Making the Big Decision - How did you do it?

[swimmermom3]

We have eliminated four schools from ds's list of acceptances and are left with four schools.

 

No remaining school is a "perfect" fit.

 

What process have you used or are using when the choice isn't obvious?

 

I started with affordability. 

 

The most affordable school, meaning we could do it without loans, without my returning to work, and by tightening the budget, has an attractive campus, decent, but somewhat limited academics for what ds wants to do, sailing, and is in a very affluent area (not really sure if this is a positive).  The merit aid is terrific, but if for some reason he lost it, the school would be very expensive. Sailor Dude also didn't really feel the "love," even though it's about 30 minutes from a major city and excellent internship opportunities. This school slipped to fifth.

 

The remaining four schools aren't affordable without my returning to work and I have no clue what that is going to look like.  The various amounts of merit scholarships and grants all shake out to make them relatively close in price.  However, one school's merit scholarship has no strings attached. The student is guaranteed the money all four years.  This makes it the most affordable in my eyes when I look at worst case scenarios financially - like losing merit aid and if it's recoverable.

 

I am working my way through the academics and my son's reactions to the campuses and the student body, his interactions with professors, the administration, location, and access to extracurricular activities that increase quality of life.

 

 

[regentrude]

For DD, it came down to the choice between two good options. The deciding factors were the difference in cost and also the ease of travel to the school:

6.5 hours by car/2 hours car+5 hours train vs 2 hours drive to the airport and two legs of air travel

[8filltheheart]

Lisa, have you run NPC or called FA offices to ask them how your grants will be impacted by $X income by your returning to work? That is a very real concern. You might return to work and find out that it did not make the schools affordable, but simply makes them less so.

 

Fwiw, we look at all 4 yrs, opportunities for research outside of regular class, co-ops, willingness to work with student entering at unusual levels, ability to double major/switch concentrations, housing, etc.

[Carol in Cal.]

For us, ultimately, it was driven by DD's absolute passion for the college she wanted to attend, and the fact that she got a significant and supposedly unavailable scholarship there and a GREAT DEAL of encouragement from the faculty, including the admissions officer who had taken a very personal interest in her, and the department chair who he insisted on introducing us to during our campus visit. 

 

I would have preferred that she attend one of the higher ranked schools she got into, and got a more general undergrad education.  However, she has a well-rounded background already, something I had insisted on through high school, and I ultimately decided that the decision to be more specific in college was hers to make. 

 

We are spending more than I had planned on for this, but the scholarship helped make that palatable.  Also I required that DD contribute the standard student loan amount each year--this has been extremely effective in motivating her to value her education and also to find paying work.  She does not want to graduate with any student loans, and is paying ahead on them.  I think without this skin in the game, she would have taken our fairly significant sacrifices to pay for this fairly impractical college education for granted.

 

 

Edited April 7, 2016 by Carol in Cal.

[JennW in SoCal]

Lisa, have you run NPC or called FA offices to ask them how your grants will be impacted by $X income by your returning to work? That is a very real concern. You might return to work and find out that it did not make the schools affordable, but simply makes them less so.

 

Fwiw, we look at all 4 yrs, opportunities for research outside of regular class, co-ops, willingness to work with student entering at unusual levels, ability to double major/switch concentrations, housing, etc.

:iagree:   

 

I am otherwise of zero use to you in making this decision as I am of course biased about which school the Dude should choose. :coolgleamA:  (Though I totally see the excellent points of the schools where shades won't be needed most of the year.)  See?  Zero use!   

[Joules]

The ultimate decider here was where he "felt" most comfortable.  There were lots of "facts" about which college would be the best for this or that, and they were considered, but he felt like he belonged in one place more than the others.  (This is once we narrowed it down to 3 affordable, practical options.  There are other schools that felt good, but he either wasn't accepted or they weren't manageable.)

[justasque]

We found a tour of the Accepted Student Days at each school gave us a more in-depth look at each school, and helped each dc (and us) decide where seemed to be the best fit. Looking closely at the specific department and the specific curriculum at each school helped quite a bit.  We also looked at the instructors, the student peers, and the extracurricular opportunities.  Interestingly, in one case our 1, 2, 3 schools before the visits became the 3, 2, 1 schools after.  

