Zero, and I mean 0 Carb & Zero Sugar living..help/advice?

[Bang!Zoom!]

Long story short, that's the way it's going to be for a while..the glucose testing over the last week is showing extreme sensitivity to carbs and sugar for Prince Charming.

 

I know I have a lot to learn about lowering carbs and how to eat this way, it's driving me crazy...so...is there any particular diets/titles anyone has heard of that feature zero carb with zero sugar (or as close to real to that as you can get?)

 

Any books, ideas..whatever ya wanna throw out there...

 

One more question, any idea on how to manage the symptoms of hunger that go with zero carb diets? Seems to be a pretty heavy complaint, what counteracts that sensation?

 

I thought we were going to be able to manage with about 60 carb total during the day, but if that monitor is right..that's not gonna be realistic for the spikes he's recording.

[Oakblossoms]

Is he is exercising at all? Is he eating a lot of fat? Is he eating salads prior to lunch and dinner?

[Stacy in NJ]

A zero or nearly zero carb diet is called ketogenic. Google it and you'll find tons of info. The Atkins diet which is ketogenic in the early stage allows for 20 carbs daily.

 

ETA: Because a ketogentic diet doesn't produce insulin in the body and instead produces leptin hunger usually isn't much of an issue. Cravings for sugar are common in the first couple weeks but typically diminish if carb intake is kept low. Leptin acts as an appetite suppressant in the brain.

Edited November 11, 2012 by Stacy in NJ

[Bang!Zoom!]

His workday is difficult, spans about 14 hours, sedentary work. I keep threatening to get a poodle to make him go for a walk, I claim I will dye it pink, dress it in a rhinestone collar and name it Fifi with a diamond look leash...lol..

 

This is my sweet way of trying to encourage him "or else.." - I really think the exercise issue is going to be addressed by the MD next...he'll listen to someone like that though..so hopeful...

 

Salads, yep. Snacks, have it on a stopwatch actually. Lean meats only (bonus note, he scored a kitchen aid for me yesterday) - all meals are on the clock strict, very routine and counted within a gram of their life...

 

Tonight though, Mr. Wonderful had a hamburger bun and whazoo, testing came back at not okay levels, may be the first one he's had in a month?

 

He says he feels exactly the same physically/mentally at all stages of readings...doesn't matter if it's sky high or within near normal range...so there's no way to gauge other than recording every bite and watching for reactions. Refined flours are definitely out for the rest of his life. No more homemade bread from mama.. :(

 

Everything I read has a contradictory statement to it - but he seems to be determined to zero out the carbs completely and go to zero sugar to see what the next level is off of that.

 

I don't know if this is wise or not. We are a week out from his next visit with the Doctor - I think this might just be another learning curve on the road, so asking for advice.

[Alenee]

I would start with Atkins and make sure he's getting enough fat in his diet. Come on over to the LCHF social group. http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/group.php?groupid=179

Stacy in WA has tons of info!

[Alenee]

If you're willing to share, I'm curious what your dh's numbers are. I just had an initial test done and I'd had jumped nearly 40 points.

[Stacy in NJ]

His workday is difficult, spans about 14 hours, sedentary work. I keep threatening to get a poodle to make him go for a walk, I claim I will dye it pink, dress it in a rhinestone collar and name it Fifi with a diamond look leash...lol..

 

This is my sweet way of trying to encourage him "or else.." - I really think the exercise issue is going to be addressed by the MD next...he'll listen to someone like that though..so hopeful...

 

Salads, yep. Snacks, have it on a stopwatch actually. Lean meats only (bonus note, he scored a kitchen aid for me yesterday) - all meals are on the clock strict, very routine and counted within a gram of their life...

 

Tonight though, Mr. Wonderful had a hamburger bun and whazoo, testing came back at not okay levels, may be the first one he's had in a month?

 

He says he feels exactly the same physically/mentally at all stages of readings...doesn't matter if it's sky high or within near normal range...so there's no way to gauge other than recording every bite and watching for reactions. Refined flours are definitely out for the rest of his life. No more homemade bread from mama.. :(

 

Everything I read has a contradictory statement to it - but he seems to be determined to zero out the carbs completely and go to zero sugar to see what the next level is off of that.

