Second Presidential Debate Poll

[Bev in B'ville]

I find it very interesting how many times Obama uses the word "fair" or some derivative. Joe Biden did this as well last week. I counted the number of times that word or its derivative was used. Democrats overwhelmingly appeal to a sense of fairness in the world. Their arguments are based on emotional context, not logical deduction. My husband's family is very divided. His sister and her dh are both staunch democrats, having worked for the DNC and are still working for the democratic party, but in a private setting now. My dh and his brother are both republicans. I've heard the arguments for 20 years now when they debate (which I stay out of). When faced with a logical deduction, they cannot argue it, so resort back to "fairness" and emotional pleas.

 

Wake up folks! The world is not fair, nor should it be. My family has money now because we've worked hard and gotten a good education. Both my dh and myself came from poor beginnings. In my husband's case, welfare and food stamps. He managed to graduate valedictorian, get a scholarship and make something of himself. I took a more circuitous route, joining the army to pay for my college, but I, too, have managed to make something of myself. (Patting myself on the back here: A book, to which I contributed a chapter, is now sitting on my shelf. It is used in graduate studies and cost a whopping $180.) Does this mean we should bail out people who have made and continue to make poor decisions. People who (and this is 40% of people) don't pay any taxes.

 

Bottom line again: We are where we are because of the decisions we've made. Good decisions = good consequences. Bad decisions = bad consequences. I teach this to my dc every day -- and I dare say most of you do, too. The problem is that when people make a bad decision, they generally follow it up with more bad decisions, trying the quick fix method. There's no quick fix. The people who made poor decisions, took questionable loans or made questionable loans are now facing the consequences of their decisions (and, yes, I'm talking about the greed on Wall Street, too.)

 

If you didn't get to see Dave Ramsey on the Fox news show this morning, I would urge you to find his statements either on his website (daveramsey.com) or on youtube. He has a knack for putting the financial situation in a context that everyday people can understand. He said by raising taxes, we're going to take an economy that has pneumonia and is in bed already, and give it a brain tumor or cancer. Wonderful!

[Erica in PA]

Perhaps our off hand comments show our character more than scripted remarks.

 

LOL, sure, that can be true. But sometimes things really are just an offhand comment that are not a revelation of person's character, no matter how much some people may want to interpret them that way.

 

John McCain has a long record of working with people of differing policies, Barack Obama does not. There's nothing in McCain's long public history to suggest that he looks down on people and belittles them, and refuses to acknowledge them. To draw that conclusion from one isolated circumstance where he failed to use a person's name when referring to them... At first I thought I missed something, but now I just think it's absurd partisanship.

[Liberty]

I watched the first hour after my appointments were finished last night at work with my tech, assistant, and receptionist. We work at an independent veterinary clinic, i.e. small business.

When Obama was claiming that "only a very small percentage of small businesses make over $250,000" and would thus be affected by his tax hike, I couldn't believe it. Our clinic, in semirural Minnesota easily makes over that amount. Is he kidding? I about jumped out of my chair yelling liar at the screen. His tax cut to 95% of the population is a joke. He will raise so many corporate taxes and "rich" people taxes, the ones who own businesses and create jobs, that the cost will be passed on to the rest of us regardless through rising costs and less jobs.

I thought McCain, less polished as he is, showed more substance. I will take substance over polish any day.

 

:iagree:

 

My family has owned a small business for 40 years. It exists in a small, rural community and is, by no means, greatly successful (they've had to cut all health insurance and lay off nearly all employees in the past 2 years), YET it is not difficult to reach the $250,000 threshold in sales (it's not based on profit, mind you--never has been). Right now, taxes are killing them (our state has additionally higher taxes for businesses and, not suprisingly enough, a correspondingly higher unemployment rate than the rest of the nation--go figure!). Under Obama I shudder to think what is in store for them (bankruptcy? An end of an era in my family?).

 

Few people realize how disconnected Obama is with real life business owners. His proposed policies and plans will be devastating to them, and, ultimately, to the entire nation. IMO, he just doesn't "get it."

[Elaine]

I find it very interesting how many times Obama uses the word "fair" or some derivative. Joe Biden did this as well last week. I counted the number of times that word or its derivative was used. Democrats overwhelmingly appeal to a sense of fairness in the world. Their arguments are based on emotional context' date=' not logical deduction. My husband's family is very divided. His sister and her dh are both staunch democrats, having worked for the DNC and are still working for the democratic party, but in a private setting now. My dh and his brother are both republicans. I've heard the arguments for 20 years now when they debate (which I stay out of). When faced with a logical deduction, they cannot argue it, so resort back to "fairness" and emotional pleas.

