s/o Those of you that think gas prices should equal Europe's

[Jane in NC]

Winter biking funny for the day:

 

It was 32F when I mounted my bicycle to ride to the bird rehabilitation shelter this morning.  My route takes me through a salt marsh which I cross on a wooden pedestrian walkway. Bicyclists are asked to dismount and walk their bikes on the walkway as a courtesy to pedestrians.  What I did not anticipate was that the morning condensation would form a solid sheet of ice on the wood!  There is an arch that rises over the slough to allow boats to pass underneath.  I tried to walk up it, holding on to my bike, and slid directly down again.  I ended up doing the discourteous thing by riding up the arch, giving a shout out to the one pedestrian on the walkway (while wondering what kind of shoes gave her traction). 

 

Fortunately the ice had melted upon my return.  By the way, the salt marsh was bedazzling today!

[Χά�ων]

My grocery uses local produce; in fact, the owners have their own organic farm. :) And they have a policy to stock only foods that are organic / sustainable / as close to nature as possible. But the flip side is that I have to drive for a half hour to get to their store, and I can only eat the quickly perishable produce for a few days. (So far nobody has died over not having fresh berries for a week or two.) There are much closer stores along my usual daily driving route, but buying there encourages things I prefer not to encourage. So yes, it is a balance.

 

As far as education goes, I found a farm only 5 miles from my home that offers camps to teach kids about food production, etc. (along with horse riding). Of course we do have to drive there if we want to benefit from this. There's also a "farm park" in a nearby county, perhaps 20 miles away. Again, we have to drive there if we want a hands-on experience. I can't do it in my backyard.

Huh, IME fresh, organic produce lasts a lot longer. I have kept lettuce for a month in my fridge. Berries among most other types of produce can be frozen to extend their life.

 

A visit to a farm park is not relevent.

 

5 miles is doable to walk for a 7 and nearly 7 year old. At 14 months DS could handle the walk to and from the elementry playground 1/2 mile from my house. He started walking at 10months.

[Jane in NC]

Hard to eat local when there is nothing local this time of the year where I am.

 

Of course, that is why your mileage will vary.  Also, I know people like Faith who live in northern climes are still eating local since she freezes, cans and dehydrates much of her garden produce.  But you don't have to do that, OK? These are possibilities for some who might be interested.

[Jane in NC]

Sorry, I'm just a little burnt out from the attitudes that I could do it if I just tried harder. 

 

I should not project that onto you!  Again, sorry.

 

No worries.

[SKL]

5 miles is doable to walk for a 7 and nearly 7 year old. At 14 months DS could handle the walk to and from the elementry playground 1/2 mile from my house. He started walking at 10months.

 

Sure, once in a while.  My kids at 1.5 were walking a couple of miles, up and down hills, when I had the time to walk them to the park.  They started walking at 15mos.  They were also just potty trained at 1.5 (diaper free), so time was of the essence, but we did it.  For what that's worth.  However, my youngest hated and hates being forced to do much physical exertion (even though I've never allowed her to be a couch potato).  She has some physical issues that make it harder for her.

 

It would take an incredibly long time for my kids to walk 10 miles (there and back), and it's not happening in any kind of "weather."  They also wouldn't have much energy left for the work at the farm, let alone anything else we might want to do.  As for me, I'm 47 years old with arthritis and scoliosis.  Besides, I work 7 days per week and my boss would not let me play around like that all day.  No way no how.  And again, the little bit of freeway driving to get there and back are not causing an oil crisis.

 

If you want to get picky, my sister has biked 200 miles at a shot when she was younger.  Maybe you and your son should do that instead of driving to his appointments, in all kinds of weather.  I mean, how irresponsible to drive when it is *possible* to do otherwise.  That's about how you sound picking on my five mile freeway drive.

 

It's this extreme kind of talk that makes people unwilling to have this discussion in a productive way.

 

I recall a guy in NYC who was in the news because he and his family were living on as little resources as possible.  Among other things, they crapped in a pot and took the crap to the roof of their apartment house to use it for planting.  That way they didn't have to flush the toilet.  All I could think was, what if everyone in NYC did that?  Wouldn't that be super.  Blech.  There's leadership, and then there is extremism.

