How important is the "two hour rule" with vegetables?

[cottonmama]

I accidentally left some fresh beets out last night while I was at church... it probably was 3 1/2 hours since I had taken them out of the pot. I peeled the cooked beets with my hands, if that makes a difference.

 

What says the hive?  Eat them or toss them?

[umsami]

I would probably eat them.  I view those rules as pertaining more to animal product containing items.

[kiana]

I would eat them without a moment of hesitation.

[Soror]

I didn't know there was a 2 hr rule, I would eat them.

[Lady Marmalade]

This wouldn't even be a question for me. 

[Katy]

I can't be objective because I hate beets.  But if I left out something like sweet potatoes or carrots or squash I'd eat them.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Eat them.  If you eat beets, that is!   :leaving:

[SparklyUnicorn]

I would eat them.

 

Starches left over night are far more hazardous. 

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Everything I've read has referred to a four-hour window at room temperature, so I wouldn't worry, and I would enjoy the heck out of those beets :D

 

ETA: Just did some Googling, and I see some references to two hours now. Regardless, I think anyone who has cooked or eaten a holiday or large family meal has broken this rule, and with riskier foods than beets! I would still eat the beets, and honestly, I don't think I'd even wonder about their safety.

[katilac]

I would eat them without a second thought. It wouldn't even occur to me that they might have gone bad. 

 

Of course, I pan-fried some potatoes yesterday and intentionally left them sitting out in the pot for both lunch and supper. I think many of the food handling rules are insane. 

 

I also hate that there are constant articles about being super cautious and erring on the side of throwing out food, but there are also constant articles about how we greedy Americans waste so much food. Give us a break sometimes! 

[chocolatechip]

Definitely eat!

[regentrude]

I think the 2 hour rule for all foods is ridiculous overkill.

When I was growing up, non meat foods were generally left out at room temperature for far longer, and nobody ever had ill effects.

 

 

[regentrude]

Starches left over night are far more hazardous. 

 

Huh?

Rice and pasta keep at room temp overnight just fine.

And bread and baked goods far longer.

 

[marbel]

I thought the 2-hour rule was for meat and dairy products.   I'd eat cooked vegetables that were left out overnight.

[go_go_gadget]

It's so important that I've never heard of it. I also think nothing of it now that I have heard of it.

[Katy]

I think there is something to potatoes left out in something moist.  Like potato salad doesn't go bad because of the mayo, it goes bad because of the potatoes.  I can't remember the reasoning, only that it did not make sense to me and that in Europe most people leave opened mayo at room temperature instead of keeping it in the fridge.  Maybe someone else here remembers why potatoes are dangerous?

[lllll]

..

[Runningmom80]

Everything I've read has referred to a four-hour window at room temperature, so I wouldn't worry, and I would enjoy the heck out of those beets :D

 

ETA: Just did some Googling, and I see some references to two hours now. Regardless, I think anyone who has cooked or eaten a holiday or large family meal has broken this rule, and with riskier foods than beets! I would still eat the beets, and honestly, I don't think I'd even wonder about their safety.

 

I've definitely eaten things that have sat out way longer than 2 hours, especially when libations were involved. :leaving:

[SparklyUnicorn]

Huh?

Rice and pasta keep at room temp overnight just fine.

And bread and baked goods far longer.

 

 

Not true with cooked rice and pasta.

 

Bread is drier. 

 

I'm not overly paranoid and careful with food, but that was one of the surprising things I learned.  That wet starches left out is not safe.  Lot of people don't think that is true.

[katilac]

I think the 2 hour rule for all foods is ridiculous overkill.

When I was growing up, non meat foods were generally left out at room temperature for far longer, and nobody ever had ill effects.

 

When I was growing up, it was very common to cook supper in the morning, because it gets so hot during the day. When it was cooked, you just turned off the heat and covered it, and heated it back up in the evening. Anything but seafood. 

[kewb]

First I am hearing of a 2 hour rule. I would eat them.

[katilac]

Not true with cooked rice and pasta.

 

Bread is drier. 

 

I'm not overly paranoid and careful with food, but that was one of the surprising things I learned.  That wet starches left out is not safe.  Lot of people don't think that is true.

 

I have read this also, and I try to be more cautious than I used to be, but I'm far laxer than they recommend. I can't help it - the other thing we did when I was growing up is cook up a big batch of sweet potatoes, which would then stay in or on the oven for DAYS for people to randomly grab and eat. 

 

And rice would most definitely be left out all day. 

[regentrude]

Not true with cooked rice and pasta.

 

Bread is drier. 

 

I'm not overly paranoid and careful with food, but that was one of the surprising things I learned.  That wet starches left out is not safe.  Lot of people don't think that is true.

