S/o: Family Research Council (FRC).

[Tanaqui]

No, Joanne, I am not. I refuse to put homosexual acts in the same category as being black. There is no sin in being of any ethnic background. And yes, I stand by my belief that homosexual acts are sins just like all the other things listed. I do not agree with your understanding of being gay at all. There are a lot of other things that you believe according to psychology that I don't agree with either.

 

 

What acts would those be? Snuggling on the couch with a bowl of popcorn? Visiting your spouse in the hospital? Hugging them when their parents die? Waiting in the rain at the bus stop so you can go to parent teacher night together? Putting together a puzzle after Christmas?

 

[Cindy in FL.]

Come now, don't be obtuse.

 

What acts would those be? Snuggling on the couch with a bowl of popcorn? Visiting your spouse in the hospital? Hugging them when their parents die? Waiting in the rain at the bus stop so you can go to parent teacher night together? Putting together a puzzle after Christmas?

 

[Slartibartfast]

No one did that.  I certainly didn't.

Michelle Duggar did.

 

http://www.fayettevilleflyer.com/2014/08/18/michelle-duggar-robocall-tries-to-rally-opposition-to-fayettevilles-anti-discrimination-proposal/

 

This link has a recording where she does compare it to pedophilia.

[Tanaqui]

No, really, Cindy, I have no idea what you're talking about. Decorating a Christmas tree? Hiding the afikomen?

[LucyStoner]

Come now, don't be obtuse.

 

 

Well, this raises a point.

 

Lots of marriages have little or even no sex. Are you ok with abstinent gay couples? Marriage isn't only about sex. If people choose to raise a family and love each other, why is it anyone's business if what goes on behind closed doors is a sin? Personally I try to avoid thinking about what my brother and his husband have going on in the bedroom and I am sure he returns that towards me. Because. Siblings. So not my business.

 

Plenty of people might think, according to their scriptures and dearly held foundational religious belief that it is sinful or wrong that in my marriage I do not submit or obey my husband. We are both feminists and do not adhere to complementarianism or patriarchy. Should they have the right to block us from marrying or outlaw our marriage because they think my husband and I commit sinful acts? Huh what does the sin of feminism look like? Maybe me forgetting for three weeks straight to mend his slacks? Him following my lead about investment decisions? I dunno. But I am sure there are sinful acts to someone here somewhere. Maybe that when he asked for pecan pie for Thanksgiving I said sure as long as you stay up and mix that syrup. Pie-wife-sin.

[Rosie_0801]

 And yes, I stand by my belief that homosexual acts are sins just like all the other things listed. 

 

There are no homosexual acts. They do the same things other straight people also do. (Since I know you are talking about behind closed door methods of endorphin production.) 

 

So, it must really be the gay people who are the sin, not any of their actions, no? Or you have an imagination which extends beyond the ability of humans to enact.

[Frances]

No, Joanne, I am not. I refuse to put homosexual acts in the same category as being black. There is no sin in being of any ethnic background. And yes, I stand by my belief that homosexual acts are sins just like all the other things listed. I do not agree with your understanding of being gay at all. There are a lot of other things that you believe according to psychology that I don't agree with either.

 

Do you believe that simply being homosexual is a sin or it's only sinful if you act on it? Do you believe people choose to be homosexual or heterosexual or bisexual or are born that way?

[Cindy in FL.]

Sexual activity between people of the same sex is wrong. That is what I believe. I also believe that some sexual activity between people of the opposite sex is wrong. Jesus said that for this reason a man will leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife. Not ambiguous at all.

 

There are no homosexual acts. They do the same things other straight people also do. (Since I know you are talking about behind closed door methods of endorphin production.)

 

So, it must really be the gay people who are the sin, not any of their actions, no? Or you have an imagination which extends beyond the ability of humans to enact.

[Cindy in FL.]

No, I think that the spousal relationship (with or without sex) should be heterosexual. I definitely don't think marriage is all about sex.

 

I am not patriarchal and do not believe that position to be Biblical. I think any man who does not view his wife as an equal and solicit her advice and counsel is not very wise. Sometimes my dh is the one whose decision we go with and sometimes it is mine. No one gets to trample the other under foot because he happens to have the right anatomy!

 

Well, this raises a point.

