S/O Money thread: Parents who resent their adult children's financial success?

[SKL]

I will say I do have a friend raising his grandkids who has struggled most of his life.  His mother is a wonderful woman and we are good friends.  But she talked her son into dropping out of college when he was 19 and moving across the country with her and her new husband.  He never really had another opportunity or finances to go back easily and regretted it for years and years.  I asked her once why she did that.  She said that honestly thinking back there were a couple of reasons.  One, she was concerned that without family support he would end up struggling to maintain his grades and would end up dropping out anyway.  She wanted to protect him from failing and thought that maybe he would go back later on.  But the other reason, and she was reluctant to admit this at first, was that she was afraid if he actually graduated from college he would see her as less of a person because she had never gone to college.  She was afraid he wouldn't want to acknowledge her as his mother anymore and would be embarrassed to be around her.  She was also afraid that he would no longer fit in with the rest of the family since none of her siblings or parents had gone to college.  She admits she was not consciously aware of the latter at the time she talked him in to quitting but she believes that was definitely a factor subconsciously and feels terrible about it now...

 

Wow, I am impressed at the soul-searching and the honesty.  I hope she finds comfort.

 

[gardenmom5]

I've had experience with this personality.  she was a very petty person, who was very covetous.  she had deep resentment towards anyone who did better.  she would even do things to undermine her posterity so she could feel important and needed.

[Desert Strawberry]

D has dealt with some of this. It's ridiculous to us because we don't have a lot of money, struggle financially and have made financial sacrifices to have more time together as a family. 

He has a lot of the same factors mentioned above. Unplanned teen pregnancy. Shame, resentment, a bad marriage, intense poverty and instability. He was actively discouraged from going to college because it's expensive and he wasn't smart enough. He graduated high school with honors, but he had learning disabilities, so they still think he's intellectually deficient. He's a professional with a college degree and his name on his office door, and they are still convinced that I pick out his clothes for him every morning. Not exaggerating.

His mother has made comments about him being greedy And materialistic and how she wishes she hadn't sent him to live with his grandparents,because then he never would have joined the military and married me and pursued an education and a career, and then he wouldn't think he was better than her. He would be like the other kids and depend on her and let her " be involved" with our kids (translation: meddle in our affairs, undermine our parenting, dictate our choices). 

I have only seen this attitude in working class and poor families. There is a pride in getting by on little. A false humility and insecurity. 

[gardenmom5]

 

I have only seen this attitude in working class and poor families. There is a pride in getting by on little. A false humility and insecurity. 

 

the 'snobbery of those on the bottom looking up'.

my father's stepfather was like that too.  a working class guy who repeatedly told my father he'd never amount to anything. (my father put himself through college.)  he was probably jealous.  my grandmother came from an affluent and educated family when college degrees were the exception.  but married badly and ended up a divorced mother in 1932.  back when all divorcee's were hussies and shunned by society.  (especially by mothers of eligible sons)

[Crimson Wife]

FIL wanted his kids to do better, but only a LITTLE bit better. Going from lower middle class to straight middle class like BIL is fine. Attending Stanford instead of the local state college was not and FIL refused to give the money that had been saved as a way of trying to control DH. Fortunately, DH was able to piece together scholarships and PT/summer work to cover the cost without going into debt. FIL was also not terribly supportive of DH going to grad school but he at least did not do anything to try to undermine it.

 

I do not understand this mindset, but I think it is a real barrier to a young person pulling himself/herself into better circumstances.

[Guest]

Ok, I have asked this question in private conversations before, in a slightly different form. But, why do some parents seem to want their kids to struggle and/or do the same as, or worse financially, educationally, etc. than themselves? I have had extended relatives, and a few friends, who had one or more parents who seemed to resent their adult kids doing better than themselves, and in one case, when the child has had some serious financial woes, even gloated about it. Mind = boggled.

 

That other thread had a few posters who mentioned, not quite that level of...I guess, competition? Is that the word? Anyway, not quite the level of competitiveness with their adult kids, but they shared how parental disappointment was expressed when they, for whatever reason, had an easier time of it than their parents.

 

This, I do not understand! I hope my son has a way better financial future (and emotional, and educational, and every other category) than his dad or me. Not that I think we have it so awful; but, I guess I see it as a measure of our success in raising him if he is able to do well by himself. Right?

 

Am I missing something? Do others have insight, or recognize what I'm talking about here? This is NOT a rant or JAWM. If others disagree or have other interpretations of this behavior, please share. Thanks!

