Jim Bob and Michelle giving tv interview

[Annie G]

What seemed even more creepy was that Jessa thought she was DEFENDING Josh by saying those things. 

[unsinkable]

What seemed even more creepy was that Jessa thought she was DEFENDING Josh by saying those things.

Yeah, yeah, no doubt.

 

I think there is something to be said to let interviewees talk during the interview, not to play the interrogator too heavily. Just let them speak and see what is said.

[MercyA]

You know, there are many reasons besides prayer that a person of either gender might not be willing to have sex.

Yes, of course.

 

(Edited because I haven't gotten much sleep and may have sounded a little snarky. Sorry.)

[TranquilMind]

You're wrong.  Juvenile ARREST records are supposed to be sealed.  This wasn't an arrest record, it was a police report that stated the statute of limitations had already passed.  Police reports are public record.

 

 

I probably would watch it, but I think it's on UP, and we don't get that channel.  Unless they're moving the show back to TLC?

Victims are never to be identified.  THESE victims were clearly identified.  This is the problem there.  It isn't about Josh, so much as it is about exposing the victims. 

[SKL]

I mean it's pathetic that people have to keep bringing up Lena and Polanski and Hollywood, because I know they're saying," look at all the liberals who molest!!" " where's All the democrat outrage?" This is not a Democrat vs Republican topic, no matter how many try to spin it that way. It's the same asinine way that" why aren't more Muslims outraged" gets spewed when there's a terrorist act.

 

My point was that in other cases, I don't hear the argument that it's OK to re-victimize the victims just because they are famous.

 

[Catwoman]

This is the quote that troubles very much:

 

 

"SEEWALD: No. I think for us our situation is so different than most girls in that he was -- he's very subtle anyway. Like he knew in his mind my actions are wrong and I have bad intentions but he was very sly like the girls didn't catch on, you know. It was like, okay, if you catch the girl sleeping, you know, like a quick feel or whatever. Or it's like, you know, if you're just not really aware, you know, in the situation that happened when the girls were awake, it's like they weren't aware what was happening. It was very subtle. And so I think that for us it's like, okay, we realize this is serious but at the same time it wasn't like a horror story or like this terrible thing or like, oh my goodness, we were like --"

 

Specifically the phrases *very subtle* *knew my actions were wrong and have bad intentions* *very sly*

 

He "knew" he was wrong so he was subtle and sly.

 

What changed in his time away in this regard?

:iagree:

 

If he was "very subtle" and "very sly" even as a 14yo, one might assume that he has further perfected those skills since then, so why would they assume that he is so trustworthy now? Maybe he is simply a more subtle and sly pedophile.

 

I'm not saying that he is necessarily doing anything wrong right now because I have no clue about that, but his sister's statement is concerning to me because he has young dds, and also because he has probably had a lot of access to little girls over the past several years. If I was his wife, I would be worried sick.

 

Honestly though, I still can't understand why Anna ever married him if she and her parents knew about the molestation, and it sounds like they did. If she really believes he is "cured," she may not have been looking for signs of any "very subtle and very sly" behaviors toward their dds.

[LucyStoner]

 

Honestly though, I still can't understand why Anna ever married him if she and her parents knew about the molestation, and it sounds like they did.

For a girl from Anna's family, marrying a Duggar would be like marrying a rock star or prince. Her family faces the real financial pressures of super large family, one income and limited education and here the Duggars are with a 7000sf home and money and a TV show. Far more IFB ATI followers live in cramped spaces with out enough grocery money than live like the Duggars or even comfortably middle class. And if you consider all sins, sexual and not as the same, she truly could just not grasp the risks.

[Annie G]

For a girl from Anna's family, marrying a Duggar would be like marrying a rock star or prince. Her family faces the real financial pressures of super large family, one income and limited education and here the Duggars are with a 7000sf home and money and a TV show. Far more IFB ATI followers live in cramped spaces with out enough grocery money than live like the Duggars or even comfortably middle class. And if you equate all sins, sexual and not as the same, she truly could just not grasp the risks.