 

I don't know if this is wise or not. We are a week out from his next visit with the Doctor - I think this might just be another learning curve on the road, so asking for advice.

 

I just want to mention that with a keto diet he should try to eat fatty proteins, not lean ones. Saturated fats and olive and coconut oil are the healthiest forms of fat.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I take cinnamon capsules (250 mg) with every meal. It makes a big difference in my blood sugar levels.

[Bang!Zoom!]

I don't know if the numbers would mean anything Alenee, just due to body mass/medication routine, stuff like that..

 

But I can tell you that one hamburger bun shot up his levels by 80 points, that was just not cool. That was one unhappy dude.

 

When he was diagnosed about a month ago, he was hitting upwards towards 270 fasting, that's about 130 points higher than is okay for that time of day.

 

This is one very determined man, when he says "do not feed me any carb or sugar" - he means it. So I'm really needing some guidance...I'm gladly figuring it out to be supportive, but yow, it's gonna be a long week you know?

[Bang!Zoom!]

Jean, I've seen the Cinnamon capsules over at Walgreens next to all the meters & supplies.

 

I'm gonna haul him off tomorrow and get some of those, it's not the first time I've run across that as a helpful thing to do. My box of vitamins and things are shipping still also, we haven't a single jar of anything here.

 

I'm thinking some B12 would be really helpful as well, just for the fatigue issue alone.

 

Stacey, thanks for the advice on saturated fat vs. lean. I think I've gotten that backwards trying to help with cholesterol control.

 

Shopping list:

 

Cinnamon, B12, Coconut Oil

Edited November 11, 2012 by one*mom

[Mrs Mungo]

I think you guys should take a diabetes for newbs class; they are offered at most hospitals, some community centers, etc.

[Ali in OR]

The idea of zero carbs (which I don't think is completely possible) scares me a bit. My seizure kid was on the ketogenic diet for three years. It was 12 years ago now, so I don't remember all of the details, but she was closely monitored by her doctor while on the diet due to its inherent risks. I remember her cholesterol was high, she had to take calcium supplements, she was on milk of magnesia for bowel irregularity, etc. Three years was about as long as the doctor wanted her on the diet--I remember him saying it's not something you can do indefinitely. Go ahead and cut bread, sugar, etc, but talk to your doctor before you even think about trying to eliminate all carbs.

[Halftime Hope]

He shouldn't need to do zero carbs. The very best diet we've found is Dr. Bernstein's Diet Solution, with that we do about 24 carb grams a day of veggies, salad, nuts, and lower carb fruits (especially berries) when on really strict to lost weight, and 30 to 36 carb grams per day to add more veggies when on a maintenance plan.

 

If he lives this way for a couple of weeks, his insulin resistance will plummet. : )

 

He should be getting plenty of good fats, not eating leaner than Jack Sprat. Those help with satiety.

 

On Dr bernstien's website there is also ar article about helping diabetics get unstuck when their brain's needs are making appetite is so difficult. He uses different supplements and meds in a rotation so that the brain doesn't get used to a specific item but will always feel "full."

 

Let me know if you have other specific questions. : ) I can try to help, as we've worn a path around this block.

[Bang!Zoom!]

Those are all very good ideas also; he's going to have to do something with me as far as a class or something is concerned...because if he doesn't, he's not going to get fed, lol.

 

I'm off reading the group right now, good stuff there. I think I might have some 1970 brain cells about high cholesterol levels and avoiding fat mucking up my thinking...you know, everything needs to be lean and fat-free...

 

I understood the principal behind Atkins- I think in my lifetime I've done that twice actually and it was helpful (but for me personally, juicing is really more effective fruits) - and I'm not a big fan of red meat for myself...

 

Be real, am I going to be sneaking food I love and he can't have? I'm finding a bit of conflict here, trying to accommodate him specifically - and our eating styles are going to be totally opposite.

 

What do I do? I don't want to offend with lemons, apples, grapefruits and celery around the house - but honestly, all the foods his diets call for make me a slug and a half, I really don't want to join in.

 

Advice on two styles of food in the house? How do you incorporate the social aspect of dinner if you aren't eating the same? Is that really weird at times?

[Jean in Newcastle]

What kinds of numbers are we actually talking about here?

 

What are his fasting blood sugars?

