#IStandWithAhmed

[zoobie]

News story from 2014 on how Irving PD responds to suspicious package that turned out to contain a fake bomb: http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Irving-Police-Investigate-Suspicious-Package-256391071.html

[unsinkable]

Sorry, removed.

Thank you.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

I'm 40 and they evacuated mine too for a bomb threat and annual drills. Once for a senior prank involving fireworks in the boys' locker room. How long ago did bombs not blow up buildings? That's not exactly newfangled weaponry.

 

I am 40 as well, they sure as heck evacuated for every single threat when I was in school, and at my university. 

[ktgrok]

"The family of Ahmed Mohamed, the boy who was arrested for bringing a homemade clock into school that was mistaken for a bomb, has hired a lawyer to get the timepiece back and has decided to homeschool the teen and his siblings." 

 

"His family has pulled him and two other siblings out of the Irving School District because of religious persecution and made the decision to homeschool the children," read the statement.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/ahmed-mohameds-family-hires-lawyers-clock-back-homeschool/story?id=33994735

 

Well now. 

 

Welcome to the darkside  Ahmed!

[Mimm]

So even though he did nothing wrong and is supposedly not in trouble for it, they won't give him his clock back?

 

ETA: And of course, he's suspended still. :glare: 

[Spryte]

So even though he did nothing wrong and is supposedly not in trouble for it, they won't give him his clock back?

 

ETA: And of course, he's suspended still. :glare:

I cannot follow their reasoning that he should be suspended. At all. It makes no sense.

[SKL]

No, his suspension is not ongoing.  It was for 3 days.  His parents withdrew him from school.

[SKL]

I cannot follow their reasoning that he should be suspended. At all. It makes no sense.

 

That's because you are not allowed to know anything that happened before the cops got involved.

 

[amsunshine]

Yes, haven't you heard?  There is information the school has for some reason kept hidden from the police that shows Ahmed is a no-good troublemaker.  :rolleyes:

 

We saw the Nightly Show last night -- anyone else?  He seems like an adorable kid.

[ktgrok]

That's because you are not allowed to know anything that happened before the cops got involved.

 

 

But the COPS know what happened. And they said there is no evidence he made  hoax bomb. 

[SKL]

Lots of kids are suspended without committing a chargeable crime.  The two are not dependent on each other.

[amsunshine]

Right, and no kids are ever suspended that didn't deserve it.

[SKL]

Facts would be appreciated.  Then I could take a stand one way or the other.

[amsunshine]

You have the facts.  You are looking for something that is unsubstantiated by, or contradicts, the facts.  The teachers thought Ahmed had either a bomb or a hoax bomb, either of which would have been chargeable criminal offenses.  The police found no evidence to support a chargeable criminal offense.   That means the staff members who started these wheels in motion were paranoid, technologically illiterate, incompetent or all of the above.

[SKL]

The cops had to analyze the thing to confirm it wasn't a bomb.  So I don't understand how everyone expects the English teacher to be able to tell at sight when that is not her area of expertise.  Contrary to the implication here, many if not most people looking at that thing would not have known it was nothing more than a reassembled old clock.

 

And I would note that the school itself called the cops, but the school did not put the kid in handcuffs or take him to the police station or book him.  The school wasn't required to bring his parents in in order to ask Ahmed some questions about this thing that supposedly started beeping in English class.  If those were procedural errors, that's on the cops, not the school, and certainly not the English teacher.

[ktgrok]

The cops had to analyze the thing to confirm it wasn't a bomb.  So I don't understand how everyone expects the English teacher to be able to tell at sight when that is not her area of expertise.  Contrary to the implication here, many if not most people looking at that thing would not have known it was nothing more than a reassembled old clock.

 

And I would note that the school itself called the cops, but the school did not put the kid in handcuffs or take him to the police station or book him.  The school wasn't required to bring his parents in in order to ask Ahmed some questions about this thing that supposedly started beeping in English class.  If those were procedural errors, that's on the cops, not the school, and certainly not the English teacher.

 

no, the cops analyzed his story to see if he was making a hoax bomb. He was NEVER accused of making a bomb in actuality, just of trying to scare people with a fake bomb. 

 

And if the teachers thought it was a bomb they would have evacuated. They didn't. So they didn't think it was a bomb. The cops have said there is no evidence to show he made a hoax bomb. So either they suspended him for that even though the police themselves say there is no evidence to support the idea, or they suspended him for something else, and the rest was just coincidence I guess?