 

Anna's sister Priscilla married ATI royalty, David Waller. In her family, I think David is held in higher esteem than the Duggars are. Well, I mean even before this came out- of course now nearly anyone is seen as a  better catch than Josh was. 

[umsami]

This is a great article...19 questions with the gay journalist who brought down the Duggars

 

http://www.advocate.com/arts-entertainment/television/2015/06/04/19-questions-gay-journalist-who-brought-down-duggars

 

Love this...

 

"Are you, like many gay men, fixated on Michelle's hair?

Michelle sports the classic mullet — short in the front, long in the back — but she admitted she never heard the term "mullet" before. She also said her hairdo is all about pleasing her husband, Jim Bob. I guess all I can say is, bless her heart. "

[LizzyBee]

Well, I've had great experiences with ones in my area.  We've seen a family counselor, my oldest has seen both a psychologist and a psychiatrist, there were great resources from a social worker at our local hospital.  So are you really suggesting someone with a serious issue like a teen molesting little kids shouldn't seek out any professional mental health resources at all?  How do you justify that in your mind?

 

I live in a medical mecca. People come here from all over the world for our medical facilities. But mental health is a mess, and I guarantee that if it's that bad here, it's worse in most other places. Friends of ours took their son to a facility said to be have stellar care for the mentally ill. They have good insurance, so they could afford the best. The reality was another story. The room was dirty, it took days to get him seen by a psychiatrist, *care* was just not an appropriate word for what happened there. He was safer at home (from himself) than in the hospital. One of the major hospitals in our city is undergoing a review of their policies because of the their treatment of a violent and dangerous mental health patient. The procedure apparently is to hold mental health patients in the ER until a placement in a mental health facility is available, a process which I think is not supposed to take more than 2-3 days. There's a severe shortage of placements, so this patient was held under guard in the ER for something like 20 days. Apparently, he was not treated appropriately, but at the same time, a regular hospital is not prepared to deal with long term violent patients because that's not their purpose. Our friends who had a self-destructive, repeated runaway daughter were never able to obtain good care for her. She would be held 48 hours to stabilize her, but there was never a placement available for long term treatment. Our friends who fostered-to-adopt are on the verge of a nervous breakdown from dealing with their violent young children with no support. They are desperate to get help for the kids and respite for themselves. There is money allotted for in-home assistance, but no-one will take the hours because the kids are just too hard, and there are not enough residential placements available. So the hospitals and doctors just send them home. For those who do find care, the quality can be a crapshoot. People who have been here a long time will remember the boardie whose daughter was traumatized by her mental health care; she was harmed rather than helped. 

 

I'm not saying the Duggars couldn't or shouldn't have done much more than they did. I'm just saying that in most places in the US, the mental health system is woefully inadequate.

[SKL]

You make this sound so easy though.  If one of my kids did this, I would of course do whatever it took to deal with the situation, but I do not have anywhere to send my kids.  And they are my kids so this would not be so simple.  He touched his siblings.  He did not rape his siblings.  Right?  Not saying that's better, but that is different. 

 

And you'd be surprised what "professionals" do in these instances.  They don't always send people away.  I know this for a fact and from a personal experience. 

 

Right, and "licensed non-ATI counselors" don't always produce optimal outcomes.  There are millions of offenders who have had counseling / other "official" interventions and didn't come out better people (often quite the opposite).  Is there even any evidence that a certain type of counseling provides reliable results?  Frankly I trust locks on the doors over counselors any day.

[Audrey]

This is the quote that troubles very much:

 

 

"SEEWALD: No. I think for us our situation is so different than most girls in that he was -- he's very subtle anyway. Like he knew in his mind my actions are wrong and I have bad intentions but he was very sly like the girls didn't catch on, you know. It was like, okay, if you catch the girl sleeping, you know, like a quick feel or whatever. Or it's like, you know, if you're just not really aware, you know, in the situation that happened when the girls were awake, it's like they weren't aware what was happening. It was very subtle. And so I think that for us it's like, okay, we realize this is serious but at the same time it wasn't like a horror story or like this terrible thing or like, oh my goodness, we were like --"

 

Specifically the phrases *very subtle* *knew my actions were wrong and have bad intentions* *very sly*

 

He "knew" he was wrong so he was subtle and sly.

