Jump to content

Menu

Jim Bob and Michelle giving tv interview


gingersmom
 Share

Recommended Posts

Yes, that is exactly right. :)

 

I'm outwardly calm in a crisis, too, but I am all about getting organized and taking quick action, or if it was decided that I would be the one to stay in one place in case the child returned, I would still be constantly scanning the entire area and bugging airport staff to find out what was going on. Michelle seemed so strangely distant from the whole thing and didn't do anything at all. It was just odd -- to the point that I still remember the episode.

 

I remember thinking that if I had been in that airport, I would have been asking how I could help find the little guy, even though he wasn't my child. I was also thinking that Michelle must be on some strong tranquilizers or something.

I wonder if the crew indicated they'd seen which way he went and were just waiting for him to be located, and that kept her calm? Who knows.

 

I really wish I had older siblings to help be buddies when we fly. It's nerve wracking to have that many people and their stuff to look after! Just for things like busses and airports I'd kill for their system :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From how you describe it Cat, most of us would be more engaged with searching for a child that wasn't even our child. My friends' child wandered off on our joint vacation and we did nothing for that hour but search for her. It was at an amusement park and she was very young so it was distressing after the first search was futile.

 

That's when I started snapping a picture of our kids first thing in places like that because when the security guards asked for a description, none of us could even clearly remember the color of her dress. Not me, not my husband and not her parents. I'm level headed under pressure but I really had no idea how to describe her beyond "small, brown hair and freckles."

 

It was ultimately my older son who found her. He remembered the ride she liked best and sure enough, she was going on it again and again. :P

Your must have been relieved! Kudos to your older son, it's amzing what kids remember that adults don't, especially about small details.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Count me among the completely calm in a crisis, but burst into tears the second it's clear everything is okay, or if DH or my mom is around.  In the heat of a moment though, I'm a stoic problem solver.

 

I also burst into tears at anything emotionally touching.

 

 

How we handle crisis aside though, Michelle frequently has a blank stare. I think the stare is what has people reacting.  I always thought that was a sign she just isn't very intelligent.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Count me among the completely calm in a crisis, but burst into tears the second it's clear everything is okay, or if DH or my mom is around. In the heat of a moment though, I'm a stoic problem solver.

 

I also burst into tears at anything emotionally touching.

 

 

How we handle crisis aside though, Michelle frequently has a blank stare. I think the stare is what has people reacting. I always thought that was a sign she just isn't very intelligent.

I think it could be a "not really comfortable on camera" thing. I don't know anything about her intelligence level but I'd look like a lunatic on camera if the cameras were there to document my life. I'm an extrovert and very comfortable talking but I'd feel more than a little off on a reality show.

 

It could also be a "this cult has me totally detached from the depth of human emotions" thing.

 

The goo goo eye thing at Jim Bob probably doesn't help her look more "there" either. Women in extreme forms of IFB churches often seem childlike to me. Again, I don't think it means they are stupid. But it's a possible consequence of not having a lot of agency over your own damn life. And perhaps of embracing the IBLP idea that child is to mom as mom/wife is to husband as husband is to God almighty.

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It seems to me people are getting bogged down on the one illustration, when I'm interpreting the whole airport thing as an example of a bigger issue. As I understand Cat's point, it's not that a "real mother" would feel panicked and horrified the moment they realized their toddler was missing and those who don't must have refrigerators for hearts, but that this is yet one more random example in which this lady fails to show appropriate social interaction. 

 

Sorry if I contributed to the bogging down here! Sure, that is only one illustration, but it's another reason to guess that Michelle isn't a normal / healthy individual.

 

 

Count me among the completely calm in a crisis, but burst into tears the second it's clear everything is okay, or if DH or my mom is around.  In the heat of a moment though, I'm a stoic problem solver.

 

I also burst into tears at anything emotionally touching.

 

 

How we handle crisis aside though, Michelle frequently has a blank stare. I think the stare is what has people reacting.  I always thought that was a sign she just isn't very intelligent.

