Three years with Katya, and all is not well. Would love input!

[Unicorn.]

A lot of her behavior sounds much like my dd w/ a sleep disorder (not all, but quite a few). I would try giving her valerian root for sleep issues. Melatonin helps you fall asleep, valerian root helps you stay asleep. Melatonin can also cause nightmares. Dd takes something called Power to Sleep Pm. Check your local health food store. Once her sleep disorder was discovered, and she started sleeping at night, she was like a different child. Not perfect, but sooo much better.

 

As for the stomach/burping. I would consider removing gluten and dairy from her diet. If she has food allergies, they can also cause behavior problems and bed-wetting.

 

If you need alarms for the doors- consider hanging a bell on the top of each door- that would at least alert you, and shouldn't cost too much.

 

I also think she is suffering from abandonment issues, and likely needs a therapist, but the sleep problems and food are something you can do right now.

 

:grouphug:

[jewellsmommy]

Just an alarm that goes across an area and will go off when passed. Depending on your set up, you could put it across a doorway, in a hallway, across a bedroom, whatever. Some people don't want to "live like that." Others worry that the loud alarm will dysregulate a child more, especially as they are "caught." I feel like we have to do what we have to do to keep everyone safe as well as help them gain health. And our night time parenting helped in time. My ds, the one who was up multiple times per night, now sleeps through the night until the clock turns yellow (or beyond) almost all the time (and when he does wake before it, he lies quietly in bed). And his behavior is 300 times better. Though he still has behaviors, it isn't constant. It also isn't to the same extent. His behaviors were either dangerous or super silly. He also was EXTREMELY anxious, wetting himself as well as making up alternate scenarios (realities?) to a degree you'd never imagine a kid his age could do. It was WILD. Obviously, time, therapy, attachment therapy, theraputic parenting, etc helped. I just *really* believe night time parenting and fixing the sleep issues helped considerably also.

 

 

Ds's bedroom door is alarmed. It is a simple door alarm from Lowes. It can be set to alarm or chime. Ds now sleeps through the night about 90% of the time. There is something comforting about knowing that there is no where else to go. He used to roam around. In fact he told a therapist 1.5 yrs ago that there was a floor board beside our bed that he didn't like because it would squeak when he stepped on it. Apparently there were many nights that he stood over us and watched us sleep. He would also take food and who knows what else. Now, he knows that there are no other options, might as well sleep. It really seemed to alleviate some of the nighttime anxiety once he realized that it was not going away. We set up a baby monitor so that he knew we were easy to talk to if he needed us in the night. Honestly, everybody has slept better the last 1.5 yrs. I know that it is the alarm that has made a difference because he has a family member that he stays overnight with on a regular basis, and he does not sleep when he is there. He is always tired and grumpy when he comes home. SIGH, anyway, they don't have an alarm and I think that is why he is unable to sleep. There are too many possibilities, too many temptations, and it causes anxiety.

 

For ds, we had to remove the clock from his room altogether. He would fixate too much on the time. If he woke in the middle of the night he would stress out and watch the numbers pass. He would freak out that time was passing and he wasn't sleeping. Without a clock present, we have told him if he wakes and there is light out and he feels rested he can get up and read or play with toys. If he wakes, but is tired or it is dark out, to go back to sleep or use positive imagery and prayer until he can fall back asleep. He is doing sooo much better between these two things. He has prescription sleep meds (clonidine) but we manage to not need them now.

 

OP, I hope things get better soon. :grouphug: 2 yrs ago our list of issues looked exactly like yours but also with self harming behaviors and horrible rages. Things are looking a lot better now. Therapy, meds, and time have helped tremendously.

[Sisyphus]

I have no helpful advice, but I am praying for you all and holding Katya up in prayer.

[jujsky]

Oh, Cindy :grouphug: I remember following all your posts about your adoption journey. I'm so sorry things aren't going well. It does sound like RAD to me as well, with possibly some sensory stuff mixed in. You've got to get some help for her and help for you. You must be under an enormous amount of stress.