[Hoggirl]

Are you making the decision? I was a little unsure based on some of your wording.

 

When my ds narrowed it down to three choices, he crafted some sort of a spreadsheet with a weighting system. He listed all relevant factors but assigned different weights depending on how important that factor was. I'm not exactly sure how he did it, but I know there many factors that he put on it.

 

We discussed issues at length, but the decision was his to make. If you are uncomfortable with some of choices because of cost concerns either now or in the future (for whatever reasons), I'd remove them from consideration.

[creekland]

My guys all decided on their own.  My only limitation was it had to be affordable.  Beyond that, they got to pick.  I figured it's their life... We could buy any t-shirt.   :coolgleamA:

 

 

[bettyandbob]

Finances didn't go into the final decision for dd, because she only applied to schools she knew would be fine financially.

 

Dd is pretty narrowly focused on going to graduate professional program. So for her it came down to which schools made getting all the requirements for her particular grad school goal easiest.

[FaithManor]

For dd, a lot was finances. She applied 12 places, and Cedarville was her first choice. She ended up with about half in scholarships, but since we didn't get financial aid, and our 529 had totally tanked when the housing bubble burst so that it was worth less than we every put in it to begin with, AND she was personally adamantly opposed to student loans over the federally backed ones, she rejected them and went with U of MI in Ann Arbor because she could live with my aunt. She already had her EMT license so could pick up per diem work, and without room and board, scholarships and EMT work covered tuition and fees. We paid for books, and gas and insurance for her car.

 

For ds, his first choice was Alma College, and again he earned a half ride plus the Christian leadership scholarship. He really liked the school, but he didn't love it so much more than U of MI that he was willing to go into significant debt for it either. He also was permanently injured right before his senior year commenced in a terrible car accident, and one thing we noticed about college visits in the winter, Alma did not do a good job of plowing, shoveling, salting, and keeping their handicap accessibility very accessible in winter. This worried him a lot. He actually ended up talking it over with main campus, and they agreed that with his medical situation in which he would need to continue working with his medical team at home during his freshman year, he should begin at the Flint extension campus, and then later when he exited physical therapy and the second surgery was done and he was healed, he could finish at Ann Arbor. The transfer of admission from one campus to the other was flawless, easy, and well coordinated, his scholarship transferred as well, and he is flourishing in Flint, and has a driver and golf cart available to him any time he wants it. They maintain the campus very, very well. He's never walked with his cane even one time on icy sidewalks or had an elevator out of commission. They've been soooo good for him. The campus is 1.5 hours from home, and the fun for us is that it is close enough that we've been able to be quite involved on campus. Yay for us and especially me because I love college environments!

 

Middle ds chose not on finances, though that was definitely a consideration, but on the quality of the program which meant it came down to Environmental Science at U of Rochester and Freshwater Science and Sustainability at Western Michigan University though to be fair U of Wisconsin at Milwaukee probably should have been in the final, however for what ever reason, he simply didn't "bond" with that campus, never felt good about going there yet their program is very good. U of Rochester had two dings, though he got good merit aid, without financial aid as well, it was going to be REALLY hard for us to afford it. Not impossible, but darn tough. However, it was the second ding...not having all of the Great Lakes research options that he wanted that combined with the financial aspect caused him to decline their offer. Western won for its very unique program, and I have to admit that having a no interest payment plan where we can put our EFC plus the gap on a monthly budgeted payment was very attractive to us.

 

 

[swimmermom3]

Lisa, have you run NPC or called FA offices to ask them how your grants will be impacted by $X income by your returning to work? That is a very real concern. You might return to work and find out that it did not make the schools affordable, but simply makes them less so.

 

Fwiw, we look at all 4 yrs, opportunities for research outside of regular class, co-ops, willingness to work with student entering at unusual levels, ability to double major/switch concentrations, housing, etc.

 

We have actually talked with two of the schools about what would happen if I worked.  An LAC told us they usually leave grants in place unless the family's finances took a sharp downturn. In that case, they would adjust accordingly.  For the probably top choice, we gave the admissions counselor a potential figure for earnings and the outcome would be to lose the grant. 

