Jim Bob and Michelle giving tv interview

[goldberry]

So, it seems like the Duggars were staying that Josh and the girls had counseling *other* than the training center Josh went to.  How do we know that's not true?

[Katy]

These girls are much more intelligent and well spoken than their parents.

[DawnM]

So, it seems like the Duggars were staying that Josh and the girls had counseling *other* than the training center Josh went to.  How do we know that's not true?

 

I don't think it is true.

[Annie G]

So, it seems like the Duggars were staying that Josh and the girls had counseling *other* than the training center Josh went to.  How do we know that's not true?

 

The part they're leaving out is that it was ordered after family services got involved.  I'm not discounting the counseling, I'm saying that JB and Michelle should be straightforward with that info. They're making it seem as if THEY initiated it but they did not until after the 06 police interviews when family services got involved. 

 

Both the parents and Jill said Josh had to pay for his own counseling, which I find so sad. 

[goldberry]

The what-should-they-have done article also linked this, which I found interesting.  Those with pedophile tendencies who really don't wish to harm anyone are often placed in a position of having no one to go to for support.  It's creepy to think about, but in the interest of children to get people the treatment they need.  (Savage Love is the name of the blogger, Dan Savage, not anything weird.)

 

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=12927907

 

[Annie G]

Jill added, "I hope I can set up the same safeguards in my family that they did."

.....this is with regard to her parents putting locks on their doors to keep them free from their brother molesting them.

What the hell kind of messed up person hopes she can emulate these morons? How sad for her tto think that as a mom, she will give birth to a baby boy who will someday become aroused by the sight of her daughters?

These people need to be hospitalized.

 

 

That was the most sad thing I've heard through this whole thing. She has a son and is already planning to put safeguards in place to prevent him from molesting any sisters he might have.  So no hide and seek with sisters/brothers, no brothers babysitting or letting sisters sit on laps, and lock the bedroom doors when the kids go to bed. It's just sad. 

 

But this is the same family that trusted the internet password to Jana but not to the males of the family, essentially putting the pressure on her to keep the boys (and her father!)  from accessing inappropriate websites.   

[Katy]

So, it seems like the Duggars were staying that Josh and the girls had counseling *other* than the training center Josh went to.  How do we know that's not true?

 

Honestly, we don't know that. But it's safe to say they had no counseling until AFTER the police report because that's when they were referred for services.  It's also VERY possible that they went to an interview with a therapist and called that counseling.

[goldberry]

I don't think it is true.

 

It may very well not be true, but I was wondering how we know? ;)  It does make a difference if it was forced, but I would still feel better knowing it occurred.

[Katy]

I was just about to post the Dan Savage link!

[goldberry]

But if social services was investigating, wouldn't they have a required treatment plan?

[Katy]

But if social services was investigating, wouldn't they have a required treatment plan?

 

At three years later, past the statute of limitations, when none of the children felt like they were in any danger any longer, probably not.

[LucyStoner]

The what-should-they-have done article also linked this, which I found interesting. Those with pedophile tendencies who really don't wish to harm anyone are often placed in a position of having no one to go to for support. It's creepy to think about, but in the interest of children to get people the treatment they need. (Savage Love is the name of the blogger, Dan Savage, not anything weird.)

 

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=12927907

Dan Savage has been a syndicated sex columnist for 20 odd years now. I was reading his column in 1994 or 5. He's an activist, speaker, best selling author and was at one point the editor of a quirky but somewhat influential weekly paper in Seattle. At some point though the paper became a better table leg level than a paper. Just adding in that he's not a random blogger. He and his husband started #itgetsbetter.

[Joker]

Jill added, "I hope I can set up the same safeguards in my family that they did."

.....this is with regard to her parents putting locks on their doors to keep them free from their brother molesting them.

What the hell kind of messed up person hopes she can emulate these morons? How sad for her tto think that as a mom, she will give birth to a baby boy who will someday become aroused by the sight of her daughters?

These people need to be hospitalized.

