Can a lit-based curriculum turn my kids into better listeners?

[EliseMcKenna]

I've had my heart set on a lit-based curriculum for my 6 and 8-year old daughters next year. But I'm noticing more and more that neither of them are great at listening to chapter books, and forget audio books altogether. I think I'm a pretty darn great narrator (I do voices!), and I really enjoy reading aloud to them. I keep thinking my enthusiasm will be contagious, yet we keep slogging along, with the 6-year old often claiming to be bored.

 

Is it my book choices? We just started A Bear Called Paddington, and I can tell they are struggling. We don't have this issue with picture books at all.

 

Will a lit-based curriculum exacerbate their boredom or help them improve their listening/audial-learning skills?

[Pen]

Just a moment as I look deep into my crystal ball...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Farrar]

Maybe they're just not ready to appreciate longer books. I think too many people skip ahead in the picture book stage. A lot of 6 yos are ready to be listening to Charlotte's Web or the like, but a lot aren't really. Reading picture books is helping their ability to listen to books too, you know. If they're bored, they're likely not understanding it.

 

How about doing something like FIAR?

[Eagle]

I would recommend FIAR (Five in a Row) as well. Also Games With Books (by Peggy Kaye) has great activities to go along with both picture and chapter books. FWIW, we never finished Paddington as I personally found it so boring as a read aloud. What about trying something like the Ramona (Beverly Cleary) books to see if you can keep their attention. Also, books by Virginia Lee Burton are a good transition between picture and chapter books.

[EliseMcKenna]

First, I should add that the 8-year old is much better at listening. I don't think she is loving Padfington yet, but she is generally much more eager to listen in.

 

I think maybe the 6-year old just isn't ready yet. She is technically not six until July. Maybe I'm rushing her on this. I think it really might depend on the book for her for awhile.

 

I have looked at FIAR so many times. But I just can't wrap my head around it. I don't think it's a good fit for ME.

[EliseMcKenna]

Oh, I'm so glad it's not just us, Eagle! We're only on page 27, and we're all bored to death.

 

They made it through The Boxcar Children happily, and then they played Boxcar Children for weeks afterwards, which shocked me. I thought it would be way too old-fashioned for them.

[CelticHaiku]

What about longer picture books. By that I mean picture books with more words per page. Also picture books with more advanced language (think Beatrix Potter - Peter Rabbit and the rest). Both approaches can build their listen and comprehend power. As for chapter books see if you library has some of the My First Little House books. They are picture books that tell stories from the Little House Chapter books. That way you can get your kids invested in the characters before beginning the first chapter book. As a bonus the Little House Chapter books have a picture every two to three pages. We are such a visual culture that comprehending by listening alone is definitely an acquired skill.

[texasmama]

Maybe it is just that book.  Do you allow playing while listening?  Legos or other floor toys are good.

[EliseMcKenna]

Maybe it is just that book. Do you allow playing while listening? Legos or other floor toys are good.

I wouldn't mind it, but we always read in my big bed. Maybe I should have some fiddly stuff nearby and available.

[Rachel]

I wonder if it's the book selection. I love Paddington but it didn't work well as a read aloud at our house. Sometimes the timing is just off. We tried Winnie the Pooh as a read aloud and audiobook and couldn't get into it. A couple years later my son read it himself and loved it.

 

What about finding out what it was about The Boxcar Children that they liked? Maybe that could help narrow down some book choices they like better. My son really likes talking animal characters but my daughter prefers real people. I think if a book is truly dragging it is fine to move on to something more enjoyable without finishing the story.

[EliseMcKenna]

Good point, Rach. I wonder . . . I will ask my oldest her opinion in the morning. I think it was a great blend of funny/silly with danger and mystery. Plus I know they loved the idea of kids being so self-sufficient.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Paddington. Blerg. We were supposed to love him... I bought the treasury years ago. Feel better. My kids are 12, 10, and 9. Last fall, while boxing up some children's books to send home with my parents (to save us weight on our next move), I came across it. How had I never them read this gem, I thought to myself. So I read it. For about three nights. And ugh. None of us could take it anymore. How could the stories be so simple and so looooong at the same time?! So (should be) sweet but so (painfully, dear heavens when will this chapter end!?) boring? My kids let me quit, and they almost never let me quit a book. Our next read-aloud? No joke, it was The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings, which are long and descriptive and complex. And my kids were rapt! So much so that they voted to reread them all again!

 

So, I am not saying to read The Hobbit and LOTR right now, but I will say for sure stop reading them Paddington. Because based on my experience, the ability to pay attention was not the issue. :lol:

 

My youngest was ready for chapter books later than my older two, but ironically he is now the #1 listener in the house at age 9. "What happened in last night's chapter, guys?" Bam! He'll be happy tell you! And when my older kids tell first, he'll be happy to add whatever they forgot. :lol: It irritates my older kids no end! It's like a magical power.

 

So anyway, have hope and keep reading. Picture books to longer picture books to chapter books with lots of pictures to chapter books with fewer pictures but a fast-paced story line to more complex chapter books. I always said there were more good books than we could ever hope to get to, so definitely don't worry about taking the scenic route! It's all about the scenery!

[Alte Veste Academy]

I wouldn't mind it, but we always read in my big bed. Maybe I should have some fiddly stuff nearby and available.

There have been a few threads about what kids can do while you read. Mine have embroidered, worked on knitting, played LEGO, built with wooden blocks, sketched what they are hearing, played with Thinking Putty.... Yes, give them something to tinker with. Some people (me!) focus better with a distraction. Counterintuitive but true.

[PhotoGal]

I just wanted to chime in that WWE helped my kids listen to stories more easily. At first, I had to read a bit at a time and remind them to picture what I am saying as I read (like a movie playing in their heads). We didn't start WWE to improve listening skills, but it did have that effect. It was really helpful!

[EliseMcKenna]

That was awesome to read, Alte Veste Academy. Thank you so much for sharing!

[EliseMcKenna]

That's Writing With Ease, PhotoGal?

[Rosie_0801]

I've found dd's listening skills have improved in the last few weeks since it's been too cold to need the window wound down in the car, because we're back to listening to audiobooks. She tends to sit in the back, working with her rainbow loom, and there's no pressure at all because it is "extra-curricular" lit I don't ask questions about, not "proper" school. Two months ago, we were trying to do listening exercises (she has auditory processing issues) and she couldn't even hear the birds outside her window. We tried it again recently and she heard the birds, car noise and a metal clanging from down the road that I was surprised she actually noticed.

 

So, there can be advantages to kids from playing audiobooks in the car to entertain yourself.  :laugh:

 

[Hunter]

Some kids do better with no pressure, and being allowed to multitask.

 

Children do improve by doing.

 

5 is 5, NOT 6, and not 7. Many European schools and Waldorf do not start school until 7 for very good reasons.

 

Teach with your strengths. The kids will adapt and get it eventually.

[Farrar]

Yeah, I agree that Paddington is blerg, as Alte Veste said. Of course, I'm sure some kids love it.

 

Our favorite early chapter book read aloud remains The Jamie and Angus Stories. There are three books. They're the sweetest, most wonderful little books. So adorable and relateable for little listeners. There are even just a few pictures too:

http://www.amazon.com/Jamie-Stories-Boston-Globe-Horn-Awards/dp/0763618624/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1431830826&sr=8-1&keywords=jamie+and+angus

 

You said they liked Boxcar Children. It's not hopeless, clearly. They do like some stuff.

[Alte Veste Academy]

And oh my goodness, Roald Dahl! Short chapters, great pictures, and intriguing storylines!

[Pen]

At 5 my son did well with picture books, things like If You Give a Mouse a Cookie, Make Way for Ducklings, Dr. Seuss, .... many many wonderful picture books.

 

At 8 he did well with realistic chapter books like the Little House series, and also less realistic ones like the Unfortunate Events series and many others, but also still enjoyed good picture books at that stage.

 

We never read or tried to read Paddington books.

 

If something seemed like it was not going well, I switched to something else rather than try to slog along in it.

[Pen]

Just a moment as I look deep into my crystal ball...

 

 

I am afraid it showed me nothing of your future.

 

But it did suggest I give you a suggestion from my own learning which is:

 

Teach the children before you as they are at each stage, rather than aiming at an ideal curriculum that may or may not fit them.

[EliseMcKenna]

Thanks for the suggestions and advice. Farrar, our library has Jamie and Angus, so I will definitely pick that up.

 

We are actually a Waldorf-inspired family for the early years. At age 8, my daughter will be doing formal lessons for the first time. I selected all of her curriculum materials based on what she told me she wants to work on this year. I think it's going to be a great fit for her, but I was hoping at least some of it, like the read-alouds, would appeal to the almost-6-year old, too. If she decides to do nothing but play with her three-year old sister all year, I'm fine with that. But I hope we'll be doing at least a few things of interest to her.

[kateingr]

For my kids, having something to do with their hands while they listen to longer books is essential. I keep blocks in the living room for my four-year-old, and my eight-year-old does a lot of drawing while he listens. 