[amsunshine]

The cops had to analyze the thing to confirm it wasn't a bomb.  So I don't understand how everyone expects the English teacher to be able to tell at sight when that is not her area of expertise.  Contrary to the implication here, many if not most people looking at that thing would not have known it was nothing more than a reassembled old clock.

 

And I would note that the school itself called the cops, but the school did not put the kid in handcuffs or take him to the police station or book him.  The school wasn't required to bring his parents in in order to ask Ahmed some questions about this thing that supposedly started beeping in English class.  If those were procedural errors, that's on the cops, not the school, and certainly not the English teacher.

 

I'm a bit confused--I thought you were saying that there is information that hasn't come out yet that may/will somehow vindicate the school's actions in suspending Ahmed.  I don't expect anyone (including the English teacher) to be technologically literate.  I do expect that a school (especially a school that prides itself on having an award winning STEM program) should have good grounds for suspending a student. Given the facts as we know them, that doesn't appear to be the case here.

[amsunshine]

no, the cops analyzed his story to see if he was making a hoax bomb. He was NEVER accused of making a bomb in actuality, just of trying to scare people with a fake bomb. 

 

Yes, the police chief stated in the press conference that his officers knew almost immediately that the clock was not a bomb and their investigation was focused instead on whether it was intended to be a hoax bomb.

[SKL]

I still maintain that it is very possible the English teacher acted in good faith when she reported the device to have the cops look at it.

 

Everything I read said that the cops examined at the device to determine whether it was a bomb.

 

There is a considerable range of possibilities between "I wonder if this funny looking thing could be dangerous" and "we need to evacuate immediately."  But maybe some believe a school should always evacuate instantly whenever there is the slightest question?  So then such people would have been much happier if the school had been quickly evacuated at the same time as Ahmed was led away by the cops?  Then at least we would have "proof" that the English teacher really wondered if it wasn't just a clock?

[amsunshine]

I still maintain that it is very possible the English teacher acted in good faith when she reported the device to have the cops look at it.

 

Everything I read said that the cops examined at the device to determine whether it was a bomb.

 

There is a considerable range of possibilities between "I wonder if this funny looking thing could be dangerous" and "we need to evacuate immediately."  But maybe some believe a school should always evacuate instantly whenever there is the slightest question?  So then such people would have been much happier if the school had been quickly evacuated at the same time as Ahmed was led away by the cops?  Then at least we would have "proof" that the English teacher really wondered if it wasn't just a clock?

 

What does it matter what the English teacher did?  The English teacher did not suspend Ahmed.

[SKL]

I'm a bit confused--I thought you were saying that there is information that hasn't come out yet that may/will somehow vindicate the school's actions in suspending Ahmed.  I don't expect anyone (including the English teacher) to be technologically literate.  I do expect that a school (especially a school that prides itself on having an award winning STEM program) should have good grounds for suspending a student. Given the facts as we know them, that doesn't appear to be the case here.

 

How would I know if there is crucial information that hasn't come out yet?  All I know is that the school has indicated it would like to tell its side of the story but the family is not permitting this.

 

I don't know the circumstances of the suspension.  Or whether it would have been lifted after the cops dropped the case, had they not found themselves in CYA mode.  I don't know anything about it, and that is why I can't say whether they did wrong or not.

[SKL]

What does it matter what the English teacher did?  The English teacher did not suspend Ahmed.

 

If it doesn't matter what the English teacher did, why are so many people saying horrible things about her?

[unsinkable]

Did anyone READ the police press release?

 

:confused:

 

The teacher thought it was "possibly the infrastructure for a bomb."

 

This could happen all over again. The school is fine with the way they handled it.

 

It's not about Ahmed, because he's gone. It's about what the school did.

[SKL]

Did anyone READ the police press release?

 

:confused:

 

The teacher thought it was "possibly the infrastructure for a bomb."

 

This could happen all over again. The school is fine with the way they handled it.

 

It's not about Ahmed, because he's gone. It's about what the school did.

 

Or what the cops did, or both.

 

[amsunshine]

How would I know if there is information that hasn't come out yet?  All I know is that the school has indicated it would like to tell its side of the story but the family is not permitting this.

 

I don't know the circumstances of the suspension.  Or whether it would have been lifted after the cops dropped the case, had they not found themselves in CYA mode.  I don't know anything about it, and that is why I can't say whether they did wrong or not.

 

Well, you are the one who said we don't have all the information.  It's as if you are suggesting there might be some secret information out there that no one is privy to yet that would somehow vindicate the school.

 

I'm sure the school would like to make self-serving statements to the public but what would that accomplish?  And it's the family's lawyer(s) who are advising them to not sign a privacy release. That's pretty standard when legal proceedings might be imminent.  No reason to try the case in the media. 