[AngieW in Texas]

My middle dd is on melatonin now. The doctor said that it doesn't help much at all unless you take it every night. My dd is taking 10mg time-release every night now and it is helping her some. She is still waking up too early, but where she was waking up at 4am unable to get back to sleep, now she's making it past 5am before waking up. She wants to be able to sleep all the way to 7am and is hoping that she'll get there.

[bettyandbob]

Other people have mentioned diet issues. You don't need to see anyone to investigate this, so you don't need to worry about negotiating state ins referrals etc.

 

You can do eliminate artificial colors, flavors and preservatives from her diet now. You can do a trial elimination of gluten and/or dairy. Before you start you need to identify a good selection of acceptable treats. You may also want to do it with her or at least not eat forbidden stuff in front of her so it doesn't feel like a punishment (try to have family meals with rice and potatoes not pasta, etc). These measures reduced, but did not eliminate, bedwetting and significant behavior issues with one of my dc. Just reducing those problems really helped. I also think with a clean diet, you have better physical baseline to go on.

 

Gluten needs to be cleared from the body for 2 months before you can judge improvement (some people see improvement right away or within 2 weeks, but 2 months is what most of the research I read said). I think dairy takes 2-4 weeks. Sometimes people have trouble with both gluten and dairy, but after healing from gluten exposure are able to add dairy back.

[Clarkd]

Yes it is a battery operated monkey that has long arms that go on the door knob. It makes monkey sounds when the door moves. I wish I still had the packaging so I could give names etc. we bought it several years ago at Toys r Us. I will look around on the web later today to see if I can find it. We have also used a ribbon of jingle bells which should be on clearance at most craft stores this time of year.

[Clarkd]

Some general thing that helped us with sensory ussues, lots of exercise, lots of gymnastics, carrying heavy items (not too heavy and always as a game) and the books the out of sync child, the out of sync child has fun.

[bzymom]

No advice but lots of :grouphug: :grouphug: and prayers. I am overwhelmed just reading your posts, so please also try to find a few minutes of peace for yourself each day.

[Twinmom]

 

 

 

This overwhelms me. There definitely could be FAS stuff. She was 1 kilo at birth and we know nothing about her mother's health, care, etc. I don't even know what QEEG is...

 

A QEEG is a specialized brain scan done in an office setting using a cap with a whole bunch of little electrodes on it. It gives a snapshot of how the brain operates electrically (not just a physical "picture" but rather more like a snapshot of the brain in action) and can point out functioning patterns that show a wide variety of issues. Research is showing that many, many adopted children, particularly those who have experienced some sort of trauma or were adopted internationally, have predictably disturbed brain functioning based on the "imprint" of the traumatic experiences on the brain. Brains have "neuroplasticity", which can allow them both to imprint on bad experiences as well as good...and neurofeedback can teach them how to function in a healthy manner at the physical level...at a rate of more than 400x a minute of "nudges" in the positive direction. We did it with three of our kids and one sleep deprived daddy, with unbelieveable results!

 

It is expensive and usually not covered by insurance...boo hoo. We are hugely in debt as a result of the treatment, yet still say it was worth it as it literally saved our family. We spent thousands on therapies prior to NF and all were helpful...but none got us where we needed to be. Our NF therapist told us that things like OT, counseling and the like are necessary, but best done after the foundation of NF has been laid. We have developmentally delayed kiddos due to drug exposure...we are still doing therapies...but NF did the big guns work that I believe saved our kiddos from a lot of grief and helped our family begin to function with some degree of normality! ;)

 

I am in NC...feel free to contact me on PM if I can help in any way. I know lots of places around the state to go for help...have been to a lot of them myself! ;). There are also some excellent books you can check out on NF, RAD and parenting traumatized kids...I'd be happy to recommend a few.

