The AoPS of writing?

[happyhome]

My 13yr old DD has me stumped.  We've tried a half a dozen writing programs to sure up her academic writing skills before high school (she's currently in 7th grade) and she has disliked all of them.  She's a natural writer and a prolific creative writer so I thought this would be a breeze.  Boy, was I wrong!  

 

Finally, after one of our many writing discussions, I said, "We've tried so many programs, what do you think you want?"  

 

She answered, "Can't we just find the AoPS of writing?"  

 

For those who don't know, AoPS is the Art of Problem Solving math program.  It's whole to parts, big picture, challenging and, in her mind, fun!  Does anything fit this profile in writing curricula?  She was in school until 5th grade, public and private, so she has a solid basic foundation (i.e, sentence structure, solid paragraph, 5 paragraph essay, outlining, creative writing).  We both agree that we would like to strengthen her arrangement and elocution while still protecting her love of writing.

 

Here's what we've tried/looked at…..IEW, Write Shop, WWS, Writing Strands, Classical Comp, Classical Writing.  Her specific feedback is usually some combo of "too boring, too slow, I don't get it, this isn't writing."  A friend suggested the Lost Tools of Writing?  It's pricey but I feel like we own everything else, so why not? :crying:

 

Any ideas?

[deerforest]

I have absolutely no experience with this program, but I have it on my radar for about a year from now.

 

http://www.blackbirdandcompany.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=29

[happyhome]

This looks interesting as an intro. I'll look at the sample pages. It uses Thinking in Threes which I have seen recommended here before. Thanks.

[happyhome]

Somebody else suggested Lively Art of Writing. Does anybody know if that would fit? Lost Tools of Writing?

[MiMi 4under3]

The title of this thread got me very excited!!

 

:bigear:

[Farrar]

Brave Writer is very whole to parts.  It doesn't have the challenge you to frustration to help your learning aspect of AoPS though.  However, it can be made to be more or less challenging, depending.  It's not as laid out as AoPS either though.

 

ETA: I don't know Lively Art of Writing or Lost Tools...  but nearly all the writing programs that are mentioned a lot - WWS, the new CAP programs, IEW, etc. are all very parts to whole.  

[happyhome]

Brave Writer is very whole to parts. It doesn't have the challenge you to frustration to help your learning aspect of AoPS though. However, it can be made to be more or less challenging, depending. It's not as laid out as AoPS either though.

 

ETA: I don't know Lively Art of Writing or Lost Tools... but nearly all the writing programs that are mentioned a lot - WWS, the new CAP programs, IEW, etc. are all very parts to whole.

I know, it's so frustrating. And I have Bravewriter too!! Love the concept and we use a lot of those strategies but I do need more of a "plan." My daughter loves Bravewriter because it unleashes her creative side, so we use it for that. However, to teach the academic side, I need more nuts and bolts, I think? Maybe the classes are different?

[Farrar]

I know, it's so frustrating. And I have Bravewriter too!! Love the concept and we use a lot of those strategies but I do need more of a "plan." My daughter loves Bravewriter because it unleashes her creative side, so we use it for that. However, to teach the academic side, I need more nuts and bolts, I think? Maybe the classes are different?

 

No.  I haven't done the classes, but I don't think so.  They're based pretty much directly on TWJ.  Since she's ahead of the curve, you could try Help for High School, I guess, and I've heard it's more laid out but I doubt it's going to do the specific skill work you want.

 

I do see what you're wanting...  but I'll challenge you a little BW style...  the BW way of thinking would say that by doing the creative stuff you're building voice and organization and so forth - the things you want to work on.  You're just not going it directly, but it's going to pay off later on in terms of confidence, writing fluency, ability to revise and edit, etc.  All those good BW skills.  And while at some point it may be time for a more structured program to work on more academic writing, the fact that all these programs are so frustrating is an indication that she's not ready right now.

 

The only thing I'll add is that I don't think anyone mentioned MCT.  It's so parts to whole and therefore didn't work for us (we've only tried that first level and you'd need a later one).  However, the thing it has in common with AoPS to me is the giving you a challenge to bend your brain thing.  The writing assignments are all like that in there.  And it has whimsy...  though maybe less in the upper levels.

