Conjoined twins fact poll

[cathmom]

I just watched a tv show and am wondering what the level of knowledge regarding conjoined twins is. Please answer the poll with your first reaction and without googling.

 

Thanks for indulging me!

[SKL]

Conjoined twins have always been a fascination of mine.

[SKL]

I will say that my sister-in-law once said she wondered if my brother and I were identical twins. :) He's 3.5 years my senior AND a guy.

[Janie Grace]

I voted identical because I believe it's when a fertilized egg in the midst of splitting (ie, to yield identical twins) stops doing so sometime before the process is complete. Right?

[Mrs Mungo]

Janie, I think she was trying to see how many people know that.

[cathmom]

Ok, so I see that even with the massive amount of hive knowledge, not everyone knows that conjoined twins must be identical. I can safely assume that the general population doesn't automatically know this then. I must therefore forgive the producers of Hot in Cleveland for making an episode in which Victoria has a blind date with a conjoined twin, who is not identical to his supposed conjoined twin.

[SKL]

Ok, so I see that even with the massive amount of hive knowledge, not everyone knows that conjoined twins must be identical. I can safely assume that the general population doesn't automatically know this then. I must therefore forgive the producers of Hot in Cleveland for making an episode in which Victoria has a blind date with a conjoined twin, who is not identical to his supposed conjoined twin.

 

Well, I didn't see the episode, but I guess it depends on what you mean by "identical." If you mean same DNA, then yeah. But if you mean they look identical, not always. In fact, a conjoined twin can be underdeveloped or deformed or wear a different size from his twin.

[cathmom]

Lol...someone took away their vote. It's not a public poll...don't worry! ;-)

[dancer67]

I have first hand experience in this matter. Well, sort of. Conjoined twins are ALWAYS identical. I had a monoamnionic/monochorionic twin pregnancy. Very rare. My medical records showed that if my egg did not split when it did, it was a matter of hours and my girls would have been conjoined. MOMO twins(nickname) is extremely rare. My egg decided to split last second. My girls shared the same sac with no dividing membrane. So the biggest risk of course, was cord entanglement. The only thing my GYN could do was monitor me very closely. But I could walk in and have an ultrasound, and the girls would be fine. But could walk out and one could die and I wouldn't even know it. After MOMO twins get to be larger, the cord entanglement risk goes down somewhat. But one wrong move on one twins part and...............Unfortunately for me, one of my identical MOMO twins did not make it. In a MOMO twin pregnancy, you cannot go "longer". If one twin dies, the other one cannot stay in your uterus as toxins will pass through your survivor. So the goal is to at least get them to 27 weeks so if one passes away, the other one could be saved. I went in for my last and final ultrasound on September 8th as I was scheduled for a C-section on Sept 9th, 1998. My other twin had passed away in utero and I did not know it. I had an emergency C-section at 29 weeks 6 days. My other daughter died from hydrops and congestive heart failure. She had a very, small thin cord. Due to the fact that my egg had split so late. I truly believe that my twin, Kari that died hung on long enough for my other daughter to come into the world. If Kari had died in utero before 24 weeks, my survivor would have never made it. My surviving twin is now 14. She knows all about Kari, and the issues surrounding her birth. She now sees the same GYN who delivered her. My office has never seen a case of MOMO twins, and they still have not to this day. My survivor beat all the odds. She spent over 2 months in NICU, weighed 2lbs 14 oz at birth, came home at 4 pounds 7 oz. Spent two months on oxygen and a heart monitor. I was told she would never walk or talk. Well, after lots of PT as a baby, she walked at 2 years old, talked at 15 months. And today, she figure skates and sings professionally. If anyone know of someone who has experienced the loss of a MOMO twin, both twins, or is pregnant with MOMO's, please get in touch with me and I can give you the name of a very good support group.

[Starr]

Nothing like proving the doctors wrong in a big way!

[dancer67]

I don't know what Dr's you are referring to. But if a Dr. says conjoined twins are not identical, they got their license out of a cracker jack box. BTW, conjoined twins and MOMO twins are almost always girls. It is usually 75% of all conjoined and MOMO twins. Nobody knows why.

