Forgiveness Questions

[Kaleidoscope]

How do you know if you've forgiven a person? What do you expect of yourself? And I mean in a situation where the person really has to be forgiven - when they've truly wronged you.

 

If you haven't forgiven them but you want to forgive them how do you work towards forgiveness?

[Dandelion]

I know that I've forgiven a person when I'm at peace with the situation. To me, being at peace with the situation means that I can think about it in a detached way. Thinking about it no longer brings up intense pain or anger - it may still stir up emotions, but they feel much more manageable and I'm able to move past them.

 

I'm fairly quick to forgive, because I've realized that holding on to anger mostly harms me. Since I'm not willing to subject myself to even more harm or pain beyond what someone else has already inflicted on me, I forgive. It's important to me to have peace in my life, and forgiving others is a necessary part of that.

 

Granted, I've never experienced anything truly terrible in my life (such as abuse or assault). I've been through plenty of hard times, but have not had to deal with forgiving someone for extreme acts. I would imagine that forgiveness in such situations is much more difficult and complex.

[hsbeth]

I try to remember that forgiveness is a choice and not a feeling. I gauge where I'm at with forgiveness based on these four statements (stolen from peacemakers ministry years ago during a very difficult time).

1. I will not dwell on this incident.

2. I will not bring up this incident again and use it against you.

3. I will not talk to others about this incident.

4. I will not let this incident hinder our personal relationship.

 

Tough to do, but that's always been my goal.

 

Also, I'd have to agree with a couple of pop-culturish statements I've heard.

Forgiveness is a gift that you give yourself.

and

Harboring a grudge/unforgiveness is like letting someone live rent free in your head.

[Mergath]

For me, I know I've forgiven a person if loving them isn't so much work as it used to be.

[AK_Mom4]

I feel like I have forgiven someone when I no longer feel anger about whatever happened.

 

I may not approve of their actions, but I'm not angry any more.

 

ETA - in order to forgive someone, I have to work through my anger. Sometimes that takes a while........

[Flowing Brook]

What has helped me forgive is remembering that on the cross Jesus said " father forgive them for they know not what they do."

 

Also remembering the story in the gospels about the man that was forgiven the huge debt then went on to not forgive the smaller debt that was owed to him. I think of all that God has forgiven me for and how longsuffering he is with me then it helps me to forgive others.

 

I know that I have forgiven the person when the sound of their name or seeing them in public does not affect me or make me angry.

When I find myself no longer dwelling on the issue where I was wronged.

[mytwomonkeys]

i've only had this happen once really. but i knew forgiveness was there when thinking about the circumstances didn't make me feel angry. eventually it turned to just feeling sad for them. i stopped daydreaming about what i would say to them & having conversations in my head. for me, forgiveness was when i truly felt no ill will toward the person. it took a couple of years for me & involved a lot of prayer.

[UmMusa]

I try to remember that forgiveness is a choice and not a feeling. I gauge where I'm at with forgiveness based on these four statements (stolen from peacemakers ministry years ago during a very difficult time).

1. I will not dwell on this incident.

2. I will not bring up this incident again and use it against you.

3. I will not talk to others about this incident.

4. I will not let this incident hinder our personal relationship.

 

Tough to do, but that's always been my goal.

 

Also, I'd have to agree with a couple of pop-culturish statements I've heard.

Forgiveness is a gift that you give yourself.

and

Harboring a grudge/unforgiveness is like letting someone live rent free in your head.

 

 

That would be great. I now realize I'm not over the hurt of my parents' divorce. It does affect my relationship with one of my parents due to the choices that person made.

[Hunter's Moon]

This is something I struggle with constantly. I grew up in an al* co* hol* ic home, so I have a lot of things I am working through, especially now that I am in Al* - An*on.

 

I try and remember that forgiveness is a conscious choice that I have to decide to make vs a feeling. Like a PP, I know I have forgiven someone when I can look back on the issue and not feel anger/resentment/extreme sadness. Not to the point of no feelings at all, because that would be repression, but where my feelings aren't as strong as they used to be.

 

Forgiveness is tough, especially if the person continues to wrong us or has no regrets/sees any reason to apologize. In those cases, detachment is key.

 

(((hugs)))

[NotSoObvious]

I don't know. Let me know when you figure it out. Sigh.

[Parrothead]

What keeps you holding the grudge? How does it bring goodness into your life?

 

There are some guided meditations to help with forgiveness. Journaling out the anger may help. Talking with a minister or priest may help.

 

I hope you find forgiveness and the peace that follows.

[Susan in TN]

When the Holy Spirit gives you an understanding of the depths of your own sin, and you see how Christ has forgiven you - it gives you the ability to "forgive as you have been forgiven."