 

Lots of marriages have little or even no sex. Are you ok with abstinent gay couples? Marriage isn't only about sex. If people choose to raise a family and love each other, why is it anyone's business if what goes on behind closed doors is a sin? Personally I try to avoid thinking about what my brother and his husband have going on in the bedroom and I am sure he returns that towards me. Because. Siblings. So not my business.

 

Plenty of people might think, according to their scriptures and dearly held foundational religious belief that it is sinful or wrong that in my marriage I do not submit or obey my husband. We are both feminists and do not adhere to complementarianism or patriarchy. Should they have the right to block us from marrying or outlaw our marriage because they think my husband and I commit sinful acts? Huh what does the sin of feminism look like? Maybe me forgetting for three weeks straight to mend his slacks? Him following my lead about investment decisions? I dunno. But I am sure there are sinful acts to someone here somewhere. Maybe that when he asked for pecan pie for Thanksgiving I said sure as long as you stay up and mix that syrup. Pie-wife-sin.

[Rosie_0801]

Sexual activity between people of the same sex is wrong. That is what I believe. I also believe that some sexual activity between people of the opposite sex is wrong. Jesus said that for this reason a man will leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife. Not ambiguous at all.

 

 

Acknowledged.

[TranquilMind]

And this live and let live policy is exactly what gay families want as well. Just the opportunity to go about their daily lives without discrimination. 

 

The end of life issue resonates with me. My dad was recently in and out of the hospital for a month and a half, including a final 2 1/2 week stay including surgery. My mom and I were there every day I wasn't in school (she doesn't drive). At the beginning there were some decisions that needed to be made and he was not aware enough to give consent. They deferred to the wife, my mother. Imagine having a long term partner who could not be a spouse because of laws. I don't know how the medical laws work in regard to emergent care and a partner who is not a spouse, but at times minutes count and if they have to spend time to figure out who has the right to give consent, it adds a layer of chaos. 

 

My dad also had to make a life or death decision on surgery. My mom and I ended up having to influence him toward surgery (otherwise he'd be dead). What if a partner was not given the same right to influence? There were a few times they (doctors and nurses) questioned who I was before speaking and my dad had to acknowledge that consent. 

 

I've read the horror stories like listed above about life partners not being able to be that support an influence because of intruding family. 

 

Part of requesting their marriages be allowed is not to shove the idea of traditional marriage down the throats of people who don't agree with it, it's about being able to be afforded the same rights as any other committed and married couple, like end of life issues. 

This problem of who gets to make decisions is easily resolved with a Health Care Power of Attorney. 

[TranquilMind]

Guilt, shame, and the particular things that trouble one's conscience are learned cultural constructs. What is true and right are also taught. By religion, by parents, by peers. What is written on a child's heart, when the words amount to condemnation of that child's identity or sexuality (or race or language or...) As unworthy, lesser, or inherently sinful, then yes, that leads to shame and despair, which can lead to depression and suicide.

 

If you honestly believe God writes messages of hate for who a child is on a child's heart, and causes the suffering and pain that result, well, that's no God I'd want anything to do with.

Why are you making the incomprehensible connection that one who feels guilt and shame automatically must have been influenced "by messages of hate"?  Maybe he feels guilt and shame because he knows he is doing something wrong?

 

I know that is the only time I ever feel guilt or shame, is if I am guilty! 

I really do not understand this illogical reasoning here. 

[TranquilMind]

OK, this is my favorite line of a long and immensely worthwhile thread.   :lol:

I have never had a clue what the Elf on the Shelf thing was all about...

[TranquilMind]

FWIW, I do not believe that God writes messages of hate on anyone's heart.  Shame, despair, depression and suicide are not in God's plan for anyone's life ever.

 

I absolutely 100% agree.  That is never God's plan for anyone's life. 

[Tanaqui]

How can you think you're doing something wrong if you're not hurting somebody UNLESS people have told you it's a wrong thing to do and you should be ashamed and feel guilty?

 

Nevermind that many gay individuals kill themselves over these feelings without ever one having acted on them.

[TranquilMind]

Being gay isn't a choice.  And "sin" is a man-made construct.  There's no buck to pass.

 

In your opinion. 