[cathmom]

Dancer67, I am so sorry for your loss!

 

I have a set of identical twins who shared a placenta but were in separate sacs. They told us that if they were in the same sac, they would have admitted me to the hospital at viability to monitor constantly. Thankfully that wasn't our situation.

[dancer67]

Thank you. When I was first told about this I was offered selective reduction. I said no way. This happened for a reason. It was a long, hard journey. It was my third pregnancy, thankfully. If it had been my first, I am not so sure how I would have reacted. The whole thing was very scary and overwhelming. I wouldn't wish it upon anyone.

[renmew]

My best friend had two boys MOMO and lost them at 20 weeks due to cord entanglement. We remember those two, very special boys every year. Her five living children know about and love their two missing brothers.

[dancer67]

My best friend had two boys MOMO and lost them at 20 weeks due to cord entanglement. We remember those two, very special boys every year. Her five living children know about and love their two missing brothers.

I am very sorry for their loss. As I said, cord entanglement is the biggest risk. And the hardest part is that you are a mother, and there is not a darn thing you can do. Just keep the faith. My daughter talks about her sister all the time. When I look at her though, I know exactly what Kari would look like at this age. Please tell your friends I am very sorry for their loss.

[MeaganS]

My dh's identical twin sisters are Momo twins. They were born at 31 weeks and are both beautiful (seriously gorgeous) girls who look very different from each other now that they are fully grown. My MIL's birth story with them is scary and stresses me out just to hear about it, but I know we are all grateful every day that things worked out like they did.

[dancer67]

My dh's identical twin sisters are Momo twins. They were born at 31 weeks and are both beautiful (seriously gorgeous) girls who look very different from each other now that they are fully grown. My MIL's birth story with them is scary and stresses me out just to hear about it, but I know we are all grateful every day that things worked out like they did.

Thank goodness. I am happy things worked out for her.

[Mom2TheTeam]

I have two sets of twins. (Neither are conjoined. Both are frats. :)) I was also pregnant with a set of ID's but lost one, probably mo/di, but the membrane was not confirmed before we lost the twin. I am amazed at how little the general public knows about twins and ID twins. I've had OB's and u/s techs and even other moms of twins give info that is incorrect. It makes me giggle. Of course, if you've never researched it, you don't know. And, most don't research it if they don't have a reason to.

 

I get asked fairly often if my girl/boy twins are ID's. I even had one person ask, "how do you tell them apart?" Umm..if I'm not sure I just open their diaper! Ha, ha! I get asked if my boy/boy twins are ID also even though one is blond and the other has brown hair. But, at least they are both boys. ;)

 

Dancer67 - I'm am so sorry for the loss of Kari. I can't even imagine what you must have gone through. Of course, you are right about how rare MoMo really is. I find it interesting that so many women with ID's (or even frats whose placentas fuse!) are told they have MoMo's only to discover a dividing membrane later on in the pregnancy or after birth. I'm also surprised by how few people know the best time to see that membrane is very early on in the pregnancy. My SIL (who's husband is a dr, a GP though, not OB or Peri/MFM) had trips 6wks prior to my first set of twins. She didn't even see a perinatologist till she was 16wks pregnant. The peri told her the two girls were MoMo's. Very intersting to me because I saw her earlier u/s. It was very clear there were 3 separate sacs. (I kept quiet!) Of course, ID's can be in separate sacs, but it was much more likely they were all frats because she had done IVF and transferred 4 embryos. Anyway, she had them at 25wks exactly and they were still telling her they were MoMo. They are SO clearly not even ID's. Turns out, her obviously frat girls' 2 separate placentas fused and there was so little space, they just couldn't find the membrane. But, it was there. I still never said anything, but I like knowing I was right and I still wonder why her peri never saw those initial u/s photos and why her hubby, a dr., didn't question it.

 

Anyway, there is a lot of misinformation out there about all types of twins.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Mom2TheTeam

[DianeW88]

My last miscarriage was mono amniotic twins. My OB said that he had never personally seen a good outcome with them. I consider the early miscarriage a blessing.