 

I don't think there is any other way. True forgiveness is not a result of your own work or efforts - it is a work of God in your heart.

[Kaleidoscope]

I think I'm the Grinch or perhaps the Scrooge of forgiveness right now.

 

I've done the repression route to deal with it and was content with that till it led to things blowing up in my face. Now I'm at a loss.

[Liz CA]

It is a process. Don't expect to wake up one morning and feel completely happy with the person. I had to pray daily for help to forgive.

Like Dandelion said, when you are at peace, can see the person without bile coming up, can truly wish him/her well, it's a good sign.

[Kaleidoscope]

I know that I've forgiven a person when I'm at peace with the situation. To me, being at peace with the situation means that I can think about it in a detached way. Thinking about it no longer brings up intense pain or anger - it may still stir up emotions, but they feel much more manageable and I'm able to move past them. I'm fairly quick to forgive, because I've realized that holding on to anger mostly harms me. Since I'm not willing to subject myself to even more harm or pain beyond what someone else has already inflicted on me, I forgive. It's important to me to have peace in my life, and forgiving others is a necessary part of that. Granted, I've never experienced anything truly terrible in my life (such as abuse or assault). I've been through plenty of hard times, but have not had to deal with forgiving someone for extreme acts. I would imagine that forgiveness in such situations is much more difficult and complex.

 

I hate not being able to forgive. I'd always considered myself to be quick to forgive but now it seems more like I was just repressing my feelings than actually forgiving. It's like there's the line in the sand before this event I was forgiving but after that event it was all just backing up. So I'd love to forgive the person for that event and I just seem stuck. He doesn't care at all so I'm the one miserable and I have no desire whatsoever to be unforgiving. I don't wish the person to hurt or suffer. I can be kind and polite to the person. I'm so frustrated.

 

 

I try to remember that forgiveness is a choice and not a feeling. I gauge where I'm at with forgiveness based on these four statements (stolen from peacemakers ministry years ago during a very difficult time). 1. I will not dwell on this incident. 2. I will not bring up this incident again and use it against you. 3. I will not talk to others about this incident. 4. I will not let this incident hinder our personal relationship. Tough to do, but that's always been my goal.

I like those 4 things since they are all choices you can make. Till recently I was choosing to do all 4 of those things the best I could... #4 wasn't working perfectly. But now the incident seems to always be in the back of my mind and I have brought it up to several people though not in an attempt to hurt the person. I do regret that I've talked about it as much as I have though. I wish I could take a lot of it back and unsay it. If only that were an option!

 

For me, I know I've forgiven a person if loving them isn't so much work as it used to be.

 

My love for the person is dead and gone unfortunately.

 

I feel like I have forgiven someone when I no longer feel anger about whatever happened. I may not approve of their actions, but I'm not angry any more. ETA - in order to forgive someone, I have to work through my anger. Sometimes that takes a while........

 

I'm not even angry. I'm just uncomfortable.

 

What has helped me forgive is remembering that on the cross Jesus said " father forgive them for they know not what they do." Also remembering the story in the gospels about the man that was forgiven the huge debt then went on to not forgive the smaller debt that was owed to him. I think of all that God has forgiven me for and how longsuffering he is with me then it helps me to forgive others. I know that I have forgiven the person when the sound of their name or seeing them in public does not affect me or make me angry. When I find myself no longer dwelling on the issue where I was wronged.

 

Knowing the forgiveness I've received is certainly a big motivator to forgive.

 

This is something I struggle with constantly. I grew up in an al* co* hol* ic home, so I have a lot of things I am working through, especially now that I am in Al* - An*on. I try and remember that forgiveness is a conscious choice that I have to decide to make vs a feeling. Like a PP, I know I have forgiven someone when I can look back on the issue and not feel anger/resentment/extreme sadness. Not to the point of no feelings at all, because that would be repression, but where my feelings aren't as strong as they used to be. Forgiveness is tough, especially if the person continues to wrong us or has no regrets/sees any reason to apologize. In those cases, detachment is key. (((hugs)))

 

I think that's a big part of my problem. It's an ongoing situation.

 

What keeps you holding the grudge? How does it bring goodness into your life? There are some guided meditations to help with forgiveness. Journaling out the anger may help. Talking with a minister or priest may help. I hope you find forgiveness and the peace that follows.

 

It doesn't bring anything useful into my life at all. I've done the journaling and talked with our pastor. I don't want to be stuck in this spot. I want to move on because it's making me completely miserable. The situation isn't fixable. It can be undone or erased. I'm pretty sure there is nothing that could be said or done to help me feel better. I just don't know how to get from here to where I want to be.