 

I also highly recommend audio books during lunch. They have something to do with their hands, and I'm happy to have a break from interacting for a while...

[PeterPan]

I agree with the others that the problem is Paddington.  You might look at Teddy Robinson for your 5 yo.  Much more imaginative stories.  For my dd, the thing with the BoxCar was the imaginative element.  She approached history the same way, still does, wanting to IMMERSE in the story and live it.  So anything where they can immerse themselves and apply their imaginations works.  It doesn't sound like you're describing receptive language issues (inability to understand) so much as inattention and lack of engagement.  Your other problem is that your books may either end up targeting your 5 yo OR your 8 yo well.  You might try to have one read aloud for each kid each day, since it's just the two of them.  So do the K5 level read alouds from SL for your 5 yo and do a higher level of read aloud for your 8 yo.  They'll enjoy tagging along with the others, but that way they each have something each day that really is right for them.  

 

And yes, putting the audiobooks on environmentally can help too.  My ds has a kindle hdx, and he just has it with him all day, playing audiobooks while he does other things.  No matter what he's doing, that thing is on, playing.  But I think your 8 yo might be ready for something more, some lit that would be a stretch for your 5 yo. (The Hobbit, for instance, or some of Tolkien's other short stories for youth.)  That's why I'd make sure they're getting their own levels for a bit each day.  My dd was INSANE for Boxcar, and she also loved the Little House books, Guardians of G'hoole, the Sam Campbell series, the Chronicles of Narnia, Charlotte's Web, etc. Each had that imaginative element.  Later she got into Tolkien, fan fiction, etc.  I think it's ok to embrace that highly imaginative play, kwim?  Now she makes elaborate costumes, etc.  It's just all part of this continuum of her imagination and creativity.   :)

 

[happypamama]

Okay, my kids love Paddington (he makes my 6yo giggle, since 6yo boy can imagine Paddington's scrapes), BUT I don't think it's your kids' listening abilities; I think it's entirely likely that Paddington just didn't hit them right, and that's perfectly acceptable. There are a million other books for that age. I love the suggestions of sticking with longer picture books. You might try James Herriot's Treasury for Children, which has gorgeous pictures, if they like animals. My kids all also love Narnia, since there's a lot of action.

 

And yes to something to fiddle with. My teen still draws a lot when we read aloud.

[EliseMcKenna]

For my dd, the thing with the BoxCar was the imaginative element. She approached history the same way, still does, wanting to IMMERSE in the story and live it. So anything where they can immerse themselves and apply their imaginations works.

 

My dd was INSANE for Boxcar, and she also loved the Little House books, Guardians of G'hoole, the Sam Campbell series, the Chronicles of Narnia, Charlotte's Web, etc. Each had that imaginative element. Later she got into Tolkien, fan fiction, etc. I think it's ok to embrace that highly imaginative play, kwim? Now she makes elaborate costumes, etc. It's just all part of this continuum of her imagination and creativity. :)

YES! This is almost exactly what she told me this morning when I asked for her thoughts on Boxcar. Their imaginative play afterwards was BEAUTIFUL. Please keep the recommendations coming -- I would be thrilled to feed their minds with more books that fit this mold!

 

We just visited Laura Ingalls Wilder's home on the Kansas prairie. So I think the timing is good for more of those stories. (We've only read LHITBW so far.) And, I agree, happypamama, we've had the JH Treasury for weeks from the library, and no one is ready to return it yet!

[EliseMcKenna]

OhElizabeth, is K5 Sonlight the same as Core A?

[PeterPan]

Yeah, sorry, they've changed the core names so many times I can't keep up, lol.  

 

If you want to see other things we did, you can do an advanced search on the board here by username or try a google site search.  It's my crazy favorite way to search, so here's what you do.  Go to google and type in something like "boxcar ohelizabeth site:welltrainedmind.com" and see what you get.  boxcar ohelizabeth site:welltrainedmind.com

 

Then you could search for anything.  With the advanced site search on WTM you can read through old posts by user, limiting to a section of the boards if you want.  Or do the google site search and see what so and so used for hands-on or math or writing or whatever strikes your fancy.  For instance, Writing Tales appealed to my dd for the same reasons Boxcar did.  So it's just more ways to learn.  :)

 

 

[EliseMcKenna]

Oh, goodness. There goes the rest of my weekend! :-) Thank you!!

[Sarah0000]

I don't have kids yet this age. Just a fair warning that this is coming from a complete novice...

