diet for diabetic besides low carb?

[idnib]

Random, non-diet question:  the only fruit I've found that I can eat without issue is a small amount of blueberries, which in small quantities do seem to lower my blood sugar.  So today I'm going through the grocery store and find Dove Dark Chocolate covered blueberries and totally cheated and ate them.  Then I went out in the sun.  And despite eating an entire bag (only about a handful, but four servings & 800 calories per the bag), my blood sugar is falling.  It was at 168 after the shopping.  I laid out for about an hour, then ate the whole bag, then regretted it, and twenty minutes later instead of feeling like I had high blood sugar I felt like it was falling rapidly, so I tested again.  Then it was 128.  What?

 

Since I seriously doubt it could be the candy, now I'm wondering if being out in the sun lowers anyone else's blood sugar?

 

I'll test again in an hour in case it was totally a fluke...  but it was so weird.

 

This doesn't make any sense to me. Before I think about it too much, please pass the chocolate covered blueberries.

 

Yes, I was saying that the protein amounts seem very high at around 100 grams.  According to the WHO, the minimum is 0.75g per kg, so that's less than half of 0.8g per pound.  I realise that these are minimums, but from minimum to twice that amount seems like a big jump.  I don't see the WHO's figures as political in the sense of supporting the beef industry, or whatever.

 

Maybe it's because the WHO number is based on weight and the ones I've been quoting have lean body mass in the formula. That's why I was saying I made a mistake of telling people to multiply 0.8 times their weight, when it's actually lean body mass. Hence my calculator link, which factors out the body fat  and water.

[idnib]

I agree.  I suppose I was doing a bad job of wondering out loud why the stress on protein when the key - in accidental studies like WWII rationing plus many more deliberate interventions - seemed to be 'eat real stuff.'

 

But anyway - I know nothing about diabetes management, so I probably shouldn't have wandered in here.

 

I don't have diabetes either, I just believe there are benefits in keeping blood sugar as stable as possible.  :) I rarely feel hungry and my energy is very stable because my blood sugar doesn't go up and down. Also the body stores less fat if the blood sugar stays low. Based on your stats, though, that doesn't sounds like an issue for you.  :)

 

If you increase the blood sugar too much and your body can't deal with it well, you shouldn't even eat "real" foods that cause that to happen, i.e. rice, fresh-squeezed orange juice, etc. I pretty much only eat "real stuff" but there's real stuff that raises your blood sugar and some people need to or want to avoid it. 

[Greta]

Yes, I was saying that the protein amounts seem very high at around 100 grams.  According to the WHO, the minimum is 0.75g per kg, so that's less than half of 0.8g per pound.  I realise that these are minimums, but from minimum to twice that amount seems like a big jump.  I don't see the WHO's figures as political in the sense of supporting the beef industry, or whatever.

 

I'm quite prepared to believe that needs and preferences are individual, but I do wonder how much our perceived needs are based on habituation: I grew up on a low protein diet, because protein was expensive.  That kind of diet wasn't unusual in the UK at the time.  I don't know that health was worse back then, in fact it's widely reported that nutrition-induced health during rationing in WWII was very good on moderate protein, lots of home-grown veg, including starchy veg such as potatoes, and very little refined sugar.  This was more-or-less my diet twenty years later growing up.

 

But anyway, I'm not diabetic, so I don't have a dog in this fight - I was just surprised by this one figure.

 

 

I'm not familiar with the WHO guidelines or how they derived them, so I'm certainly not saying they're politically motivated.  And I definitely don't mean to sound like some anti-government conspiracy theorist type (believe me, I'm really not!).  But I do think this is one area where the US government has failed the public.  

 

That's an interesting question about habituation.  I don't honestly know how much that could be a factor.  In my childhood, both protein and sugar were plentiful, and sugar was consumed to excess for sure!  I have no doubt that the sugar played a HUGE role in my developing hypoglycemia and insulin resistance.  It's certainly possible that without the sugar, I wouldn't have developed those problems, even with a low-protein diet.  But now that I have those problems, I'm extremely grateful that I live in a situation where protein is widely available, because it (along with fat) is vital for keeping my blood sugar steady.  Well, I'm just rambling now, aren't I?  Anyway, that was an interesting question, to which I do not have an answer.  :)

[Greta]

I agree.  I suppose I was doing a bad job of wondering out loud why the stress on protein when the key - in accidental studies like WWII rationing plus many more deliberate interventions - seemed to be 'eat real stuff.'

 

But anyway - I know nothing about diabetes management, so I probably shouldn't have wandered in here.

