Question about Boston bombers

[LNC]

Did anyone hear or read why they were at MIT or Watertown? They lived in Cambridge, right? Did they go to MIT campus for a reason? What was the Watertown connection? Did he go to Watertown on purpose or just end up there after the chase?

[LMA]

The timeline of incidents will be clearer over the next few days. However, MIT is in Cambridge. They were on the run Thursday night and Watertown is the next town over. I don't think there is any deliberate connection between these places and the suspects.

[LNC]

Ok, I knew MIT was in Cambridge, but didn't know if a connection was reported to the campus. I hoped they just ended up in Watertown. My dad's hometown, family there...

[GoVanGogh]

Mind if I add to your question?

 

Did they not know (or care?) that the marathon is so highly photographed and recorded, not to mention all of the security cameras in that area?

[GoVanGogh]

Seems to me they didn't care. They weren't all that careful about not being found out. They didn't even leave the area. Either that or they really were that dumb.

Yeah. Guess that is my real question: Were they really that dumb/clueless or really didn't care all that much about being caught?

Either way, it is odd that they stayed in the area, especially when police were requesting everyone to turn in photos and video and said they expected hundreds, possibly thousands, of images of the suspects.

The marathon has always been well photographed - but in this day and age with everyone carrying around a smartphone with built-in camera and video recorder...

[PachiSusan]

Mind if I add to your question?

 

Did they not know (or care?) that the marathon is so highly photographed and recorded, not to mention all of the security cameras in that area?

 

Perhaps they planned on dying, so it wouldn't matter.

[Murmer]

Personal opinion....I think they wanted fame and infamy...they wanted to be identified because then the world would know who they are and what they did. They would have news articles written about them and the horrible things they did. Whether they had other reasons for what they did I don't know but I think they wanted to be identified and glorified (even if negatively) in the media.

[Shahrazad]

Perhaps they planned on dying, so it wouldn't matter.

 

I initially thought this was the explanation as well, however the younger did not appear to actually want to die....if he wanted, he had ample opportunity to kill himself or suicide by cop and instead he allowed them to take him alive. And it did appear as though his brother charged the police to give him a chance to gert away perhaps. So, now I have no idea if he thought he had a way to get away with it or if they planned that they would probably be killed by the authorities and in the end, he chose to be arrested alive because given the choice, he didn't want to die.

 

I think most of us are waiting to see some explanation of what the motive was, whether this was individual or part of some sort of group, and the details of how things happened. I do, however, wish the news outlets, while waiting for some of these explanations, would quit writing articles implying that pieces of the puzzle are starting to come together toward motivation and these pieces include: he used God in his speech, often (so do I and almost all Muslims because we have terms that we are supposed to use for certain things that translate to phrases like 'God Willing', 'Glory be to God', or 'God has willed it'), that he grew a beard once (plenty, if not most, muslims do at some point...my own male family members never shave or cut their beards and it is not a beacon of extremism..they are just following the Islamic dress code in the same way that I cover myself), that he thought 911 was a conspiracy (ok, yeah, I do think this is dumb but again, I don't think this is some sort of explanation or major light to his motives. I DO know a few people who think like this because of that Loose Change documentary but it doesn't make them think violently, in fact it is the opposite that they just think someone else was responsible because they don't want to believe that people would do something like that and think it was acceptable in Islam but even so, most people know that BL and AQ were murderers long before that date and were bad regardless. I'm not sure why you'd go around telling people that was a conspiracy to make Muslims look bad and that would cause you to....go out and commit an act to make Muslims look bad? I mean WTH?), he gave up drinking and smoking (though his twitter still refers to him as the king of beer pong), he prayed 5 times a day (bare minimum to be considered practicing Muslims)....I just hate when we still haven't been given any information for their motives and the news are busy speculating that these are the reasons when one has nothing to do with the other. These are not the things that would explain why someone would go out and decide to commit mass murder. These are not even the things that would explain influencing someone to go do such a thing.

 

DH works with some friends from Russia and people started out picking on them yesterday (jokingly). He told me that finally they got so upset with it they said that 'Chechens are different, they're not Russians, they are their own group and their Muslims. Thats the biggest difference between us (ie that they are Muslims)'. He said that even though he knew that the implication was that it was their religion that made the difference (and that the people are not representative of a faith or ethnicity/country), he didn't have the heart to say anything about that because he just felt so bad and sick that people that did this claimed our faith....he felt he didn't deserve to say a word in protest.