 

It would take a lot to convince me that she is 'normal' in any sense of the word. It's not just the blank stare, it's also the fact that she apparently never raises her voice (this is allegedly true off-camera as well). Sorry, but NOBODY, no matter how calm and collected a personality, can raise 19 kids without ever once losing their cool, unless there is something causing that flattened affect, whether that's a substance she takes or perhaps just the result of years of abuse from JB. And the puke-inducing husband-worship! It's not just that she is ultra conservative and believes that the husband should be head of the home. There are plenty of women who have that belief and are still intelligent, outspoken and assertive when they want to be. They believe their God put their husband in charge; they don't believe that their husband IS their God.

 

Then again, having said all that, I know nothing of the family personally. It's always possible that Michelle's persona, along with the whole darn thing, has been manufactured by them in consultation with the 'reality' television folks. I find it ironic and faintly amusing that so many people who express shock at how humans were exhibited in zoos and freak shows in the past are nevertheless so keen to engage with the kind of sordid circus enacted by people like the Duggars. (That was a comment, not a criticism. I plead guilty to bouts of inexplicable fascination about them.)

  • Like 19
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I tend to be calm in a crisis (creating a plan, enlisting help), but in a missing child scenario my panic escalates. I still remember when I took my older five to a park with my fifth was a newborn. My 4th is a little over a year and a half older. My friends and I were sitting right by the side of the playground while our kids played. Periodically, I'd count my four playing children. Then I came up short. I stood and walked around to see if she was behind the structure. She wasn't. I told my friends she was missing and then ran to the pond (holding my newborn) while they searched around the playground (trees and a garden). She wasn't there. I ran to the busy road. She wasn't there. I remembered seeing an out-of-place-looking man near the playground earlier and started to panic. I got my phone out and was ready to call the police when I spotted her across the field (about a hundred yards away). She was fine and completely oblivious to my concerns.

 

We didn't go to the park for about a year after that incident.

 

Michelle's lack of emotional response is not isolated to this one lost child incident. It's very strange.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry if I contributed to the bogging down here! Sure, that is only one illustration, but it's another reason to guess that Michelle isn't a normal / healthy individual.

 

 

 

It would take a lot to convince me that she is 'normal' in any sense of the word. It's not just the blank stare, it's also the fact that she apparently never raises her voice (this is allegedly true off-camera as well). Sorry, but NOBODY, no matter how calm and collected a personality, can raise 19 kids without ever once losing their cool, unless there is something causing that flattened affect, whether that's a substance she takes or perhaps just the result of years of abuse from JB. And the puke-inducing husband-worship! It's not just that she is ultra conservative and believes that the husband should be head of the home. There are plenty of women who have that belief and are still intelligent, outspoken and assertive when they want to be. They believe their God put their husband in charge; they don't believe that their husband IS their God.

 

Then again, having said all that, I know nothing of the family personally. It's always possible that Michelle's persona, along with the whole darn thing, has been manufactured by them in consultation with the 'reality' television folks. I find it ironic and faintly amusing that so many people who express shock at how humans were exhibited in zoos and freak shows in the past are nevertheless so keen to engage with the kind of sordid circus enacted by people like the Duggars. (That was a comment, not a criticism. I plead guilty to bouts of inexplicable fascination about them.)

 

Oh, let me introduce you to the wonder that is FreeJinger.  It's another forum and on it a woman named Alice has been swinging accusations against Josh for years.  Accusations which have all been true.  She also said that Michelle screamed at her children constantly, especially the older girls.  I think the soft voice thing is definitely since the tv specials started being recorded.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, let me introduce you to the wonder that is FreeJinger. It's another forum and on it a woman named Alice has been swinging accusations against Josh for years. Accusations which have all been true. She also said that Michelle screamed at her children constantly, especially the older girls. I think the soft voice thing is definitely since the tv specials started being recorded.

Maybe if she's a reforming screamer with anger management issues, she is medicated. It's also possible that that is part of her seeming detached. She may stay distant to stay calm and to, in some ways, protect her kids. A lot of parents from dysfunctional backgrounds do that. I've wondered if the IBLP thing was a reaction to a painful childhood for one or both of them. People are far more likely to get on board with that stuff when they are in desperate search of something.

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I remember her saying she is essentially a reformed screamer, because she used to raise her voice in anger and worked on doing the exact opposite.

 

To be fair, I'm working on the exact same thing. I can be so shrill and mean sounding with my kids when im stressed, tired, or upset. I'm a yeller and a hollerer, and part of me working past that with my friends and mentors has been focusing on being extra patient and soft spoken when I'm feeling my anger escalate, and leaving the situation until I have some distance and control and can handle it without being an obnoxious lunatic.

