REGISTERED to vote, not that ACORN was hiring them. I'm confused.

 

Is it stupid that they allegedly forged voter registrations? You bet. Should they be fired? You bet. ACORN says they submitted fraudulant registrations but were ignored and then asked to submit again before they were raided. So... ??

 

G. Gordon Liddy? Irrelevant? Perhaps. Perhaps not. If associations matter, well. They either matter or they don't. And I'd call Liddy a heck of a lot closer than a fellow board member on a charity organized by a former Reagan ambassador and peopled with dems and republicans, neighbor, and $200 contributor to a state Senatorial campaign. *shrug*

 

Terry Nelson? Richard Quinn? George Wallace, Jr.?

 

Anyway, if someone wants to point out the mote in a company that's trying to register disenfranchised voters who hires part-time employees at very low pay who try to pad their paychecks (Surprise! :glare: Now there's a successful business model, eh? Um, no.), one can expect to be reminded of the beam in their own eye.

[elizabeth]

http://www.fec.gov/hava/hava.htm The voting act 2002 that is allegedly being violated by the same parties who purport to be investigating "fraud".

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27093919/ the article regarding the illegality of purging voting rolls absent the protections of the 2002 law. It may be of no moment to some but it would seem that many on the boards really care about the letter of the law and I thought this article might be of interest to those who want both sides of the story.

[Jenny in Atl]

I agree with some of what you said above. I did not marry my in-laws, but my husband. I spend some holidays with them, because they are my husband's family. Now, if my husband had some unsavory friends - that would be completely different, imo. I am not required to spend any amount of time with his friends or acquaintances.

 

McCain took money and support from his FIL, and has often called him a great role model. McCain long time gambler has numerous ties and close relations with casino moguls, also taking their $$. I think the point is that one looks away when the candidate is supporting ones views, if this was Obama's FIL or friends, many here would be all over it.

[ma23peas]

You can't vote absentee in TN the first time you vote. So you can't register in Sept. and vote absentee in Nov.

 

VOTING ABSENTEE in the SWING STATES! As I mentioned before ACORN is not in TN now is it?

 

Tara

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

VOTING ABSENTEE in the SWING STATES! As I mentioned before ACORN is not in TN now is it?

 

Tara

 

Ummm.... I'm sorry.

 

I think I thought we were talking about voting in TN. I don't know if ACORN is in TN.

 

I'm so sorry. I never meant to anger you. What did I say? I will specifically and publicly apologize.

[ma23peas]

Is it stupid that they allegedly forged voter registrations? You bet. Should they be fired? You bet. ACORN says they submitted fraudulant registrations but were ignored and then asked to submit again before they were raided. So... ??

 

 

 

Many things are stupid, this is ILLEGAL. They are fraudulently trying to force their candidate into office...Not one of the Obama supporters has spoken to the fact that ACORN is targeting ONLY swing states...so please tell me with all this knowledge and opinion you have to disperse...can you not explain to me why ACORN ONLY targeting swing states is not an issue for you as much as their illegally forging voter registrations? Shouldn't ANY group promoting voter registration be pushing for registration in all states?

 

Tara

[ma23peas]

Ummm.... I'm sorry.

 

I think I thought we were talking about voting in TN. I don't know if ACORN is in TN.

 

I'm so sorry. I never meant to anger you. What did I say? I will specifically and publicly apologize.

 

No!! Not angry at all!! Just trying to make sure the point was made clear for the third time....my first post, I stated it wasn't about ID's, then I had to post again that it wasn't about ID's it was about Absentee voting (had already referenced in the other messages that it was absentee in the swing states) and having to mention it again..anger, not at all, a wee bit frustrating to say something three times...:tongue_smilie:

 

But, I will say this whole ACORN mess has me very angry....I would not mind if it were 2-3 cases in a single state..but when it's in 4 swing states already and thousands of cases...I really have to question how many were NOT found...and if you have numbskulls like this running a 'right to vote' campaign...how many of those 'volunteers' will be running the polls? Do you not think they've already infiltrated the polling places with their 'people'? I would even think I was being paranoid, but given the repeated offenses, I don't put anything past these people...and unfortunately they're all pulling for Obama...not a reflection on Obama, but a strong question as to how this election will not go easily unless it's a landslide in otherwise non swing states.

 

Tara

[Chelle in MO]

Chelle,

 

We have passports, we have social security cards, they are OUR identification why would putting a picture on our social security cards be different than already having a number attached to us? We've been there.

 

Tara

Thank you for responding, Tara. I am WAY out of my league in this thread, so I'll go post a recipe or something!

 

Chelle