To those who are affected by the gov't shutdown...

[Spy Car]

I dunno about working in this new government, but I know where I am going to be eating.

The government may shut down, but there's no reason for anyone to starve (other than the poor unfortunates who depend on their salaries :D).

 

We can always make more rice.

 

Bill

[Lucy the Valiant]

The undiagnosed disease program of the NIH is affected by this shutdown - people (some children) have been waiting YEARS for the appointments with these doctors, and this is so unfair for them. :( I don't want to post personal information here, but - it is more than employment that is affected by this horrible irresponsibility. :(

[Spy Car]

The whole thing is nutso.

 

Bill

[Arcadia]

I agree. I also approve of all of the yelling and such in parliment.

I do enjoy watching Taiwan's parliamentary debates. The british ones were too polite. I had not watch Australia's parliamentary sessions before. No intention to insult any country.

 

ETA:

What I dont understand is that this is the 2nd time govt. has a shutdown. The 1st being during Bill Clinton's presidency. Why is there no SOP in place to deal with a govt. shutdown?

[Spy Car]

I do enjoy watching Taiwan's parliamentary debates. The british ones were too polite. I had not watch Australia's parliamentary sessions before. No intention to insult any country.

Was it Taiwans where they started throwing chairs and hitting each other?

 

Bill (who might tune into C-Span to see some of that action)

[Arcadia]

Was it Taiwans where they started throwing chairs and hitting each other?

 

Bill (who might tune into C-Span to see some of that action)

Yes, though they are not the only ones to do that.

Taiwan citizens are Taiwanese.

[Spy Car]

Yes, though they are not the only ones to do that.

Taiwan citizens are Taiwanese.

I'm aware citizens of Taiwan are Taiwanese (unless one is a member of the PRC, who might have other thoughts about that). I accidentally left an apostrophe out of "Taiwan's" (with leglislature inferred).

 

I'm tired.

 

Bill

[Farrar]

I do enjoy watching Taiwan's parliamentary debates. The british ones were too polite. I had not watch Australia's parliamentary sessions before. No intention to insult any country.

 

ETA:

What I dont understand is that this is the 2nd time govt. has a shutdown. The 1st being during Bill Clinton's presidency. Why is there no SOP in place to deal with a govt. shutdown?

Actually, there were many others before the big 95-96 one. They're rare, but they happen.

 

If we lived in a parliamentary system not only might we get fistfights, but this nonsense wouldn't be tolerated. When the parliament doesn't do their jobs, in most counties you get to vote for a new one.

[Murphy101]

Yeah, we want NOAA to be treated like royalty. We even send people to other countries to learn to NOAA right. Oklahoma is ass backwards about a lot of things but NOAA is BEST THING EVAR!!!! Don't mess with it!

 

If it was May the Oklahoma Reps would be hyperventilating. Seriously.

What's NOAA?

[redsquirrel]

What's NOAA?

 

https://www.google.com/#q=NOAA

[mlbuchina]

I do enjoy watching Taiwan's parliamentary debates. The british ones were too polite. I had not watch Australia's parliamentary sessions before. No intention to insult any country.

 

ETA:

What I dont understand is that this is the 2nd time govt. has a shutdown. The 1st being during Bill Clinton's presidency. Why is there no SOP in place to deal with a govt. shutdown?

This is the 17th time it has shut down.

 

 

Many  :grouphug:  to those affected.

[Arcadia]

I accidentally left an apostrophe out of "Taiwan's" (with leglislature inferred).

I'm tired.

Bill

 

It is my fault. Should have realized :)

 

This is the 17th time it has.

I guess this will be a good research assignment for my 7 year old. The newspapers make it sound like this is the second big one.

[lewelma]

You guys may not realize it, but the shutdown affects the NZ economy. The fall in the US dollar means that the NZ dollar was up, leading to more expensive, less competitive exports out of NZ. But then the NZ dollar began to slide because of the reduced risk appetite. Sounds like many of the businesses here just don't know how to plan with all the uncertainty.