 

I just wonder if telling stories without a book at all might help? Retelling fairy tales, famous myths, cultural stories, even old family stories throughout the day at times other than reading aloud times. Might help to normalize the experience of listening without pictures.

[EliseMcKenna]

Sarah, I have no doubt that would help. I love that idea, I just already know that I'm baaaaaaaaaaaad at it. My husband, however, tries to fill in the gap in that department. He's great at telling the girls stories from his childhood or other family stories. They look forward to that. The one time I tried to tell them a story from my childhood, I practically traumatized them. (A story about me falling off my bike, and a stranger coming to help. Yikes. No wonder they were freaked out! Ha!)

 

Anyway, as I mentioned further up, we have been a Waldorf-inspired family for years, and oral storytelling is a huge component. I managed to memorize a couple of fairy tales, but that is as far as I got.

 

I read a little more of Paddington at lunch today. It was a *smidge* better. My almost-6-year old seemed to be mostly listening -- when she finished eating, she played with some magnatiles at the table. If I keep each session short, we might just be able to get through this book. But I'm also prepared to throw in the towel if it looks like I'm torturing them.

[FO4UR]

There is no shame in dropping a book that isn't engaging the kids.

 

Level UP for read alouds.  Give them something to chew on.  And, YES, give them legos, coloring books, crochet or knitting, socks to sort, whatever...

 

 

They are perfect ages for Laura Ingalls Wilder.  Buy some Lincoln Logs and the Little House paper dolls.  Read one chapter at a time (maybe 3 times per week), and discuss the chapter at various times during the day.  (What a yummy lunch!  I wonder if Pa made pork chops like we are eating?)  

 

Pick some other books too.  I always have several read alouds going and we rotate through them.  Some books get read once a week, some get read 2-3 times per week.  Stretching them out helps the children to live with the characters, and varying them prevents boredom.

 

 

If you haven't read Beatrix Potter stories, read those now.  AA Milne too.  And Robert McClosky...

 

Even if FIAR doesn't jive with your way of teaching, check those books out from the library.  A mix of picture books and "chapter" books can help merge them into careful listening.

 

Ask them to retell the stories.  Ask them who is their favorite character.  Ask them what they would do if they were facing the same problem as the character. When they talk about the stories, they engage more deeply when they are listening.

 

And - If they are not play-acting the stories at 5-10yo, it's not an engaging story for them.  

[desertflower]

I agree with what everyone is saying. You could try longer picture books or read to them while they are playing with legos. I like FIAR.

 

I've noticed that my,4 1/2 will snooze through the little house series, but likes a Wrinkle in Time and the Oz series.

 

Good luck.

[EliseMcKenna]

4blessingmom -- great ideas! Thank you for chiming in!

[mamaraby]

Paddington really needs an English accent. Might I suggest Stephen Fry (http://www.audible.com/pd/Kids/A-Bear-Called-Paddington-Audiobook/B002V0QQ7S/)? Pick a new read aloud for you to read and let Stephen Fry read to your kids while you drive around town. Worked for us.

 

Some of it is just practice. Drop back down to picture books for awhile. Even my 10yo comes running when I'm reading picture books. I'd second FIAR, but even the SOTW activity guides or something like HO have shorter booksand picture books that match the history cycle. We read lots of picture books to match our SOTW rotation when the kids are younger.

 

ETA: Of course the flip side of this is that there may be a point at which you can't eat in peace before the requests begin. Just one chapter? I wish. Dh always tries to insitute the "Don't bug mom right after she finishes eating" rule, but it's not very successful and I have a hard time turning them down. My kids didn't start this way, though. We've been doing this for five years. Lots of practice.

[Chelli]

You might check out the booklists in my signature below. They are compiled from the Read Aloud Handbook by Jim Trelease.

 

The early years Pre-K, K, 1st, and 2nd have quite a few picture books listed and really simple chapter books that make good introductions.

 

The other thing that works around here is letting them play with something quietly while they listen (color, draw, tanagrams, mazes, dot to dots, etc.)

 

Now we do our read alouds at lunch. While they eat, I read. I also have a different read aloud going for each child. I read my 5 year old's first. Once his is read he's free to leave the table. Then I read my 2nd grader's read aloud, and she is free to leave after that. I finish with my 5th grader's book. We also have a family read aloud that they all listen to before bed.

[SeaConquest]

I seem to vaguely recall that Paddington was mentioned several times in the thread about books you are supposed to love, but don't. I agree with the others that suggest changing books. Dahl books are a great choice. We recently read The Green Ember (by S.D. Smith), and my son loved it. Who doesn't love rabbits with swords? There are so many great books. I have no compunction about setting aside books that just aren't working for us at that moment -- either for me or for them.

