"Debunking Paleo Diet" TED talk

[MIch elle]

Interesting. Summary of what we now need to eat at the end (even though I'm sure most of us knew this already).

http://vimeo.com/67802064

[nmoira]

Also this from an evolutionary biologist:

 

Paleofantasy

 

Here's the author on Quirks & Quarks:

http://www.cbc.ca/pl...sort=MostRecent

[PrincessMommy]

very interesting! I'm not Paleo, but I am LC and I do try hard to avoid wheat for allergy issues (I like my dairy and fake sugar). My sister and her husband are huge Paleo fans... but I don't know that I'll send them this. I assume it's making the rounds on the Paleo websites. Besides, my BIL tends to be a bit of a diet Evangelists :) I would imagine that *many* friends have sent him this already.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Hmmm. I think the title of her talk was off. Seems to me that she made a pretty good argument for a paleo diet, especially toward the end. She named the lessons we could learn as (1) diversity/variety is key, (2) fresh, seasonal food is best, and (3) the consumption of whole foods is extremely important. These are all things that the paleo books I have read advocate. Paleo does not equal carnivore. Paleo is lots and lots of a variety of fresh fruits and vegetables and, yes, meat. She talks about the fact that the meat that would have been consumed back then would not have been farmed and that organs and marrow would have been eaten too. Well, the paleo resources I've seen advocate organic, 100% grass-fed meat and, again, yes, eating the marrow and organs because in this quality of animal, they would be good for you.

 

A real paleolithic person could not have eaten the amount of sugar in a coke...or it would take 8.5 feet of sugar cane to do it. Well, yeah, paleo advocates now aren't drinking cokes, so huh? It's true, but irrelevant to this conversation, or at least to this conversation if she wants to keep her title. Paleo diets do not advocate processed food of any kind, the same processed foods she was dissing at the end of her talk.

 

The only thing I see where she is even coming close to debunking the paleo diet is saying that there is evidence that paleo people ate grains, legumes, and tubers. Well, yep. But they didn't eat spaghetti, toast for breakfast, a sandwich for lunch, pasta for dinner, cake for dessert, refined sugar-laden cereal, etc. They ate what was available, ancient wild grains. So, again, she's not really debunking anything. Yes, some paleo people now will not eat any grains, tubers, or legumes but even though I say I eat pretty much paleo now, I do eat potatoes and beans. I do not (but would, if I liked it) eat quinoa. I eat rice (very) occasionally.

 

Anyway, her talk was interesting but not well-titled. Is she really anti a paleo diet? Or does she not really understand what it is and think that they are really advocating eating a raw beef steak for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. (LOL, they're not.) I am really not sure where she was going with that whole thing about modern fruits and veggies being "farmer's food." Like, hahaha, you paleo dieters, the fruits and veggies you are eating aren't authentic anymore anyway so hahaha on you. You think you're eating healthy but... Wait, then she talks about the goodness of whole seasonal foods, fiber, and diversity...like some grass-fed meat and loads of different kinds of...um...fruits and vegetables?

 

I vote not debunked.

[Greta]

I haven't read Paleofantasy, but here is one response to it: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/is-it-all-just-a-paleofantasy/#axzz2VSlA7fAK

 

 

[rainbird2]

I vote not debunked.

 

I vote not debunked, either.

 

Coming from 13 years of vegetarian eating, a good year at a vegan diet, attending the second largest macrobiotic cooking school in the nation, then attempting a Nourishing Traditions diet for a few years, then coming to Paleo (with lots of carbohydrates!!) for the last 5 years, I can say that it's all about your body. Do what works for you. There is no doubt that you will be healthier if you eat whole foods, whether that is a whole foods vegan diet or whole foods Paleo diet...you're going to be healthier eating whole foods. I wish the two camps would stop fighting and just focus on getting people to eat whole foods.

 

But I must say that I feel like I can fly after eating my breakfast of rare steak and pastured eggs, sauteed spinach and onions, avocado, sauerkraut, big bowl of cherries and herbal tea for breakfast this morning!! Yummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I'm two weeks post partum and I'm eating like a horse to keep up with my nursing baby. And I'm already so skinny and sexy!! I love Paleo!!

[Murphy101]

Well they would have eaten something similiar to toast, pancake, tortilla daily if possible. That's why they were making grinding tools.