[Crimson Wife]

Oh, I can so relate! I have a whole shelf full of writing programs and still have yet to find the magic one that will get DD to where I want her to be entering high school (there's a possibility she may attend a selective private school). We did "Lively Art of Writing" with the free workbook at the beginning of this year. That was okay, and certainly the price can't be beat. But I felt like it didn't really address the main issue that DD has with her composition. She struggles to come up with a strong thesis and support it with evidence.

 

I haven't yet decided what we're going to be doing next fall. I've got a couple things on my shelf that I do want to do with her at some point, but I'm not confident she's ready for them just yet. "A Workbook for Arguments" by Morrow and Westin is one. IEW "Windows to the World" with the Jill Pike syllabus is another. Classical Academic Press' "The Argument Builder" might be a good stepping stone to the Morrow & Westin text but I haven't gotten the chance to actually look through a copy of that yet.

[Alte Veste Academy]

The best thing for my AoPS loving kid (who loves novelty and not being told what to do ;) ) has been to use a writing workshop approach. I bring in many different resources, and we discuss, discuss, discuss. I write with him. We often sit side by side in front of the computer, outlining, writing, critiquing, cutting, and pasting. I have used lots of different things, but our favorite resource for this has been Killgallon, in no small part because we started finding and playing with our own models. Next year I am moving my oldest into Write Like This and Image Grammar. They are right up out alley, very rich resources.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Write-Like-This-Teaching-Real-World/dp/1571108963/ref=cm_cr_pr_sims_t

 

http://www.amazon.com/Image-Grammar-Second-Edition-Teaching/dp/0325041741/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t

[Julie of KY]

My AoPS loving kid is liking Bravewriter better than anything we've tried before. As mom, I've very excited about what he is doing with writing through Bravewriter and hope it continues. (He is a severely dysgraphic writing phobic kid.)

[Pen]

We took one online BW class, and it was not at a high level, but was non-fiction based writing not creative writing. I think their classes for essay type writing would be even more that way. If you look up in the Writing Workshop area, there was a recent thread where someone posted what a child had done in a BW mini-reports class, which is a second level of class after the bare intro level, and it could give you an idea, perhaps. 

[happyhome]

No. I haven't done the classes, but I don't think so. They're based pretty much directly on TWJ. Since she's ahead of the curve, you could try Help for High School, I guess, and I've heard it's more laid out but I doubt it's going to do the specific skill work you want.

 

I do see what you're wanting... but I'll challenge you a little BW style... the BW way of thinking would say that by doing the creative stuff you're building voice and organization and so forth - the things you want to work on. You're just not going it directly, but it's going to pay off later on in terms of confidence, writing fluency, ability to revise and edit, etc. All those good BW skills. And while at some point it may be time for a more structured program to work on more academic writing, the fact that all these programs are so frustrating is an indication that she's not ready right now.

 

The only thing I'll add is that I don't think anyone mentioned MCT. It's so parts to whole and therefore didn't work for us (we've only tried that first level and you'd need a later one). However, the thing it has in common with AoPS to me is the giving you a challenge to bend your brain thing. The writing assignments are all like that in there. And it has whimsy... though maybe less in the upper levels.

Hmmmmmm.......not ready right now? I hadn't considered that now very obvious option. Why would a child who loves to write fight every academic program out there? I keep thinking I haven't found the right one, but maybe you're right. Maybe, just maybe, her creative voice is the vehicle for everything else? How do I fight all those voices in my head that say she needs xxxxxx BEFORE she gets to high school? I've tried so hard to "meet her where she's at" but by 8th grade, I start to hear tick tock, tick tock, tick tock. I've got some thinking to do.

[happyhome]

AoPS of writing would be something like have her write a novel and publish it.

Yes, it would be more like write a novel, publish it and then if nobody buys it, toss it around for a few more years and then try again.....repeat!

 

By the way, every time I see your dancing bacon, it makes me smile and helps me relax a bit. Please post on EVERY thread I start :)

[happyhome]

We took one online BW class, and it was not at a high level, but was non-fiction based writing not creative writing. I think their classes for essay type writing would be even more that way. If you look up in the Writing Workshop area, there was a recent thread where someone posted what a child had done in a BW mini-reports class, which is a second level of class after the bare intro level, and it could give you an idea, perhaps.