[SKL]

Well, you are the one who said we don't have all the information.  It's as if you are suggesting there might be some secret information out there that no one is privy to yet that would somehow vindicate the school.

 

I'm sure the school would like to make self-serving statements to the public but what would that accomplish?  And it's the family's lawyer(s) who are advising them to not sign a privacy release. That's pretty standard when legal proceedings might be imminent.  No reason to try the case in the media. 

 

No reason to try the case in the media?  Well I could get on board with that, but I think that ship already sailed.

 

[SKL]

And yeah, as has been discussed, there are many factual loose ends about what happened at school before the cops talked to Ahmed.  I don't know if that information is crucial or not because I have not heard it.

[zoobie]

And yeah, as has been discussed, there are many factual loose ends about what happened at school before the cops talked to Ahmed. I don't know if that information is important or not because I have not heard it.

Per the police info, Ahmed was going about his day in school until he was removed from class either 2 or 3 periods later by the principal and a police officer. The school didn't have disciplinary interactions with him without the police.

[amsunshine]

If it doesn't matter what the English teacher did, why are so many people saying horrible things about her?

 

What horrible things?

 

Whatever the English teacher did/thought, acted in good faith, whatever -- it doesn't matter.  She was apparently technologically illiterate and she was grossly mistaken.

 

However, someone at the school should have had an ounce of common sense.  The decision to suspend Ahmed was not that of the English teacher -- it was the administration at the school.   The administration handled the situation poorly.  

[SKL]

I read the police press comments and it doesn't say anything about how long he was "going about his day" or what conversations were had before they spoke to him.  He claimed to have had a conversation with at least two teachers about his clock, and that the alarm rang & he turned it off while his English classmates were present.  But we don't know what was said or done during or after those moments.

 

The police press comments I read also don't say how long it was between the time the English teacher saw the clock and the time Ahmed was escorted out of class by police.

 

Is there a more detailed police press release that I have not seen?  Link anyone?

[SKL]

Not knowing more, I would think a school should wait to learn the outcome of the police investigation before suspending a kid for what the cops are investigating.  It would be nice to know if the only grounds for suspension were the exact thing the cops were investigating - or if it was something more.  This we do not know.

 

It would also be nice to know if the suspension was some sort of "zero tolerance" thing that kicked in automatically or if it was a decision specific to the situation.

 

I am a hater of "zero tolerance" policies at school.  They have dinged my family significantly and I fear them.  All the examples people have posted above make me sick, and these are just the tip of the iceberg.  If that is what happened to Ahmed, I want to puke on his behalf.

 

That said, the response to this case is going to be more "zero tolerance" type crap.  No longer do we call the cops and let them look at a thing before deciding to evacuate.  Evacuate every single time.  Better yet, search kids' school bags before they enter.  Or make them all bring only clear plastic bags so they can't get away with carrying unauthorized things that might ring in English class and cause concern.

[Amira]

 I don't think it's terribly unreasonable for a teacher to report something that she didn't understand or thought was suspicious.  It seems odd that she thought it was suspicious, but better to report than not.  The school also has a right to call the police.  That seems an overreaction to me, but I can understand why they did it.

 

What I have a problem with is the principal deciding to suspend Ahmed even though everyone knew the thing wasn't dangerous and with the police for arresting him, even though they never thought the thing was a bomb and Ahmed never said it was.  No one ever came up with anything that he did wrong, except to bring a device to school that was allowed in the morning and banned by the afternoon.  That doesn't seem to warrant a suspension and an arrest.  A warning?  Sure, if the school is going to flip out over wires, then it's good to know to not bring something wirey. But handcuffs?  Unreasonable.

 

[amsunshine]

Not knowing more, I would think a school should wait to learn the outcome of the police investigation before suspending a kid for what the cops are investigating.  It would be nice to know if the only grounds for suspension were the exact thing the cops were investigating - or if it was something more.  This we do not know.

 

Sure, I agree a school should wait to suspend a kid until they have actual grounds to do so.  

 

But to speculate that there might be some possibly secret reason that no one knows about yet for his suspension, unrelated to the clock/hoax bomb accusation,  would be unreasonable.  The school wrote the parents a letter talking about a "suspicious device".  That's it.

[SKL]

Sure, I agree a school should wait to suspend a kid until they have actual grounds to do so.  

 

But to speculate that there might be some possibly secret reason that no one knows about yet for his suspension, unrelated to the clock/hoax bomb accusation,  would be unreasonable.  The school wrote the parents a letter talking about a "suspicious device".  That's it.