 

I didn't think she debunked anything either.

 

I have been doing whole30, and I gotta say - seeing is believing for me.

 

But I am not just eating meat either. Most of my plates are about 50/50 meat on one side and some veggies on the other. Which makes sense because I'm not an herbivore and I'm not a carnivore, I am an omnivore.

 

I was mostly fascinated that we not longer have bananas that can grow wild bc they no longer have seeds. And I must admit I'm not curious to bloom a head of broccoli in a vase on the dining table. And I've had some wild lettuces and she's right. Tastes awful. Hard, very bitter, and no particuliarly pleasant on the digestive system.

[Alte Veste Academy]

But I am not just eating meat either. Most of my plates are about 50/50 meat on one side and some veggies on the other. Which makes sense because I'm not an herbivore and I'm not a carnivore, I am an omnivore.

 

This is what I was thinking when she was talking about vitamin C and teeth. No one ever said we were carnivores.

[Greta]

No one ever said we were carnivores.

 

Exactly. But Warinner is saying that paleo claims that we are carnivores, because that's easier to argue against that what paleo is actually saying. Very unimpressive.

[Greta]

Incidentally, I don't actually eat paleo, I follow a diet called "nutritional ketosis". But I do think that if you're going to give a talk arguing against *anything* and if you want your ideas to be respected, you probably shouldn't rely on strawman arguments, much less open with them.

[Jean in Newcastle]

What I've seen is this article: http://hells-ditch.com/2012/08/archaeologists-officially-declare-collective-sigh-over-paleo-diet/ Archeologists are objecting to the branding of the diet as "paleo" but don't have a problem with the diet as such.

 

I eat mostly paleo due to blood sugar issues. But I'm not eating that way because I think that paleolithic man ate that way.

[mommymilkies]

I agree with Alte Veste. Personally, I'm a bigger fan of Primal because I believe moderation is key, but I don't see any of that as debunking Paleo. Paleo does not equal a carnivorous diet, first of all. I think diet is very personal. There is no perfect diet for everyone.

[Alte Veste Academy]

What I've seen is this article: http://hells-ditch.com/2012/08/archaeologists-officially-declare-collective-sigh-over-paleo-diet/ Archeologists are objecting to the branding of the diet as "paleo" but don't have a problem with the diet as such.

 

I eat mostly paleo due to blood sugar issues. But I'm not eating that way because I think that paleolithic man ate that way.

 

Interesting article. It pretty much echoed the talk.

 

I don't know. I just don't see paleo books talking about how we should literally eat exactly like paleo people did. They're not idiots. They know it's impossible. I do too. But frankly, I will take my chances with broccoli flowers and kale over wheat. Yes, wheat may have been around longer than broccoli, but not the wheat they're selling today, which has...what was it again? 50 times the amount of gluten as the ancient grain? Yes, they've been changing fruits and veggies. But they've been changing grains too, in ways that are damaging us significantly more than broccoli or kale are going to do. So, fine, maybe it's the same thing but to extraordinarily different degrees. At any rate, the implied hahaha on the paleo-fools is based in ignorance about what "paleo" eating is all about. They are experts on paleolithic people and diet, fine. The paleo movement has simply used a term that easily describes the most basic intended goal of the diet.

 

Her takeaway (basically eat what you want but leave the caveman out of it?) and that joke about making a statue of a paleo guy eating a baguette strike me as dismissive and egotistical, really. Yes, from an evolutionary standpoint it is reproduction that counts. Eating paleo is about health. No one is arguing otherwise though. Happily, we have evolved to the point where we don't have to worry about living long enough to reproduce and can focus on health and happiness. Yay! It doesn't make us fools who don't understand how evolution works.

 

It seems to me that they are creating this argument because they are offended as intellectuals. LOL

[Alte Veste Academy]

I agree with Alte Veste. Personally, I'm a bigger fan of Primal because I believe moderation is key, but I don't see any of that as debunking Paleo. Paleo does not equal a carnivorous diet, first of all. I think diet is very personal. There is no perfect diet for everyone.

