UPDATE #56: Math Mammoth is making her cry :(

[shinyhappypeople]

My younger (9 yo) DD, the one I rarely worry about, very bright, independent, goes with the flow, etc. is freaking out over math.  We switched to MM from TT last spring and she got progressively grumpier, but I thought she was just in need of a long summer break.  So, fast forward to now:  she is still upset over MM.  She said it gives her headaches, makes her stomach hurt and she feels anxious about math.  This is completely unlike her.   That's my signal that we need to drop it for her and move to something else.

 

I think she's a traditional math kind of girl.  So, what's good for traditional math? She prefers not to do page after page of written work, Saxon is out.  However, she does enjoy playing games.  Actually, while I'm figuring out our next step that's exactly what we're doing: playing math games, RightStart games, board games... etc.  I would switch to McRuffy, but she says it's too babyish.  :confused:

 

So, traditional math.  One (maybe two pages, if the pages aren't too crowded) of written work.  Straightforward explanations that touch on the "why" but don't sit there and make you look at the "why" from twelve different angles.  Prefer using a workbook vs. textbook.  Please shower me with suggestions!!  :001_smile:

 

Oh, and in a weird ironic twist, my older DD who struggles with math asked to use MM and it is working splendidly for her.  She likes the teeny-tiny steps and looking at things from 12 different angles.  She couldn't be happier!  She's understanding math!  Just goes to show that one size curriculum does not fit all.

[sbgrace]

Why did you switch from Teaching Textbooks? Was it working well?

 

This isn't traditional math as it's made from Singapore, but my melt down from just the look of Math Mammoth child is doing well with Math in Focus.

 

It has just the right amount of problems on the page for him.  I had my son look at the text online, and he loved the look. You can see all of the book and workbook online to ask what she thinks. You would need a student textbook and workbook though, not just workbook.

 

I think my son would melt down over CLE, as it has a lot of problems on the page too I think. But a lot of kids who have issues with other programs love it. I don't know what horizons looks like, but maybe it's worth a look?

 

[mommymonster]

My son melted like crazy over MM because there was just too much on a page. McRuffy is a playful, one-page-per-day program that refreshed DS8's interest in math.

[mohini]

Maybe check BJU Math. It's clean and traditional - similar conceptually to MM but with way less on a page. Also you can use the distance learning and she can watch the video - you can see samples here http://vimeopro.com/bjupress/grade-3-distance-learning-sample-videos/video/58550998

 

Another suggestion - worked well for ds at some point would be Developmental Math. It's thorough but follows a different scope and sequence.

Last, I would consider MUS - but personally I think the pages are BORING.

 

We use and love CLE but the lessons are longish - you could always try it though, a unit is only $4.00.

[Tonia]

I'd say horizons or BJU depending on what YOU need, as the teacher. I really like horizons but I'm not a mathy mom and their teacher's manuals are no help to me. I've never used BJU (I did take a serious look at it after we finished the RightStart sequence) but I always hear great things about it.

[ktgrok]

Either go back to TT, or CLE. The lessons are a bit long, but I have a feeling that isn't the issue you are having with Math Mammoth. CLE is spiral, like TT, and very straight forward traditional math, again like TT. 

[sixpence1978]

:iagree:

 

BJU sounds like what you are describing.  It does explain the "whys" of math, but not to the same extent as MM.  It is 1 workbook page front and back.

[Ellie]

Rod and Staff's Progressing With Arithmetic. You can't get more traditional than R&S. :-)

 

There's written work, but it isn't all the same, KWIM? 

[Soror]

I just switched dd to Horizons as she is a more traditional gal as well and I believe it would fit well for what you are talking about. It is 1 page front and back per day, it is colorful, it is spiral and incremental so they stay refreshed on past topics and learn new concepts bit by bit. I will say however that the amount of problems would have probably freaked out ds (but it is not near the amount as MM which he hated every time I tried and I never tried for dd as I know it would be a horrible fit) but he was a totally different kid, he loved the challenge of conceptual and dd does not. She was doing MiF and she liked that well enough but I didn't/don't think it was the best approach long term for her and I really wanted something spiral.

[momtofive]

I'm having the same problem with MM. My 8 year old has cried on every. single. page. so far this year. She's very bright and there isn't anything on these pages she *can't* do. She's normally not like this either (though she is very visual-so maybe that's it?) We've been at it for a month now, and I'm ready to throw in the towel! My next older two aren't liking it either, but haven't been as expressive as the 8 year old. I ended up pulling Singapore off the shelf and now everyone's doing much better. Only problem is I bought the grades 1-6 CD from MM and printed out a bunch of levels in color and spiral bound them. I feel like I wasted a bunch of money on something I can't use now! :(

[shinyhappypeople]

Either go back to TT, or CLE. The lessons are a bit long, but I have a feeling that isn't the issue you are having with Math Mammoth. CLE is spiral, like TT, and very straight forward traditional math, again like TT. 

 

We tried CLE Math and it was and EPIC fail.  She made it halfway through a lesson and just melted down.

 

TT is waaaay too expensive at the moment. 

[Jess4879]

MM didn't work as a core here either.  We switched our 8 year old to BJU math and love it!  We switched our 10 year old to TT and I am supplementing with BJU this year.  I'd like to put her into BJU as a core, but she really likes TT and is doing well with it, so we will see how it goes. 

 

I did print out a bunch of MM word problems and we do a couple daily, so I am at least getting use out of the program and don't feel bad about buying it. 

[ByGrace3]

If Saxon and CLE are out, what about Rod and Staff? Horizons?

 

OR what about trying "buddy math" with MM where you do a problem with her then she does one. Or have you tried MM problems on a white board? Only assigned some of the problems? I certainly wouldn't let my child suffer as you described, but maybe just switching some things up might ease her anxiety?

 

Is she placed too highly in MM? Last year when looked at TT, it looked to run about 2 years behind MM.

[shinyhappypeople]

I'm having the same problem with MM. My 8 year old has cried on every. single. page. so far this year. She's very bright and there isn't anything on these pages she *can't* do. She's normally not like this either (though she is very visual-so maybe that's it?) We've been at it for a month now, and I'm ready to throw in the towel! My next older two aren't liking it either, but haven't been as expressive as the 8 year old. I ended up pulling Singapore off the shelf and now everyone's doing much better. Only problem is I bought the grades 1-6 CD from MM and printed out a bunch of levels in color and spiral bound them. I feel like I wasted a bunch of money on something I can't use now! :(

 

This is exactly our experience.  I wish I could understand what the deal is.  I don't think it's the number of problems, because yesterday I suggested just doing one side of one page and she was still upset, tummy ache, headache... ugh. 

[shinyhappypeople]

If Saxon and CLE are out, what about Rod and Staff? Horizons?

 

OR what about trying "buddy math" with MM where you do a problem with her then she does one. Or have you tried MM problems on a white board? Only assigned some of the problems? I certainly wouldn't let my child suffer as you described, but maybe just switching some things up might ease her anxiety?

 

Is she placed too highly in MM? Last year when looked at TT, it looked to run about 2 years behind MM.

 

No, we're reviewing at the moment.  This is stuff she knows how to do (e.g. addition with carrying) but not the "MM way".  That may be the problem right there.  I don't know....

 

I think we're going to focus on math games and getting her multiplication and division math facts rock solid until I figure out our next step.  I don't want to just jump into another program and experience more of the same. :(

[shinyhappypeople]

Another thought:  has anyone used "Key To..." books as a math spine?  

[wapiti]

No, we're reviewing at the moment.  This is stuff she knows how to do (e.g. addition with carrying) but not the "MM way".  That may be the problem right there.  I don't know...

 

FWIW, there really isn't an "MM way" to do addition with carrying.  There are lessons on the concepts behind the algorithm that lead into the lessons on the traditional algorithm, but ultimately the traditional algorithm is what MM teaches.  If she already has a good understanding of that (especially place value), then perhaps you backed her up much too far.  So yes, too much review is liable to bring tears.  If she just needs a little reminder/practice, then simply assign some, but not all, the problems on a page, but look carefully at which lessons you are using.  If, on the other hand, her understanding were shaky, then that would be a different situation entirely.  If you just want to give her the MM "flavor" before moving her to her correct level, I would probably just start with ch 1 of the level she should be working at, since that should review what she needs to review.

 

"Keys to" start with fractions (AFAIK).  If she's ready for that (I'd guess following 4th gr math, so after long division), then it sounds like she is using materials from MM that are *far too low* for her level.  IMO "Keys to" are better for drill and procedure explanation than for concept explanation, or at least that's the case for *some* concepts (e.g. for division with fractions, there is no concept explanation whatsoever, just the procedure).

 

Certainly the tears would cause me to change something.  I would start by changing what you are assigning in MM before deciding to change programs.

[Chrysalis Academy]

It sounds like you are doing MM3?  Ch 1 is the hardest chapter in the whole book, IMO, for a kid who isn't used to mental math, which she wouldn't have done in TT.  That stuff is challenging - it requires *thinking* about the numbers and what you are doing with them in a whole different way than kids who have done ps math (and I include TT here) are used to.  So maybe it is really hard for her - it's not just addition with carrying, it's also having to really think about place value, about tens and hundreds.  It's hard.  But if she can get it, she will have a much better time in math from here on out.  So I might try something else before bailing on it.  Try going back to the earlier grades and looking for the earliest lessons on mental math, and have her work through those, and gain some confidence with the number bonds and using the "tricks" for adding with 8, adding with 9, etc.  If she can get familiar and comfortable with doing that mental work with easier problems, it won't be so overwhelming with tens and hundreds.

 

I may be way off base here, and if so disregard of course! But this is what my older one struggled with when she started using MM4 when she came home from ps.  (MM4 ch. 1 is even worse/harder than MM3 ch 1!)

 

OTOH, MM3 Ch. 1 has waaaaaaaaaaaayyy too many problems for a kid who already really, truly understands regrouping in addition and subtraction.  I'm making my dd do it all, because she needs the practice with her math facts, but I only make her do one page a day.  For the rest of her math time, I skip ahead and choose new lessons, from later in ch. 1 or in later chapters.  She'd get bored and frustrated if she had to do days and days of addition with regrouping followed by weeks of subtraction with regrouping.  The thing about MM is that it has all the steps, all the practice that a kid could ever need, I think, so as the teacher you have to know that if your kid doesn't need all those problems, it's perfectly fine to skip them.  Lots of them, even!  they are there if you need them, but if the kid already gets it, the incremental nature and the extensive practice can be overkill.

 

 

[sbgrace]

Someone mentioned this upthread, but why not work some problems on the white board? I do a lot of white board work with my son, with one problem at a time. I use his workbook problems. I circle what I want to cover with him, and place a check mark when he gets it correct. If he misses something, I know to revisit that problem or multiple problems from that section. If this is review, you could do a problem or two of each type on the white board and move on.

 

 

[Farrar]

I say this gently - could the issue be one of attitude needing work, instead of math being adjusted? If she is capable and throwing a fit, even on just a page of doable math, I'd consider keeping the math and working on the daughter if it were me.

 

But the OP didn't describe her throwing a fit. She said her dd told her that she feels anxious about math and that it's making her feel physically sick to have to do it. She said she noticed her getting grumpier, but being slightly grumpy is different from throwing a fit. What the OP described sounds like a growing math anxiety, not like a bad attitude toward work or a manipulative child. You cannot "cure" anxiety by forcing a child to buckle down and work harder. That's a strategy sure to backfire.

 

I say switch. Ds did MM for several years and then described that he was feeling like it wasn't right for him anymore - he found it frustrating to use. I wouldn't assume that not liking MM means she needs traditional math. She still might do well with Singapore or MiF or something both of which just have fewer problems on the page.

[IdahoHomeschooler]

Never mind, sorry, didn't read ahead.

[shinyhappypeople]

I say this gently - could the issue be one of attitude needing work, instead of math being adjusted? If she is capable and throwing a fit, even on just a page of doable math, I'd consider keeping the math and working on the daughter if it were me.

 

We have some issues with this in one of our daughters so far - she's very bright and a perfectionist, but dislikes too much work or too much difficulty. Rather than changing our curriculum we worked on teaching her to work through it diligently and with a good attitude, being very methodical. She's little (6) and we still saw immense improvements once she proved to herself she could do it, it wasn't bad, and the consequences of whining/making excuses weren't worth it since mommy would just make her complete it again with a better attitude, anyway ;)

 

It may be she still needs a switch from MM since she might be beyond approaching it neutrally with the previous experiences. But with whatever new program you pick (I'd go for a used TT, myself) it would likely be worth working on her fortitude over the task if you haven't already. Standardized tests and real life don't lessen the workload for us, so I figure school shouldn't either.

 

Those were my thoughts upon reading this, disregard if you've already dealt with the attitude and the material still doesn't fit :). It's one thing if the child isn't capable of learning or performing a task in a given format, especially due to developmental issues or things like dysgraphia. A smart kid who starts making up maladies for dealing with school isn't quite the same thing in my mind, but this is an area where different teachers have different solutions.

 

Good luck finding something that works if you pursue that route :)

 

The thing is, I don't think she's "making up maladies."   When she wants to get out of work she turns into a miniature used car salesman and tries to negotiate me into submission.  It's equally parts annoying and hilarious, and utterly predictable.  I recognize it and deal with it (and internally roll my eyes and try not to laugh, because it's so funny)  This kind of consistent anxiety and painful physical response is way outside of her normal behavior, which is way I'm really sitting up and taking notice.

 

I could probably find a way to force this to work, but I don't see the point.  She's never given me issues like this before.

 

I kind of wonder if DD's drowning in the details of MM.  I wonder if she needs a cleaner, more straightforward approach. 

[Justmeandyou]

IMO, Teaching Textbooks is very light and it is easy to manipulate so that the kids don't actually learn the concepts, they just guess and move on.  Math Mammoth is a pretty rigorous program and you have to know your stuff.  Is it possible she is not used to having to work at math or that she had not really learned the information via TT?

[Soror]

Fwiw this was my ds with Right Start E last year, although he doesn't always love school he is not a complainer and he always loved math, however as we continued on with RSE he got to where he was going on about how he hated math. My kid who was a math lover now was telling me every day that he hated it. My only regret is that I didn't drop it sooner in hindsight we should have never started Level E. This spawned my relaxed math thread because I persisted with RSE too long it took some work to bring our enjoyment in math, in that time we continued with some BA, lots of math puzzles, games, LoF etc. We read books about math, we talked about, we didn't push it off the schedule but I approached it in an entirely different way. As I said my only regret is that I didn't listen to him and my intuition sooner, you're not changing willy nilly, this isn't some child's tantrum or whim. THIS is part of the beauty of hs'ing, you are the mother and teacher and you can choose what materials you use.

 

I know I prefer to learn from some teachers and curriculums over others and a self-directed adult learner that is what I do, within reasons and our limitations(time, money, and keeping with educational expectations and goals) I give my child the same respect. Now that doesn't mean that they pick everything (although some do give their kids complete educational control and it works well for them) but certainly if they absolutely hate something then I will consider their opinion and try to figure out a solution to meet my goals and their desires. 

 

I will add as well that my dd1 is much more of a complainer, she is dramatic, her complaints are not weighed as heavily as ds' complaints. Again this is a plus of being a mother and a teacher, I know her personality and I keep that in mind when making decisions, just as you have with your child.

[Curlymom]

I had the same problem with my 9 year old. I like how thorough MM is, but she had such a problem with it that it was causing tears and she started hiding her math notebook from me.

 

Not wanting to completely buy a new curriculum, I switched her to MEP a few weeks ago and things have been going much better. I think the layout of MM was stressing her out. She does one page of MEP a day, and I add in the hands in work from the lesson plans so we do whiteboard work and oral math. About once a week I incorporate a few pages from MM that correspond to the MEP lesson, but only the ones that seem less cluttered.

[BlessedMom]

Horizons sounds like it might be a good fit,

[mommymonster]

Another option we used was to copy problems out of the curriculum onto graphing paper (3/4 in squares), but only a few problems on a page. It helps with lining up the problems, and has more white space to lessen the visual overload.

[Justmeandyou]

This of course is not true.

 

What is not true? My opinion that TT is very light? 

[ByGrace3]

This of course is not true.

Plenty of people are of the same opinion as this poster...so your opinion is just that. As is hers. There is no "of course" about opinions.

[mohini]

I also think TT is light. We use it 1 grade level ahead as a supplement and my dc's are not particularly mathy.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Plenty of people are of the same opinion as this poster...so your opinion is just that. As is hers. There is no "of course" about opinions.

 

Well said.

[shinyhappypeople]

Plenty of people are of the same opinion as this poster...so your opinion is just that. As is hers. There is no "of course" about opinions.

 

Totally depends on the kid, but... yeah.  I had to seriously supplement and support older DD last year and recently discovered that she can't subtract w/regrouping unless she's already aware - based on the context of the lesson - that she needs to regroup.   :eek:

 

OTOH, some kids do brilliantly with TT, so I don't judge.  

[shinyhappypeople]

Teaching Textbooks is not "easy to manipulate".  Nor is the problem of failing to learn the material inherent to the curricula.  Children using TT do indeed "learn the concepts".

 

Across the board bashing of TT is unhelpful and is also tiresome.  Loads of people successfully use the program with their kids.  Not all approaches work for everyone.  MM isnt the failure for the OP.  Its just not the right fit.  No need to bash something just bc it didn't work for you!

 

Agree!  MM is not right for younger DD, but older DD is doing very well with it.  Go figure.  And younger DD had the opposite experience with TT than older DD.  I like the suggestion is TWTM about occasionally pulling problems from a different math book to check understanding.  

[KAM]

I am in the same boat (9 yo DS) and I decided to try to stick with MM and just change how we did it. We do three pages a day, but I do a lot of it orally. I also work through some of the problems with him, then circle several for him to do on his own. And then we skip some too. If you read the FAQ on the website, it says that if your child "gets it" you don't need to do all of the problems. For now, this is working pretty well. I will not say he loves math, but he tolerates it fine. I am undecided if we will switch after this level or not.

[EKS]

It may not be the math itself, but the format.  Just looking at MM makes me feel like melting down.  

[AdventuresinHomeschooling]

SWB says that when a child is producing tears over math there is something so wrong that she can't even explain it.  Switch curriculums.  In the older years, Saxon is 25-30 problems per set, and there is variety.  Horizons, Rod and Staff, BJU and even A Beka are all more traditional options at math.  Ray's is another option.  Singapore is workbook based if you think that approach would work for her.  I'd review them all seriously and evaluate their best fit for your daughter.  We can all weigh in with our opinions, but you know your daughter best.  I'd pick something that suits her but also that stretches her a bit.  

[linguistmama]

I ended up switching dd9 to Rightstart E this year because it has fewer worksheets than any other program I was able to see (besides something on the computer) and I was satisfied that it would be solid instruction. She used MM, SM and Saxon in the past and really hated math worksheets. Math is going very well for her this year so we plan to continue to G in the future.

[Soror]

It may not be the math itself, but the format.  Just looking at MM makes me feel like melting down.  

No joke, it is kind of known to be visually hard for a lot of kids (and adults), so I don't see this as surprising.

[EKS]

No joke, it is kind of known to be visually hard for a lot of kids (and adults), so I don't see this as surprising.

 

I would think that the author would have heard about this by now.  It would be amazing if she could come out with a reformatted version.

[Ad astra]

nm

[thegeyser]

I had issues when trying to use MM with my son in the past. This year we are using it, but I don't use it traditionally. I print out 4 different sections and start cutting them up. I make sure he does about a half page (depending on the topic or difficulty) from each section, so he isn't doing 4 pages of the same thing. This has seemed to work for him, and I think we'll be able to finish Grade 5 by Christmas and start Grade 6 in Jan. We had spent Grades 1-4 using RightStart and weren't sure where to go next. I think the layout can be extremely overwhelming for some kids. 

[thegeyser]

dup post - deleted

 

[mommymilkies]

MM also makes us cry.  Yes, us.  I've cried, too. :/

 

If there are tears, give something else a go.  

[Ruby Rose]

We did MM In 1 and 2. It was a nightmare. For 3rd we took a break from structured math and made it fun with Miquon, games etc. this year we are back to structure with CLE. https://ctcmath.com/purchase/homeschool/ If she likes working on the computer, check out CTC Math. A 12 month subscription is $79. That is what we will switch to or supplement if CLE doesn't work.

[momacacia]

Not to hijack this thread, but I'm actually considering MM fir at least the Ker to start in, instead if RS, because of it bring less teacher-intensive. I've heard you can skip some problems and do the more difficult ones at the end of a lesson. If those go well, then move on....

 

Does that sound like a good us of MM?

[scootiepie]

We had some tears with MM3 but I'm not ready to give up.    I need to switch it to a time a day when his mind is fresh, plus I want him to learn how to work through

subjects that aren't necessarily fun or easy.    He can do it when he's focused and fresh; otherwise, I wouldn't feel this way.   I've also found he responds well to a little

hand holding and talking through the problems.   I'd prefer him work independently but sitting with him discussing the problems help me pinpoint where the frustration is

coming from.   Many times it's just lack of focus and my presence right there keeps him on task.

 

I'm sort of looking around just in case tears happen repeatedly.    One thing I would consider is Beast Academy.  

Check out the samples online, and do the practice test (I thought it looked challenging).    I would have to be at a point of desperation to switch because of the price, but I do like the looks of it.  

[mamabear2three]

I tried MM 3 separate times with my DD... tears each time no matter how I tried it. 

 

I switched to horizons (and am manipulating the curriculum to my daughters needs - it is still too repetitive) and it is working better for us. 

 

 

The biggest thing I had to figure out was that I needed to use a curriculum to suit my daughter's needs and not just make her do the curriculum as written. That said, even changing up how I did MM didn't help, but I have been able to work out Horizons without tears. Maybe it's the colors and fewer problems per page?

[mohini]

Teaching Textbooks is not "easy to manipulate".  Nor is the problem of failing to learn the material inherent to the curricula.  Children using TT do indeed "learn the concepts".

 

Across the board bashing of TT is unhelpful and is also tiresome.  Loads of people successfully use the program with their kids.  Not all approaches work for everyone.  MM isnt the failure for the OP.  Its just not the right fit.  No need to bash something just bc it didn't work for you!

 

Calling a curriculum "light" is not "bashing" it. Many people, myself included, read this forum to hear other HS'ers opinions and experiences with particular curricula. I have made most of my curricular decisions based on research I have done here. I think it is valuable to hear other people's impressions of the depth and scope of different programs. Of course, it does not always mean that they are right and certainly, a program that is effective for one child may not be for another. For us, TT has been a wonderful supplement that my dc's love. It's very high motivation, well organized and easy to use. That doesn't change the fact that I would categorize it as "light" in terms of how efficiently and deeply it covers topics and how much review is included and how its scope and sequence is organized. My kids have less retention with TT and a harder time applying concepts introduced there to other situations. That's my kids, not everybody's. Compared to other programs that I have used TT seems slower and more periphery. That's my opinion - but maybe my comments will be helpful for others who are researching the program. I am not "bashing" the program. I actually happen to think it is a great program just a bit light.

 

Like the previous poster said about the EM books, some people may turn their noses up at them but that doesn't make them any less effective for her child. Her comments about the efficacy of those materials in her home may help another parent discover that the EM materials are perfect for their own child. Comments that people make about their impressions of TT may also help other parents. We are all just being honest about our experiences and impressions, not "judging" other people's academic decisions for their own children. Obviously they know best what is right for their own learners and any curriculum is the right one when kids are learning from it. I think shaming people for their opinions and causing controversy where there is none is "unhelpful." But that's just my opinion.

[ktgrok]

Just want to say that if a material is light or not also depends on how well the student can understand and retain it. My son used Math Mammoth for a few years, and use Teaching Textbooks for a year. He retained light years more, and learned so much more, from TT, because the spiral method worked for him. So although people consider MM rigorous and TT light, he actually learned much more with TT. 

[shinyhappypeople]

UPDATE:  OK, so for the time being we're going back to the last thing that worked.

 

Quick timeline (K-3): McRuffy (but she started overtaking big sister so we switched her to....) Dreambox (awesome), mish-mash, Teaching Textbooks (too easy for her, wrong level?), "DIY Math" (she was generally quite happy), then MM.

 

The switch to MM was supposed to be temporary, to address a specific conceptual gap, but it was so much easier for me and she seemed to do okay with it at first... until she wasn't doing okay with it.  And here we are today.

 

So, we're backing up to DIY math with lots and lots of games.

 

I'm a little bummed because DIY math is much more intensive for me.  But, if I can nip her math anxiety in the bud, it's all worth it.  I'm going to search the web for living math resources, read through the Right Start math games book again, check out Family Math, pull a scope & sequence from my NtK books plus other sources and move forward.  I'm thinking of using a sketch book as a Waldorf-esque math journal.  Thinking... thinking... thinking...  and SO open to ideas!!

 

I don't think this is a permanent resting point.  I'm considering McRuffy, but it's $$$$ and I don't want to make another big switch just to have it backfire, kwim?