[Ann.without.an.e]

As far as I know, tax on petrol in the UK goes into general taxation, rather than being hypothecated for infrastructure.  Because of taxation, we are able to pay for a universal health care system and cheap university fees (USD 15,000 per annum for Oxford).  For families, paying higher prices for petrol probably works out cheaper than paying US-level health insurance premiums (plus tax for some uninsured) or US-level university fees.

 

I'm not arguing that the US should have high prices for petrol - I don't care either way.  I'm just laying out the choices that countries make.

 

L

 

 

I fear that with our current government system if we paid the high tax for gas we would still pay the US-level health insurance premium and still have outrageous university fees.  

[Χά�ων]

Sure, once in a while.  My kids at 1.5 were walking a couple of miles, up and down hills, when I had the time to walk them to the park.  They started walking at 15mos.  They were also just potty trained at 1.5 (diaper free), so time was of the essence, but we did it.  For what that's worth.  However, my youngest hated and hates being forced to do much physical exertion (even though I've never allowed her to be a couch potato).  She has some physical issues that make it harder for her.

 

It would take an incredibly long time for my kids to walk 10 miles (there and back), and it's not happening in any kind of "weather."  They also wouldn't have much energy left for the work at the farm, let alone anything else we might want to do.  As for me, I'm 47 years old with arthritis and scoliosis.  Besides, I work 7 days per week and my boss would not let me play around like that all day.  No way no how.  And again, the little bit of freeway driving to get there and back are not causing an oil crisis.

 

If you want to get picky, my sister has biked 200 miles at a shot when she was younger.  Maybe you and your son should do that instead of driving to his appointments, in all kinds of weather.  I mean, how irresponsible to drive when it is *possible* to do otherwise.  That's about how you sound picking on my five mile freeway drive.

 

It's this extreme kind of talk that makes people unwilling to have this discussion in a productive way.

 

I recall a guy in NYC who was in the news because he and his family were living on as little resources as possible.  Among other things, they crapped in a pot and took the crap to the roof of their apartment house to use it for planting.  That way they didn't have to flush the toilet.  All I could think was, what if everyone in NYC did that?  Wouldn't that be super.  Blech.  There's leadership, and then there is extremism.

It is a felony in my state to bike or cross a highway and DS's medical condition affects his hips in such a way that he cannot ride a bike. He doesn't bend like that. Or I would be all over it. I would jump at the chance to take a train into the city and walk the mile from the train station to the doctor. So in my case, it is not possible. Not wanting to move is not the same as being unable to move.

 

I am not that old, but have a heart condition and scoliosis as well as raising a child with extensive medical needs. I still manage. Check out Ruth Stout. She has a no work garden method that really works! Seriously, I have gone through several "methods" that claimed to no work or that they maximize space. They don't work. Plus if you can find her videos online she is a hoot! Even if you don't garden she is worth watching. Her method is very similar to the Back to Eden garden method, another excellent film.

 

I make it work by prioritizing. I get up earlier, I manage my online activities and, when I was working, my work, in such a way that I had time. For me, it meant I kept business hours. I notified all my clients when I first started working with them of the hours I kept. I set my work email to have an auto response stating I was out of the office until some such time, usually 8am the next day. I changed my voicemail message daily to have the same information. When I was on the clock, I only did 'work'. I stayed off of facebook, personal e-mail and I muted my personal phone. That is what I did to make time.

 

Going to a farm place, even weekly, is no where near the same as growing a massive garden to feed your family. Bottle feeding a calf is not the same as raising it day in and day out. Same with chickens, and other animals. There are people on this forum who have large gardens than I have, raise hundreds of heads of cattle and even I am not going to pretend to know what there work load is. I have a 1/2 acre garden, an orchard and berry patch. Right now it is just enough for my small family with a little extra to sell. I admire those who do more and I am making conscious choices to get to the place where I have a 3-5 acre orchard, 2 acres berry patch, 2 acre garden and have a dozen hogs, 200 chickens and turkeys (part meat, part egg) and a couple of milk cows.

 

 I am not berating you, I am trying to show you how your defenses and claims that you are not part of the problem IS the problem. I listed above everything I am doing to make an impact. Is it enough? Probably not. Is it everything I can do in my current place in life?

 

 

 

As I joke with my IRL friends, "I am working towards being ready for the zombie apocalypse." Funny but true. When I no longer need to leave my property for food and entertainment I am where I need to be. I exclude keeping my son alive and healthy from this. If he was healthy my carbon footprint would be a heck of a lot lower because I would not need to leave as often.

[Χά�ων]

You haven't met my kids.  LOL

 

????

 

Seriously?

[SKL]

It is a felony in my state to bike or cross a highway and DS's medical condition affects his hips in such a way that he cannot ride a bike. He doesn't bend like that. Or I would be all over it. I would jump at the chance to take a train into the city and walk the mile from the train station to the doctor. So in my case, it is not possible. Not wanting to move is not the same as being unable to move.

 

I am not that old, but have a heart condition and scoliosis as well as raising a child with extensive medical needs. I still manage. Check out Ruth Stout. She has a no work garden method that really works! Seriously, I have gone through several "methods" that claimed to no work or that they maximize space. They don't work. Plus if you can find her videos online she is a hoot! Even if you don't garden she is worth watching. Her method is very similar to the Back to Eden garden method, another excellent film.

 

I make it work by prioritizing. I get up earlier, I manage my online activities and, when I was working, my work, in such a way that I had time. For me, it meant I kept business hours. I notified all my clients when I first started working with them of the hours I kept. I set my work email to have an auto response stating I was out of the office until some such time, usually 8am the next day. I changed my voicemail message daily to have the same information. When I was on the clock, I only did 'work'. I stayed off of facebook, personal e-mail and I muted my personal phone. That is what I did to make time.

 

Going to a farm place, even weekly, is no where near the same as growing a massive garden to feed your family. Bottle feeding a calf is not the same as raising it day in and day out. Same with chickens, and other animals. There are people on this forum who have large gardens than I have, raise hundreds of heads of cattle and even I am not going to pretend to know what there work load is. I have a 1/2 acre garden, an orchard and berry patch. Right now it is just enough for my small family with a little extra to sell. I admire those who do more and I am making conscious choices to get to the place where I have a 3-5 acre orchard, 2 acres berry patch, 2 acre garden and have a dozen hogs, 200 chickens and turkeys (part meat, part egg) and a couple of milk cows.

 

 I am not berating you, I am trying to show you how your defenses and claims that you are not part of the problem IS the problem. I listed above everything I am doing to make an impact. Is it enough? Probably not. Is it everything I can do in my current place in life?

 

 

 

As I joke with my IRL friends, "I am working towards being ready for the zombie apocalypse." Funny but true. When I no longer need to leave my property for food and entertainment I am where I need to be. I exclude keeping my son alive and healthy from this. If he was healthy my carbon footprint would be a heck of a lot lower because I would not need to leave as often.

 

Well if you really want to get down to it, why not talk about eating too much food, or having too many sets of clothes?  I mean, why don't we all dig a hole and live in it?  Who needs a house?  What an unnecessary use of resources.  We should all go live on tree branches in the jungle, so we wouldn't be guilty of the sin of heating or cooling our homes.

 

If I remember correctly, you have mentioned that you drive your son to his ice skating practice every morning.  Or is that another mom here?  If it's you, surely you could think of something else he could do besides pursue a sport that involves the use of resources.

 

I don't believe that a bit of driving is going to doom the earth.  Obviously not everyone agrees with me but I really don't care.  According to predictions, the earth's population was supposed to be something like 20+ billion by now and we were supposed to be starving to death - not fussing over which of 1000 diets we should use to fight obesity.  But far be it from me to inject a little rationality into the conversation.  I'll just go slit my wrists now since I have done so much horrific damage by driving my kids to horse camp.

[SKL]

I'd go for the hole thing, but this time of year the ground is frozen so digging a hole would be pretty challenging.  LOL

 

Excuses!  Put your lazy kids to work.

 

[SKL]

Well then of course they also have to locate the ground.  That's a challenge as well.  LOL

 

It's obvious that you are a big part of the problem.  How can you joke about it?

 

(You know I'm just kidding, right?)

[Χά�ων]

Well if you really want to get down to it, why not talk about eating too much food, or having too many sets of clothes? I mean, why don't we all dig a hole and live in it? Who needs a house? What an unnecessary use of resources. We should all go live on tree branches in the jungle, so we wouldn't be guilty of the sin of heating or cooling our homes.

 

If I remember correctly, you have mentioned that you drive your son to his ice skating practice every morning. Or is that another mom here? If it's you, surely you could think of something else he could do besides pursue a sport that involves the use of resources.

