Robotics "path" for a seven year old?

[mommymonster]

I am a bit out of my element on this one, and am hoping one of you wiser homeschooling parents can help me out. My DS7 would love, love, love to build robots. Unfortunately, I have no idea of even where to start. He eventually wants to make the battle robots, but understands that there is a long road between where he's at and cage fighting robots (note moderate maternal annoyance that this is what fascinates him, but at least he's decided to be interesting in something ). In any case, where do we start? Seven years old strikes me as at the young end of trying to do robotics, but he's motivated and can learn an amazing amount when actually motivated.

 

We do have a Snap Circuits set that we are working through. Are there kits for robotics as well? I've heard of Lego Robotics, but my son isn't a huge fan of Legos. What skills are used to make basic robots? What things should we focus on in our schooling to move him toward this goal? Math, of course, but what science? We were slated to do earth science next year, but we can supplement pretty easily, or even move things around. Are there any "robot kits" that we could start with to make things seem more exciting?

 

I have no clue what robotics is, really. If there is a book / website you could recommend, I'd sincerely appreciate it.

[Farrar]

Look at Lego Wedo.

 

ETA: You can also look at simple kids' programming stuff - for example, Scratch, which is free. And if you do all that, you can look at things like Arduino and Lego Mindstorms in the future.

[Kathryn]

:bigear:

[Farrar]

One more thing that is a light, fun project book - Robotics by Cathy Ceceri. Also, 4H has some cool units about robotics that aren't very expensive.

[Jilly]

When my son was that age he had a Lego Mindstorm which he loved. You don't really spend as much time building it as regular Legos, instead most of the time goes into programming it. It really is a wonderful educational tool for kids interested in robotics, so you might want to check it out.

 

My son also loved beginning robotic kits at that age. They start out simple, but my son still enjoyed them. His first robot was the solar grasshopper.

 

http://www.electronickits.com/robot/CK21670.htm

 

Also snap circuits makes a rover that is quite fun.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Elenco-Electronics-Circuits-Deluxe-Rover/dp/B0018OXZF4

[duckens]

I'm in the same place as you. I have not done this before. But this is what I have cobbled together so far as a pathway.

 

Older Dd is 6. My motivation is that most employers I know welcome those with computer and building skills, even if one is not specifically an engineer. I just want both daughters to have some familiarity with aspects of engineering.

 

Here's what we have so far for a pathway:

 

1) Lego WeDo sets. We haven't gotten far in these. I consider starting a "lego club" to ensure that we work on it every week. Look on the LegoEducation website.

 

We also have many regular Lego sets that dd6 has build.

 

2) Junior Lego League I have been looking unsuccessfully for a JLL group for dd6 to join. I may start one on my own, but information from Lego League is cryptic until you plop down the money for a club. Since I'm not sure that I can properly mentor a club, and no one else may join our team, it so far seems foolish to drop a few hundred dollars on a maybe. That's a lot of money for our family.

 

3) Snap Circuits We are working through our Snap Circuits kit. We trace the path of the current, name the elements, and dd reads the schematic. I need to make a set of review sheets for big concepts that have been presented so far. In theory, we would review the concepts every time we did a Snap Circuit lesson.

 

4) Engineering Camp at our local state college. (Check the Engineering Department. Do a Google search for "[your state or your state university] engineering camp." I am watching for when the dates are posted online for our state. Positions fill up fast!

 

5) Lego League Our current 4H group has an awesome Lego League team. The adviser is an engineer, and the team this year was small enough (3 kids) that each member fully participated and understood what was going on.

 

4H is a good outlet to find a Lego League team when your son reaches age 9. You are out very little to make a few inquiries.

 

Warning: I have another friend who tried to advise a Lego League team for her son and his friends. She had no background in programming or engineering, and she was too strict in not teaching the boys what she had learned so far..and made the boys try to learn everything from the ground up on their own. Her team fizzled out. If you choose to manage a team, be kind to yourself and give your team a year of learning before you have any great expectations.

 

6) These two books have been recommended for after Snap Circuits:

 

Getting Started in Electronics by Forrest Mims

Make Electronics (Learning by Discovery) by Charles Platt

 

7) Our homeschool coop has a team engineering challenge every year. It is the type of competition where each team is given a box of miscellaneous supplies, and they need to build a [insert goal here]. They have been requesting toilet paper tubes, paper, and glue guns (to borrow) in the last two newsletters. When dd is older, participating in an activity like this will give her practice with problem solving and building.