 

I cannot imagine what it must be like to be newly married, have a child, and to be thinking of safeguards so no one is molested. :huh:

 

I was molested as a child and still never thought my dh or dds capable of such. It truly hurts to think these Duggar girls are out in the world with this in their minds. It makes me very angry with their parents that this is the message that was sent. I'm also angry they still have so many supporters and people that feel this is okay. It's not.

 

[Catwoman]

It may very well not be true, but I was wondering how we know? ;) It does make a difference if it was forced, but I would still feel better knowing it occurred.

:iagree:

 

I was thinking the same thing. And even if the girls were forced to go, they might still have gotten some benefit out of the counseling. One positive thing is that those girls are accustomed to dealing with all kinds of people as a result of all the travel they did for the TV show, so they may have been able to be more comfortable confiding in a non-religious counselor than would other more-sheltered girls with a similar religious background.

[Χά�ων]

They must live in a very scary world

[SproutMamaK]

For the record, I haven't watched either interview. However, from the transcripts I'm reading...

 

The parent's interview made me angry. But the daughters' just hurts my heart. I cannot imagine what the world must feel like to them, when being molested is no big thing, when they make plans for how to protect possible future children from their infant sons, and when they truly believe this happens to nearly everyone... and that one of their own children will probably either do this or be tempted to do this, and they'll need to deal with that. It's horrifying.

[momacacia]

I have to wonder if part of it is the large family dynamic. Reality is, they are in several different families and when they all get together for holidays/reunions there are a lot of "uncles and cousins" that they won't really know. They'll all bunk up in the same house at times, kids will want to do sleep overs in others' tents, etc. It's a hassle and I'm sure a concern. If it's not it should be.

 

I married into a family half the size of the Duggars. They still have the last two boys (18+) living at home. They are good guys, but still, how do you ever know? We stay in their home on holidays, etc. It's scary to me. But maybe I'm overly paranoid. It's exhausting. Do you sleep in the same room with all your kids when your visiting? What to do?!

 

At this point I'm sure the poor Duggar 2nd generation moms are traumatized on behalf of their kids, and rightly so. So many people that you don't really know with easy access to your kids. As far as everyone knew JD was a good kid, too...until he wasn't.

[MyThreeSons]

:iagree:

 

I was thinking the same thing. And even if the girls were forced to go, they might still have gotten some benefit out of the counseling. One positive thing is that those girls are accustomed to dealing with all kinds of people as a result of all the travel they did for the TV show, so they may have been able to be more comfortable confiding in a non-religious counselor than would other more-sheltered girls with a similar religious background.

 

But the molestation incidents, police report and "forced" counseling all happened before the TV show started, right? So they were still very sheltered at that time.

[LucyStoner]

And one of them said this type of molestation happens in two-thirds of families? Apparently Michelle sucks at teaching fractions, too.

Oh my stars. Did Megyn Kelly correct or clarify that? That is just completely untrue.

[Katy]

Oh my stars. Did Megyn Kelly correct or clarify that? That is just completely untrue.

 

If she did it wasn't aired.

[umsami]

I cannot imagine what it must be like to be newly married, have a child, and to be thinking of safeguards so no one is molested. :huh:

 

I was molested as a child and still never thought my dh or dds capable of such. It truly hurts to think these Duggar girls are out in the world with this in their minds. It makes me very angry with their parents that this is the message that was sent. I'm also angry they still have so many supporters and people that feel this is okay. It's not.

 

 

I agree.  I found that so disturbing/telling.  Yikes.  Plus they believe that this happens in 2/3rds of family.....maybe in ATI, but not in general. :(

 

Dan Savage has been a syndicated sex columnist for 20 odd years now. I was reading his column in 1994 or 5. He's an activist, speaker, best selling author and was at one point the editor of a quirky but somewhat influential weekly paper in Seattle. At some point though the paper became a better table leg level than a paper. Just adding in that he's not a random blogger. He and his husband started #itgetsbetter.

 

Don't forget he redefined Santorum into a frothy mix....