 

 

First of all, I'm glad that you wandered in.  :)

 

Secondly, similar to what I said in my last post, I wonder if "eat real stuff" is enough in many cases for the prevention of problems.  But once those problems have developed, a little bit more than that is needed to reverse them.  And that's when you really need to get down to the nitty gritty of calculating your protein requirements, etc.

 

Just thinking out loud . . . 

[Jean in Newcastle]

 

 

First of all, I'm glad that you wandered in.   :)

 

Secondly, similar to what I said in my last post, I wonder if "eat real stuff" is enough in many cases for the prevention of problems.  But once those problems have developed, a little bit more than that is needed to reverse them.  And that's when you really need to get down to the nitty gritty of calculating your protein requirements, etc.

 

Just thinking out loud . . . 

Piggy-backing onto this.  I wish that I had realized that problems had developed long before I was diabetic or even pre-diabetic.  Even as a child (in a country that eats small amounts of meat because of cost and lots of vegetables) I had hypoglycemia but no one recognized it as a problem.  If I had managed my protein/carb/fat ratios better then I don't think I would have progressed to pre-diabetic and then diabetic.  See, no one thought that someone very thin, who ate like I did and who had good labs once a year could have a problem processing carbs but I did.  I'm no longer thin even though I still tend to eat the way I grew up, but insulin helps your body to store fat and thus I have a weight problem that is very difficult for me to budge.  

[Katy]

This doesn't make any sense to me. Before I think about it too much, please pass the chocolate covered blueberries.

 

I think maybe there's a delayed response to exercise in me.  I shopped for an hour and was walking pretty fast most of that time, and that was after a morning workout.  I'm guessing I was on the verge of low for me (105) and that's why I was susceptible to buying & eating candy in the first place.

 

Anyway, ten minutes after I posted the shaky feeling stopped and an hour later my blood sugar was back up 40 points, which is still less than I'd anticipate given 800 calories & 112 grams of carbs in about 5 minutes.

 

I'm also trying metformin again (extended release this time), so it's possible that had something to do with it.  Or not.  I've had this less than three months and it's already so unpredictable it's scary.

[idnib]

I think maybe there's a delayed response to exercise in me.  I shopped for an hour and was walking pretty fast most of that time, and that was after a morning workout.  I'm guessing I was on the verge of low for me (105) and that's why I was susceptible to buying & eating candy in the first place.

 

Anyway, ten minutes after I posted the shaky feeling stopped and an hour later my blood sugar was back up 40 points, which is still less than I'd anticipate given 800 calories & 112 grams of carbs in about 5 minutes.

 

I'm also trying metformin again (extended release this time), so it's possible that had something to do with it.  Or not.  I've had this less than three months and it's already so unpredictable it's scary.

 

This makes more sense.

 

<Puts away chocolate covered blueberries.>

 

You're saying the Metformin is unpredictable?  :grouphug:

[Jean in Newcastle]

Metformin takes a bit to get regulated in your system. (as in a couple of weeks).  

 

Katy, I would guess that your sugar went up really quickly after eating the candy and then because there was no protein, it started to plummet.  

[greenvneck]

Metformin takes a bit to get regulated in your system. (as in a couple of weeks).  

 

Katy, I would guess that your sugar went up really quickly after eating the candy and then because there was no protein, it started to plummet.  

 

I hope it's okay that I'm jumping in here. I was diagnosed w/ T2 about a month ago when I had to go into the hospital for undiagnosed diabetes. I have been on Metformin since then but my sugars have *never* been normal; I'm assuming they are less than what they used to be, but I don't know. If my fasting bg is <200 I'm happy. I'm taking 1000mg at night, was originally prescribed that in the morning as well, but when I take it in the morning I vomit for hours. I'm scared and I won't see my doctor again for another month. I'm eating low-carb, checking bg 7-9x a day (even though doctor says only to do it 3x?? makes no sense to me). I had GD with all pregnancies, my mom and MIL have diabetes, I am extremely well-read and -researched about current guidelines and diets. So when will the Metformin actually help? Is it REALLY a couple of weeks? That's what the pharmacist said, but my doctor and diabetes.com forums say that it can take more time.

 

ETA: I wear a FitBit 24/7 and get at least 10,000 steps a day, take 3-4 concentrated walks a day. I think I'm okay on exercise. I'm losing weight, a little each day.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I hope it's okay that I'm jumping in here. I was diagnosed w/ T2 about a month ago when I had to go into the hospital for undiagnosed diabetes. I have been on Metformin since then but my sugars have *never* been normal; I'm assuming they are less than what they used to be, but I don't know. If my fasting bg is <200 I'm happy. I'm taking 1000mg at night, was originally prescribed that in the morning as well, but when I take it in the morning I vomit for hours. I'm scared and I won't see my doctor again for another month. I'm eating low-carb, checking bg 7-9x a day (even though doctor says only to do it 3x?? makes no sense to me). I had GD with all pregnancies, my mom and MIL have diabetes, I am extremely well-read and -researched about current guidelines and diets. So when will the Metformin actually help? Is it REALLY a couple of weeks? That's what the pharmacist said, but my doctor and diabetes.com forums say that it can take more time.