[TranquilMind]

You are completely wrong here. She knows it all. It hasn't been hidden from her in any way. Just because that is not the topic of conversation whenever we get together doesn't mean it hasn't been discussed. You assume that people with widely differing viewpoints can't enjoy a relationship.

 

I never understand why some people assume this?  It has always confused me.  I have friends and acquaintances of very wide perspectives, and I love them all, even though we don't agree on EVERY SINGLE THING.  Who are these people, who will only befriend those who have the "right" politically-acceptable beliefs? 

[TranquilMind]

Those....are AMAZING pies.  What perfect meringue. 

Them be fighting words.



(Yes, I own the rights to the picture, the camera phone that took it, the pies and the freezer those pies are sitting on because we ran out of counter space and my pie cabinet is in storage while we live in an apartment. Yes, a whole cabinet for pie for keeping it outside at the proper temps but unmolested by small animals. Like a pie altar).

 

[Laura Corin]

Lots of marriages have little or even no sex. Are you ok with abstinent gay couples? Marriage isn't only about sex. If people choose to raise a family and love each other, why is it anyone's business if what goes on behind closed doors is a sin? 

 

This is an interesting one.  The Church of England has got its knickers in a twist about Gay clergy.  Currently they are meant to be abstinent.  In the case of The Reverend Richard Coles (who has given interviews on the subject) this means that he still lives with his civil partner (who is also a vicar), but they do not have sex any more.  

 

L

[Mrs Mungo]

Why are you making the incomprehensible connection that one who feels guilt and shame automatically must have been influenced "by messages of hate"?  Maybe he feels guilt and shame because he knows he is doing something wrong?

 

I know that is the only time I ever feel guilt or shame, is if I am guilty! 

I really do not understand this illogical reasoning here.

Except people have *already explained* in this thread how they have been made to feel shame and guilt by other Christians over instances where they carried no ACTUAL guilt, where they had done nothing wrong, even to the point of being suicidal. Saying that nobody feels shame or guilt unless they have done something wrong is completely incorrect.

[Cindy in FL.]

Although I acknowledge the benefits of the internet, I really wish that we could have some of these discussions face to face. Too much of the humanity gets lost when you are not looking the other person in the eye. Seeing someone's expressions, body language, hurt, etc. would be so helpful. I like to think that we might laugh and cry together. I know that I wept over these recent threads last night when I couldn't sleep, and I want to say that I have no animosity or ill will toward anyone involved.

[TranquilMind]

Except people have *already explained* in this thread how they have been made to feel shame and guilt by other Christians over instances where they carried no ACTUAL guilt, where they had done nothing wrong, even to the point of being suicidal. Saying that nobody feels shame or guilt unless they have done something wrong is completely incorrect.

Well, this thread is exceedingly long, so perhaps I missed those posts.  I didn't read them all.

 

What Christian feels guilt and shame over what situation that was not actually biblically proscribed?  I guess I don't get that.    I don't do guilt...unless I'm guilty.  Then I know it, and don't try to blame others for feeling it.  I've never been one to blame others for MY feelings.  If I'm guilty, I will know it, and if I'm wrong about those feelings I will eventually know that too.  That's what the "washing of the water of the Word" does. 

[Joker]

In your opinion. 

 

I have a hard time understanding those who claim being gay is a choice. I am straight and couldn't force myself to love a female the way I do my dh. There's just no way. So, it's not difficult at all to realize those who identify as gay or bi aren't choosing to do so. It's just the way they are. It's also not difficult to realize they aren't choosing to like the same sex when you actually talk to some who have agonized for years and tried to be different. It's heartbreaking.

[*Lulu*]

But are they feeling guilt and shame because it is being heaped upon them by others or because they innately know that being gay is shameful?

I was repeatedly raped in the church I grew up in. I felt and feel tremendous amounts of guilt and shame about this and have been at the brink of suicide more than once.

Are my feelings of guilt and shame a result of me knowing that what happened was shameful or a result of being told I was defiled/tainted, a temptress and a disappointment to God?

  

Except people have *already explained* in this thread how they have been made to feel shame and guilt by other Christians over instances where they carried no ACTUAL guilt, where they had done nothing wrong, even to the point of being suicidal. Saying that nobody feels shame or guilt unless they have done something wrong is completely incorrect.