[Shahrazad]

Personal opinion....I think they wanted fame and infamy...they wanted to be identified because then the world would know who they are and what they did. They would have news articles written about them and the horrible things they did. Whether they had other reasons for what they did I don't know but I think they wanted to be identified and glorified (even if negatively) in the media.

 

I agree, this is the only thing I can come up with as well. If it was about chechnya, why wouldn't you just go and fight there or something? (eta: not that that would be right either!) What did America really have to do with it? If the grudge was against Russia, well, they aren't quite an ally to the US either so why wouldn't they target them? Because dying in obscurity fighting with the resistance is not what they were looking for, they wanted the infamy and, if they planned to be taken alive, the US is a kindlier institution that most other countries in that regard (nowhere in the Muslim world, for example, would you end up alive in custody after all of that, let alone be taken to a hospital for medical treatment and fed well).

[Mrs Mungo]

I don't think they were aware of all of the surveillance cameras. I don't think they wanted to get caught. I think this was a practice run for something bigger. I think they were probably naive about the resources available to law enforcement. Granted, it is all speculation/supposition, but that is my gut feeling.

[unsinkable]

I don't think they were aware of all of the surveillance cameras. I don't think they wanted to get caught. I think this was a practice run for something bigger. I think they were probably naive about the resources available to law enforcement. Granted, it is all speculation/supposition, but that is my gut feeling.

 

My DD feels something similar. She thinks it was a type of initiation or an opportunity to prove their willingness to kill.

[Koerarmoca]

I agree that it was likely practice. They where quite the sloppy little terrorists. I'm interested to know more about the why's of it all. For right now I'm just glad he is in custody. I do feel quite badly for the family of the brothers they feel they have brought shame to the family and I agree.

[I.Dup.]

They don't seem to be the brightest. They robbed a 7-11 within days of the event, really???? They were caught on a ton of cameras, it just doesn't make sense. If they really wanted to be martyrs for the faith they should have died in the explosions.

[Mrs Mungo]

They don't seem to be the brightest. They robbed a 7-11 within days of the event, really???? They were caught on a ton of cameras, it just doesn't make sense. If they really wanted to be martyrs for the faith they should have died in the explosions.

 

No, they didn't. Someone *else* robbed a 7-11. They happened to be in the 7-11 around the same time. Police recognized them on the security footage as they were going through looking for the robbery footage. It was an amazing coincidence.

[I.Dup.]

No, they didn't. Someone *else* robbed a 7-11. They happened to be in the 7-11 around the same time. Police recognized them on the security footage as they were going through looking for the robbery footage. It was an amazing coincidence.

 

 

Oh wow, I apologize. I did not know that. I have not been following everything very closely, last I heard the news was reporting it was them who robbed the 7-11.

[LibraryLover]

Tragic.

[unsinkable]

 

 

Oh wow, I apologize. I did not know that. I have not been following everything very closely, last I heard the news was reporting it was them who robbed the 7-11.

 

 

Yeah, you better apologize! Cuz you just falsely accused two innocent...

 

Oh, wait.

 

Never mind.

 

 

 

 

(This is a joke, BTW. )

[Mrs Mungo]

 

Just to clarify my own thoughts, I do not believe they were part of a larger organization. If they were, then they would have had more sophisticated equipment. I think their own plans were for something bigger. But again, I think they were naive and unsophisticated.

[Forget-Me-Not]

I don't think they were aware of all of the surveillance cameras. I don't think they wanted to get caught. I think this was a practice run for something bigger. I think they were probably naive about the resources available to law enforcement. Granted, it is all speculation/supposition, but that is my gut feeling.

 

 

My gut feeling too. Naive is exactly the word that I thought while I watched this play out in the news. That, and the family members crying that they were framed and that this was all lies. It shows a gross misunderstanding of our society and how things work here.

 

I also wonder if the younger brother didn't get sucked into this somewhat unwillingly or unwittingly. A LOT of his acquaintances are surprised and he didn't seem to raise the red flag that the older brother did.

[Roadrunner]

Not everything appears nice with the older brother as initial reports suggested. He was arrested on asault charges several years ago (case dropped aparently but that's enough to make it very difficult for him to have ever become a citizen). The uncle's family doesn't talk to kids (strange for a culture that revolves around the family) and his sister is also estranged (even stranger). I saw reports that his sister's friend claimed he beat his sister and that's why there is no communication. If those reports are correct, we are starting to see a man with some serious anger issues in the least. Who knows if they got himself involved in an organization. Nothing surprises me anymore.