Headed over to the Writing Workshop now to snoop around. Thanks Pen. You helped me on the writing front with this same kid when I was brand new. We've made progress since then, but here we are again. I guess dd and I will get an "A" for effort. I'll post back soon.

[happyhome]

My AoPS loving kid is liking Bravewriter better than anything we've tried before. As mom, I've very excited about what he is doing with writing through Bravewriter and hope it continues. (He is a severely dysgraphic writing phobic kid.)

I find it ironic that I keep seeing Bravewriter on this thread and that was the FIRST writing program I bought as a homeschooler. Maybe it's back to the beginning? I'll pull it out again first thing in the morning. I remember thinking it was good for early writers and used many things then that we still use today, but I haven't looked again since then. I'll post back again soon. Thanks Julie.

[happyhome]

The best thing for my AoPS loving kid (who loves novelty and not being told what to do ;) ) has been to use a writing workshop approach. I bring in many different resources, and we discuss, discuss, discuss. I write with him. We often sit side by side in front of the computer, outlining, writing, critiquing, cutting, and pasting. I have used lots of different things, but our favorite resource for this has been Killgallon, in no small part because we started finding and playing with our own models. Next year I am moving my oldest into Write Like This and Image Grammar. They are right up out alley, very rich resources.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Write-Like-This-Teaching-Real-World/dp/1571108963/ref=cm_cr_pr_sims_t

 

http://www.amazon.com/Image-Grammar-Second-Edition-Teaching/dp/0325041741/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t

I hear this! Discussion has been our approach so far, mostly because I can't find a specific open and go program. So we discuss the progym from CAP, the approach of CW, the method of WWS, etc., and we write together. I guess I have been concerned that maybe that's not enough going into high school? But, maybe it is. I have Kilgallon for Elementary and Middle. She was beyond that when I took her out of school, but maybe the high school books? I love Kilgallon and my youngers have flourished with this approach. I'll take a look at the other resources you mentioned too and post back. Thank you.

[crazyforlatin]

The best thing for my AoPS loving kid (who loves novelty and not being told what to do ;) ) has been to use a writing workshop approach. I bring in many different resources, and we discuss, discuss, discuss. I write with him. We often sit side by side in front of the computer, outlining, writing, critiquing, cutting, and pasting. I have used lots of different things, but our favorite resource for this has been Killgallon, in no small part because we started finding and playing with our own models. Next year I am moving my oldest into Write Like This and Image Grammar. They are right up out alley, very rich resources.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Write-Like-This-Teaching-Real-World/dp/1571108963/ref=cm_cr_pr_sims_t

 

http://www.amazon.com/Image-Grammar-Second-Edition-Teaching/dp/0325041741/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t

So is Image Grammar a more in-depth version of Killgallon? I've gone back and forth not sure whether to buy IG since the concept is the same as Killgallon's. We love Killgallon (almost purchased the college version).

[Alte Veste Academy]

So is Image Grammar a more in-depth version of Killgallon? I've gone back and forth not sure whether to buy IG since the concept is the same as Killgallon's. We love Killgallon (almost purchased the college version).

It has a similar flavor but goes wider and farther. It will not be open and go like Killgallon, but I have resigned myself to this for the majority of my writing resources. I will say that the included disc is packed to the gills with ready-to-print resources for every chapter of the book. 

 

Have you seen the sample at the publisher's web site? https://www.heinemann.com/products/E04174.aspx

[Crimson Wife]

Perfection Learning does have a workbook to go along with "Image Grammar". I've thought about getting IG + the middle school workbook but I think oldest DD might be beyond that level by now. http://www.perfectionlearning.com/image-grammar-program

[daijobu]

 

By the way, every time I see your dancing bacon, it makes me smile and helps me relax a bit. Please post on EVERY thread I start :)

 

Can I also join the dancing bacon fan club?