 

Wake up folks! The world is not fair, nor should it be. My family has money now because we've worked hard and gotten a good education. Both my dh and myself came from poor beginnings. In my husband's case, welfare and food stamps. He managed to graduate valedictorian, get a scholarship and make something of himself. I took a more circuitous route, joining the army to pay for my college, but I, too, have managed to make something of myself. (Patting myself on the back here: A book, to which I contributed a chapter, is now sitting on my shelf. It is used in graduate studies and cost a whopping $180.) Does this mean we should bail out people who have made and continue to make poor decisions. People who (and this is 40% of people) don't pay any taxes.

 

Bottom line again: We are where we are because of the decisions we've made. Good decisions = good consequences. Bad decisions = bad consequences. I teach this to my dc every day -- and I dare say most of you do, too. The problem is that when people make a bad decision, they generally follow it up with more bad decisions, trying the quick fix method. There's no quick fix. The people who made poor decisions, took questionable loans or made questionable loans are now facing the consequences of their decisions (and, yes, I'm talking about the greed on Wall Street, too.)

 

If you didn't get to see Dave Ramsey on the Fox news show this morning, I would urge you to find his statements either on his website (daveramsey.com) or on youtube. He has a knack for putting the financial situation in a context that everyday people can understand. He said by raising taxes, we're going to take an economy that has pneumonia and is in bed already, and give it a brain tumor or cancer. Wonderful![/quote']

 

I think I love you, Bev!;) I totally agree. The government is not responsible for people being overextended on credit and mortgages, people are. We should not bail anyone out. You got yourself into the mess, you get yourself out. And FWIW, this is spoken by someone in a mess.

 

 

As to the debate-

 

I thought that McCain answered the questions quickly and with conviction whereas Obama stumbled over words and said "uh" more times than I would have liked to hear. Many times my husband remarked, "Answer the question Obama."

 

As for the comment to Tom Brokaw, it was a joke. I am sure if Obama said it it would be, "That Obama is so witty! I'd love to have him at a dinner party." And I clearly heard McCain refer to him as Senator Obama. We all hear what we want.

 

Bottom line, no one is going to be swayed from any opinion in these threads. All these threads do, IMO, is serve to further divide us and strengthen party lines.

[Danestress]

I think McCain needed to turn the tide away from Obama. He needed to shake voter confidence in Obama's character, judgment, and experience - and not shake those who are already shaken. He needed to convince people who are undecided or are still able to be influenced.

 

I don't think he did that, so to me, this was a "win" for Obama because anything that leaves the campaigns about where they were before is a "win" for him. We will see when we get new, reliable polling data over the next few days. But my guess is that Obama has not lost the edge in the polls that he had going in.

 

I think McCain did a fine job. It was a good format for him. But I don't think he probably changed the numbers.

[Robin in Tx]

So who won?

 

Dunno. Couldn't stay awake. And I tried. Hard.

[Robin in Tx]

I thought income taxes were assessed on net profits, not sales. Not that I'm for Obama's plan, but when he says businesses that make over $250,000, doesn't he mean actually *make* as in "earn"?

[chiguirre]

I thought income taxes were assessed on net profits, not sales. Not that I'm for Obama's plan, but when he says businesses that make over $250,000, doesn't he mean actually *make* as in "earn"?

 

That's the way we did it in my Small Business Accounting Class :D. OTOH, sales tax is, of course, on sales, but it shouldn't be part of a business' sales figures.

[Bev in B'ville]

I thought income taxes were assessed on net profits, not sales. Not that I'm for Obama's plan, but when he says businesses that make over $250,000, doesn't he mean actually *make* as in "earn"?

 

that he's talking gross profit, not net profit. Companies are taxed on gross profit, not net profit. That's certainly what Obama is referring to when he talks about the oil companies and their profits. After taking out expenses (payroll, payroll taxes, etc.) and the money oil companies put towards R&D (i.e. alternative fuel) they actually make no more money than any other big business out there.

[mommaduck]

but it's recorded to be watched later.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

What I found stunning is that McCain says he knows how to catch Bin Ladin and he can do it. Well, great. So why hasn't he done that already? Whatever.

