Can someone not from the US answer this ?

[*lifeoftheparty*]

DS10 asked me this question a few days ago, I told him I had no idea- and thought wow- "I can't believe I have never wondered the same thing" - and meant to look it up.... I just did, but I'm not finding an answer.

We were reading about a disorder that a friends baby was just diagnosed with, and whatever we were reading said the disorder was more likely to affect Caucasions than African-Americans.... he asked what Caucasion meant and we discussed the terms Caucasion and African-American, and that many people prefer those terms, over "white people" and "black people".

 

So, then he asked, "So, what do they call black people who don't live in America? Like, what about black people who live in Italy, or England- do they just call them African?"

 

I have no idea. Someone care to enlighten me??

 

 

[Incognito]

Where I live (in Western Canada), one would generally say the country they were from - Jamaican, Haitian, etc.  If the person isn't a direct immigrant from another country, then I think it'd just be "black".  Usually the nationality is fairly evident because of the culture here - people with dark skin are generally from certain countries and here for certain reasons.  I am sure it is different in different areas of Canada (especially more urban areas).

 

I found it interesting to move here and people from India were called "East Indian".  Probably as a distinction from the many First Nations groups here, and because there is a very large East Indian population.

 

 

 

 

 

[Dory]

In Canada where I am (northern Alberta) we call black people African American or Black.

 

Technically though, we are still in America here.

[Dory]

Where I live (in Western Canada), one would generally say the country they were from - Jamaican, Haitian, etc.  If the person isn't a direct immigrant from another country, then I think it'd just be "black".  Usually the nationality is fairly evident because of the culture here - people with dark skin are generally from certain countries and here for certain reasons.  I am sure it is different in different areas of Canada (especially more urban areas).

 

I found it interesting to move here and people from India were called "East Indian".  Probably as a distinction from the many First Nations groups here, and because there is a very large East Indian population.

 

None of the black people I've known in my life originate from a different country. They have all been born and raised in Canada with the exception of a couple little boys I know that were adopted from the US at birth.

[Rosie_0801]

Our black people are either Indigenous Australians and could be called all sorts of things. Indigenous, Aboriginal, Murri, Koorie etc. The rest are African immigrants and are either called African, Australian or African Australians. Most of them are from Somalia or Sudan, I think.

[hornblower]

West Coast Canada. We tend to say black. 

The reality is that many blacks here are not African American at all, but might be from Africa or from the Caribbean. Or they might be more Canadian than me : I worked with a black woman & we had to do a multicultural training workshop where we wrote how many generations we had to go back before we worked our tree out of Canada. She was the 'winner'. Her ancestors were in the Maritimes for ages....

We tend to have more immigrants from Africa whereas Ontario has a much higher population from Haiti & Dominican Republic etc.

I think this wikipedia entry is quite accurate:

"The term African Canadian is sometimes used by Black Canadians who trace their heritage to the first slaves brought by British and French colonists to the mainland of North America,^[3] but many Blacks of Caribbean origin in Canada reject the term African Canadian as an elision of the uniquely Caribbean aspects of their heritage,^[5] and instead identify as Caribbean Canadian.^[5] Unlike in the United States where African American is a widely accepted term, due to these tensions and controversies between the African and Caribbean communities, the term "Black Canadian" is accepted in the Canadian context.^[6]""


 

[Guest]

Interesting question. I wouldn't have known, either.

 

I did know (in the US) a woman who was of Jamaican descent. It really annoyed her to be called African American. To her, it was like assuming anyone with red hair is Irish.

[*lifeoftheparty*]

Thanks for the replies! This is just so interesting....

 

 

[Amira]

In Mexico the terms negro (black) or moreno (dark-skinned) are generally used to refer to people with African ancestry and others whose skin isn't as white as the speaker's.  Afromexicanos is another option which would only refer to people with African ancestry.  

 

In Kyrgyzstan and other Russian-speaking countries, the usually Russian word for black (черный) usually refers to people whose skin isn't white, but not necessarily to Africans or people of African descent.  Kyrgyz friends who'd been in Russia said they were often referred to as черный.  Ðегр (negr) is the more common term for Africans and was borrowed from Spanish.  

[Jasperstone]

Maori for New Zealanders.

 

Aboriginal fot native Australians.

 

We don't really refer to them as black. Sometimes we shorten the name for Aborigines. ... but it's not PC to do so.

[jobos12]

Also Aussie, so the same the same as Rosie's comment upthread. Adding that if the person was from America, I would call them African American.

 

I have a friend who married I guy from Tobago (? I think), so his skin is a much darker colour. However, he grew up in Scotland, so has a Scottish accent. It's all kinds of confusing :D

[Melinda in VT]

This reminds me of the Sydney Olympics. DH and I heard a sportscaster refer to an "African American" athlete who was competing for the pride of his (or her, can't remember) Aboriginal people. <raised eyebrow>

[Lawyer&Mom]

The 2010 US census asked if a person was "Black, African-American or Negro." So yes, term black is used.

