VENT: DH expects too much

[fruitofthewomb]

My DH is wonderful in lots of ways but he expects our kids to be little adults. I try to explain that they are behaving like children. It's normal. He doesn't care. He has anxiety issues but won't seek any kind of help.

 

Last night at church there was an informal meeting after services and he didn't like the way kids behaved. He was so angry (written all over his face) over nothing. He wasn't mean to them but just his attitude towards them. Very short. We are supposed to go on trip this weekend & he said he dreaded it bc our kids don't know how to mind & he is already having anxiety about it. I told him to stay home.

 

He was gone last weekend & I had to do church by myself. It was actually less stressful than when he is there. And I went alone to beauty shop. He would not have approved of how I managed kids there but I was not stressed! I sat them in corner with some animals to play with. They were still & quiet. Just took up a lot of space.

 

Everyone comments on how well behaved they are. I think more bc there are 5 of them & they are little so they expect them to run wild but still. They aren't bad kids. I am so sick of having to defend them to their own dad.

 

It's gotten to be easier for me to be single parent. I like it when he works late or is gone. Makes me sad.

 

This is probably a JAWM. I don't want people slamming my DH. I can-he's mine. Helpful thoughts I can take. But I am not leaving him or anything like that. I just feel sad this morning & needed to get it out there.

[sunflowerlady]

Hugs to you.

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

I understand.  I have a similar DH in many ways.  Funny guy.  Loves us.  But he doesn't "get" kids.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Well, some people are just not little kid people.  I can imagine the frustration for you though.  Hopefully he gets better as they get older.

 

I admit my husband, although not this extreme, was one to get frustrated a lot more quickly than I would when the kids were little.  Now that they are getting older it's much different. 

 

Plus I think we get used to certain things when we are with them all the time.  I know sometimes my husband would come home from work and the kids would be their usually animated, loud, and lively selves and he had been in a very quiet environment all day.  So to him it was even louder and more of a contrast.  So he'd wonder if they are always so loud like that?  Well yeah, pretty much because they are kids and that is how a lot of kids are!  LOL 

[ksr5377]

I'm sorry you're sad.  My DH isn't this extreme, although he doesn't have anxiety issues and that may be a big part of it, but he has a much shorter fuse when it comes to the kids.   In the car he's constantly telling to them to calm down, when they're really just having fun and talking to each other.  He recently made a new rule that we can't have singing at the kitchen table because it's just too much noise for him to handle while we're getting the last few things for a meal together.  I really want to go on a family vacation but he has no desire at all to be 'stuck' with 4 little kids far away from home.  He loves us all to pieces and he loves to play with the kids and get rowdy with them at certain times, but I think he just can't tune them out the way I can when he's not in that frame of mind. Probably because he doesn't get as much practice.

ETA:  Every now and then there is an event that I want to go to as a family, thinking that it will be a nice together and easier with DH there, and in the end I wish I would have just gone without him because he's so obviously not enjoying it and that just stresses me out more than keeping track of 4 kids would. 

[alisoncooks]

:grouphug:

 

It is extremely frustrating when parents don't see eye-to-eye with regard to discipline/expectations.  
Is your DH around other children at all (other than your own)?  Maybe that would help give him better perspective about what is acceptable/typical?  Schedule some daddy-time playground days...there's no shortage of kiddos acting up at the playground. :p ;)

 

FWIW, I know how you feel, sort of.  DH was raised in a home that disciplined much differently than my own (they made liberal use of sarcasm when disciplining young children, which I don't care for; I like sarcasm as much as the next person but in its proper place.)  It has been difficult for me to know when to step in, when to discuss, without totally undermining his authority as Daddy....

[poppy]

I wish he was able to enoy the kids more :(

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

BTDT. If you dh is like mine, he's the product of punitive and sarcastic parenting. Does he have a good relationship with his parents? My dh barely speaks to his although he thinks they were good parents (???????)!!!

[fruitofthewomb]

BTDT. If you dh is like mine, he's the product of punitive and sarcastic parenting. Does he have a good relationship with his parents? My dh barely speaks to his although he thinks they were good parents (???????)!!!