 

astrid

 

He apparently also knows how to fix the economy and bring about energy independence. :toetap05:

 

I used to really like John McCain and watching him last night was painful.

[lynn]

He was talking about some bill and said, "You know who voted for it," and snidedly added, "you might never know." Then pointed toward Obama and said, "THAT one."

 

I actually can't wait to see the Saturday Night Live spoof on this debate. :tongue_smilie:

 

I thought it was funny. It may have shown John McCains age for my fil will say "that one" when talking about the kids and something they did.

[Robin in Tx]

Companies are taxed on net profits, not gross. Businesses are allowed to write of all their expenses, not just their COGS. The service industry doesn't even have a gross profit that differs significantly from their total income.

 

Gross income/profit might be used for measuring thresholds (the way gross income is used to measure individual thresholds for deducting medical expenses, etc.). But that is not what they pay income taxes on. At least that's not the way I learned it in my college FIT class. Maybe things have changed since then (but I doubt it)...

 

ETA: P.S. Everything I've ever read about the oil companiea posting record breaking profits this year have been about just that... profits. Net income. Not gross.

Edited October 8, 2008 by Robin in Tx

[Amy in NH]

John McCain has a long record of working with people of differing policies, Barack Obama does not.

 

I didn't get to see the debate last night, because we can't afford to have television. But I want to point out that this is just *wrong*. Barack Obama worked with many different people of all differing viewpoints first as a community organizer, at the grassroots, neighborhood level, and then as a state legislator for quite a number of years. Just because he hasn't been a Washington insider for as long as McCain doesn't mean he doesn't have experience uniting diverse people with diverse needs.

[Tammyla]

I wish there had been a "Dull" choice:001_huh:. I voted tie because it was so darn dull. Luckily, I was reading and listening.

[Amy in NH]

I like that I can keep my insurance company and get a tax break whatever it is under McCain and I like that the child tax credit will go up.

 

If you can afford to pay for it upfront. Under the McCain plan, the tax-free health insurance premiums you now enjoy will be taxable income. Find out from your employer what the total amount of your health insurance premiums is, because your taxable "income" will go up by that amount. So your taxes will go up, and you'll get a $5000 tax credit. Too bad a family plan costs around $12000/year, because that $5000 credit won't even touch it.

 

But that won't affect McCain or the rich people who support him.

 

I wonder if Medicaid will be taxable income under his plan?

 

Many people who qualify for state insurance for their children just don't apply. And many people who would qualify for a sliding scale fee premium under the state plans really can't afford it.

[kokotg]

 

I found it interesting' date=' though, that Obama did not dispute the payouts from Fannie/Freddie that he received.

 

 

[/quote']

 

Nor did McCain deny that his campaign staff is stuffed to the gills with Fannie and Freddie lobbyists.

[Kelli in TN]

In my mind, Obama.

In fact, I thought McCain was pretty rude. His comment to Tom Brokaw about who he would choose as Treasury Secretary, "Not YOU, Tom" was uncalled for and frankly, bizarre. Maybe he was buying time.

 

 

That WAS really, really weird. Really weird. I honestly thought I had mis-heard it and unfortunately we no longer have tivo so I could not back it up and listen again. I thought I was hearing things. He really said that, didn't he?

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

If you can afford to pay for it upfront. Under the McCain plan, the tax-free health insurance premiums you now enjoy will be taxable income. Find out from your employer what the total amount of your health insurance premiums is, because your taxable "income" will go up by that amount. So your taxes will go up, and you'll get a $5000 tax credit. Too bad a family plan costs around $12000/year, because that $5000 credit won't even touch it.

 

What I want to know is what happens to those people who don't make enough to qualify for the full $5000 credit?

[Camy-7 boybarians 1 lady]

This *%%***!!@@ debate makes me even madder that McCain is the Republican Presidential pick... I have not gotten over it from the day he seemed to collect enough national delegate votes. (GGGRRRR)....and believe me, I'm not the only Republican who thinks this way.

 

I thought McCain did fairly well, but I'm so sick of much of the mantra, I could just gag. McCain just doesn't have the "hutzpa" required to win this election. Don't get me wrong, he is a man of fine character and incredible life experience, but his public personna....(sigh). I've had it!

 

Obama has the charm and gifted ability to win his audience, and that is 80% of the battle! I wouldn't vote for him to save my life, yet I've got to give the Democrat Party credit for picking a guy that can give such a good appearance. (this isn't meant to say he has no other qualities, btw).

