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diet for diabetic besides low carb?


MooCow
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I kind of gave up on sauerkraut because for the best flavor you have to let it age for six months. I'm too impatient! Kimchi only takes a few days, though.

 

I use the recipes in Nourishing Traditions, though I'm sure there are plenty of others out there. It's not difficult, but it is time-consuming. You have to extract the whey from some whole, unsweetened yogurt (NOT whey powder, but liquid whey). Then you shred your veggies, pound them with a mallet, add salt to inhibit the bad bacteria and whey to introduce the good bacteria, put them in a jar and leave them at room temp for a few days to ferment. I will see if I can find some instructions online rather than typing up the detailed recipe from my book.

 

I also use the NT. I make large batches so by the time I reach the last third, it has been 6 months!

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It turns out, if you google "how to make fermented sauerkraut" you will get tons of tutorials and information!

 

Also, I should mention that I think you can make it without the whey, but you have to use more salt, and I think it runs a slightly higher risk of going bad. I always used whey, so can't really comment much on the salt-only method.

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It turns out, if you google "how to make fermented sauerkraut" you will get tons of tutorials and information!

 

Also, I should mention that I think you can make it without the whey, but you have to use more salt, and I think it runs a slightly higher risk of going bad. I always used whey, so can't really comment much on the salt-only method.

 

I tried the salt-only method with ketchup and beets and they both turned moldy. I guess I needed even more salt.

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MooCow, how are you doing today?

I'm feeling like I have low blood sugar, but it's within normal ranges. So, I guess I have to get used to lower blood sugars now. It's making me feel weak, but I'm not if that makes sense. Thanks for asking!

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I'm feeling like I have low blood sugar, but it's within normal ranges. So, I guess I have to get used to lower blood sugars now. It's making me feel weak, but I'm not if that makes sense. Thanks for asking!

After awhile your body will get used to the lower sugars, just like it had gotten used to the higher sugars.  That said, if you start to sweat, get confused etc. then get some sugar pronto.  

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I'm feeling like I have low blood sugar, but it's within normal ranges. So, I guess I have to get used to lower blood sugars now. It's making me feel weak, but I'm not if that makes sense. Thanks for asking!

 

If you have a kitchen scale, add 4g salt to a quart of water and drink it over the next few hours. If you don't, try about 1 tbsp of salt. Also, eat some butter or other fat if you can stomach it. If you can't, try cheese, nuts, or coffee or tea with cream. You have to get enough calories.

 

I'm glad to hear your numbers are in normal ranges. 

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Yesterday: salami, cheese, "smoothie", chicken salad, cucumbers, pork rinds and ranch dip, low carb bread and a smidgen of pb,fajitas w/o the tortilla, a few strawberries.

 

Today: Atkins shake ( woke up late and had to kick butt to make morning activity, then swim).

After I tested my blood an hour later, I had a teaspoon mm of peanut butter and a rice cake. About 10 carbs total. The shake was 2 carbs.

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If you have a kitchen scale, add 4g salt to a quart of water and drink it over the next few hours. If you don't, try about 1 tbsp of salt. Also, eat some butter or other fat if you can stomach it. If you can't, try cheese, nuts, or coffee or tea with cream. You have to get enough calories.

 

I'm glad to hear your numbers are in normal ranges.

Yes.

That low blood sugar feeling is what "low carb flu" feels like. It will pass in a day or two but you probably need sodium.

 

I like warm chicken broth with a splash of heavy cream.

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Yesterday: salami, cheese, "smoothie", chicken salad, cucumbers, pork rinds and ranch dip, low carb bread and a smidgen of pb,fajitas w/o the tortilla, a few strawberries.

 

Today: Atkins shake ( woke up late and had to kick butt to make morning activity, then swim).

After I tested my blood an hour later, I had a teaspoon mm of peanut butter and a rice cake. About 10 carbs total. The shake was 2 carbs.

 

A few things:

 

It's normal to have transient hypoglycemia when you go low carb. Your body needs some time to create the new enzymes you need. Usually it's better in a couple of weeks.

 

Do the salt water thing I mentioned or the chicken broth kitten18 mentioned. If you're too tired for that, eat a chicken bouillon cube.