 

What changed in his time away in this regard?

 

Aside from the fact that there is not a single complete sentence in that entire paragraph you quoted, the most heinous thing is that he's essentially dismissing his wife's molestation and defending her attacker. 

 

I argue that no man worth his wedding ring would ever, ever do that.

[unsinkable]

Aside from the fact that there is not a single complete sentence in that entire paragraph you quoted, the most heinous thing is that he's essentially dismissing his wife's molestation and defending her attacker.

 

I argue that no man worth his wedding ring would ever, ever do that.

It is a quote from Jessa Seewald, that I C&Ped from the transcript of the oral interview.

[SKL]

Aside from the fact that there is not a single complete sentence in that entire paragraph you quoted, the most heinous thing is that he's essentially dismissing his wife's molestation and defending her attacker. 

 

I argue that no man worth his wedding ring would ever, ever do that.

 

I got the impression they were making the point that *she* wasn't much affected by the incident.

 

I do not get the impression those words were said to make Josh seem like a good guy.  It would be an odd choice of language if that were the goal.

[Audrey]

It is a quote from Jessa Seewald, that I C&Ped from the transcript of the oral interview.

 

Oh.  I misunderstood that.

 

It makes it even creepier that SHE is defending him, but I guess I would have expected her to have been coached to do that.  One would have hoped she'd have been able to string together a few better sentences.

[Annie G]

I got the impression they were making the point that *she* wasn't much affected by the incident.

 

I do not get the impression those words were said to make Josh seem like a good guy.  It would be an odd choice of language if that were the goal.

 

Seeing the interview vs. reading the transcript is why you can't really tell she was trying to defend him. She considers this a mistake that her brother made because he was curious about girls. She actually said that.  That's why it IS an odd choice of language.  

 

She said his actions were wrong, but she was much more emphatic that it was just a boyish mistake and that he's not a child molester. 

[CAMom]

Aside from the fact that there is not a single complete sentence in that entire paragraph you quoted, the most heinous thing is that he's essentially dismissing his wife's molestation and defending her attacker.

 

I argue that no man worth his wedding ring would ever, ever do that.

I'm pretty sure that quote was actually from Jessa not her husband. She said it during the MK interview on Friday.

 

ETA: Should have hit "refresh" and read the next few posts before I responded. :)

[SKL]

Seeing the interview vs. reading the transcript is why you can't really tell she was trying to defend him. She considers this a mistake that her brother made because he was curious about girls. She actually said that.  That's why it IS an odd choice of language.  

 

She said his actions were wrong, but she was much more emphatic that it was just a boyish mistake and that he's not a child molester. 

 

Well, she has lived with him since he came back from the "mentor camp" or whatever, right?  She would know better than the rest of us whether he outgrew his foolishness or not.  "He's a child molester" would be appropriate if he continued to do it, but we do not have any evidence that he did.

 

Of course it is each person's choice to believe or disbelieve what this woman is saying (or reserve our opinion), but she is the one who knows the truth.  Not us.

 

[unsinkable]

Well, she has lived with him since he came back from the "mentor camp" or whatever, right? She would know better than the rest of us whether he outgrew his foolishness or not. "He's a child molester" would be appropriate if he continued to do it, but we do not have any evidence that he did.

 

Of course it is each person's choice to believe or disbelieve what this woman is saying (or reserve our opinion), but she is the one who knows the truth. Not us.

 

My point was his sister said he was subtle and sly BEFORE* he was caught, even when he knew it was wrong. She could very well believe he stopped when he HADN'T,* in fact, stopped but only became more subtle and sly upon his return.

 

Edited to add: I believe she believes it, or wants to believe it.

 

*CAPS for emPHAsis, not yelling.

[MercyA]

One would have hoped she'd have been able to string together a few better sentences.

 

That doesn't seem like a very kind or necessary thing to say. I doubt many people would be perfectly articulate while discussing such a personal and uncomfortable topic. 

[Audrey]

That doesn't seem like a very kind or necessary thing to say. I doubt many people would be perfectly articulate while discussing such a personal and uncomfortable topic. 