[Cindy in C-ville]

Really, you all are amazing. So, here's our immediate plan:

 

1. Eliminate sugar, grains, and dairy. Leaky gut sounds like a strong possibility to me because of her nutritional deficiencies, lack of prenatal care, trauma, long-term stress, and her addiction to sugar, and anything "white."

 

2. Give her something to sleep every night for now. Once we have medical support around us, work on getting to the root of the sleep issues.

 

3. Put something on her door at night so that I know if she leaves her room.

 

4. Handle the nighttime bedwetting as we have been - pull-up and expect her to dispose of it properly and wash sheets if necessary.

 

5. Apply for Health Choice for Children to get insurance ASAP and enable us to move ahead sooner rather than later with medical services, therapy, etc.

 

6. Get our family connected at Hope Reins - http://www.hopereinsraleigh.org.

 

7. Continue to work on consistent parenting, no lecturing, not asking "Why?," structure, structure, structure.

 

8. Put her to bed positively and wake her up positively.

 

9. Work on developing my personal support network.

 

10. Be sure that grandparents, Sunday school teachers, have enough information to provide structure, consistency, and supervision.

 

11. Keep her in my presence or Bill's presence as much as possible.

 

What am I missing for the "immediate" while I continue to research, get insurance figured out, track down therapists, etc.? Again, you are amazing and I don't feel alone! Thank you!!!!

[Twinmom]

I'd recommend reading the Heather Forbes parenting books. They are an excellent resource for parenting children with traumatic histories. They made a big difference in how we deal with our daughter, the one with the most similarities to your Katya. Totally changed my parenting "paradigm!" Try her way before you label her RAD and try some of the more forceful parenting techniques...you will know quickly whether or not this is for you!

 

Your plan sounds great! I love the Hope Reins idea! Working with horses has been a God send, literally, for DD. She and horses seem to "get" each other and she is always better after she rides. It helps with her sensory issues, anxiety, social skills and gives her a great way to feel successful.

 

I will get you the resources we discussed in pm as soon as I can get in contact with my friend.

[Cindy in C-ville]

Thanks, Jennifer. Beyond Consequences is in my Amazon basket. Thanks for your encouragement that I'm on the right track, and I look forward to hearing from you about the resources you mentioned and recs from your friend!

[Guest submarines]

Sounds like a great immediate plan. My DD had a range of behavioral issues, but eliminating gluten and starting consistent sleep medication (melatonin and magnesium) led to dramatic changes.

 

When going GF, beware of hidden gluten--that was the most challenging for us.

 

Good luck to you and Katya!

[Twinmom]

Definitely keep reading through her whole series! Beyond Consequences is great, but she gets deeper as she goes. I found more help in books 2 and 3, personally!

[LMV]

Really, you all are amazing. So, here's our immediate plan:

 

1. Eliminate sugar, grains, and dairy. Leaky gut sounds like a strong possibility to me because of her nutritional deficiencies, lack of prenatal care, trauma, long-term stress, and her addiction to sugar, and anything "white."

 

We are by nature a pretty whole foods and home prepared kind of family and we avoid most artificial coloring, flavoring, etc because of this. Personally, I really haven't been impressed by the evidence behind the whole leaky gut syndrome, however, if dietary changes work for a particular child then I wouldn't criticize them either. I do think the key is to make sure that you aren't setting up possible new nutritional deficiencies with a more restrictive diet.

 

6. Get our family connected at Hope Reins - http://www.hopereinsraleigh.org.

We're such a horse family--my husband and I both rode before we married and his son and our oldest daughter are competitive equestrian eventers. Our foster daughter has been exposed to horses a lot because we are a horse family but she really isn't interested so we haven't pushed this. Having said that I would definitely let Katya give it a try and keep an open mind.

 

7. Continue to work on consistent parenting, no lecturing, not asking "Why?," structure, structure, structure.

I think structure is something all kids need to some extent. I think kids who are insecure, or emotionally younger than chronological peers probably need this more. We definitely saw this with our foster daughter.

