Sensitive topic: just a curious kid? UPDATE: Follow-up question in post 27

[Joanne]

Then, is breastfeeding a 6 year old is abuse? Because breastfeeding involves at least some skin to skin, and even if it isn't done totally in the nude, it does involved at least some of the breast exposed.

What about breastfeeding a 5 yo?

A 4 yo?

I breasted my kids for years-not months.

In those years, I saw a LOT of parents who "extended" breasted with very relaxed boundaries. I thought a percentage of the situations were poor choices developmentally for the children. IMO, the "alternative" parenting culture puts immunity around nursing in terms of limits. I find the dynamic unhealthy and potentially but not necessarily abuse.

[FaithManor]

I think that regardless of views of extended breastfeeding and when to wean, states, social workers, medical personnel, and mental health care professionals probably look at the health guidelines and see 18 months to two years as a healthy guideline so three years would probably be considered "extended" and four years on the outside of that slightly due to formative memories really beginning to form, and five...definitely six being considered abnormal and while possibly alone not deemed a problem, if considered with other criteria such as child repeatedly sneaks off with friend and tries to convince said friend to expose privates, or requesting disrobing of parent - not that the parent is already in tbe shower and said kid pops in to use the restroom, or barges in while mom is changing, or she forgot her robe and darted down tbe hall, etc. - but actually requests this as a condition of falling asleep, then it migbt be taken as a warning that something isn't right.

I am not extending an opinion about bf. to that age, but merely expressing how it might be viewed in the context of other things.

[maize]

I think that regardless of views of extended breastfeeding and when to wean, states, social workers, medical personnel, and mental health care professionals probably look at the health guidelines and see 18 months to two years as a healthy guideline so three years would probably be considered "extended" and four years on the outside of that slightly due to formative memories really beginning to form, and five...definitely six being considered abnormal and while possibly alone not deemed a problem, if considered with other criteria such as child repeatedly sneaks off with friend and tries to convince said friend to expose privates, or requesting disrobing of parent - not that the parent is already in tbe shower and said kid pops in to use the restroom, or barges in while mom is changing, or she forgot her robe and darted down tbe hall, etc. - but actually requests this as a condition of falling asleep, then it migbt be taken as a warning that something isn't right.

I am not extending an opinion about bf. to that age, but merely expressing how it might be viewed in the context of other things.

And why exactly would memories of receiving nourishment at mother's breast be considered problematic???

[Guest submarines]

And why exactly would memories of receiving nourishment at mother's breast be considered problematic???
 

 

:iagree: This ties in again with the culture of breastfeeding = shameful. My older kids remember being breastfed and remember me breastfeeding the youngest--cherished memories for all.

[Joanne]

:iagree: This ties in again with the culture of breastfeeding = shameful. My older kids remember being breastfed and remember me breastfeeding the youngest--cherished memories for all.

My kids remember. I do not find this a problem.

[FaithManor]

You know what folks! Put on your big girl panties. Read what I said. I did not offer an opinion or SAY that it WAS a problem. I indicated, knowing several social workers and more than one child therapist myself, and knowing the cultural bias in this country, HOW it could be perceived under a specific set of circumstances. I never said it was right or that I felt that way, just stated - again having done respite care for foster parents and as such been around A LOT of social workers and family therapists - how many of them might perceive it and in particular light of this child's other issues.

 

It's not any one specific thing in this case but the sum of them together.

 

GAH! Maybe I need to take a break from the chat board.

[DawnM]

I would be calling social services.  I make no apologies for that.  Others may disagree and that is fine.  However, I would let the authorities decide whether it is worth investigating.

 

The child is 6.  He is asking her to bare her breasts so that he can touch them while naked, whether by hands or by skin contact, it is still contact.  And she is not breastfeeding so I am not sure why that plays into this discussion.  

 

The child is also asking other children to show him their private parts and he wants to show his.  

 

I feel gross just reading this account of nakedness and amount of erections in a 6 year old.

 

Dawn

[SeaConquest]

To be clear, I see the red flags others have discussed, and agree that I would take action. I'm reacting to the blanket statement that my 5 yr old climbing into bed with my husband and I sans clothes, or showering with me, without more is inappropriate, boundariless, and constitutes abuse. This was the opinion expressed here, and it was expressed without qualification. And I take issue with it.

[Alexigail]

What does any of this have to do with breastfeeding????

 

 Context matters, and  in this case it matters a lot.  Some of what is being described here is troubling.  Perhaps any one of these things on it's own is explainable but in combination, it amounts to red flags for me.  Abuse can develop gradually through unhealthy relationships and lack of clear boundaries. Whether or not any of these discrete actions constitute abuse is less to the point than the whole picture signaling that

 

a) Unhealthy relationships are being built and the child in question is at the very least confused about appropriate boundaries within a friendship and

b)The OP's own child is being affected by this child's behavior, and 

c) The OP's child was uncomfortable or confused enough to discuss it with an adult

 

So the question isn't whether extended breastfeeding is abusive or whether nudity in general is abusive.  Rather, the focus should be on what the OP should do in this very specific case to protect/ educate first her own child and second her child's friend whose mother has confided in her.  Deciding what one's responsibility is in a situation like this is stressful and difficult.

 

OP, my advice is to speak to a social worker, doctor or counselor first to decide what the best course of action is.  Unless you're a professional, I wouldn't try to advise or counsel this mother on your own.  I would also insist on supervising all visits with this family if you chose to continue to associate with them.  

 

Good Luck!  This must be a really tough place to be as a mom.

 

 

 

 

[maize]

You know what folks! Put on your big girl panties. Read what I said. I did not offer an opinion or SAY that it WAS a problem. I indicated, knowing several social workers and more than one child therapist myself, and knowing the cultural bias in this country, HOW it could be perceived under a specific set of circumstances. I never said it was right or that I felt that way, just stated - again having done respite care for foster parents and as such been around A LOT of social workers and family therapists - how many of them might perceive it and in particular light of this child's other issues.

 

It's not any one specific thing in this case but the sum of them together.

 

GAH! Maybe I need to take a break from the chat board.

 

I understood that you were not holding this up as your personal opinion, but why would viewing breastfeeding past the point when a child might remember the experience as problematic be seen as an acceptable professional opinion for a social worker or therapist? This indicates to me serious problems in our society's conceptualization of the nurturing role of a woman's breasts.

 

But yes we have veered far from the original topic...

[FaithManor]

I understood that you were not holding this up as your personal opinion, but why would viewing breastfeeding past the point when a child might remember the experience as problematic be seen as an acceptable professional opinion for a social worker or therapist? This indicates to me serious problems in our society's conceptualization of the nurturing role of a woman's breasts.

 

But yes we have veered far from the original topic...

I am not saying I know why! I am saying that it is what it is in America.

 

I didn't develop American culture, and I'm not a professional anthropologist. And again, I said that it ALONE was not the criteria but in conjunction with the other issues in the picture. I'm not saying the social workers that I have worked with are right nor the therapists. I am just saying it is what it is.

 

I don't have an answer for you as to how this became an issue in this culture.

 

Taken in a larger context, I don't know how many cultures breastfeed to five or six years of age. I've heard of three and even four being common. I have not heard of five or six. So I don't know if there would be issues in other countries with this or not. Not well informed enough on the topic of breastfeeding norms in all parts of the world to know. Just stating, again, that in OP's context that there are other concerns, and IN AMERICA no less, professionals would look dimly on the practice whether or not this is appropriate or not, I have no idea all things considered.

[Guest submarines]

You know what folks! Put on your big girl panties. Read what I said. I did not offer an opinion or SAY that it WAS a problem. I indicated, knowing several social workers and more than one child therapist myself, and knowing the cultural bias in this country, HOW it could be perceived under a specific set of circumstances. I never said it was right or that I felt that way, just stated - again having done respite care for foster parents and as such been around A LOT of social workers and family therapists - how many of them might perceive it and in particular light of this child's other issues.

 

It's not any one specific thing in this case but the sum of them together.

 

GAH! Maybe I need to take a break from the chat board.

 

I understood what you were saying, and I agree with the general idea of your post. I did pick on the detail about remembering being breastfed as being problematic--I know it is rather off topic, and was not the main point of your post anyway, however I was compelled to comment on it.

[Heatherwith4]

I don't think this is even related to breast feeding.

Looking at the big picture here (everything the OP has posted that she's been told by the mom and her own DS) there are major issues going on here. I absolutely would not allow my kids to be around this family anymore, for their own protection.

My question is re: calling CPS. What would they do? If they removed the child, would that be worse? I think if I was told something like this by another mom, it would be a hard decision whether or not to call CPS.

[Harriet Vane]

I don't think this is even related to breast feeding.

Looking at the big picture here (everything the OP has posted that she's been told by the mom and her own DS) there are major issues going on here. I absolutely would not allow my kids to be around this family anymore, for their own protection.

My question is re: calling CPS. What would they do? If they removed the child, would that be worse? I think if I was told something like this by another mom, it would be a hard decision whether or not to call CPS.

 

There is nothing hard about this decision. Calling DCFS is NOT taking someone's child. Removal of a child from the home does NOT happen nearly as often as some people think. Calling DCFS is asking someone with training to shine a light on the red flags that are present and figure out if this is a clueless mom or if there is abuse. Neighbors who really don't know the family well really have NO meaningful way to determine if there is abuse. If there are red flags--and in this case there are screaming, blaring, red flags--then an investigation really does need to happen. The call needs to be made.

[IdahoHomeschooler]

 

On the other hand, I also know children who were sexually abused by their mothers, and this may be politically incorrect to say, but a woman without a partner is more likely to 'blur the line' than one who is married or in a long term relationship.

 

 

Wow. This is not just 'politically incorrect' to say, it is downright offensive! I'm curious, what are the facts and statistics that you used to come up with this assertion?

[Joanne]

There is nothing hard about this decision. Calling DCFS is NOT taking someone's child. Removal of a child from the home does NOT happen nearly as often as some people think. Calling DCFS is asking someone with training to shine a light on the red flags that are present and figure out if this is a clueless mom or if there is abuse. Neighbors who really don't know the family well really have NO meaningful way to determine if there is abuse. If there are red flags--and in this case there are screaming, blaring, red flags--then an investigation really does need to happen. The call needs to be made.

 

Good post. A lot of people don't call and try to determine if there is abuse and to what degree it may be abuse. That is the role of the professionals you call, and not necessary (and possibly detrimental) to take on  yourself.

[Joanne]

But, Joanne, you said that irrespective of the other red flags, there was abuse. So, this is a bright line rule for you? No showering or sleeping nude with kids after toddlerhood/preschool under any circumstances? Because, I can tell you among my crunchy Southern California crowd back home (we're currently in Puerto Vallarta), my family is not outside the norm. I can understand that not everyone lives this way, but we live on a sailboat. No bath tubs and not much privacy.

 

Can you show me where I said that? I have searched the thread and I do not see that at all.

[1GirlTwinBoys]

I really find the whole thing very strange and not "healthy".  We are a co-sleeping family so I have no problem with that at all.  I do think once your children reach a certain age, it's just not appropriate to be sleeping and laying with them if you're not wearing clothes, jammies, etc...  I really believe doing things like that can mess a child up mentally when they are older.  Who wants to have memories of laying naked with their parents???  That's the kind of stuff that will have you in therapy sessions as an adult.  What's right is right and what's wrong is wrong in my opinion.  This is just wrong! 

 

ETA:  I'm not saying you should notify CPS because I'm not in the situation or know both sides.  I just think it's simply common sense that it's one of those things you just don't do.

[SeaConquest]

OP, this child is being sexually abused. Even if what you describe she reported is the extent of it, it is abuse.

I am very casual about nudity and co-sleeping (at least for the US). And what you describe is very abnormal. That she'd mention it demonstrates an abnormal engagement with sex, bodies, sexuality. There is NO reason for her to mention her son's erections (which, at 6, happen but frequent and needing to be naked?????) and for her to go topless with with him naked in the same bed is absurdly, alarmingly over the line.

Report this family and stay away.

 

 

Once again, OP, even if the mom is merely clueless - it is still sexual abuse. Passive boundaryless on this issue is abuse; the child is given access to an adult female body when firm boundaries are necessary.

 

But it's more than that. This is a very sexualized 6 year old.

 

 

I believe that bedroom clothes when minors are sleeping in the room  or bed are needed from toddlerhood. (And I nursed my kids and co-slept well beyond that). IIRC, I showered with them as preschoolers.

 

OTOH, "nudity in general", I respect other approaches but I am casual about it. So are my boys, but my dd is not. Therefore the boys respect her wishes, and she "wins" the level of dress standard.