 

You've gotten enough carbs to keep you out of ketosis. I don't know if that's your goal or not, just letting you know.

 

You might be low on protein. Take your lean body mass, multiply by 0.8, and that's the grams you're aiming for. Too far under, and your body will break down your muscle for protein. Too far over, and your body will convert the protein to glucose. I don't know the number of grams of protein in an Atkins shake, but if I think about normal serving sizes for the other items you mentioned, you've probably taken in about 35 grams in 24 hours. Add in the shake and see how you're doing vs. the calculation.

 

You're doing great!

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Well, maybe my blood sugar IS too low.........88 an hour after I ate

 

That's about my normal. If you aren't eating carbs your post meal blood sugar isn't that different from your fasting level. I had a blood test tuesday a few hours after a protein shake, similar to atkins in that it was low sugar, and my glucose was 81. My fasting blood sugar first thing in the AM is about 80 usually. So right about the same. Doesn't mean I'm low blood sugar. 

 

That said, i bet you need salt. 1/2 tsp in a glass of water is what I do, or I stick a spoon in some "better than bouillon" and lick it...eating about 1/2 tsp of it over several minutes. (I put that much on the spoon then lick it off slowly. i don't double dip!)

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That's about my normal. If you aren't eating carbs your post meal blood sugar isn't that different from your fasting level. I had a blood test tuesday a few hours after a protein shake, similar to atkins in that it was low sugar, and my glucose was 81. My fasting blood sugar first thing in the AM is about 80 usually. So right about the same. Doesn't mean I'm low blood sugar.

 

!)

My fasting blood sugar is one of my issues. Below 80 is difficult for me, heck below 90 is too.

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Actually, that's one of my questions, if anyone has any insight. My blood sugar levels are generally fine after meals, even if I have dessert. However, my morning levels are just a smidge high. Right now I'm on insulin (Humulin N) because I'm pregnant and they want to get my numbers just those few points down. My gasting blood sugar is normally around 100, and I need to get it to under 95. I would REALLY like to be able to do this without insulin, as if I can get off the insulin and control this with diet only, I can use midwives instead of an OB for this birth. (I have some trauma related to OB-supervised births and will do everything I can to avoid this.)

Does anyone have any suggestions for how to bring fasting blood sugar down naturally?

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Does anyone have any suggestions for how to bring fasting blood sugar down naturally?

Try eating a hard-boiled egg before bed.  If your fasting blood sugars are up because of the Dawn effect (your liver releasing glucose because you dip too  low during the night), the protein can help stabilize your sugars over night.  Worth a try, anyway.

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A few things:

 

It's normal to have transient hypoglycemia when you go low carb. Your body needs some time to create the new enzymes you need. Usually it's better in a couple of weeks.

 

Do the salt water thing I mentioned or the chicken broth kitten18 mentioned. If you're too tired for that, eat a chicken bouillon cube.

 

You've gotten enough carbs to keep you out of ketosis. I don't know if that's your goal or not, just letting you know.

 

You might be low on protein. Take your weight, multiply by 0.8, and that's the grams you're aiming for. Too far under, and your body will break down your muscle for protein. Too far over, and your body will convert the protein to glucose. I don't know the number of grams of protein in an Atkins shake, but if I think about normal serving sizes for the other items you mentioned, you've probably taken in about 35 grams in 24 hours. Add in the shake and see how you're doing vs. the calculation.

 

You're doing great!

Is that calculation correct even if you are very very overweight? I'm cant imagine eating that much protein. It's nearly double what I thought I was aiming for. (I have not been diagnosed with diabetes. When I've used a glycometer its always been normal even during pregnancy. However I suspect I'm headed that way and want desperately to lose weight hence the attempt to low carb high fat)

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Is that calculation correct even if you are very very overweight? I'm cant imagine eating that much protein. It's nearly double what I thought I was aiming for. (I have not been diagnosed with diabetes. When I've used a glycometer its always been normal even during pregnancy. However I suspect I'm headed that way and want desperately to lose weight hence the attempt to low carb high fat)

 

Good question.