 

I don't believe that a bit of driving is going to doom the earth. Obviously not everyone agrees with me but I really don't care. According to predictions, the earth's population was supposed to be something like 20+ billion by now and we were supposed to be starving to death - not fussing over which of 1000 diets we should use to fight obesity. But far be it from me to inject a little rationality into the conversation. I'll just go slit my wrists now since I have done so much horrific damage by driving my kids to horse camp.

Not daily because the ice time changed. Daily was a long time ago. he does obscene amounts of dryland training and conditioning. i combine it with ot and pt trips. he rides with another family part way if there is extra ice. Actually most of the families

 

Dry land tlis at the nearest gym, again across a highway. He trains there up to 3 hours at a go. He has his own home program but he pushes to hard and has injured himself with it. his coach and doctor felt it was better for him to be supervised until he reached an point where he could do the exercises safely without risk of injury.

 

 

on phone typos abound

[Χά�ων]

Lol, I don't mean to be extreme, but I actually have lived - by choice - with only three outfits per season. I figured if Ma did it, so could I!

 

Two outfits gives you a clean set Mon-Sat and then a 'good' frock for Sunday and outings.

 

This summer I'm splashing out and will have five outfits :)

 

Awesome! I will admit that I have more clothes than that. But, only because t-shirts that advertise are free and everywhere. I cannot recall that last shirt I bought. I only have 3 pairs of pants.

[Χά�ων]

Sorry, I'm just a little burnt out from the attitudes that I could do it if I just tried harder. 

 

 

Not everyone is into foraging for wild grown food at local parks. I can respect that. Though I will say that it can be counted as school ;)

 

[SKL]

I could probably feed my family for years on the deer who hang out in our yard.  But I'm pretty sure my girls would take offense.

[Χά�ων]

I could probably feed my family for years on the deer who hang out in our yard.  But I'm pretty sure my girls would take offense.

 

Not if the alternative meant starving.

 

Added note: the liver has essential vitamins that your need during the winter when fresh fruits are not readily available.

[SKL]

I seem to remember asking you, Sadie, a while back, what makes you so much more knowledgeable about the future of energy than everyone else?  I mean, I know it's popular to bang the doom drum, especially if you can use it to put down other people.  But if you're going to put on such superior airs, I want to see your scientific qualifications.

[Mrs Mungo]

This thread is an excellent example of why the US has such a hard time getting people to make forward-thinking decisions.

[TeacherZee]

Of course, that is why your mileage will vary.  Also, I know people like Faith who live in northern climes are still eating local since she freezes, cans and dehydrates much of her garden produce.  But you don't have to do that, OK? These are possibilities for some who might be interested.

 

I think Sparkly and I live in a similar climate (although snow seems hard to find this year) and that is why I said I am fine eating tomatoes from Spain this time of year but not in August when I can get them locally :)

 

Oh and I would rather starve than eat liver :D

[SKL]

This thread is an excellent example of why the US has such a hard time getting people to make forward-thinking decisions.

 

Actually I think it says more about our ability to discuss things than our ability to take individual action, which is an entirely different thing.

 

[Alte Veste Academy]

Maybe you could tame the deer and the girls could have them pull a darling little sled. What a picturesque way to get to school in winter!

 

:lol:

 

Nobody needs a science degree to understand fossil fuels are a finite resource.

 

Aw, c'mon. New fossils are being formed every day. I think. (I am not a scientist, but I do watch a lot of Bill Nye...)

[Caroline]

SKL, on an earlier thread you said that biking was much safer than driving where you live. In fact, you said that you were going to insist that your daughters' dates pick them up on bikes carrying guns. So I cannot imagine why you are arguing for driving all over the place in this thread.

[awisha.]

nm 

 

Edited December 17, 2013 by Moderator
Name calling

[Mrs Mungo]

There is a reason that the ignore list is a marvelous function.

 

On a similar note, did you know that reddit banned climate change deniers from their science forum?

http://grist.org/climate-energy/reddits-science-forum-banned-climate-deniers-why-dont-all-newspapers-do-the-same/

[Χά�ων]

I think Sparkly and I live in a similar climate (although snow seems hard to find this year) and that is why I said I am fine eating tomatoes from Spain this time of year but not in August when I can get them locally :)

 

Oh and I would rather starve than eat liver :D

would you could you in a box? would you could you with a fox?

[stripe]

Is this gas as in olive oil?