[Katy]

Remember when we all speculated what type of interview MK would conduct?

Can we all say LEG HUMPER now?

 

I don't think treating the girls with compassion means anything.  She was going for ratings.  The parts of the parents' interview that weren't aired until last night would have cast them in a better light. She chose salacious and infuriating moments to air, not the ones that gave you compassion for them.

[Audrey]

I cannot imagine what it must be like to be newly married, have a child, and to be thinking of safeguards so no one is molested. :huh:

 

I was molested as a child and still never thought my dh or dds capable of such. It truly hurts to think these Duggar girls are out in the world with this in their minds. It makes me very angry with their parents that this is the message that was sent. I'm also angry they still have so many supporters and people that feel this is okay. It's not.

 

 

She's already assumed that her boy is going to try to molest his sisters.  Her baby son is already a moral degenerate in her eyes.  Her. Baby. Son. 

[umsami]

I highly recommend checking out Mrs. Betty Bowers' (America's Best Christian) twitter account. :)

 

(@BettyBowers)

[elegantlion]

She's already assumed that her boy is going to try to molest his sisters. Her baby son is already a moral degenerate in her eyes. Her. Baby. Son.

That's beyond f'ed up. I.cannot.imagine.

 

Do they really think this is normal?!

[Guest]

I was hoping she was just trying to express solidarity with her family and did it in a really head smack sort of way.

[StephanieZ]

I haven't watched the interviews, but I wonder if the girls' and parents' twisted understandings of "normal" and "common" and the bizarre "this happens in 2/3 of all families" is tied up in the twisted definitions of acceptable vs sinful/evil sexuality?

 

I'm guessing that their definitions of sick/bad/evil sexual acts include such a wide range of truly normal (totally healthy to questionably healthy but still very normal) behaviors that are then mixed in with the truly sick actions (like Josh's), that then they proceed to believe that, sure, this is just what boys/men do, because, you know, they naturally do all these sick things (such as, you know, masturbate or seek to look at porn or lust after females) . . . and "inappropriate touching" of your sisters is on the same level as all that bad, bad, bad stuff that I'm guessing 99.9% of  males do by early adolescence. Poor people are so f*cked up about s*x that things hat are truly terrible happen (I'm guessing more commonly in this sort of family based on some other reading on ATI families), and the girls come away with the kind of warped thinking you heard from the victims (and parents), while the boy is, really, even more damaged perhaps, having to live with his actions -- presumably by either believing the "boys are just sick and evil" teaching underlying the ATI teachings on s*x OR someday realizing the horrible things he has done OR both . . . There's no way out for him.

 

IMHO, the only redemption for this family will be found when some/all of the kids get out, realize the ugliness of what they've lived so far, and creates a healthier new life away from this craziness. In my imagination, Josh could work towards his own redemption only getting OUT of the cult, accepting the responsibility for his acts, and working to protect others from the dangers inherent in the cult he grew up in. 

 

 

I won't even try to speak to what the girls could/should do, as, to me, since they were the blameless victims here, it isn't right for me to judge how they handle their pain or how they go on with their lives. I just hope all those kids get out of the cult one day and make healthy lives for themselves and their broods. 

 

[blondeviolin]

And one of them said this type of molestation happens in two-thirds of families? Apparently Michelle sucks at teaching fractions, too.

Well in the police report, nearly everyone said their least favorite subject was math... :tongue_smilie:

[calihil]

I have read all the comments on this post and all I could think of was, wow, all the wonderful perfect parents have all congregated on one message board. You know, it's really *easy* to condemn another family in how they handled a family situation when you haven't walked through it yourself. There is no handbook to this parenting thing and I'm glad that so many of you have figured it out and think you have the right to school everyone else, from how to handle a deeply disheartening and awful situation such as the Duggars have gone through, to what a "proper" response should be if your child was momentarily lost in the airport. When they answered how they put up safeguards, all of you criticized it. They just cant do anything right. How the Duggars handled the situation may not have been how I, personally, would have handled it, but that doesn't give me the right to condemn and flog them. It sounds like they truly did the best they thought to do TWELVE YEARS AGO.

