getting food stamps and taking a trip to Disney????

[shell in SC]

OK, am I just not very compassionate or are there others out there that think this is not right????

 

On another message board I encountered someone who is applying for food stamps. . .granted her income is very low. . .I think she said $400 a month. She is living with a relative. . .so no rent. She saves half her income every month for a trip to Disney.

 

I have a real problem with that. . .granted $400 a month (regardless of what she does with the money) should qualify her for food stamps, but I'm floored that people do this. If I saved half my money for a vacation I'd need food stamps too.

 

I just don't get this. . .can someone esplain this to me like I'm a 4 yr old?

[HRAAB]

I do try to be compassionate, so with that in mind: I don't know the particulars of this situation. Could her child have a life threatening disease and is saving for a much wanted trip? Something on that order? Short of that, no, I don't think this is right. She's living with a relative, not paying rent? Does she pay the relative anything for food? At $400. a mo. she should have any discretionary funds with which to play. Disneyland is playing.

 

I'm not opposed to helping those who need help, but there are always those who will take advantage of the system.

 

Janet

[Parrothead]

I'm not opposed to helping those who need help, but there are always those who will take advantage of the system.

 

:iagree::iagree: I can't say anything more on this subject or it will turn into a nasty rant.

[emeraldjoy]

Although, I do hear what you are saying:

 

I do not believe that low income people should be excluded from fun.

There may be a lot that is part of this situation that is not fully known. Is she a single parent? Is she or a child disabled? Maybe this has been a dream of her children's for years and she is working very hard toward making it a reality; maybe staying with relatives so she can save, etc.

 

The fact that she is saving up for a trip, to me, shows a certain level of personal responsibility.

 

I think there is a common misconception that most of the people who are getting public assistance are somehow using the system and just need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and make it on their own. Certainly there are people who fall into that category, but I think the reality points more toward individuals who actually need the help. What if she were a single parent who quit her job so she could stay home to educate her kids? Should she not be allowed to go to Disneyland?

 

There are always the "what ifs" of life.

 

Emerald

[Wendi]

I don't think anyone's arguing that low income people should be excluded from fun. What seems troublesome is that this low income person seems to be purchasing that fun at others' expense. Now, the relative who's sharing his/her home is doing this willingly. Fine. But it bothers me to think that I'm subsidizing her responsibilities (food) so she can do something fun. Many people who make above the poverty level, and do not qualify for food stamps, cannot afford to save $200 a month for a trip to Disney. So we feel a bit uncomfortable about paying for someone's groceries so they can afford a trip to Disney.

 

Wendi

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

Although, I do hear what you are saying:

 

I do not believe that low income people should be excluded from fun.

There may be a lot that is part of this situation that is not fully known. Is she a single parent? Is she or a child disabled? Maybe this has been a dream of her children's for years and she is working very hard toward making it a reality; maybe staying with relatives so she can save, etc.

 

The fact that she is saving up for a trip, to me, shows a certain level of personal responsibility.

 

I think there is a common misconception that most of the people who are getting public assistance are somehow using the system and just need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and make it on their own. Certainly there are people who fall into that category, but I think the reality points more toward individuals who actually need the help. What if she were a single parent who quit her job so she could stay home to educate her kids? Should she not be allowed to go to Disneyland?

 

There are always the "what ifs" of life.

 

Emerald

 

Very very well said.

 

Explained like I would to a 4 year old- she is not you. You have your own life. She has her own life. It is up to her not you what she does with her money.

[VaKim]

I don't think anyone's arguing that low income people should be excluded from fun. What seems troublesome is that this low income person seems to be purchasing that fun at others' expense. Now, the relative who's sharing his/her home is doing this willingly. Fine. But it bothers me to think that I'm subsidizing her responsibilities (food) so she can do something fun. Many people who make above the poverty level, and do not qualify for food stamps, cannot afford to save $200 a month for a trip to Disney. So we feel a bit uncomfortable about paying for someone's groceries so they can afford a trip to Disney.

 

Wendi

 

:iagree:

[PinkInTheBlue]

I'm not saying low income shouldn't have fun but I am saying that if she's "responsible" enough to save half of her $400 income then she should be saving that to buy her own groceries. I'd rather she wasn't using my taxes to help fund her Disney trip!