 

I hope the Republican Party sits down and has a real "talkin' to" to themselves. As a party, we need to get back to our roots, stand up for our beliefs, and stop trying to be something else.

 

There. I'm done.

 

(hey, Spycar, how's that hero Dad of yours? I can't help but think of him every now and then.)

 

Blessings,

 

Camy

[cathmom]

I thought it was a weird question to ask who they would choose as Treasury Secretary. I fully expected both candidates not to name names but they did!

[Kelli in TN]

I think I love you, Bev!;) I totally agree. The government is not responsible for people being overextended on credit and mortgages, people are. We should not bail anyone out. You got yourself into the mess, you get yourself out. And FWIW, this is spoken by someone in a mess.

 

I agree. I don't WANT to pay to buy out somebody's mortgage on their overpriced McMansion. Let them live in a normal house like mine. Let them lose their house and rent an apartment for awhile. It will be a good life lesson.

-

 

I thought that McCain answered the questions quickly and with conviction whereas Obama stumbled over words and said "uh" more times than I would have liked to hear. Many times my husband remarked, "Answer the question Obama."

 

I was actually saying that to BOTH of them many times.

 

As for the comment to Tom Brokaw, it was a joke. I am sure if Obama said it it would be, "That Obama is so witty! I'd love to have him at a dinner party." And I clearly heard McCain refer to him as Senator Obama. We all hear what we want.

 

If Mr. Obama had said that to Mr. Brokaw I would have found really weird, totally not funny and completely inappropriate. I do agree that Mr. McCain refered to his opponent as Senator Obama. The "that one" comment is being blown WAY out of proportion. He was just being sarcastic and I don't think he meant anything insulting by it and I don't think he meant any disrespect towards Mr. Obama.

 

Bottom line, no one is going to be swayed from any opinion in these threads. All these threads do, IMO, is serve to further divide us and strengthen party lines.

 

True, but if we can't discuss it here then my husband is going to have listen to all of this and he would just as soon I come get it off my chest on a message board as to follow him around the house talking about it!:D

[Bev in B'ville]

What I want to know is what happens to those people who don't make enough to qualify for the full $5000 credit?

 

from fact check: http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/07/fact-check/

 

OBAMA: Said McCain's proposal to give people a tax credit in exchange for treating employers' health insurance contributions as taxable wages amounts to "what one hand giveth, the other hand taketh away."

THE FACTS: Obama's suggestion that McCain's health care plan is a wash for families is misleading. McCain offers families a $5,000 tax credit to help them buy health insurance. The corresponding increase in taxable wages would result in a much smaller cost than the value of the tax credit, at least at first. Over time, the value of the tax credit may diminish as premiums rise. However, the Tax Policy Center estimates that McCain's plan would increase the federal deficit by $1.3 trillion over 10 years -- mainly because it would lead to less tax revenue coming in, meaning it is a true tax break overall.

 

A bi-partisan expert speaking on this matter said that overall 95% of Americans would benefit from McCain's health care reform plan.

[kokotg]

That WAS really, really weird. Really weird. I honestly thought I had mis-heard it and unfortunately we no longer have tivo so I could not back it up and listen again. I thought I was hearing things. He really said that, didn't he?

 

Yeah, his jokes fell flat all night. I didn't think the "not you, Tom" thing was rude, so much as just a very bad joke. And then someone pointed out today that the hairplugs joke was a dig at Joe Biden, which I didn't even get last night. I got the "nice to be at a townhall meeting with you" joke, and I thought that wasn't a bad bit of snark, but I doubt most people watching got it.

 

I've been interested and a bit surprised that all the polls have handed both debates decisively to Obama. Sure, I thought he won them, but I'm used to thinking that about my candidate and then being shocked when the poll results don't say the same thing. I think part of it might be the rise of instant polling--the public gets to say who won before the pundits have a chance to spin things and change perception. And then also it's probably just reflective of Obama's momentum--McCain is coming into these things on the defense.

 

My favorite moments: when McCain mocked Obama for wanting safe disposal of nuclear waste. I haven't seen polls, but I'm pretty sure most people agree with that. And when McCain declared that the grand sacrifice he's going to ask of everyone is....giving up earmarks.