 

You have to remember, Josh was their oldest. They were going through the teen years for the first time just like any of us as parents will do or have done. He didn't have to tell his parents what he had done. And you know what, MANY MANY boys do not tell their parents when they improperly touch. He could have kept it his dirty little secret (or lied if they did find out)and if the girls really DIDNT know what happened until the parents revealed it to them, then nobody would EVER know. Is that what you would prefer to have happened? They went to the police, they decided not to press charges. They got counseling. It's none of your business as to whether that counseling is "good enough" in your eyes. Isn't the point of counseling to CHANGE and to repent and to realize your wrongdoing? According to the people that know Josh the best, his parents and his sisters (who were the victims), he is a changed man and there is nothing to indicate I should doubt that. All of this judgment and nastiness towards them is just sickening. Yes, what Josh did was wrong, I did several wrong things as a child that would probably have landed me in Juvenile Detention but you know what, I didn't tell anyone because I was so ashamed. I would hate to think that something that I did that happened when I was young and stupid could effect me my whole life. How many parents are going to be LESS likely to go to authorities now because of how this has been handled in the media? God forbid your child ever run for office, become famous, etc because it could ruin them for life when people who dont know, dont really care, get involved and decide to crucify them. 

 

And I say all this as someone who was improperly touched, while awake, both by a family member and someone at my school, under the clothes. Not everyone is traumatized and yes, some of us do forgive the ones that sin against us. I know, that's very hard for some of you to understand, especially those who dont know and understand the love and forgiveness of Christ. As someone that holds to the doctrine of Total Depravity, yes, this could happen to anyones family and safeguards should be in place. This happens to all kinds of families, all across the board. And that's the ones we know about. 

 

So if and when this happens in your family, I expect you all to blab about it to everyone else so we can all judge how YOU handle the situation and gather our rocks to throw.

[LucyStoner]

Truthfully, I don't doubt this is at least somewhat more common in families who fell in head first with Gothard. Note, I'm not saying that is causation. But there's a lot of abuse that has come to light in these communities. I'm think it is just as probable that people with this issue are somewhat more likely to embrace these beliefs than these beliefs contributing to a culture of abuse. 2/3 is still an awfully high figure.

[LucyStoner]

I have read all the comments on this post and all I could think of was, wow, all the wonderful perfect parents have all congregated on one message board. You know, it's really *easy* to condemn another family in how they handled a family situation when you haven't walked through it yourself. There is no handbook to this parenting thing and I'm glad that so many of you have figured it out and think you have the right to school everyone else, from how to handle a deeply disheartening and awful situation such as the Duggars have gone through, to what a "proper" response should be if your child was momentarily lost in the airport. When they answered how they put up safeguards, all of you criticized it. They just cant do anything right. How the Duggars handled the situation may not have been how I, personally, would have handled it, but that doesn't give me the right to condemn and flog them. It sounds like they truly did the best they thought to do TWELVE YEARS AGO.

 

You have to remember, Josh was their oldest. They were going through the teen years for the first time just like any of us as parents will do or have done. He didn't have to tell his parents what he had done. And you know what, MANY MANY boys do not tell their parents when they improperly touch. He could have kept it his dirty little secret (or lied if they did find out)and if the girls really DIDNT know what happened until the parents revealed it to them, then nobody would EVER know. Is that what you would prefer to have happened? They went to the police, they decided not to press charges. They got counseling. It's none of your business as to whether that counseling is "good enough" in your eyes. Isn't the point of counseling to CHANGE and to repent and to realize your wrongdoing? According to the people that know Josh the best, his parents and his sisters (who were the victims), he is a changed man and there is nothing to indicate I should doubt that. All of this judgment and nastiness towards them is just sickening. Yes, what Josh did was wrong, I did several wrong things as a child that would probably have landed me in Juvenile Detention but you know what, I didn't tell anyone because I was so ashamed. I would hate to think that something that I did that happened when I was young and stupid could effect me my whole life. How many parents are going to be LESS likely to go to authorities now because of how this has been handled in the media? God forbid your child ever run for office, become famous, etc because it could ruin them for life when people who dont know, dont really care, get involved and decide to crucify them.

