GRR -- BMI -- S/O Weight and Data

[LisaKinVA]

So, my 13yo, athlete (and a couple other friends in the same too much muscle boat) had a PE teacher calculate their BMI in school today.  They are in the high-end of normal.  Their height is such that a change of 5# puts them into the overweight category.  

 

They were told to watch their weight.

 

And that their grade, would in part, be BASED on their BMI checks at the end of the semester and the end of the year. 

 

My blood is boiling. I have a feeling I'm going to send a strongly worded e-mail to the school principal with some articles on BMI and athletes.  I cannot believe they are using THAT as part of their grade!  MOREOVER, that they would tell extremely fit FEMALE athletes with fat percentages under 20% to WATCH their friggin weight!

 

It will not take much for my daughter to increase her muscle mass by 5# -- especially with the amount of running, swimming, Yoga, calisthenics, and weight training she does just as part of her swim training, and what she does at home on her own -- and now the PE and homework for PE (which is kinda laughable for her...1 push-up, 5 crunches, 2 minute jog.  

 

Seriously, if they want the kids to work at reducing body fat -- measure their actual body fat with measurements and a caliper.  OR, just use tape measures!  BMI is a horrible standard for athletes -- especially female athletes.

 

She's 13, 5'1 (and just started growing), wears a girls size 12-14 pants, and weighs (depending upon the time of month 99-105 pounds).  She is not fat, she is FIT. 

 

GRR...just GRRRRRR!

 

Yes, I know BMI can be a helpful tool for the "average" person -- but when the person is OBVIOUSLY not average, put your friggin glasses on, and keep your dang mouth shut about my kid watching her weight. 

 

And people wonder why girls wind up with eating disorders and body-image problems.

 

 

 

 

[AlmiraGulch]

Wow.  That's awful. My blood would be boiling!

[Joanne]

I would be LIVID. And I would be taking some kind of action. (After I cooled down.)

[mommymilkies]

That is awful.  It is completely unacceptable that their grade be dependent on their BMI, at the very least!  I'd go talk to the Principal and Superintendent!

[maize]

I'll join you in chewing out the principal...

[Greta]

BMI is a pathetic, useless measurement, and I would expect any PE teacher or any health/fitness professional at all to, if not agree with me in that assessment, at least understand its limitations! And to not make it part of the grade. And to not use it to badger healthy female athletes. Ugggh! Yes, I absolutely think you should talk to the PE teacher about it, or the principal if that doesn't work.

I HATE all of the emphasis on BMI. Hate it!

 

edit: spelling

[Lolly]

BMI has been quite useful for my girls. I think they all have done papers for college using it as the subject. I know one used it for a speech. Something so ridiculous makes excellent material for writing/speaking classes. Plenty of information out there to to use as reference material.

 

 

[Joanne]

BMI has been quite useful for my girls. I think they all have done papers for college using it as the subject. I know one used it for a speech. Something so ridiculous makes excellent material for writing/speaking classes. Plenty of information out there to to use as reference material.

 

I am glad I read this in entirety! :)

[Baseball mom]

Oh. My. Goodness!  That is stupid!

 

The teen years bodies go though all kinds of changes and a grade depending on their BMI just makes me :cursing:  :cursing:

[SKL]

I might "suggest" that they teach a revised lesson on what BMI does AND DOESN'T tell us, how it can be skewed for especially athletic people, and what are the more reliable ways to check health.

 

And of course fight the "part of our grade" thing.  That is an outrage.

 

Meanwhile I'd give my 13yo a private lesson at home about BMI.  My athletic kid also has a relatively high BMI for someone so slim and active.  I don't know what she'd think if told to lose weight.  I don't think she could do so without literally starving.