[Roadrunner]

Anyone hear about the money the older brother had normally? He drove a Mercedes and had really expensive clothes. In the photo shoot he showed his Mercedes and it was new looking. Where did he get the money? All I've heard is that he was a boxer and engineering student.

 

 

I didn't know that. This information certainly raises the possiblity that it was a contract job.

[happymomofboys]

Did anyone hear or read why they were at MIT or Watertown? They lived in Cambridge, right? Did they go to MIT campus for a reason? What was the Watertown connection? Did he go to Watertown on purpose or just end up there after the chase?

 

I don't think it's known why there were at MIT. It has been speculated that they were setting bombs. Police were called due to a disturbance. They ambushed the officer who responded and killed him. They then carjacked a vehicle after stopping at a gas station. They drove that victim around for 30 minutes and told him they were the bombers. They then let him go. Police chase began and there was a shootout where another officer was wounded. Suspect #2 abandoned the vehicle and fled on foot in Watertown.

[happymomofboys]

 

Oh wow, I apologize. I did not know that. I have not been following everything very closely, last I heard the news was reporting it was them who robbed the 7-11.

 

That was a mistake that was reported repeatedly on various news outlets, so it's understandable.

[amsunshine]

Anyone hear about the money the older brother had normally? He drove a Mercedes and had really expensive clothes. In the photo shoot he showed his Mercedes and it was new looking. Where did he get the money? All I've heard is that he was a boxer and engineering student.

 

I think this is going to all get sorted out, but right now, I'm not sure it's clear who the Mercedes actually belonged to. I've heard it reported that it belonged to a girlfriend, and I've also heard the media reporting it belonged to one of the brothers. I also heard the brothers had access to a BMW, and also that they were both seen driving a Honda Civic. It's all very confusing, and I don't think we've gotten the true facts yet.

[LibraryLover]

I think this is going to all get sorted out, but right now, I'm not sure it's clear who the Mercedes actually belonged to. I've heard it reported that it belonged to a girlfriend, and I've also heard the media reporting it belonged to one of the brothers. I also heard the brothers had access to a BMW, and also that they were both seen driving a Honda Civic. It's all very confusing, and I don't think we've gotten the true facts yet.

 

 

 

You're right. It's hard to get one's head to stop reeling. I thought the Mercedes was stolen.

 

It's all horrendous and sad.

[LibraryLover]

Very very sad. All of it.

[LibraryLover]

Just to clarify my own thoughts, I do not believe they were part of a larger organization. If they were, then they would have had more sophisticated equipment. I think their own plans were for something bigger. But again, I think they were naive and unsophisticated.

 

 

 I can't think about this anymore. Going to log off and pull more weeds from the garden beds.

[happymomofboys]

The parents have said they think the suspects were framed, but I think it is likely that their fear of framing is based on past experiences in their homeland. Multiple relatives indicated they came here for asylum. The uncle however seems to believe that suspect #1 was mentored by someone (a recent convert to Islam from Armenian descent?) which led to him becoming more and more radicalized over several years. To my knowledge, nobody in the family has yet explained the private falling out between the different members of the family. The FBI has admitted they investigated suspect #1 a couple of years ago at the request of the Russian government because of possible ties to extremists in Chechnya, but apparently they didn't find anything warranting his arrest or deportation. I'm sure more will come out in the next days and weeks about what the government knew and didn't know, but I don't believe it is possible they were framed. It is very possible, however, that they were being recruited and that this was either an initiation (planned by someone else) or an attempt to prove himself on the part of suspect #1. With the evidence that has been released at this time, I think suspect #2 was likely influenced by his older brother and did not have the same devotion to ideology. As another poster said, I think he wasn't as prepared to give his life for the cause, whatever it might be.

[Word Nerd]

I think they were probably naive about the resources available to law enforcement. Granted, it is all speculation/supposition, but that is my gut feeling.

 

 

This was my thought. I was amazed by how quickly the FBI was able to ID the suspects and sort them out from the crowds of other people in all those photos and videos. How could they have predicted they would be found so easily? They probably also felt they were invincible.

[I.Dup.]

I think their dad is involved.

[Shahrazad]

I think their dad is involved.

 

 

Why? I haven't seen any evidence to suggest this?

[Dandelion]

I don't think they wanted to get caught. I do think it's possible that at least the older brother wanted to die. According to this article, "Tamerlan Tsarnaev, 26, was wearing explosives and a triggering device when he died, a source briefed on the investigation told CNN on condition of anonymity."