[Tsuga]

An interesting point is that in many parts of Europe, blacks are economic migrants, not brought over as slaves. So they know which country they are from and may call themselves Nigerian heritage, Ghanaian, or whatever. People also use the term "black" or "person of color" if they don't know where someone is from.

 

 

In Kyrgyzstan and other Russian-speaking countries, the usually Russian word for black (черный) usually refers to people whose skin isn't white, but not necessarily to Africans or people of African descent.  Kyrgyz friends who'd been in Russia said they were often referred to as черный.  Ðегр (negr) is the more common term for Africans and was borrowed from Spanish.

 

In my experience, nyegretyanin was the politically correct word in Russia itself. Nyegr was presumed to be too close, by my friends in Moscow and St. Petersburg, to the American slur. However, this was a very cosmopolitan group. Chyorniy or worse, chyornozh**** were used to refer to Central Asians. :(

[bolt.]

As a Canadian, there is not much call to be talking about black people, or most other 'races' as groups -- I don't know if it's impolite and avoided, or just mostly not nessisary. I know that if it's not nessisary, it's definitely considered impolite.

 

For example, Canadians would not usually say, "Black students have different educational needs than white students." -- not because it's rude to say 'black' but because we actually don't think that's true, and many people consider it a racist idea at the heart: akin to saying that 'boys are better at math than girls' is a sexist idea, or other things like that.

 

There are sincere contexts where observations around ethnic groups and 'races' might be welcome -- such as the academic study of sociology or statistics -- but it's uncommon and awkward conversationally. There needs to be a context, and the context would set the vocabulary.

 

I've heard 'African Canadian' as well as, 'an immigrant from (specific place)' as descriptors, but only when the the data is relevant. If someone is a settled Canadian, a tax-payer with no language barrier or immigration-based culture issues... Nobody needs to specify which type of skin they have. (Unless you are picking a specific person out if a crowd.)

 

To discribe one person, an individual that you know, that you needed to discribe physically, you would use 'black'. Ie there are two people at my Church with my first name. The other one is black. If someone needed to know, "Which 'bolt' is on the finance committee?" It would be acceptable to say, 'the black one' or 'the white one' if you didn't know our last names.

[Jasperstone]

To use *black* here is very non PC....

 

Heck, they have even changed 'Baa, Baa Black Sheep' to 'Rainbow Sheep'- I kid you not! That was taught in my dd's Kindy!

 

And blackboard to chalkboard!

[Rosie_0801]

To use *black* here is very non PC....

 

Heck, they have even changed 'Baa, Baa Black Sheep' to 'Rainbow Sheep'- I kid you not! That was taught in my dd's Kindy!

 

And blackboard to chalkboard!

 

"Black" is being reclaimed in some places, so sayeth the Koorie Mail newspaper.

 

Still, I wouldn't use it unless asked to.

[chiguirre]

Venezuela is similar to Mexico, but Negro isn't insulting, it's descriptive. We also use it as a term of endearment like Gordo.

[Cinder]

And blackboard to chalkboard!

I thought blackboard changed to chalkboard when the finish of the board changed from black to green?

[Mom in High Heels]

Well, I'm American too, but I'm going to answer!

 

When we lived in Germany, the term used was black.  I had a few American friends who hated the term African-American, because, as they said, they'd never been to Africa, and were just black Americans, like I am a white American.

[Tanaqui]

To use *black* here is very non PC....

 

Heck, they have even changed 'Baa, Baa Black Sheep' to 'Rainbow Sheep'- I kid you not! That was taught in my dd's Kindy!

 

And blackboard to chalkboard!

 

Yes, and it was taught at our preschool programs as well - not for racial reasons, but because it gave them an excuse to show drawings of sheep in different colors and reinforce color learning.

 

Not everything is about being "oh so PC".

 

Likewise, the term "chalkboard" has been around since at least the early 1800s. I really think you're making a mountain out of a pretty non-existent molehill.

 

[Farrar]

Also in the US, but I'll add that I've known black people who didn't love the term African-American because it implies a certain type of African ancestry and these people were Caribbean American. I use whatever term is preferred by the people in question, but I see Black used in the African-American community here in the US plenty so I do tend to use both terms.

[Butter]

My MIL grew up in England and now lives in Ireland.  She has always called black people black.

[Kiara.I]

In Canada where I am (northern Alberta) we call black people African American or Black.

 

Technically though, we are still in America here.

 

In my area of Canada we would use black, if required.  I will use negro, as being more technically correct, if I am specifically discussing race.

 

I would NEVER say African American because this is not America.  To be honest, I had never met a Canadian before your post who would have used the term American to describe anything in Canada.

[Incognito]

As a Canadian, there is not much call to be talking about black people, or most other 'races' as groups -- I don't know if it's impolite and avoided, or just mostly not nessisary. I know that if it's not nessisary, it's definitely considered impolite.