I think it speaks to the lies. When someone is lying, they often speak in circuitous, rambling non-sentences like that. 

[MercyA]

I think it speaks to the lies. When someone is lying, they often speak in circuitous, rambling non-sentences like that. 

 

Hmm. That seems like quite a leap. 

 

I once had someone ask me if I was on drugs because I was speaking so quickly. No, I was just very nervous.  :o 

 

I think we should be careful of making harsh judgements based on someone's speech patterns.  

 

I probably should watch the interview.  I've only read parts of the transcript.

[Annie G]

Well, she has lived with him since he came back from the "mentor camp" or whatever, right?  She would know better than the rest of us whether he outgrew his foolishness or not.  "He's a child molester" would be appropriate if he continued to do it, but we do not have any evidence that he did.

 

Of course it is each person's choice to believe or disbelieve what this woman is saying (or reserve our opinion), but she is the one who knows the truth.  Not us.

 

 

I don't think I was commenting on whether he outgrew his 'foolishness'. 

 

I don't think he's continued to fondle girls. But isn't child molester a moniker that sticks, like a murderer?  

[SKL]

I don't think he's continued to fondle girls. But isn't child molester a moniker that sticks, like a murderer?  

 

I don't think people interpret them the same way.  I think when people say "he's a child molester," everyone assumes he is still preying on kids (or trying to) and can't be allowed around any.  When people hear "he's a murderer," they don't assume he's going to kill again or that it isn't safe to be around him.

[SKL]

I think it speaks to the lies. When someone is lying, they often speak in circuitous, rambling non-sentences like that. 

 

Calling her a liar because she doesn't describe HER experience the way YOU want her to remember it seems ... uncharitable at best.

 

[Catwoman]

I don't think people interpret them the same way. I think when people say "he's a child molester," everyone assumes he is still preying on kids (or trying to) and can't be allowed around any. When people hear "he's a murderer," they don't assume he's going to kill again or that it isn't safe to be around him.

If someone said I should meet Bob, who is a really great guy except for that whole "he's a murderer" thing from his past... I can pretty much guarantee you I would pass on meeting Bob.

 

Because, you know, he's a murderer.

 

Why would people assume a murderer wouldn't kill again? :confused:

[Shahrazad]

Well, she has lived with him since he came back from the "mentor camp" or whatever, right?  She would know better than the rest of us whether he outgrew his foolishness or not.  "He's a child molester" would be appropriate if he continued to do it, but we do not have any evidence that he did.

 

Of course it is each person's choice to believe or disbelieve what this woman is saying (or reserve our opinion), but she is the one who knows the truth.  Not us.

 

 

I don't think people interpret them the same way.  I think when people say "he's a child molester," everyone assumes he is still preying on kids (or trying to) and can't be allowed around any.  When people hear "he's a murderer," they don't assume he's going to kill again or that it isn't safe to be around him.

 

 

Please give it a rest with the linguistic acrobatics to defend a child molester. He may not still be preying on kids. He may still BE praying on kids. We do not know. We DO know that he has a history of preying on kids and it was escalating even after getting caught yet we should somehow believe that this sly, subtle, guy just decided to randomly and completely stop on his own. Why should he be allowed around kids with history? I certainly wouldn't want him around mine!

 

BTW, sexually assaulting your sisters is not "foolishness", it is a crime.

[Catwoman]

Please give it a rest with the linguistic acrobatics to defend a child molester. He may not still be preying on kids. He may still BE praying on kids. We do not know. We DO know that he has a history of preying on kids and it was escalating even after getting caught yet we should somehow believe that this sly, subtle, guy just decided to randomly and completely stop on his own. Why should he be allowed around kids with history? I certainly wouldn't want him around mine!

 

BTW, sexually assaulting your sisters is not "foolishness", it is a crime.

I think that is such an important point.

 

Even if he did stop molesting girls when he was a teenager, how many of us would really put Josh Duggar on the list of appropriate babysitters for our children? Would we really be willing to take a chance and trust him at his word? I know I wouldn't. I wouldn't leave him alone with a child for a single minute. Call me paranoid, but I wouldn't take the risk. I might *want* to believe he was cured, but I wouldn't *trust* that he was cured, KWIM?