 

It is a process. Don't expect to wake up one morning and feel completely happy with the person. I had to pray daily for help to forgive. Like Dandelion said, when you are at peace, can see the person without bile coming up, can truly wish him/her well, it's a good sign.

 

Maybe that's it. Maybe I"m just not far enough into the process.

[gardenmom5]

How do you know if you've forgiven a person? What do you expect of yourself? And I mean in a situation where the person really has to be forgiven - when they've truly wronged you.

 

If you haven't forgiven them but you want to forgive them how do you work towards forgiveness?

 

when I feel no more animus. I feel peace towards that person.

 

sometimes it comes quickly. I recall one time sitting in my car, wondering what information we could give to those suing a person who had made our lives miserable. and I mean some real suffering and misery. As I was cogitating, I clearly had come to my mind "vengence is mine, and I will repay." Okay - not my problem. I almost felt sorry for the guy. He wasn't in a position where he could do us further harm, and I'd clearly gotten the message I needed to let it go. now. (and had so destroyed his credibility, he probably wasn't going to be harming anyone else either.)

 

sometimes it takes years - drop by grueling drop. My grandmother probably had a personality disorder - re: she was emtionally abusive. I worked by praying, by whatever method I could come up with. I worked HARD. for YEARS. progress towards forgivness came drop by drop. I examined myself and my own feelings, and had to be brtually objective. at one point I was prompted to seek professional guidance. I believe because I felt God wanted me there, we actually made some dramatic leaps/jumps in understanding. Some things that came out, my initial response was - that can't be true. but on further reflection, it was acurate and what I needed to face.

 

even after she died, for years, I worked to let go of my hard feelings. If I needed a break - I mentally "put it on a shelf" and took it down when I was ready to work some more. I learned about her, what experiences she might have had in her early life that led her to be that kind of person. I came to have compassion she probably experienced some crummy stuff. (suspicions by some of the cousins are some of the 10 girls in her family were xually abused by their father.) but that also wasn't an excuse for how she treated those she supposedly loved when she was a grown up, and they were little children.

 

she did so much damage to our entire family. I realized she could come to me and sincerely beg foregivness, and it would mean nothing becasue the damage was done and I was still trying to fix things. then it wasn't about her so much as about repairing things. I had let go of so much, and had made so much progress, but there was still some left. awhile back the subject of mother's with personality disorders and the affect they have on daughters came up. It was as dramatically enlightening as that inspired visit with a counselor. it explained so much.

 

I don't have the animus - I have peace. sometimes I"m still irked at having to clean up the damage.

[QuirkyKapers]

I have had to verbally forgive someone for something they did. It really wasn't a situation that counselors would recommend doing that in. However, it had been on my mind to do it. So, I did. What it did for me was release me from any responsibility that I felt would come from not forgiving. I could no longer be blamed for not letting this person be involved with family. I could no longer worry that if the person died, that I hadn't absolved myself. I did it. I walked away and had peace. I wasn't the scapegoat any longer. The wrong that had held me captive no longer did. I was able to move forward and not look back. I also believe that my doing this put the responsibility of the wrong done back on the person who did it. I don't know if that makes sense or not.

[Kaleidoscope]

I do play a part in the situation and perhaps that's part of the issue. But I can't do a thing to fix the problem. I wish I could. I'd gladly fix it or help fix it if possible.

 

 

[Kaleidoscope]

 

 

Oh, (smile), I didn't say I could FIX the situation/s. just that I was able to forgive, stop blaming, avoid bitterness, think kindly of the other person. But not to fix things.

 

Oh yeah I know you didn't say that. I was just think aloud. Dreaming a bit about what I do wish I could do.

[somo_chickenlady]

This is something I struggle with constantly. I grew up in an al* co* hol* ic home, so I have a lot of things I am working through, especially now that I am in Al* - An*on.

 

I try and remember that forgiveness is a conscious choice that I have to decide to make vs a feeling. Like a PP, I know I have forgiven someone when I can look back on the issue and not feel anger/resentment/extreme sadness. Not to the point of no feelings at all, because that would be repression, but where my feelings aren't as strong as they used to be.

 

Forgiveness is tough, especially if the person continues to wrong us or has no regrets/sees any reason to apologize. In those cases, detachment is key.

 

(((hugs)))

 

This is what I struggle with in my situation. My sister and parents are this way, so I haven't spoken to my sister in almost 3 years, and have severe detachment from my parents. That is the best I can do at this point. I just can't bring myself to forgive them yet, and my situation happened 3 years ago. Even if I do get to the point of forgiveness, I don't think I can allow them back into our lives...at least to the point that they once were.

[Scarlett]

Dh and I had a long discussion about this just this morning. In my mind there are two situations....1) where a person has wronged us and is repentant. The wrong doer has taken steps to show remorse ( stopping the behavior, paying back when possible and to whatever extent possible) 2) the second is when we have been hurt and the one causing that hurt either doesn't get it or just doesn't care. Certainly they do not express remorse, repentance nor do they try to undo the hurt.