 

ETA: The name of this challenge is "Junk Box Wars."

 

8) Skill in woodworking and, possibly, metal working (Industrial Arts or Shop). This was recommended by another friend of mine who is an engineer. She wishes that she had had more hands-on practical experience in building (Shop) when she began as an engineering student and as an engineer. It makes sense that lots of practical experience "making stuff" with lots of different materials would help one to intrinsically understand the properties of that material.

[Arcadia]

2) Junior Lego League I have been looking unsuccessfully for a JLL group for dd6 to join. I may start one on my own, but information from Lego League is cryptic until you plop down the money for a club. Since I'm not sure that I can properly mentor a club, and no one else may join our team, it so far seems foolish to drop a few hundred dollars on a maybe. That's a lot of money for our family.

 

Warning: I have another friend who tried to advise a Lego League team for her son and his friends. She had no background in programming or engineering, and she was too strict in not teaching the boys what she had learned so far..and made the boys try to learn everything from the ground up on their own. Her team fizzled out. If you choose to manage a team, be kind to yourself and give your team a year of learning before you have any great expectations.

 

 

Junior Lego League is non-competitive. You can just start a lego club of your own if you want as along as you don't use the name JLL. For First Lego League, it is better to attend the FLL competition as spectators to get a feel of the work needed. It is a lot of work and money to start a team. You need two sets of mindstorms, one to compete and one as backup. The fees are also not cheap. There is also the travelling to the regional and state competition rounds.

[tammyw]

All of this is my son exactly (minus the cage fighters - we don't know what that is!)

 

He's gone through his snap circuits including the rover many times. He started a game maker program last week with his dad (loved it), but I'm also looking for more options.

[amiemac78]

My son loves robots too. He has the Ollo action kit. I purchased it on timberdoodle.com last Christmas. Ollo also has some larger learning kits that come with a 12 week curriculum that look cool. They are on robotiskidslab.com. Click on products and then on ollo to bring up the page to read about them and the kits.

[Arcadia]

All of this is my son exactly (minus the cage fighters - we don't know what that is!)

 

 

I don't know what is cage fighters either so I googled. It is a new game show where two robots battle it out and the contestants control the robots.

[Jennifer3141]

Have you contacted your local 4H office?

[TechWife]

My DS7 would love, love, love to build robots. Unfortunately, I have no idea of even where to start. He eventually wants to make the battle robots, but understands that there is a long road between where he's at and cage fighting robots (note moderate maternal annoyance that this is what fascinates him, but at least he's decided to be interesting in something ). In any case, where do we start? Seven years old strikes me as at the young end of trying to do robotics, but he's motivated and can learn an amazing amount when actually motivated.

 

My son was just like this as 7. Others here have given you great ideas on how to get started. My son was involved in FLL until he aged out. His final year his team earned the state championship, that was really cool!

 

However, my son got really burned out on robotics. The competition can be intense and long hours of practice are required. I'm sad to say that he had absolutely no interest in progressing on to FTC or FRC & has only used his NXT a couple of times since that state championship two years ago.

 

So, have ideas on what steps he would need to take, but don't over-focus on the goal of the big robots. Help him get the most out of what he is enjoying at the moment, but remember that goals and interests change, so be ready & willing to roll with it. Competitions are great fun & the kids learn a lot, but choose the team wisely. Coaches and mentors make a world of difference on the atmosphere and motivation for the team.

[mommymonster]

Thanks *so* much, everyone! You are amazing, amazing resources! The Robotics book Farrar recommended is on its way, and I broke down and bought a beginning robotics kit (the jumping grasshopper). If the interest remains, we will go down the path of Lego WeDo, and then take it from there.

 

The cage fighting robots are something DS7 found on YouTube. It's a little horrifying, and yet if it gets him onto a STEM path... well, let's just say it has a bit more potential than being a gold miner in the old West, which is his current career aspiration. :mellow:

[Haiku]

Good thread!

 

Tara

[dbmamaz]

However, my son got really burned out on robotics. The competition can be intense and long hours of practice are required. I'm sad to say that he had absolutely no interest in progressing on to FTC or FRC & has only used his NXT a couple of times since that state championship two years ago.

I'm glad we werent the only ones! the FLL sounds like a good idea, and they SAY they are all about inspiring kids in tech and robotics - but in reality there's an awful lot of bad coaching and crazy long hours, and I'm pretty sure all but 2 of the kids on my teen's FTC team are now much LESS interested in tech and robotics than they were before they started.

[FriedClams]

I'll add a couple:

 

4H in our area actually has a robotics class and camp.

 

Lego Mindstorm when he's older (I wouldn't go with it until he's at least 9 or 10).

 

Seaperch - You can google it. They recently held their regional competitions but you can do it next year. You buy the kit through the program, and build and compete. It's very fun and the prices aren't as high as First Lego League (which are ridiculous IMHO).

[serendipitous journey]

I've been wanting to figure out the 7-yo Robotics thing myself ...

 

The Little Professor robotics kit is what jump-started A's enthusiasm. This is a very challenging project for a 7-yo, it took many hours and a great deal of help, but we were all very satisfied with the experience. The final product (robot arm) doesn't get a lot of use, though; and if you add this to your curriculum, I'd plan on skipping the soldering kit. Modern, lead-free solders are very difficult to use (don't melt quickly) -- flux helps this, but not entirely.

[Momof3littles]

Look at Lego Wedo.

 

ETA: You can also look at simple kids' programming stuff - for example, Scratch, which is free. And if you do all that, you can look at things like Arduino and Lego Mindstorms in the future.

This exactly.

 

We started with snap circuits. My 9 yo took a robotics class that used WeDo when he was 8. He's now working on Scratch and building with Mindstorms. DH has him doing some soldering right on a breadboard using lead-free solder. He's done a few small electronics projects. He did this little electronics kit a few months ago: http://cs-sales.net/ve3dxmtrkres.html . He also completed a Velleman spinning wheel and a small radio.

 

We don't have a 4H robotics group. We are going to participate in 4H rocketry, however. DS1 has played around with building Estes rockets in the past.

 

This electronic piano kit came with his soldering kit from Radio Shack: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9jJb3S0WGs and he enjoyed doing that.

[Momof3littles]

 

 

Getting Started in Electronics by Forrest Mims

Make Electronics (Learning by Discovery) by Charles Platt

 

 

We have the first book for my 9 yo DS, and I'll add the 2nd to my list! Thanks for sharing it.

[CookieMonster]

Thanks for asking this OP and all the great replies everyone.

My son is also robotics-minded and I am (was :) ) at a loss as to how to proceed.

:lurk5:

[Arcadia]

National Robotics Week is April 6-14, 2013.

 

http://www.nationalroboticsweek.org/events.php Events page

http://www.nationalroboticsweek.org/resources.php resource page

[Terrilth]

Great thread! My dd is also wanting to build her own robot. (Or save $30,000 for one she saw in a magazine.) :)

We have made the solar powered things in the kits but they are a bit too easy.

My mom found this link for us. I can't wait to get my dh involved in this one. It looks a bit too complex for me.

http://letsmakerobots.com/start

[houseofkids&pets]

:bigear: Listening in since I am new to this too. If we go with Lego, is WeDo the starting point and then move on to Mindstorms?

[Momma2Luke]

:lurk5:

 

Great thread everyone!! Listening in for my 6 1/2yo STEM-crazy kid.... :)

[Forgiven]

Listening in as well. We already did a unit on robotics last year, but my ds8 asked me today if we could do robots again next year...

[mommymonster]

Hi Folks,

I wanted to give you a quick update on what we tried, as it has worked out remarkably well for us. We belong to a hs group, and we started a robotics "club" based on the book Robotics by Cathy Ceceri. Each week the kids read a chapter, and I gather up supplies for one or two projects from the book (the dollar stores in our area are starting to get to know me...). So far, we've done a vibrobot, flubber, and a passive dynamic walker. We have a club of about eight members, and they range in age from 7 to 10. In any case, it has been pretty fun, they seem to be learning some great things, and DS7 has met some similarly interested friends. I think we are going to try to do some of the 4-h robot stuff next, while continuing to practice with Snap Circuits.

[Arcadia]

We belong to a hs group, and we started a robotics "club" based on the book Robotics by Cathy Ceceri.

 

There is a teaching guide for the book http://www.craftsforlearning.com/pdf/2013RoboticsTeachingGuide.pdf

The author's page looks interesting http://www.craftsforlearning.com/

[marbel]

I know this is an old thread but I thought I'd give a perspective from someone with an older student involved in robotics.