 

My kids don't deserve my anger, intimidation, or lack of control. They deserve more than a mommy acting like a bully or throwing a tantrum. Remaining self controlled, calm, and patient even when being upset is really important to me in terms of character growth and doing my very best to love and nurture my children.

 

I thought I remember Michelle saying her bit in one of the earlier shows, and I thought it was a great idea. I'm a big fail at it, but I'd much rather speak softly and patiently than yell and freak my kids out because I've hit the wall. I never associated being softer spoken in anger with psychosis, but I'm a wee bit crazy myself so maybe I just didn't notice :p

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I remember her saying she is essentially a reformed screamer, because she used to raise her voice in anger and worked on doing the exact opposite.

 

To be fair, I'm working on the exact same thing. I can be so shrill and mean sounding with my kids when im stressed, tired, or upset. I'm a yelled and a hollerer, and part of me working past that with my friends and mentors has been focusing on being extra patient and soft spoken when I'm feeling my anger escalate, and leaving the situation until I have some distance and control and can handle it without being an obnoxious lunatic.

 

I thought I remember Michelle saying her bit in one of the earlier shows, and I thought it was a great idea. I'm a big fail at it, but I'd much rather speak softly and patiently than yell and freak my kids out because I've hit the wall. I never associated being softer spoken in anger with psychosis, but I'm a wee bit crazy myself so maybe I just didn't notice :p

 

LOL.  I don't think being soft spoken in anger is equivalent to psychosis either.  At least I hope not.  :closedeyes:

 

I remember her saying that a few times too.

 

I used to yell a lot as a little kid, but somehow I transitioned to silence- the more angry I am, the quieter I get.  If I'm really angry I have to be alone and think through things before I'll say much of anything.  I always feel the need to think through what's really bothering me.  I don't usually think anger is a productive emotion.  I think of it as a secondary emotion- usually what really needs to be addressed is either fear or injustice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm no Michelle fan girl, but if she knew the storyline ahead of time (which I'm sure she did for "reality" TV), she had no reason to panic. Her kid was being followed by a film crew. Not telling the older kids so they had "genuine" reactions wouldn't surprise me either. They recently faked a food drive for filming the show. Her baby voice and everything is a precious season of life crap is all part of her fake TV persona. She's in the zone, y'all! ;)

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've never watched the show, but I wouldn't put any stock in any of it.  It is reality television.  And "television" is the important word there.  As hard as it is for people to believe, there is nothing truly "real" about reality TV.  It's still scripted and planned out to a very high degree.  Michelle would have known the kid wasn't in any danger at all.  There would have been a large TV crew all around them.  The airport staff (including security) would have been notified well in advance that the Duggars and their entourage of a film crew were coming, and the airport's security people would have been there in significant numbers.  Make no mistake--this would have been a well planned event as far as the filming location.  I suppose it's remotely possible the kid did wander off on his own as opposed to it being a scripted event, but he would never have been in the least bit of danger and Michelle would certainly have been fully aware of that.  My guess is that she's a horrible actress and so can't manage to fake panic.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I remember her saying she is essentially a reformed screamer, because she used to raise her voice in anger and worked on doing the exact opposite.

 

To be fair, I'm working on the exact same thing. I can be so shrill and mean sounding with my kids when im stressed, tired, or upset. I'm a yelled and a hollerer, and part of me working past that with my friends and mentors has been focusing on being extra patient and soft spoken when I'm feeling my anger escalate, and leaving the situation until I have some distance and control and can handle it without being an obnoxious lunatic.

 

My kids don't deserve my anger, intimidation, or lack of control. They deserve more than a mommy acting like a bully or throwing a tantrum. Remaining self controlled, calm, and patient even when being upset is really important to me in terms of character growth and doing my very best to love and nurture my children.

 

I thought I remember Michelle saying her bit in one of the earlier shows, and I thought it was a great idea. I'm a big fail at it, but I'd much rather speak softly and patiently than yell and freak my kids out because I've hit the wall. I never associated being softer spoken in anger with psychosis, but I'm a wee bit crazy myself so maybe I just didn't notice :p

(((Taryl)))

 

My prayers are with you as you grow and work to be the mom you want to be. It takes much courage to see our shortcomings and then work to improve them.