  

Well, this thread is exceedingly long, so perhaps I missed those posts.  I didn't read them all.

 

What Christian feels guilt and shame over what situation that was not actually biblically proscribed?  I guess I don't get that.    I don't do guilt...unless I'm guilty.  Then I know it, and don't try to blame others for feeling it.  I've never been one to blame others for MY feelings.  If I'm guilty, I will know it, and if I'm wrong about those feelings I will eventually know that too.  That's what the "washing of the water of the Word" does.

 

I do believe that the above is one example.

[Joker]

Well, this thread is exceedingly long, so perhaps I missed those posts.  I didn't read them all.

 

What Christian feels guilt and shame over what situation that was not actually biblically proscribed?  I guess I don't get that.    I don't do guilt...unless I'm guilty.  Then I know it, and don't try to blame others for feeling it.  I've never been one to blame others for MY feelings.  If I'm guilty, I will know it, and if I'm wrong about those feelings I will eventually know that too.  That's what the "washing of the water of the Word" does. 

 

I'm jealous. I'm a Christian and I've felt guilt several times when I had done nothing wrong. I felt guilt over being sexually abused as a child but I did nothing wrong. I feel guilt right now because my oldest dd is suffering from anxiety and depression but I've done nothing wrong. Her therapist tells me often that I have done nothing wrong and there is absolutely nothing I could have done to change things for her. So, it's great that you "don't do" guilt, but I think there are plenty of others who are made to or feel it even when they shouldn't.

[TranquilMind]

I'm jealous. I'm a Christian and I've felt guilt several times when I had done nothing wrong. I felt guilt over being sexually abused as a child but I did nothing wrong. I feel guilt right now because my oldest dd is suffering from anxiety and depression but I've done nothing wrong. Her therapist tells me often that I have done nothing wrong and there is absolutely nothing I could have done to change things for her. So, it's great that you "don't do" guilt, but I think there are plenty of others who are made to or feel it even when they shouldn't.

Well, I decided long ago that it was unproductive.  Also, God showed me that it wasn't my fault when (certain big event) happened, and I had thought it was. So I got over it.

 

For Freedom, Christ has set us free; do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.   It isn't just for me - it's for you too!  (And heck no, abuse as a child is never your fault!).

[Ravin]

What I said was that God writes His law on our hearts. Remember the 10 Commandments given to Moses on the stone tablets on Mt. Sinai? The law. Not hate.

 

 

Which of the ten commandments was "thou shalt not be gay or transgender" again?

[Veritaserum]

My daughter didn't choose her sexual orientation just as I didn't choose mine and you didn't choose yours. The difference is that she constantly hears messages vilifying an ingrained, inherent part of her identity while I and other heterosexual people do not. We can live our lives without thinking much about our sexual orientation because no one questions it, suggests we shouldn't have equal rights, or harasses/teases/damns us for being straight.

[LucyStoner]

I am not patriarchal and do not believe that position to be Biblical. I think any man who does not view his wife as an equal and solicit her advice and counsel is not very wise. Sometimes my dh is the one whose decision we go with and sometimes it is mine. No one gets to trample the other under foot because he happens to have the right anatomy!

 

 

You don't. Others do. It's a mighty good thing that they don't get to deprive you and me our civil rights on the basis of their religious beliefs. At one time they did and coverture was the law of the land.

 

I really don't see why some people can't see the truth in this when it comes to using THEIR religious beliefs to deprive others of their civil rights. People who think like you have used the government to deprive gay people of everything from their liberty to the right to join their life with whom they love. It's not ok. It's never ok. Our religious beliefs can not dictate the laws that other people must live within.

[*Lulu*]

Well, I decided long ago that it was unproductive. Also, God showed me that it wasn't my fault when (certain big event) happened, and I had thought it was. So I got over it.

 

For Freedom, Christ has set us free; do not submit again to a yoke of slavery. It isn't just for me - it's for you too! (And heck no, abuse as a child is never your fault!).

I am glad you "got over it".

 

Whatever "it" was might not have been so easily "gotten over" if the religious community you identified with was telling you that you in fact did bear guilt about "it".

 

I don't know that you meant the above to be dismissive, but it is coming off as such.