 

For example, Canadians would not usually say, "Black students have different educational needs than white students." -- not because it's rude to say 'black' but because we actually don't think that's true, and many people consider it a racist idea at the heart: akin to saying that 'boys are better at math than girls' is a sexist idea, or other things like that.

 

There are sincere contexts where observations around ethnic groups and 'races' might be welcome -- such as the academic study of sociology or statistics -- but it's uncommon and awkward conversationally. There needs to be a context, and the context would set the vocabulary.

 

I've heard 'African Canadian' as well as, 'an immigrant from (specific place)' as descriptors, but only when the the data is relevant. If someone is a settled Canadian, a tax-payer with no language barrier or immigration-based culture issues... Nobody needs to specify which type of skin they have. (Unless you are picking a specific person out if a crowd.)

 

To discribe one person, an individual that you know, that you needed to discribe physically, you would use 'black'. Ie there are two people at my Church with my first name. The other one is black. If someone needed to know, "Which 'bolt' is on the finance committee?" It would be acceptable to say, 'the black one' or 'the white one' if you didn't know our last names.

 

See, and when I moved to Canada I found my sensibilities offended time and again by people randomly adding on the race of someone when it was unnecessary in the conversation.  I tend to think that some of the differences in this are actually more of an urban/rural thing than a national thing.  Or perhaps a socio-economic difference.

[*lifeoftheparty*]

As a Canadian, there is not much call to be talking about black people, or most other 'races' as groups -- I don't know if it's impolite and avoided, or just mostly not nessisary. I know that if it's not nessisary, it's definitely considered impolite.

 

For example, Canadians would not usually say, "Black students have different educational needs than white students." -- not because it's rude to say 'black' but because we actually don't think that's true, and many people consider it a racist idea at the heart: akin to saying that 'boys are better at math than girls' is a sexist idea, or other things like that.

 

There are sincere contexts where observations around ethnic groups and 'races' might be welcome -- such as the academic study of sociology or statistics -- but it's uncommon and awkward conversationally. There needs to be a context, and the context would set the vocabulary.

 

I've heard 'African Canadian' as well as, 'an immigrant from (specific place)' as descriptors, but only when the the data is relevant. If someone is a settled Canadian, a tax-payer with no language barrier or immigration-based culture issues... Nobody needs to specify which type of skin they have. (Unless you are picking a specific person out if a crowd.)

 

To discribe one person, an individual that you know, that you needed to discribe physically, you would use 'black'. Ie there are two people at my Church with my first name. The other one is black. If someone needed to know, "Which 'bolt' is on the finance committee?" It would be acceptable to say, 'the black one' or 'the white one' if you didn't know our last names.

 

See, this does come up.... DS has a very diverse family and friends group- so he frequently uses someones skin color, whether it be white, black or brown- to describe people when I don't know who he's talking about... I have often wondered if I should discourage him from doing so.

 

 

[*lifeoftheparty*]

Sorry- US people can answer too, I just wanted to catch the attention of non-US people ;)

 

[Southern Ivy]

See, this does come up.... DS has a very diverse family and friends group- so he frequently uses someones skin color, whether it be white, black or brown- to describe people when I don't know who he's talking about... I have often wondered if I should discourage him from doing so.

 

 

My sociology professor (MANY years ago) challenged us to go a week and not use any descriptors related to skin color when talking about people. It was incredibly hard. I don't think we realize how much we rely on a person's appearance to aid us in describing them. 

It was fascinating. 

[Barb_]

I don't care for the term "African American"   I grew up in South Florida where someone with dark skin was usually either from the Bahamas, South America, Haiti, Cuba, Jamaica, or assorted other islander.  It's like everyone assuming my kids who are half Ecuadorian are automatically Mexican because we live in AZ.  African-American seems more like a term inflicted on people than a term anyone chose for themselves. I usually find myself going through convoluted motions to avoid using a descriptor at all if I don't know someone well.

 

My kids have a weird multicultural thing going on, and we live in AZ, so people often ask them their origin.  My college daughter usually just says, "I'm half white and half brown." One of her (overseas origin) friends was really irritated when she mentioned something about her dad's family being from Equador.  He thought she was lying to him by calling herself half brown, lol  She had to explain that South American people are generally considered to be hispanic as well. "But EVERYONE here is from Mexico!" he insisted.  Totally blew his mind.

[HS Mom in NC]

And to add one more wrench in the works, my brother (in the US) works with a Caucasian immigrant from South Africa who is now a US citizen. He has referred to himself as African-American on documents asking about ethnic heritage. People tend to want to correct him, but there isn't usually a box that's more accurate, so it causes frustration.  Also, when Americans ask about his background he's says he's African-American as his family has lived in South Africa for many many generations. It's usually the accent that gets people asking because it's not one many of us have heard before so it's hard for us to know based on the sound of it (although some Americans mistake it for an Australian accent.)

 

I use both black and African-American. That's what I hear blacks and African-Americans using for themselves, but to be accurate, there isn't a large community of them here, so how it compares to other places I don't know.

