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diet for diabetic besides low carb?


MooCow
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Are you type 1 or 2?  If type 1, low carb is the best option for long term health.

 

If type 2:

 

I read an article about several people who used glucerna-type shakes (it wasn't glucerna, but it was high carb with similar nutrient ratios) and reversed diabetes with low calorie shakes in just a few weeks.  The problem was that long term follow ups showed that every single person went back to diabetic in less than 4 months when they couldn't stick to 800 calories a day.  Here's the initial article:  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2385179/I-reversed-diabetes-just-11-days--going-starvation-diet.html

 

There have been reported cases of people reversing type 2 with a raw foods diet in less than 30 days.  Again, this is probably due to very low calories.

 

Several doctors have found that intermittent fasting helps.  Eat whatever you want for one day, sticking to a 12 hour window, then the following day fast.  The thory there is that pulsing insulin makes you more sensitive to it and reverses diabetes.  I can positively say that it didn't work for me, though I probably actually have MODY (type 1 1/2), not type 2.  It seemed to help at first but after two weeks my average numbers were 100 points higher.

 

My sister has found she can handle some carbs as long as she eats protein and fat before she eats carbs.

 

The only suggestion I really have is to try it and see what works for you.

 

I have heard that weight loss surgery works for everyone with type 2.  Again, the reason is probably fasting combines with a permanently lower calorie diet.

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If you're diabetic, you need to limit the stimulation of insulin. If you're not doing it by moderating protein and carbohydrate, you can do it by limitting overall calories. But I've always found that harder than just avoiding sugar and starch except on rare occasion.

 

Any diet that controls energy will control insulin secretion. Some are more effective than others (high fat, low everything else). Something like South Beach or the Mediterranean Diet would also help much more than the standard American diet, and isn't quite as strict.

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It's type 2. I've lost about 25 lbs and lowered my blood sugar from 7.4 to 6.2 over the last year or two. I can't exactly remember, lol. I get so close to under 6 and then I blow it because I just can't take it anymore.

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High fat and protein is what I do. Oh, and if your A1C is below 7, you are doing well. Don't stress over the carbs. People erroneously think that diabetics can't eat any carbs. Of course you can! We need carbs to survive. Sometimes you have to try different carbs to see what your body reacts to strongly. For me,corn chips do not cause a spike in blood sugar if eaten in moderation, so I have been eating guacamole and tortilla chips as a snack lately.

 

When I had gestational diabetes, eating every three hours also helped keep my blood sugar steady.

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Are you type 1 or 2?  If type 1, low carb is the best option for long term health.

 

If type 2:

 

I read an article about several people who used glucerna-type shakes (it wasn't glucerna, but it was high carb with similar nutrient ratios) and reversed diabetes with low calorie shakes in just a few weeks.  The problem was that long term follow ups showed that every single person went back to diabetic in less than 4 months when they couldn't stick to 800 calories a day.  Here's the initial article:  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2385179/I-reversed-diabetes-just-11-days--going-starvation-diet.html

 

There have been reported cases of people reversing type 2 with a raw foods diet in less than 30 days.  Again, this is probably due to very low calories.

 

Several doctors have found that intermittent fasting helps.  Eat whatever you want for one day, sticking to a 12 hour window, then the following day fast.  The thory there is that pulsing insulin makes you more sensitive to it and reverses diabetes.  I can positively say that it didn't work for me, though I probably actually have MODY (type 1 1/2), not type 2.  It seemed to help at first but after two weeks my average numbers were 100 points higher.

 

My sister has found she can handle some carbs as long as she eats protein and fat before she eats carbs.

 

The only suggestion I really have is to try it and see what works for you.

 

I have heard that weight loss surgery works for everyone with type 2.  Again, the reason is probably fasting combines with a permanently lower calorie diet.

 

I know you probably didn't mean to imply that everyone with Type 2 Diabetes is overweight, but it does seem like that is what you are suggesting. Also, everyone needs carbs. Diabetics cannot just  go off carbs. We would die.

 

 

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I just can't seem to stick to a low carb eating plan......it makes me sick.

Would you have any interest in "troubleshooting" this - trying to figure out why it's making you sick and how you might be able to adapt it to make it work for you? Or do you really just want to move on and try something else at this point? Obviously it's entirely your choice, I was just thinking that I *might* be able to help with the former, but don't really know what to suggest for the latter, other than the obvious calorie restriction.

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Exercise after eating can make a tremendous difference. I dropped my after breakfast reading by almost 50 points when I did 20 minutes of exercise on the Wii after breakfast. 

 

Also I found combining carbs with protein and fat helps keep my numbers stable. 

 

Read the book Blood Sugar 101 by Jenny Ruhl and follow her guidelines for using blood sugar monitoring to determine what works for you as individuals react differently to different foods.

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I know you probably didn't mean to imply that everyone with Type 2 Diabetes is overweight, but it does seem like that is what you are suggesting. Also, everyone needs carbs. Diabetics cannot just  go off carbs. We would die.

 

 

 

I'm not sure this is true. It's quite possible to stay alive and be healthy on a very low carb diet. Some people even eat close to 0 carbs and are fine. The body can burn fat, and even alcohol (spirits are 0 carb), for energy

 

Moocow have you tried eating to your monitor to determine exactly how many carbs you an tolerate in a given time window? For me it's about 20 carbs per 2-3 hours. This means I can eat carbs, just in very small portions (although measuring them out gets tedious so I aim for low carb).

 

Also have you looked into cooking, cooling, and reheating starchy foods to create resistant starches? This works with potatoes, pasta, and rice, although I still get bad readings with reheated rice.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29629761

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Also, everyone needs carbs. Diabetics cannot just  go off carbs. We would die.

 

Nope.  You only need carbs if you're on medication that lowers blood sugar.  There are no essential carbs, only essential proteins and fats.  The glucose needed doesn't need to be consumed, your body can make it by breaking down protein. There are, in theory, nutrients that are difficult to get without carbs, though most of those can be found in the right kind of meats, like organ meats.

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Would you have any interest in "troubleshooting" this - trying to figure out why it's making you sick and how you might be able to adapt it to make it work for you? Or do you really just want to move on and try something else at this point? Obviously it's entirely your choice, I was just thinking that I *might* be able to help with the former, but don't really know what to suggest for the latter, other than the obvious calorie restriction.

Yes! I would appreciate it! The longest I've gone low carb was for three and a half weeks or so. I have IBS, so by then my gut is a wreck, and my stomach HURTS. I go into ketosis within two days of starting low carb.

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Are you doing high fat? If you are doing low fat AND low carb, it's no wonder you're struggling.

Want to post what you eat and let us help you tweak it so you feel better?

Just low carb. I eat a lot of meat, cheeses, eggs,spinach,brussel sprouts , strawberries, Atkins shakes, protein smoothies, salads, a teaspoon of peanut butter a few times a week, and homemade low carb " ice cream" and cheesecake. I have a sweet tooth.

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Just low carb. I eat a lot of meat, cheeses, eggs,spinach,brussel sprouts , strawberries, Atkins shakes, protein smoothies, salads, a teaspoon of peanut butter a few times a week, and homemade low carb " ice cream" and cheesecake. I have a sweet tooth.

 

Do you prepare the veggies by adding fat to them?   The meat cheese, and eggs should provide enough fat to keep you feeling full, but adding some butter or bacon fat when you prepare the veggies might help. 

I can't go too low carb or I'm cranky. I just want to give up on the way of eating. So I often choose one meal a day to have a little carb boost.  Today at lunch I roasted several cups of veggies (brussels sprouts, zucchini, yellow squash, broccoli, and half a carrot) in a little olive oil and seasonings. Then I cooked up one ounce of baby bow tie pasta and mixed it with the veggies, adding a teaspoon of butter. Enough carbs to keep me from sprouting horns, but not too much. 

 

You have to find your personal sweet spot. I was pretty strict for a couple of months and then added things back to find what I could have without it derailing my progress. 

 

I have a sweet tooth too but when I started low carb it was drastically reduced. When I would occasionally get off track, I noticed my cravings for sweets returned.  Maybe you could do a trial to see if reducing the sweets for a week or two helps or hurts. 

 

Hope you can find a solution soon- I know how frustrating it can be. 

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All you have to do is to go lower carb, not low carb (below 100 g. of carbs a day).  Do you have a glucometer?  Test your sugars 2 hours after each meal.  Keep your numbers below 120. I can  handle a few more carbs at breakfast than at other meals simply because of how my metabolism works.   I cannot go over 30 g. of carbs at any one meal without getting into trouble.  I tend to do best around 120 - 150 g. of carbs a day.  

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I know you probably didn't mean to imply that everyone with Type 2 Diabetes is overweight, but it does seem like that is what you are suggesting. Also, everyone needs carbs. Diabetics cannot just  go off carbs. We would die.

 

 

 

not true about dying without carbs

 

It's pretty hard to eat zero carbs, but we wouldn't die without them.

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Just low carb. I eat a lot of meat, cheeses, eggs,spinach,brussel sprouts , strawberries, Atkins shakes, protein smoothies, salads, a teaspoon of peanut butter a few times a week, and homemade low carb " ice cream" and cheesecake. I have a sweet tooth.

 

This sounds pretty perfect really.  Maybe get some cookbooks and come up with some new recipes.  Maybe you are just bored with the same stuff all the time.  That helps me a lot.

 

There are tons of veggies you can have no problem besides the ones you list.  There are even tons of recipes for low carb breads.  Have you tried low carb wraps?

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This sounds pretty perfect really. Maybe get some cookbooks and come up with some new recipes. Maybe you are just bored with the same stuff all the time. That helps me a lot.

 

There are tons of veggies you can have no problem besides the ones you list. There are even tons of recipes for low carb breads. Have you tried low carb wraps?

No, what are low carb wraps?

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All you have to do is to go lower carb, not low carb (below 100 g. of carbs a day). Do you have a glucometer? Test your sugars 2 hours after each meal. Keep your numbers below 120. I can handle a few more carbs at breakfast than at other meals simply because of how my metabolism works. I cannot go over 30 g. of carbs at any one meal without getting into trouble. I tend to do Best around 120 - 150 g. of carbs a day.

 

That is such a great idea! I just did it an hour after I ate. My bs was 147, and I had 55 carbs. Way too many I know. And of course now I feel bad for doing it. Le sigh.

 

Thanks for the info!

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Yes! I would appreciate it! The longest I've gone low carb was for three and a half weeks or so. I have IBS, so by then my gut is a wreck, and my stomach HURTS. I go into ketosis within two days of starting low carb.

Ah, IBS does complicate matters. I'm not sure I'll be able to help after all! The problems that most people have with low-carb are either not getting enough fat or not getting enough salt. I was hoping your issue would be one of those - easy fix! :) It could be more complicated than that, but I will say that you absolutely MUST eat plenty of fat and get an adequate intake of salt when going low-carb. The salt issue could be at play with the IBS. I didn't know about the salt thing at first, so I was getting muscle cramps, headache, fatigue, hair loss, and constipation. Then my body would overreact to the constipation and I would have diarrhea. (TMI I know, and I apologize, but there's no pretty way to explain this!). If you've noticed a similar pattern, then if you decide to try low-carb again, drink some salty broth a couple of times a day, and see if that helps.

 

Also, though, gut bacteria do have to readjust to any major change in diet. So eating plenty of lacto-fermented foods (full-fat, sugar-free yogurt, crème fraiche, homemade kimchi or sauerkraut) can help. Crème fraiche is super easy to make, very low in carbs, and absolutely delicious. We eat a ton of it!

 

If you've already tried those things, then I'm not sure what else to suggest, but I will keep thinking about it.

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My IBS does better with cooked fruits and veggies than the raw foods that a lot of low carb diets seem to contain.

Wow, that's an interesting insight, Jean. My Mom has IBS and is doing low-carb. I will pass this along to her.

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My IBS does better with cooked fruits and veggies than the raw foods that a lot of low carb diets seem to contain.  

 

makes sense to me. My brother has Crohn's disease, which some consider related to IBS, but he can't eat raw veggies either. They nearly kill him. He will be doubled over in severe pain. 

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Also, could the artificial sweeteners be triggering the IBS? Espeically if any of them are sugar alcohols. I don't have IBS butmalitol and other sugar alcohols tear up my gut and leave me, to be frank, with awful smelling gas. 

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Also, could the artificial sweeteners be triggering the IBS? Espeically if any of them are sugar alcohols. I don't have IBS butmalitol and other sugar alcohols tear up my gut and leave me, to be frank, with awful smelling gas.

Good point! Maltitol kills me. Splenda? No problem.

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Also, could the artificial sweeteners be triggering the IBS? Espeically if any of them are sugar alcohols. I don't have IBS butmalitol and other sugar alcohols tear up my gut and leave me, to be frank, with awful smelling gas. 

 

And diarrhea.  And stabbing stomach pains reminiscent of e-coli food poisoning.

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Also, could the artificial sweeteners be triggering the IBS? Espeically if any of them are sugar alcohols. I don't have IBS butmalitol and other sugar alcohols tear up my gut and leave me, to be frank, with awful smelling gas. 

Not in my case.  I don't use any artificial sweeteners at all.  But I could see how that could be a problem. 

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Yes! I would appreciate it! The longest I've gone low carb was for three and a half weeks or so. I have IBS, so by then my gut is a wreck, and my stomach HURTS. I go into ketosis within two days of starting low carb.

Are you consuming all your fiber (spinach, veggies, fruits etc.) in cooked form? For the IBS. Also, If I were you I'd try avoiding the "protein shakes" and other non-food, food-like substances and see how you feel on whole (but not raw) foods for a month. You could blend up your own smoothies using nut butters, honey, etc.

 

ETA: I should have kept reading, I see Jean has already covered that fruit and veggie should be cooked.

 

Another ETA: Dairy. Lose the cheese for a month and see how your gut feels. Says the girl who has "I like cheese" in all my *about me*s all over the web.

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And diarrhea. And stabbing stomach pains reminiscent of e-coli food poisoning.

Ugh, that's my IBS. Horrible stomach cramps and stabbing pains and alternating diarrhea and constipation. It sucks.

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 Dr. John McDougall has had tremendous success reversing diabetes and other conditions with a starch-based (essentially high carb but unrefined intact starches), low fat, plant based diet. Starches provide satiety, which is what is often missing from low carb plans. Your library may have The Starch Solution, which is his most recent work.  His message has remained the same for 30+ years...lots of free info and youtube talks.

 

https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/education/free-mcdougall-program/

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Starches provide satiety, which is what is often missing from low carb plans.

Studies of individual macronutrients have shown that protein is the most satiating. Carbohydrates usually come in second, because most studies only look at a two-hour window. Carbs are satisfying short-term, but fat is more satisfying long-term. (Fat is digested more slowly, so the satiating effect is delayed. Carbs are digested more quickly, so you'll feel full sooner, but you'll also be hungry again sooner.) Studies that have looked at combinations of macronutrients have shown that protein and fat together are extremely satiating.

 

People do have problems and complaints with low-carb diets. Lack of satitety is generally not one of them. In fact, you're more likely to hear the opposite from low-carb dieters: that what they love most about it is that they can lose/maintain weight while feeling full and satisfied, and that's not something they ever experienced on other diet plans.

 

I'm not familiar with Dr. McDougall's work regarding diabetes, so I'm not trying to comment on that one way or the other. I just felt that I had to defend the satiety of low-carb diets! :)

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If low carb is too hard, you can compromise with a combo of low glycemic index and brief exercise after every meal.  That could be as little as a brisk walk for 10-20 minutes. Exercise significantly improves your insulin resistance, which in turn lowers your blood sugar. 

 

For instance, rice is extremely high in glycemic index (yes, even brown rice, counterintuitively enough) but oatmeal (especially steel cut oats) is medium.  So oatmeal for breakfast, along with some protein to slow digestion down a bit, followed by a brisk walk, would work pretty well.

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I've had to get to know when my body can handle what type of carbs. At breakfast I need to have somewhere in the range of 25-35g of carbs. If I have less, my sugar tends to go up anyway (the dawn effect). If I have more, I get a spike. After breakfast, I usually have 15-25g for snacks, and 45-60g for lunch and dinner. I tend to not get spikes from natural sugars in fruit, etc, but starches can cause problems UNLESS I have a lot of protein with them. Whole grain toast with cheese can ham is a staple for me and does almost nothing to my sugars. Chocolate, on the other hand, even if it's got almost no sugar in it, puts my sugars through the roof.

I think each person is different. When your body react most strongly to carbs, what kind of carbs, "trigger" food and what makes you feel full, etc, are all individual. Have you noticed any patterns in what foods cause you the most issues, and what time of day you have the biggest problems? Maybe we can help you come up with food ideas if we know what you're most sensitive to and what time of day is most difficult for you.