I hope I have time to participate in this thread, because I am one of the posters who said this.

 

Concisely, I have no idea, not the slightest, why my mother behaved this way. It has definitely toned down over time, but early on, it was pronounced and noticeable. It might possibly be a feeling of "My kid and I will not have this in common anymore." I won't be on the phone crying to my mother because my kid needs dental work and I can't afford it. If i were to share certain happy experiences with my mom, she also would not have any frame of reference for sharing my joy.

 

So, for example, when I was growing up, I heard my mom "diss" cruise vacations. My parents drink no alcohol ever and would never gamble; they viewed cruise vacations as a big, expensive ship full of drinkers and casino-goers. ;) dh and I went on a cruise, to Alaska, because we love natural beauty and the outdoors. I couldn't care less about the casino or drinks. The trip was amazing! My parents (especially dad) would LOVE seeing Tracy Arm Fjord! That was some of the most breathtaking scenery I have ever laid eyes on. But I felt like I had to be low-key about it with my parents, because mom has talked down about cruises all my life!

 

I definitely want my children to be comfortable enough that they don't cry about money. I do also deeply hope they will be generous, philanthropic, and never greedy or wasteful. As I've heard quoted, though I don't recall who said it, "I have been poor and I have been rich. Rich is better." I do agree!

[Chava_Raizel]

I hope I have time to participate in this thread, because I am one of the posters who said this.

 

Concisely, I have no idea, not the slightest, why my mother behaved this way. It has definitely toned down over time, but early on, it was pronounced and noticeable. It might possibly be a feeling of "My kid and I will not have this in common anymore." I won't be on the phone crying to my mother because my kid needs dental work and I can't afford it. If i were to share certain happy experiences with my mom, she also would not have any frame of reference for sharing my joy.

 

 

 

Yes - this. I really think this could be a reason for my mother to act this way towards me. She's one who revels in her own misery. She loves to tell me all about her troubles, current illnesses, etc. Whenever I try to bring up happier topics she cuts me off and changes to a more depressing topic. She's like that about parenting issues as well. My oldest is turning 15 in a few days and my mom is sitting on the edge of her seat waiting for her to rebel or do something horrible. I was a difficult teen, and she's desperate for me to experience that. It's like I haven't "earned" motherhood until my children hate me. :confused1:

 

I don't think she wishes my life were awful. But I do think in some way, it would make her feel better about her own life if she had someone to share in her misery, if that makes any sense. It's really a sad way to live.

[TammyS]

I've dealt with something similar, but not the same.  My mother, who makes about the same amount of money (maybe a bit more) as we do, is very resentful of our different financial choices.  We live frugally and work hard to be financially stable (think Dave Ramsey like), so we don't do much in the way of vacations (we haven't even been camping in a few years) or loads of Christmas/birthday presents.  We are quite happy living this way, it's not like we feel deprived.  We like things as much as others, but we like having enough to KNOW we can cover our bills even more.  My mother is terribly resentful of our lifestyle.  She spends every nickle she gets her hands on as fast as she can. She inherited a house from her father that (at the time he died) needed a new roof "in the next few years".  That was 14 years ago.  She hasn't replaced the roof and is now, essentially, homeless (despite the fact that she could have easily saved up the money to do the roof), and living (miserably) on my sister's couch.  She thinks that she's just really unlucky, yet, at the same time, is still spending money like water.  She resents when my dh and I won't go on elaborate family vacations, that we live with one car, that we don't have big "hallmark productions" Christmases.  I don't know how to explain it, exactly. 

 

I've been trying to help her find a place to rent (because she's basically abandoning her father's home) and I've been trying to talk to her about looking at her expenses and figuring out what her budget is available for rent.  She has some general idea of what her bills are and what she makes, but she doesn't really track her incoming or outgoing, so she can't really tell me what she can afford, which of course makes it difficult to narrow down rental possibilities for her.  When I try to talk to her about things like this (figuring out what she can really afford so she doesn't find herself unable to pay her rent and get evicted) she just gets angry and says "Not everybody can be perfect like you!".  Um, ok.  Sigh.  I'm probably not explaining it very well.

 

We try to be responsible with our money (and it's not like we talk about it with her, except when she asks us to do something that is not in our budget) and she doesn't and she resents us for it.  We're somehow being "uppity" or "acting like we are better than others" because we want to make sure to have enough to pay the mortgage.

[gardenmom5]

 As I've heard quoted, though I don't recall who said it, "I have been poor and I have been rich. Rich is better." I do agree!

