Combining subjects when kids are 4 grades apart?

[athena1277]

Next year my dc will be in 5th and 1st grades. I would like to combine them for science and history, but I'm not sure how. We are following the 4 year history/science cycle. Dd is ready for the 2nd cycle while ds will be starting the 1st cycle. So topic-wise, they are spaced just right for combining. I have all 4 years of SOTW and the God's Design (AiG) science series.

 

I don't want dd to do the exact same things she did in 1st. The science has 2 sections in each lesson, one for older and one for younger. That puts them on the same topic and same experiment, but not reading together. SOTW would have them reading together, but what would dd do differently from the first time to learn with a little more depth?

 

I just don't know how this can/should work, but I know so many families do. What am I not getting?

[AimeeM]

I would be hesitant to combine them with that age gap. Within the next year or two, the older will definitely need other materials (than an elementary science and elementary level history - I don't think SWB meant for her SOTW series to be middle school history, kwim?).

Is there anyway your fifth grader could do a largely independent history (say, from Memoria Press)?

 

That's just me. It isn't something I would be comfortable with, but I do know others make it work. Good luck!

[*Lulu*]

I have the same age span, and I combine.

 

We are going through our cycle again next year (we do not follow a 4 year) and my plan is to do many of the activites we did before, some new activities, and to add a layer of depth for Punk. This deepening of the content will be accomplished by adding reading and writing assignments and maybe a few science experiments that are just for him.

 

As for repeating material, Punk is exited to redo some of his favorite activities from last time and already re-listens to our SOTW audios for fun.

[Kfamily]

Hmmm, well I don't know what books your 5th grader read in the first cycle, but you're welcome to look at this guide that I made for combining children. Your 5th grader would read the spine for himself and while I have The Story of the Greek People and The Story of the Roman People listed as read-alouds you could certainly have your dd read these independently as well. I liked these books because each chaper is followed with a couple of quite composition ideas. These are very similar to what I would write myself for narrations.

 

Here it is:

http://amindinthelight.blogspot.jp/p/time-period-ancients_8.html

[2_girls_mommy]

WTM lays out what to do for logic stage ancients pretty simply. My 5th grader did all 4 yrs of SOTW and now is back in the ancients. SOTW isn't her guide anymore for history, but it is for my 3rd grader in the grammar stage. I would do it the same if my ydd was a 1st grader instead of a 3rd grader. So we are all in the ancients, but I do SOTW w/ydd, but odd uses the KHE. Sometimes she listens in to our SOTW reading, but then dd10 does her actual work using the KHE, a geography coloring, a timeline book, and then the library to research a topic and to write a weekly summary. I take a narration from dd8 and do the discussion questions and mapwork from SOTW. We all watch history videos together and do the occasional project together. Then odd reads literature from CHOLL for further reading in the time periods and cultures of the ancients, while ydd and I read picture book and easy chapter books from the SOTW A.G. together. DD10 can do most of her written work on her own. So we spend 15 min. or so reading aloud, then she goes off to do her work (or does it right next to us) while dd8 and I do her work together. The lit reading happens in their reading time on their own or at bedtime.

[*Lulu*]

Another thing I do that is extremely popular here is the question of the week. Every week I post a question related to a topic we are studying (usually science) that will require some research on thier part. (Everyone helps Bug.) Once someone finds the answer they come and tell me and claim thier prize. Everyone gets a prize after finding the answer; it does not matter if they are first or last.

 

I plan to continue this for next year, but start posting a 5th grade question and an easier question for the younger two. I am still playing with the wording as not to insult the younger students by calling thier question "easy".

[Lilaclady]

I did combine my kids last yr but what I found was it was taking so long with the writing. My first grader actually did better than I expected and towards the end of the yr it was better. I will combine them again his yr. my fifth grader will read more books and the history encyclopedia but they like doing the activities together and it is just more fun.