 

 

This child has requested the nudity. That is odd; granting it is abuse.

I stand by sleeping naked with school aged children in America is inappropriate. ETA: I went back to read the post in which I used those words and I stand by that post, which was specific to the info concerning this child and mother.

Later, I address the issue more broadly but not with that language.

 

Perhaps you did not intend to convey this message when you posted above, but it seems to me that you are saying that sleeping and showering with my naked 5 year old is inappropriate, without boundaries, and abusive.

 

Are you saying otherwise? 

[Guest submarines]

The woman in question is the OP's friend and looks up to her. The advice here is to immediately report her. What a scary world we live in, when a friend is told to report a friend, rather than talk to her first. Considering how "friendly" CPS are to co-sleeping in general, even if there were no red flags, this child and his family could be damaged beyond repair, for many years to come, if not forever. Their family could be damaged even if the SPS find nothing of concern other than the co-sleeping. Friends don't do this to friends, period. Friends don't do this to friends. I'll repeat this one more time. Friends don't do this to friends. Not only that, but this kind of advice is beyond disgusting, and it is not motivated by care or concern, but by a perverted sense of what's "right."

 

The OP's friend deserves to know that there are concerns about her practices. I'm not saying that this is not a CPS worthy case. I simply don't know, and no one here, including the OP knows. The OP's friend deserves a chance to start making better choices.

[Alessandra]

 

 

GAH! Maybe I need to take a break from the chat board.

 

Please don't. I like your posts.

[vonfirmath]

We don't co-sleep, but my 6-year old son does end up in bed with us sometimes (Last night I didn't even wake up when he came in. When I do, I send him back to his bed after some time for comforting/making sure he's okay.) Sometimes he even sleeps shirtless. That part does not bother me.

 

Even when I'm tempted NOT to take the energy to put on a nightgown, though, I Do because I know its a possibility he will end up in our bed and I don't want to be unclothed in that instance.  There are times he ends up in a restroom with me. But it's not normal and only when there are no other options. We've started teaching him about privacy and what is and is not inappropriate.

 

So I guess -- the son's nudity in bed with mom does not bother me. The mom's nudity (esp the REGULARNESS of it, and at her son's request!) is weird. Her mentioning it to you is pretty weird too!

[Joanne]

Perhaps you did not intend to convey this message when you posted above, but it seems to me that you are saying that sleeping and showering with my naked 5 year old is inappropriate, without boundaries, and abusive.

 

Are you saying otherwise? 

 

Yes. If you read my posts, they are clear. I used the term abuse relative to the OP and inappropriate to sleeping naked with older-than-preschool children.

 

You are lumping all my posts to the OP into some erroneous conclusion about extended breastfeeding, casual nudity, and co-sleeping. Your conclusions and wording about my opinion are not substantiated by what I actually said.

[Plink]

I think everyone is missing the point here. The focus should not be on the mom, but the child. He is complaining of pain in his private areas, sneaking around to see other boys, and requesting overly sexual behavior from his mom. He is in need of help.

The mom may or may not be the abuser, but that doesn't really matter. The boy seems to have some very obvious signs of having been abused by someone and he needs help to stay safe.

Please report this (Said by someone who had an abuser in the family. Nobody wanted to be the one to cause waves so he was allowed to do as he wished until the day he died. Sad but true.)

[texasmama]

The general public is charged with reporting the SUSPICION of child abuse or neglect.  No more, no less.

 

As a mandatory reporter, a social worker, and a therapist (yes, I am all three), I am charged with reporting the SUSPICION of child abuse or neglect.  No more, no less.

 

It is acceptable and important and valid for people in the general public to report the suspicion of child abuse or neglect and not to agonize over results of investigations or whether or not something "qualifies" as a report to CPS.  It is better to err on the side of protection of children when there is no actual harm to children than to neglect to report based on fear of what qualifies as abuse or fear of consequences to the family or fear of CPS in general. 

 

If I had knowledge of this family and what the OP knows, I would report it to CPS.  I would not accuse the mother of abuse.  I would report the information reported to me by the mother and behavior of the child.  CPS can sort out the rest - or not, if they decide it is not investigation-worthy, and that varies a great deal from state to state and even county to county.