[lewelma]

In NZ, Africans are 'African', Indians are 'Indian', Polynesians are 'Polynesian' or 'Islander'.  Interesting, people from Europe are not 'white' or 'Caucasian', but rather the Maori word -- 'Pakeha' or 'European'.

 

I remember when I first came here 18 year ago, being somewhat shocked by the "All Blacks" team name.  It had a lot of connotations to me, but here it just refers to the colour of their jerseys. :001_smile:

 

Ruth in NZ

[Jasperstone]

Yes, and it was taught at our preschool programs as well - not for racial reasons, but because it gave them an excuse to show drawings of sheep in different colors and reinforce color learning.

 

Not everything is about being "oh so PC".

 

Likewise, the term "chalkboard" has been around since at least the early 1800s. I really think you're making a mountain out of a pretty non-existent molehill.

 

Well, that's what we have been told by the newspapers, and by the institutions here that come up with these things.

 

Just like marking with a red pen is considered too harsh.

 

I don't agree with it... I was just saying....

 

So, I'm not making a mountain out of a non-existent mole hill. Check your facts before trying to make me look like I'm making this stuff up.

 

 

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/baa-baa-what-sheep-children-sing-more-inclusive-ly/2422888/

 

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/racial-connotations-over-black-sheep-prompts-changes-to-baa-baa-black-sheep-at-victorian-kinders/story-fni0fit3-1227093091674?nk=10c7a8f6851caf5ac0ab451f5da44048

 

Racial connotations over black sheep prompts changes to Baa Baa Black Sheep at Victorian kinders

Parents, teachers and hundreds of Herald Sun readers said it’s political correctness gone mad.

 

 

 

 

http://newsweekly.com.au/article.php?id=3462

 

Let me just give you a few examples of the extremes of PC that our society already has to put up with:

 

• Santa was banned from saying "Ho ho ho", for fear of offending women.

 

• Sea World re-named fairy penguins "little penguins" to avoid offending the gay community (and even the gay community thought that was a bit over the top).

 

• A member of parliament's maiden speech is now called their "first speech".

 

• We have "chairperson" instead of chairman, and "female actor" instead of "actress".

 

• We shy away from saying "blackboard" and use "chalkboard" instead.

 

The list goes on...

 

[Tanaqui]

Well, that's what we have been told by the newspapers, and by the institutions here that come up with these things.

 

Just like marking with a red pen is considered too harsh.

 

I don't agree with it... I was just saying.... so, I'm not making a mountain out of a non-existent mole hill.

 

You know, I see those accusations in editorials all the time, but I've yet to see any cold quotes from administrators or teachers confirming this motivation. Sometimes - infrequently - with the red pen, but not with nursery rhymes. They're trolling for clicks, that's all.

[Tanaqui]

 

• Santa was banned from saying "Ho ho ho", for fear of offending women.

• Sea World re-named fairy penguins "little penguins" to avoid offending the gay community (and even the gay community thought that was a bit over the top).

• A member of parliament's maiden speech is now called their "first speech".

• We have "chairperson" instead of chairman, and "female actor" instead of "actress".

• We shy away from saying "blackboard" and use "chalkboard" instead.

 

 

I've already addressed "chalkboard" instead of "blackboard". The term has been in existence for over 200 years now. I strongly doubt there is any correlation to "political correctness". If all your examples are as poorly sourced - I'll be checking on them in a minute - then it just confirms my previous statement. It's spurious clickbait, with no evidence to support the accusation.

 

The only one of those I can say definitively is "yes, political correctness" is the decline of gendered nouns such as chairman and actress in favor of non-gendered alternatives like chairperson and simply actor. However, "gone mad" is really, really overreacting there - mountains out of molehills, tempests in teapots, pick your proverb.

[hornblower]

The ho ho ho thing is false http://www.snopes.com/politics/christmas/hohoho.asp

 

Calling actors actors and having chairpersons is just an evolution of language to be more inclusive. This fearmongering about "PC" is so 90's....

[Jasperstone]

You know, I see those accusations in editorials all the time, but I've yet to see any cold quotes from administrators or teachers confirming this motivation. Sometimes - infrequently - with the red pen, but not with nursery rhymes. They're trolling for clicks, that's all.

 

Well, it was enforced in my dd's former Kindergarten. And I have spoken to lots of teachers in the past that couldn't believe the amount of PC words that they had to replace with ones that weren't. They would be given a stern warning too, if they didn't comply.

 

Maybe, here in Oz it's a more extreme in PC?

[Jasperstone]

I've already addressed "chalkboard" instead of "blackboard". The term has been in existence for over 200 years now. I strongly doubt there is any correlation to "political correctness". If all your examples are as poorly sourced - I'll be checking on them in a minute - then it just confirms my previous statement. It's spurious clickbait, with no evidence to support the accusation.

 

The only one of those I can say definitively is "yes, political correctness" is the decline of gendered nouns such as chairman and actress in favor of non-gendered alternatives like chairperson and simply actor. However, "gone mad" is really, really overreacting there - mountains out of molehills, tempests in teapots, pick your proverb.