 

And I hope SKL was quoting the "foolishness" thing as the way his sister described his actions, and not as the way she thinks of it. I thought everyone here was in agreement that Josh's behavior went far, far beyond anything that could be considered "foolishness," and can't imagine anyone minimizing child molestation in that way.

[SKL]

If someone said I should meet Bob, who is a really great guy except for that whole "he's a murderer" thing from his past... I can pretty much guarantee you I would pass on meeting Bob.

 

Because, you know, he's a murderer.

 

Why would people assume a murderer wouldn't kill again? :confused:

 

 

Because usually murder is a crime of passion.  Serial murderers are pretty rare.

 

We've hired and worked with murderers.  I am not afraid of them.

 

[SKL]

Please give it a rest with the linguistic acrobatics to defend a child molester. He may not still be preying on kids. He may still BE praying on kids. We do not know. We DO know that he has a history of preying on kids and it was escalating even after getting caught yet we should somehow believe that this sly, subtle, guy just decided to randomly and completely stop on his own. Why should he be allowed around kids with history? I certainly wouldn't want him around mine!

 

I guarantee some people in your life did the same thing and you would never guess it.  I guarantee some of the people you allow around your kids have a similar history.

 

[Catwoman]

Because usually murder is a crime of passion. Serial murderers are pretty rare.

 

We've hired and worked with murderers. I am not afraid of them.

 

Your company just hires random murderers? And not just one murderer, but more than that? And everyone is just fine with that?

 

I'm sorry, but that seems very farfetched to me.

[SKL]

Please give it a rest with the linguistic acrobatics to defend a child molester. He may not still be preying on kids. He may still BE praying on kids. We do not know. We DO know that he has a history of preying on kids and it was escalating even after getting caught yet we should somehow believe that this sly, subtle, guy just decided to randomly and completely stop on his own. Why should he be allowed around kids with history? I certainly wouldn't want him around mine!

 

First, he had more intervention than a lot of people who are never reported to their parents or anyone else.

 

Second, yes, statistically it is very likely that he stopped and never did it as an older teen or adult.  Even if we did not have the word of the sisters, parents, etc. that would be the most likely scenario.

[SKL]

Your company just hires random murderers? And not just one murderer, but more than that? And everyone is just fine with that?

 

I'm sorry, but that seems very farfetched to me.

 

Please don't call me a liar again.

 

Ex-convicts need jobs.

[Shahrazad]

I guarantee some people in your life did the same thing and you would never guess it.  I guarantee some of the people you allow around your kids have a similar history.

 

 

That is a pretty heavy statement for someone who knows nothing about me, my life, or who my kids are around. You know what happens when you assume, don't you? What a worthless guarantee.  :laugh:

[Shahrazad]

It is weird that you think it would be normal for everyone to have someone close to them and their kids who've sexually assaulted a little, prepubescent girl. Puzzling.

[umsami]

Changing tone of things hopefully....

 

1) Which Duggar, if any, would you like to dress in a kilt?  Would a kilt be considered modest for a man?  Is it defrauding? ;)

 

2) Which Duggar would make the best cupcake?   What would you name your Duggar inspired cupcake and what flavor would it be?  Do tater tots ever go in Cupcakes?

[Catwoman]

Please don't call me a liar again.

 

Ex-convicts need jobs.

Maybe you should start a poll and ask how many people here have worked with multiple convicted murderers at their jobs in law firms or accounting firms or in other offices. I'll bet you are among a very select few.

[Catwoman]

Changing tone of things hopefully....

 

1) Which Duggar, if any, would you like to dress in a kilt? Would a kilt be considered modest for a man? Is it defrauding? ;)

 

2) Which Duggar would make the best cupcake? What would you name your Duggar inspired cupcake and what flavor would it be? Do tater tots ever go in Cupcakes?

Well, thanks for nothing, umsami. :D

 

I just read your post and got a mental picture of Jim Bob Duggar in a kilt.

 

:ack2: :ack2: :ack2:

[SKL]

Maybe you should start a poll and ask how many people here have worked with multiple convicted murderers at their jobs in law firms or accounting firms or in other offices. I'll bet you are among a very select few.

