Sherlock: The Abominable Bride SPOILERS

[Word Nerd]

If you have watched the new Sherlock episode, post what you thought here. If not, go away until you have!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Word Nerd]

I loved it!

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I really enjoyed that episode, though it was a little harder than usual to follow—especially since I lost the live stream a few times and missed some of the dialogue.

 

I have really missed Moriarty and was glad to see him again even though it was only in the mind palace. I thought it was quite clever how they explained the Victorian setting. Molly was a surprise. Now I know why I never saw her in any of the previews!

Edited January 2, 2016 by Word Nerd

[Garga]

Everything was fine and I loved all of it, except for that scene on the ledge by the waterfall.

 

I'm not sure I got the artistic message that I think it was trying to send.

 

Sherlock and Moriarity are fighting, but John shows up. We realize that Sherlock is never alone, because John is with him. And then John shoves Moriarity over the edge. I think the indication is that Moriarity is definately dead and has been the whole time. And then Sherlock jumps over the edge.

 

I think there was supposed to be some sort of deep meaning to that. (?) That Sherlock would become a Moriarity if he didn't have John to rein him in? Yes? No?

 

Other than that one scene, everything was fine and I liked how Sherlock was using his 4 minutes flying back to go to his mind palace to try to figure out what was going on.

 

If someone else understood that ledge scene and the hidden meaning to it, I'd love to hear an explanation!

Edited January 2, 2016 by Garga

[Starr]

Dh says the ledge is where they have their final confrontation and Moriarty dies in the book. 

[Seasider]

I got it until Sherlock took the plunge. I don't understand why he jumped.

 

At some point the dream had to fall apart, so John turning up on the ledge didn't surprise me.

 

I did get a little flash of "Inception" at the beginning of that scene, though.

[Seasider]

Also, I was wondering how they could possibly have M come back, and a dream made it possible. So, are we to believe that S was tripping before that call to come back? But the plane did come back, so I'm confused - I really should have made time to watch the last episode before tonight's.

[Word Nerd]

I thought of Inception a couple of times while watching as well.

 

Garga, I think your explanation for the ledge makes sense, but I definitely need to see it again because I am not quite sure why Sherlock jumped too. It was almost like the "kick" in Inception.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Word Nerd

[Garga]

Dh says the ledge is where they have their final confrontation and Moriarty dies in the book.

Yes, that's true, but in tonight's episode, Moriarity had already died on the ledge. Sherlock refers to it as his 1800's self. But then Moriarity comes back from being dead and eats some dust in Sherlock's room. And then he shows up in a bride costume, which is all ok because it's all part of the dream...and THEN he shows back up on the ledge again, which is where he was supposed to have died earlier (as had been referred to earlier in the episode and like in the book) and now they're fighting again (like they did in the book), but then John shows up and it's all some sort of Freud dream.

 

I feel like I'm seeing a lot of Steven Moffatt in that episode. He tells a story and everything is going along fine and then suddenly it gets strange. He's been doing that to Doctor Who for a few years now and I'm tired of it. Just *tell* the story without being all fancy and meaningful and strange.

 

It reminds me of when people are singing the national anthem and start adding a bunch of frills and trills to it. Just sing it straight and stop trying to make it fancy. It's just irritating and no one can sing along.

 

As a stand alone, I'm ok with the weird little Freud session on the ledge, but I really hope they don't keep doing stuff like that in the future, the way they're doing it with Doctor Who. I just want a straight story for my Doctor Who and my Sherlock.

 

Other than that, I loved the episode.

 

And I agree with others that him flying must have been an Inception-like kick. He'd said something earlier, hadn't he, that it wasn't the falling that was deadly, it was the landing. I guess he'd never really land when he jumped because he'd just wake up.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Garga

[Garga]

Also, I was wondering how they could possibly have M come back, and a dream made it possible. So, are we to believe that S was tripping before that call to come back? But the plane did come back, so I'm confused - I really should have made time to watch the last episode before tonight's.

