Talk Me Out of Singapore for K

[MrsWeasley]

I'm thinking about Singapore for my middle child. He's my musical, artistic child. Will I regret this?

[Slache]

I very much don't like Singapore, but K is cheap and you would be able to move on to any 1st grade program you like if it doesn't work out.

[Ad astra]

Look into Right Start Math. I regret I didn't.

 

Singapore K level has two versions: Earlybird and Essential. Earlybird is colorful but designed for a classroom setting. Essential is b&w and workbooky. And the book A (for the first semester of K) of both editions is very basic and way too easy for K'ers IMO. We finished A & B in a few months and moved on to Primary Math Grade 1.

[SevenDaisies]

I absolutely love it, and as Slash said, if it doesn't work out, K is cheap. I assumed going in that my middle child would do best with Singapore, but to my surprise my oldest much preferred it. It's hard to know sometimes until you try.

[EKS]

I'll give it a shot.

 

The Singapore books for K (Earlybird) are terrible.  Really.  RightStart would be a much better choice.

 

I recommend RightStart for K and 1st (so through RS B), and then moving right into Singapore (Primary Mathematics) 2A.

[SevenDaisies]

Look into Right Start Math. I regret I didn't.

 

Singapore K level has two versions: Earlybird and Essential. Earlybird is colorful but designed for a classroom setting. Essential is b&w and workbooky. And the book A (for the first semester of K) of both editions is very basic and way too easy for K'ers IMO. We finished A & B in a few months and moved on to Primary Math Grade 1.

 

I didn't mention that I was speaking of Essentials. It does appear 'workbooky', but it's actually quite hands on. Each page details hands-on activities although the pages can easily be completed without the activities. I did them with my oldest, but my son wanted nothing to do with them. You will likely fly through Book A, but Book B will usually take longer. I really wanted to try RS so I bought it to try on my youngest. She wanted nothing to do with it, and I wasn't crazy about it either. It's hard to know without trying.

 

I should also mention that I am not into heavy academics for K. I like to keep K short and sweet. So while some may be consider it easy for K, I found it to be a fun, gentle intro.

[strawberryjam]

I LOVE Singapore. I am a die hard fan of Singapore Math. BUT, the Kindergarten stuff is nothing like the rest of it. I would actually suggest doing something else for Kindergarten. I like Critical Thinking Co.'s Kindergarten math workbook, and it's inexpensive.

[forty-two]

I'm doing 1a with my older K'er. (I though about RS, but I had SM, so I figured I'd try.) I wasn't sure how it would go, since unlike my logical oldest, my middle dd is much more artistic and musical, but it's went really well. I'm comfortable with math and we have a ton of manipulatives, so I added a lot of hands-on stuff as needed for teaching, but dd6 does great doing the workbook. Both my girls like the sorts of fun activities in the SM workbooks.

[Spy Car]

I remain enamored of starting out a Singapore-style math education using very concrete means, such as those used in Miquon (using Cuisenaire Rods). And doing a lot of modeling of numbers using base-10 "flats" (10x10x1 cm) as Hundred values, Orange R Rods (10x1x1 cm) as Tens, and the other C Rods as Units. Pairing this with "math names" (365 is 3-Hundreds, 6-Tens, 5-Units) rather than saying three hundred sixty-five. 12 is 1-Ten 2-Units, at least to start.

 

Miquon is a very rich resource. MEP has interesting complimentary resources. RS has good ideas and games.

 

Member "Rosie" has made videos on her website "Education Unboxed" that are a great resource for people curious to see this sort of hands-on learning in practice.

 

Bill

 

 

[MrsWeasley]

I love the idea of Right Start, but at $265 for RS A, holy pricetag, batman! 

[Slache]

You can get the old version of RS A at HSBC for $125 and that would give you a great head start on the manipulatives. We're doing the RS AL Abacus Activities guide which predates the scripted curriculum. It only uses the AL Abacus and games. 4ish years worth of stuff for about $100. I can't give a review yet, as we've just started, but I've heard good things.

[Slache]

Sample of unscripted AL Abacus Activities Guide.

[Laura Corin]

I used Earlybird (whatever version it was in about year 2000) with both my boys (neither of whom is particularly mathy).  It was lovely.  I have great memories of splashing water from one container to another on the patio.

[Spy Car]

I love the idea of Right Start, but at $265 for RS A, holy pricetag, batman! 