[happyhome]

The best thing for my AoPS loving kid (who loves novelty and not being told what to do ;) ) has been to use a writing workshop approach. I bring in many different resources, and we discuss, discuss, discuss. I write with him. We often sit side by side in front of the computer, outlining, writing, critiquing, cutting, and pasting. I have used lots of different things, but our favorite resource for this has been Killgallon, in no small part because we started finding and playing with our own models. Next year I am moving my oldest into Write Like This and Image Grammar. They are right up out alley, very rich resources.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Write-Like-This-Teaching-Real-World/dp/1571108963/ref=cm_cr_pr_sims_t

 

http://www.amazon.com/Image-Grammar-Second-Edition-Teaching/dp/0325041741/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t

Image Grammar makes sense to ME!! This I could teach!! If I'm looking at this correctly, it's heavy on arrangement and elocution, lighter on invention, yes? That is exactly what we need. Part of our problem has been that so many curricula focus on the reluctant writer, breaking things down too much and moving too slowly. That's just not what we need for this kid. I like the "here's what to do, here's how it's been done well, now go do it" approach. Very AoPSish. I'm going to print the samples and show dd.

 

I like Write Like This too but I want to take a closer look at it. They have it at my library so I can go through it next week. Thank you.

[happyhome]

Perfection Learning does have a workbook to go along with "Image Grammar". I've thought about getting IG + the middle school workbook but I think oldest DD might be beyond that level by now. http://www.perfectionlearning.com/image-grammar-program

These guides look great, practical but not too schooly. She hates workbooks so we'll have to see.

[crazyforlatin]

It has a similar flavor but goes wider and farther. It will not be open and go like Killgallon, but I have resigned myself to this for the majority of my writing resources. I will say that the included disc is packed to the gills with ready-to-print resources for every chapter of the book.

 

Have you seen the sample at the publisher's web site? https://www.heinemann.com/products/E04174.aspx

Ah, thank you, that is helpful, and I'll have to read through the massive sample. For writing I always stick to a curriculum and get nervous if I have to wander off. But we've done so well with Killgallon that I would like to expand upon this way of teaching DD.

 

I see that with the discount it'll be cheaper than ordering from amazon.

[crazyforlatin]

Perfection Learning does have a workbook to go along with "Image Grammar". I've thought about getting IG + the middle school workbook but I think oldest DD might be beyond that level by now. http://www.perfectionlearning.com/image-grammar-program

I've seen the samples some time ago. They didn't look that great the last time I looked (maybe we were just getting started with Killgallon), but I see now how it brings some sort of structure to IG for me. I'm going to order IG, look at what the CD offers, and see whether we need this workbook.

[TarynB]

This looks interesting as an intro. I'll look at the sample pages. It uses Thinking in Threes which I have seen recommended here before. Thanks.

 

Just a thought, if you're interested in Blackbird and Co's Intro to Composition, you might want to just buy Thinking in Threes separately (not published by Blackbird, widely available at Amazon, etc. ), since it is quite inexpensive, and give it a go on its own.  If you need or want more guidance and more exercises along the same lines, then spring for Blackbird's program.  I bought Blackbird's program a few weeks ago, and in reading through it in detail now (the samples just aren't enough LOL), I wish I had just bought Thinking in Threes and saved a bundle.

 

Interestingly, Thinking in Threes teaches many of the same concepts (sentence openers, -ly words, and other "dress-ups" to make the writing more interesting) that my son learned through IEW's Student Writing Intensive, which helped his writing a lot when we did that a year or so ago. Different packaging, same concepts.

 

However, Blackbird's program also has a unit on literary analysis, using short children's stories/picture books, and admittedly I haven't examined that section in detail yet.  I probably wouldn't have purchased it just for that unit, but since I have it now, I might run DS through it before doing the lit analysis in Writing With Skill. 

 

HTH.

[deerforest]

Thanks for sharing that about Blackbird..I haven't been able to track down a lot of feedback about it!

[sagira]

Can I also join the dancing bacon fan club?

 

Ha, my DD3 lets out a squeal and giggles whenever she sees it  :001_wub:

 

I came towards here too thinking that an AOPS for Writing would be interesting. Even though I don't have AOPS or think it would be appropriate for us, I think in writing it could be something I would want to look at.