I guess we'll have to wait until 2017 to find out for sure. :( Actually, I got the feeling that Mycroft was pretending Moriarity came back just to have a reason to get Sherlock off the plane. I'd forgotten about that until just now. It's all a bit of a blur, but didn't they all agree that Moriarity must definately be dead and didn't somehow it come across that someone else was pretending to be Moriarity? And then I thought the only person smarter than Sherlock would be Mycroft, so perhaps Mycroft would pretend to be Moriarity, but not actually do any damage to anyone. It would just be a reason for Sherlock to be allowed to come back to England, and no one else would be smart enough to realize it was just a ruse.

 

I have to see it again because now I don't even remember why I had that thought. But Mycroft seemed to realize that sending Sherlock away alone would be terrible because Sherlock would be stuck with his own worst enemy (himself) and Mycroft didn't want Sherlock to suffer like that (being alone with his enemy all the time.)

Edited January 2, 2016 by Garga

[Seasider]

And I agree with others that him flying must have been an Inception-like kick. He'd said something earlier, hadn't he, that it wasn't the falling that was deadly, it was the landing. I guess he'd never really land when he jumped because he'd just wake up.

Ok, this makes sense to me.

[happi duck]

We loved it! Though our dvr cut off too soon. :( (I'm guessing it was just a few seconds we'll catch the encore just to be sure)

[Laura Corin]

I thought it was thin and preachy.  The whole women's power theme seemed to me a poor response to the complaints about sexualising Irene Adler and making Hooper a besotted fool.  Hoods and secret societies?  Even in a dream sequence?  

 

I never guess mysteries, but this was really clunky and obvious.  Really disappointed.

[Pegasus]

I got it until Sherlock took the plunge. I don't understand why he jumped.

 

 

 

This show contains a lot of references to the original Sherlock stories. You are definitely missing things if you haven't read them.

 

In the original story, Sherlock AND Moriarty go off the waterfall ledge. The author was trying to end the stories but there was so much outrage from the readers that he was pressured to bring Sherlock back from the dead so the stories could continue.

[Pegasus]

 Hoods and secret societies?  

 

This scene is actually a reference to the original "The Five Orange Pips" story.  It was about the KKK.

 

This is also a scene in the Young Sherlock Holmes movie.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Pegasus

[Pegasus]

 they all agree that Moriarity must definately be dead and didn't somehow it come across that someone else was pretending to be Moriarity? 

 

The current theory in my house is that the reason Moriarty was willing to kill himself is that he was already dying (direct ties to the killer cabbie episode and last night's special).  He is definitely dead but had already set up mechanisms to continue long after he was gone.  

[Soror]

I posted my thoughts in the other thread--

 

I got to watch all but a couple of minutes in the middle when the connection cut-out. I did not think it was good as usual. I found it confusing at times and really slow to start, the setting felt contrived, overall it was a bit of a disappointment. It is not one I'd tell non-Sherlock watchers to catch to lure them in. In the end I found it enjoyable (and will watch it again- hopefully it will grow on me) but I thought the witty lines were a bit sparse- the dialogue was just stilted in parts. 

 

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I've read some of the Sherlock stories but not all, I guess I need to finish the rest to get the connections. I'm not sure what to think on Moriarty. I need to re-watch the previous season because my brain feels a bit foggy on all that, with it taking so long between seasons one forgets(or at least I do!). 

[livetoread]

I loved the witty dialogue, but I thought there was just too much going on for it to be really enjoyable. Just when I thought, okay now I think I sort of understand, then the next minute I was back to, "Huh?" Trying too hard to be deep?

 

Maybe they wanted to make it all complicated to keep fans rewatching it and ruminating for awhile.

 

I wasn't disappointed, just a bit underwhelmed.

 

"Speaking as a criminal mastermind, we don't do gongs..." cracked me up.

[Laura Corin]

This scene is actually a reference to the original "The Five Orange Pips" story.  It was about the KKK.

 

This is also a scene in the Young Sherlock Holmes movie.

 

Yes.  I know.  But purple hoods and crypts to represent female emancipation?    The link to the KKK is not a plus, in my book.

[PeterPan]

Thanks for explaining the waterfall thing.  That was the one scene that was just really ODD.  The hoods were a surprise but fun.  Not that the KKK reference is funny (because it's not), but the power of the women, all these women behind the scenes, rising up to right wrongs, that was interesting in the power it represented.