 

This is what I think of when I think of the current candidates who are running for president saying that they want to lower taxes for the lower income but possibly raise taxes for those over $250,000. I'm glad Warren Buffett feels like he makes so much that he should pay even more. As a self employed person I seriously resent the high amount of taxes I pay, especially when it's so often going to fund someone's Disney trip. (this is my personal :rant: ...I'm finished now :)

 

P.S. I did "pull myself up by my bootstraps" from a rotten situation. I definitely wasn't born or given this income level. I busted my tail and worked really hard to get here. I didn't get here going to Disney. Again, this is my opinion, my rant and my situation.

[Debbie in OR]

It is up to her not you what she does with her money.

 

But it's not her money (well, the part she puts away each month is). Those food stamps are mine and yours and theirs and hers.

 

We just got back from Disney after having spent two years saving for it. Some of that money came out of our food budget so there were many things we did without while saving. Never asked the government to help.

 

I do think that everyone should be able to have fun but using government monies (read: our money) to subsidize it does bother me.

[Kris]

Very very well said.

 

Explained like I would to a 4 year old- she is not you. You have your own life. She has her own life. It is up to her not you what she does with her money.

 

She can do anything she likes with her money -- absolutely! But if the taxpayers are buying her food, it's the taxpayers' money. Though it can be argued that once it's taken from someone else and given to her, it is then her money.

Edited October 8, 2008 by Kris

[lovemyboys]

Could her child have a life threatening disease and is saving for a much wanted trip? Something on that order? Short of that, no, I don't think this is right.

 

I'm not opposed to helping those who need help, but there are always those who will take advantage of the system.

 

 

We've had several friends take those "make a wish" trips. They're very generous and seem to treat people without regard to income.

[Blossom'sGirl]

I know we qualify for Wic and almost for food stamps. We are doing fine without them but our vacations are minimal. Disney World is a great place to go if you can afford it. I don't see it as a need for my children. I have been on Wic in the past and it really helped for that time but I got off it as soon as I knew we were OK. It is tempting, I guess, to stay on and not have to pay for the tons of milk and cheese these guys consume but inside I do not feel "right" about it.

 

I do try not to "judge" others because when we were on Wic I had an older lady verbally attack me for using it and implying that I should control how many children I have. I didn't even have them all with me at the time.

 

But....we live in a low income area and the public assistance abuse I do see makes me sick inside.

[shell in SC]

OK, I am by no means wealthy, but I don't fall into food stamp guidelines. We stuggle to make ends meet and I can't save $200 a month for a vacation. Why should my tax dollars give her food stamps so that she can go to Disney? It just seems a little fishy to me.

 

Saving money for a vacation is not showing personal responsibility when you have to turn around and get food stamps. In fact to me it seems the opposite. Personal responsibility to me means that you are personally responsible for providing the necessities in life (of which Disney is not one). You are personally responsible for your actions and the consequences of said actions. This is not being personally responsible. . .I am getting food stamps so that I can go on vacation.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

But....we live in a low income area and the public assistance abuse I do see makes me sick inside.

 

The public assistance abuse is nothing to what I see in my neighborhood. People with 3 cars, nice homes, cell phones, getting nails done, going to the spa- saying that the poor just need to work harder "like they did" and complaining about having to pay taxes so that people like this mother can feed her family.

 

When and where I grew up we were taught something called the responsibility of wealth. That people of means had a duty and an obligation to help improve the lives of those less fortunate. These "new money" people apparently never got any of those values passed down to them.

[Jennifer3141]

What if she was saving the money for health care expenses? Would that change anyone's answers?

 

What is she was just putting the money away in case the entire world's economies crash?

 

Who should get to decide what people do with their "leftover" money if government assistance is given? A Republican? A Democrat? A panel of single parents?

 

Jen

[threetreasurs]

I did taxes for a few years and many, many people fail to report gift income, other support etc which is a form of cheating the system.

 

In this particular case, it is impossible to know if this is happening without more detail.

 

Also, cheating when reporting income, in order to get more money - either as gov't aide, bigger refund, or paying less taxes - is more common than we might like to think and crosses ALL income lines.:confused:

[Kris]

The public assistance abuse is nothing to what I see in my neighborhood. People with 3 cars, nice homes, cell phones, getting nails done, going to the spa- saying that the poor just need to work harder "like they did" and complaining about having to pay taxes so that people like this mother can feed her family.

 

When and where I grew up we were taught something called the responsibility of wealth. That people of means had a duty and an obligation to help improve the lives of those less fortunate. These "new money" people apparently never got any of those values passed down to them.