[coffeegal]

Do you have the SOTW activity guide? There are pages assigned for Kingfisher's History Encyclopedia. You could do SOTW with both, but have your 5th grader read or outline from Kingfisher and write short reports instead of narrations. :001_smile:

[happypamama]

I have a three year gap between my older two (and will have four between my second and third), and I combine a lot. This past year, for instance, we did SOTW1, which was just right for my second grader. So I added harder/longer/more in-depth books for my fifth grader to read on her own (using Kingfisher or something like that seems like a good plan too) and picture books to emphasize things and to include our preKer more. I would just have your older child do some more in-depth reports or projects.

[mom31257]

If your older child likes SOTW, you could definitely use them together. You could even have the older read aloud to the younger. I would have the older child reading historical fiction and begin outlining something like Kingfisher in addition to your group time with SOTW. I love the question of the week idea! My kids are 6 grades apart, and it's been so difficult to find much we can do together. Some of that has been the immaturity of the younger one, but I see things improving between them as he is getting older. They are both studying American history next year, so I'm hoping to watch some movies together, go on some field trips together, etc.

[Crimson Wife]

My kids are 3 years but 4 grades apart (DS did "transition" between K & 1). I have them both studying the same topics in history & science but using different resources. So far I've been following the sequence in DD's "spine" and rearranging the topics in DS' "spine" to match. Next year, DD will be doing Ancient History using K12 Human Odyssey Vol. 1 and DS will be using SOTW 1 and part of 2.

[maryanne]

My kids are 3 years but 4 grades apart (DS did "transition" between K & 1). I have them both studying the same topics in history & science but using different resources. So far I've been following the sequence in DD's "spine" and rearranging the topics in DS' "spine" to match. Next year, DD will be doing Ancient History using K12 Human Odyssey Vol. 1 and DS will be using SOTW 1 and part of 2.

 

Mine are a similar age span 3 years, but about 4 grades apart. I also did not really combine, but we studied the same topic using different age appropriate resources. We often did the same or similar projects and experiments though. God's Design Science works well for teaching on 2 or 3 levels. Younger dd used SotW with very few added resources, while older ds listened to SotW in the car but used on-level resources on similar topics at home. Tapestry of Grace also works well for multilevel teaching. At about 7th grade ds became so much more independent that combining anything at all was no longer necessary or practical.

[Holly]

We use SCM's history and I love the set up. We have a family reading, then the different grades are split up for extra readings (grades 1-3, 4-6, 7-9, 10-12). Some days we just have an assigned family reading. Any projects are done together. I usually read the 1-3 books aloud to all and my younger two play while I read the 4-6 books to my 3rd and 5th graders.

[klmama]

You could read aloud from SOTW during meals, so the little one would get her history then, and it would be a review time for the older one. (Tell her it's for the little one, don't tell her it's to help her review!) Then, while the little one does things from the SOTW activity guide, the older could do some other reading, outlining, or written assignments related to the topics.

[kristinannie]

I would look at TOG or RC Connecting with History to see how they use similar topics, but different books for both kids. This way, you can still discuss the same subjects, but each child can be reading at their own level. You could have a family read aloud and then your older child could supplement with her own readings as well. Or you could even have your older child could help "teach" the younger child. It will be great review for the older child as well!

[EKS]

I wouldn't combine them as each will have very different needs. However you *can* make sure they're studying the same topics at the same time, which actually does help somewhat.

[redsquirrel]

I have the same situation. I have a 7th grader and a second grader. Honestly, I don't combine them. They are at very different places. However, they are doing the same subjects. So, both had a chemistry year, for example. My second grader will sometimes watch any educational videos I assign to me 7th grader, but mostly he wanders off.

 

The good thing is that, for the most part, my 7th grader is very independent. That leaves me plenty of time for hands on with my second grader

[mom2scouts]

I will also have a 1st and 5th grader next year. I've tried combining for some subjects and it usually doesn't go well. The only subject we've successfully combined has been art. We use Atelier and the projects at each level allow for that age span. I decided to just choose the appropriate curriculum for each of them and do it separately.