 

Having eaten pasta and rice that had been left out overnight without ill effects for anybody in our extended family for my entire life, I am not convinced.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Having eaten pasta and rice that had been left out overnight without ill effects for anybody in our family for my entire life, I am not convinced they are "not safe".

 

I eat stuff left out too.  I was taught rice and pasta are a huge no no.

 

I thaw my meat on the counter too.

 

 

Maybe all those years of doing that has made us immune. 

[Laura Corin]

It wouldn't occur to me that that was a problem.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Well it's wet, warm, and a source of food for humans and bacteria.  Don't know why that wouldn't be a prime candidate for potential problems. 

 

 

[Slartibartfast]

Huh?

Rice and pasta keep at room temp overnight just fine.

And bread and baked goods far longer.

Rice is actually one of the worst things to leave out and then eat.

 

Bacillus cereus Is often due to leaving out rice or pasta, it will cause some nasty vomitting and diarreah.

 

Food poisoning from Chinese food is often due to the rice, it is even called "Fried Rice Syndrome" because the rice used to be cooked then left out and then fried (but I think the health departments now tell them they cannot do that)or left out on buffets.

 

http://www.abc.net.au/health/talkinghealth/factbuster/stories/2009/01/27/2475255.htm

[Jean in Newcastle]

Yes, rice can harbor bacteria.  But it is also true that millions of Japanese (to take just one Asian nation) leave rice out (covered and not open to the air) and eat it the next day for years with no ill effects.  

[Slartibartfast]

Yes, rice can harbor bacteria.  But it is also true that millions of Japanese (to take just one Asian nation) leave rice out (covered and not open to the air) and eat it the next day for years with no ill effects.  

 

The bacteria is IN the rice. Leaving it covered won't matter. 

 

Even if they do leave the rice out all the time it is still a common source of food poisoning, they get it in Japan.

 

 

 

The types of B. cereus illness reported appear to differ significantly by geography. In Japan, the emetic form is found about 10 times more frequently than the diarrheal type.5 In Europe and North America, the diarrheal type is more frequently reported.6 These differences may be due to variations in diet among the world’s regions.

http://www.ecolab.com/innovation/microbial-risks/b-cereus

[cottonmama]

Thanks, everybody!  We just ate them, and I will say it would have been a shame to have wasted them.  These were good and sweet, and the kids had a blast comparing tongues afterwards.  :P

[SparklyUnicorn]

The bacteria is IN the rice. Leaving it covered won't matter. 

 

Even if they do leave the rice out all the time it is still a common source of food poisoning, they get it in Japan.

 

 

 

http://www.ecolab.com/innovation/microbial-risks/b-cereus

 

I was surprised to learn this about rice in food safety classes.  Now that is the one thing I do not do.  I'm not super careful about everything, but rice I am. 

[VaKim]

 

 

 

Maybe all those years of doing that has made us immune. 

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere a long time ago that there is something to this. People who eat certain things all the time are not affected by it. But someone who has been very careful all their lives, and then eats something a bit tainted, will get deathly ill from it. One example given was the poor people who used to go through grocery store dumpsters and get out the meat that used to be thrown in there. They did it all the time and were used to it, so didn't get sick from it. 

 

We have never in our lives been terribly careful with food, like is recommended now. My mom never refrigerated jelly, mayo, mustard, or ketchup. And we thaw meat on the counter quite often. Plus we leave food out for hours to cool off before sticking it in the fridge. None of us have ever gotten sick from it. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere a long time ago that there is something to this. People who eat certain things all the time are not affected by it. But someone who has been very careful all their lives, and then eats something a bit tainted, will get deathly ill from it. One example given was the poor people who used to go through grocery store dumpsters and get out the meat that used to be thrown in there. They did it all the time and were used to it, so didn't get sick from it. 

 

We have never in our lives been terribly careful with food, like is recommended now. My mom never refrigerated jelly, mayo, mustard, or ketchup. And we thaw meat on the counter quite often. Plus we leave food out for hours to cool off before sticking it in the fridge. None of us have ever gotten sick from it. 

 

I feel that way and live that way in general. I don't buy antibacterial soaps or hand sanitizing products.  I don't think it makes things better, but worse.

 

I thaw my meat on the counter usually.  Always have.  The only exception is if it is very warm in the house.  The meat often won't thaw otherwise.  We've always left our hardboiled Easter eggs out for days and eaten them.  I won't leave cooked meat overnight, but I often make dinner in the early afternoon or morning and it's out all day for the taking (except if it is very warm in the house).

[KungFuPanda]

I think there is something to potatoes left out in something moist. Like potato salad doesn't go bad because of the mayo, it goes bad because of the potatoes. I can't remember the reasoning, only that it did not make sense to me and that in Europe most people leave opened mayo at room temperature instead of keeping it in the fridge. Maybe someone else here remembers why potatoes are dangerous?