 

The school wrote that letter to all the parents of the students.  Of course they are not going to share (in a public letter, without permission) disciplinary information that is not relevant to the other kids.  That doesn't prove anything at all.

[amsunshine]

The school wrote that letter to all the parents of the students.  Of course they are not going to share (in a public letter, without permission) disciplinary information that is not relevant to the other kids.  That doesn't prove anything at all.

 

On the other hand, the school is required by its own policies and procedures to notify the family of the grounds for suspension.  Are you saying the family might be lying about the grounds for suspension?

 

eta:  and yes, I said "the parents" but should have added "of all the students"; my bad.

[SKL]

Sure, I agree a school should wait to suspend a kid until they have actual grounds to do so.  

 

But to speculate that there might be some possibly secret reason that no one knows about yet for his suspension, unrelated to the clock/hoax bomb accusation,  would be unreasonable.  The school wrote the parents a letter talking about a "suspicious device".  That's it.

 

As for "possibly secret reason," everything that happens to your individual kid in school is private.  You can say "secret" if you prefer.  You make it sound as if it would be more normal for the school to holler everything Ahmed ever did wrong on all the news channels without permission.  No, I think that would be illegal.  They can't even publicly deny what the family has said, even if it is patently untrue, unless they get some sort of waiver or other legal right to do so.

[SKL]

On the other hand, the school is required by its own policies and procedures to notify the family of the grounds for suspension.  Are you saying the family might be lying about the grounds for suspension?

 

The family has been selective in its reporting, I believe.  Why don't they just provide the school's disciplinary letter so we can clearly see what the school claims the suspension is for?  I haven't seen it, have you?  That might clear a lot of things up.  At least then we could agree that the suspension should have been immediately lifted or should not have happened in the first place.

[unsinkable]

Perhaps he's on Double Secret Probation.

[amsunshine]

As for "possibly secret reason," everything that happens to your individual kid in school is private.  You can say "secret" if you prefer.  You make it sound as if it would be more normal for the school to holler everything Ahmed ever did wrong on all the news channels without permission.  No, I think that would be illegal.  They can't even publicly deny what the family has said, even if it is patently untrue, unless they get some sort of waiver or other legal right to do so.

 

 

You are misinterpreting my meaning.  I am using the word "secret" because you are implying that we don't know all the information about the reasons for the suspension, and that there might even be a reason for Ahmed's suspension unrelated to the police investigation.

[SKL]

You are misinterpreting my meaning.  I am using the word "secret" because you are implying that we don't know all the information about the reasons for the suspension, and that there might even be a reason for Ahmed's suspension unrelated to the police investigation.

 

Well, yeah, and the reason we don't know is because of privacy rules the school has to follow.

 

I'm not saying there *definitely is* some other reason for the suspension.  I just think it's wrong to say there *definitely is not* when the truth is that we don't know either way.

[amsunshine]

Or maybe, just maybe, we can make reasonable assumptions based on what we know about the facts.  Most times, things are much simpler than people would like to believe in their wildest imaginations.  Could he have been suspended because, for example, he violated some other part of the code of conduct, such as possessing a lighter or cigarettes?  I suppose so.  Would that be reasonable to assume given what we do know?  I don't think so, and I guess we will have to agree to disagree on that.

 

I prefer not to live in suspicion of people who do not appear to have done anything wrong.  I don't believe his family has been "selective" in its reporting such that we don't really know the reason Ahmed was suspended; I don't believe Ahmed is "shifty" as you have put it, or "fibbed" to anyone about his clock, as you have previously suggested.  Based on everything I've seen and read, I believe this was a kid who just wanted to learn something at a place where, surprise, the staff was supposed to help him learn.  

 

So, anyway, we will just have to agree to disagree.  

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

This thread reminds me of arguing with my Aspie.  He cannot see things from anyone else's point of view.  

[DesertBlossom]

I thought this was an interesting read. I know most of the posters here will dismiss it because of the source. But I thought the information about the demographics of the city to be interesting.  And I haven't read it elsewhere, but I wonder if it's really true that he switched the clock so it counted down instead of up.

 

[Laura Corin]

I thought this was an interesting read. I know most of the posters here will dismiss it because of the source. But I thought the information about the demographics of the city to be interesting.  And I haven't read it elsewhere, but I wonder if it's really true that he switched the clock so it counted down instead of up.

 

I didn't read the article.  If he switched it to count down, that would be like a rocket launch count-down, yes?  To go with his NASA t-shirt?

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I thought this was an interesting read. I know most of the posters here will dismiss it because of the source. But I thought the information about the demographics of the city to be interesting. And I haven't read it elsewhere, but I wonder if it's really true that he switched the clock so it counted down instead of up.