 

That said, I don't have anything against giving girls (and boys) accurate health information they can use to attain / maintain fitness.  I think we are too scared about approaching the subject of weight / fat with young females.  Knowledge properly conveyed can empower them and make a positive difference.  Avoiding the subject never made a chubby girl slim.  (I know OP's girl is not chubby, I'm talking about the general outrage over telling a female student to watch her weight.)  I don't understand the psychology behind this, but I have observed that there are many moms who either don't believe their obese child is overweight, or are afraid to broach the subject themselves.  Puberty is a sensitive time, but it's also a period of growth that impacts long-term fitness.

[Joanne]

I might "suggest" that they teach a revised lesson on what BMI does AND DOESN'T tell us, how it can be skewed for especially athletic people, and what are the more reliable ways to check health.

 

And of course fight the "part of our grade" thing.  That is an outrage.

 

Meanwhile I'd give my 13yo a private lesson at home about BMI.  My athletic kid also has a relatively high BMI for someone so slim and active.  I don't know what she'd think if told to lose weight.  I don't think she could do so without literally starving.

 

That said, I don't have anything against giving girls (and boys) accurate health information they can use to attain / maintain fitness.  I think we are too scared about approaching the subject of weight / fat with young females.  Knowledge properly conveyed can empower them and make a positive difference.  Avoiding the subject never made a chubby girl slim.  (I know OP's girl is not chubby, I'm talking about the general outrage over telling a female student to watch her weight.)  I don't understand the psychology behind this, but I have observed that there are many moms who either don't believe their obese child is overweight, or are afraid to broach the subject themselves.  Puberty is a sensitive time, but it's also a period of growth that impacts long-term fitness.

 

Do you REALLY not know the psychology behind this or the history behind being careful and conscious and kind and conscientious about the choice to talk to *humans* about weight? Or are you just being contentious and contrary?

[SKL]

Do you REALLY not know the psychology behind this or the history behind being careful and conscious and kind and conscientious about the choice to talk to *humans* about weight? Or are you just being contentious and contrary?

 

I'm not sure what your purpose here is other than to be contentious, but anyhoo.

 

No, I am being serious.  If my child is getting heavy, she needs me to talk to her about it.  Of course I'm going to be kind and all of that.  But, as a mom, pretending to be blind to what I know will cause both health problems and confidence issues (and possibly other limitations) is not kind IMO.

 

Sure, I've heard the horror stories about girls starving themselves to death because someone said their thighs were fat etc.  But there is a lot more behind those cases than a kindly intended word from a caring adult.  The vast majority of girls who've heard something about their weight (myself included) did not go on to destroy themselves over that.  When we approach everything from a worst-case perspective, we miss opportunities to help.

[Scarlett]

Lisa I think it is beyond ridiculous they are being graded on their weight!  That is crazy! And it doesn't sound like your dd has a problem anyway.

 

If my teen was heading toward being overweight though I would certainly address it.  We have talked for days on the other thread about how your body gets totally of whack if the extra weight becomes obesity and how much more difficult it is to lose then.  My dss14 is overweight but I am not with him enough to seriously address the issue.  

[kiana]

Graded on their weight? Yes, go in and raise hell.

[Pawz4me]

Oh my word.

 

My blood is boiling just from reading your post.

 

There are SO many problems with BMI.  Not only about using it with athletes, but when attempting to apply it to individuals (rather than populations).

 

And don't even let me get started about grading kids on their weight! :cursing:

 

I would be going after that teacher and the school like a steam roller.

[VaKim]

Graded on their weight? Yes, go in and raise hell.

And if that doesn't work, notify the media!

[Wheres Toto]

Definitely raise hell.  Being graded based on their weight is wrong on so many levels, whether the kids are athletes or not.

 

My -6 days a week dancer- always laughed about how she outweighed half the boys in her classes in high school.  She certainly didn't look it, she was just very muscular.

[texasmama]

My last boss was a marathon runner who does triathlons. He has six pack abs and a perfect V build. Solid muscle and six feet tall. Very low percentage of fat. He is overweight by BMI measures.

[kiana]

Right.

