Tell me this is all for the best... UPDATE#2

[Matryoshka]

UPDATE in post 23...

and... another in post 28!  Unbelievable!

But wait, there's more!!  Post 48...

 

************************

So, my original plan was to sign dd16 up for freshman comp at the CC.  A friend had had her dd take the Honors section there, and said it was a great class.  Dd loves classes with discussion and analysis. So, she took the Accuplacer and indeed tested into the Honors section.  Which filled the day before she took the test. :glare:   The advisor guy suggested we email the teacher and ask to let one more person in, and she said her union contract wouldn't allow it.  Advisor guy said she was being a jerk because people do it all the time, but he couldn't do anything about it. 

 

Dd wants to take another course in the spring with Eng 101 as a Prereq,  So, then Plan B (and my panicky post the other day about how to round out an 11th English credit - I had figured I could have her take the CC class and read some extra novels and call it good).   Another friend had her ds take the CLEP and the CC gave him credit for Eng 101 and 102.  So, I signed her up for the CLEP.  Just happened to look at the website as I was looking what books to buy for her other class, and for jollies checked Eng 101, and someone must have dropped it, because now there's an opening again!  And of course the CLEP fee is non-refundable. :banghead:

 

So, tell me this is all for the best.  She has a fairly heavy schedule  - AP Bio, AP Spanish, Alg2 (all online), US History & English (@ home at this point),  Anthropology @ CC, and she wants to study Icelandic (found a biweekly tutor), Dutch (I think casually with Duolingo), and Arabic(!) (she's asking for a tutor for this too, maybe Harari?)  Those extra languages will probably be fine as 1/2 credit each or so, and Dutch could just be for fun honestly, but I have a feeling she's going to want to spend a lot of time on those.  She's pretty much talked me into letting her drop the really time-sucking post-AP German course in favor of just reading some books in German - she'd rather study the new languages...

 

Tell me It's going to be okay.  It's good she can get the Prereq out of the way without a huge writing course this fall.  It will give her more time for the AP and language courses and keep her from burning out.  The homemade English and the Write Guide tutor will be enough to prepare her for AP Lit next year.  ....right?

 

Or am I wrong and I should sign her up for the Honors Eng 101 class before it fills again and eat the $80 CLEP fee...?   Or am I being totally neurotic to even be worrying about this at all?  :leaving:

 

 

 

 

[KarenNC]

Can you apply the CLEP fee to a CLEP for another subject?

[Matryoshka]

Can you apply the CLEP fee to a CLEP for another subject?

 

I have no idea.  You pay right on the College Board website - there's no place to "do" anything with the charge.  Not sure what other CLEP she'd take even if it were possible (open to ideas)? 

 

Do you think I should have her take the CC course??  On the one hand, I really want her to develop very strong writing skills - it's not just about the money.  On the other hand, her writing is I think fairly good already, hence testing into honors, and she'll take the AP next year, as well as other CC classes she'll have to write in... could she just get the same skills that way??  Do you think she could indeed handle the load with the CC class in the mix (that was the original plan, after all, but she asked to add those 'extra' languages kind of at the last minute... she spent a few weeks with her friend in the NL who's learning 5 or 8 languages, and well, and I think she was um, inspired...)  The class she wants to take in the spring is on Mythology.

 

[Trilliums]

I think it will be fine the way you have it.  She will be OK whichever way you go.   I know with DS we were often at the mercy of the scheduling gods.  We just had to accept DS's fate.   :laugh:

 

I think another CC class might be over doing it.  Let her stick with what she has for that added extra bit of flexibility.  Now, if she felt strongly about taking the class, then I'd reconsider.  But as it is...you made the best decision you could based on the info you had.  Nothing to feel bad about for that!

[Michelle_NC]

If you want her to take the cc class, my suggestion would be to show up for the first class and ask the instructor to add her if someone doesn't show up. Odds are that several will drop the class and never attend.

[Matryoshka]

If you want her to take the cc class, my suggestion would be to show up for the first class and ask the instructor to add her if someone doesn't show up. Odds are that several will drop the class and never attend.

 

Well, that's what the teacher suggested when the class was full (although she added that she thought it was unlikely as it was an honors class) - but now someone's already dropped out and it isn't full anymore - I could just sign her up.  But I'd still be out the $80 CLEP fee. 