 

So -- the lady on food stamps who wants to go to Disneyland is entitled to do what she wants with her money? But people with too many cars, cell phones or houses are not?

[Karenciavo]

Once you help someone in need it is best to look away or a spirit of bitterness may take root.

[emeraldjoy]

Another misconception is the actual amount of our tax money that goes into programs such as food stamps. If I find some time today I will do a bit of research on the figures and try to figure out how to post something like that on here. I remember learning several years ago that (excluding health insurance) less that 1% of our tax income goes to these social services. Much, much more goes into the war effort and other maybe not so justified areas. It has always been an easy platform for people to jump on, but if you are really concerned about where your tax money is going, I think your efforts would be better spent attacking other spending areas.

 

I very much hear you about the "working poor"; those that fall above the income level to get help, but barely make enough to survive, especially when it comes to health insurance. This is a huge tragedy in our country, it really is. However, I do not think the blame should go on the lower income people who are actually getting help. It is not their fault that the system is set up how it is.

 

By the way, it is not an easy thing to get food stamp or cash assistance. It really is a labour intensive process and in about 1995, the previous Entitlement programs (when some of these old arguments could work), were completely done away with and noone, anymore, is entitled to anything. They have the burden of proof, I guess I could say.

 

There is always a pecking order; I think it is sort of part of the human condition.

 

Emerald

Edited October 8, 2008 by emeraldjoy
spelling

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

Also, cheating when reporting income, in order to get more money - either as gov't aide, bigger refund, or paying less taxes - is more common than we might like to think and crosses ALL income lines.:confused:

 

And let us not forget- the more $$$$ you have, the more loopholes there are. For people who make $400 a month there is not much in the way of tax write offs.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

So -- the lady on food stamps who wants to go to Disneyland is entitled to do what she wants with her money? But people with too many cars, cell phones or houses are not?

 

Is that what I said? NOT!!!

[Jenny in Florida]

I don't remember what book it was, but I remember reading this when I was young and it making a big impact on my thinking.

 

A child will forget a time of hunger, but will never get over doing without one special toy.

 

Now, obviously, this can be taken too far. And I'm in no way advocating allowing people to live on welfare so that they can spend their meagre paychecks on the latest Nintendo offering.

 

Children grow up. Perhaps this parent has realized that she may stay poor forever, and this is her only chance to make this child's dream come true. It's not a choice I would make--although I've certainly scrimped on things other people might consider necessities and made due without "basics" in order to provide my kids with a bit of magic and joy--but I can see how a person might decide it's a valid one.

[Amy loves Bud]

And let us not forget- the more $$$$ you have, the more loopholes there are. For people who make $400 a month there is not much in the way of tax write offs.

 

Yes, but that person would not pay any taxes, but instead receive a "refund" of $3-400. Seems like they don't need any loopholes.

[Murphy101]

in my state, every 6 months you have to submit a ton of financial paperwork to keep or get foodstamps. All bank statements, car titles, utility bills for a 6 month period.

 

and one of the requirements for assistance is that you can never have more than I think $500 in savings. Plus you can't have assets that can be readily liquidated. (no boats, no extra vehicles, no burial plots - things that could be sold for income.)

 

I don't know how she can keep her food stamp eligibility and a bank account with enough in it for a trip to disney.:confused:

 

ETA: One could argue that if they have enough money for Disney, they have enough money for food and thus do not need FOODstamps.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

Yes, but that person would not pay any taxes, but instead receive a "refund" of $3-400. Seems like they don't need any loopholes.

 

Yeah $300 bucks can certainly compare to some of the several hundred grand write offs my FIL does for his clients. :confused:

[tibbyl]

One never knows the whole story, especially on an internet message board.

 

Personally I do not feel that we as individuals need to monitor or assess the financial decisions of those on public assistance since, for most recipients, there is adequate humiliation inherent in the process and in any system there will be some degree of corruption.

 

Plus it serves to pit the common people against one another, which is quite convenient for the powerful and well-connected people and businesses whose "public assistance" is like an ocean compared to our puddles. Those in the know are much more skilled at extracting public funds in a manner not readily visible to the average Joe. Chrysler does not get bailed out in the Safeway checkout line. But it is the everyday powerless people among us who are most visible. Also, remember that almost all of us, at one time or another in our lives, are the recipients of government entitlements. Just like the working poor and ubiquitous middle class, we pay taxes toward those entitlements.

