Katy Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 From Slate: Josh Duggar's Apology Shows He Learned Nothing From HuffPo: Here's Why it Makes Perfect Sense that Josh Duggar Cheated Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 You know? Never mind. I don't even care enough to argue this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kubiac Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I saw the second one and agreed completely with her thoughts, although I see she is an advocate for open marriage, which is a bridge too far, IMHO. :) To quote the great sage George Michael, "Sex is natural, sex is fun, sex is best when it's one on one." 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 From Slate: Josh Duggar's Apology Shows He Learned Nothing From HuffPo: Here's Why it Makes Perfect Sense that Josh Duggar Cheated Thoughts? Largely agreed with both; especially the second. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I saw the second one and agreed completely with her thoughts, although I see she is an advocate for open marriage, which is a bridge too far, IMHO. :) To quote the great sage George Michael, "Sex is natural, sex is fun, sex is best when it's one on one." Do you mean that for others, or for YOU. For me, "open marriage" means a mutual, recipricol, equally power-ed decision betweeen the marriage partners and also implies honesty with partners outside the marriage. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I'm pretty much done talking about the Duggars. I guess I would not like it if they discussed in detail my parenting, my beliefs, my failures, my kids, etc. Josh will have to figure it out on his own. He's a grown man and the responsibility is squarely on his head, which I think he knows by now. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I'm pretty much done talking about the Duggars. I guess I would not like it if they discussed in detail my parenting, my beliefs, my failures, my kids, etc. Josh will have to figure it out on his own. He's a grown man and the responsibility is squarely on his head, which I think he knows by now. How would he know it by now when he's never actually had to take responsibility for his actions? He molested his sisters and it was covered up and certain groups/people continued to defend him. I'm not certain he will have to take any real responsibility for this either. Why would he when the molestation of young girls is so much worse than this new issue. So, it continues to get talked about and hopefully it helps someone. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermama Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Dipping my toes back in because I'm feeling ornery tonight :laugh: For the first: I don't think there as any possible apology he could make that would satisfy all the various camps. Apparently he (or someone else) realized that, too, when they started editing it after it was released. There's no way he could address Gothardites, regular Christians, the general secular TV viewing public, and whoever else might be reading it without annoying one group or the other. For the second: This is why Christians, of all flavors, should be speaking out against the Duggars. I have no idea who the author is or what her religious background is, but it seems that her main exposure to Christian fundamentalism is through the particular brand of whackadoodle the Duggars espouse. They may act and think they're the spokespeople for Christian fundamentalism, but they're not, and Christians need to stop supporting them. It leads to people tarring all Christians with the same brush and thinking that we all insist on skirts for women and collared shirts for men, courtship and side hugs, and killing gay people. I think there are plenty of fundamentalist Christians (who would pick that moniker for themselves) who have healthy attitudes towards sex and don't view it as shameful or sent by Satan or whatever. I agree that what ATI teaches doesn't fit that, but I think (and hope!) the percentage of Christians who believe what they do is small. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hikin' Mama Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Ya know, as a conservative Christian, I've always wondered if I was a good person or if I even made any sense. Thanks to the second article, I now know the answer. ;) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 This bit in the second article is why I think the parents are equally, if not more, culpable for Josh's downfall. He has desperately needed help for so long and his parents were so busy worrying about their image and their TV show and their commitment to a "religion" that blames the victims of sexual abuse rather than the abusers that they couldn't be bothered to get him the help he needed. Instead they swept it under the rug and "prayed." The parents are the worst of the perpetrators in all of this, IMO, and they deserved to have their entire façade ripped away from them -- along with all of the money they so greedily collected while whoring out their children's lives to the media. 17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcmommy Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Josh is a grown man. He needs to take responsibility for his actions. Continuing to blame the parents is ridiculous at this point. He has all the resources in the world to help himself. He chose not to. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Ya know, as a conservative Christian, I've always wondered if I was a good person or if I even made any sense. Thanks to the second article, I now know the answer. ;) :lol: Just give up on the lying and the religious nonsense! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 As with most broad statements, it would take a little time to dissect the article and separate the truth from the chaff. There were some valid statements and some more far-fetched ones. Overall I am not reading anything suggesting self-control and impulse control. This is something that seems rarely taught anymore and its value is grossly underestimated. Impulse control and self control have proven to go a long way in shaping someone's life, and not just in the sexual realm but certainly including in this area. I can really not comment on this family's child rearing philosophies since I have never heard of the Duggars anywhere else than on Hive threads. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abba12 Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Sigh. All I have to say is, Josh Duggar is not proof that teaching (healthy) abstinence is a pointless and dangerous idea. There's plenty of ways to teach that sex belongs in marriage without teaching that sex is bad. I'm sad that this case of a very screwed up family is being held up as proof against Christians, or proof against abstinence, or proof against.... well, anything actually. The only things this is proof against, is ATI teachings and the Duggar parents. 19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I wonder what the Bates think of all of this. I was watching their show the other night and while I think they practice the same beliefs as the duggars, they aren't as rigged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted August 24, 2015 Author Share Posted August 24, 2015 Anna's brother Daniel is trying to get her out: http://www.people.com/article/anna-duggar-brother-daniel-keller-slams-josh-duggar-on-facebook 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunflowerlady Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I knew she had at least one sibling who had gotten out of that kind of life. Hopefully at some point, they can get through to her and be a help to her and the children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Went to the post the first time and his comments were there along with a couple hundred replies to his comment. When there a second time and they have been deleted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Did some searching. Her brother and sister-in-law are much more mainstream. I'm familiar with the area they are in. Less Gothardite influences. I totally get his anger. He should be. I agree with him. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Hmmm. I'm not sure arguing on Twitter is going to help Anna. It would be awesome if People did a responsible interview in which he could explain what it is like growing up in a cult. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted August 24, 2015 Author Share Posted August 24, 2015 Went to the post the first time and his comments were there along with a couple hundred replies to his comment. When there a second time and they have been deleted. Look again. I just checked again & they're still there for me. ETA: No only are the comments still there, more people have replied in the last few minutes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Anna's brother Daniel is trying to get her out: http://www.people.com/article/anna-duggar-brother-daniel-keller-slams-josh-duggar-on-facebook This got a big smile from me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted August 24, 2015 Author Share Posted August 24, 2015 And now Derrick posted a link to a minister that calls adulterers the worst kind of sinners. http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2015/08/derick-dillard-sending-josh-duggar-a-message-online/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Look again. I just checked again & they're still there for me. ETA: No only are the comments still there, more people have replied in the last few minutes. hmm, thanks. Have no idea why I couldn't find it the second time I looked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsheresomewhere Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 And now Derrick posted a link to a minister that calls adulterers the worst kind of sinners. http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2015/08/derick-dillard-sending-josh-duggar-a-message-online/ That is better than the link to the sermon earlier this week that Jill posted about. That sermon was about how if you don't please your spouse they will look elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Men like Josh Duggar come from many environments. While I do not agree with several positions and practices of the Duggars, I think the most one can say is that kind of family life does not prevent your kid from going off the rails in that way. And that's what it is sold as : prevention. If you do abc, xyz won't happen. While I hope that this is a wake up call that will help some people stop certain practices who might otherwise never have chosen to do those, I would anticipate a "doubling down" in some quarters. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 That is better than the link to the sermon earlier this week that Jill posted about. That sermon was about how if you don't please your spouse they will look elsewhere. Sheesh! Heaven help the woman that is exhausted, has health issues, depressed, etc. So Jill is blaming Anna. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Sheesh! Heaven help the woman that is exhausted, has health issues, depressed, etc. So Jill is blaming Anna. I don't think Jill (I am assuming she is a Duggar?) has been taught any different. Everything is always some women's fault with this bunch. What else is she supposed to think? Her worldview depends on it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I know. It's one thing to be raised to think that way. But to openly post about that sermon on the heels of this...that's just meangirl. 