 

And now I'm not even sure if signing her up is the right way to go, and maybe just CLEPing out of it is fortuitous - I wouldn't have thought of it if the class hadn't been full...

 

[Matryoshka]

I think it will be fine the way you have it.  She will be OK whichever way you go.   I know with DS we were often at the mercy of the scheduling gods.  We just had to accept DS's fate.   :laugh:

 

I think another CC class might be over doing it.  Let her stick with what she has for that added extra bit of flexibility.  Now, if she felt strongly about taking the class, then I'd reconsider.  But as it is...you made the best decision you could based on the info you had.  Nothing to feel bad about for that!

 

Thank you. :D  See, this is what I need to hear.  Slap me upside the head and tell me to stop this :willy_nilly:  and it will all be fine and everything will work out for the best...  :chillpill:

[Cera]

As long as you are sure she will pass the CLEP I would call it good.  (since she has to have that credit for the spring class)

[klmama]

Can you enroll and then withdraw before classes start without losing any money? If so, I would enroll her to save the spot, and then get a CLEP study guide to practice with to be sure she really could pass it with a high enough score before making my final decision. I assume the plan is to transfer credits from the community college to a 4-year college, right? You might want to check out the most likely colleges' websites to find out if they even accept that particular CLEP and what their minimum score is. If they don't accept it or her score isn't high enough for their standards, she might be stuck taking English 101 again at the 4-year school. If that were the case, it might be better to just take it at the CC now.

[Matryoshka]

Can you enroll and then withdraw before classes start without losing any money? If so, I would enroll her to save the spot, and then get a CLEP study guide to practice with to be sure she really could pass it with a high enough score before making my final decision. I assume the plan is to transfer credits from the community college to a 4-year college, right? You might want to check out the most likely colleges' websites to find out if they even accept that particular CLEP and what their minimum score is. If they don't accept it or her score isn't high enough for their standards, she might be stuck taking English 101 again at the 4-year school. If that were the case, it might be better to just take it at the CC now.

 

I have definitely thought about enrolling her if I can get the money back if she passes the CLEP.  Gotta go look at the reg form for her other class, I think the policy was on there.

 

I'm reasonably sure she can pass the CLEP.... but I would like her to take some practice tests (which she doesn't want to to 'yet' - wants to wait till Monday...) whether the credits would transfer to a 4-year past the CC is a good question.  I'm planning on having her take AP Lit next year, which I think many places also gets you out of freshman comp?  But of course she'd need to score well on that, too...

[Trilliums]

I was thinking about this last night.   It is keeping me from stressing out about writing my son's transcripts!  LOL I am transposing my worries onto other homeschoolers!

 

 

Does the tutor cost more than the CLEP fee and the CC class fee?
 

If you eat the $80 CLEP fee and she takes the class, would it actually be less money?

Here students can DE for some classes for free,so I am not sure if you have to pay for her CC class.

Just one more thing to consider...although by now, maybe the CC class is full, which may be a blessing in disguise.

Oh my, so many possibilities.  I know exactly how you feel!!

I would try to go with the student's preference, but also know that things are likely to work out as you have many bases covered.

 

:grouphug:

 

 

[Matryoshka]

I was thinking about this last night.   It is keeping me from stressing out about writing my son's transcripts!  LOL I am transposing my worries onto other homeschoolers!

 

 

Does the tutor cost more than the CLEP fee and the CC class fee?

 

If you eat the $80 CLEP fee and she takes the class, would it actually be less money?

Here students can DE for some classes for free,so I am not sure if you have to pay for her CC class.

Just one more thing to consider...although by now, maybe the CC class is full, which may be a blessing in disguise.

Oh my, so many possibilities.  I know exactly how you feel!!

I would try to go with the student's preference, but also know that things are likely to work out as you have many bases covered.

 

:grouphug:

 

Thank you for helping me stress! :lol:

 

The CC class will actually cost about $275, plus the book is another $75-100 or I could rent it for $35.  Sadly no free dual enrollment here. :glare:

 

The Write Guide tutor is shared with my other dd, so it doesn't really cost more - I'll be paying for that anyway; younger dd would just have to write more if older dd doesn't use the tutor as much...  (the way it works is a family gets one student interaction per day with the tutor - doesn't matter if it's the same kid every day, or they take turns).