 

I thought Obama was much stronger on the "sacrifice" question, but I still keep waiting for a genuinely honest answer from either of them on that--a Kennedy-esque "Ask not what your country can do for you" moment. I don't think we're going to get it, though. I guess even Kennedy waited for his inauguration to say it.

[Erica in PA]

I didn't get to see the debate last night, because we can't afford to have television. But I want to point out that this is just *wrong*. Barack Obama worked with many different people of all differing viewpoints first as a community organizer, at the grassroots, neighborhood level, and then as a state legislator for quite a number of years. Just because he hasn't been a Washington insider for as long as McCain doesn't mean he doesn't have experience uniting diverse people with diverse needs.

 

I was referring to his time in the Senate, where he has the most liberal voting record of any Senator. That doesn't put him in a good position to reach across the aisle, and he has not done so. I'm not familiar with his voting record in Illinois, so maybe someone who lives there can share whether he has compromised and worked in a bipartisan way there.... Though I do think his more recent time spent in the US Senate is very significant, regardless.

 

Erica

[Melissa in CA]

 

Wake up folks! The world is not fair' date=' nor should it be. My family has money now because we've worked hard and gotten a good education. Both my dh and myself came from poor beginnings. In my husband's case, welfare and food stamps. He managed to graduate valedictorian, get a scholarship and make something of himself. I took a more circuitous route, joining the army to pay for my college, but I, too, have managed to make something of myself. (Patting myself on the back here: A book, to which I contributed a chapter, is now sitting on my shelf. It is used in graduate studies and cost a whopping $180.) Does this mean we should bail out people who have made and continue to make poor decisions. People who (and this is 40% of people) don't pay any taxes.

 

Bottom line again: We are where we are because of the decisions we've made. Good decisions = good consequences. Bad decisions = bad consequences. I teach this to my dc every day -- and I dare say most of you do, too. The problem is that when people make a bad decision, they generally follow it up with more bad decisions, trying the quick fix method. There's no quick fix. The people who made poor decisions, took questionable loans or made questionable loans are now facing the consequences of their decisions (and, yes, I'm talking about the greed on Wall Street, too.)

 

If you didn't get to see Dave Ramsey on the Fox news show this morning, I would urge you to find his statements either on his website (daveramsey.com) or on youtube. He has a knack for putting the financial situation in a context that everyday people can understand. He said by raising taxes, we're going to take an economy that has pneumonia and is in bed already, and give it a brain tumor or cancer. Wonderful![/quote']

 

:iagree::iagree: I'm reppin' ya in spirit Bev! :D

[camibami]

It may have shown John McCains age for my fil will say "that one" when talking about the kids and something they did.

 

Yes, I think so too! My grandmother has always used "that one" to indicate which grandchild/child she is talking about (usually when they are in trouble, LOL). For about 40 years now- long as I can remember. She sadly has dementia now, and she uses it more than ever, as she truly cannot remember names at this point.

 

Rude, yes, but racist-no way.

 

I guess McCain *is* earning his "Grumpy McSame" moniker, though. He's been quite the grouch.

 

DH and I started the drinking game after the first 10 minutes, because we were so stinkin bored by the "debate". Same old, same old. I wish we could just vote tomorrow and get it all over with!

[kokotg]

I was referring to his time in the Senate, where he has the most liberal voting record of any Senator. That doesn't put him in a good position to reach across the aisle, and he has not done so.

Erica

 

Not true. Take a look at the Lugar Obama act (to keep nuclear weapons from terrorists) and the Coburn Obama act (for transparency in government)--both important bills he co-wrote with Republicans. As for most liberal voting record...depends on who you ask and what you call liberal. I believe the organizations that called him "most liberal" counted his ethics reform votes as liberal. If you want to call ethics reform a liberal cause, then you're welcome to :)

[Brigitte]

I also thought that McCain's assumption that most people had never heard of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac was insulting.

 

Insulting to some, but I would be willing to bet true to a certain extent before all this mess of late.

[cathmom]

Insulting to some, but I would be willing to bet true to a certain extent before all this mess of late.

 

Maybe the same people who didn't understand the word "adjustable"??

[LisaKinVA]

The comment I made that made me LOL was one by Obama...

 

it was where he was talking about how he "went to Wall Street and told them that they needed more regulation."

 

Yeah, that's going to have a productive result...

 

I'm also less than impressed about his "sending letters" to Secty. Paulson, etc.