 

So, now I have written that article that I quoted from? That's my fault too now?

 

 

I just quickly Googled it to give you examples- as you were hinting that I'm making this stuff up. I didn't think I would be judged for 'poorly chosen articles'. Seriously.....

 

[Tanaqui]

I have now checked your links.

 

1. There is no evidence that this ever happened. Sadly, even otherwise reputable organizations such as the BBC sometimes fall for urban legends.

 

2. That link starts with a racist rant. Do I really have to read the whole thing? Yes, apparently, I do, but I'm noting already that the credibility drops every time I see a buzzword like "Judeo-Christian heritage". Ah, I skimmed. That's where you got your list from - but none of that is sourced! There is no evidence that any of this happened! (If I'm forced to do my own research on every item on that list, and then find out that none of them is true, I'm gonna be irked as heck.)

 

3. Only two schools are actually mentioned by name, which makes it hard to verify this story. One of them explicitly says they use the original lyrics. The other says that children can use "black sheep" if they like, but that they use a variety of sheep - and, notably, they don't mention race, which makes me suspect that my original explanation is the correct one in that case.

 

So far you're 0 for 3.

 

But I'm game, I'll google every item in that list separately - excepting "chairperson" and "actor", which is an absurd thing to get upset about, and "chalkboard", which I've already explained.

 

Has Santa been banned from saying Ho, Ho, Ho? No, no, no.

 

Has Seaworld capriciously changed the name of fairy penguins? Well, this is complicated. It looks like they're called fairy penguins in Australia but little penguins in New Zealand - kinda like how Australians say "capsicum" where Americans say "bell pepper", just a dialectical difference. However, that's moot, because a quick glance at the Seaworld Australia site shows that they refer to them there as "fairy penguins".

 

Are maiden speeches now called first speeches? Aside from the fact that this also seems a silly thing to get het up about, the evidence suggests that, in fact, the current fashion is to call them maiden speeches. Note that the URL simply says "maiden speeches", although each speech is listed as EITHER one or the other. I presume - there IS a limit to what I'm doing while the clock ticks down - that the specific terminology is chosen by the speechmaker.

 

I've addressed chalkboard and blackboard, and, again, I think chairperson and actor are fine, gender-neutral words (although I admit I cringe at the word "server". There has GOT to be a better term for waitress/waiter!)

 

I just quickly Googled it to give you examples- as you were hinting that I'm making this stuff up. I didn't think I would be judged for poorly chosen articles. Seriously.....

 

Well, this comment should show the level of research I consider reasonable to make. You don't have to agree with me on that point, but I'm not going to ignore verifiably false statements. I didn't think you were "making it up". I thought you had failed to do adequate research to support your statements.

 

Happy new year. I better go bang some pots.

 

 

[Jasperstone]

I have now checked your links.

 

1. There is no evidence that this ever happened. Sadly, even otherwise reputable organizations such as the BBC sometimes fall for urban legends.

 

2. That link starts with a racist rant. Do I really have to read the whole thing? Yes, apparently, I do, but I'm noting already that the credibility drops every time I see a buzzword like "Judeo-Christian heritage". Ah, I skimmed. That's where you got your list from - but none of that is sourced! There is no evidence that any of this happened! (If I'm forced to do my own research on every item on that list, and then find out that none of them is true, I'm gonna be irked as heck.)

 

3. Only two schools are actually mentioned by name, which makes it hard to verify this story. One of them explicitly says they use the original lyrics. The other says that children can use "black sheep" if they like, but that they use a variety of sheep - and, notably, they don't mention race, which makes me suspect that my original explanation is the correct one in that case.

 

So far you're 0 for 3.

 

But I'm game, I'll google every item in that list separately - excepting "chairperson" and "actor", which is an absurd thing to get upset about, and "chalkboard", which I've already explained.

 

Has Santa been banned from saying Ho, Ho, Ho? No, no, no.

 

Has Seaworld capriciously changed the name of fairy penguins? Well, this is complicated. It looks like they're called fairy penguins in Australia but little penguins in New Zealand - kinda like how Australians say "capsicum" where Americans say "bell pepper", just a dialectical difference. However, that's moot, because a quick glance at the Seaworld Australia site shows that they refer to them there as "fairy penguins".

 

Are maiden speeches now called first speeches? Aside from the fact that this also seems a silly thing to get het up about, the evidence suggests that, in fact, the current fashion is to call them maiden speeches. Note that the URL simply says "maiden speeches", although each speech is listed as EITHER one or the other. I presume - there IS a limit to what I'm doing while the clock ticks down - that the specific terminology is chosen by the speechmaker.

 

I've addressed chalkboard and blackboard, and, again, I think chairperson and actor are fine, gender-neutral words (although I admit I cringe at the word "server". There has GOT to be a better term for waitress/waiter!)

 

 

Well, this comment should show the level of research I consider reasonable to make - especially if you intend to couple that with a comment that the person you're talking to did NOT do their research.