[unsinkable]

Wait....guns on bikes? That's a direction I had not considered before, but just wacky enough to be intriguing. Is this a thing, and are there photos?

SKL was being tongue-in-cheek in a thread about a father cleaning a gun on the porch when a boyfriend arrives to pickup up a girl for a date.

 

There was also a thread about someone who called non-emergency 911 when she saw a neighbor boy riding a bike with a shotgun. I don't think SKL posted in that one.

[Mrs Mungo]

http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/09/study-warns-of-perilous-oil-crisis/?_r=0

 

http://www.ihs.com/products/cera/energy-report.aspx?ID=106592470

 

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2013/jun/21/shale-gas-peak-oil-economic-crisis

 

http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/steo/report/global_oil.cfm

 

Keep in mind that shale oil is produced via fracking, a process that is questionable at best. Scientists believe it is *the* reason for earthquakes in Oklahoma and elsewhere in the midwest over the last few years. Therefore, it is not without its own cost to local economies.

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

Not in a box, not with a fox!!!

 

Non-offal eater here too. Well. Vegetarian. Lol.

 

Green ham is vegetarian.

 

Or very old.

 

Either way.

[Χά�ων]

http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/09/study-warns-of-perilous-oil-crisis/?_r=0

 

http://www.ihs.com/products/cera/energy-report.aspx?ID=106592470

 

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2013/jun/21/shale-gas-peak-oil-economic-crisis

 

http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/steo/report/global_oil.cfm

 

Keep in mind that shale oil is produced via fracking, a process that is questionable at best. Scientists believe it is *the* reason for earthquakes in Oklahoma and elsewhere in the midwest over the last few years. Therefore, it is not without its own cost to local economies.

thanks for these links

[edelweiss]

I won't be doing them. I drive cars and I use the dryer and I run the air conditioning.

 

And I don't think that makes me a terrible person.

 

When we are staying in the city, it's great to be able to walk to many conveniences, but when we are at one of our homes in the suburbs, we would have to walk miles to get to a store (and even if we wanted to use public transportation, none is available.) I'm sorry, but I'm not going to make excuses and act like I'm ashamed because I drive my car a few miles to go to the store.

 

There seems to be a lot of judging going on in this thread, as well as more than a little bit of competition over who is more self-sacrificing for the benefit of the common good.

 

That said, I can see that you are very sincere in your feelings about this topic and that you definitely practice what you preach, and I truly admire you for that.

 

I agree.  I drive my car pretty much everywhere, dry my clothing in a dryer, and heat and cool my rather large home to temperatures that are comfortable for us.  I understand that some people may not like that, but it is certainly not something that I feel guilty about.  

 

I do appreciate that some people are very passionate about this subject though.  I honestly don't know anyone in real life who is even one-tenth as zealous as several of the people here, so I find this discussion to be very interesting.  

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

That first link about the German military echos what other fuel-intensive industries are starting to do, like buying hybrid heavy trucks.  It's about business and profit margin far more than about feeling crunchy, and that's not a bad thing at all.  It will be an economic model, perhaps buoyed by government policies but not originating from them, that will ultimately address energy usage at scale.

[Mrs Mungo]

I agree.  I drive my car pretty much everywhere, dry my clothing in a dryer, and heat and cool my rather large home to temperatures that are comfortable for us.  I understand that some people may not like that, but it is certainly not something that I feel guilty about.

I do all of those things too (except my house is usually pretty warm during the day; I don't have heat). That's really beside the point of my whole thought process. My thought process is that if we look for ways of saving/raising money to fund more efficient ways of living, then people will use them as long as they are easier/cheaper than what they are doing now.

[ThatHomeschoolDad]

 

OK, now that was fun, of a fashion,  but back to gas and such...

 

There is an interesting subculture out there called "hypermilers," complete with forums and conferences and whatnot.  Essentially, people modify the heck out of regular cars to eek out a few more mpg.  Some things are easy, like empty the trunk junk, but others take it waaaay beyond:

 

 

 

 

Duct tape.  The answer is always duct tape.

[LucyStoner]

Indulge a little analogy.

