New Title: School Shootings

[Word Nerd]

Nm

[Colleen]

There's been one school shooting in my state since 1995. 

 

Which state?

[creekland]

Which state?

 

Google found me a list of all worldwide school shootings since 1996:

 

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777958.html

 

It does not have this latest one added, but it's a sobering list to look at just how many they have been and where.  They are not all US, but many are.  Then again, the US is larger than many of the other countries, so who knows how the comparison is exactly...

[Joker]

I found this site which says it has tracked school shootings since 1992. I'm not sure how accurate it is but it looks like it could be useful.

 

http://www.stoptheshootings.org/

 

• ETA: Upon looking at it, I can say that it doesn't include only school shootings that involved students. At least one listed in my area was a teacher who was fired that came back and shot the head of the school and them himself.

[gardenmom5]

Google found me a list of all worldwide school shootings since 1996:

 

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777958.html

 

It does not have this latest one added, but it's a sobering list to look at just how many they have been and where.  They are not all US, but many are.  Then again, the US is larger than many of the other countries, so who knows how the comparison is exactly...

 

just the US population (not including canada, mexico or even central america)  has over 316+M people.  western europe is around 397M. 

 

if comparing the US - you have to compare all of  western europe (keep in mind people - texas is one state, and is bigger in land mass that many european countries put together.  CA has one of the largest economies in the world.)

 

for apples to apples - scotland would count as one state -  (similar population to colorado/SC.  5.3M/4.7M, land area to south carolina approx 30K sq m.)

[creekland]

 

I found this site which says it has tracked school shootings since 1992. I'm not sure how accurate it is but it looks like it could be useful.

 

http://www.stoptheshootings.org/

 

• ETA: Upon looking at it, I can say that it doesn't include only school shootings that involved students. At least one listed in my area was a teacher who was fired that came back and shot the head of the school and them himself.

 

 

That one gives more US info than mine. (But leaves off my state of PA?  The Amish school shooting of 2006 was a pretty major one IMO.)

 

It does not give worldwide shootings as the infoplease link did.  The infoplease link also did "other" mass shootings - not just school shootings.

[hornblower]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting  - these are for the rest of the world

USA has its own page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States

Of course baseline population has to be considered. USA is roughly 10x population of Cda.

EU population is about 500 million, btw.

 

[Colleen]

Google found me a list of all worldwide school shootings since 1996:

 

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777958.html

 

To clarify, this includes mass shootings that didn't take place at schools.  (And on the other hand, doesn't include most gun-related tragedies that take place all around the world in any given year.)

[unsinkable]

I agree. Unfortunately, rational discussion and logical argument quickly go by the wayside where this conversation is concerned.

 

 

Yes. There are all manner of underlying problems and issues, but the tool is the means by which the end is accomplished.

 

 

I'm bothered by an attempt to define the character and mindset of a person about whom we knew absolutely nothing until yesterday ~ and really, about whom we still know very little. Along those lines, I find it strangely voyeuristic and of very little purpose that people are reading his "tweets". I've no doubt some try to justify it ~ "We can better understand his motivation and learn from that going forward". But no, let's be honest. It's primarily voyeurism.

 

 

 

You sound like teenagers who says people are "creeping" on them...when the people read their PUBLIC writings on Facebook and Twitter.

 

It is nonsensical.

 

Voyeurism would imply this somehow private information became public. It has always been public.

 

Did anyone reached out to this boy in response to the troubling tweets?

[gardenmom5]

I don't really understand the logic here. Australia wasn't a country founded by only convicts who'd used guns, right ? I would think the majority would be there from other situations. 

 

bankruptcy/not paying bills was also a reason.

[Slartibartfast]

Convicts were also sent to the Americas.

 

 

[creekland]

I don't really understand the logic here. Australia wasn't a country founded by only convicts who'd used guns, right ? I would think the majority would be there from other situations. And just because you're a convict doesn't automatically mean you've got some kind of a gun fetish.