 

To make things a bit trickier to compare, that school also makes the best use of ds's AP credits, which would allow him to finish in 3.5 years. It also has a fifth year masters program that cuts about a semester off of the final time.  Finishing with a BA/MA in four years has a certain economic value. :tongue_smilie:

 

My head hurts. 

 

Our original goal was to use current earnings, a bit of savings, along with merit to pay for school. Given ds's choices, we are seriously considering requiring him to have more skin in the game than his summer earnings.  The no loans for us and no tapping retirement funds rules still hold.

 

[Matryoshka]

I was thinking about posting the same kind of topic.  Neither of the two schools that are affordable are perfect fits - although they'd both be very good, they just each have different pro's and con's.  I just sent off an appeal today to a third school that I think would be her top pick if finances weren't an issue.  I have absolutely no idea if they'll do anything helpful, and at that school she'd have to take out loans even if they met our EFC - but since she should be able to pay most of them off by graduation through their coop program, figured it couldn't hurt to at least ask.  We're visiting one of the affordable schools this weekend; they gave her a full tuition scholarship but are one of the only schools not to invite her to their honors program - I think it's because she was supposed to submit an extra teacher recommendation to be considered for it, but that wasn't clear to her on the Common App.  We're going to ask about it this weekend.  That's important as they have an accelerated program in her major for honors students that she'd definitely want to be in.  The third school also has a great coop program, and honors, but it's got a city campus that she really doesn't like.

 

We have ruled out all the schools that are not affordable at all.

 

I'm becoming more and more grateful that dd's twin sister applied to just one school that's a good fit, she got into, and is affordable.  I think if I had to agonize over two kids' choices at the same time I might be having a nervous breakdown by now...

[swimmermom3]

For DD, it came down to the choice between two good options. The deciding factors were the difference in cost and also the ease of travel to the school:

6.5 hours by car/2 hours car+5 hours train vs 2 hours drive to the airport and two legs of air travel

 

I wish it was this straight-forward here.  With regards to travel, I think dh has been planning on sacrificing air miles since this particular child started high school. We knew the likelihood of him choosing a school near home was next to zero. 

 

[Garga]

Lisa, have you run NPC or called FA offices to ask them how your grants will be impacted by $X income by your returning to work? That is a very real concern. You might return to work and find out that it did not make the schools affordable, but simply makes them less so.

 

Fwiw, we look at all 4 yrs, opportunities for research outside of regular class, co-ops, willingness to work with student entering at unusual levels, ability to double major/switch concentrations, housing, etc.

 

 

Oh, goodness gracious!  I can't tell you how much I hate this side of college.  The more you make, the less you can afford it, but the only reason you're working is so that you can afford it, but since you're working, you now can't afford it.  ARGH!

[katilac]

 However, one school's merit scholarship has no strings attached. The student is guaranteed the money all four years.   

 

This was a huge factor for us. dd actually can lose the scholarship at her school, but that is much more in her control than financial aid, plus the requirements are high but reasonable, and they usually give a probationary semester as needed. Our decision was easier, bc the we did have a big difference in price, but merit aid over financial aid was the best case scenario all along. 

 

At the current #5 school, is it full merit aid as opposed to financial aid? If so, how onerous are the scholarship requirements? Is there a grace period or appeals process? I'd be taking another long, hard look at them. There's nothing wrong with making affordability a big factor. Are they too far away to visit again? 

 

We had a lot of talks with dd about affordability as a factor. We might be able to swing a more expensive school, but that means all the money is going to that and there is nothing left for special experiences or grad school. It also might mean she has to take loans, or has to take a less desirable job (in school) because it pays more. 

 

You say that you don't know what going back to work would look like. Do you know that you could make enough money to pay for the more expensive schools? 

[JanetC]

Oh, goodness gracious! I can't tell you how much I hate this side of college. The more you make, the less you can afford it, but the only reason you're working is so that you can afford it, but since you're working, you now can't afford it. ARGH!

With prior-prior year, income you earn after January 1st of your last college students' sophomore year will no longer count against you for financial aid purposes at a FAFSA school. (PROFILE schools will continue to ask for whatever they want and dig as deep as they want, so no rule of thumb there.) You will still have to report assets on the day you file your FAFSA so immediately put your extra income into paying off a loan or something, but your income is "safe".