 

I picked up an old copy of "Activities for AL Abacus" when were we starting our math journey. This was Dr Cotter's precursor book that lead to RS, and (from what I understand) contains the core ideas behind RS, without being a flushed out into the scripted program.

 

Many of her ideas in the Abacus book resonated with me. I borrowed/stole many of them, particularly those that went along with my own predisposition that understanding the "place-value" system was critical to the understanding arithmetic, and that "counting" was an over-rated (and even injurious) practice to put up top.

 

"Seeing" groups is good.

 

I adapted most of the AL/RS ideas to C Rods and "flats." These made more sense to my child than the abacus (over-all). But we had an AL abacus that I like for the b-colored beads (5 yellow and 5 blue on each wire). These help children "see" numbers in relation to 5s (so 4 is one less than 5, 7 is 5 and 2, etc).

 

I made cards that represents values AL Abacus style (bi-colored dots), ones in Tally mark style, ones using two rods (5 each) of Red dots (to show 10), etc. There help children "see" groups.

 

The C Rods also help children see values as groups. Rods can also be use to show re-groupings to 10 (so an 8 rod and a 7 rod are the same value as a 10 Rod and [ ]?).

 

What I don't like is counting how many ducks are on a page, and the K level of Singapore (Earlybird) was full of this. I put it aside.

 

My 2 cents.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

Sample of unscripted AL Abacus Activities Guide.

 

I was typing as you posted, but this is the one I used.

 

Bill

[Jackie]

I love the idea of Right Start, but at $265 for RS A, holy pricetag, batman!

The upside to RightStart is that, except for the skinny little workbook, it is all non-consumable and resells very well. The manipulative kit is a one-time purchase. Adding up the costs of RightStart from K-5th grade new edition (manipulative kit and the book bundle for each year) it adds up to $690. That assumed D-F will cost the same as A-C do for the book bundle.

 

Adding up the parts of Singapore I would use (textbook, workbook, HIG, IP, CWP for 1-5 and Essentials for K), it comes to a total of $621 plus any additional money I would spend on manipulatives, so pretty much equal over the course of elementary school. But I'll likely recoup more of the money out of RightStart.

 

All that said, I went with RightStart because I liked all the manipulatives and games. DD wasn't writing well when she was asking for more and more math, so a workbook program simply wouldn't have worked for us. It was only later, when I had been considering a switch to Singapore, that I figured out RS wasn't really more expensive.

[Spy Car]

The RS "place value cards" are really nice resource a part of emphasis on learning place value early. They are very inexpensive. They work well with "flats" and C Rods too.

 

Bill

[sweetpea3829]

I am a huge fan of Singapore.  I strongly recommend it for most math students.

 

But...as others have said, the K level leaves much to be desired.  We have used Early Bird with all three of my boys (DD has math LDs and uses MUS).  Eldest DS completed KA and then chose to skip KB and move into 1A and was quite successful doing that.  But he is very math intuitive.  

 

Middle DS completed all of K but I really don't feel as though KB prepared him well enough for 1A.  The curriculum went from pretty laid back/easy to what almost seemed like a crash course in number bonds, addition, subtraction, money, and a few other topics.  I would have liked to have seen more time spent on the fundamental math skills that they need to be successful in Grade 1.  

 

Part of the problem for DS was that he completed KB in May/June of last year and then had the summer doing some minor review and when we started with 1A, he had pretty much forgotten most of what he had learned in KB.  Maybe that's my fault for not doing enough review and work on those foundations over the summer.

 

 

Anyways...Bill pointed out that a good introduction to a Singaporean style math is a hands on, concrete approach.  

 

I agree with this.  I REALLY like MUS Alpha as a precursor to Singapore 1A.  It is very gentle and the blocks give you that concrete component.  Plus, those blocks lend themselves wonderfully to the Singapore number bonds and bar models.  

 

The problem is that MUS Alpha is perhaps a bit much for early Kindergarten.  We are using it over the summer with our current Ker, and he will probably work on Singapore 1A beginning in September, concurrently with whatever he has left of MUS Alpha.  

 

So in a nutshell, our plan is to use MUS as an introduction and then followup with Singapore for the deeper conceptual approach that MUS tends to lack.  

[Alice]

I use Singapore with my musical, artistic, school-hating middle child. He doesn't like Math but I'm not sure any curriculum would change that (Beast Academy is coming closest). However, as far as learning the Math it's been great. 