 

 

 

 

 

[TianXiaXueXiao]

What is all this navel gazing about? We are discussing the well being of a child who is clearly highly sexualized and currently the op has some very important choices to make on behalf of this child. It is not her position to counsel this woman unless she is licensed to do so. OP just needs our support and the child needs our prayers. Hugs to you, op. May you be led by wisdom and girded with strength to do the right thing.

[SeaConquest]

Yes. If you read my posts, they are clear. I used the term abuse relative to the OP and inappropriate to sleeping naked with older-than-preschool children.

 

You are lumping all my posts to the OP into some erroneous conclusion about extended breastfeeding, casual nudity, and co-sleeping. Your conclusions and wording about my opinion are not substantiated by what I actually said.

 

I see, so my husband and I are just being inappropriate vs. abusive. Forgive me if I still feel that statement is incredibly judgmental.

 

We live in the tropics. It's 80+ degrees at night during the winter, plus humidity. I won't even begin to tell you about the summer. Suffice to say, no one is wearing "bed clothes" if they would like to get any sleep in that kind of heat. My son also recently had to transition to life in another country and a little brother, so he's wanted a little extra comfort from his father and I of late.

 

Certainly, when my son begins to show some modesty about his body or mine, we will cover up. But, I'm not going to make a big deal about nudity while it is simply a nonissue. Children develop in very different ways, and I prefer to allow that maturation to occur organically vs. arbitrarily, based on someone else's definition of normal for X age. He's never exposed his genitals to another person, and has no interest in sex (beyond wondering where babies came from while I was pregnant with his younger brother). I don't see any reason for concern and would change course if I ever did. I suppose that I find it more inappropriate to make broad generalizations about how other families should live, without context or knowledge of specifics.  

[Joanne]

I see, so my husband and I are just being inappropriate vs. abusive. Forgive me if I still feel that statement is incredibly judgmental.

 

We live in the tropics. It's 80+ degrees at night during the winter, plus humidity. I won't even begin to tell you about the summer. Suffice to say, no one is wearing "bed clothes" if they would like to get any sleep in that kind of heat. My son also recently had to transition to life in another country and a little brother, so he's wanted a little extra comfort from his father and I of late.

 

Certainly, when my son begins to show some modesty about his body or mine, we will cover up. But, I'm not going to make a big deal about nudity while it is simply a nonissue. Children develop in very different ways, and I prefer to allow that maturation to occur organically vs. arbitrarily, based on someone else's definition of normal for X age. He's never exposed his genitals to another person, and has no interest in sex (beyond wondering where babies came from while I was pregnant with his younger brother). I don't see any reason for concern and would change course if I ever did. I suppose that I find it more inappropriate to make broad generalizations about how other families should live, without context or knowledge of specifics.  

 

You are reacting to stuff that does not exist from me or my posts in this thread. My posts about my opinion and my own choices run counter to your statements and reactions above.

Just this past October, my son (19 next week) had to help me into the shower (clearly I was naked) until I was stable enough to do it myself. That same son could read before he weaned. In Arizona.

[ktgrok]

I wanted to clarify -- he doesn't wear underwear EVER because of the er*ction issue. This wasn't related to bedtime wear (or lack thereof). She also mentioned that he often holds his hands in front of himself to hide the er*ction and complains that it hurts. I have boys and I know that they get them occasionally from infancy onwards (and more frequently as puberty starts) but I don't know what to make of what she has shared about her son's experience. 

Ok...all this added to this new thing...I'd be suspicious of abuse. 

 

Keep in mind, I played "doctor" as a kid and did the I'll show you yours, you show me mine. I get it can be normal. But you seem to think it happens excessively. 

 

I cosleep with my kids. I have nursed to almost age 4. I know people that nursed to age 5. But the way you are phrasing this is he wants to snuggle with her bare breasts...it's a bit weird. Even long term nursing moms start putting boundaries around their own body before this age. 

 

Finally, yes, boys get erections fairly often. Yes, it can be normal for it to be painful if there is an issue with the circumcision being tight, or issues with foreskin separation if intact. 

 

However......all of those things together....excessively obsessed with genitals of other kids, wanting to be naked with adults who are naked, and a penis that hurts...adds up to a credible worry about abuse. 

[ktgrok]

At what age do you feel the bedroom nudity is inappropriate? I have a 5 year old son who often comes into bed with my husband and I in the middle of the night, and it would never occur to us to put clothes on (we currently live in the tropics). I always thought kids developed modesty on their own for the most part, but this thread has me concerned.