 

What are his 2 hour post prandial numbers following each meal?

 

I've personally found that I can handle some grains (I like to call them that instead of carbs since carbs are in fruits and veggies too) at breakfast. So I allow myself some then along with protein and 4 oz. of a green smoothie at breakfast. I take cinnamon then too but even without the cinnamon my numbers are good. I take the cinnamon because it makes my numbers even better and sets me up better for lunch.

 

At lunch I cannot handle any grains at all. I have a salad with protein and fats (dressing or avocado). I still take cinnamon.

 

Afternoon snack - I can handle a very small amount of grains or no grains at all. Hummus and veggies are a good snack. Or some trail mix.

 

Dinner - I can handle about 30 g. of grains along with veggies and protein. Again, I take cinnamon. I also exercise hard for 1 hour about 45 min. after dinner.

 

Post exercise snack - some eggs.

[LostSurprise]

There is no such thing as a 0 carb diet without cutting out all grains, sugars, fruits AND vegetables. Only pure fats and meat have no carbs.

 

What you can do is modify his diet for eating lower carb vegetables (or fruits), combined with meat, and a significant amount of fat. When you eat minimal carbs you need a lot of fat. The body normally burns carbs for energy. When they are minimized (lower than 30g per day for instance) the body can burn fat instead. This is known as ketosis. The first few days may be rough, but when the body is in ketosis you don't feel hungry. The body naturally dampens the feeling of hunger.

 

If he is diabetic he should get training in dealing with his illness. Please don't put that off. That may mean medication and diet control. Until that all happens the first stage of the Atkins diet (fat, meat, non starchy vegetables) should be helpful. Information on carbs and carb loads (not just how many carbs a food has but the impact of that carb) should also be included in his training (and yours).

 

As far as family dealing with things, it can be hard, but often its better to minimize forbidden foods in the early stages of starting a necessary diet. When my son started the Ketogenic Diet (high fat, minimal protein and carb) I didn't buy bread (his trigger food) or sweets for over six months. We didn't match his food, but we did try to make it easier for him. Changes can be hard on everyone, but they're hardest on the one who has to make the change. I usually tried to have at least one food we could share at meals and those not on the diet sometimes had special treats at private times.

Edited November 11, 2012 by LostSurprise

[Susan C.]

Ideas:

Let him have the burger, just no bun, put salsa and cheese on it.

 

Meat and salad, meat and salad, rinse, repeat. Cheese, bacon, eggs, nuts, sugar free natural peanut butter, plain Greek yogurt, avocado.

 

Print out a glycemic index chart so you can stay with very low glycemic foods. I like Nutiva Coconut oil.

[LostSurprise]

These are good ideas, but be aware that peanuts and dairy tend to have more carbs. Maybe not too many for his purposes, but he should be aware and keep them spaced out or minimized until he knows his limits.

 

At first, I found it helpful to measure servings as the labels recommend and record the fats, proteins, and carbs my son was taking in. It can be very revealing, especially if he measures his blood sugar or just feels 'off' later.

[Mama Geek]

Do be careful with the low glycemic index foods, they do have things like beans that have carbs, but are mostly from fiber.

 

Dh has celiac and dd and I still eat some gluten, but we also eat the main meals being what he is eating. You and he will just have to come to accept that you can eat some things that he can't. It will be ok. It is much harder how much socialization revolves around food. When you aren't the one cooking there is no way of guaranteeing that your diet needs will really be met.

[Lolly]

My dh pretty much eats only protein. He will toss a fruit in now and then. Or, a green bean. He eats any and all meat. Doesn't worry about fat content AT ALL. He eats a lot of high fat meats. Hunger isn't a problem. He doesn't like fruits and vegetables. They taste awful to him. He is exceptionally healthy on this diet, which defies all logic to me. Seems like he would need vitamins and minerals from other foods; but nope, he's perfect in health and levels. Honestly, I do not understand it.