 

I think both situations require us to "let go" so that we are not consumed by resentment which is poison. In the first case I believe a relationship can be restored. Sometimes not--depending on the depth of harm. In the second case I would say your best course of action is to get that person as far out of your life as possible. In the words of my wise mom, "stay away from people who make you feel bad".

 

In both cases you can forgive...in the sense you are saying they no longer are in debt to your for their sin. Forgiveness does not always mean a relationship must be restored.

 

[Kaleidoscope]

I had a friend tell me today she doesn't see unforgiveness in me she sees me consumed by sadness and heart broken.

 

I don't know if she's right since she obviously can't see my heart but maybe there is something to it.

 

Perhaps what I want isn't something that comes from forgiveness.

 

 

[Scarlett]

I had a friend tell me today she doesn't see unforgiveness in me she sees me consumed by sadness and heart broken.

 

I don't know if she's right since she obviously can't see my heart but maybe there is something to it.

 

Perhaps what I want isn't something that comes from forgiveness.

 

Very possible. So sorry.

[TranquilMind]

When the Holy Spirit gives you an understanding of the depths of your own sin, and you see how Christ has forgiven you - it gives you the ability to "forgive as you have been forgiven."

 

I don't think there is any other way. True forgiveness is not a result of your own work or efforts - it is a work of God in your heart.

 

 

Agree, but I will add that forgiveness is a choice and an act, not a feeling.

 

So....I've forgiven some people in my life, and had to say, "I forgive X" multiple times, whenever I thought about it, until I actually felt it some day. And then one day, I do, and I'm at peace.

 

It's still done, even if I am not feeling it yet.

[Scarlett]

I have been hurt badly by a few people in my life. I will leave off the most obvious--xh---:)....and tell you that it is a process. One is my best friends first husband. I loved him like a brother. We were very close.....our weddings were 5 weeks apart.....and when he started his downward spiral he hurt a lot of people. He hurt my best friend so bad that honestly I wanted to hit him. Hard. I dreamed about beating him up. Years went by. My friend divorced him...he remarried...one day he followed me to the parking lot at a function we both attended. He said, again, that he was sorry. He needed my forgiveness. Years earlier he had expressed remorse and I said, " unfortunately you are such a liar that I can't believe a word out of your mouth, but thank you for saying you are sorry...I guess you have to start somewhere." So now standing in that parking lot I looked at him and said, "well the good news is that I no longer have the urge to smash your face in with a baseball bat." He laughed. I smiled. And then I said, "but things will never be like they were."

 

And that is the bottom line. I have forgiven him...but I will never be a part of his life. I will never trust him. And sometimes that is the price that is paid for deep wrongs.

[briansmama]

Dh and I had a long discussion about this just this morning. In my mind there are two situations....1) where a person has wronged us and is repentant. The wrong doer has taken steps to show remorse ( stopping the behavior, paying back when possible and to whatever extent possible) 2) the second is when we have been hurt and the one causing that hurt either doesn't get it or just doesn't care. Certainly they do not express remorse, repentance nor do they try to undo the hurt.

 

I think both situations require us to "let go" so that we are not consumed by resentment which is poison. In the first case I believe a relationship can be restored. Sometimes not--depending on the depth of harm. In the second case I would say your best course of action is to get that person as far out of your life as possible. In the words of my wise mom, "stay away from people who make you feel bad".

 

In both cases you can forgive...in the sense you are saying they no longer are in debt to your for their sin. Forgiveness does not always mean a relationship must be restored.

 

 

Thank you so much for this, very helpful (though I am not the OP).

[Kaleidoscope]

And that is the bottom line. I have forgiven him...but I will never be a part of his life. I will never trust him. And sometimes that is the price that is paid for deep wrongs.

 

 

I get that, at least on a cognitive level. It's not something I've ever put into practice though. Instead I've just ignored everything.

 

Now that I'm trying to take a different approach I can't figure out where and how to draw the line between what is recent enough to act on ad what is the distant past and should be left buried.

 

I don't want to make decisions based on something that happened 5 or 10 years ago. That seems terribly unfair. So I'm trying to resolve those things enough so they aren't influencing me. I can't seem to do it though.

 

I want to forgive, resolve, and no longer care about them. I would take repressing my feelings over these events at this point.

 

I probably want the impossible.