 

How would they know?

 

As an employer, whose partner distrusts and googles all new people we do business with, I have access to information that most people do not have about their co-workers.

 

Though, I did previously work in a company that specifically contracted with the prisons for a work program.  And yes, I was OK with that.

[Annie G]

Changing tone of things hopefully....

 

1) Which Duggar, if any, would you like to dress in a kilt?  Would a kilt be considered modest for a man?  Is it defrauding? ;)

 

2) Which Duggar would make the best cupcake?   What would you name your Duggar inspired cupcake and what flavor would it be?  Do tater tots ever go in Cupcakes?

The Duggar guys do not wear shorts.  When the family visited Scotland, Jim Bob was bullied into wearing a kilt (by some Scottish guys) and he did put it on but it was clear he did not want to.   

 

I'll have to do some thinking on the cupcake question. 

[SKL]

Maybe you should start a poll and ask how many people here have worked with multiple convicted murderers at their jobs in law firms or accounting firms or in other offices. I'll bet you are among a very select few.

 

I'm not sure why you assume I am working at a law firm or accounting firm or that all of our employees are office workers.  Though, office workers could have a history of killing also.

 

[Annie G]

Ok, I have the only rational choice for a signature cupcake flavor for the Duggar females.  It has so be something heavily coffee infused, for several reasons. One is that the older girls and Michelle always seem to be drinking coffee or going out for coffee. And the girls do the vast majority of the real work in that house, so a heavily caffeinated cupcake will provide them with enough jitters to keep going like the Energizer Bunny (I'm talking to you, Jinger, who does 40 loads of laundry a week!).  

Munching on coffee flavored cupcakes with a mocha coffee buttercream topped with an espresso bean is a nice bedtime snack. 

 

Not nearly as creative as a tater tot casserole cupcake or chicken-etti cupcake, but the girls have it tough enough- let's give them a tasty cupcake!

 

 

[Catwoman]

Ok, I have the only rational choice for a signature cupcake flavor for the Duggar females. It has so be something heavily coffee infused, for several reasons. One is that the older girls and Michelle always seem to be drinking coffee or going out for coffee. And the girls do the vast majority of the real work in that house, so a heavily caffeinated cupcake will provide them with enough jitters to keep going like the Energizer Bunny (I'm talking to you, Jinger, who does 40 loads of laundry a week!).

Munching on coffee flavored cupcakes with a mocha coffee buttercream topped with an espresso bean is a nice bedtime snack.

 

Not nearly as creative as a tater tot casserole cupcake or chicken-etti cupcake, but the girls have it tough enough- let's give them a tasty cupcake!

I could go for a cupcake right now.

 

I would like to offer a ceremonial cupcake to SKL, as well, because I don't want to argue any more and I would rather just be friendly. How about it, SKL? I'm willing to let it go and move on, how about you? :)

[*Lulu*]

I guarantee some people in your life did the same thing and you would never guess it. I guarantee some of the people you allow around your kids have a similar history.

 

I have a serious question.

 

In other threads about sexual assault you have been pretty clear that you believe being falsely accused is a serious possibility facing men and that sexual assault/abuse statistics are overblown.

 

Do you honestly think the odds are that we all have people in our loves with histories of committing sexual abuse of some form?

 

If you do, how does that line up with the worry about the false accusal of men?

 

No snark. I am very curious to hear your thoughts.

[Xahm]

Regarding the word "foolishness," I disagree with it as well, but those in the ATI circles are probably using a little, or very, differently than you or I. At least some people in those circles draw heavily on Proverbs like "A fool says in his heart there is no God" and "Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child but the rod of correction will drive it far from him" and view "foolishness" as a very serious thing. I hope that's how she was meaning it, anyway.

[zoobie]

I'm not sure why you assume I am working at a law firm or accounting firm or that all of our employees are office workers. Though, office workers could have a history of killing also.

 

Assuming a lawyer works for a law firm isn't that crazy of a leap.