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No, what are low carb wraps?

 

Most grocery stores carry low carb wraps.  It will say low carb on them.  You can use them to make sandwiches.  I've also used them to make a sort of very thin crust pizza.  I don't know what carb limit you follow, but they can fit in with many limits. 

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 Dr. John McDougall has had tremendous success reversing diabetes and other conditions with a starch-based (essentially high carb but unrefined intact starches), low fat, plant based diet. Starches provide satiety, which is what is often missing from low carb plans. Your library may have The Starch Solution, which is his most recent work.  His message has remained the same for 30+ years...lots of free info and youtube talks.

 

https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/education/free-mcdougall-program/

 

Just watch your levels closely.  I varied between high-normal or low-prediabetic numbers for years on moderate carbs, but 3 weeks on McDougall's plan I felt great but my blood sugar skyrocketed and now I'm firmly in the diabetic range.

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I just can't seem to stick to a low carb eating plan......it makes me sick.

 

What are the exact symptoms of feeling sick?

 

We need carbs to survive.

 

You need glucose to survive, but your body can make its own by breaking down protein through a process called gluconeogenesis. Of course, you want to eat enough protein that your food gets broken down, not your muscles. If you eat few carbs, your body will make ketones and those can be used instead of glucose.

 

 

 

Are you doing high fat? If you are doing low fat AND low carb, it's no wonder you're struggling. 

Want to post what you eat and let us help you tweak it so you feel better?

 

I agree. You can't do low fat and low carb. It's truly miserable and very difficult to sustain.

 

Just low carb. I eat a lot of meat, cheeses, eggs,spinach,brussel sprouts , strawberries, Atkins shakes, protein smoothies, salads, a teaspoon of peanut butter a few times a week, and homemade low carb " ice cream" and cheesecake. I have a sweet tooth.

 

That's not going to work. The protein sounds pretty good, and the carbs might be a little high, but the fat content is too low, unless you're leaving out info about olive oil, butter, coconut oil, etc.

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Also, could the artificial sweeteners be triggering the IBS? Espeically if any of them are sugar alcohols. I don't have IBS butmalitol and other sugar alcohols tear up my gut and leave me, to be frank, with awful smelling gas.

Did not even think of this! I think this might be contributing as well as the raw veggies. Thanks for the tip!

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If low carb is too hard, you can compromise with a combo of low glycemic index and brief exercise after every meal. That could be as little as a brisk walk for 10-20 minutes. Exercise significantly improves your insulin resistance, which in turn lowers your blood sugar.

 

For instance, rice is extremely high in glycemic index (yes, even brown rice, counterintuitively enough) but oatmeal (especially steel cut oats) is medium. So oatmeal for breakfast, along with some protein to slow digestion down a bit, followed by a brisk walk, would work pretty well.

I will give this a try, I love oatmeal and miss it.

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I might be mildly lactose intolerant. Shortly after consuming milk or ice cream or yogurt I have too run to the bathroom.

 

Regarding fat, oil, butter, etc., I rarely use them. Except olive oil for cooking.

 

I seriously cannot thank you all enough for the advice! You guys rock!

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I might be mildly lactose intolerant. Shortly after consuming milk or ice cream or yogurt I have too run to the bathroom.

Mild is cramping and bloating and gas after gorging on unusually large amount of lactose in one meal. Having diarrhea or loose stool after milk, ice cream or yogurt is classic lactose intolerance. 

 

I would definitely go dairy free for a couple months & see how your body responds.

 

 

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Just a thought and not sure if it wod be helpful to you... but I have a friens who did a "slow carb" diet. Six days a week his only carbs essentially came from beans. I am not sure how much fruit he ate. But Saturday was his cheat day. And he ate whatever he wanted in enormous quantities. But he managed to lose 100 lbs that way. I don't know if you're trying to lose weight, but I do think there is something to allowing yourself a cheat day. For him, dieting wasn't worth the idea of never having his favorite foods again. He said he'd rather be fat. But he could wait 6 days for it.

 

Anyway, just a thought. I know it's hard to stay on a strict diet, but I think allowing a splurge (and it doesn't have to be weekly even) it good for the mind. :-)

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