 

The difference is, in my mind, that you didn't bother to get dressed, versus you were dressed and he asked you to take your clothes back off. That would be weird, right?

[ktgrok]

I think everyone is missing the point here. The focus should not be on the mom, but the child. He is complaining of pain in his private areas, sneaking around to see other boys, and requesting overly sexual behavior from his mom. He is in need of help.

The mom may or may not be the abuser, but that doesn't really matter. The boy seems to have some very obvious signs of having been abused by someone and he needs help to stay safe.

Please report this (Said by someone who had an abuser in the family. Nobody wanted to be the one to cause waves so he was allowed to do as he wished until the day he died. Sad but true.)

 

Agreed. There is a chance the ex is the abuser, or maybe a grandpa (that maybe abused mom too!), we don't know. But that kid needs someone to check on him, check him out mentally and physically, and the only way to assure that is to call and report this. 

[SeaConquest]

The difference is, in my mind, that you didn't bother to get dressed, versus you were dressed and he asked you to take your clothes back off. That would be weird, right?

Yes, it would be weird. I'm not disputing the red flags here at all.

As far as erections, this would seem to vary widely. If a child is wearing a lot of clothes, I would imagine a parent wouldn't really know. But, if the boy is running around naked quite a lot, it would be more obvious. Because we live at the beach, I'm around a lot of naked or semi-naked kids in the boating/beachy/swimming community, and frequent erections seem pretty normal to me. I asked my husband and he agreed. I certainly don't think it's rare, at least in my experience.

[Joanne]

That's been my experience as well.  And nobody has ever complained about pain.

 

To be fair, the description of the kid, skin and sensation rang "sensory" issues to me. In that regard, I can understand how an erection up against undies would bug a sensory kid.

[ktgrok]

Right. Any one thing...fine. 

 

but "wants to see other's gentials every time he seems them, insists his mother strip her clothing off so he can touch her breasts, and has a penis that hurts", I mean, what ELSE would you need to think abuse? a video of the event?

[FO4UR]

Report it.  

 

 

[unsinkable]

I don't think 6 is too old for exploration type play. I'm surprised that people think it is. It seems like it is kind of in the middle, age wise. I also don't think that the fact the boy keeps asking about it is a warning sign. He's six. Six year olds don't stop or obey the first time you tell them to.

The erection issues could either be a medical issue or a sensory thing. I'd advise the mom to ask the boy's doctor.

Co-sleeping is not a red flag. The boy asking the mom to cuddle skin to skin is something she should say no to, but him asking might also be a sensory thing.

I think a frank heart-to-heart talk with the mom is in order. I would not call CPS based on these things until I talked with the mom.

[Heatherwith4]

whoa

I'm trying my best to be open minded here and not overreact, but whoa....I didn't know 6 year olds get frequent e's. My kids have never asked to sleep skin to skin with me or if I would take off my shirt.

I didn't think they did, either.

[Heatherwith4]

There is nothing hard about this decision. Calling DCFS is NOT taking someone's child. Removal of a child from the home does NOT happen nearly as often as some people think. Calling DCFS is asking someone with training to shine a light on the red flags that are present and figure out if this is a clueless mom or if there is abuse. Neighbors who really don't know the family well really have NO meaningful way to determine if there is abuse. If there are red flags--and in this case there are screaming, blaring, red flags--then an investigation really does need to happen. The call needs to be made.

Yes, I'm aware that they wouldn't necessarily remove the child. However, the possibility is there that they could.

[texasmama]

I think this is where people of good conscience differ.  I know of a case where CPS did tremendous harm just in their investigation, so what I would do is obviously colored by that.  So I would weigh the potential trauma of a child being questioned, a child fearing their parent is in trouble, or a child being removed even for one night for an investigation as potential harm.  It's that potential harm I would consider in deciding to report to CPS.  I flat out don't trust CPS to make sound decisions in many cases, mostly because the evidence is often circumstantial in these cases.  I am also suspicious of infringement of family privacy and don't think family privacy should be invaded without hard evidence.  My trust in CPS is further hampered by stuff like this (specifically, posts 11 and 19):

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/509315-update-on-justina-pelletier-teen-taken-by-boston-childrens-hospital/?p=5556377

  

You and I are going to differ, then.