 

See, and I get them all mixed up. I think primal lets you have cream and stuff, right? I would kill to keep cream. Darn allergies went away when I stopped eating dairy. I've never had such a bittersweet moment. :tongue_smilie:

[Jane in NC]

I think a point is being missed by some who are critical of the talk. My son, an archaeology major, has commented to me before that archaeologists/anthropologists feel the popular media suggests that all Paleo people had a similar diet, hence one that can be translated to the modern consumer. As Dr. Warriner said, there was no one Paleo diet, rather a variety of Paleo diets. For example, my European Paleo ancestors ate a diet that is quite different than the Paleo peoples who resided in the area where I now live. Each geography would have its variations including those things that she mentioned like seeds and legumes. She is not disputing that eating non-processed foods is a good idea. What she is saying, at least my interpretation, is that one cannot call modern agricultural products "Paleo" because they are not.

[mommymilkies]

See, and I get them all mixed up. I think primal lets you have cream and stuff, right? I would kill to keep cream. Darn allergies went away when I stopped eating dairy. I've never had such a bittersweet moment. :tongue_smilie:

 

Me, too. :( It makes me swell up like the Stay Puffed Man. Primal is more of an 80/20 idea. Which really appeals to me, because unnecessarily OFF LIMITS foods really hits a nerve for me. I avoid things I have negative reactions to-like hives, swelling, etc. But Primal considers things like rice, butter, etc. as ok once in awhile for *most* people, if you don't react to them.

 

FWIW, I don't know anyone who eats Paleo who considers most agricultural things "Paleo", if by agricultural you mean corn, rice, etc. that fueled the agricultural revolution. However, with our present society, you would starve to death before you ate an entirely hunter/gatherer diet. We have changed the landscape so badly, that it's pretty much impossible. Most Paleo people I know, again, research the reaction on the body by many grains and all processed foods before eating them. Saying the media doesn't understand Paleo is pretty obvious. They don't even understand food allergies, HFCS, or the difference between it's and its most of the time.

 

Forgive typos and rambling. My brain is about to implode from overthinking a paper I'm writing for a class. You know, what I'm supposed to be doing instead of being on here. ;)

[Greta]

What she is saying, at least my interpretation, is that one cannot call modern agricultural products "Paleo" because they are not.

 

Could you expound on this? I don't really understand, but I didn't watch the whole talk. Is she saying that because we cannot, in the modern world, follow a diet that is PERFECTLY paleo, then we have nothing at all to learn from Paleolithic diets, and/or we might as well just not try to eat a little more like or ancestors did?

[Alte Veste Academy]

I think a point is being missed by some who are critical of the talk. My son, an archaeology major, has commented to me before that archaeologists/anthropologists feel the popular media suggests that all Paleo people had a similar diet, hence one that can be translated to the modern consumer. As Dr. Warriner said, there was no one Paleo diet, rather a variety of Paleo diets. For example, my European Paleo ancestors ate a diet that is quite different than the Paleo peoples who resided in the area where I now live. Each geography would have its variations including those things that she mentioned like seeds and legumes. She is not disputing that eating non-processed foods is a good idea. What she is saying, at least my interpretation, is that one cannot call modern agricultural products "Paleo" because they are not.

 

Right. I guess she's just trying to debunk the use of the term. But in doing so, she seems to lack understanding that no one selling the idea of paleo is literally telling people to eat as paleo people did (understanding that different groups ate in vastly different ways; I know this has also been addressed in some of the paleo books).

 

Really, the paleo folks just co opted the word. I think it's no big deal, but obviously the archaeologists feel that they have a bone to pick here. :tongue_smilie:

 

Wasn't it the Weston Price fellow who went out and studied native diets, essentially determining that myriad diets can keep people healthy. I did get that from her talk. I think I would have gotten a lot more from the talk if I had not been so focused on defending the position of modern paleo dieters. :lol:

[Murphy101]

Could you expound on this? I don't really understand, but I didn't watch the whole talk. Is she saying that because we cannot, in the modern world, follow a diet that is PERFECTLY paleo, then we have nothing at all to learn from Paleolithic diets, and/or we might as well just not try to eat a little more like or ancestors did?

 

That's somewhat how it came across to me too.

 

I don't think anyone thinks we should go back to only eating what we can forage in the wild. Well I'm sure there are some who think that, but it's certainly not the prevailing thought in any diet plan I'd listen to. (Maybe they are the same crowd who do prancercise? ;) )

 

The gist of them all is simple:

 

Eat less processed foods, sugars, and simple carbs.

 

Eat more healthy meats and veggies and some fruit and try to eat them in as a whole/healthy a manner as possible.