[Nan in Mass]

Lisa, try to remember that if you are having trouble choosing, probably any of the choices would be fine.  One might turn out to have been better when you look back, but looking forward, you just have to do the best you can.

 

Hugs,

Nan

[swimmermom3]

Lisa, try to remember that if you are having trouble choosing, probably any of the choices would be fine.  One might turn out to have been better when you look back, but looking forward, you just have to do the best you can.

 

Hugs,

Nan

 

Thanks, Nan. :grouphug:

 

The hard part right now is that the number one choice feels made for him with regards to the program (which we've spent days going over in minute detail) and the environment. The financial aspect will stretch each of us in the equation a bit further than we had anticipated.  We are attempting to weigh out the value of that stretch.

 

[clementine]

I guess, if we were in your shoes, we would narrow it down to the favorite and the one with 'no-strings' merit aid.  

 

If there was very little difference in his preference, I would lean toward the latter.  Not to anticipate him losing merit aid at school #1, but if he did, would you have to go back to work also?  

[Nan in Mass]

You know, Lisa, myexperience tells me that if scholarships are involved, it would be wise to pick the one with the lowest gpa requirement. All three of mine have had bad semesters when life happened - flu, girlfriends, family deaths, unmotivated sophomore years ...

 

Nan

[Grantmom]

Thanks, Nan. :grouphug:

 

The hard part right now is that the number one choice feels made for him with regards to the program (which we've spent days going over in minute detail) and the environment. The financial aspect will stretch each of us in the equation a bit further than we had anticipated.  We are attempting to weigh out the value of that stretch.

 

 

I have no advice, just wanted to say this is what I think will be the hardest part too!  Thinking ahead, I am trying to keep in mind everyone's advice to really look long and hard at finances, and not to go into debt, etc.  But what if the first choice feels like the perfect fit, but would be a big stretch financially?  I don't know.

 

To be honest, I hadn't thought about how going back to work would impact our financial aid package.  That is a big deal.  I am going to have to rethink the plan.  That had been my plan all along, to start working more once the first kid was in college, but now, yikes.  

[8filltheheart]

I have no advice, just wanted to say this is what I think will be the hardest part too!  Thinking ahead, I am trying to keep in mind everyone's advice to really look long and hard at finances, and not to go into debt, etc.  But what if the first choice feels like the perfect fit, but would be a big stretch financially?  I don't know.

 

To be honest, I hadn't thought about how going back to work would impact our financial aid package.  That is a big deal.  I am going to have to rethink the plan.  That had been my plan all along, to start working more once the first kid was in college, but now, yikes.  

 

There are very, very few fields where where you earned your UG degree really makes that big of an impact.  If a program is a big stretch financially, how will that impact the stress of attending school?   What if work study or working during school impacts the ability to do UG research or internships, etc?  

[FaithManor]

There are very, very few fields where where you earned your UG degree really makes that big of an impact.  If a program is a big stretch financially, how will that impact the stress of attending school?   What if work study or working during school impacts the ability to do UG research or internships, etc?  

I agree with this very much. I know a young lady right now that missed out on several opportunities this year to do important things in her major because of the demands of the job that she is keeping to try to get out without much debt. She is exhausted, and frankly, if this goes on for three more years, her peers will be a lot further ahead getting into grad school or their first career positions because they have these experiences, and she does not. Her stress level is very high.

 

Her parents are beginning to realize the negative impact the financial situation is having on her. They don't have any more money to contribute at this point, so the two younger children are going to be homeschooled by grandma - a retire middle school teacher - and the mom is going back to work. Nearly her entire paycheck is now being sent to the college to pre-pay on next year's bill. She had had a much, much larger scholarship to a different school that was good, very good. But it wasn't the "perfect fit" so to speak. I think they are all kind of wishing that maybe while fit is important, it wasn't the only consideration or most important consideration either.

 

I am a big fan of students attending a good fit college for them. However, I think part and parcel of this is the student being flexible and adventurous enough to be willing to embrace a variety of schools, dig in, find a niche, and not be determined to go to only one specific school,  or have a very narrow view of what could be a good fit. What is that old phrase, "Bloom where you are planted?" There needs to be a little bit of that in the equation too.

[anne1456]

Also don't forget that at most schools tuition (and other expenses) go up every year. If you are financially stretched to the max freshman year what happens when tuition increases? We had to borrow money from my mom because we forgot to account for this with my oldest.