 

Like I said-

 

Regardless, if it's correct, or not... people here are swapping words, as they see them as being "politically incorrect". As, the media tells us that.

 

And, I happen to live near Seaworld (5 mins away), and they did change it! So, your research is false too. :001_tt2:

 

I'm done.... go on arguing with someone that cares. :001_rolleyes:

[Tanaqui]

And I happen to live near Seaworld, and they did change it!

 

Well, they failed to change it on their website. If they did change it on location, neither of us knows why they did that. Maybe they have a lot of Kiwi visitors? I'll do some more research and *edit this post* if I find more information.

 

Regardless, if it's correct, or not... people here are swapping words, as they see them as being "politically incorrect".

 

So you say. However, if the articles and comments therein can be taken as representative, people are mostly complaining about other people doing that, while not doing it themselves.

[SKL]

I've heard Negro in some countries, Black in others.

 

My black friends in the USA prefer "black" over "African American" (if a distinction over race/color must be made).

 

"African American" was a term made up for PC reasons, and it apparently wasn't well thought through.  It's kind of embarrassing that now US people are at a loss when they come across a black person who doesn't identify as African, American, or both.

[Melissa in Australia]

I personally have never called someone black. There are not so many "black people in Australia, apart from the indigenous population. I refer to them as Koorie or Aboriginal and in the  area where I live they are not that dark skinned at all. The very few others have always been referred to  country there are form - say South African, or Sudanese

[Jasperstone]

Well, they failed to change it on their website. If they did change it on location, neither of us knows why they did that. Maybe they have a lot of Kiwi visitors? I'll do some more research and *edit this post* if I find more information.

 

 

So you say. However, if the articles and comments therein can be taken as representative, people are mostly complaining about other people doing that, while not doing it themselves.

 

When I'm at Seaworld next, I'll try and remember to take a photo for you.

 

Like I said- I have had first hand experience with it being implemented in institutions. But I'm sure my word for that is moot to you.

[Daria]

African-American is a cultural designation.  It refers to the modern day descendants of people brought to the US from Africa as slaves.  Most people who would be referred to as African-American are the direct descendants of those slaves, although there are some people who are descendant from more recent immigrants and have assimilated to this group.  

 

Black is a designation based on race.  It refers to someone's skin color, the texture of their skin, and the part of the world that their biological ancestors came from.

 

In the US, and around the world, there are many ethnic groups that are composed of black people.  For example, in my city there are many recent immigrants from Ethiopia.  They keep many of their cultural habits, and are culturally distinct from African-Americans.  They generally raise their child bilingual, name their children Ethiopian names, and may attend Ethiopian Orthodox churches.  It wouldn't be appropriate to call them African-American because they aren't members of that ethnic group.  Similarly, there are cultural groups in this country who trace their roots to the Caribbean.  Dominicans or Dominican Americans are another cultural group that is distinct from African-Americans.

 

If I'm referring to a cultural practice, like diet, or a wedding ritual, or vernacular speech, it makes sense to use a cultural designation.  I wouldn't say, for example, that doro wat or jerk chicken were "black foods", because foods are associated with culture not race.  So, I'd describe them as Ethiopian or Jamaican food.  Similarly, I wouldn't say that jumping the broom is a black wedding tradition, because it's associated with one specific cultural group.  I'd say it's an African American tradition.  

 

On the other hand, if I'm talking about a racial characteristic, I use the word black.  For example, my son, like many black people, has beautiful dark tightly coiled hair that can be very dry.  When I go to CVS to buy hair products for him, I look for products that are designed for black hair.  These products would work equally well on someone's hair from Trinidad or Nigeria.  They are not exclusive for African-Americans, so I wouldn't ask for African-American hair products.  

 

Another way to think of it is that I'd use the word black in circumstances in which I'd describe myself as white.  For example, if I was purchasing  hair care products for myself, I'd look for products for white people.  If I was describing myself to someone I was expecting to meet in public, i'd say that I'm white with blonde hair. On the other hand, if I were talking about a specific cultural practice, I wouldn't label that practice as "white".  I wouldn't say "Giovanni's family enjoys a traditional white feast of the seven fishes on Christmas Eve", I'd say "Giovanni's family enjoys a traditional Italian feast of the seven fishes on Christmas Eve".  I wouldn't say "white children celebrate their B'nai Mitzvah when they turn 13"  I'd say "Jewish children . . . "  

[Tanaqui]

When I'm at Seaworld next, I'll try and remember to take a photo for you.

 

Like I said- I have had first hand experience with it being implemented. But I'm sure my word for that is moot to you.

 

I just emailed them and asked, so we'll have an answer shortly :)

 

(Well, assuming they answer!)

 

Again, even if they changed the name, that doesn't mean they did it for reasons of political correctness.

 

 

Like I said- I have had first hand experience with it being implemented. But I'm sure my word for that is moot to you.