 

That's pretty much how everyone ate until roughly 50-80 years ago. I think paleo and primal are just cat by terms trope men in, bc she was right about that - there aren't many diets out their that men would ever consider. They do tend to be geared to women. Which is a shame bc being obese or having digestive issues isn't healthy for men either

 

 

 

 

 

[Jane in NC]

Could you expound on this? I don't really understand, but I didn't watch the whole talk. Is she saying that because we cannot, in the modern world, follow a diet that is PERFECTLY paleo, then we have nothing at all to learn from Paleolithic diets, and/or we might as well just not try to eat a little more like or ancestors did?

Clearly she wants to learn about what Paleo people ate since she is analyzing dental calculus. But just because we know what someone ate, does it imply that we should emulate it?

 

Frankly my ancestors would not have seen an avocado. They would most likely have seen barley. I see both of these food items as good things in the larger nutritional picture.

 

My son points out that many ancient peoples lived a life of feast or famine. I don't want to limit my fruit consumption to a window determined by weather, but I'll admit that I am probably more of a locavore than most people I know. (There are both nutritional and economic decisions at work here.) Thus I freeze and dehydrate my local fruits. Last night we ate fish that my neighbor caught in local waters with salad greens from a local farm and homemade carrot/miso dressing (local carrot). This morning I made muffins with loquats that I foraged. I love my local food. But I will not pretend that the Native Americans who passed through my area thousands of years ago ate these produce items. There is archaeological evidence of Native Americans coming to coast to collect oysters. That is one activity worth emulating!

[Joanne]

Exactly. But Warinner is saying that paleo claims that we are carnivores, because that's easier to argue against that what paleo is actually saying. Very unimpressive.

 

Exactly. It's the dieatary equivalent to Rosemond (John, parenting author) who rallies against attachment parenting and positive discipline but the support of his diatribes are against an ap/pp that is NOT ap/pp. He either deliberately misrepresent the paradigms or doesn't really know them.

 

Same with this "debunking" author. When I read the title, I immediately thought how can you debunk fresh fruit, veggies, and quality protein??

[stripe]

I found Nassim Nicholas Taleb's discussion in Antifragile interesting. The author is totally not a nutritionist, mind you. He talks about the importance of having fiber with your carbs, and alternating feasting and fasting, which create dietary chaos, which he believes is generally a good thing. He is a Lebanese-American Orthodox Christian (I mention this because of the fasting/feasting aspect). He says he won't drink anything that wasn't around 1000 years ago. So he avoids sodas and juices but drinks water, wine, and coffee, and that's about it. Anyway it was an interesting read. You can get an overview at

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/nov/24/nassim-taleb-antifragile-finance-interview

[Jane in NC]

Exactly. It's the dieatary equivalent to Rosemond (John, parenting author) who rallies against attachment parenting and positive discipline but the support of his diatribes are against an ap/pp that is NOT ap/pp. He either deliberately misrepresent the paradigms or doesn't really know them.

 

Same with this "debunking" author. When I read the title, I immediately thought how can you debunk fresh fruit, veggies, and quality protein??

Most paleo peoples did not have regular access to fresh fruit and veg. Feast or famine is not the basis of a good diet.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Clearly she wants to learn about what Paleo people ate since she is analyzing dental calculus.

 

...

 

But I will not pretend that the Native Americans who passed through my area thousands of years ago ate these produce items.

 

Her message contains good information, but her title and premise were no good, probably because she didn't take time to understand what the modern paleo movement is essentially about. It isn't about the archaeological definition of a paleolithic person. More people would have heard it if she wasn't essentially arguing against the use of a term, because no one is pretending that the modern produce found at the supermarket or even farmer's market is exactly the same as foraging through a single geographical environment from thousands of years in the past.

 

When I read the title, I immediately thought how can you debunk fresh fruit, veggies, and quality protein??

 

I know, right? When she started talking about the benefits of eating organs/marrow of healthy animals and the importance of fiber, I was ???. What are you arguing about here, lady? The term, really.

