Knitting Etiquette Question

[Catwoman]

Yeah I don't understand why. :closedeyes:

Haters.

[LucyStoner]

I'm jealous. I would love to have that kind of crocheting skill.

 

I'm too clunky. People would notice because I'd be intermittently yelling out WTF.

I so couldn't do it in the dark while watching something visually appealing. I can do simple stuff while watching TV at home in the dark but I am certainly not going out to a performance or movie that way. The former is too engrossing and the latter, well I need my hands for my popcorn or wholly inappropriate PDA with my husband. ;)

[redsquirrel]

Well, as someone who has to watch what feels like 50 million performances of Nutcracker every year and every performance of whatever musical my kid is in and every other ballet they are in I really, really wish I could knit in the dark. Sometimes I think a knitting needle in the eye would be a small price to pay.

[Catwoman]

Well, as someone who has to watch what feels like 50 million performances of Nutcracker every year and every performance of whatever musical my kid is in and every other ballet they are in I really, really wish I could knit in the dark. Sometimes I think a knitting needle in the eye would be a small price to pay.

Well, when you put it that way.... :D

[Danestress]

] I am suggesting it might a little disrespectful to chose to engage in fidget-soothing behaviors during certain times, like when a highly honored guest is speaking or when someone is in tears making a speech.

And what I am trying to tell you is that (1) knitting has nothing to so with fidgets for many people. I am not a fidgety person and never have been. I just like knitting, but I actually don't do it that much in public anyway, but (2) I disagree that it is disrespectfull in this situation, though I agree it would not be something I would do in church or a concert or a State of the Union address. I am not sure where every line is drawn, but I would not feel disrespected if someone were knitting while I talked at an open public forum if they were not distracting others.

 

And honestly, I probably would stop knitting if someone were crying. But also I know the public crying would make some people very nervous and uncomfortable, so something like knitting might be a coping tactic for them.

 

I do think sometimes feeling disrespected is a choice. You keep saying it is disrespectful. I don't really agree. To me that is like saying, "I feel disrespected that you didn't wear your best clothes to the meeting," or "I feel disrespected that you left without speaking to me afterwards." It seems to me that we sometimes can just choose not to take offense.

[Jane in NC]

At the public meetings I attend, there is usually some movement of people in and out of the room.  Few people in the audience remain for the entire meeting; usually people leave after their subject of interest is discussed.

 

Further, there may be reporters present who are taking notes/writing stories on their laptops during the meeting. It is not as though everyone sits in rapture. Maybe your local politicians are more organized or better speakers than my lot.

 

 

[Elfknitter.#]

Just another perspective for the knitters: it can be incredibly distracting to the people around you to have the constant motion going on at the periphery of their field of vision. It is not just the clacking.

 

Which is why I would 1) ask my professors in graduate school if it was ok with them (some it was, some it was not) and 2) I would always sit in the back of the room so that my crochet movements weren't bothering others. (Not that I had wildly, flailing arms and yarn, just that the actions would sometimes distract others.)  By the end of a semester, there were 5 of us doing handcrafts in one class.

 

I have never seen a person attempt to knit or crochet in a concert hall in the dark and personally would find that a bit distracting.  However, in a situation like the town meeting the OP mentioned, I see no problem.

[marbel]

<snip>

 

And honestly, I probably would stop knitting if someone were crying. But also I know the public crying would make some people very nervous and uncomfortable, so something like knitting might be a coping tactic for them.

 

<snip>

 

I'm not sure what a speaker's crying at a public meeting has to do with anything.  I am not a particularly overemotional person but I cry easily.  If I ever got up at a public meeting to speak, and started crying, I wouldn't consider anyone disrespectful if they knit or probably if they played with their phone.  Not everyone has to be emotional about the same things.    It's still a public meeting, not a solemn occasion. 

[Slartibartfast]

I'm jealous. I would love to have that kind of crocheting skill.

 

I'm too clunky.  People would notice because I'd be intermittently yelling out WTF.

 

:smilielol5:

 

I do that too! Haha!

 

That was kinda of why I said what I did about doing complicated things. I have knit a Doctor Who scarf and several Harry Potter scarves and I can do that sort of thing while not thinking about it. I don't need to watch my hands while doing garter or stockinette. 

 

I can also crochet granny squares while not looking at it or just straight crochet, like a hat or something.

 

That is about the extent of my " not looking at my knitting/crochet" skillz. If I am doing nearly anything else I need to watch what I am doing.

 

I did buy some awesome crochet hooks that light up in the dark but while trying to crochet the horns for the viking hat I am making I needed to turn on the lights and pay attention. I also had to rewatch that episode of my show because I lost track of what was going on. :lol:

 

I have not knit in movies or during concert shows. I will knit/crochet in my living room while watching tv.

[poppy]

Why is it your place to question it?

Why not? I am also mildly put out by people who chat off topic during meetings, and who light up their phones in a dark theater, and I am not seeing an enormous difference here. It's putting your own needs / desires above those around you.

 

On the other hand, since so many people seem ok with this, maybe I'm wrong. It's been known to happen . But I don't apologize for having an opinion.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Why not? I am also mildly put out by people who chat off topic during meetings, and who light up their phones in a dark theater, and I am not seeing an enormous difference here. It's putting your own needs / desires above those around you.