 

I don't love the Singapore K math books. We typically just start with the 1A book but do it really slowly and add in lots of games and manipulatives. 

[wendyroo]

We have liked the Essentials books a lot, but we use them at 3 and 4 years old.  To us, they have a nice "Let's lay on the floor together and color and explore numbers" feel to them.  We combine them with Cuisenaire rod free play (during book A) and then start using the rods to illustrate math concepts (during book B).

 

Essentials A is very slow and gentle and has been perfect for my 3 year olds.  Essentials B is closer to K level work and has been the perfect challenge for my 4 year olds (well, Elliot isn't quite 4, and won't be done with book A for another month, but I anticipate book B will be perfect for him either then or in the fall).

 

Wendy

[redsquirrel]

Have you looked at MEP reception? For a kindergartner it might be too slow, but then you could always try MEP year 1.

 

With my four year old we used MEP reception, which we blew through from Sept-Nov. then I switched over to Miquon and slowly started MEP year 1. 

 

If your kindergartner is already 5 then you could start with MEP year 1. It is hands on and pretty much scripted. I found it very workable. There is some stuff that is made for a classroom, but I made it work, kwim? If it said to get 5 kids in a line then we got 5 stuffed animals, that sort of thing.

 

http://www.cimt.plymouth.ac.uk/projects/mepres/primary/default.htm

 

There are practice book pages and lesson book pages. It's been a while so I don't remember which is which, lol. But there are lots of threads on this board about MEP, or I am sure someone can help you out.  I really liked it and the transition from MEP to SM was smooth. It took me an evening to figure out and we were good to go!

[SereneHome]

I LOVE Singapore. I am a die hard fan of Singapore Math. BUT, the Kindergarten stuff is nothing like the rest of it. I would actually suggest doing something else for Kindergarten. I like Critical Thinking Co.'s Kindergarten math workbook, and it's inexpensive.

 

I also LOVE Singapore and I also REALLY like Critical Thinking Co.  I start all my kids on Critical Thinking math books.

 

But thanks to one of the posters here I got Singapore K book B for very cheap and my 5 yr old is loving it.  And I think it's pretty good into to 1A and 1B.

 

So.....I am sorry I can't talk you out of it as it has been a great success around here.  :)

[3 ladybugs]

I recommend that you at least look at Shiller. My 6 year old was hating math when we were doing Singapore, but now it is one of his favorites. Not sure if I would consider him artistic, but he clearly wasn't Singapore either.

[RKWAcademy]

We used, and liked, Essentials.  One of my kids needed more, so I added MUS Primer.  We still love Singapore.  We're nearly finished with 1A now.  My kids really liked the workbooks for Essentials.  Also, they were thrilled when we started PM 1A.  Between Essentials and 1A, I tried several (expensive) alternatives.  After all my trials, I wish I had used RightStart A.  However, it is pricey.  I think they got a lot out of MUS Primer.  I don't care for MUS going forward, but Primer was a nice little intro.

[RosieCotton]

I am a Singapore fan, but for K we just follow some of the reception and year 1 MEP, play LOTS of math games with the rods (and the MUS blocks too which I never sold), and depending upon the child move into SM 1A when they are ready (usually around Dec). When we've needed to fill time MCP has a decent Level K book with some good things in it (like a full page for each number that I copied for number penmanship etc) which was nice to have for busywork. But there are a lot of count the picture pages.

 

We are a big math family here and do more than required everyday and I can see where it would be hard to know what to do if we weren't.

 

If I were you I'd take a look at SM KB to see how/if that might fit in for you, and see what other things you can add for math enrichment on educationunboxed until ready for SM 1A.

 

I had no idea RS was THAT EXPENSIVE~! Holy smokes!

 

I agree with Bill . . .too much counting the ducks doesn't develop true math skill.

 

 

[mamaraby]

I used Earlybird with my art and music loving dd. I'm confused as to why this would be a problem or why it wouldn't work. We did Earlybird A and then went into 1A using the US edition. She's currently in 2A in the tail end of 1st grade. She's equally as math capable as her slightly more concrete thinking brother. Granted, her mental math process sometimes confuses me because it seems less logical to me. On the other hand, she clearly knows what she's doing and has a good sense of the numbers she's working with. I figured that was all that mattered.

 

I've never regretted going with Singapore. I'm going through Earlybird for the third and final time right now with my youngest. This time we'll make it through both Earlybird A/B before going to 1A, but that's because we started earlier.