 

And I say all this as someone who was improperly touched, while awake, both by a family member and someone at my school, under the clothes. Not everyone is traumatized and yes, some of us do forgive the ones that sin against us. I know, that's very hard for some of you to understand, especially those who dont know and understand the love and forgiveness of Christ. As someone that holds to the doctrine of Total Depravity, yes, this could happen to anyones family and safeguards should be in place. This happens to all kinds of families, all across the board. And that's the ones we know about.

 

So if and when this happens in your family, I expect you all to blab about it to everyone else so we can all judge how YOU handle the situation and gather our rocks to throw.

This argument might hold more water if the Duggars practiced what they are now preaching on not judging.

 

Personally, I think the total depravity doctrine is an excellent example of depravity. Not everyone holds to the notion that they are one or three prayers away from becoming an ax murderer. I'm sure the heck not. I have morals.

[albeto.]

She's already assumed that her boy is going to try to molest his sisters.  Her baby son is already a moral degenerate in her eyes.  Her. Baby. Son. 

 

You reminded me of this video. It seems to have been written with the Duggars in mind. The only thing missing is the warning about molesting his sisters and having to watch out for his own son's future molestation of his own daughters. And so it goes on to the next generation, for all generations.

 

 

https://youtu.be/cJrqLV4yeiw

[Laura Cook]

I have read all the comments on this post and all I could think of was, wow, all the wonderful perfect parents have all congregated on one message board. You know, it's really *easy* to condemn another family in how they handled a family situation when you haven't walked through it yourself. There is no handbook to this parenting thing and I'm glad that so many of you have figured it out and think you have the right to school everyone else, from how to handle a deeply disheartening and awful situation such as the Duggars have gone through, to what a "proper" response should be if your child was momentarily lost in the airport. When they answered how they put up safeguards, all of you criticized it. They just cant do anything right. How the Duggars handled the situation may not have been how I, personally, would have handled it, but that doesn't give me the right to condemn and flog them. It sounds like they truly did the best they thought to do TWELVE YEARS AGO.

 

You have to remember, Josh was their oldest. They were going through the teen years for the first time just like any of us as parents will do or have done. He didn't have to tell his parents what he had done. And you know what, MANY MANY boys do not tell their parents when they improperly touch. He could have kept it his dirty little secret (or lied if they did find out)and if the girls really DIDNT know what happened until the parents revealed it to them, then nobody would EVER know. Is that what you would prefer to have happened? They went to the police, they decided not to press charges. They got counseling. It's none of your business as to whether that counseling is "good enough" in your eyes. Isn't the point of counseling to CHANGE and to repent and to realize your wrongdoing? According to the people that know Josh the best, his parents and his sisters (who were the victims), he is a changed man and there is nothing to indicate I should doubt that. All of this judgment and nastiness towards them is just sickening. Yes, what Josh did was wrong, I did several wrong things as a child that would probably have landed me in Juvenile Detention but you know what, I didn't tell anyone because I was so ashamed. I would hate to think that something that I did that happened when I was young and stupid could effect me my whole life. How many parents are going to be LESS likely to go to authorities now because of how this has been handled in the media? God forbid your child ever run for office, become famous, etc because it could ruin them for life when people who dont know, dont really care, get involved and decide to crucify them.

 

And I say all this as someone who was improperly touched, while awake, both by a family member and someone at my school, under the clothes. Not everyone is traumatized and yes, some of us do forgive the ones that sin against us. I know, that's very hard for some of you to understand, especially those who dont know and understand the love and forgiveness of Christ. As someone that holds to the doctrine of Total Depravity, yes, this could happen to anyones family and safeguards should be in place. This happens to all kinds of families, all across the board. And that's the ones we know about.

 

So if and when this happens in your family, I expect you all to blab about it to everyone else so we can all judge how YOU handle the situation and gather our rocks to throw.

They brought this on themselves by putting their family on TV. By becoming "celebrities" they opened themselves up to criticism and judgement from the public. They had to know that people who didn't like them were going to dig and dig to find some dirt on their family. If this didn't occur to them then they were incredibly naive! If they weren't on TV then I doubt the public would have ever learned about it, or given a crap about it. Jim Bob and Michelle can lay the blame for the beating they are getting in the media and places like this solely on themselves, they choose to be on TV and expose their family to all the garbage that inevitably comes with celebrity status.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I have read all the comments on this post and all I could think of was, wow, all the wonderful perfect parents have all congregated on one message board. You know, it's really *easy* to condemn another family in how they handled a family situation when you haven't walked through it yourself. There is no handbook to this parenting thing and I'm glad that so many of you have figured it out and think you have the right to school everyone else, from how to handle a deeply disheartening and awful situation such as the Duggars have gone through, to what a "proper" response should be if your child was momentarily lost in the airport. When they answered how they put up safeguards, all of you criticized it. They just cant do anything right. How the Duggars handled the situation may not have been how I, personally, would have handled it, but that doesn't give me the right to condemn and flog them. It sounds like they truly did the best they thought to do TWELVE YEARS AGO.

 

You have to remember, Josh was their oldest. They were going through the teen years for the first time just like any of us as parents will do or have done. He didn't have to tell his parents what he had done. And you know what, MANY MANY boys do not tell their parents when they improperly touch. He could have kept it his dirty little secret (or lied if they did find out)and if the girls really DIDNT know what happened until the parents revealed it to them, then nobody would EVER know. Is that what you would prefer to have happened? They went to the police, they decided not to press charges. They got counseling. It's none of your business as to whether that counseling is "good enough" in your eyes. Isn't the point of counseling to CHANGE and to repent and to realize your wrongdoing? According to the people that know Josh the best, his parents and his sisters (who were the victims), he is a changed man and there is nothing to indicate I should doubt that. All of this judgment and nastiness towards them is just sickening. Yes, what Josh did was wrong, I did several wrong things as a child that would probably have landed me in Juvenile Detention but you know what, I didn't tell anyone because I was so ashamed. I would hate to think that something that I did that happened when I was young and stupid could effect me my whole life. How many parents are going to be LESS likely to go to authorities now because of how this has been handled in the media? God forbid your child ever run for office, become famous, etc because it could ruin them for life when people who dont know, dont really care, get involved and decide to crucify them.

 

And I say all this as someone who was improperly touched, while awake, both by a family member and someone at my school, under the clothes. Not everyone is traumatized and yes, some of us do forgive the ones that sin against us. I know, that's very hard for some of you to understand, especially those who dont know and understand the love and forgiveness of Christ. As someone that holds to the doctrine of Total Depravity, yes, this could happen to anyones family and safeguards should be in place. This happens to all kinds of families, all across the board. And that's the ones we know about.

 

So if and when this happens in your family, I expect you all to blab about it to everyone else so we can all judge how YOU handle the situation and gather our rocks to throw.

You have so many of the facts of this case wrong that your post ends up being a straw man argument.

[albeto.]

So if and when this happens in your family, I expect you all to blab about it to everyone else so we can all judge how YOU handle the situation and gather our rocks to throw.

 

My family doesn't promote itself a some kind of expert on family values, only to do those very things that increase the risks of inappropriate behavior we pretend to know how to avoid, lie about it to the public, and make money by pointing the finger at others, all the while completely ignoring all the evidence that actually exists that contradicts all our advice. We're not throwing rocks. Rocks kill people. So too does raising fear about a person for belonging to a hated group, or giving the perception of belonging to a hated group. We're calling out hypocrisy and demanding evidence for the claims they make. It's simple. If one says A+B=C, then prove it, or shut up. Lives are on the line. 

[SKL]

 If they weren't on TV then I doubt the public would have ever ... given a crap about it.

 

Now why do you suppose that is?  Is it a lesser crime if you are an unknown?  Or is there some moral justification for heaping more coals upon the heads of people on TV?

[SKL]

Now why do you suppose that is?  Is it a lesser crime if you are an unknown?  Or is there some moral justification for heaping more coals upon the heads of people on TV?

Which brings up a point - child sex abuse in Hollywood.  Apparently it is rampant and crowds of people know and turn a blind eye, because if they said anything, their show / movie would be cancelled.  And the known perps continue to earn their living working with (and reoffend with) kids in Hollywood.  Sound familiar?  Where is the outrage over that?

 

Hollywood tends to rally around its own.  They want prosecutors to just drop it because drugging a 13yo and having sex with her isn't "rape rape."  Let it go, it was a long time ago.  What a bunch of uptight people we are to expect the guy to actually face the consequences of his actions.  Even the victim says let it go - and nobody is questioning whether she's been coerced in to saying that.  And his movies are promoted like anything.  Apparently nobody is the least bit uncomfortable promoting a child rapist in Hollywood.  But I guess that is because Hollywood rarely makes people angry by talking religion at them.

 

Child molestation is the same crime regardless of whether the perp is a holy roller or a Bible burner.

[Elfknitter.#]

Which brings up a point - child sex abuse in Hollywood. Apparently it is rampant and crowds of people know and turn a blind eye, because if they said anything, their show / movie would be cancelled. And the known perps continue to earn their living working with (and reoffend with) kids in Hollywood. Sound familiar? Where is the outrage over that?

 

Hollywood tends to rally around its own. They want prosecutors to just drop it because drugging a 13yo and having sex with her isn't "rape rape." Let it go, it was a long time ago. What a bunch of uptight people we are to expect the guy to actually face the consequences of his actions. Even the victim says let it go - and nobody is questioning whether she's been coerced in to saying that. And his movies are promoted like anything. Apparently nobody is the least bit uncomfortable promoting a child rapist in Hollywood. But I guess that is because Hollywood rarely makes people angry by talking religion at them.

 

Child molestation is the same crime regardless of whether the perp is a holy roller or a Bible burner.

I don't understand all the Hollywood child molestation commentary of your post, but the bolded I can agree with.

 

Is there some story in particular you are referencing in regards to childhood actors and molestation?

[Guest]

There's been big busts over the years with dozens of victims. I wish I could remember where I saw the story. Maybe Hollywood Reporter? But certain agents, producers, etc, were known to prey on kids, especially those who were drunk or high, and everyone just looked the other way :(

[SKL]

Lena again, most likely. 

 

No, I'm talking about rampant child sex abuse including rape and everything else.  Of boys and girls.  Google if you want to know more - it's not hard to find at all.

 

And then there is my favorite guy, Roman Polanski.

 

[LucyStoner]

Has anyone defended Roman Polanski and the like on this or any recent WTM thread? I am rather tired of being taken to task for views I don't think anyone vocally critical of the Duggars here actually hold.

 

I've never seen a Polanski movie and that's not changing anytime soon. The star of the Pianist who praised him at the Oscars? When I see him, I remember that. I don't think I've bothered to see any of his movies and I can't even tell you his name. I don't watch The View or think positively of Whoopi after her "rape rape" comment. I don't think I am alone. I am not holding "holy rollers" to a higher standard that "Hollywood celebrities". And point of fact, people leveling this accusation that the Duggars are being vilified while we all embrace celebrities can be found on this board defending Bill Cosby. I don't think this argument is up to snuff.

 

ETA- a friend and I are going to go and see this movie, on the topic of child sexual abuse in the movie industry. It is called the Courage to Act but if you google, add other search terms because it shares a title with the much publicized Ben Bernanke book due out later this year. http://www.seattletimes.com/entertainment/movies/an-open-secret-focuses-on-child-sexual-abuse-in-hollywood/

[Katy]

Erin's Law Advocate reveals one thing the Duggars have done right:  https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/abuse-survivor-reveals-duggar-text-messages-the-120789500852.html

[Pawz4me]

I have read all the comments on this post and all I could think of was, wow, all the wonderful perfect parents have all congregated on one message board. You know, it's really *easy* to condemn another family in how they handled a family situation when you haven't walked through it yourself. There is no handbook to this parenting thing and I'm glad that so many of you have figured it out and think you have the right to school everyone else, from how to handle a deeply disheartening and awful situation such as the Duggars have gone through, to what a "proper" response should be if your child was momentarily lost in the airport. When they answered how they put up safeguards, all of you criticized it. They just cant do anything right. How the Duggars handled the situation may not have been how I, personally, would have handled it, but that doesn't give me the right to condemn and flog them. It sounds like they truly did the best they thought to do TWELVE YEARS AGO.

 

You have to remember, Josh was their oldest. They were going through the teen years for the first time just like any of us as parents will do or have done. He didn't have to tell his parents what he had done. And you know what, MANY MANY boys do not tell their parents when they improperly touch. He could have kept it his dirty little secret (or lied if they did find out)and if the girls really DIDNT know what happened until the parents revealed it to them, then nobody would EVER know. Is that what you would prefer to have happened? They went to the police, they decided not to press charges. They got counseling. It's none of your business as to whether that counseling is "good enough" in your eyes. Isn't the point of counseling to CHANGE and to repent and to realize your wrongdoing? According to the people that know Josh the best, his parents and his sisters (who were the victims), he is a changed man and there is nothing to indicate I should doubt that. All of this judgment and nastiness towards them is just sickening. Yes, what Josh did was wrong, I did several wrong things as a child that would probably have landed me in Juvenile Detention but you know what, I didn't tell anyone because I was so ashamed. I would hate to think that something that I did that happened when I was young and stupid could effect me my whole life. How many parents are going to be LESS likely to go to authorities now because of how this has been handled in the media? God forbid your child ever run for office, become famous, etc because it could ruin them for life when people who dont know, dont really care, get involved and decide to crucify them. 

 

And I say all this as someone who was improperly touched, while awake, both by a family member and someone at my school, under the clothes. Not everyone is traumatized and yes, some of us do forgive the ones that sin against us. I know, that's very hard for some of you to understand, especially those who dont know and understand the love and forgiveness of Christ. As someone that holds to the doctrine of Total Depravity, yes, this could happen to anyones family and safeguards should be in place. This happens to all kinds of families, all across the board. And that's the ones we know about. 

 

So if and when this happens in your family, I expect you all to blab about it to everyone else so we can all judge how YOU handle the situation and gather our rocks to throw.

 

You need to read the police reports and the first statements given by the Duggars.  Or maybe you have and are dismissing all that as lies, and instead choosing to believe what they said in the MK interview?  The disparity in those accounts indicates at the very least that Jim Bob and Michelle are liars.  What they said in both can't all be true.

 

[DawnM]

Did anyone watch the interview with the daughters?  

[Katy]

Did anyone watch the interview with the daughters?  

 

Those of us who were discussing it up thread were, yes.

[DawnM]

Those of us who were discussing it up thread were, yes.

 

 

Oh, sorry, I need to go back and read.

 

I am watching an excerpt now......they locked the bedroom doors!  Wow.

[DawnM]

I can't imagine Josh ever getting a job again.  

[Annie G]

I can't imagine Josh ever getting a job again.  

 

He wasn't qualified to for the last job he had at FRC. He got it because of his name. So if you're talking about a job he gets because of his celebrity, no he probably won't get another FRC job again. But there are a LOT of people supporting him and when he moves back to Arkansas he'll land a job that is more in line with his abilities. Like the used car salesman that he used to be. 

[MFG]

Are they done? Will they go away now?

[sunflowerlady]

Are they done? Will they go away now?

 

I doubt it. At least not quietly.