In the mornings when I am doing my third set of push-ups, when I get to about the last five counts any number of things can happen. After all, I've already done 2 full sets and sprints with no break. I might power through those last 5 and tack on 3-5 more and get up and run my little sprint super fast. Or I make it through the 5 by the skin of my teeth and get up and grab my water bottle like it is a lifeline and run like a little old lady. Or I get to the 2nd to last and stop and walk. Or I only do one of the last 5. Or I drop to my knees and do 1/2s. Or I don't eek out even one of those last 5 counts and I get up and walk rather than sprint. Some very rare days I wake up and decide not to go at all. Or I don't even wake up and I miss the session. Later that day, I will likely do something along those lines on my own. But sometimes not. All of these possible actions are perfectly fine.

Feeling good when I add a little extra and get up and run fast doesn't mean I feel badly when I simply don't have it nor does it make me better than someone who does less pushups or no pushups. The fact that I don't berate myself for wherever it is I am that day also doesn't mean I don't get a little yay when I go a little longer, run a little faster and do more rather than less.

I do what I can, when I can and I don't worry about what the people around me are or are not doing. Some of them can do way more. Some way less. That is all ok. I don't think that people need to feel that because they are doing something differently they are better or worse. But that doesn't mean that when you make a good choice you can't feel glad, for yourself and for the investment of time, money, whatever you are making. What I can, when I can is how I shape my life and it works well for being a conscious consumer of resources. Sharing how you do what you do or encouraging people to think of alternatives or challenge their assumptions isn't condemning people as people. It's merely sharing info and ideas.

[Catwoman]

Wait....guns on bikes?  That's a direction I had not considered before, but just wacky enough to be intriguing.  Is this a thing, and are there photos?

  

Imagine the dilemma if I saw someone one a bike, with a gun.

Because one hand, bike. Good people ride bikes.

And on the other, guns.

Wow, I'd sure need a degree to figure out that one!

Pictures please.

I'm too lazy to search for them, but there have indeed been threads about gun-toting kids on bikes.

 

No, really, I'm not kidding. :)

 

I remember being quite shocked and posting that if we saw anything like that in our neighborhood, the police would be called immediately, as that sort of thing is illegal... and I may have mentioned creepy and scary, but I can't remember for sure. ;)

 

But several people said that their own kids carry guns when they go out on their bikes, because there are predators in their area (not people, but wild animals like cougars,) and they need the guns to stay safe.

[Χά�ων]

Well I'd have a completely different thought.  I'd assume poor person attempting to rob a bank.

Really? I would assume it is a teenager on the way to the skeet range.

 

[AlmiraGulch]

Indulge a little analogy.

 

In the mornings when I am doing my third set of push-ups, when I get to about the last five counts any number of things can happen. After all, I've already done 2 full sets and sprints with no break. I might power though those last 5 and tack on 3-5 more and get up and run my little sprint super fast. Or I make it through the 5 by the skin of my teeth and get up and grab my water bottle like it is a lifeline and run like a little old lady. Or I get to the 2nd to last and stop and walk. Or I only do one of the last 5. Or I drop to my knees and do 1/2s. Or I don't eek out even one of those last 5 counts and I get up and walk rather than sprint. Some very rare days I wake up and decide not to go at all. Or I don't even wake up and I miss the session. Later that day, I will likely do something along those lines on my own. But sometimes not. All of these possible actions are perfectly fine.

 

Feeling good when I add a little extra and get up and run fast doesn't mean I feel badly when I simply don't have it nor does it make me better than someone is does less pushups or no pushups. The fact that I don't berate myself for wherever it is I am that day also doesn't mean I don't get a little yay when I go a little longer, run a little faster and do more rather than less.

 

I do what I can, when I can and I don't worry about what the people around me are or are not doing. Some of them can do way more. Some way less. That is all ok. I don't think that people need to feel that because they are doing something differently they are better or worse. But that doesn't mean that when you make a good choice you can't feel glad, for yourself and for the investment of time, money, whatever you are making. What I can, when I can is how I shape my life and it works well for being a conscious consumer of resources. Sharing how you do what you do or encouraging people to think of alternatives or challenge their assumptions isn't condemning people as people. It's merely sharing info and ideas.

 

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

 

Remember when there was all the outcry over Chick Fil A when it came out that the company donated money to Family First and other organizations that actively lobby to limit gay rights?  I chose not to eat there anymore.  

 

A friend of mine went on a rant on Facebook about how all of us who decided to stop eating at CFA should get off our high horses.  That if we weren't going to track down the source of the diamonds in our wedding rings or the parts in our cars or the facilities that manufactured our clothes, where there were equal or even worse human rights violations,  we were hypocrites for calling out CFA.