[3rugrats]

another vote for miquon--I think it's great for K and fun

[arliemaria]

I picked up an old copy of "Activities for AL Abacus" when were we starting our math journey. This was Dr Cotter's precursor book that lead to RS, and (from what I understand) contains the core ideas behind RS, without being a flushed out into the scripted program.

 

Many of her ideas in the Abacus book resonated with me. I borrowed/stole many of them, particularly those that went along with my own predisposition that understanding the "place-value" system was critical to the understanding arithmetic, and that "counting" was an over-rated (and even injurious) practice to put up top.

 

"Seeing" groups is good.

 

I adapted most of the AL/RS ideas to C Rods and "flats." These made more sense to my child than the abacus (over-all). But we had an AL abacus that I like for the b-colored beads (5 yellow and 5 blue on each wire). These help children "see" numbers in relation to 5s (so 4 is one less than 5, 7 is 5 and 2, etc).

 

I made cards that represents values AL Abacus style (bi-colored dots), ones in Tally mark style, ones using two rods (5 each) of Red dots (to show 10), etc. There help children "see" groups.

 

The C Rods also help children see values as groups. Rods can also be use to show re-groupings to 10 (so an 8 rod and a 7 rod are the same value as a 10 Rod and [ ]?).

 

What I don't like is counting how many ducks are on a page, and the K level of Singapore (Earlybird) was full of this. I put it aside.

 

My 2 cents.

 

Bill

 

I just sent an Interlibrary Loan request for the Activities for AL Abacus book.  One of our goals for the upcoming year will be to see groups.  I do have an IKEA abacus.  Would you recommend taking it apart and painting it in two colors like the AL abacus?  I know there is also a Right Start abacus app if we really get into this method.  I also want to avoid a ton of counting.  Does Singapore continue to have a lot of this in1A/1B US Edition? 

[Slache]

I just sent an Interlibrary Loan request for the Activities for AL Abacus book.  One of our goals for the upcoming year will be to see groups.  I do have an IKEA abacus.  Would you recommend taking it apart and painting it in two colors like the AL abacus?  I know there is also a Right Start abacus app if we really get into this method.  I also want to avoid a ton of counting.  Does Singapore continue to have a lot of this in1A/1B US Edition? 

 

I have an Ikea abacus and an AL Abacus and would not do that. The AL Abacus is more than just different colors. Besides, it's only $10 and comes free with the games.

[Spy Car]

I just sent an Interlibrary Loan request for the Activities for AL Abacus book.  One of our goals for the upcoming year will be to see groups.  I do have an IKEA abacus.  Would you recommend taking it apart and painting it in two colors like the AL abacus?  I know there is also a Right Start abacus app if we really get into this method.  I also want to avoid a ton of counting.  Does Singapore continue to have a lot of this in1A/1B US Edition? 

 

It is useful to have a bi-color abacus (if you are using one). It makes seeing groups (relative to 5) easy. It is hard to see the same groups if the beads are all one color, or a party-mix.

 

Singapore 1A/B has a little more counting-type content than I would prefer. I heavily counter-programed against this. On the other hand Primary Mathematics also has world class re-grouping skill building. One just need to be mindful to teach the re-grouping (the Singapore emphasis is on re-grouping to 10s (100s, 1000s, et) rather than 5s and 10s. One of the strongest features of PM is the way it builds "mental math" via re-grouping. It is a very strong program (despite my nit-picks).

 

Personally, I think the C Rods are very useful in introducing Singapore-style math. I think the HIG author (who did an otherwise good job) really missed the boat by using "linking cubes" rather thn C Rods as the main manipulative. All the HIG exercise translate well to C Rods, I advocated doing the transposition.

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

I have an Ikea abacus and an AL Abacus and would not do that. The AL Abacus is more than just different colors. Besides, it's only $10 and comes free with the games.

 

Yeah, I agree. If you are really going to pursue the RS/AL method (as opposed to just casually using it on occasion) it would be important to have a "real" AL Abacus. It has features for place value on one side that are important for the program.

 

The C Rods worked better for my kid. I'm sure experiences vary. Being able to "see" (for example) that a base-10 "flat" is exactly 100 the area of a 1-Unit rod, and 10 times the area of a 10 Rod, helped my boy understand relative value better than a bead on one wire being worth 1-Unit, but a bead on another wire being worth One Hundred, or One Thousand. We still got a lot out of AL ideas.