 

That may be the case. I'm curious, though, why you didn't give any solid examples. You said "this happens, teachers tell me all these words they avoid", but you didn't give any firm examples of words teachers have said they get reprimanded if they use. The articles you posted were demonstrably false. You understand I can't agree with your point of view without any evidence, right?

 

I mean, several years ago my kiddo came up to me and said her teacher hated her, and she knew this because that teacher had decided not to give her a sticker for finishing her work early. I could have believed kiddo unquestioningly, but it seemed better to verify this story - and good thing I did! Her teacher had simply run out of stickers that day!

 

You're not my kid. I don't even know you. I'm going to verify what you say before running with it, especially if it seems improbable. I expect you do the same with me if I say something you consider unlikely.

[Jasperstone]

I just emailed them and asked, so we'll have an answer shortly :)

 

(Well, assuming they answer!)

 

Again, even if they changed the name, that doesn't mean they did it for reasons of political correctness.

 

 

 

That may be the case. I'm curious, though, why you didn't give any solid examples. You said "this happens, teachers tell me all these words they avoid", but you didn't give any firm examples of words teachers have said they get reprimanded if they use. The articles you posted were demonstrably false. You understand I can't agree with your point of view without any evidence, right?

 

I mean, several years ago my kiddo came up to me and said her teacher hated her, and she knew this because that teacher had decided not to give her a sticker for finishing her work early. I could have believed kiddo unquestioningly, but it seemed better to verify this story - and good thing I did! Her teacher had simply run out of stickers that day!

 

You're not my kid. I don't even know you. I'm going to verify what you say before running with it, especially if it seems improbable. I expect you do the same with me if I say something you consider unlikely.

 

I don't think you get my point- Regardless, if it's is PC, or not. The people here, are going by what the newspapers tell them, and applying it.

 

[Tanaqui]

I don't think you get my point- Regardless if it's is PC or not, the people here are going by what the newspapers tell them, and applying it.

 

The newspapers are telling them to be more PC? I didn't see that from the links you posted - and I didn't see any evidence that they're actually doing that either.

 

All I can do is address specific things you said. You said - repeatedly - that the baa baa "not-just-black" sheep was due to political correctness. I showed that there's no evidence of that. I don't know how many schools are doing other versions of it, or how many individuals are uncomfortable with it, I'm just showing that there's no evidence of a huge drive to ban it because of racism.

 

You said that Santa has been banned from saying ho, ho, ho. I showed that story to be false. Maybe some individual isn't saying it when dressing up at the yearly Christmas party, maybe lots of individuals aren't saying it, but is that what you're asserting? That you and everybody you know has decided to avoid that phrase?

 

You said that Seaworld a. changed the name of the penguin exhibit and b. did it for reasons of political correctness. We're waiting on a response for that. Are you saying that most people are no longer calling them fairy penguins?

 

You say that people are mindlessly following the media. What, exactly, is the media telling them to do? What words is the media telling them to avoid? If this is true, I should be able to find some evidence in Australian National Corpus of the trends, if not the motivations, but I need to have specifics first.

 

[Jasperstone]

The newspapers are telling them to be more PC? I didn't see that from the links you posted - and I didn't see any evidence that they're actually doing that either.

 

All I can do is address specific things you said. You said - repeatedly - that the baa baa "not-just-black" sheep was due to political correctness. I showed that there's no evidence of that. I don't know how many schools are doing other versions of it, or how many individuals are uncomfortable with it, I'm just showing that there's no evidence of a huge drive to ban it because of racism.

 

You said that Santa has been banned from saying ho, ho, ho. I showed that story to be false. Maybe some individual isn't saying it when dressing up at the yearly Christmas party, maybe lots of individuals aren't saying it, but is that what you're asserting? That you and everybody you know has decided to avoid that phrase?

 

You said that Seaworld a. changed the name of the penguin exhibit and b. did it for reasons of political correctness. We're waiting on a response for that. Are you saying that most people are no longer calling them fairy penguins?

 

You say that people are mindlessly following the media. What, exactly, is the media telling them to do? What words is the media telling them to avoid? If this is true, I should be able to find some evidence in Australian National Corpus of the trends, if not the motivations, but I need to have specifics first.

 

 

 

Are these to your liking-

 

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/569875/20141017/baa-black-sheep-banned-nursery-rhymes-children.htm#.VJ7f7slpWUR

 

 

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/racist-baa-baa-black-sheep-put-out-to-pasture/story-e6frfku0-1226012652386

 

I live in Queensland, so it's possible that not the whole of Australia went with it.

 

 

 

You said that Santa has been banned from saying ho, ho, ho. I showed that story to be false. Maybe some individual isn't saying it when dressing up at the yearly Christmas party, maybe lots of individuals aren't saying it, but is that what you're asserting? That you and everybody you know has decided to avoid that phrase?

 

 

I did not!

 

the article I linked said it, not me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

ETA:

 

You aren't going to accept this link, but it shows that it made debates about how far PC is going. It was in our local newspaper for a time-

 

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/archive/index.php/t-250417.html

 

 

THEME park bosses have re-named their colony of fairy penguins amid fears they could upset the gay community.