[Rosie_0801]

Paddington really needs an English accent. 

 

Oh yes. Some books demand a certain accent.

 

You lot would have thrown things at me if you'd had to listen to me reading Pollyanna.

[lea_lpz]

Honestly my opinion is most aren't until 7-8 and only in short reads, maybe 20 minutes tops. My dd could only really do picture books until 7 and my son'll be turning six in two weeks. One picture book is plenty for him in one sitting.

 

I am actually trying FIAR over the summer with both and if it works we could be doing this as our core for next school year.

 

I began to get the impression that while we were reading a lot we weren't doing much discussion or retaining much.

 

I am thinking of doing an evening chapter book at night with my 8 year old but got my almost six year old I am fine reading him a FIAR book and then just whatever picture books we pick at the library or from his book shelf :)

[Mommy22alyns]

I just wanted to chime in that WWE helped my kids listen to stories more easily. At first, I had to read a bit at a time and remind them to picture what I am saying as I read (like a movie playing in their heads). We didn't start WWE to improve listening skills, but it did have that effect. It was really helpful!

 

 

I was going to add this too.  It is definitely a skill that needs to be worked on, but it will come.

[Hunter]

The children that are the most advanced listeners are those that tagged along with older siblings and adults, and were forced to sit still while no one really cared if they understood, just that they were quiet and still.

[TheAttachedMama]

Don't be discouraged!

 

I think that listening is a skill that is built up slowly.   So don't give up if it is going well when you first start.   My first chapter book read aloud was a disaster.   I picked a Burgess book (another great book), but my kids just weren't ready for it.   Paddington is a GREAT book.   But, perhaps you need to start with a different book.  

 

My magic prescription for getting kids listening to chapter books is to start out with  Jenny and the Cat Club followed by A Necklace of Raindrops.

After that I like to then go on to any other easy to read first chapter book.   (My Father's Dragon, Teddy Robinson, etc.)   Sonlight Core A has some wonderful read aloud picks if you need some ideas. 

 

Another tip I have for you is to experiment with when you read.   Take advantage of times when you have a captive audience.   You really want to get them in the habit of being GOOD listeners--- not goofing off when you read and ignoring you.  (Charlotte Mason was on to something when she wrote about habit training!)   You don't want them to practice ignoring you....you want them to practice listening.   So I have looked for ways where I can subtly encourage that skill in my kids in a positive way. 

 

For example, I like to read when my kids are eating.  (During snacks or meal times.)   They sit at the table and I pull up a chair in between them so they can see any pictures.   This naturally keeps them still and quiet.    Periodically I find sneaky ways to ask questions to see if they are paying attention.   I don't want it to feel like work at first, so that is why I personally don't like to start with formal narrations.  I want it to be delight driven until the habit of wanting to listen to great books is well established.   I might stop reading and say, "Wait a second!  Who is that cat?!   I don't remember him."   or  "What happened last time we read?  I completely forget now."   (Basically, I play dumb and see if they can explain it to me.   :))   Sometimes I just stop and express an opinion about something or make a prediction, "Man, I really don't like that guy.   What do you think is going to happen to him?"   I don't want it to feel like I am quizzing them. 

 

Another time that works well is reading before bed.   Let them know that if they can listen quietly, you will let them stay up a bit later while you read.  ;)  

 

I also like to utilize audiobooks while we are in the car.  (Paddington has a GREAT audio version.  So you could even tell them you will finish it in the car.)   Establish a rule that there is no talking while the audiobook is on, but then leave it up to them whether or not they listen or not.   I bet you anything they will end up listening and loving it!

[Kylie]

Are you religious at all? My son hated listening to anything without seeing pictures until he started listening to Adventures in Odyssey. He will sit for hours and listen now. We read the Harry Potter books last year and now we're reading the Hobbit. But I owe it all to AIO because that got him to where he liked listening to stories and not just looking at pictures.

[HS Mom in NC]

I loathe and despise Paddington Bear. It's exactly the kind of British writing that grates on my nerves.  My 9 year old hated it too because it was so painfully boooooooooring.  After several chapters we ditched it.  My oldest liked it when she read it to herself in the mid elementary years. The middle rolled her eyes and said it was stupid. The younger two are like me, we like a real adventure.  Lord of the Rings, The Black Stallion, The Hobbit, Beowulf, Little Britches, The Chronicles of Narnia, and such. We're the kind of people who would rather poke ice picks into our ears than listen to Anne of Green Gables or other girlie girl books. Give us some blood and guts and peril and we're in.