He gets along fine with his parents. His dad wasn't pretty absent from his life-worked a lot & wasn't really interested in being a dad-although he is kind, honest, etc (basically my DH). His mom is loud & overbearing. But a very good lady who raised 5 kids basically on her own. She took them camping alone, did ballgame a alone, etc.

[fruitofthewomb]

Just a question...do you get any alone time with just him doing something fun just the two of you??? I know for me, that the kids get on my nerves much less when I have regular time with just my husband. Perhaps your husband feels the same way too, if he gets some concentrated time where he feels like he is more than just dad but cool husband, it would make him a better husband.. Just a thought.

No-our alone time has been nonexistent bc I a severely attached baby. No one will keep her. She cries so loud & doesn't stop til I hold her.

[fruitofthewomb]

:grouphug:

 

It is extremely frustrating when parents don't see eye-to-eye with regard to discipline/expectations.

Is your DH around other children at all (other than your own)? Maybe that would help give him better perspective about what is acceptable/typical? Schedule some daddy-time playground days...there's no shortage of kiddos acting up at the playground. :p ;)

 

FWIW, I know how you feel, sort of. DH was raised in a home that disciplined much differently than my own (they made liberal use of sarcasm when disciplining young children, which I don't care for; I like sarcasm as much as the next person but in its proper place.) It has been difficult for me to know when to step in, when to discuss, without totally undermining his authority as Daddy....

He isn't around other kids much. And he doesn't seem to care how other kids act-except when he sees them act right. Then he points it out. A family was over & mom said get in the car & they all did immediately. He was so impressed (out kids have done that many times but who cares). He wasn't here the next time they were over & half the kids ignored mom repeatedly. I told him but it didn't count.

[ajfries]

In our house, I'M the one who expects little adults. It's very difficult. Least of all for me, I'm sure. I came from a home where you do what dad says because he said to. And my dad & my relationship was always lacking.

 

Anyway, what has helped me is to be around other kids. Even just at the grocery store. Well behaved kids AND those who are less so. We're intimately aware of our children's failings because I think we sometimes translate that into OUR failings. Also, it's taken some self examination to realize that I have "off" days, too. Days when I KNOW I should do laundry, but I'd rather be on Pinterest. Kids have the same stuff, with less self control.

 

Try to open up the lines of communication without placing blame. DH & I try to mention it LATER if we think each other was too harsh (or too soft). Some times all it takes is "DS is having a hard time with _______. I've been trying __________. Would you handle it different?" Some times in the heat of the moment we do differently than what we KNOW we should do; the emotions get to us. I know I struggle with taking things too personally. DH didn't put his dishes in the dishwasher (again!) the other day & I was like "I feel like you don't respect me!"  The dude just didn't feel like doing it. He didn't think to himself "Eh. Jenna can do that for me."

 

Not sure if that's even REMOTELY helpful...but I feel like I got a bit of therapeutic relief. :D

[jenn-]

My DH used to have moments like this and still does occasionally when we are out shopping.  Kids are going to touch stuff plain and simple.  What got my DH to realize that our kids really are pretty good kids out in public was a few cub scout meetings.  All the boys were the same age as mine and my kids were the ones huddled in the corner wondering what the heck was wrong with all those wild boys.  We did not last long in cub scouts to say the least.  Those were not the behaviors that I wanted the kids to learn. 

 

Now we have more problems at home with expectations of silence when the TV is on.  When the kids are getting ready for bed, they are going to make noise (bathroom is right off the living room as is the boys' bedroom).  Sometimes they might even have a question to ask.  He huffs and puffs about having to hit the pause button (we watch nothing real time).  Annoys me to death that he can't accept that kids make noise, especially the 3 boys (DD is of the age that she just hides in her room or plays piano with headphones on).

[Farrar]

Have you said this to him the way you're telling us? You feel the kids are good, they deserve to have the positives they do recognized, you wish he could enjoy them more, you want to be more on the same page with expectations... I feel like if it were my dh I would challenge him to only notice good things about them for a week. Or if he has something negative to say, to say three positive things as well. I'm sure your kids aren't angels (whose are?!?) so I'm sure they do need a little help sometimes, but his balance is obviously way off.