 

Bill

[ondreeuh]

I used Math in Focus 1 (the new Singapore program) for kindergarten. It was great. You can slow it down easily- the text has lots of hands on games and demonstrations of how to use manipulatives to illustrate the concepts.

[kristin0713]

I started with RS and was so glad I did.  Then we made a seamless transition to Singapore when we needed more workbook-style reinforcement.  RS taught me how to teach math.  Singapore complements it perfectly and gives them more of an independent program. 

[Chelli]

For K I used a combo of MEP Reception (1st half of the year), Education Unboxed (all year to introduce concepts and for games), and Miquon Orange (2nd half of the year). We also practiced writing numbers, but I did that on my own without a curriculum. The three programs above worked really, really well together.

 

I was not impressed by Singapore Essentials or Earlybird either.

[MrSmith]

I'm thinking about Singapore for my middle child. He's my musical, artistic child. Will I regret this?

I'm answering the question in your topic. I am a big fan of SM. My kid used it for several years. That said, I found SMK Standards Ed. a big waste of time. It was almost like K was written after 1-6 as an 'Oh wait there's a market for this book in the US. Let's slap our name on it and see what happens."

[Mavy]

I feel like an oddball because I am using Singapore Essentials with my 5 year old now, with no intention of using Singapore for her past this year. It is perfect for us because it does not take a lot of my time to teach, and she loves it and begs to do more pages. Yes, A level is very easy, but she still needs that. Some kids would do find going straight to B. All the above programs mentioned are great as well but I would not tell you to dismiss Singapore K if it fits.

[Five More Minutes]

I used and enjoyed Singapore Essentials. The key for us was actually *doing* the activities at the bottom of each page before doing the writing portion of the page. The first book starts out easy, but it definitely increased in difficulty before the second. We used Miquon at the same time and were very happy.

[arliemaria]

I just sent an Interlibrary Loan request for the Activities for AL Abacus book.  One of our goals for the upcoming year will be to see groups.  I do have an IKEA abacus.  Would you recommend taking it apart and painting it in two colors like the AL abacus?  I know there is also a Right Start abacus app if we really get into this method.  I also want to avoid a ton of counting.  Does Singapore continue to have a lot of this in1A/1B US Edition? 

 

I picked up my ILL request for the Activities for AL Abacus book tonight.  It mentions a companion worksheet book.  Is this a necessary if I am not purchasing the sets?  This is a supplement to Singapore/Miquon labs.  I have a $20 gift card so I think I'll buy the AL Abacus tonight.  It is $13 on amazon.

[texasmama]

I LOVE Singapore. I am a die hard fan of Singapore Math. BUT, the Kindergarten stuff is nothing like the rest of it. I would actually suggest doing something else for Kindergarten. I like Critical Thinking Co.'s Kindergarten math workbook, and it's inexpensive.

I think I will go with this.  

 

We are a Singapore family.  All three kids have done SM.  My kindy students found the K book to be fun and simple.  Use it or don't.  Kindy math is not make it or break it.  

[Slache]

I picked up my ILL request for the Activities for AL Abacus book tonight. It mentions a companion worksheet book. Is this a necessary if I am not purchasing the sets? This is a supplement to Singapore/Miquon labs. I have a $20 gift card so I think I'll buy the AL Abacus tonight. It is $13 on amazon.

No. It offers more practice but it seems you will have plenty with your main program. The games are well loved though and if you get the game set you get an AL Abacus with it. $60.

[Targhee]

Don't use a curriculum for K, or if you must use RighStart or Miquon. RighStart is scripted and curriculum-ish, but the conceptual foundation it builds is *solid*. Miquon is child-directed, intuitive, and won't squelch the free-moving spirit of a young child.

 

We like Singapore (have used K-5 levels), but for K it's really meh.

[kbutton]

Before we knew about Miquon, we used MUS Primer. The Primer level is different from the rest of MUS. It is more topical than mastery like the other levels, and I think their clock is the best way to teach time that I've ever seen. My little guy ate it up. Primer is VERY easy to extend for a math intuitive kid. A few well-placed questions with decimal street, and my son was regrouping numbers. 

 

You can't lose with Education Unboxed as a supplement either. I prefer c-rods to the MUS rods, but the MUS stuff comes with decimal street and clock templates that fit their rods.

 

We moved into Miquon after MUS Primer.