[GSOchristie]

We have been doing Atkins induction phase for 5 months, and by we, I mean my dh has actually done it and I do it sometimes, because I suck. He has lost 36 pounds in five months. I have lost 10, because again, I suck. We eat eggs and bacon or sausage for breakfast every morning. Lunch: chicken salad on avocado half, pimento cheese on cucumbers, egg salad on celery, tuna salad wrapped in butter lettuce, grilled chicken salad, grilled chicken Caesar salad, chef salad, grilled chicken spinach salad with warm bacon vinaigrette. Dinners are usually grilled meat of some kind and two vegetable sides, if we didn't have salad for lunch, we have it for dinner. I go on low carb friends if I'm getting bored with dinner and search for recipes, I've liked eggplant Parmesan and shrimp scampi, particularly.

[Julie Smith]

 

Advice on two styles of food in the house? How do you incorporate the social aspect of dinner if you aren't eating the same? Is that really weird at times?

 

One thing we have done is eat the food dh shouldn't have when he is at work. so our lunch will be full of carbs and fatty food. In the past we might even have something off limits to him as a snack before he gets home.

[Soror]

As to the satiety issue that is probably due to the low fat. I think this was mentioned up thread but doing low carb and low fat is very difficult to do.

[Ottakee]

I agree that this diet needs to be monitored by his doctor. Is he on any medication? That might be needed, at least for now?

 

There are some people that seem to have a combination of Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes---not purely either one but no matter how much exercise they get or how great their diet is they NEED insulin as well.

 

Please don't try to do a rash diet unless under direct medical supervision. When we discussed a very low carb, almost ketogenic diet for my daughter it would have meant a few days in the hospital with very close monitoring......not something you can do at home.

 

My dh has lost weight and is feeling much better on his meds. He isn't super great with his diet but his numbers are looking much better.

[LizzyBee]

You could look at Whole30 here: http://whole9life.com/2012/08/the-whole30-program/

You can print the short, succinct version free; just scroll down to find the pdf link. Then if you want more details about how and why Paleo works for various health conditions, you can buy the book; but it's very doable without the book. The forums on the website are also free.

 

Whole30 is:

Meat, seafood, eggs

Lots of veggies

Some fruit (probably not for your dh!)

Healthy fats including olive oil, coconut oil, nuts and seeds, avocado

 

Not allowed are:

Dairy

Any added sugar or artificial sweetener in any form (granulated, brown, honey, molasses, syrup)

Grains

Legumes (including soy, peanuts, and peanut butter)

MSG

Sulfites

 

After a week of Whole30, I started cheating and immediately could tell the difference. Whole30 is supposed to be a 30 day re-set, after which most people eat about 80% paleo. I think I will have to do 100% paleo for life simply because I have more energy, less brain fog, fewer sleep issues, and less digestive upset when doing it cheat-free. As a bonus, I dropped 5 pounds in a week without even trying.

 

Paleo is easier than I thought it would be because it really is about eating whole, healthy foods. Practical Paleo and Everyday Paleo are good books that I checked out from the library and now plan to buy.

 

I agree with the previous poster who said that if you drastically reduce carbs, you have to replace them with fat. But use healthy, whole food fats rather than highly processed fats. Also, veggies have carbs, but they're healthy carbs that won't spike one's blood sugar. Fruits are healthy carbs too, but it sounds like they will need to be off limits either temporarily or permanently because of the sugar content.

 

I also agree that whatever you do, do it with the doctor's supervision. OTOH, don't buy into the idea that the conventional guidelines are necessarily best.

Edited November 11, 2012 by LizzyBee

[Michelle in AL]

A zero or really low carb diet is very stressful on the kidneys. Kidneys are one thing you want to protect dearly with diabetes in order to prevent diabetic nephropathy. I would switch to truly complex carbs instead. The diabetic diet that is recommended now is mostly complex carbs.

 

The Fresh 20 recipes and menus use only complex carbs and are wonderful tasting to me.

[Susan in TX]

If you want to successfully eat a very low carb or no carb diet, you need lots of fat and protein in the diet to make up for the carbs. Bacon is your friend. So is butter. You need to clear your brain of the mantra that fat is bad. Low fat diets are, by necessity, high carb diets and carbs are not good for you even if they are complex carbs. The body turns all carbohydrates into sugar. It doesn't matter if the carbohydrate comes from the sugar in a candy bar or a piece of whole wheat bread, it is still sugar.