I am not sure why Beck babbling on about the Muslim Brotherhood or the nonsense about Muslims imposing "Sharia law" in Irving is a particularly interesting read. Sometimes I think good old Glen is nipping at the bottle again.

[Amira]

I thought this was an interesting read. I know most of the posters here will dismiss it because of the source. But I thought the information about the demographics of the city to be interesting.  And I haven't read it elsewhere, but I wonder if it's really true that he switched the clock so it counted down instead of up.

 

I read the entire thing and while it's probably not a surprise that I'm not a Glenn Beck fan, I'm pretty appalled at the accusations and insinuations he has here.

 

First, there has never been a legally-binding Shari'a law court in Irving.  Not that that has anything to do with Ahmed at all.

 

Second, it doesn't matter what political positions Ahmed's dad has run for in other countries or what political activities he's involved with now.  That has nothing to do with the clock Ahmed built.

 

Third, going on the Hajj is a perfectly fine thing to do.  I am a Christian and I talk to Muslims after "they've walked around the cube" and somehow, I'm still a good Christian.  Obama is not anti-Christian for talking to a family who just returned from the Hajj.

 

Fourth, I cannot see how it's sinister that the family went to a Muslim civil rights groups for advice when this happened.  CAIR didn't build the clock and has nothing to do with the suspension and arrest, just with how the family might handle their aftermath.  

 

Fifth, I think it is appalling that a Muslim student shouldn't be allowed to bring something with wires to school because some Muslims have done bad things with wires in some other parts of the world.  If Glenn Beck holds an alcoholic drink, he doesn't get arrested.  Bringing something with wires to school DOES NOT HURT ISLAM.

 

ETA: A diverse school still can single students out because of their religion.  A clock that counts down still isn't dangerous.  Like I said above, I don't think it's terribly unreasonable that the teacher reported the clock.  But I think that the arrest and suspension were an overreaction and this article does nothing to change that.

 

ETA2: I really, really hope that no one ever lumps me in with Glenn Beck because we're both Mormons.

[LucyStoner]

Woot woot! New homeschoolers!

[amsunshine]

Here's at least one article that discredits a number of the smear campaign theories about the case, including the "countdown clock" theory.  

[QueenCat]

Maybe things were different where SKL went to school (rather than "when" she went to school,) or perhaps it was a regional thing? I only say that because I'm 52 and they always evacuated our schools and called in the bomb squad whenever someone called in a bomb threat. Thankfully, there was never a real danger to anyone, but they never took any chances.

 

Same here, they always evacuated the school and brought in the bomb squad. We are close in age, so it was done "way back when" in at least the two areas we lived in.

[justasque]

I thought this was an interesting read. I know most of the posters here will dismiss it because of the source. But I thought the information about the demographics of the city to be interesting.  And I haven't read it elsewhere, but I wonder if it's really true that he switched the clock so it counted down instead of up.

 

There's not enough time to go through the entire article, but let's look at just two sentences to decide if this is an accurate, credible source, yes?

 

"This school, which is only 6 percent Caucasian, apparently is the most racist place in the world.  Because if you're a Muslim, you're in trouble."

 

Questions to consider:

• Is the school only 6 percent Caucasian?  That's actually a complex question in that area of the country.  For example, what race is Ahmed?  But let's take a quick Google.  GreatSchools.org says the racial makeup of the school is as follows.  Where do kids like Ahmed fit in these stats?  Which category would he be in?  Is he White?  Is he Black? Since his family is from Africa, he's probably not Hispanic, Asian, Pacific Islander, American Indian, Alaskan, or Hawaiian.  This race stuff isn't easy, is it?

   

  Hispanic - 52%

  Black - 26%

  White - 14%

  Asian or Pacific Islander - 6%

  Two or more races - 2%

  American Indian/Alaska Native - 1%

  Hawaiian Native/Pacific Islander - 0%

   

• Beck seems to imply that the racial makeup of the school has something to do with an acceptance of religious diversity.  But the stats above give absolutely no information about the religious diversity of the student population.  How many of those students are likely to be Christian?  Jewish? Muslim?  We don't know.  Racial statistics don't tell us.  We could speculate, but the three largest categories (White, Black, Hispanic) are generally majority-Christian groups in this country, which doesn't match Beck's insinuation that this is a religiously diverse population in which Muslims are well-represented.  

   

• Beck implies that communities that are minority-white are free from racial discrimination.  There's a lot to unpack there (institutional racism, anyone?) but I'm too busy to do it justice, so I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader(s).