[Jane in NC]

I found Nassim Nicholas Taleb's discussion in Antifragile interesting. The author is totally not a nutritionist, mind you. He talks about the importance of having fiber with your carbs, and alternating feasting and fasting, which create dietary chaos, which he believes is generally a good thing. He is a Lebanese-American Orthodox Christian (I mention this because of the fasting/feasting aspect). He says he won't drink anything that wasn't around 1000 years ago. So he avoids sodas and juices but drinks water, wine, and coffee, and that's about it. Anyway it was an interesting read. You can get an overview at

http://www.guardian....nance-interview

Paleo except tiramisu? And coffee...

[Jane in NC]

Her message contains good information, but her title and premise were no good, probably because she didn't take time to understand what the modern paleo movement is essentially about. It isn't about the archaeological definition of a paleolithic person. More people would have heard it if she wasn't essentially arguing against the use of a term, because no one is pretending that the modern produce found at the supermarket or even farmer's market is exactly the same as foraging through the various geographical environments from thousands of years in the past.

 

I know, right? When she started talking about the benefits of eating organs/marrow of healthy animals and the importance of fiber, I was ???. What are you arguing about here, lady? The term, really.

Valid point but I think that part of the problem may be that academics have one meaning for Paleolithic that seems to have been co-opted by people who have rewritten the script--at least in the popular media. My son cringes when he hears the misuse of the word paleo in connection with the modern diet fad.

[Caroline]

 

Valid point but I think that part of the problem may be that academics have one meaning for Paleolithic that seems to have been co-opted by people who have rewritten the script--at least in the popular media. My son cringes when he hears the misuse of the word paleo in connection with the modern diet fad.

 

I am glad I am not the only one...

[Greta]

Jane, thanks for your reply! I certainly don't think that we could nor that we necessarily should attempt to precisely eat what Paleolithic people ate, simply because they ate it. But having read two books about the paleo diet, I also don't think that's what the advocates of it are saying.

[Murphy101]

Interesting. I think I like him. But I went off the wagon for tiramisu bc it's my favorite dessert of all time. And I was doubled over in agony for the rest of the night and part of the next morning. :.(

 

I found Nassim Nicholas Taleb's discussion in Antifragile interesting. The author is totally not a nutritionist, mind you. He talks about the importance of having fiber with your carbs, and alternating feasting and fasting, which create dietary chaos, which he believes is generally a good thing. He is a Lebanese-American Orthodox Christian (I mention this because of the fasting/feasting aspect). He says he won't drink anything that wasn't around 1000 years ago. So he avoids sodas and juices but drinks water, wine, and coffee, and that's about it. Anyway it was an interesting read. You can get an overview at

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/nov/24/nassim-taleb-antifragile-finance-interview

[MIch elle]

The point is that the "Paleo DIet" is NOT paleo! That's what she's debunking. She is not making any claims as to whether today's "Paleo diet" is good or bad. It's a marketing term that doesn't fit as shown in her and other's research with paleolithic remains around the globe.

 

Her 3 main lessons from paleolithic diets: diet diversity, fresh foods, whole foods.

[Murphy101]

The point is that the "Paleo DIet" is NOT paleo! That's what she's debunking. She is not making any claims as to whether today's "Paleo diet" is good or bad. It's a marketing term that doesn't fit as shown in her and other's research with paleolithic remains around the globe.

 

Her 3 main lessons from paleolithic diets: diet diversity, fresh foods, whole foods.

 

No. Her point is that what SHE is saying is a "paleo diet" is not.

Problem is what she is claiming is a "paleo diet" is not what the paleo diet books she references actually are.

 

Most of the paleo diets ARE diet diversity, fresh foods, and whole foods.

[Alte Veste Academy]

The point is that the "Paleo DIet" is NOT paleo! That's what she's debunking. She is not making any claims as to whether today's "Paleo diet" is good or bad. It's a marketing term that doesn't fit as shown in her and other's research with paleolithic remains around the globe.

Her 3 main lessons from paleolithic diets: diet diversity, fresh foods, whole foods.

 

She is making an intellectual argument against a claim that was never made. She assumes that since the word "paleo" is used, those who follow a paleo diet must be ignorant about what paleolithic people actually ate and/or about the changes to meat and produce in the modern food system. Nope. It's just a convenient word to succinctly express the concept of eating typical hunter-gatherer, non-processed foods (meat and fruits/veg). Yes, grains are verboten because most are extremely processed these days. And I'm gonna quote myself now, because the following is probably the punniest I've ever been. :lol:

 

Really, the paleo folks just co opted the word. I think it's no big deal, but obviously the archaeologists feel that they have a bone to pick here. :tongue_smilie:

[LucyStoner]

I have nothing against paleo (I am totally pro-meat and meh to anti dairy anyways!) but I personally reject any diet that tells me I can't eat legumes.