 

But frankly it doesn't matter whether the kid is fat or not. Even if she WERE fat, grading someone (even in PE) on body composition rather than on actually, you know, doing physical activities is wrong.

 

I could see it if it's an elective oriented towards something like the military fitness test (although if that were the case they should be doing a body fat analysis), but not in a core class.

[LisaKinVA]

 

 

That said, I don't have anything against giving girls (and boys) accurate health information they can use to attain / maintain fitness.  I think we are too scared about approaching the subject of weight / fat with young females.  Knowledge properly conveyed can empower them and make a positive difference.  Avoiding the subject never made a chubby girl slim.  (I know OP's girl is not chubby, I'm talking about the general outrage over telling a female student to watch her weight.)  I don't understand the psychology behind this, but I have observed that there are many moms who either don't believe their obese child is overweight, or are afraid to broach the subject themselves.  Puberty is a sensitive time, but it's also a period of growth that impacts long-term fitness.

 

I actually had to start having those talks with my daughter who *stopped eating* at the tender age of SEVEN, because a little girl on her swim team called her "fat"  SEVEN (it wasn't a one time thing, and there were some other issues she was concerned about -- but yeah, counseling for a SEVEN year old about weight/eating/food).  We constantly talk about good choices -- and for the most part, I don't bug her.  But, I have to stay on this.  She is built JUST like I was.  Athletic build, broad shoulders, very narrow waist, narrow hips.  But, she is very muscular.  She doesn't have as much upper body strength as I did at that age, but she didn't grow up playing on monkey bars and doing gymnastics, either.  Given a little time and the right exercises, it will develop.  

 

Growing up (for me), the weight talk always revolved around the number on a scale.  A number that had zero basis in MY physical reality, on some insurance table which assumed healthy women were diminutive waifs who didn't "make" muscle.  I was 16, 5'5", a Varsity hurdler (with large thighs, and got stretch marks from building muscle quickly... I know my height belies the idea of a hurdler, but I was one of the fastest sprinters in my county at the time, before track, I was a swimmer -- and a very powerful sprinter.  God didn't give me distance muscles, I was compact and explosive).  I also weighed 125 pounds, and I didn't look it.   In college, even though I lost inches (during our Phys Ed training), my weight went up. First time in my life I lifted weights.  BUT, my BMI was high.  That was my first run in with BMI.  I exercised more, and my weight...ummm...went UP.  And so did my BMI.  

 

In my mid-20's, I was a 5'5" woman with a weight of 145 pounds, and a body fat measurement of just under 18%.  My doctor told me I needed to lose 12 pounds to get optimal blood results.  I think I cried more after that doctor's visit than any time in my life.  Because everything I did that made me LOOK thinner, actually made that damn needle on the scale go the wrong direction.  Yes, I wound up an eating disorder.  My relationship with food, exercise, clothing, everything related to health is a constant inner battle.  My daughter deserves better.

 

Nutrition information, health information, an awareness of self (notice, I wasn't against taking measurements -- muscle is denser than fat, so, unless someone is seriously body-building, certain measurements will decrease -- and if they wanted a better discussion about body mass, break out the callipers.  There is a way to do this (even privately) and talk generally with the class about healthy ranges for body mass (and nutrition), for girls and boys without focusing on arbitrary (and yeah, I think they are arbitrary) measurements.  Girls naturally have a higher fat percentage that's optimal.  Boys naturally have a lower fat percentage.  Why is that, what can one do -- and can having too little fat be healthy (the answer is that for men, they can become extremely lean without any negative impact to health, whereas women can damage their overall health by being too lean).  To me, that is a FAIR and HONEST discussion.  Yes, women CAN be too thin.  What that looks like will be different for different body types  -- but it is at least a much more objective measurement.

 

But to ever tie a grade in PE to a number on a scale...is wrong.  