 

The *pace* of the movie seemed different, like they had lost some of the charm or had so much to get done they had to speed up everything.  It just felt constantly faster, without time to slow down and let zingers happen.  I just figured it was so different they were trying to let it be different.  

 

I missed the tilt shift (lens/effect).  I always watch for it, and it's sort of a running joke in our house.  (I saw TILT-SHIFT!! and dd shouts LONDON!!)  I guess, duh, it would be really hard to have tilt shift shots of victorian england, oops.  I thought the way they got the street scenes in the early part so full of people was glorious.  Lots of effort there, not on the cheap.  And their aggressive use of technology (screen shots of thoughts, fades and flips, etc.) was fun juxtaposed against the victorian/vintage.  It was a shock when they buzzed him back to modern, wasn't expecting that, but I LOVED it.  

 

So who liked Mycroft as fat?  Wasn't that amazing?  How did they do the hands?  I was so lost in the details of it, wow.  It was this total blueberry, Willy Wonka moment, lol.  Is there some secret or reference with the plum pudding?  LOL

Edited January 2, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[Word Nerd]

This show contains a lot of references to the original Sherlock stories. You are definitely missing things if you haven't read them.

 

In the original story, Sherlock AND Moriarty go off the waterfall ledge. The author was trying to end the stories but there was so much outrage from the readers that he was pressured to bring Sherlock back from the dead so the stories could continue.

Pretty sure even the mildest Sherlock Holmes fans are familiar with Reichenbach Falls. The familiar setting and allusions to the original Conan Doyle story and the jump in the Sherlock episode where he faked his death don't fully explain that scene. Edited January 2, 2016 by Word Nerd

[elegantlion]

I enjoyed it, laughed out loud several times. It takes a lot to make me laugh lately. As soon as I saw the obese Mycroft and he mentioned a virus in the data I knew that it wasn't real. Then it made sense why he picked this case, because of Moriarty. 

 

Ds and I rarely sit and watch TV together - we rarely watch anything scheduled - so it was nice to have an evening together. He enjoyed it and I'm sure will have much commentary today. 

[Pegasus]

DD19 wrote up the following to explain some of the episode references for anyone who hasn't read them:

 

The Abominable Bride references

The final scene, with Sherlock and Moriarty on the waterfall ledge, is a direct reference to “The Final Problemâ€, a Sherlock Holmes story first published in 1893. Near the end, after the long chase for Moriarty, Sherlock finally catches up to him near the Reichenbach falls, located in Switzerland, and after a brief tussle they both go over the cliff. This story was written as an attempt to end the continuing stories of Sherlock Holmes, for Arthur Conan Doyle was by this point getting sick of writing the stories and wanted to end it. Since this tale is only the twenty fourth short story out of fifty six, it is clear that he failed. Watchers of Sherlock might remember that during the second season Moriarty episode, The Reichenbach Fall, one of the puzzles involved a painting of those self-same falls, a small nod to the original story.

The newspaper man at the beginning of the episode is selling an edition covering “The Adventure of the Blue Carbuncle.†Naturally, this is the title of one of the original stories. If anyone’s wondering, a carbuncle is either a pus-filled boil or a deep-red cabochon cut gemstone usually garnet, specifically almandine. No prizes for guessing which one is referred to here.

In the original stories Sherlock was indeed a bad drug addict. While in the modern setting of the show they changed it to smoking patches, both smoking and injecting of drugs most certainly featured in the original, and I was pleasantly surprised that it was included.

The orange seeds received as an early threat are directly from the story “The Five Orange Pips.†The seeds were used as a message that you are marked for death by a very particular group (see next comment). Interestingly, this was also referenced in the first season Moriarty episode. When Moriarty signs off with five beeps at the end of the first phone call, Sherlock describes it as “five pips†instead of a more common name for a high tone.

The sequence of cloaked figures chanting in a secret underground complex could be referring to the climax of the 1985 movie, “Young Sherlock Holmes,†but it could equally have been coincidence. Every secret society with cloaked members meeting underground can hardly be related to every previous one. Far more relevent is the shape of the hoods. If you thought that the high-pointed hoods looked suspiciously like those made notorious by the KKK, then you’re already onto it. In “The Five Orange Pips†the eventual answer is that the man who received the threat is now being hunted by the KKK as revenge for something he did in the past. While the ending was dramatically changed, the show makers still kept this little nod to the original story. Not sure that I like a women’s revolution being compared to the KKK though, even if it is a nice easter egg.