 

8. Put her to bed positively and wake her up positively.

Our situation was a little different because our daughter was struggling with PTSD and had these horrible nightmares and night terrors. In spite of this she would go to sleep for us every night because we had this super consistent bedtime routine and one of us parents did put everything else on hold to put her to bed. After the PTSD was under better control in general this bedtime routine did seem to help to reduce the nightmares and she was able to do much more with self soothing. In the beginning this was just too overwhelming for her and one of us was getting up with her at night. We put an extra baby monitor in her room so we heard her at night and could get up with her. This may be something to consider. It may also work in place of a door alarm for your purposes.

 

9. Work on developing my personal support network.

10. Be sure that grandparents, Sunday school teachers, have enough information to provide structure, consistency, and supervision.

11. Keep her in my presence or Bill's presence as much as possible.

These all sound great (and important)!

 

Best wishes and let us know how things are going.

[Denise in IN]

I'm so glad you've gotten some great advice, just want to give you :grouphug: . I will be praying for you and your family as you work through these issues!

[Cindy in C-ville]

Definitely keep reading through her whole series! Beyond Consequences is great, but she gets deeper as she goes. I found more help in books 2 and 3, personally!

 

 

 

Okay. I wish they had them in the library!

[Cindy in C-ville]

I'm so glad you've gotten some great advice, just want to give you :grouphug: . I will be praying for you and your family as you work through these issues!

 

 

Denise! Thanks for your prayers and affirmation. If you have anything else to add, please speak up.

[Cindy in C-ville]

We are by nature a pretty whole foods and home prepared kind of family and we avoid most artificial coloring, flavoring, etc because of this. Personally, I really haven't been impressed by the evidence behind the whole leaky gut syndrome, however, if dietary changes work for a particular child then I wouldn't criticize them either. I do think the key is to make sure that you aren't setting up possible new nutritional deficiencies with a more restrictive diet.

 

Good advice. This is the way we generally eat as well, but Katya doesn't "get it." The others will self-regulate if we are in an environment where sweets are offered, but Katya will take any sweets offered. And, she'll hoard and hide them. So, I'm looking at this as an opportunity to teach her about nutrition and possibly get some benefit out of it.

 

 

We're such a horse family--my husband and I both rode before we married and his son and our oldest daughter are competitive equestrian eventers. Our foster daughter has been exposed to horses a lot because we are a horse family but she really isn't interested so we haven't pushed this. Having said that I would definitely let Katya give it a try and keep an open mind.

 

We're going out on Saturday as a family to tour the farm. We'll see how it goes and go from there.

 

 

I think structure is something all kids need to some extent. I think kids who are insecure, or emotionally younger than chronological peers probably need this more. We definitely saw this with our foster daughter.

 

I do too. I see the others being able to institute structure in their own days and Katya needs me to provide her with the structure

 

 

Our situation was a little different because our daughter was struggling with PTSD and had these horrible nightmares and night terrors. In spite of this she would go to sleep for us every night because we had this super consistent bedtime routine and one of us parents did put everything else on hold to put her to bed. After the PTSD was under better control in general this bedtime routine did seem to help to reduce the nightmares and she was able to do much more with self soothing. In the beginning this was just too overwhelming for her and one of us was getting up with her at night. We put an extra baby monitor in her room so we heard her at night and could get up with her. This may be something to consider. It may also work in place of a door alarm for your purposes.

 

You are a trooper! I don't think I could sleep with a baby monitor in my room. I like the idea of putting some kind of a toy on the door that makes a noise if she comes out. Last night I just connected the door frame and door with tape that would tear if opened so that I could tell if she came out. She didn't last night. While I feel better about being able to know whether or not she left her room at night, I would feel better if I'm able to get up and intervene when it happens.

 

 

These all sound great (and important)!

 

Best wishes and let us know how things are going.

 

Thanks so much for sharing your experience and offering input!!!

[LizzyBee]

 

Thanks so much for sharing your experience and offering input!!!