 

As for explaining to a four year old, something like this, "Each person is responsible for making their own financial decisions. The woman obviously fell within guidelines for government assistance. When scrutinized by an outsider, anyone's financial choices could be found faulty in some aspect., depending upon the outsider's priorities and values."

[Tracey in TX]

 

This is what I think of when I think of the current candidates who are running for president saying that they want to lower taxes for the lower income but possibly raise taxes for those over $250,000. I'm glad Warren Buffett feels like he makes so much that he should pay even more. As a self employed person I seriously resent the high amount of taxes I pay, especially when it's so often going to fund someone's Disney trip. (this is my personal :rant: ...I'm finished now :)

 

P.S. I did "pull myself up by my bootstraps" from a rotten situation. I definitely wasn't born or given this income level. I busted my tail and worked really hard to get here. I didn't get here going to Disney. Again, this is my opinion, my rant and my situation.

I agree! We work very hard and made sacrifices to make our lives what it now is. Raman noodles, eggs, and water were once fine dining. Sure as heck didn't use tax payers money to feed ourselves, yet vacation at the Magic Kingdom. Just doesn't add up according to my value system. As tax payers we should cry outrage for this type of abuse. If you can stash away $200/mo for a vacation, maybe not taking that vacation and pulling one's self up by her own bootstraps might be a bit more, um, respectable.

[Murphy101]

Yes, but that person would not pay any taxes, but instead receive a "refund" of $3-400. Seems like they don't need any loopholes.

 

 

do not confuse low income with not paying taxes.

they still pay property tax, sales tax, and many other taxes even if they aren't paying income tax out of their paycheck. and yes, most on assistance do earn a paycheck, however meager.

[CactusPair]

Do you know how much she actually receives in food stamps? It could be very little, a pittance. When my parents divorced we did get food stamps, but it bought very little.

[tibbyl]

Oh, and I'd tell the 4 year old to never under any circumstances share with anyone that she is recipient of public assistance.

[Amy loves Bud]

Yeah $300 bucks can certainly compare to some of the several hundred grand write offs my FIL does for his clients. :confused:

 

I'm not saying it does. But your point was that person didn't have any loopholes like the rich to avoid paying taxes. My point is this person isn't paying any federal income taxes. Instead they are being given money in the form of an earned income tax credit.

 

And I appreciate what you are saying about the responsibility of the wealthy. But I think it's a big assumption that someone with all the luxuries you describe is not giving like crazy to help the poor. Many aren't, but many are. I'm a big believer in the responsibility of the wealthy, and while Bud and I aren't wealthy in the typical use of the word, we are wealthy in that we have a lovely home, plenty of food, etc. And we take our resonsiblity seriously. We just don't appreciate the government taking our money at gunpoint and feeding someone else so they can spend their grocery budget on a trip to Disney. Because the government has no business doing such a thing.

[Renee in NC]

in my state, every 6 months you have to submit a ton of financial paperwork to keep or get foodstamps. All bank statements, car titles, utility bills for a 6 month period.

 

and one of the requirements for assistance is that you can never have more than I think $500 in savings. Plus you can't have assets that can be readily liquidated. (no boats, no extra vehicles, no burial plots - things that could be sold for income.)

 

I don't know how she can keep her food stamp eligibility and a bank account with enough in it for a trip to disney.:confused:

 

ETA: One could argue that if they have enough money for Disney, they have enough money for food and thus do not need FOODstamps.

 

The asset limit is $2000 for NC, so it must vary state to state.

 

I can't imagine saving for a trip to Disney while receiving food stamps. Then again, I am sure people have problems with what I do as well.

[Amy loves Bud]

do not confuse low income with not paying taxes.

they still pay property tax, sales tax, and many other taxes even if they aren't paying income tax out of their paycheck. and yes, most on assistance do earn a paycheck, however meager.

 

I should have stated "federal income tax". This has already been covered in this thread.

[Tracey in TX]

And let us not forget- the more $$$$ you have, the more loopholes there are. For people who make $400 a month there is not much in the way of tax write offs.

 

Loopholes? ROFL, please come do our taxes to find those nebulous loopholes. Let's go to a flat tax where loopholes don't exist and everyone above a minimal income pays the same percentage. Why penalize those who work hard or made tough sacrifices previously? Way too Robin Hood to offer up vacations to those who don't work, but feed off the system.

[Amy loves Bud]

Once you help someone in need it is best to look away or a spirit of bitterness may take root.