 

That being said...story about our old neighbors. The man was divorced and used to say how happy he was that he and his live-in girlfriend never fought bc he and his ex always did. Until one night the GF was drunk and told him to shut up bc they "whisper fight all the time."

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can understand her looking all serene and like some modern day Mary, Mother of Jesus Who Never Lost Her Beautiful Temper (there's a reason Michelangelo portrayed her so young in his Pietà - to show her innocence and youthful beauty). She is a self-appointed ambassador of the king of kings, the one who is sovereign over all things, including the safety of a toddler who wanders off and gets lost. Fretting would only show she doesn't really trust her god, and what kind of ambassador betrays her king through lack of loyalty? Besides, she's got an image to uphold.

We see her disconnect as a sign she isn't really mothering her children.....you take her lack of fretting to be her way of proving trust in her God. You manage to always make it about religion.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We see her disconnect as a sign she isn't really mothering her children.....you take her lack of fretting to be her way of proving trust in her God. You manage to always make it about religion.

 

The Duggars always make it about religion. Every other word out of their mouths is about religion. 

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am also a person who wants very much to never scream again.  Not that I was ever the worst screamer in town, but the times it is helpful are extremely few, so less is more.  ;)  I still lose it and holler/scream occasionally.  I probably wouldn't do it in front of rolling cameras, though.  :P

 

I agree MD has an odd look when she's sitting there saying nothing.  I get the impression she is holding back the first words that come to mind, and trying to come up with something more appropriate for the cameras.  Too bad it is so obvious and awkward.  But after all, she did not go to actress school.  ;)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We see her disconnect as a sign she isn't really mothering her children.....you take her lack of fretting to be her way of proving trust in her God. You manage to always make it about religion.

 

The Duggars themselves promote the idea that their behavior is a function of following their religion. Naturally, this includes parenting behaviors. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am a reformed screamer, daughter of a screamer. My dh never raises his voice, even when he's furious. His mother would wake up yelling and throughout the day it would increase until it was a scream. He hates yelling. Interesting pair we make. My older children deserved much better from their mom. I read an article by a young woman who could have been my oldest dd. In the article she said she felt screaming and yelling was a form of abuse. This is what my dh had been trying to tell me, and for the first time I saw it from my children's perspective. I'm sure there were many times they were terrified. So I reformed, with help from my dh and children.

 

Now I'm no Michele. When I'm excited, angry, scared, happy I still raise my voice. I do get animated because that is me. But I don't scream and yell, even when I'm furious. So I can see Michelle changing. It's possible. However, when I've seen her she seems flat, removed, just not right. Hard to put my finger on, but she reminds me of my sil,and she never seems quite right. Dh tells me his sister was never like that growing up; she's done an about face. We wonder if she's medicated.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

From how you describe it Cat, most of us would be more engaged with searching for a child that wasn't even our child. My friends' child wandered off on our joint vacation and we did nothing for that hour but search for her. It was at an amusement park and she was very young so it was distressing after the first search was futile.

 

That's when I started snapping a picture of our kids first thing in places like that because when the security guards asked for a description, none of us could even clearly remember the color of her dress. Not me, not my husband and not her parents. I'm level headed under pressure but I really had no idea how to describe her beyond "small, adorable, light brown hair and freckles."

 

It was ultimately my older son who found her. He remembered the ride she liked best and sure enough, she was going on it again and again. :p

OT, but has your son read Siobhan Dowd's The London Eye Mystery?  If not, he might enjoy it.  The protagonist notices things that other people do not, which proves critical to the plot.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I certainly hope none of your children EVER make any mistakes... of course then YOU will probably forgive them, but NO one else should since YOU don't (if it is someone else's child... especially if you already hate the family anyway).

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I certainly hope none of your children EVER make any mistakes... of course then YOU will probably forgive them, but NO one else should since YOU don't (if it is someone else's child... especially if you already hate the family anyway).

 

Molesting 5 little girls multiple times is hardly a mistake.

  • Like 28
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I certainly hope none of your children EVER make any mistakes... of course then YOU will probably forgive them, but NO one else should since YOU don't (if it is someone else's child... especially if you already hate the family anyway).