 

 

I sent you a PM with the name of my friend's therapist; just wanted to let you know to look for it if you haven't seen it yet.

[Cindy in C-ville]

 

I sent you a PM with the name of my friend's therapist; just wanted to let you know to look for it if you haven't seen it yet.

 

 

 

Thanks so much! I'll be working on putting the pieces together over these next weeks. SO thankful for the support!

[Ottakee]

Sounds like you have a great plan on action.

 

You might also want to look at a high quality fish oil. We use Country Life Omega 3 mood as it has high EPA:DHA ratio. They can help with mood, etc. Also, kids with fetal alcohol tend to have less healthy fats in their brains.

[Tammyla]

:grouphug: (((Cindy))) I remember following your journey to adopt her. No advice, but I'll send prayers your way.

[besroma]

I sent you a pm also. Hope you get it. :grouphug:

[Twinmom]

I second the Omega 3s!! We use them with all four of our kiddos and over time, it has made a difference. We use Nordic Naturals.

[Cindy in C-ville]

Sounds like you have a great plan on action.

 

You might also want to look at a high quality fish oil. We use Country Life Omega 3 mood as it has high EPA:DHA ratio. They can help with mood, etc. Also, kids with fetal alcohol tend to have less healthy fats in their brains.

 

 

Started Omega Brite liquid two nights ago. If they are going to be effective, how quickly should I see a difference?

[Clarkd]

http://dolltv5.amazonwebstore.com/Swinging-Monkey-RainbowTye-Dye-Motion-Activated/M/B000VQ9EJG.htm

This is the only pic I could find of th door ,onkey we used as an alarm. I'm guessing they no longer make this item. Sorry.

[kubiac]

 

 

Started Omega Brite liquid two nights ago. If they are going to be effective, how quickly should I see a difference?

 

 

Not an expert on anything related to sleep disorders or RAD, but for general brain health, I would say give it 6-12 weeks. In the meantime, you might notice benefits like smoother skin! (BTW, consider me another vote for Nordic Naturals brand.)

[Dandelion]

 

 

 

Started Omega Brite liquid two nights ago. If they are going to be effective, how quickly should I see a difference?

 

Give it several weeks. One thing to note about Omega-3's is that they can interfere with sleep if given in the evening. They don't affect my sleep, but they do for DS9, so he takes his in the morning.

[celticmom]

I do not have any experience with adoption or foster parenting, but my dd had numerous odd behaviors that either ended or dramatically improved after removing gluten from her diet.

[Clarkd]

http://dolltv5.amazonwebstore.com/Swinging-Monkey-RainbowTye-Dye-Motion-Activated/M/B000VQ9EJG.htm

I posted yesterday, but my posts all seem to have gone away. This is a pic of the monkey. I am sorry to report it is all I found and I assume they are no longer available. So sorry.

[Ottakee]

 

 

Started Omega Brite liquid two nights ago. If they are going to be effective, how quickly should I see a difference?

 

Well, we can tell if dh misses his for more than 2 days but I would suspect about 6-8 weeks as it is a supplement, not a medication. Make sure she is getting enough to get 1000mg of EPA (not just total fish oil) a day. Also, it can cause loose stools so if that happens just back down a bit and go up more slowly.

 

Do you think there might a mood disorder or fetal alcohol at play here as well as the attachment issues?

[LMV]

 

Thanks so much for sharing your experience and offering input!!!

 

 

We've learned a lot from other parents so I feel like if we can pass some of the information forward that is what we're meant to do. Of course, each child is special and unique and different approaches work with different kids. So, take, use, and pass on what is helpful to you/Katya. Hugs.

[Reya]

I would echo following up on the physical FIRST. Sleep disturbances often contribute to emotional disturbances rather than vice versa in children. (In adults, the reverse is more often true.)