 

I love me some legumes.

 

I'm on the Katie Diet: Lots of fish, legumes, veggies, eggs, fruits, nuts, a fair bit of meat (but not daily) and moderate amounts of whole grains with very limited sugar and white flour, mostly dairy free + birthday cake and anniversary decadence when the occasion calls for it. And alcohol whenever I feel like it (not too often). Pesto, curry and Ethiopian food as often as I can work it into the menu.

 

I think everyone needs to be on their own YourFirstName Diet. What works for people is highly variable. With soy in my diet, I am a hot mess. Without meat for more than 7-10 days and I am all but non-functional. Other people do great on vegetarian and vegan fare. You gotta listen to your own body. Nobody has written a book that works for one and all.

[Joyofsixreboot]

Also this from an evolutionary biologist:

 

Paleofantasy

 

Here's the author on Quirks & Quarks:

http://www.cbc.ca/pl...sort=MostRecent

Just read that book. Very interesting stuff.I'm in the middle of a whole 30 but meh, it's not hard, it's not easy it's just about what I already ate minus jam and toast. Any diet is what you make it. I rail against people taking ay diet as a religion.

[Jane in NC]

No. Her point is that what SHE is saying is a "paleo diet" is not.

Problem is what she is claiming is a "paleo diet" is not what the paleo diet books she references actually are.

 

Most of the paleo diets ARE diet diversity, fresh foods, and whole foods.

Your post confuses me. As an archaeologist, she is discussing paleolithic diets as understood by modern academics. What diet books call "paleo diets" are not the same as the diets of ancient peoples.

 

While modern so called "paleo" diets may embrace diversity, fresh foods and whole foods, these are not the foods that our ancient ancestors ate. They are not what an archaeologist or anthropologist understood paleolithic man ate. That is what she is debunking. My paleolithic European ancestors did not eat coconut, for example. Perhaps coconut was part of a paleolithic diet for certain societies but there was no uniform paleolithic diet. That is her point.

[Onceuponatime]

She's obviously a specialist and a detail person. The details matter to her. I can relate.

 

That doesn't mean the big picture doesn't matter as well, but that is not the point. The title could have been more appropriate.

[nmoira]

Just read that book. Very interesting stuff.I'm in the middle of a whole 30 but meh, it's not hard, it's not easy it's just about what I already ate minus jam and toast. Any diet is what you make it. I rail against people taking ay diet as a religion.

 

Aside from potential health issues from red meat, my major problem with diets tilted towards relatively high amounts animal proteins is environmental: It's simply not sustainable on a wide scale and the energy inputs are huge. I'm talking on a more personal level now, but I read about some of the things some people purporting to eat paleo are consuming, and I shudder at the thought of the disparity between a culture in which people can consume foods with insanely high (remember, *my* perception :D ) per calorie energy and resource inputs/costs (water, fuel, feed, pollution etc.) and subsistence economies around the world.

 

Since I'm not a vegan and I don't grow/raise all my own food, I realize there's necessarily a degree of hypocrisy in my position -- but some of it just seems so extreme. Perhaps more in the practice of some than in theory, I don't know.

[Greta]

What diet books call "paleo diets" are not the same as the diets of ancient peoples.

 

The problem is that the books which she showed (at least the two of them that I have read) are NOT claiming that the diets contained within are the same as the diets of ancient peoples. What they are claiming is that by looking at those ancient diets, and looking at modern diets and modern health problems, we can come up with a diet that is healthier than the food pyramid or the typical modern diet because it is closer to what our ancestors ate - not identical, but closer.

 

She even said in her talk "...so can we take lessons from these Paleolithic diets that we can still apply to our lives today? And the answer is yes." Well, that is exactly what those books are doing!

 

 

[nmoira]

Your post confuses me. As an archaeologist, she is discussing paleolithic diets as understood by modern academics. What diet books call "paleo diets" are not the same as the diets of ancient peoples.