 

So when planning meals, make meat the main part of the meal. Then add vegetables. Stay away from starchy vegetables like potatos and carrots. We eat hambugers without the bun. We put the hambuger on a bed of salad greens, add ketchup etc. and eat it with a fork. You can also top it with bacon and cheese. We have salads with shrimp, chicken, or sometimes smoked salmon. We eat lots of spinach.

 

For me, the hardest part of a low carb or no carb diet is breakfast. Pretty much there's eggs, eggs, and more eggs. But one could eat other meats for breakfast like a thick slice of ham or something. I'm just not used to thinking that way and I really like to eat sweet things for breakfast.

 

Yogurt is good too but make sure it's the full fat kind. Berries are very low carb so you might be able to eat berries and yogurt too.

 

Susan in TX

[WIS0320]

The Dukan Diet is another one to look into if you are looking for recipes that are no-carb.

 

I think you'd have to be monitored by a doctor to go zero carb as that would be murder on your kidneys and that would have to be watched. I'd drink a ton, ton of water and only do zero carbs for a very short amount of time, like no more than a week and then try and add in some veggies at the very least.

[Bang!Zoom!]

His lucky number is 166. This has shown up in a pattern after dinner (2 hours) - and morning is a little higher at 190 yesterday; that was pretty frustrating for him.

 

His doctor would like to see him at 70 fasting in the morning, and 140 after eating at night.

 

So you can see there's a lot of work to do. He's taking metroformin now, and that's has seemed to help as his initial numbers were headed toward 300.

 

I'm writing down all the recommendations upthread and using those for shopping tonight.

[Michelle in AL]

166 isn't bad, I think the ADA wants 2 hr post sugars to be <170. Sounds like your doctor is being pretty stringent. Fasting glucoses should be <120.

 

He may need an increase in metformin and DAILY physical exercise more than a radical diet.

 

General weight loss IF needed will help most of all.

[Stacy in NJ]

Those are all very good ideas also; he's going to have to do something with me as far as a class or something is concerned...because if he doesn't, he's not going to get fed, lol.

 

I'm off reading the group right now, good stuff there. I think I might have some 1970 brain cells about high cholesterol levels and avoiding fat mucking up my thinking...you know, everything needs to be lean and fat-free...

 

I understood the principal behind Atkins- I think in my lifetime I've done that twice actually and it was helpful (but for me personally, juicing is really more effective fruits) - and I'm not a big fan of red meat for myself...

 

Be real, am I going to be sneaking food I love and he can't have? I'm finding a bit of conflict here, trying to accommodate him specifically - and our eating styles are going to be totally opposite.

 

What do I do? I don't want to offend with lemons, apples, grapefruits and celery around the house - but honestly, all the foods his diets call for make me a slug and a half, I really don't want to join in.

 

Advice on two styles of food in the house? How do you incorporate the social aspect of dinner if you aren't eating the same? Is that really weird at times?

 

It is super hard to get the brain around the concept that high saturated fat foods are actually good for your health.

 

Here's a super interesting vid by Dr. Don Miller that explains the evolution of medical thinking on this.

[LizzyBee]

His lucky number is 166. This has shown up in a pattern after dinner (2 hours) - and morning is a little higher at 190 yesterday; that was pretty frustrating for him.

 

His doctor would like to see him at 70 fasting in the morning, and 140 after eating at night.

 

So you can see there's a lot of work to do. He's taking metroformin now, and that's has seemed to help as his initial numbers were headed toward 300.

 

I'm writing down all the recommendations upthread and using those for shopping tonight.

 

For adding exercise... I also have a desk job, and during tax season, I am at the office sometimes 12-18 hours/day. But studies have shown that 10 min 3x day can be just as effective as 30 min once a day. Can he set a timer to take 3 10-minute breaks to go for a walk around the block or walk up and down the stairs a few times? Doing some stretches and lunges in his office would also be easy and helpful. I know it's easier said than done, but when I make myself get up and move, it clears my mind and I am more productive, besides the other benefits of exercise. It would at least be a start until he can figure out how to fit in a longer cardio-intensive workout.

 

If he watches the Biggest Loser, lots of their moves can be easily adapted to a 5-10 minute office workout and they work multiple muscle groups.

Edited November 11, 2012 by LizzyBee

[justamouse]

As you cut out the carbs/sugar, also up the good fats, butter, evoo, protien fats in a goos steak--the hunger will go away. HOWEVER, the sugar cravings will get intense there for a few days to a week. It's a HARD hurdle to overcome.