[Katy]

I would be careful with the melatonin. If it hasn't made a huge difference already it won't help and might actually harm her. I can't recall all the details but there was a doctor on Dr Oz in the past couple months with the warning that it might be more dangerous than previously thought.

 

I second the Omega 3's, but I would give them in the morning to prevent heartburn issues. Also, my entire family has issues with onions - they are delicious, but in small quantities cause heartburn and in large ones major stomach issues - vomiting & diarrhea. Unfortunately DH has this problem too, which he didn't realize until I pointed it out when we were dating.

 

Exercise, like 3 hours of active time per day might help too. Running around playing freeze tag in the park, or flag football, or something equally challenging. Even if it's just walking outside with you for 3 hours a day (morning, lunch, and evening), could make a HUGE difference in her endorphin and vitamin D levels and overall sense of happiness. Try to take some photos of her having a wonderful time.

 

Then give her an album with pictures both of her Grandmother AND of her with your family. It doesn't have to be expensive, one of those 99 cent acrylic snapshot albums that holds 20 photos should be fine. Or maybe just print some photos out from your computer and hang them in her room. I would insist on her hanging at least an equal amount of pictures of her with your family though. Just so that symbolically it's not giving up her grandmother, but it's gaining a bunch more people who love her. Add more photos as you can, of her having a great time with you. New memories to cherish equally with the old.

 

One more idea: If you didn't have this when you adopted her, could you have a sand or candle or flower or some sort of ceremony to symbolically make her part of the family? A friend with a difficult stepchild did this. Well, first the child's parents had a sort of we're divorced but we promise to still honor each other as the parents of this child ceremony, and the new stepmother also made some promises about always honoring the child and her mother. It was sweet, and their relationship was easier after that.

[Liz CA]

Why would anyone go anywhere else for advice? I really am so appreciative and so thankful for all the hugs and prayers as well as advice.

 

One of the realities we've faced since we brought Katya home is a drastic reduction in income. Without going in to all the details, we are the classic case of not being financially better off now than we were four years ago. Job loss, no health insurance, short sell of our house, etc. As a result ... no therapy. None. Financially, we're doing a bit better now, but we still haven't financially recovered and don't have the finances to do what I'm afraid we need to do. We still don't have health insurance. As you can imagine, this is a huge stress.

 

I SO wish this wasn't a factor, but it is. So, help me prioritize.

 

From what many of you are saying, and what I'm sensing, the first thing, ideally, would be to find a therapist who specializes in attachment issues. Set up a consultation and see if we can swing the finances, if the therapist will work with us, etc. I think I also need some kind of a support group in my area (central NC). I've looked online, but haven't been able to find one.

 

If this is the right path, then how in the world do I go about finding a therapist? What questions do I ask? How do I talk about the finances? Up until now we have had no need for any type of specialists for ourselves or our kids, so this is uncharted water.

 

And, do you have any suggestions for how to find a support group?

 

Regarding the tackling it from every angle at the same time, I understand that. But the thought of it truly overwhelms me.

 

I have been looking at links, and will continue to do so.

 

What else am I missing? Other thoughts?

 

I cannot tell you how thankful I am for this "alongside community!"

 

 

 

Check with your church if they have a licensed therapist on staff. Around here this is not uncommon. They often work on a sliding scale, a percentage of your income.

The things you described sound like defense mechanisms. She had so much trauma in her life, she is protecting herself. The mind has not realized yet that she is in a safe environment and needn't do this. This is deeply entrenched behavior that was once necessary to her emotional survival. It is not a reflection on you as parents or an opposition or rebellion. Second all the RAD posts by others.

Don't give up on a therapist because of funds. Will pray for you to be led to the right person.

[freeindeed]

Hugs to you. It sounds like RAD. You've been given some very good advice. Adoption is a blessing, which has also graced my family; but we've had many unforeseen difficulties with our little one as well. I hope things will be resolved and healed for your precious child and your family soon.

[QuirkyKapers]

Sounds like you have a good plan. :grouphug: :grouphug: as you figure this out.