 

On the other hand, since so many people seem ok with this, maybe I'm wrong. It's been known to happen . But I don't apologize for having an opinion.

Most councils or meetings have rules to cut down on or to eliminate chatting off topic because it wastes time and is disruptive to the majority of people (though it may not always be enforced).  Most theaters have rules against using phones and other electronic devices once the movie has started because that too is disruptive to the majority of people.  Knitting during a meeting is not (in my opinion) disruptive to the majority of people but if it is and there was a rule against it, I would expect that to be followed as well.  

[Murphy101]

I'm jealous. I would love to have that kind of crocheting skill.

 

I'm too clunky. People would notice because I'd be intermittently yelling out WTF.

Ha! Me too and I'm slowly getting skilled. Both at crochet and knitting and replacing my expletives. Tho muttering, "flip frik twiddle farfignugen" seems to be noticed too. ;)

 

I think if you wouldn't be messing with your phone, reading a book, playing a DS or whatever, then you shouldn't be knitting/crocheting either. It's all the same message. You're more interested in what's in your hands than what those around you are doing/saying. Which I guess is fine but don't be surprised if they aren't much interested in you either.

 

Fwiw, most (note I didn't say all) most people I've met who claimed they paid better attention and made eye contact didn't seem that way to others and often didn't make the connection to information they didn't have. They'd swear that wasn't mentioned at the meeting or whatever when it was.

 

I am sure no one likes fidgeting but focus is a skill like any other. I don't think it happens naturally for many people.

 

I don't have a moral issue with it, but I do think it can be rude.

[Ottakee]

One difference between these meetings and church, funeral, wedding, etc. is that those generally only have 30-45 minutes of sit down and listen time, many less than that as you are standing, singing, watching a video presentation, etc. whereas your meetings sound like they go on for hours and hours and hours.

[Harriet Vane]

Phones, books, and video games all require attention. Knitting and crocheting really don't. The stitches are very, very repetitive. It is totally different than gaming or engaging in conversations via text or reading. Knitting and crocheting are fairly mindless activities that keep the hands busy while the mind is free to pay attention elsewhere.

 

Martha, I have to admit to being puzzled by your insistence that handiwork decreases attention when several of us have stated otherwise. You have no reason to distrust my experience, yet you have basically said it is inaccurate or that I (those of us who crochet during meetings) am deluding myself/ourselves??

 

I can assure you, my husband would tell you the opposite. I can also say that many of us on this board have spoken of the value of allowing children to color or do handiwork while listening to history or other subjects read aloud. My son does latch hook while he listens to read-aloud literature. I know it helps me, and in fact, I credit my crocheting with keeping me in church. There came a point, for me, where my exhaustion and inattention dovetailed with some unhappy issues at church. It was very, very hard to stay there, fighting my fatigue, feeling resentful about the dysfunctional church issues, and trying to not bite my nails. I started sneaking my crochet up into the old (unused) choir loft to do just during the sermon. It helped enormously. It turned the whole experience around. That is what gave me courage to just take the crochet along and quietly work at it.

 

(I was later diagnosed with anemia. This has been a chronic, ongoing issue for me for years.)

 

You may feel that the activity is disrespectful, but many of us have testified that no disrespect is intended, and that the activity specifically helps pay attention.

[LucyStoner]

Have any of you ever been to a political caucus or a convention? Just because someone is at the mic doesn't mean all attention is on them or even should be. People are making vote deals, campaigning, heckling, taking notes. It lasts all.day.long. Trust me, knitting is the least disruptive thing that could be going on.

 

ETA- thinking about the length of conventions makes me wish I were Madame LaFarge and could chop off the heads of people who drone on too long. Also at a political meeting if you missed something and want to know what happened? Ask the person knitting. IME, they will know.

[LucyStoner]

Given that I maintained a near perfect GPA in college I think it is safe to say I was paying attention during my lectures. For classes I did handiwork in, I would outline them into notes from memory after class based on the few words I jotted down. My notes, especially in economics, were highly sought after by other students. No one can tell how much anyone else is or is not paying attention based on their doodling or handiwork.

[redsquirrel]

Ha! Me too and I'm slowly getting skilled. Both at crochet and knitting and replacing my expletives. Tho muttering, "flip frik twiddle farfignugen" seems to be noticed too. ;)

 

I think if you wouldn't be messing with your phone, reading a book, playing a DS or whatever, then you shouldn't be knitting/crocheting either. It's all the same message. You're more interested in what's in your hands than what those around you are doing/saying. Which I guess is fine but don't be surprised if they aren't much interested in you either.

 

Fwiw, most (note I didn't say all) most people I've met who claimed they paid better attention and made eye contact didn't seem that way to others and often didn't make the connection to information they didn't have. They'd swear that wasn't mentioned at the meeting or whatever when it was.

 

I am sure no one likes fidgeting but focus is a skill like any other. I don't think it happens naturally for many people.

 

I don't have a moral issue with it, but I do think it can be rude.