I think Laura nailed it. The US has a gun mentality. Violence will solve most of our problems, the govt wants to take them all away, it's a never ending cycle. But hey, it's just another way the grand old USA can claim to be unique. And this country is so large! How can we compare it to others??

 

I suppose it would be helpful to have the back story to this.  ;)

 

Around the lunch table we have occasionally tried to figure out what makes our country different than Europe in thought and actions since many of us (Americans) come from European ancestry.  Our (totally non-scientific) conclusion was that "our" genetics are mainly from those who opted to leave everything and set out for a new life vs those who preferred to stay with what was known.  This, of course, applies to those of us who came from non-European countries too - but the original question was about why we are different than Europe.  We felt it was that sense of individualism and adventure that carries over genetically.

 

With regards to Australia, we mused that it could end up being kind of similar there as those who were sent came from genetic stock of those who also didn't fit the social norm, both convicts and others who set out merely to end up somewhere "new."

 

It could, of course, be totally incorrect.  It was just lunch time theorizing.  It all took place probably a couple of years ago and wasn't related to a shooting at all.

 

MY thought just went back to that when wondering about the situation at hand - wondering if it could also be applied to that million dollar question as to why the mentality is different.

 

The "this country is large" bit is merely a fact that came to mind when comparing it to other countries on that list like Germany.  Our states differ in size too - as do the different populations of those states.  It was a quick thought of something that would need to be worked out if one wanted pure statistics.  I've no doubt the US is more violent both inside and outside of schools.  But I've no idea how even the stats are between any one state and another (or similar).  It's just not my field.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Well to be fair they were British convicts.  They were probably very genteel and polite during their depredations.

[Colleen]

You sound like teenagers who says people are "creeping" on them...when the people read their PUBLIC writings on Facebook and Twitter.

 

It is nonsensical.

 

Yes, the tendency to publicize one's every thought is nonsensical.  And the desire to consume those publicized thoughts even more so.

 

Voyeurism would imply this somehow private information became public. 

 

All of it is, to me, voyeuristic.  Voyeuristic and narcissistic.

 

Did anyone reached out to this boy in response to the troubling tweets?

 

I don't know.  In response to reading what are perceived to be troubling tweets, is anyone going to reach out to others?  Some how I doubt it. 

[VeteranMom]

 

 

 

 

I'm bothered by an attempt to define the character and mindset of a person about whom we knew absolutely nothing until yesterday ~ and really, about whom we still know very little.  Along those lines, I find it strangely voyeuristic and of very little purpose that people are reading his "tweets".  I've no doubt some try to justify it ~ "We can better understand his motivation and learn from that going forward".  But no, let's be honest.  It's primarily voyeurism.

 

 

 

He posted things on a public forum.  If this shooting (like all the others) is used for the anti-gun movement, it is the public's business.  I'm not at all ashamed that I read his tweets.  This kid crossed a line and killed people.  I think we can all safely assume he needed help and wonder why there wasn't any.  

[Colleen]

He posted things on a public forum.  If this shooting (like all the others) is used for the anti-gun movement, it is the public's business.  I'm not at all ashamed that I read his tweets.  This kid crossed a line and killed people.  I think we can all safely assume he needed help and wonder why there wasn't any.  

 

So the purpose in reading his tweets is…what?

[Catwoman]

I just went and read the tweets, and I have to say that they were not at all what I was expecting to read. Based on the descriptions I have been hearing of this kid, I thought I would see nice, pleasant, lighthearted tweets from a happy boy that suddenly turned dark and unpleasant... but that was not at all the impression I had of him after reading those tweets. :eek:

 

If I found out that my 14yo had posted those kinds of messages, I would be beyond mortified.

 

BTW, for anyone who hasn't read the tweets -- the language and content are NOT kid-friendly, so make sure you don't have any little ones looking over your shoulder as you read!

[Laura Corin]

for apples to apples - scotland would count as one state -  (similar population to colorado/SC.  5.3M/4.7M, land area to south carolina approx 30K sq m.)

 

It's important to compare correctly, you are right.  Scotland has had one school shooting, so that would compare, as you say, to one state.  However the whole of the UK has also had that one school shooting.  So that's one to a population of 60 million.  Has the US had more than five (300 million population) school shootings ever?

 

I no longer believe that availability of guns is the entire problem - if that were the case, why would girls not shoot up schools?  But given the American cultural entwinement with guns, strict gun control (to me) makes sense.  

 

It's kind of like Scotland and alcohol.  Scotland traditionally has more of a problem with drink than does England.  The Scottish parliament is bringing in tighter drink-driving laws than England's, because it's necessary - there's a particular problem that needs an inconvenient solution.

 

L

[VeteranMom]

So the purpose in reading his tweets is…what?

Trying to figure out his state of mind in the days, weeks, and months leading up to this violent act.        

[Catwoman]

Trying to figure out his state of mind in the days, weeks, and months leading up to this violent act.        

 

 

:iagree:

 

I don't know why it would be considered "voyeuristic" for people to want to try to make some sense out of something so horrific, and it seems perfectly normal to want to know more about the boy who did such an awful thing, particularly in this case when he has been widely described as a happy, popular kid.

 

Reading the boy's own words is a way for people to try to gain a bit of insight into what was going on behind the smiling demeanor -- and these are the boy's publicly posted statements, so it's not as though someone stole his private personal journal and posted it online for the entire world to read.

[unsinkable]

I don't know. In response to reading what are perceived to be troubling tweets, is anyone going to reach out to others? Some how I doubt it.

I have reached out in response to social media postings I've read from minors whose postings show up on my children's social media.

 

Once a very young teen girl wrote something to her "boyfriend" that indicated he had hurt her (during a fight) by choking her with the necklace he had given her. He wrote back that he was so sorry, that he hadn't meant to. And then her friend wrote that since he had left marks on her neck, he had to have known what he was doing!

 

It was horrifying. I was so worried that something worse might happen, the way the messages were so intense and emotional. It was already so bad.

 

They went back and forth. The girl "broke up" with him, he begged to be taken back, the friend kept chiming in. Then finally the girl "took him back."

 

I copied everything and sent (emailed) it to the girl's mother, who i knew personally. She thanked me and told me she had knew her daughter and the boyfriend were having problems but hadn't looked at her social media in months.

 

I also know my kids have called friends as soon as they read concerning posts or tweets.

 

So you can doubt that people reach out, but you'd be wrong for my family.

[Melissa in Australia]

It just shows that the way different countries view different situations alter statistics. A school shooting in the US is not the same thing a a school shooting in Britain, therefore comparing statistics does not show an accurate representation.

 

I was not aware that there had ever been a school shooting in Britain

 

[Laura Corin]

I was not aware that there had ever been a school shooting in Britain

 

 

Yes.  One in Dunblane.  It was so long ago that Andy Murray, who was at that primary school, is now a fully-adult tennis player.  A second wave of gun control legislation was brought in after it - the first had been after a street shooting in Hungerford.  Since then, there has been one other street mass killing.

 

L

[Melissa in Australia]

thank you Laura

[poppy]

It's important to compare correctly, you are right.  Scotland has had one school shooting, so that would compare, as you say, to one state.  However the whole of the UK has also had that one school shooting.  So that's one to a population of 60 million.  Has the US had more than five (300 million population) school shootings ever?

 

I no longer believe that availability of guns is the entire problem - if that were the case, why would girls not shoot up schools?  But given the American cultural entwinement with guns, strict gun control (to me) makes sense.  

 

It's kind of like Scotland and alcohol.  Scotland traditionally has more of a problem with drink than does England.  The Scottish parliament is bringing in tighter drink-driving laws than England's, because it's necessary - there's a particular problem that needs an inconvenient solution.

 

L

 

It's true it's not just guns.  But what I find infuriating is that people say "the problem is not just guns, it's also _______" and then go on to say what we should do about _______.    And then the discussion on next step goes on with handguns magically taken out of the equation.  As though handguns and  our gun culture are constants we must accept, but we should work towards fix mental illness issues and the media and video games.    

 

Guns will always be in America, naturally. I respect hunters.  But our gun culture is not unchangeable.  We have legislators actively blocking common sense measures to prevent gun violence, such as universal background checks.  We have cases like that horrible incident of the child using an Uzi at a gun show and accidentally killing her instructor....... the death to me was less shocking the concept of using deadly weapons like toys.   These factors are no less important than the other cultural ones under discussion.

[Jen500]

I think that it might be appropriate to start another thread, if you guys want to discuss gun control in the abstract AGAIN...and leave this thread for discussion of this particular tragedy.

 

SWB

 

Good idea. I'm not sure if everyone saw this.

[hornblower]

I wonder if isome of the unique factors are cultural

 

- emphasis on the individual

- emphasis on happiness; it's like it's owed to you ....

- emphasis on celebrity, notoriety, fame

Add the stress of transitioning to adulthood, hormones, some mental instability, perhaps mind altering drugs/alcohol .... And then add the ready availability of powerful weapons...

 

Just something I was mulling while thinking about hikikomori. Insane stress, various pressures but totally different sense of self and role of community and instead of homicidal rage, you get withdrawal.

 

Both are in some ways still fundamentally a rejection of the society, giant fu to the world, but it takes such different form.

[Carol in Cal.]

I wonder if isome of the unique factors are cultural

 

- emphasis on the individual

- emphasis on happiness; it's like it's owed to you ....

- emphasis on celebrity, notoriety, fame

Add the stress of transitioning to adulthood, hormones, some mental instability, perhaps mind altering drugs/alcohol .... And then add the ready availability of powerful weapons...

 

Just something I was mulling while thinking about hikikomori. Insane stress, various pressures but totally different sense of self and role of community and instead of homicidal rage, you get withdrawal.

 

Both are in some ways still fundamentally a rejection of the society, giant fu to the world, but it takes such different form.

 

I do think there are unique cultural features.

The main one is the lack of moral consensus, and the lack of anything being unthinkable.

All of the other countries that have been mentioned in this thread differ from the US in that regard, I believe.

 

Additionally, there is an expectation of shielding of kids from difficulty early on as the norm that might contribute to it being unbearable at the high school level--I'm not as sure about that one, but it does seem to be fairly common in the US compared to elsewhere.

[hornblower]

so now I'm left puzzling what makes Cdns so different.

I'd say we have way less consensus on anything. We're staunchly multicultural and not melting pot.

Perhaps our only consensus is to choose tolerance whenever possible?

Long guns are extremely common in rural areas but guns in urban areas are not.

Not sure if we shelter our kids from difficulty any more or less than you do...

[Reefgazer]

My personal POV is that the US is a very spoiled and entitled culture, and there is a contingent that will extract its pound of flesh in revenge if it doesn't get what it wants.  Little snowflakes who are given everything on demand grow up to be big snowflakes who expect the same and are very angry when it doesn't work out that way. 

So if the difference between the two cultures isn't lack of access to guns, what is it ? We have mental illness at the same rates, and we have insufficient care available for the mentally ill, especially for youth. Our kids play video games too. We are globalised, secular...I guarantee most kids have heard of Columbine....they see media coverage of school shootings...

 

[VeteranMom]

My personal POV is that the US is a very spoiled and entitled culture, and there is a contingent that will extract its pound of flesh in revenge if it doesn't get what it wants.  Little snowflakes who are given everything on demand grow up to be big snowflakes who expect the same and are very angry when it doesn't work out that way. 

Do you think it's just certain generations that have this mindset?  I don't really see this with my generation for themselves (or with older generations), but it's definitely apparent when dealing with today's parents wanting things for their kids.  My dh coaches competitive youth sports and there is the attitude from many that if their kid wants something, they should get it- period.  It's been an eye opening experience to see how other families operate.  We routinely have kids who tryout and don't have an athletic bone in their bodies, but the parents want little Johnny to play and try to demand a starting position on the team or increased playing time.  Many don't seem to live in reality.  The kid says "I want _________" and the parent works to get the want filled.  We've seen some really bizarre behavior over the past 3 years.  

[Colleen]

I do think there are unique cultural features.

The main one is the lack of moral consensus, and the lack of anything being unthinkable.

All of the other countries that have been mentioned in this thread differ from the US in that regard, I believe.

 

How so?  How does Germany (for example) have a more defined moral consensus than the U.S.?  What does "moral consensus" even mean, I wonder?  (Not trying to argue with you, btw; rather, thinking the term is convenient but rather gray matter.)

[Reefgazer]

I do think it's age-specific; I see it more with younger people who have been given everything.  At least this is the case in my neighborhood and family.

Do you think it's just certain generations that have this mindset?  I don't really see this with my generation for themselves (or with older generations), but it's definitely apparent when dealing with today's parents wanting things for their kids.  My dh coaches competitive youth sports and there is the attitude from many that if their kid wants something, they should get it- period.  It's been an eye opening experience to see how other families operate.  We routinely have kids who tryout and don't have an athletic bone in their bodies, but the parents want little Johnny to play and try to demand a starting position on the team or increased playing time.  Many don't seem to live in reality.  The kid says "I want _________" and the parent works to get the want filled.  We've seen some really bizarre behavior over the past 3 years.  

 

[poppy]

I do think it's age-specific; I see it more with younger people who have been given everything.  At least this is the case in my neighborhood and family.

 

Poverty, neglect, abuse  - these are factors that are known to lead to violence.

I can't see overindulgence having the same effect. 

 

Just want to give the update that I read the killer shot all 5 victims in the head.  The article I read said that a first-year teacher ran towards him (unarmed) and that's when he either accidentally or intentionally killed himself.   An incredibly heroic act that almost certainly saved lives.  I admire her courage greatly.

[whitestavern]

Just a random comment... i read his tweets and they just don't align with what I've been reading in the news as far as what type of person he was. Or maybe I'm hopelessly out of touch if those tweets are considered to be normal from a "regular, nice popular" kid.

[Catwoman]

Just a random comment... i read his tweets and they just don't align with what I've been reading in the news as far as what type of person he was. Or maybe I'm hopelessly out of touch if those tweets are considered to be normal from a "regular, nice popular" kid.

That was my impression as well. It felt almost as though the tweets were posted by an entirely different kid than the boy they keep describing on the news.

[JoJosMom]

Just a random comment... i read his tweets and they just don't align with what I've been reading in the news as far as what type of person he was. Or maybe I'm hopelessly out of touch if those tweets are considered to be normal from a "regular, nice popular" kid.

 

 

That was my impression as well. It felt almost as though the tweets were posted by an entirely different kid than the boy they keep describing on the news.

 

Count me as "me, three."  I seriously hope that those tweets don't reflect the behavior of what is now considered "regular" and "nice."  Once again, I find myself saying WHERE were the parents?  Do parents not monitor their children's social media accounts? Like an idiot, I followed a link to one of the children's Facebook pages.  Which links to all the other kids' pages, included the murdered girl.  Dear God.  They were just babies. And I have a sinking feeling that at least some of them were engaged in adult-type relationships that they were completely unequipped emotionally to handle. It is so, so, so sad. I'm so grateful that my 12 year old still likes to dress up like a pirate and play. Please Lord, let her keep her innocence for as long as possible.

[Reefgazer]

Columbine, Santa Monica, Sandy Hook - pretty well-off places, AFAIK.  I can't remember the last time I heard of a random mass school shooting in Compton or south Philly.  Not saying there isn't violence in those places, but the violence is not of the same nature.

Poverty, neglect, abuse  - these are factors that are known to lead to violence.
I can't see overindulgence having the same effect. 
 
Just want to give the update that I read the killer shot all 5 victims in the head.  The article I read said that a first-year teacher ran towards him (unarmed) and that's when he either accidentally or intentionally killed himself.   An incredibly heroic act that almost certainly saved lives.  I admire her courage greatly.

[Guest]

Oh, my. Ugh. I just...can't formulate anything coherent after reading his twitter.

 

There is quite a bit of inappropriate material on there.  Very disturbing... all of it.

[Guest]

I just went and read the tweets, and I have to say that they were not at all what I was expecting to read. Based on the descriptions I have been hearing of this kid, I thought I would see nice, pleasant, lighthearted tweets from a happy boy that suddenly turned dark and unpleasant... but that was not at all the impression I had of him after reading those tweets. :eek:

 

If I found out that my 14yo had posted those kinds of messages, I would be beyond mortified.

 

BTW, for anyone who hasn't read the tweets -- the language and content are NOT kid-friendly, so make sure you don't have any little ones looking over your shoulder as you read!

 

The sad thing is that some of this is not uncommon behavior in the public school system.  I'm not saying all kids in public school behave this way, but there is a certain "air" that I've noticed... the bad language and negative attitudes... this behavior might not be too surprising for many.  I honestly think homeschoolers are sheltered from a lot of this (and that is a GOOD thing).  I know I was very surprised when I sent my kids to public school last year... the things that go on (even in the great school district we live in) are horrendous.  The attitudes of many of the students are awful.  This language is not uncommon.

[Guest]

Just a random comment... i read his tweets and they just don't align with what I've been reading in the news as far as what type of person he was. Or maybe I'm hopelessly out of touch if those tweets are considered to be normal from a "regular, nice popular" kid.

 

That's pretty much what I was just trying to say.  These tweets may not stand out.  I know people might disagree with me, but public schools are honestly awful, nowadays.

[Guest]

Just a random comment... i read his tweets and they just don't align with what I've been reading in the news as far as what type of person he was. Or maybe I'm hopelessly out of touch if those tweets are considered to be normal from a "regular, nice popular" kid.

 

 

Count me as "me, three."  I seriously hope that those tweets don't reflect the behavior of what is now considered "regular" and "nice."  Once again, I find myself saying WHERE were the parents?  Do parents not monitor their children's social media accounts? Like an idiot, I followed a link to one of the children's Facebook pages.  Which links to all the other kids' pages, included the murdered girl.  Dear God.  They were just babies. And I have a sinking feeling that at least some of them were engaged in adult-type relationships that they were completely unequipped emotionally to handle. It is so, so, so sad. I'm so grateful that my 12 year old still likes to dress up like a pirate and play. Please Lord, let her keep her innocence for as long as possible.

 

 

It is popular to have a certain tough attitude and to use certain language.  We live in a great school district and kids (the "popular ones") are selling drugs out of their lockers and backpacks, fighting on the school bus, hitting adults, using foul language, etc.  Their parents encourage them to do what they have to do to be popular and do not step in for this type of behavior.  They do drugs with their children.  They offer their kids alcohol and let them get drunk.  All for popularity.  This is normal behavior.  Accepted behavior.  Encouraged behavior.  Instead of disciplining the kids, they laugh at the antics and encourage it.

[Joker]

The sad thing is that some of this is not uncommon behavior in the public school system.  I'm not saying all kids in public school behave this way, but there is a certain "air" that I've noticed... the bad language and negative attitudes... this behavior might not be too surprising for many.  I honestly think homeschoolers are sheltered from a lot of this (and that is a GOOD thing).  I know I was very surprised when I sent my kids to public school last year... the things that go on (even in the great school district we live in) are horrendous.  The attitudes of many of the students is awful.  This language is not uncommon.

 

This is such a horrible stereotype. My dds have been in ps since middle school and its been a much more pleasant experience than what they had with homeschoolers. The only bullying my youngest ever experienced was with fellow homeschoolers. She's been accepted and treated nicely in ps. Do they hear bad language? Yes, but they heard that without being in ps. Public school isn't the problem (but maybe thinking it is helps others to feel safe).

[jelbe5]

I read the tweets of the shooter and of some of the victims as well. I am wondering why these accounts have not been closed down? Maybe I'm off base but I think I would want as much privacy as possible in such a terrible situation . . . I would not want the whole world looking at my loved one's social media accounts.

[Guest]

The sad thing is that some of this is not uncommon behavior in the public school system.  I'm not saying all kids in public school behave this way, but there is a certain "air" that I've noticed... the bad language and negative attitudes... this behavior might not be too surprising for many.  I honestly think homeschoolers are sheltered from a lot of this (and that is a GOOD thing).  I know I was very surprised when I sent my kids to public school last year... the things that go on (even in the great school district we live in) are horrendous.  The attitudes of many of the students is awful.  This language is not uncommon.

 

 

This is such a horrible stereotype. My dds have been in ps since middle school and its been a much more pleasant experience than what they had with homeschoolers. The only bullying my youngest ever experienced was with fellow homeschoolers. She's been accepted and treated nicely in ps. Do they hear bad language? Yes, but they heard that without being in ps. Public school isn't the problem (but maybe thinking it is helps others to feel safe).

 

See bolded.

 

I'm sharing our experiences.

[Joker]

See bolded.

 

I'm sharing our experiences.

 

You went on to say more, including this...

 

That's pretty much what I was just trying to say.  These tweets may not stand out.  I know people might disagree with me, but public schools are honestly awful, nowadays.

 

I want to make sure people know that public schools are not all (probably not even most) awful. I wanted to especially point out that ps isn't to blame for shootings. There is something else going on and we shouldn't put our focus somewhere it doesn't belong because that would just waste time.

[Guest]

You went on to say more, including this...

 

 

I want to make sure people know that public schools are not all (probably not even most) awful. I wanted to especially point out that ps isn't to blame for shootings. There is something else going on and we shouldn't put our focus somewhere it doesn't belong because that would just waste time.

 

Again, I am entitled to my opinion.  I think there is a certain environment/attitude that is prevalent, nowadays, that leads to an increase in certain behaviors.  Parents don't parent their kids anymore because they want to be friends.  A lot (not just public school) plays into this, but I think public school (the environment/attitudes) definitely plays a part.  This opinion is based off of what we have recently witnessed in ps.

[Catwoman]

You went on to say more, including this...

 

 

I want to make sure people know that public schools are not all (probably not even most) awful. I wanted to especially point out that ps isn't to blame for shootings. There is something else going on and we shouldn't put our focus somewhere it doesn't belong because that would just waste time.

 

I didn't get the impression that Jinnah was blaming ps for shootings.

[Guest]

I didn't get the impression that Jinnah was blaming ps for shootings.

Thank you for saying that. It's a certain culture that I'm blaming. Bad boy/bad girl attitudes equal cool/popular. Parents want to be friends with their kids, so they've stopped parenting. They want their kids to be popular, so they encourage this negative behavior. Public school just happens to be a breeding ground for this, and again, it's not all public schools. It's honestly our society at large. Things have changed in society and I think that's what a few posters were getting at, earlier. There is a certain mentality... a certain culture. A lot of things are at play that form this culture, not just one thing. Again, JMO based off of my experiences.

[Carol in Cal.]

Re. Moral Consensus--what I meant by that is that my impression of the other countries that I have visited (Japan, Canada, England, Germany, and French Polynesia) is that there is a regular view of what is right and wrong.  It may vary somewhat from one micro-culture to another, but the basics are pretty universally held. 

 

(PLEASE NOTE, I AM NOT LAUNCHING AN ARGUMENT FOR SOME SORT OF TRADITIONAL MORALITY HERE.)

 

I think that the way that views of right and wrong or even of whether it is possible to have a real right and a real wrong are so varied here in the US, and so weakly taught even by those who do hold pretty strong view of what morality should look like, are pretty different from elsewhere.  I think that media influences (movies and video games) play into this as well, in that to some extent they make the unthinkable somewhat normal.