[shanvan]

Also don't forget that at most schools tuition (and other expenses) go up every year. If you are financially stretched to the max freshman year what happens when tuition increases? We had to borrow money from my mom because we forgot to account for this with my oldest.

This is what we are investigating currently and I think projected increases (plus the fact that 2 outside scholarships are only good for the first 2 years) make the best school just out of reach without loans.  So now the questions we are asking ourselves: Are loans worth it? Does the better school truly provide more opportunities?  How will struggling to pay tuition affect Ds's ability to do well?  Can he realistically work while attending? What would happen if Dh were to lose his job?

 

And what direction Ds decides to take for future employment greatly affects his school choice.  And who can really predict that? The decision is so much more difficult than I anticipated. I am at the point of going to one of the colleges to see if they can come up with any more money to make it more affordable.

 

Then I also think it could be possible to find different scholarships for the final 2 years, but that is not a certainty.

 

And now I need to stop thinking about it all for at least half a day!   

[Hoggirl]

There are very, very few fields where where you earned your UG degree really makes that big of an impact. If a program is a big stretch financially, how will that impact the stress of attending school? What if work study or working during school impacts the ability to do UG research or internships, etc?

While I do tend to agree with this for the most part, I will say that the *location* of a school can be impactful with regard to opportunities. OP's ds is interested in IR. Being in DC could provide much more access to opportunities in the field than being somewhere else. Being there could potentially give her ds the chance to get a paid internship that ties in with his degree. In other words, he might be able to do something more relevant to his intended career path instead of on-campus work-study. Those opportunities aren't going to be available, say, in the rural Midwest.

[creekland]

School choice can matter for some majors/professions/research opportunities, but it often matters less than some think it does, esp among comparative schools.

 

For anyone wanting to read Onion's take on it:

 

http://www.theonion.com/article/high-school-student-taking-rejection-from-first-ch-38476

 

:lol:

[swimmermom3]

I have no advice, just wanted to say this is what I think will be the hardest part too!  Thinking ahead, I am trying to keep in mind everyone's advice to really look long and hard at finances, and not to go into debt, etc.  But what if the first choice feels like the perfect fit, but would be a big stretch financially?  I don't know.

 

To be honest, I hadn't thought about how going back to work would impact our financial aid package.  That is a big deal.  I am going to have to rethink the plan.  That had been my plan all along, to start working more once the first kid was in college, but now, yikes.  

 

I think about it, but am not sure why, if that makes sense.  Sailor Dude is my youngest child. It was always the plan for me to go back to work when he was done with high school.  The last few years have been a bit too reclusive for me with homeschooling and working with the older two kids' depression.  I am ready for this next phase. I just don't know exactly what shape it will take. 

 

Aid is given for those who have need, right?  I would expect that with a second income, that we would lose aid.  Perhaps my viewpoint is naive, but it would feel weird to sit at home so ds could collect more financial aid.  That would mean that perhaps someone else who does not have the option of a second job could be denied aid.

 

:tongue_smilie:

[Nan in Mass]

Thanks, Nan. :grouphug:

 

The hard part right now is that the number one choice feels made for him with regards to the program (which we've spent days going over in minute detail) and the environment. The financial aspect will stretch each of us in the equation a bit further than we had anticipated. We are attempting to weigh out the value of that stretch.

 

I know this isn,t a popular view here, but we did the research and made that stretch with all three of our children to send them to that best fit school. So far, we have been grateful we did. It has made a difference when it came to job opportunity, ability to do the job well once hired, and most important of all, ability to stay in school and not drop out. I can,t at all judge for your family, Lisa, and it is probably true that for some degrees it doesn,t matter. I hesitate even to post this, for fear of appearing to push you one way or the other when I am in no position to tell. I am posting it anyway because so many are posting the other way. Money isn,t everything and there is (I am beginning to sound like a broken record lol) some space between truly-unmanageable-amount-of-debt and easily-affordable. It isn,t a place people discuss, especially here. When you land there, it is tricky to decide what to do.