 

The man has sponsored over a hundred pieces of legislation, and co-sponsored many more -- but the BEST he could come up with the mortgage mess was a LETTER and a good "talking to." :confused:

 

I was. umm. underwhelmed.

 

I've said all along that what McCain did was probably too little too late in 2006 to have any effect at all on the current situation -- but at the very least he had his name on a piece of legislation and a speech on the Congressional Record.

[danielle]

McCain's demeanor doesn't even acknowledge Obama as a person. He doesn't look at Obama, never speaks to him, gets in all the personal attacks he can, and now doesn't even accord Obama the politeness of using his name. "That one" is an insult when addressing a colleague. How would you interpret it if you were at a meeting where you were well known to the speaker and he/she referred to you as "that one"?

 

Crude, socially inept, patronizing. But then, that's the behavior of the last four years. No maverick there.

Danielle

[nmoira]

 

My favorite moments: when McCain mocked Obama for wanting safe disposal of nuclear waste. I haven't seen polls, but I'm pretty sure most people agree with that.

That was something of a Homer Simpson moment.

[Guest Katia]

I haven't read most of these responses, but as an undecided independent voter that thought McCain won the first debate, I have to say McCain was simply disgusting in this second debate. I was very disappointed in him and would certainly not want to see the leader of America acting like this with foreign dignitaries, kwim?

 

Obama won it. Convincingly. He was controlled, smooth, actually answered the questions and didn't go into attack mode. I loved how he looked at McCain as McCain spoke and he seemed to give credence to all McCain said. He was respectful.

 

Not so McCain.

 

I was so sure I was voting 3rd party. Now......I'm once again undecided. Obama was simply terrific!

[cathmom]

Obama did not answer all the questions. He just seemed like he did.

[Donna T.]

Obama did not answer all the questions. He just seemed like he did.

 

 

:iagree:

 

There were many questions that neither candidate gave a straight answer to. There were some that they didn't give ANY answer to. It was disappointing. But, overall, I think Obama won the debate. He was polished. He came across as well informed and thoughtful. He has a knack for being serious when seriousness is called for and funny when that is called for. He seems appropriate. I don't support every idea or proposal that he puts out there, but I think he represents himself and his views very well.

 

To me, McCain seemed very insincere. I honestly don't believe anything the man says. I don't trust him and that probably colored my response to the poll question. I can't get past his choice of Palin. I'm trying. I am. But, it seems like the two of them just want to take on the world. Us vs. Them. All the time. For me, it's still about foreign policy. And, I just can't sleep well at night thinking that my fate is in the hands of McCain and Palin.

 

Palin Misquotes Albright: Place In Hell Reserved for Women Who Don't Support Other

Women

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/05/palin-misquotes-albright_n_131967.html?view=screen

 

I've really tried to bond with Palin. But, this constant black and white attitude of hers (which I believe McCain shares) concerns me. This quote is just weird. Women are diverse. Duh. I am a woman (and a Republican). I don't support Palin. So, she thinks it is funny to make a joke out of my future place in eternity? Weird. Inappropriate.

 

Sorry if I'm getting beyond the bounds of this conversation.

 

Blessings All.

Edited October 8, 2008 by Donna T.

[NevadaRabbit]

Barack Obama worked with many different people of all differing viewpoints first as a community organizer, at the grassroots, neighborhood level, and then as a state legislator for quite a number of years. Just because he hasn't been a Washington insider for as long as McCain doesn't mean he doesn't have experience uniting diverse people with diverse needs.

 

Obviously we can't know the gory details of his work as a community organizer, but the fruits of his labors are much less than impressive:

 

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/06/27/grim_proving_ground_for_obamas_housing_policy/

 

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/09/obama_and_south_chicago_slum_d.html

[LisaKinVA]

Palin Misquotes Albright

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/05/palin-misquotes-albright_n_131967.html?view=screen

 

I've really tried to bond with Palin. But, this constant black and white attitude of hers (which I believe McCain shares) concerns me. This quote is just weird. Women are diverse. Duh. I am a woman (and a Republican). I don't support Palin. So, she thinks it is funny to make a joke out of my future place in eternity? Weird. Inappropriate.

 

 

 

FWIW, she got the quote off of a Starbucks cup -- and thought it was worth repeating.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

FWIW, she got the quote off of a Starbucks cup -- and thought it was worth repeating.

 

Yeah :lol::lol::lol: What a joke!

 

And I thought she was Joe Six Pack this week- not Starbucks Mocha Latte.

[nmoira]

FWIW, she got the quote off of a Starbucks cup -- and thought it was worth repeating.

What, Starbucks cups don't provide context and analysis? Sheesh.

[NevadaRabbit]

This *%%***!!@@ debate makes me even madder that McCain is the Republican Presidential pick....and believe me, I'm not the only Republican who thinks this way.

 

I thought McCain did fairly well, but I'm so sick of much of the mantra, I could just gag. McCain just doesn't have the "hutzpa" required to win this election. Don't get me wrong, he is a man of fine character and incredible life experience, but his public personna....(sigh). I've had it!

 

Obama has the charm and gifted ability to win his audience, and that is 80% of the battle! I wouldn't vote for him to save my life, yet I've got to give the Democrat Party credit for picking a guy that can give such a good appearance. (this isn't meant to say he has no other qualities, btw).

 

I hope the Republican Party sits down and has a real "talkin' to" to themselves. As a party, we need to get back to our roots, stand up for our beliefs, and stop trying to be something else.

 

 

 

Camy - I am right there with ya. Obama has the gift of speaking, and little else. McCain has character and heroic experience and little else. I'm a far-right conservative and I am really, really disappointed in my party's nominee. His plan to buy out mortgages left me absolutely gobsmacked.

 

I'll vote McCain as a vote against Obama, and about the only thing remaining in the "pro" column for McCain is that I want someone more conservative than Obama appointing judges.

[laylamcb]

I'd like half a McCain and half an Obama, please. :blink: I don't want one whole of either. Strangely, and apparently contrary to popular belief, I thought McCain did MUCH better tonight than in the last debate--and I'm not sure why. He dropped that whole "he just doesn't understand" schtick, which I found terribly insulting and irritating. But I think that his natural warmth and compassion came through much better in this "town hall" format, whereas Obama comes across as more emotionally aloof in this type of setting. Again, I gravitate more to the latter than the former style, but I thought that McCain was much more in his element here.

 

At the same time, don't you just want to THROTTLE these guys sometimes? Whenever issues like social security, Medicare, and sacrifice come up, I kinda just want to zap them. But I guess that neither one is going to "go there": You simply cannot tell Americans the truth about these issues, for which I say, Shame on us.

 

The notion that these entitlement programs are broken and that the ONLY fixes are reduced benefits (at a later age) and increased taxes? Nope. Not going to go there.

 

The notion that our national Venti Caramel Macchiato Culture is just OVER, and that now we're going to have to go Taster's Choice? Nope. Instead, big bad Washington is going to need to eliminate earmarks. Oh--and young people need to consider the Peace Corps.

 

And finally, the notion that this lovely platform of initiatives that my aides and I drew up over the past year is utterly obselete and laughable in the face of what we the candidates have called the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression? Nope. Gonna give you tax cuts--and energy initiatives, health care, and social security reform simultaneously--with a spending freeze! Whoopee! That's sacrificin', American-style!

 

Exactly HOW stupid do they think we are? Or maybe the question should be, Exactly how stupid ARE we?? :001_huh:

 

I won't even start in on foreign policy; I wouldn't be able to stop. Grrrr....

 

So. Debate winner: Slight edge to Obama. This one wasn't a game changer--not even for those who were able to keep from falling asleep long enough to listen to the whole of it. :001_smile:

[NevadaRabbit]

I had to turn it off after a while. It was like watching an old married couple fight. They said the same things over and over :glare:

 

If Tom Brokaw had actually moderated the debate, he would have shut them up for the bickering and repeating and reminded them to answer the question! I had to stop watching for a while (it's on the dvr) because I was so sick of them both saying "well he voted 637 times to screw America" then the other one comes back saying "well he voted 638 times to screw America so I'm obviously the better choice."

[ma23peas]

1. I'd have never heard of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac if my mother was not a mortgage lender (and a reputable one who curses those Countrywide types)

 

2. McCain has a more intimate relationship with Tom Brokaw because he's been interviewed by him on many occasions over a 30 span, I allow jokes like that and they don't freak me out..I don't know if they have an inside joke about who pays for the last dinner out...doesn't bother me though.

 

3. I really felt like it was a draw...those who liked Obama preferred him and vice versa for McCain...the issue is about POLICIES!! If you agree with Obama's policies then you want him to promote those, I agree with almost NONE of his policies and wanted McCain to elaborate on how his policies would mean LESS government and REDUCED spending...I felt he answered that..it's really plain and simple...you either want MORE government control or LESS...