 

He also HAS to eat at the least every five hours.

 

For a diabetic, the isulin response is screwed up because the hormones are screwed up. So what happens is when a diabetic is hungry, the liver throws out glucagon to feed itself --and that raises the blood sugar. It's why a fasting (morning) meter reading will be high.

 

So, what you have to do is preempt the liver throwing out the glucagon. It's why he HAS to eat, every three to five hours.

 

HE has to eat right before he goes to bed. If he wakes up in the night, he has to eat. First thing in the morning he has to eat. That will start to stabilize the blood sugar.

 

A great book on it is THe Diabetes Miracle. It's written by a nutritionist who worked in a diabetes clinic for 30 years--and then SHE got type 2 (and, eating within the parameters set about by the American Diabetes Association, and she gets into that in the book). And how she cured herself.

 

Cure meaning she was able to stop all drugs, but forever will have to eat within the guidelines she sets forth in the book.

 

It's helped me a lot, because though I dropped a ton of weight on HFLC diet, and though I haven't had a blood sugar crash in months, my fasting sugar was 147--WAY over the qualifies as a diabetic mark.

 

Since I started eating HFLC along with the rules of the Diabetes Miracle, my fasting sugar hasn't gone above 90. Now, if I could get it down to the 50s (Nutritional Ketosis) I would be ecstatic.

Edited November 11, 2012 by justamouse

[justamouse]

It is super hard to get the brain around the concept that high saturated fat foods are actually good for your health.

 

Here's a super interesting vid by Dr. Don Miller that explains the evolution of medical thinking on this.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I can't agree enough. We *really* were programmed by that. :grouphug:

[freesia]

Ideas:

Let him have the burger, just no bun, put salsa and cheese on it.

 

Meat and salad, meat and salad, rinse, repeat. Cheese, bacon, eggs, nuts, sugar free natural peanut butter, plain Greek yogurt, avocado.

 

Print out a glycemic index chart so you can stay with very low glycemic foods. I like Nutiva Coconut oil.

Yes, this. I have to limit carbs at meals. A hamburger bun would definitely shoot my sugars up. Everyone reacts differently. What makes someone's sugars shoot up does not make other folks'. He should test after each meal, trying different things.

 

I make things where I can choose not to have the grain. I don't do any casseroles that mix grain and carb. If I do a higher carb meal I have a small bit, a large salad and nuts. Sometimes I'll have leftover meat. It becomes easier.

[WIS0320]

Have you seen the 30 Day Raw movie? All the participants had huge improvement in their health, including those with Type 2 diabetes. That might be a path to explore to as it is probably better overall for longterm health. I think high protein is good but the idea that one would exclude veggies because of the carbs is kind of unsettling to me! :)

 

 

Reversing Diabetes in 30 Days

[4ofus]

http://www.amazon.com/30-Day-Diabetes-Miracle-Cookbook-Follow/dp/0399534210

 

I love this book. We aren't diabetic here, but I feel my best when I avoid grains. The thing I love about this book is it's all about real foods, not processed carb/sugar-substitutes. It's just "nope, can't have 'em." I like it.

 

Good luck to you & your dh.

[Bang!Zoom!]

He wants to check with his doctor first before he'll take the cinnamon, wouldn't get any B12 either.

 

Grocery store was a semi-flop. Sunday is not the day to go store exploring here apparently. Every kid in the county, hopped up on pancake breakfasts after church. Think four year olds in charge of a full-size loaded shopping cart pretending they are in Nascar races...lol..with the moms correcting them as needed. Between that and the amigos zipping around, I 'bout lost my mind. Butchers weren't super friendly about wanting to talk about their sausage skills either. (lol, I know, I know) - but seriously, I'd like to make good use of this kitchen aid grinder and make some up here at home, so I threw in some marinade on a sirloin and threw it in the freezer after a bit...I'll grind it later and see what happens.

 

He's had 2 carbs today total. Ugh. We'll see how things are at 7 p.m. This was a really unpleasant day.

 

I'm going to have to set him up something on his nightstand for the snack at night issue- that note about the high morning sugar really makes a lot of sense for a stressed system.