[gardenmom5]

Corrie ten Boom, the author of "the hiding place" shared an experience she had. She had sheltered and helped jews escape the netherlands during wwii. she was caught, and sent to a concentration camp. her father and sister died. a nephew died at another concentration camp. (she was actually freed only due to a mistake in paperwork)

 

when the war was over, she went around teaching forgivenss to help people move on from the psychological damage the war had wrought. She felt inspired that this was her mission from God. After one speaking engagement a man approached her. she knew *exactly* who he was. He had been a guard at the concentration camp, and she remembered him clearly. He had convertered to christianity, and came to beg her forgiveness. he didn't remember her, only that they had both been the, at the concentration camp. He stuck out his hand to shake hers. In that moment - everything she was going around europe teaching hung in the balance. she had to forgive this man. she couldn't do it. She prayed that if she could put out her hand, the Lord would do the rest. She managed to extend her hand - and a miracle happened. she felt an overwhelming love for this man. It warmed her, starting at her hand and enveloping her whole body. She was given the gift of forgiveness.

[Rosie_0801]

 

I don't want to make decisions based on something that happened 5 or 10 years ago. That seems terribly unfair. So I'm trying to resolve those things enough so they aren't influencing me. I can't seem to do it though.

 

 

Is it unfair for people to lie in beds they've made?

[Melissa in Australia]

 

Is it unfair for people to lie in beds they've made?

 

 

Exactly.

[Melissa in Australia]

I don't think people should feel pressured by whatever ( church, others ) to forgive in some circumstances. In fact I think some things should not really be forgiven at all.

I know a family. The wife found out that her husband had repeatedly raped and molested all their daughters ( 6). She left him. He was cast out of the church for a few years, then "repented," he was reinstalled into the church, and the wife was given a HUGE amount of pressure to forgive her husband by the church. After all the church had forgiven him so should she otherwise she was not being a "Good Christian". Under immense pressure she let him move back in, then a few years later she left him completely. She is viewed by the church as the bad one, her husband as the repentant sinner.

[Pod's mum]

Also, I'd have to agree with a couple of pop-culturish statements I've heard.

Forgiveness is a gift that you give yourself.

and

Harboring a grudge/unforgiveness is like letting someone live rent free in your head.

 

This is what bothers me. He doesn't even feel that he has ever done us wrong, yet I'm the one being damaged by my lack of forgivness.

 

sometimes it takes years - drop by grueling drop.

 

I don't have the animus - I have peace. sometimes I"m still irked at having to clean up the damage.

 

 

This is the way I think it'll be for me.

I make progress, then more stuff goes into the fan, and I go backwards again, kicking myself for allowing it to happen.

 

Dh and I had a long discussion about this just this morning. In my mind there are two situations....1) where a person has wronged us and is repentant. The wrong doer has taken steps to show remorse ( stopping the behavior, paying back when possible and to whatever extent possible) 2) the second is when we have been hurt and the one causing that hurt either doesn't get it or just doesn't care. Certainly they do not express remorse, repentance nor do they try to undo the hurt.

 

I think both situations require us to "let go" so that we are not consumed by resentment which is poison. In the first case I believe a relationship can be restored. Sometimes not--depending on the depth of harm. In the second case I would say your best course of action is to get that person as far out of your life as possible. In the words of my wise mom, "stay away from people who make you feel bad".

 

In both cases you can forgive...in the sense you are saying they no longer are in debt to your for their sin. Forgiveness does not always mean a relationship must be restored.

 

 

I try to remember to pray for "my enemies", I can not avoid him, I know he is not capable of caring for others, but as he is the father of my kids I can not avoid him. I have learned certain techniques to prevent as many things continuing to occur that need forgiving.

 

I also feel greatly burdened by my lack of forgiveness. I have been forgiven so much, how an I continue to withhold it from another.

It is really hard when you can't remove yourself.

Hopefully prayer will, drop by drop or with a big wallop, get me there.

I do NOT want to be judged as I judge.

[*Inna*]

It's a process. I have found out that (for me) the bigger the offense is, the longer it will take to forgive.

I've listed things I needed to forgive a person, everything no words spared, and then wrote after each thing "I forgive you".

I've said it out loud. I've learned not to dwell in the bitter memories, redirecting my thoughts.

 

The final, and the hardest thing I've ever done is to pray for that person. Not in the "Lord, please make this person see how they wronged me and repent" ;) , but really, really pray for them as I would pray for my children.

 

Little by little anger and bitterness changed into sadness, and then all I could feel is an echo of the former feeling.

[Rosie_0801]

I also feel greatly burdened by my lack of forgiveness. I have been forgiven so much, how an I continue to withhold it from another.

 

 

The others were onto something when they said detachment. My children have a father too and I am not unfamiliar with the type of situation you are in. He has insulted me on probably every important aspect of my person (without meaning to- he likes me!) so we are not friends. For better or worse, we are family, and I am contented enough with the situation providing he behaves pleasantly enough that I don't have too much difficulty holding up the carpet to sweep my real thoughts and feelings under it. It doesn't matter what either of us really thinks as long as we play nicely. I assume one day enough time will have passed and other happenings will have stitched up the tears in my heart, so when I lift up the carpet I'll find most of the dust under there has fallen down through the floorboards. Sometimes, I think, you just have to wait until you don't care any more. Particularly when the person who has wronged you doesn't. (hug)

[Kaleidoscope]

 

 

Is it unfair for people to lie in beds they've made?

 

 

It feels unfair to me to suddenly make something I formerly ignored into a big deal. I just can't wrap my brain around going back and saying NOW I'm upset with you. If that was being said to me I'd find it incredibly frustrating. I would assume if a situation hasn't been discussed in years that its forgiven and forgotten.

[Kaleidoscope]

I don't think people should feel pressured by whatever ( church, others ) to forgive in some circumstances. In fact I think some things should not really be forgiven at all.

I know a family. The wife found out that her husband had repeatedly raped and molested all their daughters ( 6). She left him. He was cast out of the church for a few years, then "repented," he was reinstalled into the church, and the wife was given a HUGE amount of pressure to forgive her husband by the church. After all the church had forgiven him so should she otherwise she was not being a "Good Christian". Under immense pressure she let him move back in, then a few years later she left him completely. She is viewed by the church as the bad one, her husband as the repentant sinner.

 

 

That is such a sad situation. I can understand why she couldn't be with him. I don't want to be her though. And if I'm really honest I'm terrified of being in a very similar situation. It's already been suggested that I'm hoping for failure so I will feel like I can justify not totally forgiving.

[Scarlett]

I don't think people should feel pressured by whatever ( church, others ) to forgive in some circumstances. In fact I think some things should not really be forgiven at all.

I know a family. The wife found out that her husband had repeatedly raped and molested all their daughters ( 6). She left him. He was cast out of the church for a few years, then "repented," he was reinstalled into the church, and the wife was given a HUGE amount of pressure to forgive her husband by the church. After all the church had forgiven him so should she otherwise she was not being a "Good Christian". Under immense pressure she let him move back in, then a few years later she left him completely. She is viewed by the church as the bad one, her husband as the repentant sinner.

 

 

Mind blowing. There are some things that too much and that is on my list. I've never experienced pressure like that anywhere in my life. As I said my mom says, "stay away from people who make you feel bad".

 

Not too mention anyone pushing for that woman to return to her pervert husband had overstepped their bounds.

[Scarlett]

 

 

It feels unfair to me to suddenly make something I formerly ignored into a big deal. I just can't wrap my brain around going back and saying NOW I'm upset with you. If that was being said to me I'd find it incredibly frustrating. I would assume if a situation hasn't been discussed in years that its forgiven and forgotten.

 

 

It really depends I what this person did to you. I know one woman who was "hurt" by an elderly lady telling her to 'pin your shirt, it is too low". Woman stormed out of the room, making a big scene....I PRAY that sweet little old lady never knows how big of a deal she really made. Certainly 5 years later it needs to be forgotten.

 

But if say someone molested you? Yeah, even 50 years later if you need to address that then yes it needs to be done.

 

I suspect the sin against you lies somewhere in the middle.....I see nothing wrong with going to that person and saying, " hey, this is really bugging me." What do you think the response would be?

[Scarlett]

 

 

That is such a sad situation. I can understand why she couldn't be with him. I don't want to be her though. And if I'm really honest I'm terrified of being in a very similar situation. It's already been suggested that I'm hoping for failure so I will feel like I can justify not totally forgiving.

 

 

So this sounds like a situation where you don't want to continue the relationship?

[Kaleidoscope]

I suspect the sin against you lies somewhere in the middle.....I see nothing wrong with going to that person and saying, " hey, this is really bugging me." What do you think the response would be?

 

 

Oh I did that. The response was, "Seriously? Get over yourself already and quit trying to make drama. So much for being a good little Christian huh?"

 

So all that's left to do is get over it at this point.

 

Uh, yeah, definitely a bigger deal than being told to pin my shirt. Lol.

[Kaleidoscope]

 

 

So this sounds like a situation where you don't want to continue the relationship?

 

 

I'm undecided.

 

If I'm not going to continue the relationship the way it is now I want it to be based on the present and not the past.

[gardenmom5]

I don't think people should feel pressured by whatever ( church, others ) to forgive in some circumstances. In fact I think some things should not really be forgiven at all.

I know a family. The wife found out that her husband had repeatedly raped and molested all their daughters ( 6). She left him. He was cast out of the church for a few years, then "repented," he was reinstalled into the church, and the wife was given a HUGE amount of pressure to forgive her husband by the church. After all the church had forgiven him so should she otherwise she was not being a "Good Christian". Under immense pressure she let him move back in, then a few years later she left him completely. She is viewed by the church as the bad one, her husband as the repentant sinner.

 

I think forgivness isn't fully understood. (and that includes by the church leaders in the above example) Many people seem to equate it with "Forgive and forget" and everything goes back to the way it was before and is hunky-dory peachy-keen. I believe that forgiveness is about letting go of YOUR hurt, YOUR pain, YOUR anger, etc. "I the Lord will forgiven whom I will forgive (re: some do not receive divine forgiveness), but of you it is required to forgive all men (people)". (iow: don't allow them to live rent free in your head.)

 

sometimes a relationship can be salvaged and healed, sometimes hard and fast boundaries must be erected to have any kind of relationship, sometimes severing the relationship is required. but those don't mean you haven't forgiven (or are working towards forgiveness.) if they have done something that requires legal action, then legal action should happen - but is outside of the forgiveness arc, (and in the above case - the guy should be in jail and never allowed around children. pedophiles have a very high recidivism rate.)

 

forgiveness is a gift we give ourselves, and is about ourselves, that we may be at peace.

 

My grandmother most likely had a personality disorder. she was abusive. I've worked hard to let go and forgive her. (with family members treating me like the bad guy.) there's still something I'm struggling with . . . but every iota of progress I've made towards forgiving her (and I started when she was still alive.) has been absolutely worth it.

[sgo95]

I think forgivness isn't fully understood. (and that includes by the church leaders in the above example) Many people seem to equate it with "Forgive and forget" and everything goes back to the way it was before and is hunky-dory peachy-keen. I believe that forgiveness is about letting go of YOUR hurt, YOUR pain, YOUR anger, etc. "I the Lord will forgiven whom I will forgive (re: some do not receive divine forgiveness), but of you it is required to forgive all men (people)". (iow: don't allow them to live rent free in your head.)

 

sometimes a relationship can be salvaged and healed, sometimes hard and fast boundaries must be erected to have any kind of relationship, sometimes severing the relationship is required. but those don't mean you haven't forgiven (or are working towards forgiveness.) if they have done something that requires legal action, then legal action should happen - but is outside of the forgiveness arc, (and in the above case - the guy should be in jail and never allowed around children. pedophiles have a very high recidivism rate.)

 

forgiveness is a gift we give ourselves, and is about ourselves, that we may be at peace.

 

My grandmother most likely had a personality disorder. she was abusive. I've worked hard to let go and forgive her. (with family members treating me like the bad guy.) there's still something I'm struggling with . . . but every iota of progress I've made towards forgiving her (and I started when she was still alive.) has been absolutely worth it.

 

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: I can't agree enough times with this. I've forgiven my father for the hurt he's inflicted in that I don't wish him ill at all. I'm perfectly happy to have him continue in his life, doing what he enjoys, but I can't really let him in my life or feel close to him (he doesn't recognize that he's hurtful to others and isn't remorseful at all). I'm a Christian and I don't believe that the God I believe in requires me to pretend that my father is an important part of my life right now. I recognize the good he's done for me, but I also know it's not healthy for me to have him play any significant role in my life.

[Dandelion]

It feels unfair to me to suddenly make something I formerly ignored into a big deal. I just can't wrap my brain around going back and saying NOW I'm upset with you. If that was being said to me I'd find it incredibly frustrating. I would assume if a situation hasn't been discussed in years that its forgiven and forgotten.

 

I hear what you're saying. But the fact is that whether you "make a big deal of it" or not, the issue is still festering and appears to be damaging your relationship with this person.

 

Would it possibly be more unfair, to both you and the other person involved, if you continue trying to ignore it and suppress it?

 

It sounds like you've tried to approach this person about the issue before and were told to get over it. I'm sorry. :grouphug: If the other person doesn't see the issue as a problem, it can be difficult if not impossible to work through it with them.

 

I think the best (and truthfully, only) approach is to focus on what is within your control in this situation. You can't control what the other person says or does, or how they do/do not respond to your efforts to address the situation. But you can control your part in this.

 

What do you think might be helpful to you in your own effort to move past this? Would it be helpful to let the other person know how what they did or said affected you? Is there an impact from what they did that you need them to be aware of (e.g. you no longer trust them, you've decided to establish some new boundaries for the relationship, etc. - whatever the impact is for you)? Is there something that you feel needs to happen in order to restore the relationship (if you feel it can be restored) and do you want the other person to be aware of this?

 

You can take action on any of those steps without the other person's cooperation or even acknowledgement that there is a problem. If the other person doesn't want to talk to you about this, you can send your thoughts in an email or letter (note: I would not use email if you think this person might forward your email to others).

 

Focus on what you can control and the steps you can take to "clear the air" and move on. Regardless of how the other person responds, or fails to respond, sometimes just giving them the opportunity to meet you halfway is enough to feel like you've done your part. Once that feels complete, the process of forgiveness can begin.

 

:grouphug:

[8circles]

I think, for big things, you don't just forgive once & then it's done. This is what is meant by forgiving 70x7, I think. The big hurts I have to re-forgive every time they're brought to mind. It is a process.

 

:grouphug: Unfortunately, it is far from easy.

[Rosie_0801]

Oh I did that. The response was, "Seriously? Get over yourself already and quit trying to make drama. So much for being a good little Christian huh?"

 

Well bless their hearts. :glare:

 

If something has become a big deal suddenly, years later, it means you've run out of energy for lifting the carpet, not that the dust has spontaneously appeared.

 

The less you have to do with charmer, the better, I say.

 

:grouphug:

[TranquilMind]

Corrie ten Boom, the author of "the hiding place" shared an experience she had. She had sheltered and helped jews escape the netherlands during wwii. she was caught, and sent to a concentration camp. her father and sister died. a nephew died at another concentration camp. (she was actually freed only due to a mistake in paperwork)

 

when the war was over, she went around teaching forgivenss to help people move on from the psychological damage the war had wrought. She felt inspired that this was her mission from God. After one speaking engagement a man approached her. she knew *exactly* who he was. He had been a guard at the concentration camp, and she remembered him clearly. He had convertered to christianity, and came to beg her forgiveness. he didn't remember her, only that they had both been the, at the concentration camp. He stuck out his hand to shake hers. In that moment - everything she was going around europe teaching hung in the balance. she had to forgive this man. she couldn't do it. She prayed that if she could put out her hand, the Lord would do the rest. She managed to extend her hand - and a miracle happened. she felt an overwhelming love for this man. It warmed her, starting at her hand and enveloping her whole body. She was given the gift of forgiveness.

 

That's awesome.

 

Reminds me a little of Eva Kor, a Holocaust survivor in Indiana, who started a Museum. She goes to schools and groups and talks about forgiveness, and how vital it is in order to gain freedom yourself.

[Pod's mum]

I did a bit of thinking on this last night (sleep is over-rated anyway ;) ).

As has been mentioned a couple of times, trust is NOT synonmous with forgiveness.

 

We/I can work at forgiving 7 x 70 and handing over judgment to where it belongs. Not our/my responsibility.

BUT that does not mean we/I am required to trust the 'offender'.

 

Cos that'd just be daft.

[Dandelion]

I did a bit of thinking on this last night (sleep is over-rated anyway ;) ).

As has been mentioned a couple of times, trust is NOT synonmous with forgiveness.

 

We/I can work at forgiving 7 x 70 and handing over judgment to where it belongs. Not our/my responsibility.

BUT that does not mean we/I am required to trust the 'offender'.

 

Cos that'd just be daft.

 

 

 

Exactly.

 

Like the saying goes: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

 

Trusting someone who has proven to you that they cannot be trusted is most definitely daft (love that word!), and has zero to do with forgiving them. Forgiveness can be freely given and must not be earned. Trust, in my book, must be earned.

[Liz CA]

I think forgivness isn't fully understood. (and that includes by the church leaders in the above example) Many people seem to equate it with "Forgive and forget" and everything goes back to the way it was before and is hunky-dory peachy-keen. I believe that forgiveness is about letting go of YOUR hurt, YOUR pain, YOUR anger, etc. "I the Lord will forgiven whom I will forgive (re: some do not receive divine forgiveness), but of you it is required to forgive all men (people)". (iow: don't allow them to live rent free in your head.)

 

sometimes a relationship can be salvaged and healed, sometimes hard and fast boundaries must be erected to have any kind of relationship, sometimes severing the relationship is required. but those don't mean you haven't forgiven (or are working towards forgiveness.) if they have done something that requires legal action, then legal action should happen - but is outside of the forgiveness arc, (and in the above case - the guy should be in jail and never allowed around children. pedophiles have a very high recidivism rate.)

 

forgiveness is a gift we give ourselves, and is about ourselves, that we may be at peace.

 

My grandmother most likely had a personality disorder. she was abusive. I've worked hard to let go and forgive her. (with family members treating me like the bad guy.) there's still something I'm struggling with . . . but every iota of progress I've made towards forgiving her (and I started when she was still alive.) has been absolutely worth it.

 

 

This exactly. Forgive and forget is a myth. We are to forgive but unless we suffer from amnesia we will not forget. How can we realistically? But what can happen is that we remember the incident without pain or feelings of revenge. This is forgiveness IMHO.