Managers at Sea World, on the Gold Coast, are now calling the species "little penguins" in case associations with the word "fairy" offend visitors to the park.

 

"We didn't have any complaints about the name of the penguins, but someone thought they could be seen as offensive so we decided to change it to little penguin instead," a Sea World spokeswoman said. "We just didn't want to upset the gay community. The new name is more politically correct."

 

However, Queensland's gay community and other zoos which keep fairy penguins described the name change as ridiculous and unnecessary.

 

Kamahl Fox, chairman of gay support group the Gold Coast Breakers, said: "I wouldn't be upset by fairy penguins at all.

 

"I don't think our community is that sensitive about those things. If the penguins were called poofter penguins or something more direct then it might be a problem, but I don't see the name fairy penguin as a mickey-take at all."

 

Advertisement:

A spokesman for Brisbane's Gay Dads group said the name change took political correctness to the extreme.

 

"People have been going to see fairy penguins for years and that shouldn't have to change," he said. "The word fairy hasn't been offensive to gay people for about 30 years -- it's just not an issue."

 

Nerida Ackerman, spokeswoman for gay, lesbian and bisexual 12 to 18-year-olds at Brisbane's Open Door Youth Service, said: "The young people here have grown up knowing these birds as fairy penguins and they think it's silly and a bit of a shame that the name has been changed."

 

Other zoos said they had no plans to rename their penguins.

 

"I've never heard of anyone changing the name of a species because of gay reasons before," a spokeswoman for Sydney's Taronga Zoo said. "I don't understand why anyone would change the name fairy penguins because of that association."

 

Adelaide Zoo's penguin keeper Lauren Ellis said: "We've always called them fairy penguins and are not about to change that."

 

But Phillip Island Nature Park in Victoria also used to call the birds fairy penguins but now refers to them as little penguins. A spokesman said the name was changed as little penguin is thought to be "a more accurate translation of their scientific name, eudyptula minor."

 

Fairy penguins are only found in the southern hemisphere preferring the warmer waters along the shores of southern Australia and New Zealand.

 

I can't believe this, it's way over the top and i believe highlights just how ridiculous political correctness is becoming. Have you noticed anything way over the top, like this, recently?

 

 

 

Me-

 

I thought I saw the change in the sign years ago, as I vaguely remember saying something to my dc about it.

I will take back about them changing it permanently though, as I got that info. from the local newspaper at the time. They were making such hoopla about it. And it seems that the gay community doesn't mind the term at all. They might have even come to their senses!

 

 

 

 

[Jasperstone]

 

You say that people are mindlessly following the media. What, exactly, is the media telling them to do? What words is the media telling them to avoid? If this is true, I should be able to find some evidence in Australian National Corpus of the trends, if not the motivations, but I need to have specifics first.

 

 

Like I said- the Kindy that my dd did.

 

Gee, I wonder when you have a normal conversation with someone do you always demand such evidence?

 

 

 

ETA:

 

I just don't like how you are trying to make me look like I'm the one instigating this propaganda. I can only go by my experience to what others are implementing to the *perceived* PC that's coming down from the mainstream media etc...

[Tanaqui]

 

I did not!

 

the article I linked said it, not me.

 

Which you quoted. I don't know about you, but when I link to an article and then quote it without a disclaimer, that usually means I think it is insightful and factually accurate.

 

That article is reposted information - they didn't even do their own reporting, they just reported on what other sites had already reported on. The baa baa black sheep is the same story I already refuted. Most of their "examples" are totally unsourced - the schools aren't named, so there is no way to verify that they even exist, much less that they took the actions claimed. And note weasel words - the "unnamed" Montessori has "reportedly" done this. Reportedly? They didn't even locate the school and check?

 

The Twinkle Twinkle story, notably, appears primarly on The Telegraph and the Daily Mail. This does not inspire confidence. They DO name a specific center, so Monday I'll see if I care enough to make a long distance call to ask them. I probably don't - frankly, I wonder what sort of daycare doesn't have an email.

 

Like I said- the Kindy that my dd did.

 

Gee, I wonder when you have a normal conversation with someone do you always demand such evidence?

 

 

And like *I* said, our preschool programs did the same thing, but nobody ever claimed it was anything other than a fun way to stretch out storytime and add some color learning to the day. There are no other words your kindergarten has banned in the name of political correctness? It is strictly "black sheep" and they have confirmed for you that this is the sole reason?

 

And yes, in daily life I do ask that people not make sweeping statements without evidence. What's the alternative? Accept anything people tell me?

 

Edit: Your second link is the same story I already refuted. No matter how many links you post, it'll still be the same story, and I'll still have already refuted it. It doesn't even say what you claim it says either - it says that some students and some teachers at a school do this (but doesn't name a specific reason) but that others don't. All named adults say they think it's silly to be done on PC grounds.

 

Honestly, we're taking up the entire thread. That's just silly. If you have a better link - PM me!