 

ETA: I wear a FitBit 24/7 and get at least 10,000 steps a day, take 3-4 concentrated walks a day. I think I'm okay on exercise. I'm losing weight, a little each day.

Eek.  Is there any way you can get into the doctor before then?  Have you called them to tell them about vomiting for hours?  Is that a normal reaction?  I mean, I've heard about some tummy upset but that seems excessive.  

 

It was only a couple of weeks for me but I'm on a really low dose and I never really had side effects.  (Please don't hate me!)  

[Katy]

I don't know how long it takes either. I would recommend you call your doctor and ask for the extended release met though.  It's also generic, and the regular kind gave me diarrhea and vomiting for 24 hours every time I tried it, but the extended release kind hasn't had GI side effects.  I can't tell if it's making my blood sugar fluctuate.  I've only been back on it for less than a week.

 

 

The protein theory seems just as good as any other, I had skipped lunch today.

[idnib]

I hope it's okay that I'm jumping in here. I was diagnosed w/ T2 about a month ago when I had to go into the hospital for undiagnosed diabetes. I have been on Metformin since then but my sugars have *never* been normal; I'm assuming they are less than what they used to be, but I don't know. If my fasting bg is <200 I'm happy. I'm taking 1000mg at night, was originally prescribed that in the morning as well, but when I take it in the morning I vomit for hours. I'm scared and I won't see my doctor again for another month. I'm eating low-carb, checking bg 7-9x a day (even though doctor says only to do it 3x?? makes no sense to me). I had GD with all pregnancies, my mom and MIL have diabetes, I am extremely well-read and -researched about current guidelines and diets. So when will the Metformin actually help? Is it REALLY a couple of weeks? That's what the pharmacist said, but my doctor and diabetes.com forums say that it can take more time.

 

ETA: I wear a FitBit 24/7 and get at least 10,000 steps a day, take 3-4 concentrated walks a day. I think I'm okay on exercise. I'm losing weight, a little each day.

 

 

I think you need to see your doctor sooner. Can you call them tomorrow? Or even if they can't get you in, can they call in a new prescription for you and you can try the extended release? 

 

How low is low carb for you?

[greenvneck]

I have talked to my doctor and she said that it's normal and said not to take it in the morning for now. I'm going to ask about the XR when I see her.

 

Low-carb for me is carbs only from non-starchy vegetables. Basically, anything that grows above the ground.

[Carrie12345]

I'm not experienced with diabetes, but wanted to chime in on the protein factor.  There is almost zero agreement on the "right" amount of protein.  Even the CDC gives a range of 10-35% of calories from protein.  In a 1200 calorie diet, that's anywhere from 30g to 105g.  (Higher, obviously, if you're on a higher calorie diet.) idnib's .8g/lb is recommended from many sources (some specifying lbs of lean weight, some overall weight.)  The only recommendation I find laughable is the FDA's at .3-something.

 

This thread is the first time I've ever heard of ketosis being a *desired thing, even for short periods.  Not sure I can wrap my head around that.  (Though, like I said, I don't know diabetes.)

[Jean in Newcastle]

 

This thread is the first time I've ever heard of ketosis being a *desired thing, even for short periods.  Not sure I can wrap my head around that.  (Though, like I said, I don't know diabetes.)

It's not the first place I've heard it but it is not desirable for me.  For one thing, dh works in dialysis and I want to protect my kidneys.  For another, I already have problems with my liver and want to protect and heal that and not make it worse.  So for me, the dance is keeping sugars under control but staying out of ketosis.  

[wapiti]

I'm not experienced with diabetes, but wanted to chime in on the protein factor.  There is almost zero agreement on the "right" amount of protein.  Even the CDC gives a range of 10-35% of calories from protein.  In a 1200 calorie diet, that's anywhere from 30g to 105g.  (Higher, obviously, if you're on a higher calorie diet.) idnib's .8g/lb is recommended from many sources (some specifying lbs of lean weight, some overall weight.)  The only recommendation I find laughable is the FDA's at .3-something.

 

This thread is the first time I've ever heard of ketosis being a *desired thing, even for short periods.  Not sure I can wrap my head around that.  (Though, like I said, I don't know diabetes.)