[Ottakee]

He gets along fine with his parents. His dad wasn't pretty absent from his life-worked a lot & wasn't really interested in being a dad-although he is kind, honest, etc (basically my DH). His mom is loud & overbearing. But a very good lady who raised 5 kids basically on her own. She took them camping alone, did ballgame a alone, etc.

 

Two things stuck out to me.  First of all, it sounds like dh is a lot like his dad and you like his mother so to him this might be "normal".......dad goes to work, mom raises the kids and does a lot alone with them.  He might not know how to play with the kids, what to expect at different ages, etc.

 

The second is that you mention a very attached baby.  It could be that dh needs some one on one time with you, without the kids.  Can you find someone to watch her even at your house for an hour while you and dh take a walk, get coffee, grab a quick meal?  The baby might not be happy but I think that working on things with your dh is worth that.  You might even have to have the sitter do what I had to do several times..........basically be there but put the baby safely where they can see their siblings and interact with them but not really even see the sitter.  Hard to explain well but I would do this when I would babysit my niece who screamed every time she saw me.  I would stay out of her line of sight (but where I could still see her---so often being behind her) and let her play with her siblings but yet she was safe and her mom and dad got an hour or 2 of alone time.

 

[Katy]

I'm not sure how I'd address that exactly, but I would talk to him about it.  DH has gotten a lot better, but he has had a tendency to get unreasonably angry at typical kid behavior.  I do my very best to not get angry at all and just have consistent discipline, to the point of making kids sit on the couch or go to their room until I'm calm enough to give them a reasonable consequence, but he's gotten red in the face and slammed a pillow on the floor rather violently and..  well...  scared everyone. I took him out of the room and said his reactions were out of proportion to the situation.  He calmed down, apologized, mentioned a frustrating situation at work, and decided he needed some lake time to chill out.  We all went to the lake several times over the next few weeks.

 

Anyway, I don't know what your DH's version of lake time is, but I'd try and ensure he gets it.  And then, in a calm moment when there was nothing too stressful going on I'd have a serious conversation about the sort of parent he wants to be and the sort of person he wants to be.  And probably some where in there I'd mention that he should treat his own family better than he treats complete strangers, and that I wouldn't want our DC to act like that in the future.

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

Have you said this to him the way you're telling us? You feel the kids are good, they deserve to have the positives they do recognized, you wish he could enjoy them more, you want to be more on the same page with expectations... I feel like if it were my dh I would challenge him to only notice good things about them for a week. Or if he has something negative to say, to say three positive things as well. I'm sure your kids aren't angels (whose are?!?) so I'm sure they do need a little help sometimes, but his balance is obviously way off.

IME, this just caused my husband to "check out" of parenting the kids and leave them to me. He refused to change.

 

I get the tv thing the OP describes. Same here.

 

Kids got tired of being shushed and picked at and they disengage. They avoied dh. Preteen years were especially tense and they were very good kids - he just wouldn't recognize anything they did right but would magnify anything they did wrong. I went 180 degrees the other way. Gave them all the atta-boys and support I could and then some. I reassured them that they were good and that their dad was just messed up from his own upbringing (they saw the non-relationship he has with his parents). They are great young men and have been a pleasure to raise.

 

 

Now that they are about to go off to college, dh is expressing sadness and regret that he didn't do more with them. Sad just describes the whole situation. He has to live with his self-inflicted wounds.

[The Girls' Mom]

My dh was a lot like this when the girls were small.  He just isn't the type of personality that enjoys the normal behavior of small kids.  He LOVED his kids...he just had a hard time dealing with all the energy they exuded.  We did end up in a rather single-parent mode when they were small.  Partly because of his job and travel, partly because it was just easier for me to do most of the parenting.  

It has become much better now that they are older.  Our roles have shifted a bit and he is much more tolerant of their normal teen behavior, while it drives me up the wall.

[Joanne]

I've been in the place where it was more pleasant and manageable and live-able with "him" away than at home.

 

It can be a miserable life.

 

I have more, if you ever want, but I'll just offer {{{hugs}}}

PS: Ok, I guess I will say that if my DH had age-inappropriate expectations and issues that were not addressed, I'd have some kind of ultimatum. If that didn't include separation/divorce, it would include a stated decision and intention to parent solo in order to protect the kids and also bringing another person (clergy, therapist) into the picture for accountability and safety.

[J-rap]

My dh expected little adults, although he did it lovingly and didn't lose patience.  He seemed to know what they really were capable of, which was usually more than what I thought. :)   Sometimes I'd get frustrated, but in hindsite, I can see that he never really lost perspective of their true ages, he just knew what they were capable of and he challenged them to live up to that.

 

Maybe there is a middle ground between you two?

 

[lllll]

..

[Trilliums]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:

 We struggled in some of the same ways as a young family for years.  Things got so bad (very little happiness in our lives) that I did consider leaving.  DH finally sought treatment and our lives have been much better.  He is a thousand times more happy and less stressed with his life in general.   I really feel for you.  I remember the intense feelings of frustration.

 

Will he try things like omega fatty acids?  One of my kids was often stressed and crabby and fish oil had an incredible affect.  

[fruitofthewomb]

In our house, I'M the one who expects little adults. It's very difficult. Least of all for me, I'm sure. I came from a home where you do what dad says because he said to. And my dad & my relationship was always lacking.

 

Anyway, what has helped me is to be around other kids. Even just at the grocery store. Well behaved kids AND those who are less so. We're intimately aware of our children's failings because I think we sometimes translate that into OUR failings. Also, it's taken some self examination to realize that I have "off" days, too. Days when I KNOW I should do laundry, but I'd rather be on Pinterest. Kids have the same stuff, with less self control.

 

Try to open up the lines of communication without placing blame. DH & I try to mention it LATER if we think each other was too harsh (or too soft). Some times all it takes is "DS is having a hard time with _______. I've been trying __________. Would you handle it different?" Some times in the heat of the moment we do differently than what we KNOW we should do; the emotions get to us. I know I struggle with taking things too personally. DH didn't put his dishes in the dishwasher (again!) the other day & I was like "I feel like you don't respect me!" The dude just didn't feel like doing it. He didn't think to himself "Eh. Jenna can do that for me."

 

Not sure if that's even REMOTELY helpful...but I feel like I got a bit of therapeutic relief. :D

This was helpful-thanks!

[fruitofthewomb]

Have you said this to him the way you're telling us? You feel the kids are good, they deserve to have the positives they do recognized, you wish he could enjoy them more, you want to be more on the same page with expectations... I feel like if it were my dh I would challenge him to only notice good things about them for a week. Or if he has something negative to say, to say three positive things as well. I'm sure your kids aren't angels (whose are?!?) so I'm sure they do need a little help sometimes, but his balance is obviously way off.

Oh yes- lots of times & in different ways.

[fruitofthewomb]

Two things stuck out to me. First of all, it sounds like dh is a lot like his dad and you like his mother so to him this might be "normal".......dad goes to work, mom raises the kids and does a lot alone with them. He might not know how to play with the kids, what to expect at different ages, etc.

 

The second is that you mention a very attached baby. It could be that dh needs some one on one time with you, without the kids. Can you find someone to watch her even at your house for an hour while you and dh take a walk, get coffee, grab a quick meal? The baby might not be happy but I think that working on things with your dh is worth that. You might even have to have the sitter do what I had to do several times..........basically be there but put the baby safely where they can see their siblings and interact with them but not really even see the sitter. Hard to explain well but I would do this when I would babysit my niece who screamed every time she saw me. I would stay out of her line of sight (but where I could still see her---so often being behind her) and let her play with her siblings but yet she was safe and her mom and dad got an hour or 2 of alone time.

 

We do have a special date planned in a few weeks. We need to make it more of a priority. This baby has really knocked us both off balance.

[fruitofthewomb]

I'm not sure how I'd address that exactly, but I would talk to him about it. DH has gotten a lot better, but he has had a tendency to get unreasonably angry at typical kid behavior. I do my very best to not get angry at all and just have consistent discipline, to the point of making kids sit on the couch or go to their room until I'm calm enough to give them a reasonable consequence, but he's gotten red in the face and slammed a pillow on the floor rather violently and.. well... scared everyone. I took him out of the room and said his reactions were out of proportion to the situation. He calmed down, apologized, mentioned a frustrating situation at work, and decided he needed some lake time to chill out. We all went to the lake several times over the next few weeks.

 

Anyway, I don't know what your DH's version of lake time is, but I'd try and ensure he gets it. And then, in a calm moment when there was nothing too stressful going on I'd have a serious conversation about the sort of parent he wants to be and the sort of person he wants to be. And probably some where in there I'd mention that he should treat his own family better than he treats complete strangers, and that I wouldn't want our DC to act like that in the future.

DH has had a lot of time to himself within past few months to do exactly what he wants. Including 2 long weekends away alone.

 

I plan to address this again with him soon. I am going to start seeing a counselor myself so maybe that will help

[fruitofthewomb]

Does your dh compare his kids to other kids a lot? I'm just wondering what the point of that would be. I don't see how that would help anything ...

 

 

 

My dh was a lot like Katy's and Nick-Zack's dh's. Only he has always been lousy with kids (ANY kids) and animals. His parents were the same way. I basically did what Joanne suggested and quietly went about parenting solo. It wasn't hard to do. My dh was also a workaholic. It has worked out extremely well for my kids.

 

And, just like Nick-Zack's dh, my dh is now living with the consequences of his choices.

 

Based on what you've said in this thread, I would quit worrying about your dh and trying to understand/change/explain, etc., him. I would just raise the kids and if dh at some point wakes up and decides to participate in a helpful way - great. If not, you did what you could and that's all you can do. Make conscious choices and use your energy wisely. :grouphug:

No he doesn't compare a lot. He said something that one time about how those kids listened the first time. If I (or his mom) point out how terrible a kid is acting compare to ours he says he doesn't care how anyone else is acting. He expects xyz from ours.

[fruitofthewomb]

:grouphug: :grouphug:

We struggled in some of the same ways as a young family for years. Things got so bad (very little happiness in our lives) that I did consider leaving. DH finally sought treatment and our lives have been much better. He is a thousand times more happy and less stressed with his life in general. I really feel for you. I remember the intense feelings of frustration.

 

Will he try things like omega fatty acids? One of my kids was often stressed and crabby and fish oil had an incredible affect.

He did go on antidepressants for a few months & it was incredible. He just stopped taking them. Without telling me. It didn't take long for me to figure it out. Since then I have tried natural approach-exercise, eating well, herbs, etc. He just won't follow through with anything.

[Ottakee]

We do have a special date planned in a few weeks. We need to make it more of a priority. This baby has really knocked us both off balance.

 

That is great.  I am sure you need a bit of time to recharge as well.

 

He just might be overwhelmed by the activity level of 5 kids and then takes it out on them.  Doesn't make it right or any easier but helps you see his point of view.

 

Does your husband have any guy friends he can talk to about stuff like this?  To get another dad's perspective on kids and typical behavior.

[fruitofthewomb]

Thank you all for your kind words & suggestions. I don't feel so alone.

[CAmomof4]

Thank you all for your kind words & suggestions. I don't feel so alone.

 

Seriously, I have many friends who describe their DHs this way, and I would too!

 

I think it is common for men, who are out at work all day, and almost exclusively in the company of adults, to not have the same perspective as we do, stuck in the house all day and in the company of our kids!  My DH said it's a big source of stress for him sometimes, driving home, knowing that the kids are going to bombard him screaming enthusiastically the second he walks in the door.  He said all he wants is peace and quiet and to relax after being at work "dealing with idiots" all day.

 

So, the first thing we practiced is cleaning up the living room.  DH likes to put his stuff down and lay on the couch first thing, so we know that that room has to be CLEAN when he gets here.  So that has helped.  Now we're working on "quiet time" for that hour, where they can talk and play quietly.  Mostly he doesn't like noise, and running in the house, and clutter.  So little by little we're trying to remove that.

 

Personally, I know my kids are still young, and they're cooped up in our tiny house a large part of the day, so when they're with me, I'm much more lenient.  Except at nap time - either go to sleep or play or read quietly in bed, those are the rules.  That's momma's hour.  :-)

 

DH is really a wonderful, loving father, but he does have a very short fuse and high expectations.  Should never have let him see The Sound of Music - the first time he watched it he saw Captain Von Trapp and said "YES!!  Hand me my computer, I'm going to order one of those whistles."  When he has one child at a time, he's very patient and has a great time.  When I leave him to babysit for an hour or two, no matter what time of day it is, it's always "Get in bed!"

[Guest]

I admit my husband, although not this extreme, was one to get frustrated a lot more quickly than I would when the kids were little. Now that they are getting older it's much different.

 

Yeah, same here. I did not have a nice time on vacations, because dh got so annoyed with things like wiggly kids waiting for their meals, or kids who were beyond needing a nap. I could see the problem, but DH was just annoyed with the immediate behavior...and by all accounts, our kids were good!.

 

He is not like this with "normal" teen behavior; he gets that. It was normal preschool behavior he couldn't deal with.

[Night Elf]

:grouphug: :grouphug:

[Ottakee]

He did go on antidepressants for a few months & it was incredible. He just stopped taking them. Without telling me. It didn't take long for me to figure it out. Since then I have tried natural approach-exercise, eating well, herbs, etc. He just won't follow through with anything.

 

It might be time for a serious talk.  Were the antidepressants working well.........so that he then decided he didn't NEED them anymore?  That is very common.  Was he having any side effects from the meds that would make him not want to take them?

 

Maybe just schedule the doctors appointment and go from there.  Sadly many people feel they just need to "man up" and not take the meds when in reality, the meds are very helpful.  It is likely that if he is depressed that the following through with anything is just too much to deal with.  If you arrange child care and make a late day doctor's appointment with the promise of a date night afterwards would he go?

[fruitofthewomb]

 

It might be time for a serious talk. Were the antidepressants working well.........so that he then decided he didn't NEED them anymore? That is very common. Was he having any side effects from the meds that would make him not want to take them?

 

Maybe just schedule the doctors appointment and go from there. Sadly many people feel they just need to "man up" and not take the meds when in reality, the meds are very helpful. It is likely that if he is depressed that the following through with anything is just too much to deal with. If you arrange child care and make a late day doctor's appointment with the promise of a date night afterwards would he go?[/quote

 

They did work well. I basically made him go see the doctor. Kind of an ultimatum thing which I have since regretted. I asked him to just try the meds & see if they helped. And they did. But he felt ashamed or embarrassed I think. So one day out of the blue he just quit taking them. Said they weren't helping him. I have tried since to get him back on them but he gets very angry when I mention it. I have asked him to speak to our pastor or a counselor and he won't. He just won't admit that he has a problem. It's everyone else that needs to shape up.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Quitting cold turkey like that can be very bad and can set you up for more depression.  I don't know why you regret giving him an ultimatum on something that he needed and your family needed.  That might be tough love but I think it is necessary at times.  

[Indian summer]

I wonder if it will get better as the children age? Some people are more stressed by little kid stuff, especially if they don't have a good gauge on what's normal for little ones. I hope that's the case here. I went through times when it was easier to parent when dh was not with us, but it's improved a lot as the kids have grown (ours are between 8-13 now, btw)

 

(((hugs)))

[LucyStoner]

I find this is common with people who don't understand child development. Is he at all open to learning more about child development?

 

His reactions to them will set the tone for how they relate to him and trust him. At some point he'll pay the price with them if he doesn't get his expectations more in jive with reality.

[fruitofthewomb]

Quitting cold turkey like that can be very bad and can set you up for more depression. I don't know why you regret giving him an ultimatum on something that he needed and your family needed. That might be tough love but I think it is necessary at times.

I know not everyone will agree with me & that's ok. I flip flop on this issue myself. I believe that marriage is forever. So ultimatums just seem wrong to me. But if it brings about a positive change-is it justified? I don't know. I just know that I didn't feel right about it. Maybe if he would have continued on the meds I wouldn't feel that way. But I think the fact that I 'made him' was an issue for him. He DOES NOT like to be told what to do.