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted August 24, 2015 Author Share Posted August 24, 2015 Actually now that I read a couple different articles about the sermon, chances are they both referenced the same sermon. Pastor made a brief statement that if you're not available you are causing your spouse to be tempted (which is biblical, and not the same as blaming the innocent), then went on to reference at length the way adultery is the worst sort of sin... either way... blech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I know. It's one thing to be raised to think that way. But to openly post about that sermon on the heels of this...that's just meangirl. Personally, I think the family dynamic of the Duggars combined with the lunatic dynamic of ATI leads to this kind of thing. There is so much judgmentalism amongst the women because since they are already so undervalued, the only way to get ahead, to be better, to have any self esteem is to be "better" than the other women. There is a real pecking order in these groups. They had it big time at Borne Christian Assembly (Doug Phillips church) with Beall being one of the primary "discipliners" of the other women for their failings. Guess we can all say that didn't exactly work out well for her!!!! (You can read reports of the pain and suffering she caused from several ex members on Spiritual Sounding Board, but you have to dig for them.) GRRRR...... It is absolutely a mean girl thing for Jill to do, but I think that the way she has been raised inspires meanness. It's the only way to 'get ahead" or to feel secure. It's so dang tragic! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forget-Me-Not Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Here's a different kind of article about it. The real, live guy whose picture JD used on OKC. He sounds REALLY nice. http://gawker.com/meet-the-innocent-bro-who-became-the-face-of-josh-dugga-1726006095 Yikes. Stuff like that is the reason I don't ever use identifiable pictures of myself or my kids as my FB profile/cover page. Hmmm. I'm not sure arguing on Twitter is going to help Anna. It would be awesome if People did a responsible interview in which he could explain what it is like growing up in a cult. I know, right? Is this what passes for journalism now? Screenshots of Facebook/Twitter arguments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forget-Me-Not Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Actually now that I read a couple different articles about the sermon, chances are they both referenced the same sermon. Pastor made a brief statement that if you're not available you are causing your spouse to be tempted (which is biblical, and not the same as blaming the innocent), then went on to reference at length the way adultery is the worst sort of sin... either way... blech. So apparently she's supposed to perpetually pregnant AND constantly sexually available. SMH :mad: 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SproutMamaK Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 That is better than the link to the sermon earlier this week that Jill posted about. That sermon was about how if you don't please your spouse they will look elsewhere. Link? I know I'm just asking for trouble here, but I would be very interested to see how people responded to THAT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 So apparently she's supposed to perpetually pregnant AND constantly sexually available. SMH :mad: I know, right?! How is that even supposed to work? I know some women are interested for their whole pregnancies and fairly quickly postpartum. I am not one of those women though. My husband however wouldn't use that as a reason to go screw around. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Anna's brother Daniel is trying to get her out: http://www.people.com/article/anna-duggar-brother-daniel-keller-slams-josh-duggar-on-facebook anyone else think her expression is scary? (or rather, what probably is behind it?) It looks like she's thinking "am I okay? are you happy with me? are you done yet? can I stop smiling yet? I'm ready to leave." the behind it being - she has to 'fake' what she's thinking and feeling. Sheesh! Heaven help the woman that is exhausted, has health issues, depressed, etc. So Jill is blaming Anna. why wouldn't she? she has supposedly internalized his molestation of her (was she one?)/their sisters. I hope this takes down ATI/gothard - but I fear their truest believers will just double down. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzymom Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Throughout all of this, I have wondered if Anna knew or suspected at some point that something was going on. I am not of the belief that "the wife knows or chooses not to know", but given his admitted obsession with porn/sex and the double life he was leading, I have to imagine the pressure in their household was intense even prior to all of this coming to light. I just feel for her, as life cannot be easy as his wife. ' 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I just feel for her, as life cannot be easy as his wife. ' This pretty much sums up how I feel about it. Anna grew up dreaming about getting married and raising kids. And then she married this idiot. Poor girl- the only ones who seem to have any sense are her brother and sister who have left the fold- and she's probably not going to listen to them. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 To be honest, the fact that she is staying and it is clear that his sexual addiction is deep combined with the molestations including his five year old sister, multiple counts, no professional therapy, I wonder if there isn't possible cause to take the children into protective custody if he refuses to go into a treatment program. I suppose every state is different. Around here, the revelation of the molestation alone would be enough to warrant at least a home visit, if not some regular oversight for a while. Maybe I'm just jaded at this point, but I do think that he might just be perverted enough to molest a daughter. Sad that I feel this way. But, I do. It appears that her brother Daniel may harbor some of these concerns as well as he has appealed to his sister on safety grounds. I think there is a very real possibility that Jimboob is a sex addict, and it manifests through his obsession with illustrating intimate acts with Michelle on camera - the wedding "This is how it's done" kiss - dry humping on t.v., all of the "you can't do this either" demonstrations to the courting adult children, getting the teens involved in fertility cycles and reminding parents that it's prime time to conceive, not turning Josh into police nor getting professional, sex offender therapy for him......doesn't bode well for him. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I think there is a very real possibility that Jimboob is a sex addict, and it manifests through his obsession with illustrating intimate acts with Michelle on camera - the wedding "This is how it's done" kiss - dry humping on t.v., all of the "you can't do this either" demonstrations to the courting adult children, getting the teens involved in fertility cycles and reminding parents that it's prime time to conceive, not turning Josh into police nor getting professional, sex offender therapy for him......doesn't bode well for him. that is just sooooo sick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I have to agree. JB gives me the creeps. Something is off. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Sheesh! Heaven help the woman that is exhausted, has health issues, depressed, etc. So Jill is blaming Anna. What disgusts me about that attitude is that it is reducing men to no more than the urges of their genitals, completely ignoring their intellect and personal morality as any kind of guide for decision making. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I know, right?! How is that even supposed to work? I know some women are interested for their whole pregnancies and fairly quickly postpartum. I am not one of those women though. My husband however wouldn't use that as a reason to go screw around. OMG! Are you saying your husband uses his brain to think, not just his penis??? What marvelous type of creature is this husband of yours?? ;) 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajfries Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 What disgusts me about that attitude is that it is reducing men to no more than the urges of their genitals, completely ignoring their intellect and personal morality as any kind of guide for decision making. See...that's the thing I can't get over. These boys are being told every day of their lives that they are incapable of 'controlling their urges'. That they are victims of Satan, of women, of this wicked world. So it's no surprise that they grow up believing it. If you're told every day of your whole life that you have terrible handwriting/can't cook/whatever then at some point you're going to become a self-fulfilling prophecy (because, oh woe is me! I just can't ____. I'm not even going to try). AND THEN they marry women who feed into it (and go so far as to blame themselves)! "Oh, poor husband! He couldn't control himself enough to not view porn or sign up for an affair! If only I had ______________." No, honey. There are PLENTY of what you would call "ungodly" men who DO NOT have affairs. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Link? I know I'm just asking for trouble here, but I would be very interested to see how people responded to THAT. She tweeted a link to a live feed of their church's sermon: https://twitter.com/jillmdillard/status/635479189009887232 It's the same one they're talking about in the Slate article. I didn't watch the link. Ugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 OMG! Are you saying your husband uses his brain to think, not just his penis??? What marvelous type of creature is this husband of yours?? ;) Crazy talk, right?! It's like he's a new dad, losing sleep and rocking an interesting new baby and shit and not wanting to cause discomfort to his wife who just had major abdominal surgery or something. I call it the "not an asshole" model of husband. 22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I know, right?! How is that even supposed to work? I know some women are interested for their whole pregnancies and fairly quickly postpartum. I am not one of those women though. My husband however wouldn't use that as a reason to go screw around. Aww, c'mon! The women get 40 days if it's a girl and 80 days if it's a boy to be able to refuse relations. That's downright reasonable. ;) 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SproutMamaK Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Aww, c'mon! The women get 40 days if it's a girl and 80 days if it's a boy to be able to refuse relations. That's downright reasonable. ;) I just found out baby #5 will be a boy. I wasn't sure how to feel about it, but you know what? IT'S ALL GOOD NOW. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Not if you're Baptist! My butt was in the pew asap. One time I left church early because I had to go back to the hospital (retained placenta). Orthodoxy, I got my 40 days and loved it! I took it for my miscarriages also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Not if you're Baptist! My butt was in the pew asap. One time I left church early because I had to go back to the hospital (retained placenta). Orthodoxy, I got my 40 days and loved it! I took it for my miscarriages also. Wait, hold up now. Are we talking about church or sex? ;) I hope you aren't talking about sex at church because, well now, bully for you but keep it to yourself, TYVM. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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