 

Our firm runs background checks on potential employees. We have had a couple of assistants with DUIs, but I don't remember anyone with anything serious. Oh, when DH was an ADA, they had guys from the local prison cleaning their office. I thought that was strange. He helped get a guy out of jail who had finished his sentence but for some reason never got released. The public defender's office was overwhelmed. He was in jail for manslaughter. They didn't stay in touch. Can't say I'd want to hire him to work for us now.

[zoobie]

The Duggar guys do not wear shorts. When the family visited Scotland, Jim Bob was bullied into wearing a kilt (by some Scottish guys) and he did put it on but it was clear he did not want to.

 

I'll have to do some thinking on the cupcake question.

Nike! It would be a Nike cupcake!

[SKL]

I have a serious question.

 

In other threads about sexual assault you have been pretty clear that you believe being falsely accused is a serious possibility facing men and that sexual assault/abuse statistics are overblown.

 

Do you honestly think the odds are that we all have people in our loves with histories of committing sexual abuse of some form?

 

If you do, how does that line up with the worry about the false accusal of men?

 

No snark. I am very curious to hear your thoughts.

 

Yes.  The % of kids who have been molested by close relatives is easy to find.  It is also clear that a high % are never officially reported.  In addition I can easily think of a list of people I know personally who have had this happen to them (males and females).  And you can't tell by looking at a person whether they have done that, especially if it was something they did only while they were young teens and have not done it since.

 

And as for the false accusations, there are plenty of documented cases of that, as well as at least one person I know IRL who was falsely accused of rape.

 

In fact, I can and do believe that both of the following are true at the same time:  there are rape victims who never report, and there are rape accusations which are false.  Neither the unreported crimes nor the false reports are acceptable.  One can (and should) be opposed to both.

 

That said, I don't consider adult-on-adult rape to be comparable to sibling-on-sibling molestation (touching) where the perp is 14-15yo or younger.

 

ETA I don't recall saying child sexual abuse statistics are overblown.  I do recall saying that about college students because that was backed up by a published study or analysis as well as my personal experience.

[umsami]

Nike! It would be a Nike cupcake!

 

Uh oh, trademark violation cupcake!  But yeah....I think I've been defrauded by some over-the-top cupcakes.  When I lived in Jacksonville, there was this place called Cami Cakes...and she made amazing cupcakes.  After I had given birth to one of my kids, my neighbor showed up with two of them in a box for me.  She is still my favorite neighbor of all time. :)

 

Ok, I have the only rational choice for a signature cupcake flavor for the Duggar females.  It has so be something heavily coffee infused, for several reasons. One is that the older girls and Michelle always seem to be drinking coffee or going out for coffee. And the girls do the vast majority of the real work in that house, so a heavily caffeinated cupcake will provide them with enough jitters to keep going like the Energizer Bunny (I'm talking to you, Jinger, who does 40 loads of laundry a week!).  

Munching on coffee flavored cupcakes with a mocha coffee buttercream topped with an espresso bean is a nice bedtime snack. 

 

Not nearly as creative as a tater tot casserole cupcake or chicken-etti cupcake, but the girls have it tough enough- let's give them a tasty cupcake!

 

I want that cupcake.  I love coffee-flavored everything, but not actual coffee. (Strange, I know.)   Maybe the cupcake name should start with a "J"....so Jinger's Jammin' Java J-licious Cupcake?   (Can I confess that even though I know it's supposed to be pronounced Ginger, I always say in my mind, "Jinger"....like rhymes with ding.   

[umsami]

The Duggar guys do not wear shorts.  When the family visited Scotland, Jim Bob was bullied into wearing a kilt (by some Scottish guys) and he did put it on but it was clear he did not want to.   

 

I'll have to do some thinking on the cupcake question. 

 

 

Well, thanks for nothing, umsami. :D

 

I just read your post and got a mental picture of Jim Bob Duggar in a kilt.

 

:ack2: :ack2: :ack2:

 

 

See, I wasn't even thinking of Jim Bob, but of course, now I had the momentary thought....and will go pour bleach in my ears in hopes that it reaches my brain.

 

I was thinking perhaps of Ben or Derrick or I have no idea....are there some cute fundy guys out there?  On FreeJinger, they talk a lot about Erin Bates' husband being very "defrauding", but I have no idea what he looks like.