[momto10blessings]

Is this kid in school? Can you talk to his counselor in school with your concerns? No idea how it works, may be privacy issue. But they may have concerns as well and need to hear these issues to put 2 and 2 together

[ChocolateReignRemix]

The woman in question is the OP's friend and looks up to her. The advice here is to immediately report her. What a scary world we live in, when a friend is told to report a friend, rather than talk to her first. Considering how "friendly" CPS are to co-sleeping in general, even if there were no red flags, this child and his family could be damaged beyond repair, for many years to come, if not forever. Their family could be damaged even if the SPS find nothing of concern other than the co-sleeping. Friends don't do this to friends, period. Friends don't do this to friends. I'll repeat this one more time. Friends don't do this to friends. Not only that, but this kind of advice is beyond disgusting, and it is not motivated by care or concern, but by a perverted sense of what's "right."

 

The OP's friend deserves to know that there are concerns about her practices. I'm not saying that this is not a CPS worthy case. I simply don't know, and no one here, including the OP knows. The OP's friend deserves a chance to start making better choices.

 

I am more scared of a world where a child is showing signs of abuse and it becomes acceptable to not report anything to CPS due to "friendship."

[ktgrok]

I don't think 6 is too old for exploration type play. I'm surprised that people think it is. It seems like it is kind of in the middle, age wise. I also don't think that the fact the boy keeps asking about it is a warning sign. He's six. Six year olds don't stop or obey the first time you tell them to.

The erection issues could either be a medical issue or a sensory thing. I'd advise the mom to ask the boy's doctor.

Co-sleeping is not a red flag. The boy asking the mom to cuddle skin to skin is something she should say no to, but him asking might also be a sensory thing.

I think a frank heart-to-heart talk with the mom is in order. I would not call CPS based on these things until I talked with the mom.

I'm curious, if this isn't enough to investigate further, what WOULD be enough? What would you have to see/know before reporting?

[unsinkable]

I'm curious, if this isn't enough to investigate further, what WOULD be enough? What would you have to see/know before reporting?

If there was a significant age differential between the boys, with coercion and aggression leading to unwanted genital contact. Right now, the boy is asking.

If the mom completely refused to consider asking medical advice about the painful erections. If the mom continued to act like the shirtless cuddling was no big deal even after Janie Grace told her it crossed physical, personal and emotional boundaries.

[Trish]

That would certainly be TMI for me.

 

Sounds like there's just "too much" of a lot of stuff going on over there!

 

I'd be inclined to keep my child away just knowing that what this woman thinks is appropriate to do (and share) is way different from what I would think is appropriate to do or share. And you can't really expect your child to have to make judgment calls when the outcome really matters. Yes you train them how to react to certain situations, but you don't put them into those sketchy situations on purpose.

[Guest Mice removal and eviction]

I'm coming out of lurking to say, this situation has a ton of red flags. I would call CPS. I think the mom probably is lacking boundaries, not actively sexually abusing her child. If she was sexually abusing the child, I think she wouldn't have been so casually mention it to the original poster. Most pedophiles lie, minimize, and hide their actions and coach the child to lie or keep secrets. The mother sounds like she would benefit from parenting classes and some counseling, which is the job of CPS.

[IHaveNoIdeawhatIAmDoing]

I'm not sure why you wouldn't talk to her before doing something drastic, like calling CPS. It sounds like the first time you spoke with her she was receptive and open to advice. She may have no idea that boundaries are being crossed. 

[8circles]

I have no problem with parents sleeping nude or kids sleeping nude or nude kids coming into nude-sleeping parent's bed at night.  This is not that.  This is being nude together in order to reap the mutual sensations of being nude together.  Vastly different scenario.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

I'd talk to the mom first, since she is a friend. And based on that conversation decide if I should call CPS. I would likely end up calling, but I'd still want to talk first.

[8circles]

nm 

 

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I'm the mother of six boys, all over the age of six. No, boys don't "frequently" get e's. "Occasionally" to "rarely" is how I would phrase it.

Sensory issue, or in my son's case, a lack of wearing underwear causing extreme sensitivity.

Not wearing undies and constantly rubbing on pants made him so sensitive that he wasn't able to wash well without what he said was pain. Boxer briefs solved the entire issue.