 

My son belonged to a robotics club for a couple of years. They did both combat bots and participated in FIRST competitions.

 

They progressed very well in FTC or FRC (can't remember which) - they came in 2nd in the state finals. They had a good time, and were happy to have participated. But they were a bit disillusioned by a few things. The competitions were sometimes poorly run; scoring errors were common, and the adults running it were not amenable to being corrected by the young people on the teams. The most troubling thing for the boys, though, was their discovery that robotics skill alone was not the only consideration in scoring points. Our team was small and independent, but highly skilled. They were competing against larger teams from high schools. Teams were given points for their uniforms/costumes, team spirit, chants, songs, etc. I've forgotten the name of one of the biggest awards but it had nothing to do with robotics skill at all! We heard a fair bit of speculation from other adults that those extras were added to bring make the robotics clubs more attractive to girls. I don't know how true that is. (And certainly not every girl in a club was there only to help with costumes.)

 

The combat robot competition was quite different. The participants there were mostly adults or families, not school clubs. There was a great sense of camaraderie at the competitions, with more experienced participants giving advice, help, and spare parts to the younger/less experienced ones. Scoring was more straightforward: no one got points for cute costumes! It was also a lot more fun than I'd expected!

 

All in all my son has better memories of the combat competitions.

 

His robotics club broke up when the leader went to college. My son would enjoy finding another club, but he's not really interested in FIRST competitions anymore. One year he and my husband may build a combat bot, though!

[tammyw]

There is a teaching guide for the book http://www.craftsfor...achingGuide.pdf

The author's page looks interesting http://www.craftsforlearning.com/

 

Thanks for this post. I just ordered that book from the library!

[PIE!]

Thanks for bringing up this old thread! It's just what I needed!

[EmilyGF]

My sister used to build robots, before she had kids. Here was her background:

 

1) she had a drawer the size of a trundle bed of duplo under her bed and built with it whenever she could

1.2) she up-cycled trashed bikes into an irish-mail

2) she did Kumon when her math skills weren't up-to-snuff for about 2 years around 6th grade

3) she built anything and everything she could with wood (because my dad had a wood shop) - she even build me a loft bed and desk

4) she built a hovercraft using a lawnmower motor for the fan for an English project in high school

5) she majored in mechanical engineering but ended up taking Electrical Engineering classes and TAing one of the most challenging EE circuitry classes

 

I think her background in building whenever she could, and being creative about her parts (trashed bikes, trashed lawnmower motor) were really important to her skills. A lot of people pay money for expensive robotics camps where everything is provided, but being creative within money limits is really important.

 

BTW, she built robots for testing hard drives and got to work in a clean room.

 

Emily

[obsidian]

Since there seems to be a lot of talk about FIRST, a few things I've learned in my years of FIRST participation.

 

FIRST Lego League (FLL) is NOT purely a robotics competition. It is about teamwork, scientific research, and robotics, with all three parts weighted equally. There is also a large emphasis on community outreach, mentoring other teams, etc. FLL is an amazing program when the team is run well, but it can be a disaster if not. Honestly, if you want your kid on an FLL team, the best approach is to start a team, or put your kid on a team a friend is starting. (If anyone is interested in starting a team, let me know; I can help you with more of the specifics of starting a team and what to do/not to do.) FLL is also a lot of work...between field trips, research, and programming, it can eat up a lot of time, and it becomes even more time consuming when competition looms close.

 

FIRST Robotics Challenge (FRC) and FIRST Tech Challenge (FTC) are much more robotics focused. FRC has a six week season and it is much much more time intensive than FLL (think 12+ hour weeks). It is a lot more like real life engineering, however, with engineers as mentors and a product (the robot) to produce in just six weeks. There is an award in FRC called the Chairman's Award which some teams may choose to work toward; this award is purely about inspiring kids in STEM areas and community outrach. FRC teams are somewhat like small businesses and can have upwards of 50 kids on the team. It is sometimes difficult to find teams open to homeschoolers because teams are mostly associated with public schools and due to liability may not be able to have homeschoolers on their teams. This is an incomplete list of teams which will take homeschoolers (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97616). FTC is a lot like FLL, minus the robot portion. It has a smaller team size, requires less of a time comittment than FRC (keep in mind that the FTC season is longer than the FRC season, though), and also requires much less funding.

 

 

[brownie]

Lego Mindstorm does not fall apart. It is made from Lego Technic primarily. You may want to check out a Lego technic building kit first to see if that appeals more to your son. DS8 has been building lego technic kits for about 2 years. My boys all get experience with Lego Mindstorm by age 8. FLL has been an awesome experience for us and I have coached previously. Best thing my kids have ever done for their education.

Brownie

[Matryoshka]

Teams were given points for their uniforms/costumes, team spirit, chants, songs, etc. I've forgotten the name of one of the biggest awards but it had nothing to do with robotics skill at all! We heard a fair bit of speculation from other adults that those extras were added to bring make the robotics clubs more attractive to girls. I don't know how true that is. (And certainly not every girl in a club was there only to help with costumes.)

 

 

Bleh. I hate that kind of thing. My dd was the only girl on her FTC team this year. She was a programmer. She likes jeans, sneakers and t-shirts, and has exactly zero interest in chants or costumes. I do wish they'd attract more girls, but not as window-dressing, please. Yeah, like maybe if you make the Mindstorms robot pink, more girls will buy it. :ack2:

[ProudGrandma]

My son loves robots too. He has the Ollo action kit. I purchased it on timberdoodle.com last Christmas. Ollo also has some larger learning kits that come with a 12 week curriculum that look cool. They are on robotiskidslab.com. Click on products and then on ollo to bring up the page to read about them and the kits.

 

my son loves these too...I have been looking for other sets just like it, but not super expensive...haven't seen them yet. Still looking.

[Carrousel]

Listening in, thanks to everyone sharing their ideas!

[Guest KathyCeceri]

Hello, everyone! I am the author of the activity book Robotics: Discover the Science and Technology of the Future mentioned by several people above. I'm glad to hear the book is helpful! I actually found this page because I'm starting to do research for a follow-up. I welcome all comments, questions, and suggestions about the projects in the first book or what you'd like to see in a second one. You can contact me through my website Crafts for Learning. I've also got a Facebook page called Amazing Robotics Projects.

 

I also wanted to mention that I am a homeschooling mom and run the Homeschooling site on About.com -- in which capacity I got to meet Susan Wise Bauer at Book Expo America in NYC a couple weeks ago! I'm running quick Summer Science Activities every week, in addition to general advice and information, so please come check out my site.

 

Thanks! ...kathy

 

PS: Sorry for being so spammy -- but I thought it was appropriate in this thread. :)

[shamima]

I wonder if anyone has experience with Arduino. We bought the kit and were excited about doing the first 2 projects but then need a soldering gun for the future projects. I was a software programmer in my other life but now I am lost in terms of how to go about soldering boards - never even bought a soldering gun, not much help available out there. Anyone knows of junior groups for Arduino. My son is 10.

 

Shamima

[Guest KathyCeceri]

I wonder if anyone has experience with Arduino. We bought the kit and were excited about doing the first 2 projects but then need a soldering gun for the future projects. I was a software programmer in my other life but now I am lost in terms of how to go about soldering boards - never even bought a soldering gun, not much help available out there. Anyone knows of junior groups for Arduino. My son is 10.

 

Shamima

 

We have used the SparkFun Inventors Kit that comes with the Arduino shield and a lot of components. Everything plugs into a breadboard, so you don't need to solder. Something else that might be helpful is a new book by my former colleague James Floyd Kelly, Arduino Adventures: Escape from Gemini Station. He wrote many of the Lego Mindstorms books one of my sons used. His adventure books take kids through the technology using a story with challenges they must solve.

[Momof3littles]

We bought a $35 electronics tool set at Radioshack and my 9 yo started soldering on a breadboard this year. He has been doing small projects like those from Velleman. He hasn't done anything with Arduino yet but DH is interested in getting there. He figured the soldering out pretty quickly.

[Iskra]

We have used the SparkFun Inventors Kit that comes with the Arduino shield and a lot of components. Everything plugs into a breadboard, so you don't need to solder. Something else that might be helpful is a new book by my former colleague James Floyd Kelly, Arduino Adventures: Escape from Gemini Station. He wrote many of the Lego Mindstorms books one of my sons used. His adventure books take kids through the technology using a story with challenges they must solve.

 

The James Floyd Kelly books look very intriguing.  Thank you for pointing those out!