 

While modern so called "paleo" diets may embrace diversity, fresh foods and whole foods, these are not the foods that our ancient ancestors ate. They are not what an archaeologist or anthropologist understood paleolithic man ate. That is what she is debunking. My paleolithic European ancestors did not eat coconut, for example. Perhaps coconut was part of a paleolithic diet for certain societies but there was no uniform paleolithic diet. That is her point.

 

And this is absolutely relevant, as one of the points of those pushing the different variants of the diet is that it is closer to what we "should" be eating because it mirrors how our ancestors ate, which was a diet we supposedly evolved to eat.

 

It reminds me a bit of the macrobiotic craze. We were all supposed to eat hyper local (relative to what our nearish ancestors would have eaten), but yet ume and miso were seemingly for everyone.

[stripe]

My paleolithic European ancestors did not eat coconut, for example. Perhaps coconut was part of a paleolithic diet for certain societies but there was no uniform paleolithic diet. That is her point.

Yeah, exactly. I have a relative whose diet, I have decided, most closely resembles a Pacific Northwest bear: mostly salmon and berries.

[nmoira]

Yeah, exactly. I have a relative whose diet, I have decided, most closely resembles a Pacific Northwest bear: mostly salmon and berries.

 

Bear will preferentially eat only brains, given a glut of salmon. :tongue_smilie:

 

DH and I used to joke that all one had to do to make a dish "NW" was to throw a few blueberries on it.

[Greta]

It's simply not sustainable on a wide scale and the energy inputs are huge.

 

I don't disagree with you, but the same is true of the way wheat, corn, and soy are grown.

 

The problem, in my opinion, is less about the meat (or the crop) itself and more about the methods being used to produce it. Though obviously even with the best methods, there are going to be limits.

[MIch elle]

What I've seen is this article: http://hells-ditch.c...ver-paleo-diet/ Archeologists are objecting to the branding of the diet as "paleo" but don't have a problem with the diet as such.

 

I eat mostly paleo due to blood sugar issues. But I'm not eating that way because I think that paleolithic man ate that way.

 

 

That last line summed it up, “Look, the diet itself is sound; it’s the philosophy that’s bullshit. Eat what you want. Just leave the damn cavemen out of it.â€

[stripe]

How come no one wants to live like a caveman? And why not go all the way and cook with fire or eat raw, ripping flesh off of bone? I am getting tired of "paleo" desserts like pies and whipped cream. It just seems too delicate, all this fork usage.

[Lady Florida.]

I'm a meatatarian. :drool5:

 

I'm a dedicated omnivore. :D

 

Frankly, I think any diet whose name begins with a capital letter, exists to make someone money.

[butterflymommy]

I also have issues with it being called "paleo." Indigenous people still living at a stone age level of technology (like uncontacted amazonian tribes and papua new guinea tribes) all eat fruit, and starches often in the form of ground flours (though not wheat). Tribes in papua new guinea scrape starch out of tree trunks and boil it into what looks like dumplings. They do eat meat but animals are always shared by as many people as possible so the servings vary greatly in size day to day. They also eat live termites and grubs.

 

But it's just the name that bothers me, not the diet itself.

[Jean in Newcastle]

If you look at the websites of many of the popular paleo diets they will refer to eating like paleolithic man. They are rather general in how they describe this though.

 

http://www.thestoneagediet.net/ The Stone-Age diet (the first one that came out, apparently) says, "The Stone Age Diet, also known as the Paleo Diet, consists of foods that can be hunted and fished, such as meat and seafood, and can be gathered, such as eggs, insects, fruit, nuts, seeds, vegetables, mushrooms, herbs and spices. Food groups that were not consumed by humans before the agricultural revolution are excluded from the diet, mainly grains, legumes such as beans and peanuts, dairy products, salt, refined sugar and processed oils."

 

More current diets like the actual Paleo Diet say that it "is based upon everyday, modern foods that mimic the food groups of our pre-agricultural, hunter-gatherer ancestors. The following seven fundamental characteristics of hunter-gatherer diets will help to optimize your health, minimize your risk of chronic disease, and lose weight." (bolding mine).

[unsinkable]

I thought she should have worn lighter colored stockings.

[Caroline]

I thought she should have worn lighter colored stockings.

 

 

LOL

[Dicentra]

Here's the author on Quirks & Quarks:

http://www.cbc.ca/pl...sort=MostRecent

 

 

You linked Quirks & Quarks!!

I :001_wub: you.

 

:D