 

I believe it is a mischaracterization to say that I am more interested in my knitting than I am in the people around me. You don't know that about me or anyone else. You are making a judgement based on your own assumptions. Or maybe you know some curmudgeonly knitters? 

 

And you might also find out that you are incorrect that people won't be interested in us because we are knitting. I find that my knitting is frequently an opening to discussions with people I don't know in a group setting. It isn't uncommon for someone to see me knitting as a meeting is clearing out etc and come over and start up a conversation about what I am making or how I learned to knit, or memories of a beloved relative who knitted etc. So I can't look all that unapproachable or uninterested.

[LucyStoner]

It's putting your own needs / desires above those around you.

 

 

I was unaware that anyone had a need for me to not make granny squares. Seriously, anyone who is bothered by it seems to be putting their opinions above those around them. People have been doing handiwork in meetings for a very long time. Once upon a time you couldn't readily buy the stuff that people knit but need like socks and sweaters and gloves. A householder who wanted to get it all done had to keep going. Obviously times have changed but I think it is kinda funny when very simple traditions become "rude". Because people do it for fun and not need now, I don't see why that makes it rude in a meeting type setting.

[poppy]

I was unaware that anyone had a need for me to not make granny squares. Seriously, anyone who is bothered by it seems to be putting their opinions above those around them. People have been doing handiwork in meetings for a very long time. Once upon a time you couldn't readily buy the stuff that people knit but need like socks and sweaters and gloves. A householder who wanted to get it all done had to keep going. Obviously times have changed but I think it is kinda funny when very simple traditions become "rude". Because people do it for fun and not need now, I don't see why that makes it rude in a meeting type setting.

 

Baffled by this. Knitters knit because they enjoy it, and at least one person here said she really don't care if it bothers others.  How is that not putting her opinions above others? What's the difference?

 

When I said putting your needs above the needs of others, I meant the need that just about everyone else in the room is fulfilling.... giving, or pretending to give, the speaker and the venue and the meeting and the occasion your attention.  It's not about  your need to make granny squares, your need to keep your hands busy to increase attention or any other of your needs. (Again, generic "you", not any one poster!)  

[Murphy101]

I believe it is a mischaracterization to say that I am more interested in my knitting than I am in the people around me. You don't know that about me or anyone else. You are making a judgement based on your own assumptions. Or maybe you know some curmudgeonly knitters?

 

And you might also find out that you are incorrect that people won't be interested in us because we are knitting. I find that my knitting is frequently an opening to discussions with people I don't know in a group setting. It isn't uncommon for someone to see me knitting as a meeting is clearing out etc and come over and start up a conversation about what I am making or how I learned to knit, or memories of a beloved relative who knitted etc. So I can't look all that unapproachable or uninterested.

Whatever. I didn't say you weren't approachable after the event (people do all kinds of things after an event they don't do during an event) and I didn't make any characterization about you. Purposely choosing to do something else while someone else is giving a discussion, performance, or whatever gives the impression you aren't interested in what they are doing. It's not one bit different than someone reading a book, playing a DS on mute, messing with their phone or anything else. They are all quietly doing their own thing and those things aren't any worse or better than knitting/crocheting.

[Danestress]

Purposely choosing to do something else while someone else is giving a discussion, performance, or whatever gives the impression you aren't interested in what they are doing. It's not one bit different than someone reading a book, playing a DS on mute, messing with their phone or anything else. They are all quietly doing their own thing and those things aren't any worse or better than knitting/crocheting.

Right. And in parts of a town hall meeting that goes on for hours or days, I am, in fact, NOT interested. I am, in fact, happy to do my own thing if it is quiet and unobtrusive.

 

A funeral? No. An opera? No. Endless speeches by earnest citizens? I might zone out during those. Or I might listen but knit. I am thinking don't owe it to anyone there to display rapt attention through all the discussions. I can see going because I care about some issues, but knitting through discussions on salaries, for example.

 

I've actually never attended a town meeting. But based on the way OP described it in her first post, I can't imagine just sitting through DAYS of discussion so that I could vote one or two issues.

[LucyStoner]

Baffled by this. Knitters knit because they enjoy it, and at least one person here said she really don't care if it bothers others. How is that not putting her opinions above others? What's the difference?

 

When I said putting your needs above the needs of others, I meant the need that just about everyone else in the room is fulfilling.... giving, or pretending to give, the speaker and the venue and the meeting and the occasion your attention. It's not about your need to make granny squares, your need to keep your hands busy to increase attention or any other of your needs. (Again, generic "you", not any one poster!)

Your rights extend as far as they intrude on others. In a performance setting, I agree that knitting is not generally appropriate. In a town hall meeting? I just don't see how it impacts others at all. The person at the mic does not have the right to my undivided attention, especially when they could very well be saying something of zero consequence. I reject the idea that as an attendee of a meeting I owe whoever is speaking the appearance of my 100% attention, especially when I very well could be paying more attention than a busybody looking around to see what others doing during the meeting. If it is ok to take notes, which it certainly is in a town hall meeting, then it is ok to quietly poke a hook in and out of a square of yarn. Given that I was frequently elected as a delegate or board member, I don't see that others were generally holding my note taking or whatnot against me. ETA- as a citizen and committee member willing to show up for such tedium, it actually is at least partially about my needs. If the party wants me involved they aren't going to care about quiet handwork. And the city council? Those folks work for me. If they want me to look directly at them the whole time they talk, well they can earn it by being thrilling. The most thrilling things I have ever seen at a city council meeting? Imma drawing a blank. :p

[redsquirrel]

Baffled by this. Knitters knit because they enjoy it, and at least one person here said she really don't care if it bothers others.  How is that not putting her opinions above others? What's the difference?

 

When I said putting your needs above the needs of others, I meant the need that just about everyone else in the room is fulfilling.... giving, or pretending to give, the speaker and the venue and the meeting and the occasion your attention.  It's not about  your need to make granny squares, your need to keep your hands busy to increase attention or any other of your needs. (Again, generic "you", not any one poster!)  

 

Well, I am the person who says that I don't care if it bothers other people. What I specifically don't care about is if someone sees me knitting and decides to pearl clutch at my unseemly behaviour or makes a judgement about my attention to the subject at hand. That is what I don't give a crap about. I can't control what every single person in a group setting is or is not going to think about me and I am not going to live my life that way.

 

And, BTW, I think your lack of compassion towards my desire to knit is putting your needs above mine. So, do we thunderdome it? Or can we just ascribe to each other the best of intentions and cut lots of slack?

 

Sometimes we get together in groups. And sometimes that means getting out of our bubbles and seeing people who function in the world differently than we do. And that can be difficult. But we survive the experience.

 

[LucyStoner]

Poppy, I am geniunely curious about your thoughts on my son doing handiwork to be less distruptive in a writing class? He has autism. By crocheting even a simple chain or square, he can sit still and not flap around in class. When I say flap, that's not a figure of speech. I mean literally flap his hands and sometimes whole arms. It's obviously not an issue for the teacher as she suggested it and has had other students who do the same.

 

I can totally see him doing this in college or adult settings as a way to adapt to his surroundings.

 

Should he not go to classes or college? Should I medicate him to the point that his cognitive and other functions are impaired or with medications that carry harsh side effects? Should I just keep him out of the class? Is crocheting so awful for others that it overrides the benefit to him to be in class (and the benefit of him being there to others as he is talented and contributes to the class discussion)?

 

If your answer is that he just needs to learn to stay still, that is not happening right now and may not ever happen for him. He is quite affected by his autism.

[momma2three]

I'm just surprised that it's so noticeable.  I usually have to actively look around to see who is doing what, which I do indeed do when I am bored. 

 

For those not from 'round these here parts, towns that run by Town Meeting don't have a powerful executive branch, and the legislative branch is made up of the people.  (My town how a pure Town Meeting, where all citizens can go and vote.  Some larger towns go to a representative Town Meeting, where a few hundred people are voted as Town Meeting members).  We do have selectmen, and they have some power, but it's not very much.  Everything else, and I mean EVERYTHING else goes before Town Meeting once a year.  There are usually about 60-ish items.  The second one is always about the budget, and that takes a while to go through, because there's always somebody who thinks the fire department should be disbanded, or the police officers should earn more, and some people just have questions about what something means or why X comes out of Y's budget instead of Z's or instead of being its own line item.  Some of the items voted on are new bylaws, or editing existing bylaws.  We vote to approve and name new streets in new developments.  The town gives out various grants to various non-profits, and to other worthy causes.  

 

Every single one of these gets a warrant item, and any registered voter in the town can stand up and talk about them.  (Sometimes guests who aren't registered voters ask to talk too, and the Town votes on that, but I've never seen the person be rejected.  It's usually someone who works in the town but lives in another town and thus isn't registered here, and a few times people who do live in the town but aren't US citizens and thus not registered to vote).  There is a Town Moderator, who makes sure that people stay on topic, but on topic can be a kind of broad concept.  And people have 10 minutes to talk, and then someone official can answer, and then the first person can have 3 minutes to talk again.  (Time limits are strictly enforced, and most people don't talk nearly that long… but that's a long time.  Especially when 5 people want to talk about an issue).

 

Now, the vast majority of items just pass without any sort of comment.  The Moderator reads the issue, and then reads whether the town's advisory committee thinks we should vote yes or no, and why (and all of this is printed up in a book and mailed to every household a few weeks before… the Moderator really just reads the book), and says "Is there any discussion?" and then calls the vote and the ayes say aye and the nays say nay, and most things are fairly unanimous.  But every year there are 1) a few hot button issues that sometimes take up to 2 nights to discuss, and 2) at least one jerk who is deciding to punk the town with his crazy.  Ugh, the year that guy cried "hold" on EVERY.SINGLE.BUDGET.LINE.ITEM to argue about how the town shouldn't be spending any money on anything.  There is also one committee, which shall go unnamed, which really, really, deeply, deeply cares about the items relating to themselves, and prepares really long presentations with overhead projector sheets (no joke, that's what our Town Meeting uses still), and then we all get to sit through 4 or 5 presentations about the history, current status, future benefits, cost, cost benefit, beauty, access, and so on about various wetland properties around town, before the unanimous vote.  I think it's nice that they care, and want us all to care just as much.  I like wetlands.  I've read their blurb in the mailed out booklet.  I listen to the presentation, and look at the pretty overheads.  It's not brain surgery prep.  I can knit while all this is going on.

 

IME, people are very respectful during Town Meeting.  Most people in town don't go, and the people who do take it really seriously.  I love Town Meeting.  My friends totally make fun of me because I get giddy with glee during Town Meeting time, and am always there on time, and stay until the end every night.  You have to go year after year before it all sinks in, that half of what people are actually voting about is the person who annoyed them at Town Meeting 10 years ago.  LOL.  People gossip and talk in between sets, or when there's not much going on, but overall people are very quiet and respectful.  I think that if people thought that it was disrespectful to knit while listening, they would not do it.  It is, overall, a very polite crowd.  Even the cranks.

[Harriet Vane]

Well, I am the person who says that I don't care if it bothers other people. What I specifically don't care about is if someone sees me knitting and decides to pearl clutch at my unseemly behaviour or makes a judgement about my attention to the subject at hand. That is what I don't give a crap about. I can't control what every single person in a group setting is or is not going to think about me and I am not going to live my life that way.

 

And, BTW, I think your lack of compassion towards my desire to knit is putting your needs above mine. So, do we thunderdome it? Or can we just ascribe to each other the best of intentions and cut lots of slack?

 

Sometimes we get together in groups. And sometimes that means getting out of our bubbles and seeing people who function in the world differently than we do. And that can be difficult. But we survive the experience.

 

 

:iagree:   Well said.

[Elfknitter.#]

I'm guessing this would just be plain out: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/02/sports/a-running-record-falls-longest-scarf-knitted-in-a-marathon.html?_r=0

[8circles]

I keep reading this thread title as "Knittiquette".

[Jean in Newcastle]

I keep reading this thread title as "Knittiquette".

As you should!

[LucyStoner]

The mental acuity of someone who can run and knit and not stop for 26.2 miles and not die? That is a force to be reckoned with.

[kitten18]

I'm just surprised that it's so noticeable. I usually have to actively look around to see who is doing what, which I do indeed do when I am bored.

 

For those not from 'round these here parts, towns that run by Town Meeting don't have a powerful executive branch, and the legislative branch is made up of the people. (My town how a pure Town Meeting, where all citizens can go and vote. Some larger towns go to a representative Town Meeting, where a few hundred people are voted as Town Meeting members). We do have selectmen, and they have some power, but it's not very much. Everything else, and I mean EVERYTHING else goes before Town Meeting once a year. There are usually about 60-ish items. The second one is always about the budget, and that takes a while to go through, because there's always somebody who thinks the fire department should be disbanded, or the police officers should earn more, and some people just have questions about what something means or why X comes out of Y's budget instead of Z's or instead of being its own line item. Some of the items voted on are new bylaws, or editing existing bylaws. We vote to approve and name new streets in new developments. The town gives out various grants to various non-profits, and to other worthy causes.

 

Every single one of these gets a warrant item, and any registered voter in the town can stand up and talk about them. (Sometimes guests who aren't registered voters ask to talk too, and the Town votes on that, but I've never seen the person be rejected. It's usually someone who works in the town but lives in another town and thus isn't registered here, and a few times people who do live in the town but aren't US citizens and thus not registered to vote). There is a Town Moderator, who makes sure that people stay on topic, but on topic can be a kind of broad concept. And people have 10 minutes to talk, and then someone official can answer, and then the first person can have 3 minutes to talk again. (Time limits are strictly enforced, and most people don't talk nearly that long… but that's a long time. Especially when 5 people want to talk about an issue).

 

Now, the vast majority of items just pass without any sort of comment. The Moderator reads the issue, and then reads whether the town's advisory committee thinks we should vote yes or no, and why (and all of this is printed up in a book and mailed to every household a few weeks before… the Moderator really just reads the book), and says "Is there any discussion?" and then calls the vote and the ayes say aye and the nays say nay, and most things are fairly unanimous. But every year there are 1) a few hot button issues that sometimes take up to 2 nights to discuss, and 2) at least one jerk who is deciding to punk the town with his crazy. Ugh, the year that guy cried "hold" on EVERY.SINGLE.BUDGET.LINE.ITEM to argue about how the town shouldn't be spending any money on anything. There is also one committee, which shall go unnamed, which really, really, deeply, deeply cares about the items relating to themselves, and prepares really long presentations with overhead projector sheets (no joke, that's what our Town Meeting uses still), and then we all get to sit through 4 or 5 presentations about the history, current status, future benefits, cost, cost benefit, beauty, access, and so on about various wetland properties around town, before the unanimous vote. I think it's nice that they care, and want us all to care just as much. I like wetlands. I've read their blurb in the mailed out booklet. I listen to the presentation, and look at the pretty overheads. It's not brain surgery prep. I can knit while all this is going on.

 

IME, people are very respectful during Town Meeting. Most people in town don't go, and the people who do take it really seriously. I love Town Meeting. My friends totally make fun of me because I get giddy with glee during Town Meeting time, and am always there on time, and stay until the end every night. You have to go year after year before it all sinks in, that half of what people are actually voting about is the person who annoyed them at Town Meeting 10 years ago. LOL. People gossip and talk in between sets, or when there's not much going on, but overall people are very quiet and respectful. I think that if people thought that it was disrespectful to knit while listening, they would not do it. It is, overall, a very polite crowd. Even the cranks.

I just applaud anyone who would go and sit through these meetings.

I would surely poke my eyes/ears out with my knitting needles (I actually don't even knit, I crochet a bit).

 

 

I think it would be completely fine to knit/crochet at a meeting like that.

[TeacherZee]

I'm torn on it. OTOH, my ds and my dh are ADD so I totally understand the need to keep hands busy to calm the fidgets. OTOH, I have a teacher who works for me and she knits during our staff meetings. For some reason, it really bothers me. It seems unprofessional. And at church? We are there to worship God and knitting during the reading of God's Holy word seems irreverent. 

 

I don't know. It bugs me but I feel like maybe it shouldn't? 

 

I guess I would say context matters. Knitting while waiting at a doctor's office? Sure. But knitting while at a funeral? Probably not. In both instances you need to sit relatively still and quietly but one seems fine while the other seems disrespectful.

I'm a teacher. I doodle during our staff meetings. Is that better?

[Elfknitter.#]

I'm a teacher. I doodle during our staff meetings. Is that better?

I'm assuming the answer would be no because you are now being rude and not hanging on every word uttered by your administration.

[poppy]

I just applaud anyone who would go and sit through these meetings.

I would surely poke my eyes/ears out with my knitting needles (I actually don't even knit, I crochet a bit).

 

 

I think it would be completely fine to knit/crochet at a meeting like that.

 

As I said in the OP, every town meeting member in my town is elected. In order to become a town meeting member, you have to collect a few dozen signatures, then your name is on a ballot and people vote (or don't vote) for you.  People compete for the chance to represent their district.  So this is not something people are forced to do by civic obligation. 

 

[poppy]

Poppy, I am geniunely curious about your thoughts on my son doing handiwork to be less distruptive in a writing class? He has autism. By crocheting even a simple chain or square, he can sit still and not flap around in class. When I say flap, that's not a figure of speech. I mean literally flap his hands and sometimes whole arms. It's obviously not an issue for the teacher as she suggested it and has had other students who do the same.

 

I can totally see him doing this in college or adult settings as a way to adapt to his surroundings.

 

Should he not go to classes or college? Should I medicate him to the point that his cognitive and other functions are impaired or with medications that carry harsh side effects? Should I just keep him out of the class? Is crocheting so awful for others that it overrides the benefit to him to be in class (and the benefit of him being there to others as he is talented and contributes to the class discussion)?

 

If your answer is that he just needs to learn to stay still, that is not happening right now and may not ever happen for him. He is quite affected by his autism.

 

One thing I said in  a previous post is that any adult who is not disabled should be able to sit still and listen.  I do apologize for the use of the word "disabled", what I was thinking of was someone who would qualify for an IEP, or otherwise be functionally different from the general population.   I am completely sympathetic to coping methods that help cognitively different or physically challenged people adapt  and participate.  

 

I am not quite as sympathetic to the idea that some adults are just "fidigity", as though the rest of us naturally sit still and act attentive because that's just how we're wired.  I guess some people are that way, but most of us are doing it in an effort to be polite.

[AlmiraGulch]

I liken knitting, assuming you're an accomplished knitter, to doodling.  I'm a doodler.  I once had a boss who told me she used to get aggravated at me because we'd be in the middle of a meeting and she'd see me doodling and so, she thought, not paying attention, and then I'd chime in with something brilliant.

 

Turns out, it's scientifically proven that doodling, or knitting, or things of that nature, actually help you to focus during meetings and presentations because they occupy just enough of your brain to keep it from wandering.  

 

So while to the outside eye it may look as if they're not paying attention, they probably remember more than you do of what's going on. 

[AlmiraGulch]

 

I am not quite as sympathetic to the idea that some adults are just "fidigity", as though the rest of us naturally sit still and act attentive because that's just how we're wired.  I guess some people are that way, but most of us are doing it in an effort to be polite.

 

But it's true, though.  And proven.  See the study I cited in my previous post. 

 

The fact that you don't understand it doesn't make it any less true. 

[poppy]

Well, I am the person who says that I don't care if it bothers other people. What I specifically don't care about is if someone sees me knitting and decides to pearl clutch at my unseemly behaviour or makes a judgement about my attention to the subject at hand. That is what I don't give a crap about. I can't control what every single person in a group setting is or is not going to think about me and I am not going to live my life that way.

 

And, BTW, I think your lack of compassion towards my desire to knit is putting your needs above mine. So, do we thunderdome it? Or can we just ascribe to each other the best of intentions and cut lots of slack?

 

Sometimes we get together in groups. And sometimes that means getting out of our bubbles and seeing people who function in the world differently than we do. And that can be difficult. But we survive the experience.

 

 

OK, so, what if your desire was to cut  pick your nose during meetings? And you took measures to make it not a health risk to others.  Would my lack of compassion for your desire to do that be putting my needs above yours? 

 

I'm not actually comparing knitting to nose picking, just saying, not every desire you might choose to act on would or should elicit "compassion" from others.

[poppy]

But it's true, though.  And proven.  See the study I cited in my previous post. 

 

The fact that you don't understand it doesn't make it any less true. 

 

I never said don't doodle or fidgit. To the contrary, I said I get it.  I just wished people didn't bring a big honking knitting project and flash your needles so it's distracting from across the auditorium.  We have a whole row of knitters.

 

I want to be clear here, I'm half playing devil's advocate, I don't hate knitters or knitting and I honestly don't think this is that big of a deal.  It does mildly annoy me and I enjoy reading others opinions, but that's the extend of it. I enjoy the discussion and I don't want to upset anyone.

[Callie]

For years YEARS the woman who sat behind me in church cleaned out or straightened her handbag every Sunday.  Like clockwork she riffled papers, money and all sorts of things during the last 30 minutes of service..  She'd find some candy down in the bottom and offer it(loud stage whisper) to her son and husband and the three of them would rattle candy wrappers non-stop.

 

And it was one of those Baptist churches where your family had been in the same pew for generations so there was no changing seats.  On occasion we'd sit a few pews forward if another family was not in church to try and avoid her.  It never worked because her family would just move up to "our" pew.

 

How I wish she would have taken up knitting!

[Callie]

For years YEARS the woman who sat behind me in church cleaned out or straightened her handbag every Sunday.  Like clockwork she riffled papers, money and all sorts of things during the last 30 minutes of service..  She'd find some candy down in the bottom and offer it(loud stage whisper) to her son and husband and the three of them would rattle candy wrappers non-stop.

 

And it was one of those Baptist churches where your family had been in the same pew for generations so there was no changing seats.  On occasion we'd sit a few pews forward if another family was not in church to try and avoid her.  It never worked because her family would just move up to "our" pew.

 

How I wish she would have taken up knitting!

And she'd jingle her keys as if to hurry the preacher along.  I"d cringe, sit tall in the pew and try to look really alert in attempt to make sure no one thought it was me.

[AlmiraGulch]

I never said don't doodle or fidgit. To the contrary, I said I get it.  I just wished people didn't bring a big honking knitting project and flash your needles so it's distracting from across the auditorium.  We have a whole row of knitters.

 

I want to be clear here, I'm half playing devil's advocate, I don't hate knitters or knitting and I honestly don't think this is that big of a deal.  It does mildly annoy me and I enjoy reading others opinions, but that's the extend of it. I enjoy the discussion and I don't want to upset anyone.

 

I do understand what you're saying.  Honestly, a lot of stuff bugs me that probably really shouldn't.  I'm  half playing devil's advocate right back at you.

 

I did feel quite vindicated when I read that article, though.  No more Doodler's Guilt for me!

[mumto2]

This thread has been pretty entertainig. I haven't carried my knitting with me as much as I used to. I think I will start again. I went to many meetings with a dear friend (now deceased) who brought her knitting too. I do agree that an adult should be able to sit through a meeting without other "entertainment" but I have to say that I wonder how an adult could be honestly distracted by someone knitting several seats away. Assuming that the knitter is simply quietly knitting. That distracted adult will always find something to be distracted by I suspect. I always bring a tiny project just cast on, one skein of wool, on circular needles. Normally a baby sweater in 4ply. Aim is to fit in a quart size zip lock in my purse. I finish the project at home but do the boring bits while out.

[Danestress]

It just seems odd to me that this becomes about battling 'needs.' Is it 'the need to never be mildly annoyed in public?' I don't 'need' to knit, and in this setting, I don't think anyone really 'needs' everyone around them to be absolutely still.

[marbel]

It just seems odd to me that this becomes about battling 'needs.' Is it 'the need to never be mildly annoyed in public?' I don't 'need' to knit, and in this setting, I don't think anyone really 'needs' everyone around them to be absolutely still.

 

That's the difference between knitting in a meeting and knitting in a concert or other performance. 

 

At a performance - even in a movie - people should be as still and silent as possible.  We stifle our coughs and sneezes as much as possible, unwrap our cough drops ahead of time, stay out of our purses and keep our phones put away.  At least that's what I do and am training my kids to do!  (My son always seems to be the one to rattle the popcorn at the quietest part of the movie.  We're working on that.) 

 

In meetings, there is movement: talking, writing notes, shuffling papers, checking notes perhaps on phone or laptop.  There isn't an expectation of stillness and silence.  Even when there is a speaker people are often taking notes.  At church people take notes on phones or paper, doodle on same, flip through pages of the Bible to check something the preacher has said.  At least that's been my experience.  Can't be that different from most people!  I live a pretty mainstream life... ;)

[Heather in Neverland]

I'm a teacher. I doodle during our staff meetings. Is that better?

No it's not better. Perhaps you don't believe it, but it takes a lot of courage to stand up and conduct meetings. To look out into a crowd of people who are supposed to be listening to you and watch them playing on their cell phones, doodling, knitting, etc., is very discouraging. You are a professional. The least you can do is ACT like you are paying attention even if you are not. It shows respect for the speaker. As a teacher, I'd think you'd understand this.

[Murphy101]

I agree Heather.

 

It's not a battle of needs for me. People do lots of things I think are not very respectful or polite or nice. I tend to just ignore/avoid them and try to get done with whatever I need to get done. Most sane folks aren't going about calling out their every annoyance with others. There's usually not some kind of battle over this kind of thing.

[Harriet Vane]

No it's not better. Perhaps you don't believe it, but it takes a lot of courage to stand up and conduct meetings. To look out into a crowd of people who are supposed to be listening to you and watch them playing on their cell phones, doodling, knitting, etc., is very discouraging. You are a professional. The least you can do is ACT like you are paying attention even if you are not. It shows respect for the speaker. As a teacher, I'd think you'd understand this.

 I am not a school administrator as you are, but I have directed quite a few big programs (Sunday School and other church programming) over the years and taught both seminars for adults as well as millions of kids' classes ranging from simple enrichment to AP History or AP Literature. I worked professionally in publishing for seven years. My most recent official position in the publishing world was Editorial Manager.

 

In one sense, you are absolutely right. It does take a lot to be in charge and to run meetings or teach. Absolutely.

 

I would respond very negatively to someone who was on their cell phone during a meeting. Ditto for anyone showing obvious boredom (yawning, for example).

 

However, I have never perceived either doodling or knitting as you do. I think it's because I have struggled all my life with it, and have always been a doodler, crocheter, candy-wrapper-folder, or nail-biter. I know without a doubt that the nail biting is unattractive, so I resort to other behaviors to try to stem that. Because of my own propensities, I simply do not perceive fidgety behavior as disrespectful.Rather, I look on that behavior with sympathy.

 

I think I also disregard the fidgety behavior. I simply don't see it. If the person is making regular eye contact with me and showing me in some way (alert facial expression, contributions to the discussion) then I know they are paying attention. To me, it does not in any way indicate a person's investment in my presentation. Rather, I respond to other cues to assess a person's attention (facial expression, verbal interaction, eye contact, yawning, etc.).

 

My point is that perhaps non-fidgeters should remove that particular behavior off the list of indicators of inattention or boredom. I won't argue that for some people, it could be an indication of such. However, for most of us it's a way of paying better attention. It may not be YOUR way, but it is still valid.

 

The struggle I have with "acting" like I am paying attention is that the act will often ensure that my mind is a million miles away and I really will miss crucial details of the meeting or the sermon or whatever. I will have shown "respect" to the speaker outwardly but the speaker's content will not be accessible to me.

 

 

[Heather in Neverland]

I am not a school administrator as you are, but I have directed quite a few big programs (Sunday School and other church programming) over the years and taught both seminars for adults as well as millions of kids' classes ranging from simple enrichment to AP History or AP Literature. I worked professionally in publishing for seven years. My most recent official position in the publishing world was Editorial Manager.

 

In one sense, you are absolutely right. It does take a lot to be in charge and to run meetings or teach. Absolutely.

 

I would respond very negatively to someone who was on their cell phone during a meeting. Ditto for anyone showing obvious boredom (yawning, for example).

 

However, I have never perceived either doodling or knitting as you do. I think it's because I have struggled all my life with it, and have always been a doodler, crocheter, candy-wrapper-folder, or nail-biter. I know without a doubt that the nail biting is unattractive, so I resort to other behaviors to try to stem that. Because of my own propensities, I simply do not perceive fidgety behavior as disrespectful.Rather, I look on that behavior with sympathy.

 

I think I also disregard the fidgety behavior. I simply don't see it. If the person is making regular eye contact with me and showing me in some way (alert facial expression, contributions to the discussion) then I know they are paying attention. To me, it does not in any way indicate a person's investment in my presentation. Rather, I respond to other cues to assess a person's attention (facial expression, verbal interaction, eye contact, yawning, etc.).

 

My point is that perhaps non-fidgeters should remove that particular behavior off the list of indicators of inattention or boredom. I won't argue that for some people, it could be an indication of such. However, for most of us it's a way of paying better attention. It may not be YOUR way, but it is still valid.

 

The struggle I have with "acting" like I am paying attention is that the act will often ensure that my mind is a million miles away and I really will miss crucial details of the meeting or the sermon or whatever. I will have shown "respect" to the speaker outwardly but the speaker's content will not be accessible to me.

As I mentioned earlier, my dh and my ds are ADD so I have a very good understanding of what you are talking about. So what they do in meetings/classes/sermons is take notes on what is being said. I would have zero problem with staff members taking notes on what is being said during a meeting. That is respectful and helps you pay attention.

 

Perhaps I am just old-fashioned when it comes to meeting etiquette.

[Murphy101]

That's what I do too. I take notes I don't need to satisfy the fidgets. I've taught my kids to do the same.

 

One of them had a professor this semester who didn't allow note-taking in class bc he wanted all their attention on participating in the discussions. DS did it anyways and since he almost never shuts up and is one of only two students who seem to want to discuss the subject, the professor ignored his note taking most of the time. lol