 

Molesting a child..... or in this case, several, is far more than a "mistake". Coloring on the walls, shoplifting a candy bar, copying answers on a test, teasing someone, etc are mistakes. Watch JD did was NOT a mistake, it was a CRIME. And not a petty one at that. If you feel this is a mistake that should be let go, I hope you feel even more so about some of the other recent media things lately, such as riots.

  • Like 16
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not much of a TV watcher.  It's been years since I've gone to a movie.  We have Netflix but I've never once used it.  And I would readily pay to watch Rachel Maddow interview the Duggars.  Somehow I don't think that's ever gonna happen, though. ;)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Molesting 5 little girls multiple times is hardly a mistake.

 

:iagree: Sexual exploration and curiosity at 14/15 is normal.  Molesting 5 younger girls, most of them sisters, is most definitely not.  I have a 14 year old boy at my house.  He has a younger sister.  He makes mistakes all the time.  I've discussed this with him and he just does not understand this AT ALL.  I find it even more disturbing that the Duggar parents describe it this way. 

  • Like 11
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I certainly hope none of your children EVER make any mistakes... of course then YOU will probably forgive them, but NO one else should since YOU don't (if it is someone else's child... especially if you already hate the family anyway).

This is the second thread where you have blasted those of us who are discussing this.

 

I don't know what bur is in your saddle about sexual abuse being portrayed as the evil that it is, but continuing to call it a disappointment or mistake on par with other life events of less gravity is minimizing and rude.

 

Although, I think you already know that.

  • Like 31
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I certainly hope none of your children EVER make any mistakes... of course then YOU will probably forgive them, but NO one else should since YOU don't (if it is someone else's child... especially if you already hate the family anyway).

 

And Luanne,  I most sincerely and truthfully, with all I hold dear, hope that this never happens, but if someday, someone close to you, someone you care about, is molested or sexually assaulted, I hope that the person who does it is held responsible for their actions. I hope their victim can take some comfort in that. I hope the person you care about gets the unconditional support they need to heal and the person who hurts them gets the treatment they need to never hurt another person. 

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And yet. We can see not everything is.

 

But who is suggesting everything is? In which post is that argument made? Can you link to it? 

 

Or do you mean to refer to the idea that you're frustrated that criticism about your religion happens so often, or that there is a marked lack of respect when discussing it? I'm only assuming these might be more about what you're getting at, but I don't mean to put words into your mouth. That's a broader topic than Michelle Duggar, and while I don't mind discussing it, I don't want to assume you mean something when you don't. In any case, I find it unrealistic to separate her behavior from her religion when she herself promotes the idea that her behavior is specifically inspired by her religion. She makes these claims, we don't. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I want to see them brought down. I want this to be the tipping point to break up the damaging cult they promote, and to wake up people who have been far too passive as this plague of hatred that has been pushed as what "good Christians" do and held up as The standard by for too many. I want to exposure to the deep ties to politics and legislation that is basically a witch hunt for LGBT people. 

I might be dreaming, but I hope that this will be a turning point to make the US a more accepting secular society.

Call me a horrible person, but I will relish every second of their fall. I am spending hundreds a month for non covered specialized therapy for my son to work through his anxieties and fears because the overwhelming message of our culture is that people like him are bad and horrible. His anxiety over the idea that people will hate him for who he is more than any 11 year old should have to deal with. Where does he get this idea? Not from me. Not from those he has let know. But from our society that has been infected by this plague of bigotry wearing the mask of "good Christian values". The subtle messages are everywhere. This family having such a large following is a reason. The fact that a hate group such as FRC exists under the guise of being pro-family is another reason. The Duggars and those like them are more damaging than Westboro Baptist Church. If for no other reason than the amount of positive (well, before this) attention and adoration their received. All the media outlets that never one time bothered to call them out are just as guilty.

  • Like 22
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's when I started snapping a picture of our kids first thing in places like that because when the security guards asked for a description, none of us could even clearly remember the color of her dress. Not me, not my husband and not her parents. I'm level headed under pressure but I really had no idea how to describe her beyond "small, adorable, light brown hair and freckles."

 

The one time I had a seriously lost child, I was freaking out, and I couldn't remember much to describe the kid to the mall security guard. I was wracking my brain to remember what he was wearing, etc. My oldest son -- a whole 8yo at the time -- calmly said, "Show him the picture we took at Sears." In a bag in my hand were the proofs of the portraits we had just had made, LOL. 

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is the second thread where you have blasted those of us who are discussing this.

 

I don't know what bur is in your saddle about sexual abuse being portrayed as the evil that it is, but continuing to call it a disappointment or mistake on par with other life events of less gravity is minimizing and rude.

 

Although, I think you already know that.

I'm wondering if Luanne is speaking more in the context of a parent forgiving a child. (I'm veering out of Duggar specific land now into just general forgiveness and parenting). Your child molests your other kids. Is there anything that child can say to rectify that situation? Can someone apologize enough? How can you ever trust him/her again? Is it betraying the victims of his crimes, your other children, to forgive him? Yet this is your child who you love despite what he's done, right? Ugh. It's truly a heartbreaking situation for any parent to ponder.

 

ftr- I'm not a fan of the duggars and I am not trying to justify any of their behavior. Sadly, these are issues that other families have to deal with.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Count me among the completely calm in a crisis, but burst into tears the second it's clear everything is okay, or if DH or my mom is around. In the heat of a moment though, I'm a stoic problem solver.

 

When I was a baby, I rolled off a bed while a babysitter was staying with me and cut my forehead on a dresser or side table. When my mom met us at the ER (I'm told), the nurses assumed the babysitter was my mother because she was freaking out and crying, and Mom was calm and cool. After I had stitches and the drama had passed, THEN she had to sit down and have a good cry.

 

I'm more the type that jumps immediately to panic mode. We'd have had several ER visits when my older DD was little if my mom or DH hadn't been with me to offer a more rational assessment of the injury.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm wondering if Luanne is speaking more in the context of a parent forgiving a child. (I'm veering out of Duggar specific land now into just general forgiveness and parenting). Your child molests your other kids. Is there anything that child can say to rectify that situation? Can someone apologize enough? How can you ever trust him/her again? Is it betraying the victims of his crimes, your other children, to forgive him? Yet this is your child who you love despite what he's done, right? Ugh. It's truly a heartbreaking situation for any parent to ponder.

 

ftr- I'm not a fan of the duggars and I am not trying to justify any of their behavior. Sadly, these are issues that other families have to deal with.

A parent can love a child who commits a crime. That said, a parent should not commit crimes of their own to cover up and protect one child at the expense of the others. Loving someone does not require that you condone, minimize or conceal their behavior.

 

My brother is a DV perpetrator. I love him deeply. He is my brother. Loving him does not and did not mean NOT calling the police on him, not testifying on behalf of his victims and not doing all that is in my power to help his kids. He thinks that I don't love him, don't forgive him, don't even like him because I don't protect him or placate him or excuse him from the consequences of his actions. He is a selfish addict and his view- that to love him or forgive him I have to pretend it all never happened is toxic, unhealthy and abusive. Is it easy to take your brother to court to protect other members of the family? No, it has not been especially easy. But there was never a doubt in my mind that I was doing the right thing by letting the law intervene.

 

I have an older child who has had violent and aggressive blow ups in the past. Yes, these are tied to his autism but the little son on the other end of his ire didn't get hurt any less because there is a reason. One of these blow ups did not injure my younger son, but it could have quite seriously had I not literally been *right* there. We took a number of actions that day, including contacting social services and taking my son to see a medical professional. We also decided that once he gets into his teen years, any seriously injurious actions towards his brother will result in him needing to live away and possibly face legal consequences. Do I love my sons? Yes. But I will not allow my younger son to be his older brother's kickboxing target, autism or no autism. Thankfully the steps we took have worked and nothing more than two average brothers might do has gone down in a year.

 

It is a perversion of the concept of forgiveness to ignore safety and other concerns.

 

There is no apology that matters in my book more than an actual change of action, including facing the law where applicable.

 

I reject the idea that forgiveness means no consequences and a clean slate. I also reject the idea that love can only exist where a clean slate is granted.

 

I agree with you that it is hard. Very hard. But parenting is not easy under the best of circumstances. You do what you have to do for ALL of your children, not only a favored oldest son.

  • Like 34
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My personal experience has been that when an older sibling is parenting a younger sibling, in any non-marginal way, it is because there is dysfunction and/or abuse in the family.