It's something about potatoes being a perfect petri dish. I left some baked potatoes on the stove overnight not long ago. I just forgot to put them in the fridge. I googled because I was thinking of frying them up with my eggs. After a little research I tossed them.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I think there is something to potatoes left out in something moist.  Like potato salad doesn't go bad because of the mayo, it goes bad because of the potatoes.  I can't remember the reasoning, only that it did not make sense to me and that in Europe most people leave opened mayo at room temperature instead of keeping it in the fridge.  Maybe someone else here remembers why potatoes are dangerous?

 

Not that I know most Europeans, but I have yet to meet one that kept mayo out.

 

Probably the craziest thing I've seen is leaving hard boiled eggs out for days when it's 80 or warmer in an apartment. I refused to eat them. 

 

I have left hard boiled eggs out,but never under those extreme circumstances. 

[Liz CA]

Eat them.  If you eat beets, that is!   :leaving:

 

Jean, do you need a delicious recipe for Harvard beets??  :) :)

 

OP, eat the beets. I am not quite sure if you left fresh, uncooked beets out - then definitely no problem. They are a root veggie that does not spoil over night or even longer, even if you cooked them and then left them out, I would have no qualms.

[sunflowerlady]

Never heard that about potatoes, rice and pasta. Interesting. Those would have been foods I would have the least worries about.

[regentrude]

Probably the craziest thing I've seen is leaving hard boiled eggs out for days when it's 80 or warmer in an apartment. I refused to eat them. 

 

I have left hard boiled eggs out,but never under those extreme circumstances. 

 

Elsewhere in the world even raw eggs are stored at room temperature. In stores.

 

Hardboiled eggs in an intact shell - what do you think would happen to them in a few days?

Back home it is standard to keep the dyed hard boiled Easter eggs for days without refrigeration.

I have even seen articles in (German) magazines that stated hard boiled eggs can be kept for several weeks at room temp - the question comes up every Easter.

 

There is a lot of paranoia in this country when it comes to germs.

[kiana]

If it's THAT warm, they can go off -- I've had it happen when it was 80+. I cracked it open, it smelled terrible, so I tossed it. The pig ate those -- they didn't seem to bother him.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Elsewhere in the world even raw eggs are stored at room temperature. In stores.

 

Hardboiled eggs in an intact shell - what do you think would happen to them in a few days?

Back home it is standard to keep the dyed hard boiled Easter eggs for days without refrigeration.

I have even seen articles in (German) magazines that stated hard boiled eggs can be kept for several weeks at room temp - the question comes up every Easter.

 

There is a lot of paranoia in this country when it comes to germs.

 

OK, it's kind of OT, but I have a question about the eggs. Everything I've read says that it's perfectly safe to leave eggs out unrefrigerated if they haven't been washed ye. Apparently, they're laid with a protective film over them (the "bloom," I think?), and once washed, that protective film is gone, leaving the porous surface open to bacteria. But does that mean that stores in Europe are all selling unwashed eggs?

 

I agree that there's a lot of paranoia here, about everything. We seem to think if we can do everything juuuuuuuust right, maybe we'll live forever and never be inconvenienced! Then again, though, I've had food poisoning, and I'd really rather not have to go through that again. So sometimes that means throwing away $2 worth of food so I don't feel like I'm putting myself or my family at risk, or taking extra pains not to leave food sitting out overnight, just in case. I'm usually OK with it. (It's when I have to throw out meat that I really get upset *sigh*) 

 

I think we're all trying to find a good balance between not wasting food and taking precautions against food poisoning.

[kiana]

OK, it's kind of OT, but I have a question about the eggs. Everything I've read says that it's perfectly safe to leave eggs out unrefrigerated if they haven't been washed ye. Apparently, they're laid with a protective film over them (the "bloom," I think?), and once washed, that protective film is gone, leaving the porous surface open to bacteria. But does that mean that stores in Europe are all selling unwashed eggs?

 

As far as the eggs, I think they *are* unwashed -- just brushed off. Eggs usually aren't that dirty unless the hen really is living in squalor.

 

The funny thing is that all the things I've eaten where I've been like "I hope I don't get food poisoning from this, but I have NO money to get more" were fine. There've been some of those where if anyone asked here I'd say "NO NO NO" and yet I ate them anyway because it was better than going hungry or going begging, which were the only other two options.

 

The only time I got food poisoning (and it was a mild case) was from McDonalds.

 

ETA: (btw, I'm fully aware that I've just been lucky. I toss the stuff now because I'm employed.)