 

Nan

[Nan in Mass]

Oh, and I agree about the sitting on the sofa not making the world a better place for us all. I hope you find something deeply satisfying to do. You deserve it. : )

 

Nan

[Grantmom]

I think it is good to hear from all perspectives, which is what I like about this board.  Thanks for adding that to the discussion, Nan.  I think they are all valid points.  :)

[swimmermom3]

While I do tend to agree with this for the most part, I will say that the *location* of a school can be impactful with regard to opportunities. OP's ds is interested in IR. Being in DC could provide much more access to opportunities in the field than being somewhere else. Being there could potentially give her ds the chance to get a paid internship that ties in with his degree. In other words, he might be able to do something more relevant to his intended career path instead of on-campus work-study. Those opportunities aren't going to be available, say, in the rural Midwest.

 

I had previously been of the opinion that it doesn't really matter where you do your undergraduate work - until we did this tour.

 

Ds can be a bit reserved and we literally watched him "bloom" in DC.  Through good luck and my dh's high school and college acquaintances, ds was able to talk to someone who works in conflict resolution for the IMF, have dinner with a former ambassador, speak with someone high up in an international aid organization who has spent a great deal of time in terrifying places, and reassure someone from the Library of Congress, that yes, people really are using the new app their group designed. 

 

The internship situation is important. Study abroad programs can cater to majors, whereas one of the schools ds looked at had study abroad, but acknowledged that programs offered didn't always translate to applying towards the major.  I was left with the feeling that ds could just travel abroad on his own over the summer to accomplish the same thing, cultural understanding.

 

 

 

[Grantmom]

Lots to think about.  Good luck!  It is a hard decision, but I am sure you all will  make the right one!  Keep us posted!

[FaithManor]

 

Aid is given for those who have need, right?  I would expect that with a second income, that we would lose aid.  Perhaps my viewpoint is naive, but it would feel weird to sit at home so ds could collect more financial aid.  That would mean that perhaps someone else who does not have the option of a second job could be denied aid.

 

:tongue_smilie:

And the cut off income at which one is phased out of "need" isn't all that high when one considers the price of college, so for a family like ours, we weren't getting any aid to begin with and our EFC doesn't go down, they just expect us to pay more and more and more each year with no additional help. So the only answer is to increase income or increase debt.

[kewb]

Now that you have all been with me for ds disappointment that financial aid for first pic isn't happening I am finding this thread to be helpful.

Now ds is going back and forth with the two contenders. Both 3 hours away in opposite directions. Both have their plus and minus columns. In all honesty either choice would be a good fit but one is definitely a slightly better fit then the other. At least to his father and I. He needs to make the choice but he seems afraid to choose. Commiting to that next step is scary stuff.

[swimmermom3]

And the cut off income at which one is phased out of "need" isn't all that high when one considers the price of college, so for a family like ours, we weren't getting any aid to begin with and our EFC doesn't go down, they just expect us to pay more and more and more each year with no additional help. So the only answer is to increase income or increase debt.

 

I suspect you are in the same weird spot that we are in.

 

For ds to go to the state university that dh and I both attended, we would be full pay and it would be about 30% of take home.  There would be no merit as the GPA minimum is 3.85, I believe.

 

Schools whose COA are twice as much offer merit and sometimes grants that match the price of the state school.  The only true "safety" is the state university 20 minutes from us that doesn't really address his major and where he could live at home. He'd have an undergraduate degree, but I doubt it would take him where he wants to go.  We'd be prudent, but to what end?

 

We don't want the debt,so increasing income seems to be the answer.  One of ds's top choices offers a tuition freeze, but at their rate, it's a bit laughable. It just helps with planning.

 

[shanvan]

Now that you have all been with me for ds disappointment that financial aid for first pic isn't happening I am finding this thread to be helpful.

Now ds is going back and forth with the two contenders. Both 3 hours away in opposite directions. Both have their plus and minus columns. In all honesty either choice would be a good fit but one is definitely a slightly better fit then the other. At least to his father and I. He needs to make the choice but he seems afraid to choose. Commiting to that next step is scary stuff.

We are down to 2 as well and somewhat like Lisa, the state u that is very convenient only sort of addresses Ds's interests, but does not offer the same resources that the more expensive option does.  However, they offer just enough to make me wonder if Ds can make it do.  Having no debt is attractive, as is the ability to pretty much keep things at status quo for the rest of the family.  

 

And then the state school also has him in their honors program which allows him to travel for short term study abroad at no cost.  That is very nice, but I'm not sure it outweighs all the practical skills Ds can gain at the more expensive school.  

 

I have people telling me I need to choose for him and tell him he is going to the school that won't cost him in terms of dollars.  I won't do that.  It is his choice.

 

So we all need a crystal ball so we can forsee the future and know the best decision.  Two roads diverging in a yellow wood....ugh.

[Nan in Mass]

Lisa, your son is sounding more and more like mine (surprise surprise grin) - internships, contacts, a more applied education,and inspiring stuff happening around them have been key for my boys' success so far, and we strongly suspect, future success. Totally different fields, but same ides. I do have a minute amount of experience in activism/foreign relations/conflict resolution type stuff and from what I have seen, contacts and experience are very important. I am watching my niece gain that sort of experience right now via the various programs at her (shockingly expensive sigh) college that encourage the students to be active in the community. She now has experience coordinating a large event, managing volunteers, and some other things that have really made her grow. They,ve taught the students to write grant proposals and for two summers in a row now, she has made her own summer job. These opportunities are available many places, but I think how likely a reserved student is to become involved with them varies greatly. I just had an exalmple of this from youngest today. His college has some policies that force the students to learn workplace skills. I don,t think he,d be learning them in a more ordinary engineering program, given who he is at the moment. Unfortunately, the contacts my niece is developing during the year are probably not in the community where she will ultimately wind up working. It would be better if they were. All that is a long way of saying that for some students, which school matters less than for otner students. Unfortunately. And I have the kind for whom it does matter.

 

Nan

[Liza Q]

The school we ultimately chose for our oldest was #2 in affordability, distance, size, and "fit". We didn't qualify for any aid so it was down to academic scholarships, our savings, and anything she could earn, as we would not take any loans and discouraged her from taking any herself. It was actually lower academically, but the Honors Program bumped it up. None of the others were clear #1s in more than one area.

 

It was also the one that I personally thought was the best fit, even though she preferred another school. Within a year she was thanking me for encouraging her to think past her feelings.

 

When it came time for grad school, she was able to turn down an Ivy League program and make a level-headed, not starry-eyed, decision on her own.

[JanetC]

 I do have a minute amount of experience in activism/foreign relations/conflict resolution type stuff and from what I have seen, contacts and experience are very important. I am watching my niece gain that sort of experience right now via the various programs at her (shockingly expensive sigh) college that encourage the students to be active in the community.

 

Yes, being active in your community and in government is important, but it doesn't necessarily have to be in Washington, DC.  (In fact, the competition in that town is likely to be fierce for the most desirable internships.)

 

A woman just elected to a local city council just got into the foreign service, I thought her story might be of interest?

 

http://www.issaquahreporter.com/news/374158121.html

[swimmermom3]

Yes, being active in your community and in government is important, but it doesn't necessarily have to be in Washington, DC.  (In fact, the competition in that town is likely to be fierce for the most desirable internships.)

 

A woman just elected to a local city council just got into the foreign service, I thought her story might be of interest?

 

http://www.issaquahreporter.com/news/374158121.html

 

Thanks for sharing this, Janet.

 

I need to see things in a different light.  In other words, I am looking at the "more affordable" choices with their bare-bones programs and somewhat isolated locations and asking, "Can he get to z from w?"

 

The school he doesn't like and feels no connection with has a large city 30 minutes away for internships and an accelerated masters program that links to top 25 foreign policy masters program in CA. There is sailing and a large merit scholarship, which if he lost, would put the cost at about the same as the other schools. With it, it's the most affordable. 

 

He feels connected to the school with the no-strings merit aid. It's kind of in the middle of nowhere, so internships will probably be minimal. He would have to shift his major more towards economics and less towards foreign service/policy/national security.  The education would probably be excellent. I am hoping to find some hidden gem of information that I have overlooked.

 

[daijobu]

 

 

Her parents are beginning to realize the negative impact the financial situation is having on her.

 

 

 

Wow, that is quite sobering.  Thank you for sharing this important lesson.  

[Tsuga]

When I can't make a decision I flip a coin (process of elimination). Tails, I don't go to College X. If I find myself deeply disappointed that it's out of the running, I put it back in. Edit: the process then goes to the next school... and the next. Until I'm happy with the decision.