[Farrar]

Ooh, that Image Grammar stuff and the workbook is actually tempting to me.  It looks like you can't get the teacher guide without buying a classroom pack though.  Unless the text is the teacher guide?

[Alte Veste Academy]

I was irritated by that too, until I saw the preview of the TG. I don't think it is a must have, but then again I already own the IG book, so I will have it for prep. The disc in the back of the book has tons of ready made teaching Power Points, hand-outs, and general resources.

[happyhome]

Ooh, that Image Grammar stuff and the workbook is actually tempting to me. It looks like you can't get the teacher guide without buying a classroom pack though. Unless the text is the teacher guide?

Based on what I see on the publisher's website, I think that is the teacher guide. The sample that Alte Veste linked above is written to the teacher, not the student. I'm leaning this way too. I spent the morning going through the sample in detail and it just fits what we do. I can also see it playing out with the youngers as well because they would be part of the discussions simply by being in the room. Not sure about the accompanying workbooks yet. I may just get the IG first and see if we need anything else from there. Good stuff.

[happyhome]

Just a thought, if you're interested in Blackbird and Co's Intro to Composition, you might want to just buy Thinking in Threes separately (not published by Blackbird, widely available at Amazon, etc. ), since it is quite inexpensive, and give it a go on its own. If you need or want more guidance and more exercises along the same lines, then spring for Blackbird's program. I bought Blackbird's program a few weeks ago, and in reading through it in detail now (the samples just aren't enough LOL), I wish I had just bought Thinking in Threes and saved a bundle.

 

Interestingly, Thinking in Threes teaches many of the same concepts (sentence openers, -ly words, and other "dress-ups" to make the writing more interesting) that my son learned through IEW's Student Writing Intensive, which helped his writing a lot when we did that a year or so ago. Different packaging, same concepts.

 

However, Blackbird's program also has a unit on literary analysis, using short children's stories/picture books, and admittedly I haven't examined that section in detail yet. I probably wouldn't have purchased it just for that unit, but since I have it now, I might run DS through it before doing the lit analysis in Writing With Skill.

 

HTH.

Thanks for that feedback. I like Thinking in Threes but I'm not crazy about Blackbird for this kid. It feels a bit like the other programs we've looked at that she didn't like. I could see something like this for my 2nd DD. She likes step by step instruction. But I may still buy the Threes book as a resource for me.

[happyhome]

Ooh, that Image Grammar stuff and the workbook is actually tempting to me. It looks like you can't get the teacher guide without buying a classroom pack though. Unless the text is the teacher guide?

I think I misunderstood you. I thought you were talking about the Image Grammar text. You were talking about the Perfection Learning workbooks? I spoke with them on Friday and a very nice lady said they would be willing to create a "homeschool" pack with only the amount of student books I needed, or no student books at all. The "Teacher's Guide" is the guide for the workbooks. From what she explained, it contains the answers to the exercises and teaching helps.

[ElizabethB]

One Year Adventure Novel?

 

You can find good sentences from any source and do Kilgallon style work with them.

[crazyforlatin]

Based on what I see on the publisher's website, I think that is the teacher guide. The sample that Alte Veste linked above is written to the teacher, not the student. I'm leaning this way too. I spent the morning going through the sample in detail and it just fits what we do. I can also see it playing out with the youngers as well because they would be part of the discussions simply by being in the room. Not sure about the accompanying workbooks yet. I may just get the IG first and see if we need anything else from there. Good stuff.

I couldn't wait for the IG to arrive (ordered directly from the publisher) to see whether a workbook is needed and ordered a used high school workbook through amazon. I compared the scope and sequence of middle school and high school, and as the latter has more topics, I went with it. And the used price was a lot cheaper.

 

I did go through the sample that Alte linked and IG looks very much like a TM of sorts. I hope to receive both soon and will post back, if anyone wants to know what's in the workbook since the sample doesn't give us much.

[happyhome]

One Year Adventure Novel?

 

You can find good sentences from any source and do Kilgallon style work with them.

Oh yes, we love OYAN! She did Cover Story this year and will do OYAN next. That's the creative outlet that allows any academic writing instruction to be possible. She'll revolt otherwise.😠Thanks Elizabeth.