 

No, it's not accurate if you're very very overweight. It's a curve. At some point the formula, which is based on lean body mass, does take into account additional fat. If there's more than a certain amount of body fat, the formula will not add additional grams of protein.

 

Here's the best calculator I have found. It's a ketosis calculator, but you can add extra grams of carbs if you don't wish to be in ketosis.  Always choose "Sedentary" as the setting, even if you're active, unless you are really active. When you get to the protein section, click around with the "chosen amount" section and find the limits (too low and too high) of what you should be eating. It's based on percentage of body fat. If you don't know yours you can use their estimate or look at the provided pics.

 

I was actually going to mention this to MooCow too. The protein she calculated looks high so I was going to point her to the same calculator.

 

Good for you for getting our in front of blood sugar issues!

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You might be low on protein. Take your weight, multiply by 0.8, and that's the grams you're aiming for. Too far under, and your body will break down your muscle for protein. Too far over, and your body will convert the protein to glucose. I don't know the number of grams of protein in an Atkins shake, but if I think about normal serving sizes for the other items you mentioned, you've probably taken in about 35 grams in 24 hours. Add in the shake and see how you're doing vs. the calculation.

 

 

Goodness, really?  At 132 pounds I would be aiming for over 100 grams, which is more than twice the standard recommendations I see.

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Goodness, really?  At 132 pounds I would be aiming for over 100 grams, which is more than twice the standard recommendations I see.

 

It's the recommendation for low carb, high fat. If you eat low carb and high protein, you're shooting yourself in the foot from a carb perspective. Your body will use the "excess" protein, anything beyond what you need to keep your muscle mass, and turn it into glucose. This will increase your blood sugar. If you're not trying to keep your blood sugar low, or if you're eating enough carbs that your body has what sugars it wants, you can eat much more protein. These low protein numbers are for this specific situation.

 

It's a rule of thumb and everyone is different. People can play around with it. If their goal is to lose weight but they aren't, and they are eating more than the recommended amount of protein, they can try cutting back. if someone has a blood glucose meter, they can simply measure their blood glucose 1 and 2 hours following a high-protein meal and see what happened. They may find they can eat more than the rule of thumb.

 

If you want to keep your blood sugar from spiking too high, you have eat low carbs, only enough protein for basic functions and maintenance of muscle mass, and fat for the rest of the calories.

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It's always been the hardest to bring down, even when I low carb. It's like the LAST reading to go down BUT, this morning, it was 88 !Ă°Å¸ËœÂ±

 

 

Yes, post-prandial numbers respond to low-carb very quickly.  Fasting numbers usually take longer.  But that's okay.  Organ damage starts at 140, so if you are keeping your blood sugar below 140, you're doing great!

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It's always been the hardest to bring down, even when I low carb. It's like the LAST reading to go down BUT, this morning, it was 88 !Ă°Å¸ËœÂ±

 

Sorry, I'm confused. :o I meant why is it difficult for you when your readings are below 80 or 90? (post 120) Or were you saying just getting that low is difficult for you? 

 

88 sounds good to me! Was that before eating anything? What's your typical reading?

 

How are you feeling?

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Actually, that's one of my questions, if anyone has any insight. My blood sugar levels are generally fine after meals, even if I have dessert. However, my morning levels are just a smidge high. Right now I'm on insulin (Humulin N) because I'm pregnant and they want to get my numbers just those few points down. My gasting blood sugar is normally around 100, and I need to get it to under 95. I would REALLY like to be able to do this without insulin, as if I can get off the insulin and control this with diet only, I can use midwives instead of an OB for this birth. (I have some trauma related to OB-supervised births and will do everything I can to avoid this.)

 

Does anyone have any suggestions for how to bring fasting blood sugar down naturally?

 

Did you get a chance to try the boiled egg last night?

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It's the recommendation for low carb, high fat. If you eat low carb and high protein, you're shooting yourself in the foot from a carb perspective. Your body will use the "excess" protein, anything beyond what you need to keep your muscle mass, and turn it into glucose. This will increase your blood sugar. If you're not trying to keep your blood sugar low, or if you're eating enough carbs that your body has what sugars it wants, you can eat much more protein. These low protein numbers are for this specific situation.

 

 

I think Laura meant that the protein recommendation is higher than the standard food pyramid type guidelines - though I could be completely wrong.  If that's what you meant, Laura, then I can say that I've found that for me personally, the US guidelines for protein intake are nowhere near enough for me to maintain any kind of functional muscle strength or endurance!  The US guidelines are a joke.  They are not based on science, but on politics, and they are not even an attempt at optimal but merely the minimum amount needed to avoid nutritional deficiencies.  LCHF is not a high-protein diet.  But it is higher than the USDA guidelines. (Are the UK's guidelines similar?)  And that's part of why I like it!  :D

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88 sounds good to me!

 

 

 

It sounds excellent to me!  I'm not diabetic (reactive hypoglycemic and insulin resistant, but not diabetic) and even after five years of low-carb, my fasting numbers rarely drop below 90.  But my post-prandial numbers never get over 110 now, and they used to go as high as 160, sometimes even 180.  So that's pretty good progress, as far as I'm concerned.  I don't worry about my fasting numbers so much.

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just saw this come up on my fb feed so I thought I'd pop back in to tout veg*n diets again ;)

From the American Diabetes Association

"Research supports that following this type of diet can help prevent and manage diabetes.

 

In fact, research on vegan diets has found that carbohydrate and calorie restrictions were not necessary and still promoted weight loss and lowered participants' A1C."

http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fitness/food/planning-meals/meal-planning-for-vegetarians/

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just saw this come up on my fb feed so I thought I'd pop back in to tout veg*n diets again ;)

 

From the American Diabetes Association

 

"Research supports that following this type of diet can help prevent and manage diabetes.

 

In fact, research on vegan diets has found that carbohydrate and calorie restrictions were not necessary and still promoted weight loss and lowered participants' A1C."

 

http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fitness/food/planning-meals/meal-planning-for-vegetarians/

 

I would love to see the actual research.  With this line if reasoning a person could eat donuts for three meals a day.  They tend to be vegan.  So do lots of packaged cookies and snack cakes.  Potato chips too.  I find it very hard to believe this would not matter for a diabetic. 

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I would love to see the actual research.  With this line if reasoning a person could eat donuts for three meals a day.  They tend to be vegan.  So do lots of packaged cookies and snack cakes.  Potato chips too.  I find it very hard to believe this would not matter for a diabetic. 

 

I think they're talking about Barnard's research. It does not recommend junk food eating. The ADA has full vegetarian and vegan meal plans available. But I think the idea that here's this list of allowed foods & yeah, you do not have to count them & you can eat as much as you want from this list is very appealing to many.

 

 

"This prospective, randomized study compared 49 participants on a very-low-fat (10%), lowĂ¢â‚¬â€œglycemic index (GI), vegan (legumes, fruits, vegetables, and whole grains) diet to a control group of 50 participants following individualized diet plans that included animal products and were based on macronutrient recommendations from the ADA's 2002 nutrition principles and recommendations.22 Those recommendations included the following energy intake distribution and cholesterol levels: carbohydrate and monounsaturated fat together should provide 60Ă¢â‚¬â€œ70% of caloric intake, protein should provide 15Ă¢â‚¬â€œ20% calories, saturated fat should account for < 7% of calories, and cholesterol should be limited to Ă¢â€°Â¤ 200 mg/day.

 

In the vegan group, portion sizes, carbohydrate intake, and energy intake were unrestricted; subjects in the control diet group with a BMI Ă¢â€°Â¥ 25 kg/m2 (all but three) were prescribed an energy intake deficit of 500Ă¢â‚¬â€œ1,000 kcal/day. All participants were instructed not to modify their exercise habits during the intervention period.