[Laura Corin]

I have a four grade gap. I didn't combine much. I tried for history and French - always one of them was rushed, or the other was bored. It worked for science at first, because the younger would play while we were doing the theory and just come in for the experiments. Hobbes' real science was science picture books and nature study.

 

Laura

[m0mmaBuck]

I combine my 1st and 5th grader for several subjects by adding work for the elder:

 

History: SOTW is our spine. Both kids listen while I read, answer the review questions, do the maps, and occasionally work together on an activity. Some readalouds are for both; often I have DS11 read to DD7. DD7 does the coloring pages and narrations or copywork. DS11 does a timeline, writes summaries, and does extra reading.

 

Science: This year we did the human body, botany, and zoology. Both would get the same introductory information and we would work together on experiments/projects but DS11 would have extra reading and reports while DD7 had more coloring and arts/crafts type projects.

 

Latin: Both reviewed SSL and then did GSWL.

 

Typing: Both used Dance Mat Typing. DS11 progressed to Typing Instructor.

 

Music: I used the same music theory program as well as composer studies and introduction to orchestra instruments.

 

Art: Same program, higher expectations of DS11.

[Incognito]

Another thing I do that is extremely popular here is the question of the week. Every week I post a question related to a topic we are studying (usually science) that will require some research on thier part. (Everyone helps Bug.) Once someone finds the answer they come and tell me and claim thier prize. Everyone gets a prize after finding the answer; it does not matter if they are first or last.

 

I plan to continue this for next year, but start posting a 5th grade question and an easier question for the younger two. I am still playing with the wording as not to insult the younger students by calling thier question "easy".

 

 

Would it work for you to have the 5th grade problem be something along the lines of a "super challenge question"? Then the regular question is not "easy," it is still regular. :)

[lewelma]

We combine our kids for history (7th and 3rd). My dh reads to the boys every night for an hour and discusses issues with them. Because this is the second pass through history for my older (we follow the WTM rotation), I have chosen topics that my older son knows nothing about. To increase the level for my older, he also reads classic literature that fits into our historical topics. This approach works for us because history is our fun and easy subject -- not really academic. I have posted my modern book list (that will be read to boys in 8th and 4th grade) on post 3 in this thread:

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/474422-teaching-what-really-happened-how-to-avoid-the-tyranny-of-textbooks-get-students-excited-about-doing-history/

and am happy to also post my older son's associated literature list if you would like to see it.

 

Ruth in NZ

[*Lulu*]

 

 

Would it work for you to have the 5th grade problem be something along the lines of a "super challenge question"? Then the regular question is not "easy," it is still regular. :)

 

 

 

Ooo, I like it!

[*Lulu*]

Just wondering aloud here, I wonder how many of us who are saying "combining content subjects is no problem" treat those areas in a more relaxed manner? I also wonder how many of those who say "combining is too difficult" use content subjects in a more cross-disiliplinary manner with skill subject work?

 

I know as I ask for more output from my eldest I am asking it during his skill subject time and not trying to have him do it during the time allotted for the content subject. I can see where eventually, (late middle school perhaps), it may not work to do it this way.

[Clear Creek]

I couldn't combine my students with that much age difference. The narration/discussion with my younger student would make my older student literally fall out of her chair with boredom, and the discussion with my older student would be way, way too far over my younger student's head and he would crawl off under the table to find something more interesting to occupy his attention. But that is just my house, YMMV. :)

[SilverMoon]

I wouldn't combine them, but I would keep them in the same history period. They should each have books and materials for their own personal level. If they're in the same period your research will be easier, and movies, fieldtrips, read alouds, and fun projects like mummifying a chicken will be applicable for both DC, even if their history stories don't line up exactly.