And finally, for anyone wondering, yes. Sherlock DID beat corpses with a riding crop to check for bruising in one of the original stories. Yes, he also came home covered in blood from shoving a harpoon into a pig carcass. Yes, the show hardly has to make up any of their funny single scene moments.

 

Edited January 2, 2016 by Pegasus

[PIE!]

It didn't seem too complicated, but maybe I was just not trying to look deeply. There were many references to the original books, including the death of Moriarty at the falls. John showed up because he's Sherlock's friend, so Sherlock doesn't have to do things alone, so he can beat someone like Moriarty who doesn't have a friend like that.

 

Didn't he jump at the end just to wake up? I thought John asked him how he was going to wake up, and since you can't die in a dream, jumping off a waterfall seemed like a good way to wake up.

[Word Nerd]

Mycroft is obese in the original stories too.

[Kathryn]

It didn't seem too complicated, but maybe I was just not trying to look deeply. There were many references to the original books, including the death of Moriarty at the falls. John showed up because he's Sherlock's friend, so Sherlock doesn't have to do things alone, so he can beat someone like Moriarty who doesn't have a friend like that.

 

Didn't he jump at the end just to wake up? I thought John asked him how he was going to wake up, and since you can't die in a dream, jumping off a waterfall seemed like a good way to wake up.

That's what I thought as well.

 

And I assumed that the present-day situation was because of things Moriarty set in action before his death. I've seen some people speculate that Mycroft is behind it, but I didn't get that impression.

[JumpyTheFrog]

Was it just me or did Moriarty sound different than he did in earlier seasons? I looked up the actor and found out he's Irish, but I thought he sounded like a Scottish person trying to do an American accent. Of course, I'm not that great at identifying accents...

[Chris in VA]

 

 

In the original stories Sherlock was indeed a bad drug addict. While in the modern setting of the show they changed it to smoking patches, both smoking and injecting of drugs most certainly featured in the original, and I was pleasantly surprised that it was included.

 

If I'm not mistaken, this modern adaptation also has Sherlock as a drug addict, and not just nicotine. I recall an episode where he was in a crack house for research purposes, but it was definitely made clear he had an addiction.

 

 

I liked the episode very much.

 

Tell me about the list, though--I didn't catch what the list was that he made and gave Mycroft.

 

[lots of little ducklings]

Dh and I loved it.  It does not nothing to advance the plot, but does delve deeply into the inner-workings of Sherlock's mind, revealing things about himself to himself (and the viewer) which even he was not consciously aware of.  Moriarty is dead; but he is also (maybe?) the fear, the weakness, the vulnerability in Sherlock's brilliant mind which both terrifies him (his Achilles' heel) but at the same time gives his mind purpose, life.  Sherlock's drive to overcome Moriarty defines him; what becomes of Sherlock when Moriarty is dead?  So the mind-palace-Doyle-Reichenbach fall was perfect, I thought.   

 

And golly it was fun to watch.  

 

 

 

 

 

Here's a review I enjoyed.  

 

 

 

[Laura Corin]

Liked this tweet:

 

Emma Kennedy â€@EmmaKennedy  19h19 hours ago

Mostly we all loved the bit where the man came and explained feminism to a room full of women. #Sherlock

[Laura Corin]

 

 

Tell me about the list, though--I didn't catch what the list was that he made and gave Mycroft.

 

 

List of drugs taken, I think.

[Chris in VA]

Ah--I thought it might be that, but thought it was a reference to something I missed in one of the episodes before.

Thanks!

[Word Nerd]

The biggest mystery is why people who don't like the show or Moffatt and are always disappointed by it keep watching. ;)

Edited January 2, 2016 by Word Nerd

[Seasider]

Was it just me or did Moriarty sound different than he did in earlier seasons? I looked up the actor and found out he's Irish, but I thought he sounded like a Scottish person trying to do an American accent. Of course, I'm not that great at identifying accents...