[dancer67]

Dr's are very uninformed about twins. Specifically MoMos and Conjoined. I know my Dr's sent me to Boston to see if they could find a membrane. They could not. They sent me back to my GYN and then was referred out to a Peri. But all they could do was watch and wait. At 25 weeks, I was given steroids to boost the babies lungs. As my Dr's already knew they were going to deliver me at 30 weeks. I refused the selective reduction. As I said, I knew there was a reason for all of this. And in situations like this, where I am reading I am not alone, I can empathize with people who have been through this and help. I am blessed to have my daughter. She is nothing short of a miracle. And Kari, as sick as my little baby was, hung on long enough to my daughter could survive.Thank you for the condolences. It still hurts. Something like this never goes away. The pain just eases.

[dancer67]

My last miscarriage was mono amniotic twins. My OB said that he had never personally seen a good outcome with them. I consider the early miscarriage a blessing.

 

I wonder how many MoMos he has actually seen. In the 30 years my Dr. had been in practice, he never had a case, and still has not in 14 years. No, generally speaking they usually do not have a good outcome. I was VERY lucky that I went in for that U/S that day, or my survivor would have died. They had me down in the OR in 15 minutes flat. My poor DH drove 80 mph to get there for the delivery. One born with silence, my other one who cried, and I cried with relief. Such an emotional roller coaster.

[bpskowski]

My dds are MO/MO. I was sent to a twin specialist, his first response was to recommend selective reduction. Uh no! I ended up with the head of maternal-fetal medicine at Columbia University Hospital in NYC. She, Dr. Simpson has been doing research on MO/MOs. At 23 weeks I went in for continual monitoring. They looked for specific signs on the heart monitors. If they found those signs, they would of had the babies out in 6 minutes. They gave me steroids as well, twice for their lungs. They lasted to their 34 week mark. They take the babies at 34 weeks because the risk goes way back up again as they get big because of cord compression. When they took them they were both over 6 lbs. They thought they'd be home free. But the steroids apparently didn't take too well. But after 3 weeks in the NICU, they came home healthy. It was a horrible 2 1/2 months but everything worked out well, I was in the best of hands. Ironically, another MO/MO woman came in during my stay. The doctors were just amazed and joked that they wanted to take our pictures, because it is so rare and for them to have two of us at once was incredible. Her baby girls also made it to the 34 weeks and went home healthy as well.

 

Yes, if the egg had split any later they would have been conjoined twins.

[bettyandbob]

I 've known this since middle school. I don't understand why someone with a medical degree wouldn't know this. I would assume this to be very basic knowledge. I would be seriously disturbed if I found out one of my doctors didn't know this.

[Dory]

My little brothers shared a sac. Their 21st birthday is today. They separated late, one has a pretty big dimple and the other a skin tag. They are perfect mirror twins as they were back to back. They made it to 32 weeks and almost made it to the 5lb mark when they were born.

[gardenmom5]

:blink: ok, so far 47 people think conjoined twins can be either. um, I have to wonder (based on some responses as well) if people know what "conjoined" twins are.

[gardenmom5]

or maybe they've been reading the articles on the guy who photographs people and their long lost identical "twin". some of the resemblences have been striking, but they are not related.

 

though one set worked at the same compnay, bought the same scrubs and the same glasses frames before they met. their boss mixes them up.

[dancer67]

your little brothers may be identical (and MOMO - meaning shared sac, which can be dangerous), but they are NOT conjoined.

Exactly. MoMo's and conjoined are NOT the same. Mine shared the same sac, same placenta same everything. Basically, they were roomies. I have never heard of a set of fraternal MoMo twins. Not sure how that would be possible, being two eggs are dropped and fertilized separately. Unless you end up with TWO sets of identical MoMo twins. Which, BTW just happened not to long ago. I think it has only happened to less then 50 people.

[dancer67]

My dds are MO/MO. I was sent to a twin specialist, his first response was to recommend selective reduction. Uh no! I ended up with the head of maternal-fetal medicine at Columbia University Hospital in NYC. She, Dr. Simpson has been doing research on MO/MOs. At 23 weeks I went in for continual monitoring. They looked for specific signs on the heart monitors. If they found those signs, they would of had the babies out in 6 minutes. They gave me steroids as well, twice for their lungs. They lasted to their 34 week mark. They take the babies at 34 weeks because the risk goes way back up again as they get big because of cord compression. When they took them they were both over 6 lbs. They thought they'd be home free. But the steroids apparently didn't take too well. But after 3 weeks in the NICU, they came home healthy. It was a horrible 2 1/2 months but everything worked out well, I was in the best of hands. Ironically, another MO/MO woman came in during my stay. The doctors were just amazed and joked that they wanted to take our pictures, because it is so rare and for them to have two of us at once was incredible. Her baby girls also made it to the 34 weeks and went home healthy as well.

 

Yes, if the egg had split any later they would have been conjoined twins.

 

No, there are not many of us around. I have been on CLIMB(Center for Loss in Multiple Births), and there are some great success stories. But unfortunately, it isn't usually due to medical intervention. It is just a matter of luck. There is nothing Dr's can do to stop cord entanglements. There has been *some* research into placing a dividing membrane into a sac. But so far, nothing has come of it. It is just so frustrating knowing you are carrying MoMo's, and praying everytime you walk into that U/S room. Even though my daughter had been alive the day before, and they delivered both of them. Kari would have never made it. And it would have been so much harder to have her die in my arms, and make a painful decision.She died peacefully, and I am grateful that she didn't suffer.

[Dory]

I'm not sure how in this day and age someone would not know what a conjoined twin was. The very name is rather obvious. Just because you have identical twins doesn't mean that they are conjoined, no matter how close a call it might have been, if you gave birth to two babies, they aren't conjoined. If you have fraternal twins, I'm not sure how people would think that they could end up conjoined. Trying to come up with a possible answer for how someone would explain fraternal twins being conjoined is really making me scratch my head. Perhaps the problem is because people are confused by the terms fraternal and identical.

[Mom2TheTeam]

Yeah, mo/mo's cannot be frats. Frats can "share" a placenta. But, it isn't one placenta. It's two placentas that fuse and look like one placenta. If you had two sets of mo/mo twins, you would have quads. The two sets of ID's would be frats to the other set of ID's. Totally could get confusing! LOL!!

[Guest]

I remember once in my high school art class, a girl who had a twin brother was showing off a scar on her arm and telling the other students, "That's where they separated me from my brother." I was just :rolleyes: . I guess she enjoyed the attention.

[Mom2TheTeam]

I'm not sure how in this day and age someone would not know what a conjoined twin was. The very name is rather obvious. Just because you have identical twins doesn't mean that they are conjoined, no matter how close a call it might have been, if you gave birth to two babies, they aren't conjoined. If you have fraternal twins, I'm not sure how people would think that they could end up conjoined. Trying to come up with a possible answer for how someone would explain fraternal twins being conjoined is really making me scratch my head. Perhaps the problem is because people are confused by the terms fraternal and identical.

 

 

Don't even bother trying to figure out how frats could be conjoined because they can't. LOL! ;)

 

Their placentas can fuse. They thought my boy/boy twins placentas were fused for a little while, but then the tech found a very small separation. Luckily, they stayed apart because 2 completely separate placentas are always better. Two of everything is the safest for all twins. ID's can have everything separate or everything shared. The most common is a shared placenta, but different sacs.

[Guest]

I guessed it could be either. Apparently I'm wrong?

 

I really had no idea though.

 

 

You are brave, though. :laugh: Conjoined are always identical because "identical" is the term for twins that originate as one sperm and one egg - thus, exact genetic copies. Conjoined twins happen when the fertilized egg does not completely separate before replicating as separate people (identical twins). Fraternal twins are always two eggs and two sperm, which means the DNA is as "scrambled" as any ordinary siblings.