 

sounds like something mae west would have said.  one movie has her saying "we've seen greed and we've seen fear.  greed is better."

 

[Catherine]

As I think about it I really think some people just need to have something they are unhappy about. What I learned after many years is that trying to please some people will fail, because when I finally succeed in getting them the thing they were wishing for, they immediately move on to another dissatisfaction. And often, it is a gripe about something that cannot be changed-something from the past the I did that was a source of disappointment. I had to disengage a bit to protect my sanity. Argh.

[Seasider]

I haven't seen anything I'd describe as resentment, but I have observed what appears to be rising to stay a step ahead of the mot successful child in terms of vehicles, housing and fashion (this in the parents of a friend). I think, in this situation, it's in pursuit of maintaining the "matriarchy."

 

I do always wonder why empty nester retired folks move into large new homes in their 60s. While I would love to be able to have all the kids and some-day grandkids over at the same time for the holidays, etc, I'm not worried about that involving a few sleeping bags or air mattresses. I know for sure I don't want to sign up for a new 30 year mortgage when I'm 65!

[Leav97]

I my DH family it is the opposite.  The kids didn't do good enough.  I'm not sure anything they could have done would have been enough.  Don't even get me started on both of the kids being SAHPs and how they are ruining their lives.

[Alicia64]

Sadly, I've come across this situation. I'll probably take heat for this, but my guess is that the parents acting out in this way have Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD). Normal parents want the absolute best for their children. And if kids soar way above them -- absolutely fine with them.

 

But parents with NPD gloat -- as you say -- when bad things happen to their kids (my mom did) and seem irritated when kids do well. (My parents were extremely dismissive of my successes.)

 

People with normal parents aren't going to know what you're talking about.

 

Alley

[Guest]

My parents always seem to think I make a lot more money than I do. They actually think that of most of their kids. In some way, I think that they think our "successes" somehow reflect positively on them, and no matter what we're doing, they always make up stories to make it seem even better. It KILLS her that I won't just tell her my salary. She tried to figure it out by asking my tax bracket. I wouldn't play. She also guessed an amount once and it was literally double my salary, but I would neither confirm nor deny, which frustrated her even more!

 

On the other hand, my mother flat out told me that she thinks everything has come easy to me, specifically, as if I've never had to work hard for anything, and I do feel like she's a bit resentful. Except...ummm....come again, mom? That's completely and utterly delusional.

 

Also, she is a total champion of my brother, who can't keep a job to save his life, or really any of her kids she thinks is somehow an "underdog". I'm not quite sure how she makes those assessments. Does she have a formula she's come up with in her head? I don't know. It's weird, though. It's like she wants us to do well financially, but when we do (or, she gets it in her head that we do) it's somehow only because everything has always come easy to us? I find it bizarre.

These same dynamics have played out in my family.

 

I think something to keep in mind is that people don't chum up often with others whose economic status is vastly different from their own. Economic standing influences so much of what one cares about, considers a problem, worries about, etc. that there can easily be a lack of common ground.

 

So, for example, an upper-middle class mom might have this frustration in her life:

"I don't know what to do about my nanny. When I hired her, I told her I did not mind if she got her two kids off the bus when picking up my daughter. Come to find out, though, her boys snack the hell out of my pantry when they come home from school! They ate all my daughter's Gluten-Free cookies, even! Should I say something about this?" *example adapted from IRL conversation.

 

So, if the upper-middle mom is telling this story to a poverty-line mom, there's no common ground. The mom without money cannot relate to having such a frivolous "problem." If the upper-middle mom knows the situation with the poorer mom, chances are good she won't even tell the story in the first place, because she knows it sounds like "Rich People Probs."

 

This is why people generally hang out with folks in a similar boat. It is also why people whose economic situation changes very drastically rarely retain the same friends.

[Anne in CA]

Well,  I do think some people have selfish blind spots that have nothing to do with personality disorders... my mother seems to resent my sister's lovely house and my sister worked her butt off to get it and deserves it. I could never be jealous of my sister because she and her dh have worked so hard for what they have, and what they have received by her dh's "inheritance" they have been good stewards of. My mother is not NPD, and she does not seem to resent the success of other people, she just seems to feel my sister's house is wasteful. It probably seems to my sister that my mother resents her financial success, but mostly my mom is nice about it.

 

I do think most people should be glad for their children to do better than them. I have made HUGE sacrifices for my children so that they can do better than me. The oldest I sacrificed the most for and she is not interested in even supporting herself, much less acquiring wealth, my son is working very hard to be financially independent and he might acquire wealth and I would not expect a thing from him and just be happy for him. I will be shocked if my youngest does not do extremely well financially, and I will be happy for her and not expect anything from her either. She is naturally ambitious though.

 

 

[BarbecueMom]

nm, changed my mind

[LucyStoner]

 

So, if the upper-middle mom is telling this story to a poverty-line mom, there's no common ground. The mom without money cannot relate to having such a frivolous "problem." If the upper-middle mom knows the situation with the poorer mom, chances are good she won't even tell the story in the first place, because she knows it sounds like "Rich People Probs."

 

I dunno. I have run into a large number of people who vent about some pretty upper class first world problems to mixed income company. oone instance that sticks in my mind is the day I was at my son's enrichment class with my neice and nephew and younger son in tow. I'd had a trying morning and had in fact just picked up my niece from the police station when they decided not to let her DV abuser dad take her from school. My older son is in a class and my niece and nephew and younger son are playing with tantagrams in the waiting area. One mom, a single mom on assistance due to her son's special needs is chatting with me about something or the other. Then she was talking about how difficult it is to afford gas to get to the classes. Then another mom, who definitely knows the financial sitiation of the first chatty mom joins us and wants to chat. I gave the most simple, undetailed explaination for why I had 100% more kids with me. Aside from sharing some things online and talking to a therapist and my husband and one very close friend, I keep it fairly close to the vest on this family dramarama. The second mom though launches into a really loud vent about how she doesn't think her tile in her luxury kitchen remodel was done quite right. She even whipped out her tablet to show us these truly imperceptible "defects" which she said her husband and mother and friends didn't see. Her tablet and cover easily cost more than the first mom's entire monthly income and, believe me, the finishes and appliances in this new kitchen were easily more than an annual FT living wage in our area. I have to admit I was a bit irked. Not because she was sharing pics of her remodel (I might have enjoyed that, it was really lovely) but by how big of a deal she was making over this "problem". It wasn't the first time I've observed this sort of behavior. There's common ground and then there's why is this even worth thinking about much less whining about?!

[monstermama]

In my experience with family and friends' family, it does seem to be the parents who had to raise the kids in poverty (and came from poverty themselves) that say these things.  I've heard the "oh, THAT must be nice" and the "oh, I didn't know what to get you for Christmas/birthday, since you already have so much, so we just got you a candy bar".  Or being told that the child who works in an office OBVIOUSLY doesn't work anywhere near as hard as the child who works at the grocery store.  Or listening to them advise one child not to take the promotion to the salaried job (everyone else is paid hourly) because they'll get lazy.  But heaven forbid anyone in the family "need" anything, because then it's time to call up the family ATM...  Honestly, the same people are always the ones who are constantly complaining about everything under the sun and absolutely relish drama and gossip, so I wonder if isn't just an extension of the "woe is me!" attitude.  It used to really annoy me, but now I just pity them, because honestly, what must've happened in their lives to make them begrudge someone else's success?  In my family, the parents who are like this had at least one parent who said the same things to them.  I feel bad for the other kids, too, who listened to the parents and decided to not go to college, not move for that awesome job, not take the promotion.  In this economy, they're lucky if they can make a little over minimum wage.

[mathnerd]

I have experiences with this kind of parent. If I succeed at anything, then it is all due to how much they sacrificed in raising me and if I failed at anything, they always knew that I was a loser, anyway! And none of my successes were due to my talent or hard work, it was all due to the parenting they did or just plain good luck. 

They champion an "underdog" in our family who exploits them for money and support and who they think is a poor, suffering person who life has treated badly despite this person having more opportunities than me as a child! They tell me aloud that they wish that both me and the underdog can swap lives and that would make them happy. Come to think of it, my grandfather used to talk like that and maybe people who grow up in such environments turn out to be the same way.

 

I wish for my child to be better off than me in every way and I hope to have a healthy and happy relationship with him when I grow older. 

[Guest]

I dunno. I have run into a large number of people who vent about some pretty upper class first world problems to mixed income company. oone instance that sticks in my mind is the day I was at my son's enrichment class with my neice and nephew and younger son in tow. I'd had a trying morning and had in fact just picked up my niece from the police station when they decided not to let her DV abuser dad take her from school. My older son is in a class and my niece and nephew and younger son are playing with tantagrams in the waiting area. One mom, a single mom on assistance due to her son's special needs is chatting with me about something or the other. Then she was talking about how difficult it is to afford gas to get to the classes. Then another mom, who definitely knows the financial sitiation of the first chatty mom joins us and wants to chat. I gave the most simple, undetailed explaination for why I had 100% more kids with me. Aside from sharing some things online and talking to a therapist and my husband and one very close friend, I keep it fairly close to the vest on this family dramarama. The second mom though launches into a really loud vent about how she doesn't think her tile in her luxury kitchen remodel was done quite right. She even whipped out her tablet to show us these truly imperceptible "defects" which she said her husband and mother and friends didn't see. Her tablet and cover easily cost more than the first mom's entire monthly income and, believe me, the finishes and appliances in this new kitchen were easily more than an annual FT living wage in our area. I have to admit I was a bit irked. Not because she was sharing pics of her remodel (I might have enjoyed that, it was really lovely) but by how big of a deal she was making over this "problem". It wasn't the first time I've observed this sort of behavior. There's common ground and then there's why is this even worth thinking about much less whining about?!

Okay, but this proves my point about how classes don't intermingle well because problems/concerns are unequal. That woman was being dopey for not realizing it, but I have seen very identical behavior from upper-middle income folks whom I know.

 

I remember once when a friend was deeply regretting the gorgeous Pottery Barn dec-out she did her dd's room in because she came to her senses later and remembered she "hates pastels" and "doesn't know what possessed her" to choose that adorable theme that now "turns her stomach." So, she was giving away quilts, lamps, etc. and re-decorating a bedroom she had for less than a year, so it would be navy and yellow and no longer the "puke-inducing" pastel room most moms I know would not be able to afford in their dizziest daydreams. It rubbed me wrong. But I think she perceives me as closer to her income (we may be; I don't actually know), but I'm frugal and very sensitive to these type of class-centric complaints due to my upbringing.

[countrygal]

My mom is like that. She has NPD (narcissistic personality disorder.) So... anyone doing 'better' than her she doesn't like. She even said to my sister "it isn't fair that my daughters are doing better than me." She seems to enjoy when we suffer, in more ways than just financially. Like, 'your husbands will cheat on you someday, save for your divorce.' It somehow makes her feel 'good' and better. Truly a mental sickness.

[Murphy101]

But the other reason, and she was reluctant to admit this at first, was that she was afraid if he actually graduated from college he would see her as less of a person because she had never gone to college. She was afraid he wouldn't want to acknowledge her as his mother anymore and would be embarrassed to be around her. She was also afraid that he would no longer fit in with the rest of the family since none of her siblings or parents had gone to college. She admits she was not consciously aware of the latter at the time she talked him in to quitting but she believes that was definitely a factor subconsciously and feels terrible about it now...

And you know what? It's was a valid worry. In very poor communities, those who make it out almost never come back. They might send money to cover mama's rent and begrudgingly call once a month, but most? Their mothers and fathers feel they have "lost" them. And it's terribly painful to them same as it would be anyone else.

 

And to be fair, the kids often feel they lost their parents too. Or never really had them to begin with.

 

Poverty is a tight culture. Leaving it doesn't just change economic status.

[LucyStoner]

Okay, but this proves my point about how classes don't intermingle well because problems/concerns are unequal. That woman was being dopey for not realizing it, but I have seen very identical behavior from upper-middle income folks whom I know.

 

I remember once when a friend was deeply regretting the gorgeous Pottery Barn dec-out she did her dd's room in because she came to her senses later and remembered she "hates pastels" and "doesn't know what possessed her" to choose that adorable theme that now "turns her stomach." So, she was giving away quilts, lamps, etc. and re-decorating a bedroom she had for less than a year, so it would be navy and yellow and no longer the "puke-inducing" pastel room most moms I know would not be able to afford in their dizziest daydreams. It rubbed me wrong. But I think she perceives me as closer to her income (we may be; I don't actually know), but I'm frugal and very sensitive to these type of class-centric complaints due to my upbringing.

I get what you are saying but I have friends at all income and asset points. This may be because I come from a low income background, live a pretty middle class life now (despite the choice to lower our income temporarily for my husband's school and my son's health, we have the assets and education level that certainly means I can't claim poverty) and went to school with mostly very well off peers. I dunno. Definitely many people perceive me as being in their class when I may not really be because of the way I dress and talk.

At one job, a wealthy woman was very taken aback I wasn't from a wealthy background but had gone to camp with her daughter.

 

My personal favorite is when pretty privileged peeps with a chip on their shoulder and something to prove try to lecture me on class, poverty, race or whatever, assuming that I had a lot of the privileges they did. Like they tell me to consider what it must be like to be poor or try to imagine being homeless. Ok, I'll try to imagine that. Oh wait, this isn't hypothetical for me. :p

 

I personally think that often when some one is whining about something like that (slightly different color tiles or whatever she was carrying on about) they are probably really hurting on some level they can't/won't share and the angst spills over into the mundane. Maybe a few really are just that frigging shallow, but I seriously doubt this lady was. I know she has a son with special needs and her husband wigs me out so I doubt it was really JUST the tile that was pissing her off. Some people just have to present a perfect veneer. Does that make any sense? I am rambling on my phone while cooking dinner. Not the best for coherently writing ideas. :p

[Murphy101]

Okay, but this proves my point about how classes don't intermingle well because problems/concerns are unequal. That woman was being dopey for not realizing it, but I have seen very identical behavior from upper-middle income folks whom I know.

 

I remember once when a friend was deeply regretting the gorgeous Pottery Barn dec-out she did her dd's room in because she came to her senses later and remembered she "hates pastels" and "doesn't know what possessed her" to choose that adorable theme that now "turns her stomach." So, she was giving away quilts, lamps, etc. and re-decorating a bedroom she had for less than a year, so it would be navy and yellow and no longer the "puke-inducing" pastel room most moms I know would not be able to afford in their dizziest daydreams. It rubbed me wrong. But I think she perceives me as closer to her income (we may be; I don't actually know), but I'm frugal and very sensitive to these type of class-centric complaints due to my upbringing.

Or

 

Maybe she knew the difference in finance and thought you might want her stuff?

 

Why presume badly of her?

 

ETA: Take my comment with a grain of salt. I'm the same person who was horrified my mil's idea of redoing her bathroom meant buying new everything from towels and floor to sink, cabinets and light fixtures. :o because it's been "five years and it needs updated". lol. Okay. Thanks for giving me all the new towels! :)

[Murphy101]

Or maybe they consider house decor to be a "safe" topic? Unlike money, religion, sex, and politics? People usually talke about work and hobbies, maybe house decorating is her hobby?

[Guest]

Or

 

Maybe she knew the difference in finance and thought you might want her stuff?

 

Why presume badly of her?

Well, I know her extremely well and this is but one example. She told me about it in the context that she wanted to see if my mother, who is an excellent seamstress, would be be interested in sewing new decorations for her.

 

Besides, these are truly the terms she used. The decorations that she bought less than a year ago now "turn her stomach." Would you describe a quilt that way to someone you intended to give it to?

[Murphy101]

Well, I know her extremely well and this is but one example. She told me about it in the context that she wanted to see if my mother, who is an excellent seamstress, would be be interested in sewing new decorations for her.

 

Besides, these are truly the terms she used. The decorations that she bought less than a year ago now "turn her stomach." Would you describe a quilt that way to someone you intended to give it to?

Idk. I might. I really hate pastels too and social etiquette is not my strongest point. ;)

[Joanne]

Sadly, I've come across this situation. I'll probably take heat for this, but my guess is that the parents acting out in this way have Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD). Normal parents want the absolute best for their children. And if kids soar way above them -- absolutely fine with them.

 

But parents with NPD gloat -- as you say -- when bad things happen to their kids (my mom did) and seem irritated when kids do well. (My parents were extremely dismissive of my successes.)

 

People with normal parents aren't going to know what you're talking about.

 

Alley

 

I am guessing *some* of the weirdness about the success of a grown child might be explained by NPD - it would definitely be a place for NPD behavior to land.

 

I have 2 xh's. One actually IS NPD. He doesn't have the behavior described in this thread. XH #2 doesn't have a personality disorder. He does, however, have weirdness around people with money or who live in comfort. He seems to *need* to put them down, or assume snottiness or read snottiness into their behavior.

[Guest]

Or maybe they consider house decor to be a "safe" topic? Unlike money, religion, sex, and politics? People usually talke about work and hobbies, maybe house decorating is her hobby?

I'm sure she does. That's kind of my point, though. Just like Lucy Stoner was saying about the woman complaining about the tiles. She's not thinking she sounds like a pampered brat because she no longer loves the decorations that many women will never get the first chance to own. Her concern was focused on how the bedroom no longer pleases her and money is no object so - pffft! Out it goes.

[ksr5377]

I think that my mother really does want me to be happy and successful and have a good life - but that every now and then there's some jealousy that rears it's ugly head and she can't keep it in.  It really just has to do with different life choices.  I don't work, she worked like crazy to send us to private schools.  I can't afford private schools, partially because I don't work, therefore we homeschool.  She complains about driving a car about to die when I got a new car.  However, she buys a and buys and buys clothes, decorations etc.  I have 3 pairs of jeans and maybe buy a new holiday decoration every other year or so. Even though they make good money my parents do not budget and so they run out of money.  I NEVER want my children to experience the stress of having utilities shut off and DH and I arguing about money.  There was no reason for 2 people with a combined income over $125,000 to have had their electric and phones shut off as often as they were while I was growing up.  And it's not that they forgot to pay them, it's that they bought so many useless things because they wanted them right then that they didn't have the money to pay them.  So now we're looking at them never retiring because they have no assets other than their home.  I'm scrimping and saving to remodel our master bathroom while they decided one weekend to spend $1500 on upgrades to theirs.  That was great, but then they ran out of money and couldn't buy food at the end of the month.  My mom especially acts as if my DH is some wizard with money because our bills are always paid and we're never asking for loans.  Then she'll turn around and laugh at how silly I am with my "little money envelopes" that tell me how much I'm allowed to spend at the grocery store.  My parents cannot make the connection between my spending habits (or cheapness as my mom calls it) and the nice things that we have. 

[Aelwydd]

Or maybe they consider house decor to be a "safe" topic? Unlike money, religion, sex, and politics? People usually talke about work and hobbies, maybe house decorating is her hobby?

This was actually my first thought, too.

[saw]

This reminds me of the time xdh and I went to Colonial Williamsburg for Thanksgiving with his brother and wife, around the time we were all first married, all parties working, no kids. There were two different kinds  of ticket we could buy and xdh got the (somewhat) more expensive ones because we figured, hey, we're here, who knows when we'll get back, let's see it properly. This offended SIL so much that she flat out would not speak to us the for entire weekend. She sat mute and would have nothing at all to do with us, not at the meals, not while looking around, nothing. It was only later that xdh was able to worm out of his brother that she had been offended that we chose to get the pricier tickets. While we were making more than they at the time, it's not like it was a huge difference in income and certainly not such a difference that they couldn't have afforded the tickets. Or that they couldn't have discussed this reasonably with us.

This was years ago and I've since realized that SIL is the sort of person who will be critical of everyone about everything. Money just happens to be one of her "things." She's the kind of person whose conversation consists of telling you how awful everyone else in the family is -- and when you leave the room, you can just about feel the knife sliding into your own back. So I don't deal with her anymore.

[Catherine]

Just to make the situation more confusing, I think there are separate issues of money and of class. People with very little material means can think and behave like those of a more middle class background. Ditto for income: people who make what many consider to be middle class income can still maintain a poverty mindset and spend unwisely because of it. I've long believed that my mom's "class mindset" (higher than our income) was one reason I was able to imagine not being poor. And a middle class mindset meant, when I was a kid, very careful shepherding of resources, saving for the future, etc.

 

I think of a total poverty mindset as not saving, because there is no hope of getting ahead...thus, spend it as soon as you have it.

[SKL]

Interesting to listen to the back and forth about women of different classes conversing.

 

I do understand why it is best not to ever say anything like "my nanny" in front of someone below upper-middle.  In fact, before I decided hiring a nanny was my best choice, I used to have a judgy reaction to the word.

 

However, in the example of waiting at the enrichment class, why is everyone whining to perfect strangers in the first place?  And why is one person's whine more acceptable than another person's whine?  Why is it OK to complain about the cost of gasoline and not OK to complain about the frustration of someone taking your money and screwing up the place where you live and cook?  If it's acceptable at all for women to commiserate, why must well-off women be excluded from that experience?  She must either stick to the weather as a topic, or she must sit quietly.  And if she sits and says nothing, it's going to be interpreted as aloofness and "I'm better than you" and "I can't relate."  Because "I can relate to frustration" is not permitted if your income is over $x.

 

I don't like it.  How can people hope for good class relations if they reject anything a person of means says?  It's dumb.

 

Everyone has frustrations.  Money doesn't change that.  It doesn't hurt to lend an ear to someone just because she has more than the other people in the room.

 

Yes, the well-off woman could have tried to find a better subject, and so could we all at times.

[Cinder]

I'm one who hasn't encountered this attitude, thankfully. We grew up poor but my mom always encouraged better for us because she always wanted better for herself. She applied for me to go to a private school that had generous need-based scholarships; the school even paid for my lunch. She encouraged me to go to college--and I was able to get a full scholarship. All her children eventually became financially stable--as did she--and I think that brings her relief; she doesn't want any of us to be as badly off as she was when we were young.

[Murphy101]

I'm sure she does. That's kind of my point, though. Just like Lucy Stoner was saying about the woman complaining about the tiles. She's not thinking she sounds like a pampered brat because she no longer loves the decorations that many women will never get the first chance to own. Her concern was focused on how the bedroom no longer pleases her and money is no object so - pffft! Out it goes.

Honestly I am with SKL on this one. In my head, I might hear the green monster saying "that must be nice". But I usually try hard to not feed that evil critter and instead be happy for them and just start talking about what tiles they are considering.

 

I have to admit. The biggest similar conversation I hear or read about almost every day in home schooling circles?

 

"Oh we didn't finish blank curriculum bc it just wasn't working or we didn't like it or we found this and thought it was better so we just ditched it and bought..."

 

Sigh.

 

To me, that's luxury. I have carpet in this house that is literally worn down to a plywood hole. Broken furniture. Rooms in dire need of paint. A car in the shop that I can't afford to get fixed. And tho I'd like to change all of that, being able to just buy whatever curriculum I think best without fret over the cost or being stuck with it for a year? That sounds luxurious to me. We have never done that. If we have bought it, that's what we had to use bc there isn't money to just go buy something else if it doesn't work out. I might hate it, but we stick with it until the next year's funds.

 

I hear the same thing about college classes. Did you know there are people who pay a bloody fortune to go and then miss classes to sleep in?! That boggles my mind. I thought that was just stupid tv stereotype that no one really did. Not only did I never miss class the brief time I was there and my kids never miss class, we get pretty annoyed if the teacher is late because by golly these classes are expensive!

 

I hear stuff like this all. The. Time.

 

But I don't think badly of them for it. I usually either just laugh about it and say how I'm such a penny pincher that's beyond my comprehension or just go with the flow and discuss what they are doing.

 

I know many people who complain about money or who pride themselves on how spend thrifty they are who blow me away with how much they spend on things that I know most people can't afford. I just smile and either be happy for them or change the subject. This of course presumes they are otherwise nice people who are just rather clueless about people outside their bubble. If they are turds, well why would I bother regardless of the focus of the conversation then?

[FaithManor]

SKL, I get what you are saying. We have recently found ourselves in the position to just have to stare at the ceiling and talk about nothing because we took an international trip.

 

People in this community do not travel much, so I guess they think we have three heads for spending the money to do it or something. Though we have been careful not to talk about the trip, we have received a lot of rude comments about being rich jet setters.

 

Sigh, I need to move. 

 

 

 

[littlebug42]

I know that my mother loves me and supports me in all I do and does not begrudge me anything.   However, I know that it hurts her feelings sometimes that my siblings and I all chose to homeschool our children.  I think she sees it as some sort of moral judgment on her parenting and our own upbringing.  She divorced my alcoholic, abusive father when I was 4.  Absolutely the right thing to do.  None of us have ever blamed her for that.  However, she was a single mom working full time and we were left to our own devices a lot.  It was a necessity and we all know she did the absolute best she could with rotten circumstances.  She had weeks where she wondered how she was going to feed her children.  I know she carries a lot of guilt though and seeing us all with circumstances more like what she would have wanted for herself and her own children is too much sometimes.  

[aggie96]

DH and I have experienced this on both sides of the family, directly and passive-aggressively.  It baffles us.  We just try to navigate the waters with integrity and grace.   ...but some days it is HARD.  :(   Some family we can maintain enough distance that it doesn't matter, but some are closer, and we just have to deal with it as it comes up.

[dirty ethel rackham]

Wow.  I just can't understand that kind of thinking.  You would have to be very small and petty to resent a child being successful.  However, I could see a parent being resentful of a child choosing $$ over relationships.  My parents were very bothered by one of my siblings obsession with success that it excluded spending any time with them.  Mom and Dad wold go visit this person, who could not be bothered to take time off to actually spend with them.  My sibling is quite wealthy so nobody understood this unwillingness to spend more than an evening with the folks. 

 

Now, I could see a very rich person choosing not to leave everything to their kids in order to encourage them to be responsible and self-sufficient.  But that is not about rensentment.