That might explain why the younger brother actually drove over his older brother with the stolen SUV as police were in the process of arresting the older brother (also according to the article linked above). My guess is that they had planned to set more bombs, but then things didn't go according to plan, so Dzhokar killed his brother knowing that he would not be able to detonate the explosives he was wearing.

As for motives, it sounds like the older brother was indeed becoming radicalized in the last three years. My impression of the younger brother based on what's been published so far is that he was just sucked into this by his older brother. I don't get the impression that he shared his brother's views to the same extent.

[LNC]

The parents have said they think the suspects were framed, but I think it is likely that their fear of framing is based on past experiences in their homeland. Multiple relatives indicated they came here for asylum. The uncle however seems to believe that suspect #1 was mentored by someone (a recent convert to Islam from Armenian descent?) which led to him becoming more and more radicalized over several years. To my knowledge, nobody in the family has yet explained the private falling out between the different members of the family. The FBI has admitted they investigated suspect #1 a couple of years ago at the request of the Russian government because of possible ties to extremists in Chechnya, but apparently they didn't find anything warranting his arrest or deportation. I'm sure more will come out in the next days and weeks about what the government knew and didn't know, but I don't believe it is possible they were framed. It is very possible, however, that they were being recruited and that this was either an initiation (planned by someone else) or an attempt to prove himself on the part of suspect #1. With the evidence that has been released at this time, I think suspect #2 was likely influenced by his older brother and did not have the same devotion to ideology. As another poster said, I think he wasn't as prepared to give his life for the cause, whatever it might be.

 

 

This sounds preposterous. An Armenian convert to Islam? (I am Armenian and grew up my entire life hearing family history about the genocide). Don't quote me, may delete that bc it is controversial to some.

[Shahrazad]

Not sure why that is impossible? Armenian converts to Islam do exist. Plenty of people have converted to Islam from ethnicities that have experienced conflict and oppression by other ethnic groups who are predominately Muslim. If you are exploring faith and looking at religious principles rather than the political actions of a group and the religious beliefs appeal to you and make sense to you, why not? As for being an extremist, it is not uncommon for reverts to get in with the wrong people and be radicalized because they can be a easy target since they are still in the early stages of learning about the religion.

[Roadrunner]

H

[happymomofboys]

Just to be clear, I didn't say Armenian, the uncle did.

[gardenmom5]

LNC - my dh's grandfather is armenian. He emmigrated in 1918. (that can't be right, it must have been earlier. he took seven years to after he left before he arrived.)

[LNC]

Just to be clear, I didn't say Armenian, the uncle did.

 

Yes, I knew that. Just quoted your post bc it was easier than typing that part out. :)

[happymomofboys]

Yes, I knew that. Just quoted your post bc it was easier than typing that part out. :)

 

 

Oh good, I didn't want anyone getting the wrong idea. :)

[Pawz4me]

(Okay, I'm speculating, which I really really hate, but here goes) --

 

As far as the Mercedes -- The reports are that the older brother has a 3-yo daughter. Whether he is or was ever married to the girl's mother or not is unclear. But the mother of his child is reportedly the daughter of an emergency room physician and a nurse who live in an affluent area. I would think it's possible the Mercedes he's been seen with could belong to them, or it could be that they gave it to their daughter. Just throwing out for fodder the idea that the car may be perfectly legit.

[Element]

I think their dad is involved.

 

This was my first thought too, since he is conveniently out of the country. However! it could have been that the kids specifically planned the events to take place while dad was out of the country, so that dad couldn't stop them if he discovered their intentions.

 

I hate speculation, but it's hard not to speculate when horrific things occur and we seek to know why. Thankfully, he was caught rather than killed so we may eventually get some answers. Maybe.

[Joker]

I haven't had the vibe that dad was involved, but I do find it interesting he moved back to Dagestan (sp?). That is supposedly where the older brother went for six months last year and was a reason the FBI was investigating him (they were asked to before he left for the region?). I really know nothing of the area other than what the media is reporting and it isn't too good.

[Element]

I haven't had the vibe that dad was involved, but I do find it interesting he moved back to Dagestan (sp?). That is supposedly where the older brother went for six months last year and was a reason the FBI was investigating him (they were asked to before he left for the region?). I really know nothing of the area other than what the media is reporting and it isn't too good.

 

Oh, see, I didn't even know he had moved back. This is why I shouldn't speculate!

[Joker]

 

Oh, see, I didn't even know he had moved back. This is why I shouldn't speculate!

 

What I've read says the dad moved back there to die, but miraculously was healed instead (quoted in an NBC article). It's all just odd and then I wonder if what I'm reading is even the truth.