 

Both groups experienced improvements at 22 weeks. However, among medication-stable participants after 22 weeks, the vegan arm had greater weight loss (14.3 vs. 6.8 lb, P < 0.001) and a greater reduction in A1C (1.23 vs. 0.38 percentage points, P = 0.01). Medication-stable participants in the vegan group lowered their LDL cholesterol levels by an average of 22.6 mg/dl (21.2%) compared to an average reduction of 10.7 mg/dl (9.3%) in the conventional group (P = 0.02)." source

original study :

 

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/29/8/1777.abstract?ijkey=a8e36d9b1ceec8bb275df272bc8d0f4a9f9dd5ba&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha

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The best sugar control I have had personally has been with a 40/30/30 plan - 40% carbs/30 % protein/ 30% fat.  The Zone diet fits this profile but the one I've liked best is called "The Formula".  The carbs come almost totally from fruits and veggies with an occasional low glycemic grain thrown in for variety but only a very small amount.  The source of protein for this could be meat based or plant based or both.  

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I think Laura meant that the protein recommendation is higher than the standard food pyramid type guidelines - though I could be completely wrong.  If that's what you meant, Laura, then I can say that I've found that for me personally, the US guidelines for protein intake are nowhere near enough for me to maintain any kind of functional muscle strength or endurance!  The US guidelines are a joke.  They are not based on science, but on politics, and they are not even an attempt at optimal but merely the minimum amount needed to avoid nutritional deficiencies.  LCHF is not a high-protein diet.  But it is higher than the USDA guidelines. (Are the UK's guidelines similar?)  And that's part of why I like it!   :D

 

Whoops I totally misunderstood that. I thought she was aiming for higher protein and the guidelines I gave were too low. I was pre-coffee, in my defense. Thanks.

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Whoops I totally misunderstood that. I thought she was aiming for higher protein and the guidelines I gave were too low. I was pre-coffee, in my defense. Thanks.

I can barely speak more than two words pre-coffee! (And there's no guarantee that even those two words will make sense!)

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Sorry, I'm confused. :o I meant why is it difficult for you when your readings are below 80 or 90? (post 120) Or were you saying just getting that low is difficult for you?

 

88 sounds good to me! Was that before eating anything? What's your typical reading?

 

How are you feeling?

Getting that low and so quickly for my morning wake up test is what I was referring to. Lol, sorry for the confusion. I'm doing better today than yesterday, thanks for asking. Ă¢ËœÂº

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Random, non-diet question:  the only fruit I've found that I can eat without issue is a small amount of blueberries, which in small quantities do seem to lower my blood sugar.  So today I'm going through the grocery store and find Dove Dark Chocolate covered blueberries and totally cheated and ate them.  Then I went out in the sun.  And despite eating an entire bag (only about a handful, but four servings & 800 calories per the bag), my blood sugar is falling.  It was at 168 after the shopping.  I laid out for about an hour, then ate the whole bag, then regretted it, and twenty minutes later instead of feeling like I had high blood sugar I felt like it was falling rapidly, so I tested again.  Then it was 128.  What?

 

Since I seriously doubt it could be the candy, now I'm wondering if being out in the sun lowers anyone else's blood sugar?

 

I'll test again in an hour in case it was totally a fluke...  but it was so weird.

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Random, non-diet question:  the only fruit I've found that I can eat without issue is a small amount of blueberries, which in small quantities do seem to lower my blood sugar.  So today I'm going through the grocery store and find Dove Dark Chocolate covered blueberries and totally cheated and ate them.  Then I went out in the sun.  And despite eating an entire bag (only about a handful, but four servings & 800 calories per the bag), my blood sugar is falling.  It was at 168 after the shopping.  I laid out for about an hour, then ate the whole bag, then regretted it, and twenty minutes later instead of feeling like I had high blood sugar I felt like it was falling rapidly, so I tested again.  Then it was 128.  What?

 

Since I seriously doubt it could be the candy, now I'm wondering if being out in the sun lowers anyone else's blood sugar?

 

I'll test again in an hour in case it was totally a fluke...  but it was so weird.