 

The shutdown affects us all.

 

Ruth in NZ

[Mrs Mungo]

Was it Taiwans where they started throwing chairs and hitting each other?

 

 

The potential for fisticuffs would probably convince my dh to run for office.

[creekland]

How would states manage national parks and forest?

Well... we're rather avid outdoor folks and have been to many National and State parks.  I'm thinking hard and I can't come up with a National Park that was better run (meaning in better shape) than the State Parks.  It's early, so I might be missing something... but when we're camping we tend to know we'll have better sites in the state parks (not necessarily better views, but "kept up" bathrooms and similar).  By all means, keep the parks public (I do NOT want them privatized!), but I honestly have to say I think the states would likely do a better job with them to be honest.

 

I can't speak to the rest except to say I'm not in favor of "no" gov't (double negative intended even though I'm supposed to be an adviser to the Sec of Ed...).

 

The whole thing is nutso.

 

Bill

You and I agree on more than brisket!  ;)

 

I find myself waking up to disappointment in my gov't again... can the populous call for a vote NOW?  At least (and I do mean at least) get the National Parks open (or give them to the states)!  Kudos to those veterans yesterday who walked past the barriers...  Maybe we should all stand up and "just do it" (except I'm off to school today... so can't join y'all until later).

[Jane in NC]

My uncle works at the NWS. He seems to be home in a downward spiral of facebook ranting against congress.

 

I am a bit worried about NWS workers being home. I guess it is good it isn't storm season atm.

 

It has been a quiet hurricane season so far but it is far from over.  Some of our worst storms have struck in October.  Frankly I would feel happier with a fully functioning NWS/NOAA.

[Jane in NC]

Well... we're rather avid outdoor folks and have been to many National and State parks.  I'm thinking hard and I can't come up with a National Park that was better run (meaning in better shape) than the State Parks.  It's early, so I might be missing something... but when we're camping we tend to know we'll have better sites in the state parks (not necessarily better views, but "kept up" bathrooms and similar).  By all means, keep the parks public (I do NOT want them privatized!), but I honestly have to say I think the states would likely do a better job with them to be honest.

 

To be fair, the National Park Service has been under funded for decades.  I can't imagine my current crop of legislators being willing to fund the Great Smokey Mountain National Park here in NC*.  Pragmatically, NC and TN would have to agree to manage this national treasure.  Good luck with that.

 

We are a fan of campsites and trails in National Forest Service properties. I suspect those campsites are closed as well.  Ugh. 

 

*This shut down affects all of the businesses that cater to the leaf peepers this time of year.  Not just federal employees!

[creekland]

To be fair, the National Park Service has been under funded for decades. 

:iagree:   This is part of why I think many states would/could do a better job - the other part being what we've actually seen most states do with their own parks.  One never knows I suppose.

 

Being totally selfish, if I could do the national budget, our national parks would be totally funded.  I think they are one of our national treasures and are worth keeping up decently.

[Parrothead]

Well... we're rather avid outdoor folks and have been to many National and State parks. I'm thinking hard and I can't come up with a National Park that was better run (meaning in better shape) than the State Parks. It's early, so I might be missing something... but when we're camping we tend to know we'll have better sites in the state parks (not necessarily better views, but "kept up" bathrooms and similar). By all means, keep the parks public (I do NOT want them privatized!), but I honestly have to say I think the states would likely do a better job with them to be honest.

 

I can't speak to the rest except to say I'm not in favor of "no" gov't (double negative intended even though I'm supposed to be an adviser to the Sec of Ed...).

 

You and I agree on more than brisket! ;)

 

I find myself waking up to disappointment in my gov't again... can the populous call for a vote NOW? At least (and I do mean at least) get the National Parks open (or give them to the states)! Kudos to those veterans yesterday who walked past the barriers... Maybe we should all stand up and "just do it" (except I'm off to school today... so can't join y'all until later).

That won't happen. The masses have been sedated with reality TV and celebrity gossip that passes for news. They just don't care. Or think it is "good for us" to go through the uncertainty. Someone mentioned FB feeds that tell such a story.

[redsquirrel]

Well... we're rather avid outdoor folks and have been to many National and State parks.  I'm thinking hard and I can't come up with a National Park that was better run (meaning in better shape) than the State Parks.  It's early, so I might be missing something... but when we're camping we tend to know we'll have better sites in the state parks (not necessarily better views, but "kept up" bathrooms and similar).  By all means, keep the parks public (I do NOT want them privatized!), but I honestly have to say I think the states would likely do a better job with them to be honest.

 

I can't speak to the rest except to say I'm not in favor of "no" gov't (double negative intended even though I'm supposed to be an adviser to the Sec of Ed...).

 

You and I agree on more than brisket!  ;)

 

I find myself waking up to disappointment in my gov't again... can the populous call for a vote NOW?  At least (and I do mean at least) get the National Parks open (or give them to the states)!  Kudos to those veterans yesterday who walked past the barriers...  Maybe we should all stand up and "just do it" (except I'm off to school today... so can't join y'all until later).

The state's don't want the expense and responsibility of the parks. If the fed tried to pass off the parks, especially some of the larger ones, to the states I would expect more than a few lawsuits by the states to stop them.

 

It isn't a matter of state government doing it as well or better than federal government, but the states not wanting to do it at all.

[Slartibartfast]

Was it Taiwans where they started throwing chairs and hitting each other?

 

Bill (who might tune into C-Span to see some of that action)

 

 

It is mostly Taiwan but Japan does that too sometimes. I love Cspan on the offseason.

 

It appears there is a greatest hits video

 

[Spy Car]

It is mostly Taiwan but Japan does that too sometimes. I love Cspan on the offseason.

 

It appears there is a greatest hits video

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ-hNVfTZqw

Great stuff!

 

We, of course, have Senator Charles Sumner being beaten with a cane by Congressman Preston Brooks, but no YouTube video on that one (I think).

 

Bill

[Slartibartfast]

Great stuff!

 

We, of course, have Senator Charles Sumner being beaten with a cane by Congressman Preston Brooks, but no YouTube video on that one (I think).

 

Bill

 

That's a real tragedy. :(

[mommymilkies]

:iagree:   This is part of why I think many states would/could do a better job - the other part being what we've actually seen most states do with their own parks.  One never knows I suppose.

 

Being totally selfish, if I could do the national budget, our national parks would be totally funded.  I think they are one of our national treasures and are worth keeping up decently.

Not here in IL.  State parks are super gross a good part of the time. I have yet to find one that was taken care of, staffed, or had any upkeep. 

[Slartibartfast]

The state's don't want the expense and responsibility of the parks. If the fed tried to pass off the parks, especially some of the larger ones, to the states I would expect more than a few lawsuits by the states to stop them.

 

It isn't a matter of state government doing it as well or better than federal government, but the states not wanting to do it at all.

 

Exactly. If they tried to pass the EPA off to the states I am sure some would ignore it entirely. Some of us like "big government" functions that others do not. 

[Slartibartfast]

I have to say that SC has some  beautiful state parks.

 

We moved here from Kansas about a year ago and we use the state parks nearly every week; we would go years between using the state parks in Kansas. 

[mommymilkies]

Indiana's state parks are also really amazing.  IL has some major budget issues and many historical areas and parks were completely shut down in the past few years.  The ones that are still open we go to quite often and I have never seen a ranger or worker in the past 5 years and the bathrooms look like it's been that long, too.  :lol:

[vonfirmath]

The state's don't want the expense and responsibility of the parks. If the fed tried to pass off the parks, especially some of the larger ones, to the states I would expect more than a few lawsuits by the states to stop them.

 

It isn't a matter of state government doing it as well or better than federal government, but the states not wanting to do it at all.

 

As I recall Arizona tried desperately to KEEP the Federal Government out of national parking the Grand Canyon.

[Slartibartfast]

The undiagnosed disease program of the NIH is affected by this shutdown - people (some children) have been waiting YEARS for the appointments with these doctors, and this is so unfair for them. :( I don't want to post personal information here, but - it is more than employment that is affected by this horrible irresponsibility. :(

 

I think it is bullcrap that the NIH isn't considered essential. :(

 

Who decides what is essential and what is not?

[Slartibartfast]

As I recall Arizona tried desperately to KEEP the Federal Government out of national parking the Grand Canyon.

 

They cannot even fund the state parks they have.

 

I don't believe the people who wanted to return the Grand Canyon to state control wanted to actually take care of the Grand Canyon as much as they wanted to strip mine it. I have personally spoken to enough Native American leaders from Arizona that I believe such an assertion is well founded.

 

I am sure some people support that sort of thing but that is EXACTLY why we have Federal Parks.

 

It was rejected by Arizona voters.

 

“Let this great wonder of nature remain as it now is. Do nothing to mar its grandeur.†Theodore Roosevelt.

[MBM]

I agree about the NIH and people who've been waiting for treatment who are not getting seen. That is completely unacceptable. I am so sorry if this is affecting your family, Katie. :(

 

What happens to the ongoing research that requires daily oversight? Are those researchers considered essential? What a mess.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Another point, the government should not be this big that so many people are impacted.  That is a HUGE problem!  The fed's are not suppose to be this big and involved in our life.  Let's get back to LOCAL control!

:)

Hot Lava Mama

 

In a nation of 350,000,000+, the government will be "large". 

[*lifeoftheparty*]

.

[Slartibartfast]

I guess another uncle that works for the US Patent office probably isn't working he is one of those engineer types though so he hasn't told us anything. :lol:

[Parrothead]

Yes. I have been in one heated argument with people who don't feel sorry for us because we "get a nice little vacation and then return back to gold star employment with perks paid for by the taxpayer" and afterall, we have "no idea what the average American has been going through these past couple of years". :-/ They are severely uneducated and ignorant.

 

Then there was the meme from some pastor with a quote from Dave Ramsay that said, "Good News! You're life was never dependent on the government, now you will get to realize it" WHich doesn't seem so bad, but it's still being flippant and non chalant about a government shut down that will affect so many.

 

And many more that just get my blood boiling.

 

Yeah, vacation.  Riiiight.  Tell that to dh who has had to go to work all week and not get paid for it.  I'd like to see some of the private sector try that one.  They would be screaming for the government to intervene.

[alef]

We're in the process of selling a house, supposed to close this week. Turns out there are a lot of federal agencies involved in real estate transactions. Our realtor says the process is far enough along in our case they are hoping for only a couple of days' delay, we shall see. She says people are running into problems with underwriting because government agencies like SS and the IRS cannot respond to queries fast enough. 

[Arcadia]

Yeah, vacation.  Riiiight.  Tell that to dh who has had to go to work all week and not get paid for it.  I'd like to see some of the private sector try that one.  They would be screaming for the government to intervene.

The private company hubby works for has furlough for more than a week too in the past few years.  The whole week's worth of work just sits on their in-tray and email inbox.  California has the 5th highest unemployment rate according to U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics  .  People just job hunt instead of bothering with government intervention.  There is pretty high chance of furlough again this year.

I had worked in private sector all my life and I can honestly say that working through furlough/forced vacation is much less tiring than dealing with the piling work after the furlough period especially when working in MNCs. Global customers are not interested in whether you as an employee of their supplier gets paid, they want their stuff or they give their business to a competitor.  

 

I understand you are annoyed but private sector does not have it cushy either. I do prefer the private sector though because I have less bureaucracy to deal with.

 

ETA:

California govt. decided not to bail out the national parks.

"California Gov. Jerry Brown, whose state is home to 26 national park units, from Yosemite to Death Valley to Point Reyes National Seashore, said no state money will be offered to keep the gates open.

....

On Monday, the governor of South Dakota, Republican Dennis Daugaard, sent a letter to the director of the National Park Service offering state funding and employees to help keep open Mount Rushmore, the state's top tourist attraction.

......

Arizona's current Gov. Jan Brewer said Monday her cabinet considered the idea but the state won't bail out the Grand Canyon this time."

[KungFuPanda]

DH is a contractor. Around here it is widely assumed/expected that the furloughed govt workers will end up with back pay. This won't happen for the contractors. Now, a few days won't jeopardize the mortgage payment, but it IS nerve-wracking to not know how long you have to hold out. Each day is more money bleeding out of the budget. Two weeks would be unpleasant. DH is making the best of it while I'm trying not to think about it too much. Ugh.

[Mrs Mungo]

Yes. I have been in one heated argument with people who don't feel sorry for us because we "get a nice little vacation and then return back to gold star employment with perks paid for by the taxpayer" and afterall, we have "no idea what the average American has been going through these past couple of years". :-/ They are severely uneducated and ignorant.

They are idiots. They really have NO idea who they are talking about when they complain about "government workers." Most government employees earn *less* than their peers that work for private companies. The benefits are what makes up for the difference. Personally, I love the military, the federal police force, National Parks, the highway system, the Post Office and all of the other things that contribute to a functional civilization.

 

Then there was the meme from some pastor with a quote from Dave Ramsay that said, "Good News! You're life was never dependent on the government, now you will get to realize it" WHich doesn't seem so bad, but it's still being flippant and non chalant about a government shut down that will affect so many.

What does that even mean? Yes, many *aspects* of *everyone's* lives are dependent upon government and government employees doing their jobs. Do people really want to live in the Congo or other places with anarchy? They don't tend to be nice places to live.

[Wheres Toto]

:grouphug:  to all having to deal with worries related to the shutdown.  My uncle is semi-retired from the NOAA (he still consults quite a bit).

 

I'm curious in relation to the whole - turn the National Parks over to the states - question.  How many of the National Parks cross state borders?   Besides what I'm sure would be logistical problems, I don't agree with turning them over to state control for some of the reasons previously mentioned - strip mining/improper use, inconsistent funding.

 

[Arcadia]

 

 

I'm curious in relation to the whole - turn the National Parks over to the states - question.  How many of the National Parks cross state borders?  

I don't know but here is a nice USA map of the National Parks, Monuments with state boundaries from Kids Britannica

http://kids.britannica.com/elementary/art-163976

 

Federal Wildlife Refuges are closed too and are not shown in that map.

[creekland]

Another morning wake up and check of the news.  Another disappointment - esp upon finding out one group (I think it was the House, but I was making breakfast so could be incorrect) did pass a provision to open the NIH, National Parks, and something else (forgot what), then the other group said, "no deal."

 

I dislike both groups equally for getting us into this mess.  I REALLY dislike the group not willing to compromise to keep really important things (like the NIH) open.

 

I've been disillusioned with politics for several years now only surfacing to vote in each election (primaries too).  Now I'm finding myself with a new feeling... hate.  It's not a good feeling... (and we actually aren't affected in any sort of major way).  I'd love to sweep them all out of office and turn over the matter (this matter, not all matters) to a coin toss.  Group A's plan gets Heads.  Group B's plan gets Tails.  Either way, we settle the deal and get things running again.

 

But I'll offer more :grouphug: (and new "Likes") for those affected.

 

I really don't have high hopes for gov't funding later this month.

[marbel]

Yes. I have been in one heated argument with people who don't feel sorry for us because we "get a nice little vacation and then return back to gold star employment with perks paid for by the taxpayer" and afterall, we have "no idea what the average American has been going through these past couple of years". :-/ They are severely uneducated and ignorant.

 

 

Not arguing with your comment or sentiment but how would people be better educated about it?  People see news stories and reports about high-level government employees retiring (or being forced to retire due to misbehavior) with huge pensions.  Stories about agencies throwing lavish parties in resort cities for employees.  Or there are people who have been mistreated by a government agency/employee and generalize their experience.  Etc.  Even if these are not all federal employees, people can't or don't always make the distinction. 

 

People shouldn't be making general assumptions about all government employees, of course, and there's no reason for snarky comments.  But I don't think it's surprising that a lot of people have the idea that most government jobs (aside from the military) are secure, high-paying, and offer great (guaranteed) retirement benefits.  Please notice that I'm not saying that's reality but I'm not surprised by that perception.

 

I'm sorry for all who are affected by it.

[Jane in NC]

Another morning wake up and check of the news.  Another disappointment - esp upon finding out one group (I think it was the House, but I was making breakfast so could be incorrect) did pass a provision to open the NIH, National Parks, and something else (forgot what), then the other group said, "no deal."

 

 

I heard one explanation of why piecemeal funding really doesn't work.  The example given in an NPR story was that if the VA was fully funded, they couldn't process certain types of claims without input from the Social Security Administration which wouldn't be funded. 

 

I fear that our elected officials fail to understand the complexity of government itself. 

[FaithManor]

Yeah, vacation.  Riiiight.  Tell that to dh who has had to go to work all week and not get paid for it.  I'd like to see some of the private sector try that one.  They would be screaming for the government to intervene.

I agree. I am sick of the colossal ignorance of many Americans.

 

If dd were still working in this county as a medic, she'd be on the road without pay. Rural counties often do not have the tax revenue necessary to provide emergency services without federal grant money. EMS here is heavily funded this way.

 

I can absolutely guarantee you my neighbors would not go to work for no pay. NOT happening. But, they would for d*mn sure be the first to scream bloody murder if they needed ambulance, fire, search and rescue, or police protection and it wasn't available so they are perfectly okay with other people working for free to guarantee them services - the me, myself, and I mentality is strong.

 

Did anyone else wake up this morning with a strong desire to relocate congress to a bio-dome in Antarctica? See, this is my new thinking. They all have to hold session there. If they don't have their work done by the time the "winter" season arrives, they will be stranded for several months with no hope of evacuation. My assumption is that this would be good motivation to be efficient and play nice so that they can go home in a timely manner. Let's move them to the South Pole! :D

[Parrothead]

I agree. I am sick of the colossal ignorance of many Americans.

 

If dd were still working in this county as a medic, she'd be on the road without pay. Rural counties often do not have the tax revenue necessary to provide emergency services without federal grant money. EMS here is heavily funded this way.

 

I can absolutely guarantee you my neighbors would not go to work for no pay. NOT happening. But, they would for d*mn sure be the first to scream bloody murder if they needed ambulance, fire, search and rescue, or police protection and it wasn't available so they are perfectly okay with other people working for free to guarantee them services - the me, myself, and I mentality is strong.

 

Did anyone else wake up this morning with a strong desire to relocate congress to a bio-dome in Antarctica? See, this is my new thinking. They all have to hold session there. If they don't have their work done by the time the "winter" season arrives, they will be stranded for several months with no hope of evacuation. My assumption is that this would be good motivation to be efficient and play nice so that they can go home in a timely manner. Let's move them to the South Pole! :D

Do we really have to give them the bio-dome?

[*Michelle*]

?? Surely you know people who have been forced to work off the clock.  It starts with teens and fast food cleanup and it continues into regular employment.

Not being paid for overtime is done all the time - many companies have caps on OT and they make the employee choose between finishing the task on their own time, or moving on to a different job.  Not being paid for travel when one is hourly is also very very common as is working thru lunch.  It is also common for one to be denied vacation, usually because the company is short staff, and then not be able to cash out or accumulate beyond a certain number of hours. I don't know anyone in this era who works a 40 hr week in private industry....short staffing has been common here since the first wave of corporate layoffs in the 90s. People are told they should be thankful to have a job, when in reality they have their own job plus that of five others who were laid off.

 

Working off the clock is a lot different than reporting for your normal hours without pay.  When I was an RN, I always showed up early and reviewed my records and got my meds ready and so forth before my shift started in order to have a smoother day.  Sure, I get that.  But if my supervisor had called me up and and said, "we need you to work 5 shifts this week, but we can't pay you," I would have laughed at her and started looking for another job.

 

It's a little different when you're working for the Government and the Government tells you to show up.

 

[Jen in NY]

People are told they should be thankful to have a job, when in reality they have their own job plus that of five others who were laid off.

Yeah... I know an anecdote isn't a statistic... but my dh gets a salary (that hasn't gone up since he started working for the company! They've had a pay freeze for *years*) and he works many, many hours more than 40. Closer to 65 or 70, in truth. Arg. And will never have a pension. Arg, again.

[FaithManor]

?? Surely you know people who have been forced to work off the clock.  It starts with teens and fast food cleanup and it continues into regular employment.

Not being paid for overtime is done all the time - many companies have caps on OT and they make the employee choose between finishing the task on their own time, or moving on to a different job.  Not being paid for travel when one is hourly is also very very common as is working thru lunch.  It is also common for one to be denied vacation, usually because the company is short staff, and then not be able to cash out or accumulate beyond a certain number of hours. I don't know anyone in this era who works a 40 hr week in private industry....short staffing has been common here since the first wave of corporate layoffs in the 90s. People are told they should be thankful to have a job, when in reality they have their own job plus that of five others who were laid off.

 

Do you know any industry where people commonly double or triple their pay thru OT and cashing out vacation, as do gov't workers such as police?

This is not the same at all. DD has at times clocked out, but still finished a report or cleaned a rig. But, she got paid for her shift. If she were working in our rural county today, she would work four, twelve hour shifts per week for NO PAY.

 

My husband has put in many a comp time hour, but he has ALWAYS received his negotiated salary or hourly wage for the prescribed shift. He has NEVER, not once, ever had a private employer fail to issue his paycheck. If that happens, the employer is in trouble HUGELY with the state and the penalties are not kind.

 

We, the employer called the United States of America, made of up voters and taxpayers who expect for police to protect us, EMS to run the roads saving our lives, firefighters to protect our communities, military personnel to secure us, ......expect them to work for NOTHING? This is acceptable???  You can say all you want about back pay, but you can't go to the grocery store and promise your back-pay to the manager and be allowed to take out food, nor can you give an IOU to the electrical company, or the bank. One missed payment, just one, and our local banks will instantly begin repossession. It's legal for them to do so, and they have no compassion.

 

I, for one, do not have any comfort zone whatsoever with demanding services at the expense of real families and some of them will endure terrible hardship if this continues for more than a couple of weeks. I already know one police officer whose job is funded by federal grant that will not be able to make his house payment next week. He's used his emergency funds in the past for the other mini-shutdowns and furloughs. As it is, he has worked for months getting paid for only four shifts of work weekly, but required to work five shifts. So he's had the pay cut, now he has no pay, but he's still on the roads protecting and serving. I cannot imagine how any American should think this is okay. When did we become so cold/hard-hearted as a nation that we just brazenly believe everyone else was put on planet earth to serve us without compensation. When did we stop caring so completely about real people.

[MBM]

I heard one explanation of why piecemeal funding really doesn't work.  The example given in an NPR story was that if the VA was fully funded, they couldn't process certain types of claims without input from the Social Security Administration which wouldn't be funded. 

 

I fear that our elected officials fail to understand the complexity of government itself. 

 

Exactly. My husband's department has multiple ongoing projects that need input from other agencies and conversely, they need input from him. IOW, he can't get his work done without numbers from other agencies and vice versa. Next week he has to get a huge 10-year project back on track that involves Social Security, and that is why he has to recall staff. 

 

You are right about elected officials not understanding the complexity of government. Dh has to work with members of Congress at times and he sees it often enough.