I thought he sounded the same. He has a very distinctive quality to his voice, but a scrambled (non?)accent, to be sure.

[Seasider]

If I'm not mistaken, this modern adaptation also has Sherlock as a drug addict, and not just nicotine. I recall an episode where he was in a crack house for research purposes, but it was definitely made clear he had an addiction.

 

 

I liked the episode very much.

 

Tell me about the list, though--I didn't catch what the list was that he made and gave Mycroft.

 

"The list" seemed to me to make it pretty clear he has more than one or at least varying preferences for what he's using at any given time. As he put it, he's "not an addict, but a user." I think he at least has himself convinced that these are aides to his mind palace retreats. Edited January 2, 2016 by Seasider

[Soror]

The biggest mystery is why people who don't like the show or Moffatt and are always disappointed by it keep watching. ;)

I love the show, this is the first time I've been disappointed in any of the episodes but I still think it was good, just not near as good as usual.

[Laura Corin]

I love the show, this is the first time I've been disappointed in any of the episodes but I still think it was good, just not near as good as usual.

 

I was a bit more disappointed than you were. I've always been peeved by the Adler characterisation (the 19th century managing to portray a worthy cerebral foil to Sherlock, and the 21st turning her into an S&M queen...). But generally, I've enjoyed them.

[Soror]

I was a bit more disappointed than you were. I've always been peeved by the Adler characterisation (the 19th century managing to portray a worthy cerebral foil to Sherlock, and the 21st turning her into an S&M queen...). But generally, I've enjoyed them.

I started reading Shelock after watching so I can forgive the differences and I kind of divorce it in my mind- like the LoTR movies.

[TranquilMind]

If you have watched the new Sherlock episode, post what you thought here. If not, go away until you have!

I really don't get the hype.  One of my kids wanted to watch it so we did.

Very dark and creepy. 

[Garga]

The biggest mystery is why people who don't like the show or Moffatt and are always disappointed by it keep watching. ;)

 

 

I have liked Sherlock up till now.  If it keeps being odd, I might stop. 

 

I'm upset when Moffatt messes with Doctor Who because I've been watching Doctor Who since 1977.  It's not *his* to mess up!  It belongs to a lot more people than that one writer.  He needs to go and let someone else tell proper stories that don't all feel like bizarre dream sequences with gigantic plot holes (there are so many plot holes in so many of his DW episodes.)

 

I keep watching Doctor Who because I won't let this one writer stand in the way of my love of Doctor Who.  I'll wait him out.

 

But I don't have a 35 year old history with Sherlock, so I'll let it drop if it doesn't go back to normal.  I'm ok with one episode that doesn't make sense because it's a dream sequence, but I like a mystery with a beginning, middle, and ending with proper clues that can be followed and a logical explanation.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Garga

[Laura Corin]

I started reading Shelock after watching so I can forgive the differences and I kind of divorce it in my mind- like the LoTR movies.

 

It's not that I dislike differences between the books and the TV series, just that the portrayal of women in the series has been unattractive.  It feels as if this (preachy) episode is some kind of clumsy atonement.

[BarbecueMom]

It's not that I dislike differences between the books and the TV series, just that the portrayal of women in the series has been unattractive. It feels as if this (preachy) episode is some kind of clumsy atonement.

I am starting to wonder if Moffat was cornered by someone at the BBC, given a list of complaints about his portrayals of women, and ordered to actually take it seriously this time. Between this episode and the last season of Doctor Who, it felt like he was ticking boxes off a feminist's checklist, without actually understanding what's on it and why. I'm normally not very good at picking up on subtle misogyny and artistic authenticity, so I'm a bit surprised it's jumping out at me.

 

As far as the actual episode, I'm curious if they are setting up Mycroft's demise in the next series.

[Word Nerd]

I would expect Mary to die before Mycroft.

[Matryoshka]

I would expect Mary to die before Mycroft.

 

Does Mycroft die in the books?  I'm pretty sure Mary doesn't...

 

[Word Nerd]

Does Mycroft die in the books? I'm pretty sure Mary doesn't...

 

Yes, Mary dies in the original stories. Mycroft does not as far as I know.

[Word Nerd]

Mark Gatiss is also a co-creator of Sherlock, so I doubt he'd kill off his own character.