[regentrude]

 Everything I've read says that it's perfectly safe to leave eggs out unrefrigerated if they haven't been washed ye. Apparently, they're laid with a protective film over them (the "bloom," I think?), and once washed, that protective film is gone, leaving the porous surface open to bacteria. But does that mean that stores in Europe are all selling unwashed eggs?

 

Yes. It is against the law for the producer to wash the eggs, because that damages the film and allows bacteria to enter the egg.

The egg may be cleaned mechanically of dirt.

It is not allowed to sell dirty eggs.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Elsewhere in the world even raw eggs are stored at room temperature. In stores.

 

Hardboiled eggs in an intact shell - what do you think would happen to them in a few days?

Back home it is standard to keep the dyed hard boiled Easter eggs for days without refrigeration.

I have even seen articles in (German) magazines that stated hard boiled eggs can be kept for several weeks at room temp - the question comes up every Easter.

 

There is a lot of paranoia in this country when it comes to germs.

 

Ok so it was in the 80s and even as high as 90 and my BIL bought these hard boiled eggs at the store and kept them on his kitchen table in direct sunlight in his very hot apartment.  I don't know, it kinda wigged me out.  I wasn't about to find out what would happen.. 

 

We used to keep them out at Easter and eat them, but it wasn't that hot. 

 

I was told in food safety classes that hard boiled eggs last for even less time than raw eggs.  I'm not making this stuff up.  Not suggesting you are either.  Just kinda odd we have learned such radically different things. 

 

I'm not a germaphobe by any stretch of the imagination.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Yes. It is against the law for the producer to wash the eggs, because that damages the film and allows bacteria to enter the egg.

The egg may be cleaned mechanically of dirt.

It is not allowed to sell dirty eggs.

 

So I assume though that this film is gone after boiling them.  How can a hard boiled egg remain safe to eat for weeks? 

[Jean in Newcastle]

When we were in the Philippines our relatives would leave food out all day covered only by a mosquito net to keep out the flies (which I appreciated).  But no refrigeration in temperatures in the 90's!   :ack2: I made sure that we only ate the food that was fresh cooked.  Even so, dd got violently ill from a popscicle which I didn't realize that vendors made from tap water.  None of the Filipino relatives ever got sick.  

[regentrude]

Ok so it was in the 80s and even as high as 90 and my BIL bought these hard boiled eggs at the store and kept them on his kitchen table in direct sunlight in his very hot apartment.  I don't know, it kinda wigged me out.  I wasn't about to find out what would happen.. 

 

If they are bought at the store, any source I have seen says they keep even longer that home boiled eggs, because they seal the shell with a coating.

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

If they are bought at the store, any source I have seen says they keep even longer that home boiled eggs, because they seal the shell with a coating.

 

 

Could be, but I can't imagine that keeping them at higher than normal room temperatures in sunlight is a good idea. 

[regentrude]

So I assume though that this film is gone after boiling them.  How can a hard boiled egg remain safe to eat for weeks? 

 

Boiling kills germs. And the shell protects the egg so germs from the outside can't enter. This works of course only if one does not damage the shell, which is why the eggs should not be shocked under cold water, since that can cause cracking.

 

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

As far as the eggs, I think they *are* unwashed -- just brushed off. Eggs usually aren't that dirty unless the hen really is living in squalor.

 

The funny thing is that all the things I've eaten where I've been like "I hope I don't get food poisoning from this, but I have NO money to get more" were fine. There've been some of those where if anyone asked here I'd say "NO NO NO" and yet I ate them anyway because it was better than going hungry or going begging, which were the only other two options.

 

The only time I got food poisoning (and it was a mild case) was from McDonalds.

 

ETA: (btw, I'm fully aware that I've just been lucky. I toss the stuff now because I'm employed.)

 

 

Yes. It is against the law for the producer to wash the eggs, because that damages the film and allows bacteria to enter the egg.

The egg may be cleaned mechanically of dirt.

It is not allowed to sell dirty eggs.

 

Oh, very interesting! Now I wonder if the farm eggs I usually buy are washed or not. I never wash them before I cook them, but maybe I should? We do sometimes eat raw egg in things like cookie dough, and if I make fried eggs, of course the yolk is liquidy. I'll be sure to ask the next time I buy farm eggs (which I try to do primarily, though sometimes I can't time it right and end up needing eggs from the store). 

 

Thanks!

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

The only time I got food poisoning (and it was a mild case) was from McDonalds.

 

ETA: (btw, I'm fully aware that I've just been lucky. I toss the stuff now because I'm employed.)

 

Yeah, I agree that most of the time we're really pretty safe. I was able to trace my food poisoning to a container of crab dip that I bought at Costco. There was a recall for either Salmonella or Listeria on that batch. It was comparatively mild, but I still don't ever want to do it again :lol: