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why is it we, as a group, can't have any kind of discussion other than very superficial that doesn't end up

Parrothead

By Parrothead,
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Wildcat

Wildcat

Posted
Posted

I think people here tend to say things they wouldn't normally say to others' faces, and that gets everyone worked up.

 

As for the deleted vs locked, I don't get it. Yes, there were some unnecessary comments, but the many informative posts far surpassed those. There have been several threads deleted that I would rather have just been locked to preserve the helpful info.

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mamaraby

mamaraby

Posted
Posted

Because it's the internet?

And being text/written word based, it tends to promote a certain level of word by word critique.

 

Because some things are too divisive for a forum where posters come froma wide variety of backgrounds and perspectives? Because it's hard to have a general conversation where people take a relative view towards the issue when one (or both sides) insist that they have cornered the truth?

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milovany

milovany

Posted
Posted

I read the latest responses this morning and didn't see anything bad?  Not sure what happened.  I appreciated the conversation and didn't see it as an inflammatory thread.  I must have a high tolerance for flammation ;) because when threads are locked or deleted I'm often left scratching my head as to why.  Oh, well.  Bye, bye useful information. 

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ErinE

ErinE

Posted
Posted

As for the deleted vs locked, I don't get it. Yes, there were some unnecessary comments, but the many informative posts far surpassed those. There have been several threads deleted that I would rather have just been locked to preserve the helpful info.

I thought the information on the thread was very useful and interesting, for both RCC and EO faiths. Too bad it's gone.

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Jennifer3141

Jennifer3141

Posted
Posted

And being text/written word based, it tends to promote a certain level of word by word critique.

 

Because some things are too divisive for a forum where posters come froma wide variety of backgrounds and perspectives? Because it's hard to have a general conversation where people take a relative view towards the issue when one (or both sides) insist that they have cornered the truth?

 

The internet is good for scheduling social revolution as in, "Let's all go down to the square and protest President Mubarak's dictatorship!" and cat pictures and the anonymous purchasing of sexual aids. Maybe every once in awhile... books you cannot find in your local library from so they need to be purchased from amazon.

 

But as for real discourse or in depth critical analysis of nearly any subject, I think the interwebs is horrible for it.

 

That's one of the major reasons why I think our collective letting go of true journalism and settling for blogs written by a whole lot of untrained idiocy is not a great sign for us as a people. I'd like to bring Walter Conkite and Charles Kuralt back from the dead and put them in charge of training people in communcating events.

 

And the web has isolated so many people. I see people posting stuff here about their lives and I can't help but think, "Why are you telling a bunch of strangers that!?!? Where's your best friend?!" And then I remember that far too many people have let "real life" people go. :(

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Desert Strawberry

Desert Strawberry

Posted
Posted

The OP of that thread asked that her last thread that turned controversial be deleted. Perhaps she did the same with this one.

This is my suspicion as well.

It makes sense to me that the poster must ask for a thread to be deleted. I assumed the mods were making the choice. It seems to me that certain posters have very low tolerance for disagreement and dissension, even in the phrasing of comments , taking offense to anything that isn't phrased in the very gentlest manner.

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unsinkable

unsinkable

Posted
Posted

This is my suspicion as well.

It makes sense to me that the poster must ask for a thread to be deleted. I assumed the mods were making the choice. It seems to me that certain posters have very low tolerance for disagreement and dissension, even in the phrasing of comments , taking offense to anything that isn't phrased in the very gentlest manner.

I didn't like the way Jinnah kept saying the RCC's marriage stance was awful and terrible. I told her that after she did it a number of times. I wasn't the only one.

 

What I didn't do was report any of the posts.

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JustEm

JustEm

Posted
Posted

Well now I'm pissed to realize that thread was deleted!  I spent a lot of time invested on that thread because I wanted to educate OP and others on the teachings of the Catholic Church.  Now when the next question like that arises I either have to repeat myself all over again (since I can't link to it) or ignore an honest inquiry.  

 

If the OP asked for it to be deleted I think the moderators were wrong to oblige.  There was useful info in it, very little hostile comments, and if anything it made the OP look bad(not to me but to others.)  So she wanted it deleted to spare her image being tarnished which she did herself.  Thats bullshit

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elegantlion

elegantlion

Posted
Posted

You know when you start a thread you don't own it. It creates a life of its own. If you don't like the direction you shouldn't just ask for it to be deleted, that's childish and makes more work for the mods. There are plenty of people who are willing to "chat" behind the scenes, that's what PMs are for. 

 

If search isn't working trying googling and adding well-trained mind to your search, it will pull posts from this board, ones that I can't find with the search feature here. 

 

As a previous regular poster would say, "Put on your big girl panties and deal with it." 

 

This is a vast community, world-wide with diverse beliefs and experiences and attitudes. If you're not willing to accept that and realize you will get people you don't like, don't agree with, and perhaps ones you find offensive replying to your post, then don't post. There is also a wonderful feature called ignore, learn it, use, know it. 

 

I have learned so much from some of the truly contentious threads. I've learned a new perspective, compassion for a situation I didn't truly understand until I saw it from another's eyes, patience in dealing with people who misunderstood my words, tolerance for people I don't agree with, and a true respect for so many here. This community can be non-superficial, I've seen it. 

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Desert Strawberry

Desert Strawberry

Posted
Posted

Well now I'm pissed to realize that thread was deleted!  I spent a lot of time invested on that thread because I wanted to educate OP and others on the teachings of the Catholic Church.  Now when the next question like that arises I either have to repeat myself all over again (since I can't link to it) or ignore an honest inquiry.  

 

If the OP asked for it to be deleted I think the moderators were wrong to oblige.  There was useful info in it, very little hostile comments, and if anything it made the OP look bad(not to me but to others.)  So she wanted it deleted to spare her image being tarnished which she did herself.  Thats bullshit

I completely agree. How discouraging to put so much work into something just to have it thrown in the trash.

I'm a bit ticked that posters can have infinite do overs whenever they misbehave . I'I'm not usually one to use the t word, but inventing a ruckus, then deleting it repeatedly smells a little sour to me.

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ErinE

ErinE

Posted
Posted

But as for real discourse or in depth critical analysis of nearly any subject, I think the interwebs is horrible for it.

 

That's one of the major reasons why I think our collective letting go of true journalism and settling for blogs written by a whole lot of untrained idiocy is not a great sign for us as a people. I'd like to bring Walter Conkite and Charles Kuralt back from the dead and put them in charge of training people in communcating events.

I have to disagree. When Walter Cronkite was wrong, there was no outlet to say how wrong he was. When a journalist is wrong now, there's many voices (with far more expertise) that can explain why. The voices may be loud, the voices can be idiots, but journalists (then and now) have no special knowledge or skill set other than sometimes being able to string words together well.

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albeto.

albeto.

Posted
Posted

But as for real discourse or in depth critical analysis of nearly any subject, I think the interwebs is horrible for it.

Oh, I disagree. Offline I'm really not at all confrontational. I smile and nod, I agree, I ask questions politely, and listen to people talk politely. Online I have the opportunity to pick apart what is said to see if there's any merit in the idea. I get to ponder an idea and come back to the conversation minutes, hours, even days later whereas offline my response is immediate, impulsive, and trite. I know I'm not alone in this, but I do recognize there is a lot of crud to wade through, a lot of logical fallacies to get in the way. I try and find resources that are informative rather than opinionated, and with a gazillion resources out there, I have a plethora of sites to choose from.

 

 

And the web has isolated so many people. I see people posting stuff here about their lives and I can't help but think, "Why are you telling a bunch of strangers that!?!? Where's your best friend?!" And then I remember that far too many people have let "real life" people go. :(

Not everyone online finds conversations offline easy. There are millions of people with some measure of social anxiety who simply don't have "real life people" to go to. People online are "real life," they just communicate through the written word.

 

As for why the marriage thread was deleted, I can only imagine. It's frustrating to put time and effort into something that is arbitrarily censored. Censorship is one thing that is coming into light more and more, actually thanks to online communities exposing it, and conversations like this in which hundreds of people (millions on other sites) expose censorship. It was interesting to me to see the juxtaposition between the homeopathy thread thread and the marriage thread. In the homeopathy thread, people can say "it's bunk," they can call it a scam, they can point out there's not a shred of evidence to support it, it's a means of taking money from the foolish and gullible, but if someone were to say the same words about someone's religion, those comments would be censored and the poster would be punished in some way (points, bans, dogpiled). Interestingly, the thread that had to do with religion was perfectly polite and courteous, but because the topic is so sensitive, it must be protected, at least in someone's opinion.  How ironic to see a topic censored from critical analysis on a forum that exists to support home educators who use critical analysis as the foundation for the education they provide.

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TracyP

TracyP

Posted
Posted

egregg23, I totally agree. I was just an outsider looking in, but that thread was a hugely informative thread to me. Far beyond the scope of just Catholic marriage. There were some excellent posts that I wanted to come back to. I am (this doesn't quite cut it) extremely bummed.

 

 

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momee

momee

Posted
Posted

I didn't read the thread at all but have contemplated starting a conversation about the way some of us treat each other here.

 

I agree that it must be the online factor.  I think in the "real world" as well people have lost a sense of accountability to each other.

 

The tone of the WTM boards has definitely changed over the 7/8 years I've been here.  I have read some things lately that make me wonder..."Wow, would she say that to her face?"  I also try to make note so as not to participate in a thread certain people are in.  Grace seems to be something some refuse to offer if someone replies in a way that could be misread.

 

In my opinion rudeness and (dare I say it) indecency is on the increase.

Just sayin'.

 

 

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Jennifer3141

Jennifer3141

Posted
Posted

I have to disagree. When Walter Cronkite was wrong, there was no outlet to say how wrong he was. When a journalist is wrong now, there's many voices (with far more expertise) that can explain why. The voices may be loud, the voices can be idiots, but journalists (then and now) have no special knowledge or skill set other than sometimes being able to string words together well.

 

When Walter Cronkite was a journalist, he actually gave a rip about whether he was right or wrong. He did not jump all over AP rumors and then stand back and say, "I just went with what the other guys were saying!" People were more patient because they wanted accuracy and a better standard of "facts" and "truth" than we are being offered today.

 

Stories were researched and verified. For example, I read an article about Girl Scouts of America's updated camping polices this week. The blogger never actually checked the spelling of the FOUNDER'S name. Two days later, he threw up the sentence, "Hey, sorry I got HIS name wrong in my first draft.

 

I was so tempted to write back with, "Hey, thanks for throwing a ROUGH draft out there on the web to start with, Numb Nut. And by the way, 'Juliette' should be a tip off that you're yakking about a woman."

 

And then you have a subsection of society that thinks if it's on the web, it must be true because someone PUBLISHED it. If you're a blogger, you must know what you're talking about, right?!??

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JudoMom

JudoMom

Posted
Posted

You know when you start a thread you don't own it. It creates a life of its own. If you don't like the direction you shouldn't just ask for it to be deleted, that's childish and makes more work for the mods. There are plenty of people who are willing to "chat" behind the scenes, that's what PMs are for. 

 

If search isn't working trying googling and adding well-trained mind to your search, it will pull posts from this board, ones that I can't find with the search feature here. 

 

As a previous regular poster would say, "Put on your big girl panties and deal with it." 

 

This is a vast community, world-wide with diverse beliefs and experiences and attitudes. If you're not willing to accept that and realize you will get people you don't like, don't agree with, and perhaps ones you find offensive replying to your post, then don't post. There is also a wonderful feature called ignore, learn it, use, know it. 

 

I have learned so much from some of the truly contentious threads. I've learned a new perspective, compassion for a situation I didn't truly understand until I saw it from another's eyes, patience in dealing with people who misunderstood my words, tolerance for people I don't agree with, and a true respect for so many here. This community can be non-superficial, I've seen it. 

 

It used to be the only thing we couldn't talk about here in a civil manner was politics (we did try, though, but managed to screw it up every time).  It's a shame that it's changed; I've learned so much in the decade I've been here.

 

 

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Jean in Newcastle

Jean in Newcastle

Posted
Posted

I don't understand the comments comparing an online forum to what someone would say in speech.  This is written communication.  It is different.  Yes, I do say things here that I wouldn't in speech because I wouldn't be able to formulate my thoughts and even arguments in as coherent a way when speaking extemporaneously.  I agree that I don't like it when people are rude but sometimes people think that any kind of a discussion or dissenting opinion is rude when it isn't.  

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Dandelion

Dandelion

Posted
Posted

I'm one of those who didn't post in the thread, but I was reading it with great interest.  My impression was that it was a thoughtful discussion with the majority of posters putting quite a bit of time, effort, and care in into their responses.

 

It seems that more threads are getting deleted vs. just locked these days.  Locking makes sense to me (at times) when a discussion has devolved to a point that it's no longer productive.  The lawn mower thread from the other day should have been locked.  Instead, it was deleted.  Interestingly, that was the same OP as the one who started the Catholic marriage thread.

 

If this trend continues, I imagine that the quality of discussions on this forum is going to be negatively impacted.  Because many people aren't going to be willing to engage and invest in discussions if they think there's a high likelihood that a thread will be deleted. 

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Jean in Newcastle

Jean in Newcastle

Posted
Posted

I'm one of those who didn't post in the thread, but I was reading it with great interest.  My impression was that it was a thoughtful discussion with the majority of posters putting quite a bit of time, effort, and care in into their responses.

 

It seems that more threads are getting deleted vs. just locked these days.  Locking makes sense to me (at times) when a discussion has devolved to a point that it's no longer productive.  The lawn mower thread from the other day should have been locked.  Instead, it was deleted.  Interestingly, that was the same OP as the one who started the Catholic marriage thread.

 

If this trend continues, I imagine that the quality of discussions on this forum is going to be negatively impacted.  Because many people aren't going to be willing to engage and invest in discussions at a high level if they think there's a high likelihood that a thread will be deleted. 

I make a point not to participate in threads started by people who have a habit of asking them to be deleted.  I'm not calling out this particular poster.  She's not the only one to do it and I don't think had a habit of doing this until recently.  But this practice defeats the whole purpose of an online forum.  

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Orthodox6

Orthodox6

Posted
Posted

Well, the good thing is (applying some WTM math) the thread probably answered questions people had who never posted in the thread.

 

Possibly the majority of threads that I ever have read at WTM include rabbit-chasing.  Sometimes it ruins a thread, sometimes it enhances the original post by providing related content-for-thought.

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milovany

milovany

Posted
Posted

This is my suspicion as well.

It's not correct. Jinnah did not ask for the thread to be deleted. Sure she was vocal in her disagreement with the RC stance, but so what? That's what we do here. She wasn't rude, just incredulous and not in agreement. So she wasn't aware that saying "Catholic or Christian" could be offensive; WE can choose to not be offended. Believe the best and all. Sad that people report this and create the idea that she's being argumentative just to stir things up. I've PM'd with her much, and her questions are sincere.

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nmoira

nmoira

Posted
Posted

Deleting threads also erases evidence of bad behavior on the part of a few posters. Far better in my opinion for the moderator to quote a couple egregious posts and then say, "This is why the thread is being locked." Some people are just nasty, and covering up for them by removing the evidence won't make them nice. It's a pity that an informative thread with posts members have put considerable thought into just goes *poof*.

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nmoira

nmoira

Posted
Posted

I make a point not to participate in threads started by people who have a habit of asking them to be deleted.  I'm not calling out this particular poster.  She's not the only one to do it and I don't think had a habit of doing this until recently.  But this practice defeats the whole purpose of an online forum.  

 

I don't have a good enough sense of who to "avoid" to do that.  ETA: Well, with a couple exceptions. :)

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Kathryn

Kathryn

Posted
Posted

I make a point not to participate in threads started by people who have a habit of asking them to be deleted. I'm not calling out this particular poster. She's not the only one to do it and I don't think had a habit of doing this until recently. But this practice defeats the whole purpose of an online forum.

Well, I must admit that given this poster's history of controversial/inflammatory statements and the deleted thread, I only took the time to post about my own experience in the EO Church, not to defend it. And then did point out that I found her statements to one poster in particular and setting up a Christian vs. Catholic dichotomy rude. Had I not recognized the poster as someone I felt had a history of pot-stirring, I would have felt more inclined to put more into my posts.

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Seasider

Seasider

Posted
Posted

I wasn't in on the particular thread in question, but I have to chime in here about all the threads that start with, "Don't quote me, I'll probably delete this later." Perhaps the rest of you find this a reasonable practice, I find it frustrating.

 

I do think there are good cases for some entire thread deletion, but dissenting opinions common to public, online forums is not among them. I do wish that instead of disappearing entirely, a thread could be replaced with a single post by a moderator briefly stating the reason for deletion (and that thread being locked).

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Moxie

Moxie

Posted
Posted

It's not correct. Jinnah did not ask for the thread to be deleted. Sute she was vocal in her disagreement with the RC stance, but so what? She wasn't rude, just incredulous and not in agreement. Sad that people report this and create the idea that she's being argumentative just to stir things up. I've PM'd with her much, and her questions are sincere.

If this is true (I'm not certain it is) than the post was deleted because people reported it? Do the moderators not read the threads when they are reported?

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unsinkable

unsinkable

Posted
Posted

It's not correct. Jinnah did not ask for the thread to be deleted. Sure she was vocal in her disagreement with the RC stance, but so what? She wasn't rude, just incredulous and not in agreement. Sad that people report this and create the idea that she's being argumentative just to stir things up. I've PM'd with her much, and her questions are sincere.

I disagree. Saying the RCC's stance on annulment is "awful" and "terrible" and "just wrong" is rude when you say over and over again to people who are going thru the annulment process and those who support it.

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JudoMom

JudoMom

Posted
Posted

I wasn't in on the particular thread in question, but I have to chime in here about all the threads that start with, "Don't quote me, I'll probably delete this later." Perhaps the rest of you find this a reasonable practice, I find it frustrating.

 

I do think there are good cases for some entire thread deletion, but dissenting opinions common to public, online forums is not among them. I do wish that instead of disappearing entirely, a thread could be replaced with a single post by a moderator briefly stating the reason for deletion (and that thread being locked).

 

I find it frustrating as well.  If it needs to be deleted at some point, it probably shouldn't even be posted.  

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swellmomma

swellmomma

Posted
Posted

I never read or posted in that thread so have no clue what is going on, but wanted to be included in this thread about it :)

Also as far as the internet vs "real life" people.  I have never had real life people in my life to go to.  Finding a place on the internet to share and talk etc is what has saved me from that isolation.  I could not imagine coping with my life as well as I do without having that outlet, I would have caved to the stresses and pressures a long time ago if I was limited to "real life" people because I would have remained completely isolated and alone.  It would have killed me honestly.So I get why people share so much online, and why they get so invested in the lives of others.  The people I connect with on here I do see as being my "real life" people kwim

As for threads being deleted.  It is disrespectful imo for people to ask for threads to be deleted simply because they do not like the answers being given.  The people that have replied have spent time and energy coming up with a reply, they have engaged with the OP in whatever thread and with anyone else participating, they are invested in sharing their truths with others and to requested (and have honored) to have the thread completely deleted is disrespectful to those posters.

I have seen it with other threads, including ones I was participating in and it is so frustrating.  Delete messages that are personal attacks for sure, lock a thread that is doing nothing but spinning in circles, but don't delete the whole thing because the OP didn't like the answers they got, those answers/information are helping educate someone else even if the OP of any given thread is being too close minded to consider anything other than their own views.  It is particularily frustrating when it becomes a pattern of a given poster, to get ina huff that they don't like responses and ask for threads to be deleted.  Asking for 1 thread ever to be deleted because it has gotten out of hand is one thing, making it a pattern of dealing with opposite opinions is another entirely.  If you don't want to hear other viewpoints, don't start a thread plain and simple. Don't ask people to take time out of their day to answer you to then whine it is the wrong answer and ask for a deletion.  THat is disrespectful and highly immature imo.

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