 

FWIW, ketosis is nowhere near the same thing as ketoacidosis, if that's what you were thinking of.  Most people experience some amount of ketosis overnight, for example.  (ETA, there are a number of websites explaining the difference.  Here is one.)

 

As for protein, I haven't been tracking in quite a while so I can't comment on numbers, but I have noticed that I tend to do better on somewhat less protein than is typically recommended by MFP and such, even after I adjust my carb and fat goals.  If I eat "too much" (whatever that means) protein, I gain.  I presume the right amount varies by individual...

[SparklyUnicorn]

I agree.  I suppose I was doing a bad job of wondering out loud why the stress on protein when the key - in accidental studies like WWII rationing plus many more deliberate interventions - seemed to be 'eat real stuff.'

 

But anyway - I know nothing about diabetes management, so I probably shouldn't have wandered in here.

 

I'm amazed at the amount of carbs some people can consume without a problem.  That has never been my experience.  I do not have diabetes, but I suspect I have reactive hypoglycemia and I proceed as if I do.  Diabetes is rampant in my family as well.  I truly believe that if many type two diabetics followed a low carb diet they could practically get rid of their diabetes.  Not all.  It's never that simple.  My sister (younger than me) has type 2, but she also has issues with her pancreas.  She is stuck between a rock and a hard place because she can't eat certain foods due to her pancreas issues and can't eat certain foods due to her diabetes, but both of those foods are pretty much the opposite leaving very few things she is able to eat.  And frankly I think she just does not want to deal so she doesn't pay attention much to it.  She keeps things in check with drugs including injections and given her circumstances it's probably the only realistic solution. 

 

I'm up and down in terms of how strict I am.  It's hard to be strict, but I do feel the best when I am.  But what I find is that if I were to eliminate meat as an option I get way too much fiber.  I start having major gastrointestinal issues because what is left?  High fiber foods.  Low carb wraps and pasta are fiber fiber fiber.  Veggies, especially the lower carb ones, high in fiber.  All that flax meal, coconut flour, etc...one big fiber fest.  Nuts...  So geesh what else is there other than cheese and meat?  I eat meat regularly, but it's not like I eat 3 pounds of meat in a day.  Not even close. 

[idnib]

FWIW, ketosis is nowhere near the same thing as ketoacidosis, if that's what you were thinking of.  Most people experience some amount of ketosis overnight, for example.

 

Yep. If someone eats lunch, skips an afternoon snack in anticipation of a big dinner, goes our for a steak with veggies and sleeps in the next day, they wake up in ketosis. 

[Katy]

Dr Bernstein's take on protein:

 

 

Take on Ketogenic diets: 

 

[idnib]

I'm up and down in terms of how strict I am.  It's hard to be strict, but I do feel the best when I am.  But what I find is that if I were to eliminate meat as an option I get way too much fiber.  I start having major gastrointestinal issues because what is left?  High fiber foods.  Low carb wraps and pasta are fiber fiber fiber.  Veggies, especially the lower carb ones, high in fiber.  All that flax meal, coconut flour, etc...one big fiber fest.  Nuts...  So geesh what else is there other than cheese and meat?  I eat meat regularly, but it's not like I eat 3 pounds of meat in a day.  Not even close. 

 

If I had to eliminate meat and didn't want too much fiber I would rely heavily on dairy. But I'm not sensitive to it.

[Laurie4b]

Mild is cramping and bloating and gas after gorging on unusually large amount of lactose in one meal. Having diarrhea or loose stool after milk, ice cream or yogurt is classic lactose intolerance. 

 

I would definitely go dairy free for a couple months & see how your body responds.

 

 

 

Or just buy the lactose tablets. I've been lactose intolerant for years and they keep me symptom free. 

 

I am also someone who feels just awful on low carbs. As others have suggested, lower (but not low) carbs might be where it's at for OP. Make sure when you are eating that you combine carbs with a protein and a healthy fat. That helps the blood sugar issues. And as others have said, exercise within 15 min of eating-- a walk will do; just don't linger at the table or go sit down and read or watch TV. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

If I had to eliminate meat and didn't want too much fiber I would rely heavily on dairy. But I'm not sensitive to it.

 

Well I eat plenty of dairy, but it's not exactly a meal.  KWIM?  Maybe some high fat sugarless yogurt, but that gets boring after awhile too. 

 

I like meat though.  I'm not really apologizing about that fact.  LOL

[samba]

Very short article on glycemic index and how it has been misinterpreted:

 

 

http://www.ucdintegrativemedicine.com/2015/05/discover-the-s-h-about-the-gi/