[LucyStoner]

Evangelical Christians have a higher rate of divorce and remarriage than many other religious groups and also higher than athiests. No one can argue that the Bible doesn't lay out that divorce and adultery is a sin. Yet I see all of these defending marriage groups trying to bar gays from marriage. I don't see very many of them trying to change the divorce laws to comply with the Bible and statistically many of them are themselves in 2nd or 5th marriages. I don't see them trying to implement civil punishments for adultery. It's that kind of thing that causes me to discount how much of their efforts are really about defending marriage as an institution. Honestly a good number of them are more anti-homosexual than they are pro-Biblical marriage.

[Mrs Mungo]

Evangelical Christians have a higher rate of divorce and remarriage than many other religious groups and also higher than athiests. No one can argue that the Bible doesn't lay out that divorce and adultry is a sin. Yet I see all of these defending marriage groups trying to bar gays from marriage. I don't see very many of them trying to change the divorce laws to comply with the Bible and statistically many of them are themselves in 2nd or 5th marriages. I don't see them trying to implement civil punishments for adultry. It's that kind of thing that causes me to discount how much of their efforts are really about defending marriage as an institution. Honestly a good number of them are more anti-homosexual than they are pro-Biblical marriage.

Agreed. Liking wasn't enough.

[Mergath]

Sexual activity between people of the same sex is wrong. That is what I believe. I also believe that some sexual activity between people of the opposite sex is wrong. Jesus said that for this reason a man will leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife. Not ambiguous at all.

 

 

Yes, Jesus said that.  In reference to divorce, I believe.  He didn't say a woman can't cleave to another woman, or that a man can't cleave to another man.

[Ravin]

Why are you making the incomprehensible connection that one who feels guilt and shame automatically must have been influenced "by messages of hate"? Maybe he feels guilt and shame because he knows he is doing something wrong?

 

I know that is the only time I ever feel guilt or shame, is if I am guilty!

I really do not understand this illogical reasoning here.

Because what you know you were taught. You did not emerge from your mother's womb with a fully developed sense of right and wrong.

[Liz CA]

All I wanted to add is that I am sooo impressed this thread went to 700 something replies without getting locked.  :)

[Frances]

Why are you making the incomprehensible connection that one who feels guilt and shame automatically must have been influenced "by messages of hate"?  Maybe he feels guilt and shame because he knows he is doing something wrong?

 

I know that is the only time I ever feel guilt or shame, is if I am guilty! 

I really do not understand this illogical reasoning here. 

 

Imagine if you will for a moment a young adolescent boy coming of age in a very conservative, fundamentalist Christian family and community. All of his life he has heard very negative messages about homosexuals. He has heard them called terrible names, been told they are going straight to hell, are ruining the sanctity of marriage, are an abomination to the Lord, etc. As far as he knows, he has never actually met a homosexual. He thinks that everyone he knows and interacts with on a daily basis is heterosexual.

 

Now, he is starting to have the normal sexual feelings that go with his age. And try imagine what he must feel when his feelings and fantasies are not about girls, but about boys. Do you think he might feel guilt and shame and fear, even though he has not actually committed any homosexual acts?

[TranquilMind]

Evangelical Christians have a higher rate of divorce and remarriage than many other religious groups and also higher than athiests. No one can argue that the Bible doesn't lay out that divorce and adultry is a sin. Yet I see all of these defending marriage groups trying to bar gays from marriage. I don't see very many of them trying to change the divorce laws to comply with the Bible and statistically many of them are themselves in 2nd or 5th marriages. I don't see them trying to implement civil punishments for adultry. It's that kind of thing that causes me to discount how much of their efforts are really about defending marriage as an institution. Honestly a good number of them are more anti-homosexual than they are pro-Biblical marriage.

I agree with you that this is a hypocritical stance, to be pro-divorce (excluding biblical exceptions) and sequential marriages,  and yet against other forms of biblically proscribed sexual behavior. 

[DragonFaerie]

My brother is an editor for TV and film out in LA.  When this man came to him with his story, Andy could not help but be moved.  He helped him put together this video.  If this doesn't explain the need for equality, I don't know what would. 

.

[Cindy in FL.]

People have to be married before they can get divorced. A man leaves his mother and father and cleaves to his wife in marriage. There is never a reference to anything but men and women being united in any kind of marital bond in the Bible.

 

Yes, Jesus said that. In reference to divorce, I believe. He didn't say a woman can't cleave to another woman, or that a man can't cleave to another man.

[Tanaqui]

There is never a reference to anything but men and women being united in any kind of marital bond in the Bible.

 

There are multiple references to polygamy in the Bible. No references to men and women flying in planes. A verse which discusses the joys of dashing infant heads against the rocks. No references to clothing being joined by buttons. The Bible's kinda a mixed bag.

 

[TranquilMind]

Because what you know you were taught. You did not emerge from your mother's womb with a fully developed sense of right and wrong.

No, God's Word corrected some of what I was taught.  I was taught some inaccurate things earlier on.  

[*Lulu*]

No, God's Word corrected some of what I was taught. I was taught some inaccurate things earlier on.

That is nice.

 

God's word, little "w", the Bible, was used to shame me about my abuse.

 

God's Word, big "W", Christ, is why I have not walked away from Christianity.

[texasmama]

That is nice.

 

God's word, little "w", the Bible, was used to shame me about my abuse.

 

God's Word, big "W", Christ, is why I have not walked away from Christianity.

 

(((hugs)))

 

[Pam in CT]

My brother is an editor for TV and film out in LA.  When this man came to him with his story, Andy could not help but be moved.  He helped him put together this video.  If this doesn't explain the need for equality, I don't know what would.  It Could Happen to You.

 

That is heartbreaking.  

[Ravin]

No, God's Word corrected some of what I was taught.  I was taught some inaccurate things earlier on.  

 

But you were also taught those things that you now understand to be God's word. That you consider them to have a special, sacred origin doesn't change that you learned them.

[DragonFaerie]

That is heartbreaking.  

 

It really is.  Andy said he could hear the man's absolute devastation in his voice when they first spoke on the phone.   And if this story doesn't put a very real, human face on the problem, I don't know what would.

[TranquilMind]

That is nice.

 

God's word, little "w", the Bible, was used to shame me about my abuse.

 

God's Word, big "W", Christ, is why I have not walked away from Christianity.

PEOPLE shamed you for the abuse, misusing God's word/scriptures (I won't call it "yours" because you don't want it ,didn't ask for it, and should not carry the scars of it).  .  And they should be ashamed of themselves.  How dare they? 

 

Reminds me of Romans 2:

 

21you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.â€

 

Don't even get me started on Priests/Pastors/leaders who abuse scriptures and their position for their own gain or purposes. 

 

And I'm really sorry for what you have experienced.

[*Lulu*]

PEOPLE shamed you for the abuse, misusing God's word/scriptures (I won't call it "yours" because you don't want it ,didn't ask for it, and should not carry the scars of it). . And they should be ashamed of themselves. How dare they?

 

Don't even get me started on Priests/Pastors/leaders who abuse scriptures and their position for their own gain or purposes.

 

And I'm really sorry for what you have experienced.

And now, in present day America, PEOPLE who align themselves with the term Christian have a disagreement about what scripture says on the topic of homosexuality.

 

The bulk of the people who applied scripture to me and my life circumstances did so from a sincere and deeply held belief that they were correctly interpreting scripture and being kind to me by confronting me with my sin.

 

You say they were wrong.

 

The bulk of people who apply scripture to homosexuals and thier life choices do so from a sincere and deeply held belief that they are correctly interpreting scripture and being kind by confronting homosexuals with thier sin.

 

I say they are wrong.

 

There are many who claim the name of Christ who say sexual orintation is part of how we are hard wired, created, and is not sinful when it falls outside the heterosexual default.

 

Why is your rebuke of scripture's "misuse" in my case more valid than my rebuke of scripture's "misuse" by conservative Christians?

[LucyStoner]

It really is. Andy said he could hear the man's absolute devastation in his voice when they first spoke on the phone. And if this story doesn't put a very real, human face on the problem, I don't know what would.

I've seen that before. It is very moving. Thank you to your brother for helping to tell this man's story.

[fraidycat]

My brother is an editor for TV and film out in LA. When this man came to him with his story, Andy could not help but be moved. He helped him put together this video. If this doesn't explain the need for equality, I don't know what would. It Could Happen to You.

:( Tears.