 

Karen, I absolutely agree here. But we are not talking about one person giving another person money to help them out. We are talking about the government forcibly taking money from citizens and giving it to others. It gets to what one fundamentally believes the role of the governement is in the private lives of its citizens.

[Amy loves Bud]

Loopholes? ROFL, please come do our taxes to find those nebulous loopholes. Let's go to a flat tax where loopholes don't exist and everyone above a minimal income pays the same percentage. Why penalize those who work hard or made tough sacrifices previously? Way too Robin Hood to offer up vacations to those who don't work, but feed off the system.

 

 

I have to agree with you on the loopholes bit. Not necessarily on the flat tax, but the loopsholes must be pretty tiny, because I haven't been able to find them.

[threetreasurs]

Interesting article

 

http://www.newsweek.com/id/162789

[PiCO]

These "new money" people apparently never got any of those values passed down to them.

 

I agree with this, and this has been going on for a long time. I grew up middle-class in a part of CT where there was a LOT of old money families. Those kids were just like me- drove beater cars, wore regular clothes, were expected to work, etc. I never knew how rich they were until I visited their homes. These people were always helping the less fortunate through volunteer work and donation.

 

The new money kids got brand new Trans Ams for their 16th birthdays, wore expensive jewelry to school, shoved their wealth down everyone's throat. These were the people who did not want to help others, but wanted others to pull themselves up.

[joannqn]

I agree with Wendi and Jessica.

 

We are low income. Due to my husband's income decreasing by several hundred dollars a month starting last month, we are having trouble paying for our bills, fuel, and groceries. But that's not anyone else's responsiblity. We chose the decisions that have lead us to this financial situation. My husband chose the jobs he's taken. We chose for me to stay home and homeschool even though it puts a strain on us financially. We chose to make the dumb move to use credit cards. I don't expect those who have made better financial decisions, those who make more than $250,000 a year, to pay for my mistakes. Instead we are tightening our belts a little more. We are definitely not going to Disneyland any time soon.

 

The only exception I have made is children's health care. We used to pay for that out of pocket...$150 a month for two children. I don't know how much it would cost now with three children. That health care had a $500 deductible for each child, so I had to decide if my child was sick enough to go to the doctor. When the state sent me a letter informing me that we qualified for children's health insurance I took it so I wouldn't have to judge whether or not to take them to the doctor based on money. However, I would prefer to have my taxes lower so I could pay for my own responsibilities more easily.

[Amy loves Bud]

Interesting article

 

http://www.newsweek.com/id/162789

 

Not sure what this has to do with the discussion. :confused:

[Mom to Aly]

There is something wrong here, if she is being honest. If she is living with a relative, they will take everything, every penny, that comes into that household into account--meaning if that relative makes a good bit of money, that will count towards the whole house's income--so it will effect whether or not she gets food stamps.

 

She should be saving that money, because, if that relative does make a normal amount of money, she won't get those food stamps.

 

I don't mean to sound nasty, but, really, food stamps are there to help you when you have no other recourse. I know, I have no extra money, I scrape by unable to buy food by the end of some months, and to be able to put $200 away? She isn't telling someone something. You cannot have $200 in disposable income and get food stamps. They look at what comes into your household, EVERYONE living where you live! If you are living with someone who pays the bills and makes $5,000 a month, you can get $20 a month and you won't get food stamps!

 

Someone needs to talk to her, because if she isn't being honest, I believe food stamp fraud is a felony.

[Karenciavo]

Karen, I absolutely agree here. But we are not talking about one person giving another person money to help them out. We are talking about the government forcibly taking money from citizens and giving it to others. It gets to what one fundamentally believes the role of the governement is in the private lives of its citizens.

 

I understand. What about when they spend their food stamps on fatty foods and sugary snacks? At some point we have to relinquish control. I believe once a person legally qualifies we can no longer have a say and if that person chooses to live even more frugally for 6 months so they can go on vacation so be it. I wouldn't do it and I might cringe when I hear it, but ultimately it's out of my hands.

[Amy loves Bud]

There is something wrong here, if she is being honest. If she is living with a relative, they will take everything, every penny, that comes into that household into account--meaning if that relative makes a good bit of money, that will count towards the whole house's income--so it will effect whether or not she gets food stamps.

 

 

 

This is infuriating! This actually discourages people from helping out their relatives/neighbors. Arghhhhhhh!

[LizzyBee]

I did taxes for a few years and many, many people fail to report gift income, other support etc which is a form of cheating the system.

 

:confused: Gifts are not taxable; therefore, failing to report it is not cheating the system. Gifts in excess of $12,000 per year to a single person may be taxable - but to the donor, not the donee.

[A home for their hearts]

Who are we to judge? I'm sure we have areas in our own lives that people would frown upon or not agree with.

 

Who knows the life of this lady? Maybe she made good money before and for whatever reason lost her job. So now she wants to take her child to disney world? So what? We don't even know how much in food stamps she is getting, it could only $20.

 

We pay into the system and if the day ever comes that we need assistant, actually we do but we don't qualify, I don't believe it would be anybody's bussiness. We have paid taxes for over 10 years I believe we would have paid enough in taxes to cover what we would recieve.

 

There that's my 2 cents. :001_smile:

[Amy loves Bud]

I understand. What about when they spend their food stamps on fatty foods and sugary snacks? At some point we have to relinquish control. I believe once a person legally qualifies we can no longer have a say and if that person chooses to live even more frugally for 6 months so they can go on vacation so be it. I wouldn't do it and I might cringe when I hear it, but ultimately it's out of my hands.

 

You are absolutely right about that. If the system allows this to happen (according to Aly above, it doesn't and something is amiss with the situation described) then I can't tell her how to spend the money. But it does mean that I speak up to my representatives and other voters about the mess that this system is. It's not about bitterness, more about exercising my responsibility as a citizen and voicing my thoughts on how this country is run.

[threetreasurs]

<<Not sure what this has to do with the discussion. :confused:>>

 

Blaming poor people for our financial problems when there is so much going on at the top.

 

More stream of consciousness than directly related - but when things get tight it is tempting to start pointing fingers and picking on the people at the bottom of the pyramid when some at the top contributed just as much, if not more, to the problem.

[A home for their hearts]

There is something wrong here, if she is being honest. If she is living with a relative, they will take everything, every penny, that comes into that household into account--meaning if that relative makes a good bit of money, that will count towards the whole house's income--so it will effect whether or not she gets food stamps.

 

She should be saving that money, because, if that relative does make a normal amount of money, she won't get those food stamps.

 

I don't mean to sound nasty, but, really, food stamps are there to help you when you have no other recourse. I know, I have no extra money, I scrape by unable to buy food by the end of some months, and to be able to put $200 away? She isn't telling someone something. You cannot have $200 in disposable income and get food stamps. They look at what comes into your household, EVERYONE living where you live! If you are living with someone who pays the bills and makes $5,000 a month, you can get $20 a month and you won't get food stamps!

 

Someone needs to talk to her, because if she isn't being honest, I believe food stamp fraud is a felony.

 

I believe it depends on the state you live in as to what the laws are about food stamps. Many years ago when I recieved food stamps I lived with my sister, ,they did not take her income into account because I said I did not eat her food. I believe there was a form I filled out and it asked if you were eating the food that was in the house in which you were living, if you weren't then they didn't take that person's income into account.

 

Welfare isn't as easy to get as one might think. When I was in need of assistance because I could. not. get. a job. I only qualified for $100 in cash and about $60 in food stamps. People make it sound like those who live on welfare are out there living it up and in most cases it just isn't true.

[PariSarah]

It can keep people from starving, but it can't teach people to make better life choices, because better life choices require sacrifice and moral discernment. Americans are, whether rightly or wrongly, suspicious of governments that try to mandate either of those things.

 

I do want to be part of a country that can keep people from starving. But I don't have any illusions that it will work perfectly in every case. This example seems . . . just one more example of how bureaucracy is no substitute for community.

 

It makes me want to support--with my own, private money and time, so that there's no hint of government coercion--small, local charities that are able to inculcate those two virtues. It takes a lot more time to get involved with a family and help them make better choices, over the long haul, without judgmentalism but with good judgment. It takes true friendship and love. That's why charities are called charities--the root word is love.

[dcjlkplus3]

I don't think anyone's arguing that low income people should be excluded from fun. What seems troublesome is that this low income person seems to be purchasing that fun at others' expense. Now, the relative who's sharing his/her home is doing this willingly. Fine. But it bothers me to think that I'm subsidizing her responsibilities (food) so she can do something fun. Many people who make above the poverty level, and do not qualify for food stamps, cannot afford to save $200 a month for a trip to Disney. So we feel a bit uncomfortable about paying for someone's groceries so they can afford a trip to Disney.

 

Wendi

:iagree::iagree:I would love to be able to save for Disney (or something even less fun like college) for my kids, but feeding them without government help is far more important.