 

Obama is MORE...McCain is LESS...why must we put all our opinions about their stuttering, their uhm's ah's, not answering questions, babbling on and on..other stuff that really just speaks to them being human rather than what they represent...I respect both of them as men willing to sacrifice a lot for our country, but I choose my leader based on where they want to lead rather than how.

 

Tara

[Doran]

...to listen to these debates rather than to watch them. We don't have t.v. reception, so for the VP debate and last night's Prez debate, I've tuned into a radio broadcast.

 

The overuse of (1) "My friends" and (2) "You know" were definitely noted here. I thought McCain's tone sounded just a tad desperate, interestingly - which is merely an observation, not a proclamation. But, my overall take on last night was that I was not terribly impressed by either candidate. I turned off the radio before they were finished.

 

I keep hoping that I'll be bowled over (some year), that I'll trust what a candidate has to say, that I'll be convinced that they have more than a scripted speech and talking points to offer. I already know how I'll be voting in this election, so I'm not a prime candidate for choosing who won or lost the debate. I guess I wish I could have greater confidence in our country's leaders (or would be leaders), in general. In other areas of my life, I am so much more optimistic, but this one continues to make me cynical. :001_huh:

[laylamcb]

His plan to buy out mortgages left me absolutely gobsmacked.

 

 

 

Yeah. About that. Y'know, it's not a half bad idea.

 

That is to say, it really stinks to be the responsible, fixed-rate, 30-year mortgage holder having to bail out what in many cases are investors, non-credit-worthy individuals, and just-plain-greedy yuppies. But I think we can all agree that falling home values hurt ALL OF US. And I'll bet it'd cost a heck of a lot less than $700B to restructure every one of those mortgages.

 

INSTEAD what we'll do is spend all of this money at the top first in the vain hope that it will trickle down to us thirsty saps at the bottom, home values will continue to plummet until those of us who bought (and have paid and paid) responsibly are now ALSO paying more on a mortgage than our homes are worth, and only THEN will we restructure the bad loans. Will OUR homes be eligible for revalue and our mortgages for restructure? I mean, after all, we'll be restructuring and revaluing with our own tax money, right? I'd be prepared to bet what's left of DH's 457 that we won't be eligible.

 

Unless of course we first declare bankruptcy and stop making the payments on our house.

 

Double grrrr!

[lovemyboys]

FWIW, she got the quote off of a Starbucks cup -- and thought it was worth repeating.

 

If I heard Albright's rebuttal correctly, it sounded like she was chastising Palin for using the word "help" instead of "support" or vice versa. And then talking about factual inaccuracy. Is it just me or does that sound pretty meager?

[Kelli in TN]

Yeah. About that. Y'know, it's not a half bad idea.

 

That is to say, it really stinks to be the responsible, fixed-rate, 30-year mortgage holder having to bail out what in many cases are investors, non-credit-worthy individuals, and just-plain-greedy yuppies. But I think we can all agree that falling home values hurt ALL OF US. And I'll bet it'd cost a heck of a lot less than $700B to restructure every one of those mortgages.

 

!

 

I just don't think I want to bail out people who could not be satisfied with a modest home but had to have a McMansion. We are not talking about people losing their homes and living in cardboard boxes. We are talking about people who bought more house than they could really afford and now would be forced to move out and rent somewhere. It could be a good life lesson.

[laylamcb]

I just don't think I want to bail out people who could not be satisfied with a modest home but had to have a McMansion. We are not talking about people losing their homes and living in cardboard boxes. We are talking about people who bought more house than they could really afford and now would be forced to move out and rent somewhere. It could be a good life lesson.

 

Totally hear you, Kelli--and totally agree. I think that we ALL feel that way. But the reality is that those subprime mortgages and resultant crashing home values seriously affect every one of us, which makes me as mad as a wet hen. But there it is. I just sort of wish that perhaps we could've entertained this bright new idea BEFORE handing the reins and our checkbooks over to Paulson.... :glare:

[Kelli in TN]

...

The overuse of (1) "My friends" :

 

 

Hey, that was my drinking word!! Everytime he said it I raised my arm and yelled "opa" (from My Big Fat Greek Wedding). Unfortunately all I had to drink was Earl Gray tea.:glare: