kwg Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 My 7 year old seems to be going through something for several weeks now and I feel like I am not handling it well. He keeps telling me things he has done wrong- from years ago. When he was 5 he used to whisper bad words to himself, once he knew he wasn't done with school but when I said he was he agreed (so he felt like he was lying), he will come over to me with tears in his eyes bc he accidently said a bad word- he stutters. Most of his confessions center around bad words but not all. yesterday he accidently said a bad word while cleaning the playroom with his brother, then he came back and said he had another accident- and then he comes down and says well the second one might not have been an accident....then he came down saying he can't stop thinking about it, but really it might not have been an accident- At that point, honestly, I did not even care. I told him to just stop talking and clean up! lol (not meanly or anything) But I mean he was crying and I said everything I knew to reassure him. I made him keep at it for a bit then called break time and read to him which did seem to distract him. You would think we beat him or something. I try to reassure him at each venture that its ok, we all make mistakes. He seems really upset and says "he just feels so bad" whenever he finally tells me what he did. I have no idea what started all this! I have tried to talk to him about it but it has not been very enlightening. SO- is this a developmental stage? Or is my kid having a mental breakdown? Any book recommendations either for me or to read to him? I always throw out there that we are a secular family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 This can be within the realm of normal developmental stages. However, your son is very anxious, mama. He needs to have his "mistakes" normalized. He needs to know that everyone makes them. It would be helpful to start pointing out the mistakes you make every day. I had an anxious kid like this, and I did this, pointing out my addition errors or other mistakes and then laughing and making light of them, modeling that everyone makes mistakes and that they are really not a big deal. I did this for years, by the way, not days, before he was mostly past the self-flagellating. I like this book because it has some practical things that parents can say and do to help their kids at home: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0767914929/?tag=mh0b-20&hvadid=3484742163&ref=pd_sl_kzr30zmkl_e ETA: What bad word did he say? I would consider taking him to a room by himself and asking him to say it and then you say it and you laugh. This might help to desensitize him to the word. It is a somewhat paradoxical intervention, but it would be my "gut" approach to this to try first. The word has power that it shouldn't, and you can help your son take it back. It is just a collection of letters, after all. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 I wonder about anxiety or some ocd/repetitive thinking. I'd be consider a low key eval, especially since this isn't a first time experience. Anxiety can look different in a kid than one would think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrub Jay Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 My daughter actually went through a very similar thing for about a month or 2 at the same age. I reassured her, etc.... It ended up just being a phase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cakes Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 I have an anxious girl who is now 11. She is very hard on herself and quite a perfectionist. Like the previous poster I have modeled my screw ups with humor for many years. I laugh and point out what I dork I am....because don't we all do plenty if dumb things? It is important for these personalities to learn that mistakes are ok. Our love for them and their value is not based on always doing things correctly. Messing up is normal and healthy...I always point our that we learn more from our mistakes than we do from doing something correctly...then I share an example. I do agree though. That your boy 'may' be showing an excessive amount of anxiety and I second the suggestion for an eval. It can't up hurt and you may end up with some long term strategies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 This book might be helpful. We have it and have read it and it is short and positive. http://www.amazon.com/What-When-Brain-Stuck-What-/dp/1591478057/ref=sr_sp-atf_title_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1404575868&sr=1-3&keywords=OCD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 If you're a family of faith, this sort of scenario is where we talk about forgiveness and grace, and the difference between accidents and sin, and depending on the extent of the confession, unconditional love, how we will love child forever no matter what they do (though we still might get angry with them at times), and how they could do nothing that would make us not love them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudoMom Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 I would read about PANDAS and have him tested for strep, just to rule it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer in MI Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 I would read about PANDAS and have him tested for strep, just to rule it out. Yup! Is this a sudden change? Has he been sick recently (think right before it started?) If so, definitely read up on PANDAS. My daughter suffered horribly with PANDAS for eight months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwg Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 I would say that it has been more gradual. He first became very interested in bad words, when (as in what age) he could say them, and now the accidents happen. Also, he has moved on to other types of "lying". PANDAS is interesting in that before that I guess he never worried about saying them....maybe I should call the doc. I have started pointing out my current mistakes and asked dh to do likewise. He loves hearing mine from childhood and when he really can't stop his brain says that is the only thing that helps so can I please tell him some stories..lol. Thank you Kat! I am hoping it is a phase. I hope this doesn't come across as snarky Katy, but what does a family of faith have to do with forgiveness, grace, unconditional love, mistakes, and accidents? We talk about all those things each time. We do not talk about sin. I will keep discussing it with him though! Thank you! Today he "confessed" that he didn't really brush his teeth properly- like well- and said he did brush his teeth- and something about looking for things when he must not have looked well. I am going to check out the book suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
songsparrow Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 We chose not to call profanities "bad" words but "adult" words. We discussed how profanity can sometimes allow people to express strong emotions, and that sometimes people use them to shock or get attention. We also discussed how there are lots of other words that we can choose to express such sentiments. (At a later time, we also discussed the difference between profanity and hateful words, when that issue came up in a book. We discussed how adults may choose to use profanity because everyone feels strong emotions at times, but we never use hateful words because we don't hate people.) I don't know if getting away from the good/bad dichotomy and moving to the child/adult dichotomy would be helpful in your case. I wanted to mention it, in case you think it might help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Feeling guilty and repeatedly apologizing for really minor things was one manifestation of OCD for my DD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I would 'normalize' everything for a time and see what happens. 'Oh! Folks worry. That's normal and human." Give it a couple of weeks and see how it goes. Do you feel comfortable adding, 'Jesus has bigger fish to fry than worrying about lovely little boys making little mistakes." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbgrace Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Poor guy (and you, I know this is hard for everyone). This sounds like OCD. His talking to you and seeking reassurance to reduce his anxiety is the compulsion part of his type of OCD. It doesn't sound like a phase to me, though I wish it did. The OCD Foundation (online) has a database of therapists who specialize in treating OCD. If you want to try cognitive behavioral therapy, only use people from that list, even if you have to travel. Therapy is effective, but OCD is treated differently than other anxiety disorders and you need someone who is trained and specializes in OCD specifically. A while back I posted about a supplement I used with my son. He has really been helped. Recently someone else started with her son. It took 9 weeks on the full dose used in the clinical trials (13 weeks from the start) to see any results, but he steadily improved and is now stable too. I read some studies and found many of them word things to indicate that results begin at 12 weeks or similar. If you do try, stay on it long enough to see effects. It will likely take a while before you see anything. I feel confident saying it's safe and definitely worth a try. Here is the thread where I talk about it: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/444394-effective-natural-treatment-for-ocd-perhaps-other-conditions/?p=4535084 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 One thing to watch out for with NAC is yeast. Our biomed dr. prefers to treat for yeast with a course of Nystatin before starting a patient on NAC (this is for treating autism but I presume it would go for individuals using NAC for OCD). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Unless there is more to this than the OP has stated, this does not meet criteria for OCD. Due to the child's age, this has a more than fair chance of being a developmental stage of a child who tends toward anxiety. Many kids are anxious, and sometimes kids who are anxious at 7 turn into kids with diagnosable mental health disorders later on- but not always. It is too early to make this call yet. The OP is wise to take the anxiety seriously and address it, but I don't see criteria met for an OCD diagnosis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbgrace Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Unless there is more to this than the OP has stated, this does not meet criteria for OCD. Due to the child's age, this has a more than fair chance of being a developmental stage of a child who tends toward anxiety. Many kids are anxious, and sometimes kids who are anxious at 7 turn into kids with diagnosable mental health disorders later on- but not always. It is too early to make this call yet. The OP is wise to take the anxiety seriously and address it, but I don't see criteria met for an OCD diagnosis. How familiar are you with OCD? Because to me, and I'm quite familiar, this reads textbook. OCD can get more severe as it goes untreated. It is definitely diagnosable in children this young, and boys particularly often onset early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasmama Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 How familiar are you with OCD? Because to me, and I'm quite familiar, this reads textbook. OCD can get more severe as it goes untreated. It is definitely diagnosable in children this young, and boys particularly often onset early. I'm a therapist specializing in kids, adolescents and families. I don't think we are there at this point unless there is more information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I really know nothing about this, so take this with a grain of salt. I wanted to support what others have said, to just treat it lightly and as a normal behavior when with him, for yet awhile. Help him feel that he is just normal, and add humor. I also wanted to say, that I think the thoughts he is telling you about maybe isn't SO unusual -- he just happens to vocalize them more. (This is my opinion only, of course.) My grown-up kids have told me about strange thoughts they had as young children. The difference is that they kept it to themselves, so I never knew. :) They have all grown up to be stable, healthy, somewhat perfectionists and some very mildly OCD (but not enough to cause any problems), with a great sense of humor and happy. You are wise to keep a close eye on it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbgrace Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 OP, this article has some really practical thoughts in terms of how to respond to this as a parent. I think it might help you no matter what you do or don't do going forward. http://www.worrywisekids.org/node/120 It would also give you an idea of how a Cognitive Behavioral therapist trained in this area would approach what you're seeing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 I second texasmama's book recommendation. I'd try some of the techniques in that book and keep a close eye for things getting worse. If the worries are seriously distressing him or taking up more and more of his life, find him a therapist who uses cognitive-behavioral techniques. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbgrace Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 The author of the book TexasMama linked is Dr. Tamar Chansky. She is excellent. The article I linked just above this is actually from that author's site (worrywisekids), and it is cognitive behavioral in approach. This would give you an idea of Chansky's approach to these issues before you get the book. The whole site is informative. All the therapists on the OCD foundation site will be cognitive behavioral therapists. They will have extra training in the specifics of OCD, when the CBT approach is specific to that disorder. They would also be able to work with non-OCD worry. Dr. Chansky also has an OCD book Your library could probably get both for you to look over. Both books are good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenbee136 Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Hi all ...after weeks and months of trawling the internet for some answers I have stumbled across PANDAS!! I have a six year old son who, when he is well is funny bright and caring. However when he is ill he morphs into a different child. Each time this odd behaviour has started it has been closely followed by infections such as urinary ear throat and chest. It has got to the point where I am presenting at my gp saying his behaviour is horrendous can you check for infection (he doesn't display any other symptoms other than loss of appetite).... They roll their eyes at me... Yet low and behold he has an infection each time!!. The infections are becoming more frequent for example in the last 5 weeks he has had two urinary infections an ear infection and a throat infection. Each time the behaviour lasts longer and each time I am told this is normal??. When I say behaviour this is what he does... First his attitude changes he speaks in a different tone of voice his facial expressions are different, he has uncontrollable violent rages he will attack me swear destroy the house run away hit himself for no reason whatsoever this lasts for hours a few times a day... He weys himself day and night... He is obsessed with dying says he wants to die or wants me to die he says strange things. He does not sleep through the night and is constantly wanting to be in my bed ... I am exhausted/ he is exhausted and this condition is the only thing I have found that describes how he is being.... Do you agree??? What can I do??? So sorry for the long rant but I am desperate...nwe have a paediatrics appointment on Thursday band am wondering if I should mention this or if I am far off the mark??? Thanks A desperate mummy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Definitely mention his behavior. PANDAS is from strep, though. Sorry it's been so hard for you and your little guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Hi all ...after weeks and months of trawling the internet for some answers I have stumbled across PANDAS!! I have a six year old son who, when he is well is funny bright and caring. However when he is ill he morphs into a different child. Each time this odd behaviour has started it has been closely followed by infections such as urinary ear throat and chest. It has got to the point where I am presenting at my gp saying his behaviour is horrendous can you check for infection (he doesn't display any other symptoms other than loss of appetite).... They roll their eyes at me... Yet low and behold he has an infection each time!!. The infections are becoming more frequent for example in the last 5 weeks he has had two urinary infections an ear infection and a throat infection. Each time the behaviour lasts longer and each time I am told this is normal??. When I say behaviour this is what he does... First his attitude changes he speaks in a different tone of voice his facial expressions are different, he has uncontrollable violent rages he will attack me swear destroy the house run away hit himself for no reason whatsoever this lasts for hours a few times a day... He weys himself day and night... He is obsessed with dying says he wants to die or wants me to die he says strange things. He does not sleep through the night and is constantly wanting to be in my bed ... I am exhausted/ he is exhausted and this condition is the only thing I have found that describes how he is being.... Do you agree??? What can I do??? So sorry for the long rant but I am desperate...nwe have a paediatrics appointment on Thursday band am wondering if I should mention this or if I am far off the mark??? Thanks A desperate mummy Why did you post the exact same message in both this thread and the thread you started? You appear to have copied and pasted the exact same post in two different threads within seconds of each other, only a few minutes after joining this forum. I'm glad you started your own thread, but perhaps you should include a link to it in your post here, so people will see the new discussion and not feel the need to respond twice to the same questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwg Posted August 14, 2014 Author Share Posted August 14, 2014 I have been wanting to update on this but I am never sure what to say. Some days I think things are looking better (like today)- we went to the beach and he only had one 'bad thought' and a few at home- lately that has been the thing, bad thoughts. Things like he thought he liked me better than daddy or the other way around, hates his brother, calling people names, etc. Yesterday though was bad. He asked to go to sleep in the early evening bc he said it was the only time that the bad thoughts stopped :crying: . I have a few books still to read- haven't come in yet from the library. I may just order them if they do not hurry up. We have read some books together also. I did look up PANDAS but from what I can understand the treatment regime is the same as "regular" OCD? (I am not dx my son with that understand, just asking). Sorry things are hard for you and your little one too Jen. :grouphug: Hope your dr appt was helpful. I did not see the other thread. Thank you for all the articles and book recs! They are helpful <3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acadie Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 If you're still looking into PANDAS, it might help to know about PANS, which is an array of similar symptoms caused by microbes other than strep. My daughters' doctor did bloodwork for antibodies to a few different microbes associated with PANDAS or PANS. She explained that there could be more even microbes that we just don't know of yet, and of course can't test for yet. We've had somewhat similar issues and I feel strongly in our case that both therapy and pursuing the medical side are necessary. It's not an either/or. The psychological treatment for PANDAS/PANS symptoms may be similar to OCD treatment, but there's a medical component specific to PANDAS or PANS that might get at the root cause. Also, your pediatrician may or may not be able to help you with this. We love our ped, but we're seeing a pediatric osteopath 2 hrs away for PANS treatment. It's a fairly new diagnosis and not at all well known among conventional doctors. Amy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
songsparrow Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Is there anything causing anxiety in your son's life? We dealt with some OCD-like symptoms at a similar age that were related to anxiety (in our case, it was caused by a problematic teacher). Once the situation causing the anxiety was resolved, the behaviors went away as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwg Posted August 14, 2014 Author Share Posted August 14, 2014 I did not know about the other one,PANS. Will have to look I to that. Songsparrow, not that I know of offhand. I will have to think on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Another "family of faith" question -- is it possible that he might be in a Sunday school, vbs, or somewhere (even home) that might be teaching him (explicitly or accidentally) the idea that his "every little wrong thing, word, or thought" is a sin, and that *his* sins *directly* caused the crucifixion of Jesus? That *he* in fact deserves to die as a just punishment, but Jesus died instead? That sort of thing is often said to kids, as some sort of "simplified" atonement theory but it's actually quite appalling if kids take it seriously and concretely. It rolls off most kids, but in your case, it might be a factor. (Has he been to a vbs this summer?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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