[dancer67]

I'm not sure how in this day and age someone would not know what a conjoined twin was. The very name is rather obvious. Just because you have identical twins doesn't mean that they are conjoined, no matter how close a call it might have been, if you gave birth to two babies, they aren't conjoined. If you have fraternal twins, I'm not sure how people would think that they could end up conjoined. Trying to come up with a possible answer for how someone would explain fraternal twins being conjoined is really making me scratch my head. Perhaps the problem is because people are confused by the terms fraternal and identical.

:iagree:

[dancer67]

And FTR, identical twins are not hereditary unlike fraternal twins.

[Mom2TheTeam]

And FTR, identical twins are not hereditary unlike fraternal twins.

 

 

I always want to giggle a little when someone says something like, "my HUSBAND has ID (identical) twin sisters. So, it runs in our family." :)

 

Just as ID's are not hereditary, being genetically predisposed to frat twins has to come from the woman's side. She is the one who has to release 2 eggs at a time, not the man. He always releases more than one swimmer! LOL!!

 

So, for anyone who doesn't know, saying the above is totally incorrect. Not only are ID's not genetic, it can't run through the husband either. *giggle*

[bpskowski]

But unfortunately, it isn't usually due to medical intervention. It is just a matter of luck. There is nothing Dr's can do to stop cord entanglements.

 

Yes, luck is definitely in play. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. They would not take me into the hospital until week 23 because before that time, even if they could get the babies out, their chances of survival was minimal. After that 23 weeks, their chances start improving daily, and they were willing to remove the babies if the saw the signs of danger. But the Drs' main purpose after that point was to keep them in there as close to 34 weeks as possible.

[athena1277]

:blink: ok, so far 47 people think conjoined twins can be either. um, I have to wonder (based on some responses as well) if people know what "conjoined" twins are.

 

I voted either, but had a reason. Years ago I had seen a show on TV about conjoined twins. There was a set of adult twins joined at the head that appeared to be boy/girl twins. I read part of this thread and headed over to Google to prove my point. Turns out they were both girls, and one had changed her name to a boy's name. If you had seen them, she could have passed as a boy, especially if you were paying more attention to their being conjoined.

 

Lesson learned. :blush:

[nukeswife]

I'm having a brain fart day and was reading it as "Look identical" I know the two that are joined at the head and the one rides around on a stool with wheels certainly don't look identical, like another person mentioned the one actually looks more like a boy.

[gardenmom5]

you can have a single person with two DNA signatures - re: human chimera, where fraternal twins fuse in the simple cell stage and develop into a single person. (really causes problems when a legal case is resting on DNA results that can be wrong if you're testing a chimera - and that is no joke, but is in fact real and there are documented cases.)

 

two cases that have received extensive coverage are mothers who were found to not be the genetic mothers of their children, even though they gave birth to them after natural conception. (one mom's children were found to be a better genetic match between her husband and her BROTHER than herself. apparently she fused with her frat twin sister.)

 

just to confuse things more. ;p

[Melissa in Australia]

you can have a single person with two DNA signatures - re: human chimera, where fraternal twins fuse in the simple cell stage and develop into a single person. (really causes problems when a legal case is resting on DNA results that can be wrong if you're testing a chimera - and that is no joke, but is in fact real and there are documented cases.)

 

two cases that have received extensive coverage are mothers who were found to not be the genetic mothers of their children, even though they gave birth to them after natural conception. (one mom's children were found to be a better genetic match between her husband and her BROTHER than herself. apparently she fused with her frat twin sister.)

 

just to confuse things more. ;p

 

 

And the reverse problem occasionally comes up~ 2 people with identical DNA. there is a case in France at the moment of a violent rapist.The police have the DNA and have traced it to 2 people (Identical twins). They are not sure which twin did the crimes so have them both in custody and are not sure how to proceed

[dancer67]

Yes, luck is definitely in play. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. They would not take me into the hospital until week 23 because before that time, even if they could get the babies out, their chances of survival was minimal. After that 23 weeks, their chances start improving daily, and they were willing to remove the babies if the saw the signs of danger. But the Drs' main purpose after that point was to keep them in there as close to 34 weeks as possible.

 

That is what most Dr's will do. I know that is not what you were implying at all. :)...I am very glad things worked out for you.

[Dory]

 

I always want to giggle a little when someone says something like, "my HUSBAND has ID (identical) twin sisters. So, it runs in our family." :)

 

Just as ID's are not hereditary, being genetically predisposed to frat twins has to come from the woman's side. She is the one who has to release 2 eggs at a time, not the man. He always releases more than one swimmer! LOL!!

 

So, for anyone who doesn't know, saying the above is totally incorrect. Not only are ID's not genetic, it can't run through the husband either. *giggle*

 

 

I've always found it fascinating that although ID's are not supposed to be genetic, that we have had 2 sets in my generation, one set of cousins and my brothers, two in my moms generation (brothers), and then a set as my grandmothers brothers. It skips one generation and then every generation following back through that line there is a set of ID twins. Although I suppose other than those that shared a sac it would be impossible to prove that they are ID's back then.

[butterflymommy]

Wait, I'm confused. What about male - female conjoined twins? I saw such a pair on a documentary.

[Jaybee]

I've always found it fascinating that although ID's are not supposed to be genetic, that we have had 2 sets in my generation, one set of cousins and my brothers, two in my moms generation (brothers), and then a set as my grandmothers brothers. It skips one generation and then every generation following back through that line there is a set of ID twins. Although I suppose other than those that shared a sac it would be impossible to prove that they are ID's back then.

 

I, too, find it fascinating that my paternal grandmother had two sets of identical twins (one set had a genetic disorder), and I had identical twins as well. But I read over and over again that having identicals is not genetic.

[Dory]

Wait, I'm confused. What about male - female conjoined twins? I saw such a pair on a documentary.

 

I believe you are referring to Lori and George Schappell. They were born as Lori and Dori but Dori changed his name to George in 2007 as he said he identified with the male gender although he was born female.

[DianeW88]

I wonder how many MoMos he has actually seen. In the 30 years my Dr. had been in practice, he never had a case, and still has not in 14 years. No, generally speaking they usually do not have a good outcome. I was VERY lucky that I went in for that U/S that day, or my survivor would have died. They had me down in the OR in 15 minutes flat. My poor DH drove 80 mph to get there for the delivery. One born with silence, my other one who cried, and I cried with relief. Such an emotional roller coaster.

He was a high risk pregnancy specialist in Denver (since I'd had three previous miscarriages) and he'd seen three sets at that point. One set survived, but one of the twins was severely disabled. In the other two pregnancies, both twins died.

[busymama7]

 

 

I believe you are referring to Lori and George Schappell. They were born as Lori and Dori but Dori changed his name to George in 2007 as he said he identified with the male gender although he was born female.

 

Ok I'm not judging but am seriously asking. I thought the current understanding was that this was a genetic thing. That people were born with the wrong gender. How can this possibly be if two people have identical genes and therefore the same gender but one of them says he is the other gender? I don't get it.

[Dory]

Ok I'm not judging but am seriously asking. I thought the current understanding was that this was a genetic thing. That people were born with the wrong gender. How can this possibly be if two people have identical genes and therefore the same gender but one of them says he is the other gender? I don't get it.

 

Yeah I don't get it either, but that is the story they're telling. Genetically 'he' is female, perhaps he thought that male/female conjoined twins would help them stick out in the media and was simply using it to his/her advantage. Who knows.

[T'smom]

 

 

I always want to giggle a little when someone says something like, "my HUSBAND has ID (identical) twin sisters. So, it runs in our family." :)

 

Just as ID's are not hereditary, being genetically predisposed to frat twins has to come from the woman's side. She is the one who has to release 2 eggs at a time, not the man. He always releases more than one swimmer! LOL!!

 

So, for anyone who doesn't know, saying the above is totally incorrect. Not only are ID's not genetic, it can't run through the husband either. *giggle*

 

Oh my word! I know exactly what you mean! People say this to me a LOT. People find out that my husband is a triplet and they say something about it running in the family. I just smile and say something polite like "oh, I don't think I need to worry about that" but a few times someone has pushed and I have given them a biology lesson.