 

I am ashamed to say I have had to use this method to choose which fountain pen to buy...

Edited April 12, 2016 by Tsuga

[JennW in SoCal]

 

 

He feels connected to the school with the no-strings merit aid. It's kind of in the middle of nowhere, so internships will probably be minimal. He would have to shift his major more towards economics and less towards foreign service/policy/national security.  The education would probably be excellent. I am hoping to find some hidden gem of information that I have overlooked.

 

 

There are plenty of summer internships and research positions available to undergrads no matter where they are attending school. It is a matter of finding them, of course, but the professors and staff at these smaller "middle of nowhere" schools are very good at matching their students with these summer positions. Same thing with matching students with a good study abroad program.  

 

I think the "middle of nowhere" colleges are keenly aware that they are indeed in the middle of nowhere, so they work harder to make sure their ambitious and talented students get connected. 

[Matryoshka]

We seem to be inching closer to a decision...

 

We visited a school last weekend that had rocketed up on the list due to the very generous merit aid. Dd liked the campus way more than her other main option, mainly because it actually had some greenery and walking paths (vs. just city buildings and asphalt).

 

BUT... The introductory classes are HUGE. Hundreds - up to 700 students in a class!! I didn't even know they could fit that many! The recitations are 50-90! The upper division classes (jr/sr year are capped at NINETY). Whaaaat??!! We would have to get dd a disability waiver (not necessary at any other school) because she needs to be closer to see the board; in small classes that's virtually never an issue, but in a situation like that?

 

And - dd had been wondering why she didn't get invited to the CompSci honors program (she has well above the stats listed on the website, and she's been invited to be in honors at virtually every place she's applied). It's got an accelerated class schedule which would be great because she's not only had AP CompSci A, but also a class beyond (what used to be AP CompSci B) - that way she could review, but not be bored by a slow pace. So, we went and sat through the presentation with hundreds and hundreds of other potential freshmen - they spent 20-30 min out of about an 1.5 hour presentation talking about the great CompSci honors program, and how great the classes were, and all the fantastic opportunities they got. Slides of the kids having dinner with the Honors prof and going sailing together... So, guess how many people they let into this program, out of something like 700 freshmen admitted? TWENTY. They took up a third of the presentation talking about a program only offered to 0.03% of incoming freshmen! WTH? (Harry Potter reference alert:) Dd quipped that wasn't an honors program, it was the Slug Club. We've taken to referring to the Honors prof as Professor Slughorn...

 

So dd, made a pro/con list, and looks like she's just about decided that one's off the list (phew, I just can't imagine her thriving with those huuuuge classes). We're still waiting to hear back from one more school where we asked for more money, as that had been her first choice - but I'm not holding my breath. So, that will leave just the one school standing. Yes, it's got an ugly campus, but the program is very strong, the honors program is great (and yes, she's in it), in very stark contrast to the other school they seem to be going out of their way to give the kids opportunities, she has an extra summer research coop/scholarship , and they have a very strong professional coop program (that expensive school also has, but Slughorn school doesn't). Just waiting to her back from expensive school now, and hopefully she can make a decision...

Edited April 12, 2016 by Matryoshka

[swimmermom3]

There are plenty of summer internships and research positions available to undergrads no matter where they are attending school. It is a matter of finding them, of course, but the professors and staff at these smaller "middle of nowhere" schools are very good at matching their students with these summer positions. Same thing with matching students with a good study abroad program.  

 

I think the "middle of nowhere" colleges are keenly aware that they are indeed in the middle of nowhere, so they work harder to make sure their ambitious and talented students get connected. 

 

This is really good to hear, although I am not as confident on the study abroad part, given what one of the schools told us.  I am going to have ds call the school he likes and ask more questions about the areas of concern with regards to his intended major.  We'll have to look over their club list again to and see where he could possibly get involved in ECs that sort of meet his outdoor interests. He was left with the impression that the majority of the guys game in their free time and that's not his thing. One of the schools we visited that was a "bubble," where few people leave campus, partying is huge.

 

I keep telling myself "affordability" and "academics," even if not quite in the right direction are critical.  Dh, who passionately hated his first school has a different take.