 

IMO, the important part of PE is to encourage the development of an active lifestyle.  In other words, participation, and personal development.  PE should NOT be graded on a curve, where only the BEST athletes can get an "A" -- what does that teach our kids?  That they can't be healthy or fit -- so why bother.  Not everyone can run a 7 minute mile -- but why does running a 7 minute mile make someone more deserving of an "A" -- when someone can run every day and NEVER achieve that 7 minute mile (my dad is a runner.  He runs about 3-5 miles every day, and has done so for decades.  He is in excellent physical condition for a 70 year old man -- or heck, even a 50 year old man.  But, to this day, despite running regularly (with and without inclines, on the road or on a treadmill), he cannot run a 7 minute mile.  

 

I'm turning into THAT mom.  UGH.  But, it's for a good cause.

[regentrude]

I'd be livid.

When my kids still attended school, my bar for complaining at school was pretty high. This most definitely would cross the threshold.

Aside from all other dumb things about this, basing a grade on weight is absolutely unacceptable. Who comes up with this sh*t?

[JenneinCA]

I understand that the OP's child is higher on the BMI charts and doesn't have exactly the same problem. But BMI is bad for this case too!

 

I would be extremely upset. My older son, the 14 year old, has a BMI that put him significantly below what is healthy. His doctor and son and I have been seriously working on getting him to eat more for the last six months. Actually it has been longer, but we finally started making progress about six months ago. It has been a long hard slog and we are no where close to done.

 

The last thing my son needs to be told that his grade in a class is based on his ability or not to gain weight.

[Greta]

I have a feeling I'm going to send a strongly worded e-mail to the school principal with some articles on BMI and athletes.  

 

It is certainly within the purview of a PE teacher to give the students fitness targets:  be able to run x miles or do y push-ups or whatever by the end of this course.  But you might point out to the principal that the PE teacher, by advising students to lose or gain weight, is treading dangerously close here to giving medical advice, something which I'm sure the principal does not want to be liable for!  Fitness goals, great.  Basic nutrition, sure.  But telling students what weight they have to be???  Um, no.  That's something that no one besides their doctors should be doing.

 

ETA:  But I still advocate going to the PE teacher first.  

[Word Nerd]

Have you discussed it with the teacher to see exactly what was said? If it were me, I'd send an email asking for clarification so you can make sure there hasn't been any miscommunication or misunderstanding, and you'll have it in writing when you escalate it to the principal.

[Greta]

 a body fat measurement of just under 18%.  My doctor told me I needed to lose 12 pounds to get optimal blood results. 

 

Good heavens!  I've never had a body fat percentage that low in my life, not even when people told me I was "too skinny".  Never been below 21%, and most often been at 23%.  

 

That is a LOW body fat percentage for a woman.  How can a doctor not know this???  I said above that no one but a doctor should tell someone what they should weigh.  I'm not sure how many doctors are qualified to make that assessment either!

[Mergath]

I'd be pissed. BMI is so useless for people in good physical condition, and even for average-sized people, it has extremely limited usefulness.

 

When I joined the military a year after I graduated high school, I had to get a waiver because according to their standards, my BMI was too high. I was anorexic at the time, but I have a dense build and had extra muscle from doing martial arts for a couple years.

 

I looked like this. And they told me I was too fat according to my BMI. Those pants hanging off me were a size six, btw.

 

[Katy]

Almost every professional athlete is obese by BMI standards.  Grading a child by weight is ridiculous, especially when some are through puberty and others haven't started yet.  Those standards were created to estimate the body fat of sedentary adult populations, not ordinary people.  The whole concept is ridiculous harassment.

[Hikin' Mama]

I agree with you that the teacher is being ridiculous! My son has a high BMI because he is very muscular, but about 5% body fat. His coach was smart enough to know that he wasn't overweight, but he had to still go talk to a nutritionist (because of the low body fat) who quizzed him to make sure he was eating well and enough. He eats TONS, but it is all good, healthy food.

 

ETA: This was in a college sport.