[Trish]

It has a similar flavor but goes wider and farther. It will not be open and go like Killgallon, but I have resigned myself to this for the majority of my writing resources. I will say that the included disc is packed to the gills with ready-to-print resources for every chapter of the book. 

 

Have you seen the sample at the publisher's web site? https://www.heinemann.com/products/E04174.aspx

 

We use Image Grammar also. We just schedule a few pages a day, starting and stopping at natural breaks.

[EndOfOrdinary]

My husband teaches English. He. Drives. Me. Crazy. I am parts to whole. I want a breakdown, to know how to put it together, then practice. He just has his kids write. I am sure there is more to it than that, but it feels that way to me. I would have had to be transferred out of his class in high school. Anyway, this last year he was having real trouble with a Junior English class. His "just write" stuff was not working. After a bit of bickering, we came up with a middle of the road approach.

 

Kids did research about a topic they really didn't know much about.

Kids form some kind of opinion based on everything they have looked up and seen.

Kids wrote a completely persuasive paper without any care to facts or evidence. Just their thoughts.

Then evidence was inserted from the research to explain their thoughts (he made them use notecards, but I suggested Evernote or digital organizing next year since colleges now assume this knowledge)

 

It worked incredibly well. Much better than trying to use only one approach. It allowed for the whole parts kids to be able to begin construction right away, while the parts to whole kids got a bit more structure. It has also shown me that most programs can work for either kid if you step back from the nitty gritty.

 

I have not used Michael Clay Thompson because the price tag scares me, but I have heard it referred to as the AoPS of writing. We are using Kilgallon next year. It works very well with my creative writing kid and has really helped him see that academic sentences can be creatively written..

[happyhome]

My husband teaches English. He. Drives. Me. Crazy. I am parts to whole. I want a breakdown, to know how to put it together, then practice. He just has his kids write. I am sure there is more to it than that, but it feels that way to me. I would have had to be transferred out of his class in high school. Anyway, this last year he was having real trouble with a Junior English class. His "just write" stuff was not working. After a bit of bickering, we came up with a middle of the road approach.

 

Kids did research about a topic they really didn't know much about.

Kids form some kind of opinion based on everything they have looked up and seen.

Kids wrote a completely persuasive paper without any care to facts or evidence. Just their thoughts.

Then evidence was inserted from the research to explain their thoughts (he made them use notecards, but I suggested Evernote or digital organizing next year since colleges now assume this knowledge)

 

It worked incredibly well. Much better than trying to use only one approach. It allowed for the whole parts kids to be able to begin construction right away, while the parts to whole kids got a bit more structure. It has also shown me that most programs can work for either kid if you step back from the nitty gritty.

 

I have not used Michael Clay Thompson because the price tag scares me, but I have heard it referred to as the AoPS of writing. We are using Kilgallon next year. It works very well with my creative writing kid and has really helped him see that academic sentences can be creatively written..

Oh, that sounds great, but that process terrifies me. I need more hand holding than that in the beginning. I've read so many posts here of people who are teaching their 3rd, 4th, 8th kid to write and it seems so effortless for them. I hope I will lose this "deer in headlights" feeling with all the research I'm doing. I can write, but I don't know how I learned it. I just don't remember those long ago days when dinosaurs walked the earth :). Maybe I could do it the way your husband did. It seems organic and fun. I would need a rubric I suppose. I'm re-listening to SWB's writing lectures right now and the whole "what to expect when" is helpful.

 

We love MCT here and we've gone through the EV level. After having met him and attended his conferences, I thought, for sure, we would be using the Academic Writing materials. But then I read 8Fill's review of the upper levels and I'm now questioning that too.

[SnegurochkaL]

AoPS of writing would be something like have her write a novel and publish it.

 

I agree. That is why we decided to try "Cover story" writing program for middle school this year. http:www.oneyearnovel.com

My daughter is writing her own novel so I hope it will help to improve her writing style and teach her something new.

 

[happyhome]

I agree. That is why we decided to try "Cover story" writing program for middle school this year. http:www.oneyearnovel.com

My daughter is writing her own novel so I hope it will help to improve her writing style and teach her something new.