 

I disagreed.  It is impractical and even nearly impossible for us to do most of those things, but it's really not hard for us to choose a different place to eat.  I said that for me it was no different than if they were donating to the KKK, and it was in my face.  There was no way I could just ignore that.  

 

I feel the same way about this issue.  I do give it thought.  I take action where I can.  I know I could do more, but I can't do everything.  That doesn't mean that what I do is meaningless, or that I should do nothing.  If all of us truly do what we can, and think outside of the immediate, I believe it will be meaningful in the aggregate. 

[Catwoman]

Well I'd have a completely different thought. I'd assume poor person attempting to rob a bank.

And a really stupid bank robber, to boot, if he didn't have the good sense to try to hide the gun in his coat pocket or something.

[Χά�ων]

  

I'm too lazy to search for them, but there have indeed been threads about gun-toting kids on bikes.

 

No, really, I'm not kidding. :)

 

I remember being quite shocked and posting that if we saw anything like that in our neighborhood, the police would be called immediately, as that sort of thing is illegal... and I may have mentioned creepy and scary, but I can't remember for sure. ;)

 

But several people said that their own kids carry guns when they go out on their bikes, because there are predators in their area (not people, but wild animals like cougars,) and they need the guns to stay safe.

 

I am going on a limb to admit that just over a year ago DS was not allowed to walk to his grandmothers house without someone with a gun due to the predator problem. I prefer my son does not become a tasty snack.  

[Χά�ων]

Really.  I'm not joking for even a second.  People don't carry guns out in the open here.  And if they do, they probably get shot at.

 

Huh. Just a wild guess, but does your area lack the following:

 

Trap range

Packs of wild dogs roaming around

Large mammals able to consume small children

[Catwoman]

I am going on a limb to admit that just over a year ago DS was not allowed to walk to his grandmothers house without someone with a gun due to the predator problem. I prefer my son does not become a tasty snack.

Makes sense to me! :)

 

When you live in an area where wild predators aren't exactly roaming the streets and it's illegal to carry a gun around with you, it seems incredibly shocking and frightening to think of kids carrying guns. When you live in a place where you might meet a hungry wild animal on your afternoon stroll, I'm sure the perspective is quite different! :)

[albeto.]

Wait....guns on bikes?  That's a direction I had not considered before, but just wacky enough to be intriguing.  Is this a thing, and are there photos?

 

 

Like a sir:

 

 

[Catwoman]

Really.  I'm not joking for even a second.  People don't carry guns out in the open here.  And if they do, they probably get shot at.

Same here.

 

People would be horrified at the thought of seeing anyone carrying a gun, on a bike or otherwise, unless it was a police officer. They'd be racing to see who could call 911 first, and the police would respond in about 2 minutes to arrest the person.

 

That's just the way things are around here.

[Χά�ων]

America is so scary!

What is scary to me are some of the humans.

[Catwoman]

The only adults I've ever seen with guns are police, and if I saw a child with a gun, I'd call the police.

 

But we do not have child eating mammals.

We don't have them around here, either, so I can't really judge anyone who has to deal with that sort of danger on a regular basis.

 

If I moved to an area where that sort of thing was commonplace, I'll admit that I would find it very disturbing. I'm not sure I would ever get comfortable with it. But that's my own personal issue.

[LucyStoner]

You have exceeded your quota on the number of times one is allowed to use the term hyperbole in one day. You will be fined.

 

:laugh:

I'll pay my fine in push-ups.

[AlmiraGulch]

Yes! To all of this except I'm not as optimistic about the outcome.

 

Well, I'm not particularly optimistic about it either, if I'm being honest.  Mainly because I don't believe that most people do anything at all outside of what is wholly and completely convenient for them.

 

If they did, though, I'd be more optimistic about the outcome.

[Χά�ων]

Same here.

 

People would be horrified at the thought of seeing anyone carrying a gun, on a bike or otherwise, unless it was a police officer. They'd be racing to see who could call 911 first, and the police would respond in about 2 minutes to arrest the person.

 

That's just the way things are around here.

 

Really? I am not sure the sheriff would arrive within an hour

[Χά�ων]

Trap Shooting

 

 

 

Large Mammals

Pretend my internet is faster I have posted pictures of bears and mountain lions.