 

 

I would agree. I was a surrogate parent figure for my brother. My parents weren't abusive per say but there was a lot of dysfunction and some neglect. Not only was it not fair to my brother, it was not fair to me. Our relationship is fundamentally different than it could be.

 

I'm going to have to disagree.

 

I'm a good deal older than my youngest brother.  I took over as primary caregiver for about a year and a half when he was around 8, because my mother went back to school and I was available to fill that role.  Yes, it did fundamentally changed our relationship, but not in a bad way.  It created another bond that still exists to this day.  It had nothing to do with abuse OR neglect.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm going to have to disagree.

 

I'm a good deal older than my youngest brother. I took over as primary caregiver for about a year and a half when he was around 8, because my mother went back to school and I was available to fill that role. Yes, it did fundamentally changed our relationship, but not in a bad way. It created another bond that still exists to this day. It had nothing to do with abuse OR neglect.

Helping out on a short term basis when an otherwise functional, healthy parent goes back to school or work is not the same thing I was talking about or that LuLu was talking about. I took on that role from the time I was 7-8 for a brother who was barely two years younger than me. My brother lived with me and not our parents from the time I was barely 18 until he was 20. Providing care is not the same thing as consistently having to parent yourself and your sibling.
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with you and hope my earlier post did not in away seem to minimize or justify what the duggars did. I was pondering parenting in general and how one could possibly get past something like this - after taking the proper safety precautions and legal requirements -the forgiveness part which I completely agree does NOT mean no consequences.

 

 

Dang. That post might win for the worst run on sentence ever. Sorry. Have chaos in the kitchen and can't fix it.

A parent can love a child who commits a crime. That said, a parent should not commit crimes of their own to cover up and protect one child at the expense of the others. Loving someone does not require that you condone, minimize or conceal their behavior.

 

My brother is a DV perpetrator. I love him deeply. He is my brother. Loving him does not and did not mean NOT calling the police on him, not testifying on behalf of his victims and not doing all that is in my power to help his kids. He thinks that I don't love him, don't forgive him, don't even like him because I don't protect him or placate him or excuse him from the consequences of his actions. He is a selfish addict and his view- that to love him or forgive him I have to pretend it all never happened is toxic, unhealthy and abusive. Is it easy to take your brother to court to protect other members of the family? No, it has not been especially easy. But there was never a doubt in my mind that I was doing the right thing by letting the law intervene.

 

I have an older child who has had violent and aggressive blow ups in the past. Yes, these are tied to his autism but the little son on the other end of his ire didn't get hurt any less because there is a reason. One of these blow ups did not injure my younger son, but it could have quite seriously had I not literally been *right* there. We took a number of actions that day, including contacting social services and taking my son to see a medical professional. We also decided that once he gets into his teen years, any seriously injurious actions towards his brother will result in him needing to live away and possibly face legal consequences. Do I love my sons? Yes. But I will not allow my younger son to be his older brother's kickboxing target, autism or no autism. Thankfully the steps we took have worked and nothing more than two average brothers might do has gone down in a year.

 

It is a perversion of the concept of forgiveness to ignore safety and other concerns.

 

I reject the idea that forgiveness means no consequences and a clean slate. I also reject the idea that love can only exist where a clean slate is granted.

 

I agree with you that it is hard. Very hard. But parenting is not easy under the best of circumstances. You do what you have to do for ALL of your children, not only a favored oldest son.

I agree with you and hope my earlier post did not in any way seem to minimize or justify what the duggars did. I was pondering parenting in general and how one could possibly get past something like this - after taking the proper safety precautions and legal requirements -the forgiveness part which I completely agree does NOT mean no consequences.

 

 

Dang. That post might win for the worst run on sentence ever. Sorry. Have chaos in the kitchen. Sweet. And now I somehow multi quoted instead of editing. Sigh. Ok, will stop before I blow up the boards.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Helping out on a short term basis when an otherwise functional, healthy parent goes back to school or work is not the same thing I was talking about or that LuLu was talking about. I took on that role from the time I was 7-8 for a brother who was barely two years younger than me. My brother lived with me and not our parents from the time I was barely 18 until he was 20. Providing care is not the same thing as consistently having to parent yourself and your sibling.

 

I agree.  Sorry that I misunderstood.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...