 

Cover Story is terrific. We're finishing it now and moving on to One Year Adventure Novel next year. It's been a great creative outlet for her and she has definitely learned a lot and tightened up her writing. However, it does not provide the academic writing "mechanics" instruction I am looking for at the moment. I'm looking at several resources at the moment and in the meantime, I'm having her read collections of great essays to see where we're headed.

[Kendall]

What great essays is she reading?

[Pen]

How is her academic writing? And are you able to help her make it better?

 

AoPS can provide questions, explanations and a solutions book. No writing program can really provide a "solutions" book in the same way as a math program can.

[mommymilkies]

I'll agree with Bravewriter or Killgallon.  Really, Killgallon is a little more parts to whole IMHO, but still good.  My oldest dd is on her second Bravewriter class and she *loves* it.  She's a very whole to parts VSL (tested as one, too!) and it's been both challenging and really educational for her.  It was well worth the price, and I'll have her do more if I get more money. :)

[EKS]

I'll be taking the Grading with a Purple Crayon approach next year with my 12yo. 

[Kareni]

I'll be taking the Grading with a Purple Crayon approach next year with my 12yo. 

 

That looks intriguing.  Did you also use the author's Out of the Holding Tank: A Balanced Program of Language Arts for Homeschooling Middle School Students?

 

Regards,

Kareni

[happyhome]

What great essays is she reading?

These two books are on the Honors syllabus at a local private school....I'm teaching from the first source and using selections from the second to answer the "why do I need this?" questions. This creative writing DD is finally seeing the value of academic writing and this has helped.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Hundred-Essays-Penguin-Academics-Edition/dp/0205706800/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1401277617&sr=8-8&keywords=Great+essays

 

http://www.amazon.com/Best-American-Essays-Century-Series/dp/0618155872/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1401277617&sr=8-7&keywords=Great+essays

[happyhome]

I'll be taking the Grading with a Purple Crayon approach next year with my 12yo.

This looks interesting Kai. Is it a teacher resource? I'd love to see a sample or a TOC list. Are you using The Reader's Odyssey too?

[EKS]

That looks intriguing.  Did you also use the author's Out of the Holding Tank: A Balanced Program of Language Arts for Homeschooling Middle School Students?

 

Regards,

Kareni

 

I'm going to try The Reader's Odyssey next year as well.

 

[happyhome]

How is her academic writing? And are you able to help her make it better?

 

AoPS can provide questions, explanations and a solutions book. No writing program can really provide a "solutions" book in the same way as a math program can.

Her academic writing is good but it needs more depth and originality. She hates academic writing and finds it boring, an opinion largely left over from public school, so she puts words on paper just to get it done. I know she can do more. She loves creative writing and is a born storyteller, but she finds academic writing tedious and limiting. I have been trying it inspire her to see what academic writing can be, how it is used in unique ways and for purposes that cannot be accomplished with fiction. She's coming around a bit.

 

When I brought her home, she hated math too. Now, thanks to AoPS and their amazing community, she has worked through a book and a half in one year and does math for fun. I'm looking for that spark in academic writing. I don't really need solutions, per say, just a roadmap; the format of whole to parts, being able to "play" with something to figure out how it works, no kill and drill.

 

Here's what I'm trying to overcome.....when I ask her for literary analysis of any kind, she says it ruins the story. She'll talk about the book all day long and her thoughts and ideas are quite good; she'll debate it, analyze it and re tell it perfectly, but she says that writing it all down "takes the magic out of it." If I ask for an essay on an historical figure, she asks if she can write an historical fiction story around that figure. She says nobody wants to read a boring essay on somebody, they want that person to come to life. Now, she's not snarky or defiant about any of this. She is a partner to me in trying to figure out where we go from here. We've done this with every learning area since she came out of school and she loves what she's doing now. Writing is just one area that hasn't come as easy as the others.

 

I'm struggling because I know she can do this but she was taught to hate it so she just doesn't put her normal level of creativity and thoughtfulness into it. If I can get her to see the big picture, I know the parts will fall into place.

 

I've been following all the suggestions in this thread and researching and talking with her, and I think I'm going to create my own structure for her. I'm not final yet but I'll post it when I've worked it through a bit more.