 

huh, that is weird

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I think Laura meant that the protein recommendation is higher than the standard food pyramid type guidelines - though I could be completely wrong.  If that's what you meant, Laura, then I can say that I've found that for me personally, the US guidelines for protein intake are nowhere near enough for me to maintain any kind of functional muscle strength or endurance!  The US guidelines are a joke.  They are not based on science, but on politics, and they are not even an attempt at optimal but merely the minimum amount needed to avoid nutritional deficiencies.  LCHF is not a high-protein diet.  But it is higher than the USDA guidelines. (Are the UK's guidelines similar?)  And that's part of why I like it!   :D

 

Yes, I was saying that the protein amounts seem very high at around 100 grams.  According to the WHO, the minimum is 0.75g per kg, so that's less than half of 0.8g per pound.  I realise that these are minimums, but from minimum to twice that amount seems like a big jump.  I don't see the WHO's figures as political in the sense of supporting the beef industry, or whatever.

 

I'm quite prepared to believe that needs and preferences are individual, but I do wonder how much our perceived needs are based on habituation: I grew up on a low protein diet, because protein was expensive.  That kind of diet wasn't unusual in the UK at the time.  I don't know that health was worse back then, in fact it's widely reported that nutrition-induced health during rationing in WWII was very good on moderate protein, lots of home-grown veg, including starchy veg such as potatoes, and very little refined sugar.  This was more-or-less my diet twenty years later growing up.

 

But anyway, I'm not diabetic, so I don't have a dog in this fight - I was just surprised by this one figure.

 

 

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Yes, I was saying that the protein amounts seem very high at around 100 grams.  According to the WHO, the minimum is 0.75g per kg, so that's less than half of 0.8g per pound.  I realise that these are minimums, but from minimum to twice that amount seems like a big jump.  I don't see the WHO's figures as political in the sense of supporting the beef industry, or whatever.

 

I'm quite prepared to believe that needs and preferences are individual, but I do wonder how much our perceived needs are based on habituation: I grew up on a low protein diet, because protein was expensive.  That kind of diet wasn't unusual in the UK at the time.  I don't know that health was worse back then, in fact it's widely reported that nutrition-induced health during rationing in WWII was very good on moderate protein, lots of home-grown veg, including starchy veg such as potatoes, and very little refined sugar.  This was more-or-less my diet twenty years later growing up.

 

But anyway, I'm not diabetic, so I don't have a dog in this fight - I was just surprised by this one figure.

 

I don't know about that.  I grew up eating high carb too because my parents didn't have much money either.  I had a lot of issues with feeling weak and starved when eating, especially, carby breakfasts.  So for years I just stopped eating breakfast and lunch.  I just ate dinner because usually there was at least a small amount of meat.  When people tell me I'm supposed to not eat much meat it makes me feel nervous.  LOL

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I'm not surpised that a diet based on low glycemic foods like vegetables and beans and such had better results than one that was 40-60% carbs of unrestricted type. No crud, spinach is better for your blood pressure than bagels. Doesn't seem like that study shows losing meat helps, but that switching the carbs to veggies and beans helps. 

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Did you get a chance to try the boiled egg last night?

 

Yes, I did! We went for a walk last night before bedtime, then I had a boiled egg. This morning my blood sugar was (just barely) within range at 94. I went for a quick walk right after testing (probably 5 minutes) because our house was stuffy, and it dropped down to 91. So it's promising so far! I spoke to my doctor this afternoon and she's fine with me trying this out for a week without insulin so that we can see what happens. I'll be checking my sugars a lot (right after waking, right after a morning walk, half an hour after a walk) to see what effect the exercise has as well.

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I'm not surpised that a diet based on low glycemic foods like vegetables and beans and such had better results than one that was 40-60% carbs of unrestricted type. No crud, spinach is better for your blood pressure than bagels. Doesn't seem like that study shows losing meat helps, but that switching the carbs to veggies and beans helps. 

 

Yup

 

Really any diet that moves one from eating a bunch of packaged stuff (which is not always not allowed but more difficult to "count") is going to probably give good results.

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Yup

 

Really any diet that moves one from eating a bunch of packaged stuff (which is not always not allowed but more difficult to "count") is going to probably give good results.

 

I agree.  I suppose I was doing a bad job of wondering out loud why the stress on protein when the key - in accidental studies like WWII rationing plus many more deliberate interventions - seemed to be 'eat real stuff.'

 

But anyway - I know nothing about diabetes management, so I probably shouldn't have wandered in here.

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