 

LOL I know what you mean about if I go back and look and the class is full it could be a blessing in disguise!  Almost wish I hadn't looked last night!  I did look into their refund policy, and as long as she dropped the class again before Sept. 2, they'd refund in full, so I'm tempted just to sign her up as a backup...?  If it hasn't filled again... :001_rolleyes:

 

Meanwhile my kids are saying, "mom, stop thinking about stupid school and finish sewing our cosplays already!" (Comicon tomorrow... :D )

[Sebastian (a lady)]

A couple things I would consider in a similar situation.

 

Is the in person classroom environment something that would be of benefit, either because it suits her learning style or because she doesn't have much experience with that type of setting.

 

Would this provide a source for an academic letter of recommendation?  [This was one of the driving forces behind our pursuing CC for my oldest son this fall.]

 

How is she with self-study?  Would it be better to be assessed over a full semester or in an all or nothing one day test? 

 

Is the CC class a prerequisite for a course she'd want to take another semester?  Would the CLEP fill that need?

 

Would either option have better results for transferring the credit to a 4 year school? This could be an issue with either course.  Does the CC have good articulation agreements with schools she's likely to transfer to or apply to for 4 year schools?  Do those target 4 year schools accept CLEP? 

[Michelle_NC]

CLEP just recently changed their refund policy - you can get your $$ back up to 7 days from the time of purchase (if that applies to you).

http://clep.collegeboard.org/changes-refund-policy-clep-exams-and-study-materials

[mom2att]

I would have her take the CLEP.  She sounds like a very strong student and if that is the case, chances are that her SAT scores will test her out of freshman comp anyway.  And if you're worried about her transfer credit, it seems to me that taking a course with a freshman comp pre req next semester (after the CLEP test) sorta helps take care of that.

[Running the race]

You can also use the CLEP money for any CLEP test she might want to take within a specified time. I think it is six months.

[Corraleno]

If it's too late for a refund, you could use the CLEP fee for US History, since you're doing that at home (and I assume have no plans to repeat it as an AP). If she's going to be taking AP English anyway, then the CLEP is likely redundant, plus more colleges accept AP than CLEP. Even the colleges that accept some CLEPs often don't accept them all, so AP or CC are both safer bets if you want the most options for credit at a 4 yr school.

[Matryoshka]

You can also use the CLEP money for any CLEP test she might want to take within a specified time. I think it is six months.

 

Do you know how I'd let them know if I want to move the CLEP money to a different exam?  I didn't see anywhere to do that on the website (in 'my account' it just says which exam she's registered for, no 'edit' button or anything...)

 

[Running the race]

Do you know how I'd let them know if I want to move the CLEP money to a different exam?  I didn't see anywhere to do that on the website (in 'my account' it just says which exam she's registered for, no 'edit' button or anything...)

 

 

I'm sorry; I'm not sure. I remember that I could have changed it this past spring when I was going back and forth between two different exams, but I never needed to actually change it. I hope you can figure it out.

[Barbara H]

You do have seven days to cancel the CLEP and since you are unsure maybe that's a good idea as she could always register again later if she decides to test.

 

I would factor her college goals into the decision making. Is she a junior? If so this the last year for a community college class to be really helpful for the purposes of college admissions and scholarships. While plenty of kids do just fine without dual enrollment and it certainly isn't mandatory, it can be helpful in terms of letters of recommendation and a demonstration your child is mature and does well in a classroom environment. Writing is also a core skill for college success and a good writing class can be worth a lot.

 

This from the College Board website might also be helpful. If a test-taker registers for the wrong exam, can it be changed?
If a test-taker registers for the wrong exam, he or she must log in to My Account, change the exam title and print an updated registration ticket.  Within My Account, the test-taker can go to the My Exams page and select the exam title to change.  Then follow the steps to change the exam title.

[Matryoshka]

So, last night I decided to sign her up for the class, since apparently I have 7 days to get money back on the CLEP (and she could try some sample tests in the meantime) and I could also get money back for the course if she does well (which I do expect she will, but insurance, y'know...)

 

The site wasn't working last night - just sat there thinking.  Went on this morning, and the class is full again.  So, yeah.  Guess I can still check the site from time to time - someone else could drop out... or hopefully she'll do really well on the CLEP and she can just take the other CC classes and all's well...

[at the beach]

If you are going to have her do AP English next year, it might be helpful to read Maya Inspektor's comments (no personal experience with her courses but she consistently gets great reviews on this board) on being prepared for her class in her course description on the PAHS website. My daughter took AP Lit with Lili Serbicki this past year, loved the class, and got a 5 on the exam. Prior to AP English, our English studies were pretty unstructured. We included lots of reading and discussion. We added in some WaH essay and research paper workshops and did some grammar review. The summer before AP English, my daughter took a summer lit intensive with Lili to get an idea of what the AP class would be like. It was a great lead-in to AP English. If you are planning on an AP English class next year, IMO you can certainly skip cc English and CLEP this year. As Jackie said, those courses might be redundant. The CLEP exam, cc class, and AP exam score might all be considered equivalent. 

[Matryoshka]

So... she took the CLEP yesterday.  Any idea how long till one gets the scores?

 

And... of course, when I got home last night, another spot had finally opened up in the class (I've been checking from time to time, just for jollies).  So I signed her up - I can get a full refund if she withdraws before the first class.  Now I'll just have to decide what to do if she passes the CLEP - should she take the class or call it good?  I guess I'll have to leave it up to her. 

 

On the argument of it being redundant if she takes AP Lit next year... I see that, but I'm also thinking lots of kids take AP Lang followed by AP Lit - the same could be argued there.  This class would be more like Lang than Lit - there's a 2nd semester course that is more Lit based, but I'll probably have her skip that either way (especially if she gets 6 credits for the CLEP on top of it).  Should I just get over having 'wasted' $100 on the CLEP?

[8filltheheart]

So... she took the CLEP yesterday.  Any idea how long till one gets the scores?

 

 

 

She should have gotten the scores immediately upon completing the test.  Ds took the American history CLEP just a couple of days before leaving for uni and knew when he was walking out of the testing office that he would earn college credit for the score b/c he knew the minimum score he had to make and was significantly above that.

[Matryoshka]

She should have gotten the scores immediately upon completing the test.  Ds took the American history CLEP just a couple of days before leaving for uni and knew when he was walking out of the testing office that he would earn college credit for the score b/c he knew the minimum score he had to make and was significantly above that.

 

I meant to ask that of the admin person when we signed out, and I forgot.  Don't even know how to contact that person now.  Sigh.

 

Would she have seen the score on the screen when she was finished?  How would the computer score the two essays?

[8filltheheart]

I meant to ask that of the admin person when we signed out, and I forgot.  Don't even know how to contact that person now.  Sigh.

 

Would she have seen the score on the screen when she was finished?  How would the computer score the two essays?

 

Sorry.  I have no idea.   I wasn't involved in the process at all.   I only know the results.

 

Does she have a college board acct?   I wonder if the scores is available there??

[Matryoshka]

Sorry.  I have no idea.   I wasn't involved in the process at all.   I only know the results.

 

Does she have a college board acct?   I wonder if the scores is available there??

 

Well, that's a good idea... I'll go have her check to see if they're there.

 

ETA: Nope, not there... :glare:

[Matryoshka]

So, she did end up getting more than enough of a score on the CLEP to skip Freshman Comp, but since she got into the Honors class after all, I figured it was worth checking out, in case there was the chance of some good reading/discussion and meaty assignments.  It's not like the CLEP really shows mastery of much of anything...

 

She had her first class today.  Apparently the readings will come from a book of short stories entitled I Am a Magical Teenage Princess (I am not making this up.  This is a real book, that they are using as the sole 'literature' for a purportedly College-level writing class).  Some of the specific readings will include Tupac and My Non-thug Life, The Enormous Television Set, and Bongo the Space Ape. :svengo:

 

Methinks I'll save my money, have her drop the class, and go back to the plan of homemade American Lit...  We can get a full refund as long as she drops the class by next Tuesday...

[Luckymama]

:eek:

 

Whoa.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

So, she did end up getting more than enough of a score on the CLEP to skip Freshman Comp, but since she got into the Honors class after all, I figured it was worth checking out, in case there was the chance of some good reading/discussion and meaty assignments.  It's not like the CLEP really shows mastery of much of anything...

 

She had her first class today.  Apparently the readings will come from a book of short stories entitled I Am a Magical Teenage Princess (I am not making this up.  This is a real book, that they are using as the sole 'literature' for a purportedly College-level writing class).  Some of the specific readings will include Tupac and My Non-thug Life, The Enormous Television Set, and Bongo the Space Ape. :svengo:

 

Methinks I'll save my money, have her drop the class, and go back to the plan of homemade American Lit...  We can get a full refund as long as she drops the class by next Tuesday...

 

:huh:  Speechless.

 

[8filltheheart]

Unfortunately,that is on par with our CC experiences. We have even had blogging be the big "English" writing project.

[Grantmom]

Wow.  No wonder we homeschool.

[Matryoshka]

All I can think now is, I guess it really was all for the best!  She'll get 6 credits for the CLEP (covering both Eng 101 and 102), and if this is really the content, good riddance!

 

A friend's dd took this course from another teacher (also honors level) and it sounded much better.  Unfortunately, that teacher is now on maternity leave.  I think this other teacher has only taught the 'regular' level in the past?... dd said something about how she was requiring 15 whole pages more of reading from the Honors level.  Whoop-dee-doo.  And she gets awesome reviews on Rate My Prof... which just goes to show that often those great reviews are code for "this teacher will give you an A if your warm body shows up at class occasionally..."

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Can anybody tell me, then, why so many people on these forums and elsewhere in Classical Homeschooling World insist that CC is such a great idea?

[Lolly]

Can anybody tell me, then, why so many people on these forums and elsewhere in Classical Homeschooling World insist that CC is such a great idea?

 

Because much like 4 year institutions, it really just depends on the one in question. The CC here, small town, is exceptional. Others an hour away in the big city, not so much. Plus, even though they use a book with...an interesting title...the instruction and learning in the class could actually be quite good. Not all good learning has to come from classic literature. (Though that title does make me cringe!) 

 

From a mom who has not used dual enrollment at the local CC, but does kind of like her kids starting their journey outside of the house there anyway.

[Leav97]

Can anybody tell me, then, why so many people on these forums and elsewhere in Classical Homeschooling World insist that CC is such a great idea?

 

It depends a lot on the local CC.  Ours is good but not excellent.  It can be a good step for kids getting used to an outside class well still having Mom and Dad around to help with scheduling and encouragement.  Some states also pay for all or part of the classes.

 

Depends on the kid and the CC.

[8filltheheart]

Can anybody tell me, then, why so many people on these forums and elsewhere in Classical Homeschooling World insist that CC is such a great idea?

 

Well, I am not one that does.  We have had kids take classes in 3 different CC systems and I have not been impressed with any of the classes they took with the exception of an art history class that one of our ds's took.   We have only had the kids take non-major classes.  

 

We have been satisfied with the kids have taken DE at local universities.  That is our first choice option for DE.

[mommymilkies]

Can anybody tell me, then, why so many people on these forums and elsewhere in Classical Homeschooling World insist that CC is such a great idea?

Because they are for many people? Just like not all universities are great.  My brother goes to U of I C-U and his classes have 300+ students a lot of the time and are taught by teaching assistants-many of which don't speak English well.  He has a hard time because of this and has had to ask my dh who teaches at a CC for help.  Dh's CC classes never have more than 30. 

[Teachin'Mine]

Honestly I can't imagine a CLEP test being a good substitute for Honors Comp I and II.   Dd took both at CC and each one brought her to a higher level of writing.  Then again, we researched the professors and she chose the ones who were most demanding and gave good critiques.   They were excellent teachers and tough graders which dd found to be a great combo and influenced her college choice as well.  Don't know what her readings were, but the focus was not on reading, but writing.  So many of the topics were very creative and gave the students some great material on which to write.  In college, literature classes are separate.

 

Apparently CC quality varies greatly, so those with lower quality can't fathom how those with high quality can rave about the experience.

[OneStepAtATime]

Agree that this really depends on the CC.  And the status of the school when the classes are/were taken.  Our local CC was terrible for many, many years.  They have completely restructured, are making a huge concerted effort to improve and expand their offerings and bring in better quality professors.   It is turning around.  Not excellent by any means, but definitely a WHOLE lot better than it was 10 years ago.  And it appears to continue to be improving.  Before it was kind of the joke school.  Now people are starting to take it a lot more seriously.   But 10 years ago?  Nope, credits weren't worth the paper they were printed on.

[G5052]

Yes, it varies so much.  I used to not recommend English 101 at the one I work for because everything in the first semester book was about s*x.  Well, not quite everything, but certainly hitting the lower notes of humankind.

 

Now they use an actual rhetoric book that I would feel comfortable using at home if I didn't already have one I'm using.  The passages are a mix of class and modern, fiction and non-fiction.  Very enjoyable to read and use.  I have no problem recommending that class now.

[Matryoshka]

Honestly I can't imagine a CLEP test being a good substitute for Honors Comp I and II.   Dd took both at CC and each one brought her to a higher level of writing.  Then again, we researched the professors and she chose the ones who were most demanding and gave good critiques.   They were excellent teachers and tough graders which dd found to be a great combo and influenced her college choice as well.  Don't know what her readings were, but the focus was not on reading, but writing.  So many of the topics were very creative and gave the students some great material on which to write.  In college, literature classes are separate.

 

Well, see, that's exactly what I was thinking, and that's why I signed her up for the class even though she'd taken and passed the CLEP.  But now I'm kinda horrified.  She will take AP Lit next year, so hopefully she'll get 'demanding and good critiques' there... 

 

[SkateLeft]

I had to look up the book I Am a Magical Teenage Princess. It appears to have a dominatrix on the cover. :001_huh: That's just wacky.

[at the beach]

In case anyone is interested, here is a link to the publisher's page of book in question. There's info on the author and his credentials as well. http://chomupress.com/our-books/i-am-a-magical-teenage-princess/

 

 

[Teachin'Mine]

Well, see, that's exactly what I was thinking, and that's why I signed her up for the class even though she'd taken and passed the CLEP.  But now I'm kinda horrified.  She will take AP Lit next year, so hopefully she'll get 'demanding and good critiques' there... 

 

If it's a good AP class she should get good feedback on her writing and analytical skills as pertains to the literature.  It's too bad the regular honors professor isn't teaching this semester.  Usually the honors courses have the best professors.   The "substitute professor" may be using the same materials he had used in the regular comp course instead of having to familiarize himself with the ones used in the honors course. 

[Matryoshka]

If it's a good AP class she should get good feedback on her writing and analytical skills as pertains to the literature.  It's too bad the regular honors professor isn't teaching this semester.  Usually the honors courses have the best professors.   The "substitute professor" may be using the same materials he had used in the regular comp course instead of having to familiarize himself with the ones used in the honors course. 

 

This is exactly my suspicion, especially with the comment that they're reading "15 pages more" than the non-honors class.  Which I'm guessing means she's assigning two witty pop-culture short stories instead of just one per week...

 

In case anyone is interested, here is a link to the publisher's page of book in question. There's info on the author and his credentials as well. http://chomupress.co...enage-princess/

 

Thanks - just looked at the full list of stories in the compilation.  Guess I should be relieved she didn't assign Wonder Woman's Tampon...

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I think, like any CC or university experience, the perceived quality of the program can be entirely dependent on the specific class, section, and instructor.

 

I might find the selections in an English class odd but a different course, section, or instructor could change my view entirely.  As could choosing a math, science or foreign language class. 

 

There are many positive aspects to choosing DE courses; getting credit that can transfer to university, having real class room experience, being taught a subject by someone who can answer the students questions (yup-I admit it-there are subjects in which my kids will pass my teaching ability, they will need experts at that point), non-Mom grades on a transcript, and the list goes on.

 

When it comes to CC and DE credits it pays to be a wise consumer and do your research.  While you may discover that you want to avoid a particular department or instructor others could be great choices.

[Matryoshka]

Okay, just had to share this latest tidbit...  Dd officially dropped the class on Tues, but before we did she attended a second time - she had a class right before it anyway, and they'd done an in-class essay, and I thought maybe she'd get feedback and I was curious what the teacher would say.  Well, no feedback was given. 

 

But, she did give them the first assignment - to make a Meme and post it on Reddit or 4chan, and whoever got the most views or likes would get an A grade.  :001_huh: :blink: :svengo:

I asked dd how this could be a writing assignment.  She said the teacher said it was to help them 'understand internet culture".  Because that's what young adults need to learn in a college writing class, rather than, say, how to write an academic paper.  :confused1:  

 

Honors. College. Composition.  Just.... no.

[maize]

Sounds like dropping the class was a wise choice!

[Mom22ns]

:lol:  :svengo: