s/o tomato staking

[Bluegoat]

Am I the only one who doesn't think "tomato-staking" teens who are having difficulty is something to recommend generally?

 

I can see why it might work for some kids, but when I think of myself as a teen (and a child, and an adult) I can't really concieve of a better method for driving a wedge between myself and my parents (whom I generally liked and listened to pretty well.)

[Caitilin]

Me! I think it's a great technique for toddlers, preschoolers, littles generally. Older kids? Umm, not so much. The keeping busy part would be OK, but I don't think Theresa of it would work for preteen/teen kids.

[Mandylubug]

well, my kids aren't teenagers but I did get in some major trouble at the age of 14. I was tomato-staked to my parents and close family members only in addition to having weekly counseling sessions for a year. I gradually earned my freedom with other people that my parents trusted and eventually my parents trusted me to be honest. I wholeheartedly believe it was the best thing my parents could have done for me. I lost their trust and didn't deserve space. It was a time in my life that I needed firm, stern guidance.

[ktgrok]

Am I the only one who doesn't think "tomato-staking" teens who are having difficulty is something to recommend generally?

 

I can see why it might work for some kids, but when I think of myself as a teen (and a child, and an adult) I can't really concieve of a better method for driving a wedge between myself and my parents (whom I generally liked and listened to pretty well.)

 

I've seen it work wonders for my 13 year old. The idea isn't to make it punishment. It is to re-socialize them to the norms of your family, your culture. When you spend too much time as a teen around other teens you start to get a group think...to take on their ideals. Spending more time with adults helps to foster adult values.

 

I don't think it has to be with mom cleaning the house. But it needs to be with an adult, and it needs to be doing something responsible or important a good part of the time. Some of it can be just hanging out, but a large part should be focused on others, not self. Volunteer work would also fall into this category.

 

I can always tell when my son isn't getting enough time with family/adults by his attitude. A few days with me, or even better, with Grandma, totally turns that around.

[FiveOaksAcademy]

:)

Edited June 20, 2012 by FiveOaksAcademy

[ChristyB in TN]

It worked for one of mine. At 15 she decided that her new friends and her public high school were the "real world" and our cozy little home was not. She got a little off track...we had some issues...I lost my mind one night after a particularly disturbing confrontation with her. I went to her room where there really was nothing left because I had already taken it all and told her, "Congratulations! You just won the opportunity to enjoy the real world with me!" She home schooled again starting the very next morning and got to accompany me to work every day, sit at my desk and learn what reality actually is: it is working, sacrificing, learning, giving, being the best person you can be so others will want to do business with you, being honest ALL THE TIME, laughing with other people, forgiving other people and yourself, working with people from different cultures, backgrounds, belief systems, and perspectives, and thinking about someone other than yourself. We didn't act as if we were angry with her after that night, we just made her part of our every moment of every day. I even paid her to answer the phone in the afternoons.

It worked. She grew and learned how crazy that period of her life had been. She talks occassionally about it and how crazy it is that people in institutions think it is anything like the real world. My world is the real world an it is hard and wonderful. :D

Now she is thriving and in college, free of disruptive friends and happy to have a meaningful yoga practice and classes she loves. Tomato staking can work for any age.

[Ghee]

It is all that works for my 13 year old. He is immature and insecure, which leads him to be a follower with kids his age. If he's going to be a sheep, I want to know the shepard has his best interest at heart. I tried to give him the tools to be independent, but he is jot ready to use them. For now, he's at my side.

[Ellie]

Two of my friends tomato-staked their teens. It was painful for everyone involved, but eventually, they saw wonderful improvements in their dc's behavior and attitudes.

[Juniper]

My mom tried it with me and it went horribly wrong. It really has to depend on the teen, the problem is that if you do it to the wrong kid the rift is severe and creates all kinds of spin off problems.

 

Consequences with space from EVERYONE, including her would have been vastly better.

 

I guess what I am saying is that there needs to be a combination of quality time close to a parent (like gardening, or cleaning a basement), without being badgered about the misdeeds. And alone time, as well as time away with a trusted adult or counselor.

[Mandylubug]

My mom tried it with me and it went horribly wrong. It really has to depend on the teen, the problem is that if you do it to the wrong kid the rift is severe and creates all kinds of spin off problems.

 

Consequences with space from EVERYONE, including her would have been vastly better.

 

I guess what I am saying is that there needs to be a combination of quality time close to a parent (like gardening, or cleaning a basement), without being badgered about the misdeeds. And alone time, as well as time away with a trusted adult or counselor.

 

absolutely agree. My parents tomato-staked me to themselves, our youth leader at church or my cousin and her parents. There was plenty of "space" but it was dictated and controlled space. I also attended the counseling sessions that allowed me freedom to speak my mind without punishment.

[regentrude]

I find it a great tool. We consider freedom and independence a privilege that a teenager can earn when he/she has shown responsible. And in reverse, if the teen can not use his freedom wisely, he will lose part of it and has to demonstrate that he deserves to be treated like a young adult instead of like a child.

I do not see it create a wedge, but rather giving the teen the necessary structure he might still need. In our house it is not a punishment, but simply a sign that the teen has been given too much freedom and responsibility to handle and that he needs more structure and supervision at his current stage.

[Juniper]

absolutely agree. My parents tomato-staked me to themselves, our youth leader at church or my cousin and her parents. There was plenty of "space" but it was dictated and controlled space. I also attended the counseling sessions that allowed me freedom to speak my mind without punishment.

 

 

Even with all of this though, certain personalities NEED time to themselves. To be creative, to read, to heal and sooth their own emotions. This is what I was not allowed. I could go to my room, but it was an open loft. When I would ask to be allowed to walk on our property (we lived in the woods) or play with clay in the studio (parents were artists) I wasn't aloud to do so alone.

 

Eventually, this caused me to take matters into my own hands. I left home at 16 and supported myself. That was preferable to being tomato staked.

[Melissa in FL]

Tomato staking should not be shaming or going over the misdeed constantly, especially with a teen. It should be just quietly including them in all you do. When I feel my dd pulling away I pull her back by staking. The most bonding times we have is deep cleaning a room, or cooking, or doing some project together. Playing a game or just trying to have a deep talk does not work as well at getting her attitude back as doing something constructive together. Do teens need time in their room just to chill? Of course. But it can be balanced with activities that benefit the whole family at the same time. She is learning from an adult how to behave like an adult. A lot of her friends are learning from other teens during this time and they are going to run into trouble that way. Does my dd have contact with her peers? More than some public school friends. But every now and then she needs to stop texting and talking on the phone and have some time with me. She and I are both better for it. If you asked my daughter if I had ever tomato staked her she would have no idea what you were talking about. It's just a polite way to explain to others.

[DawnM]

I understand the idea behind it, but we do not do it and won't do it.

[justamouse]

I wouldn't even consider it.

 

I left at 19, and never looked back. NOW we have a functioning relationship, but we're not close, and she has apologized.

[Lady Florida.]

Am I the only one who doesn't think "tomato-staking" teens who are having difficulty is something to recommend generally?

 

 

No, you're not alone.

[Harriet Vane]

I've seen it work wonders for my 13 year old. The idea isn't to make it punishment. It is to re-socialize them to the norms of your family, your culture. When you spend too much time as a teen around other teens you start to get a group think...to take on their ideals. Spending more time with adults helps to foster adult values.

 

I don't think it has to be with mom cleaning the house. But it needs to be with an adult, and it needs to be doing something responsible or important a good part of the time. Some of it can be just hanging out, but a large part should be focused on others, not self. Volunteer work would also fall into this category.

 

I can always tell when my son isn't getting enough time with family/adults by his attitude. A few days with me, or even better, with Grandma, totally turns that around.

 

:iagree: Well said, all of it, but especially the bolded.

[Harriet Vane]

Tomato staking should not be shaming or going over the misdeed constantly, especially with a teen. It should be just quietly including them in all you do. When I feel my dd pulling away I pull her back by staking. The most bonding times we have is deep cleaning a room, or cooking, or doing some project together. Playing a game or just trying to have a deep talk does not work as well at getting her attitude back as doing something constructive together. Do teens need time in their room just to chill? Of course. But it can be balanced with activities that benefit the whole family at the same time. She is learning from an adult how to behave like an adult. A lot of her friends are learning from other teens during this time and they are going to run into trouble that way. Does my dd have contact with her peers? More than some public school friends. But every now and then she needs to stop texting and talking on the phone and have some time with me. She and I are both better for it. If you asked my daughter if I had ever tomato staked her she would have no idea what you were talking about. It's just a polite way to explain to others.

:iagree:

[ChristyB in TN]

I don't really grasp the concept of what it even is.

 

Can anyone give me a crash course?

I think it differs from person to person. When we used the concept with my daughter we took her out of school and began home educating again. Except, I work so she "office schooled" with me. She sat in my office at my desk and worked on her laptop. When I went to lunch, she did, too. She was essentially grounded because her friends were not good for her and we didn't want her around them. She went to yoga with me because we did that anyway, the movies with her brother, and could hang out anywhere in the house she wanted even without me. I need space, too!!! The point is that a kid sometimes goes in the wrong direction and needs to be around a parent A LOT in order to rejoin her /his world. We weren't angry after the initial meltdown, she just joined us in our actual real world existence. She earned her freedom and our trust by having a great attitude. It didn't take long. The old friends are gone, new friends are awesome, she is free to make mistakes again.:D She got to see how reality outside of an institution (Huge public high school) actually works. It was a fantastic experience for all of us.

[MegP]

I don't really grasp the concept of what it even is.

 

Can anyone give me a crash course?

 

 

I think this concept is from a book, isn't it?

[Audrey]

Yup. I'm not at all enamored of the tomato-staking theory or practice, and when you are talking about older children, I become even less enthusiastic.

[FairProspects]

Me. I am a super independent personality, and this would have driven me nuts as a teen. Just because I made some different choices from my family doesn't automatically make my choices wrong.

 

Teen years are an important time to find yourself in preparation for an independent launch, and while I certainly don't think these years should be without guidance, I think the parent should work on finding healthy outlets for the needs of the teen, rather than pulling them tighter toward the choices of the adults.

[Danestress]

but I don't think people who say to tomato stake her really mean it in the way they do with 3 year olds. With a 3 year old, "tomato stake" means, this child can not be out of my sight. If I am taking a shower, she's sitting on the floor in the bathroom reading. If I am reading in bed she's in a sleeping bag on my floor.

 

I don't think that's a great way to deal with a teenager, and I wouldn't do it. But I think when people say, "I would tomato stake her" what they really mean is that they would fill her "free" time with activities that include both parent and child. Child helps Mom make dinner, child helps Mom do dishes, child then takes dog for walk with Mom. I don't think they really mean that the child can't take a shower alone or sleep in a bed by herself.

 

I personally think spending more time together is a good thing. Spending every waking minute together? Not for me.

[Audrey]

I don't really grasp the concept of what it even is.

 

Can anyone give me a crash course?

 

The very, very basic idea is that you "model" good behaviour, and limit their freedom to personal time, by keeping them with you constantly for a period of time sufficient to "correct" their behavior.

 

It is a book, but the website also explains a lot about it. Note the subtitle in the header and you'll get a good gist of the particular parenting philosophy.

[ktgrok]

Even with all of this though, certain personalities NEED time to themselves. To be creative, to read, to heal and sooth their own emotions. This is what I was not allowed. I could go to my room, but it was an open loft. When I would ask to be allowed to walk on our property (we lived in the woods) or play with clay in the studio (parents were artists) I wasn't aloud to do so alone.

 

Eventually, this caused me to take matters into my own hands. I left home at 16 and supported myself. That was preferable to being tomato staked.

 

Ah, I see what you are saying. Yes, some people need alone time, and teens more than others. When we "tomato stake" he still gets time on his own, just not with his friends. Time to read a book in bed, take long showers, etc is allowed. But he stays in the house with me, or works in the yard.

[ChristyB in TN]

I need to add, it is a tool for the parenting toolbox. Staking, like everything else, is not right for every kid or every family and certainly it isn't right for every occasion. We are not rigid people and we didn't stifle her. She still had her email, facebook, twitter, etc and had her own room and eventually got her stuff back. She needed to be removed from a bad situation and re-focused on reality. It worked. I can completely see how horrible it would be if the family happened to be one that didn't value personal space.

[Bluegoat]

Ok, so reading everyone's replies, it seems like what some people are talking about is what I would consider "grounding" but without it being explicitly a punishment.

 

I don't have a problem necessarily from withdrawing kids from certain kinds of outside activities, or even most of them for a while. I used to find it was a great thing as a preteen and teen when it happened by chance, for example when I went away in the summer. It put things that get kind of overheated in the teen world into perspective.

 

But like a few other posters, the idea of being hooked up to anyone constantly or even most of the time horrifies me, whether it is supposedly a punishment or not. It's one of the reasons I found school to be so unpleasant. I think it would probably make me do something pretty extreme to get out of it.

[Ghee]

Even with all of this though, certain personalities NEED time to themselves. To be creative, to read, to heal and sooth their own emotions. This is what I was not allowed. I could go to my room, but it was an open loft. When I would ask to be allowed to walk on our property (we lived in the woods) or play with clay in the studio (parents were artists) I wasn't aloud to do so alone.

 

Eventually, this caused me to take matters into my own hands. I left home at 16 and supported myself. That was preferable to being tomato staked.

 

 

Hmm, well I don't know what they were trying to prevent, but that isn't how I view tomato staking. I mean, they stay home rather than going to friend's houses that don't hold our values. I mean, I give them things to do in the home vs let them do "whatever", if "whatever" is not acceptable (I let them read, create, explore but NOT mindlessly watch tv, play video games, etc..) Now, we are preventing making the "easy" choice, not worrying about sex or drugs, for those things I wouldn't want the child out of my sight.

[MinivanMom]

Me. I am a super independent personality, and this would have driven me nuts as a teen. Just because I made some different choices from my family doesn't automatically make my choices wrong.

 

Teen years are an important time to find yourself in preparation for an independent launch, and while I certainly don't think these years should be without guidance, I think the parent should work on finding healthy outlets for the needs of the teen, rather than pulling them tighter toward the choices of the adults.

 

:iagree:

 

I've seen some families use this method in response to choices that are different from the family or simply stupid (and what teen hasn't made dumb choices) versus illegal or immoral. In those situations it seems like a really good way to drive a wedge in your relationship with your child. It's good to spend time with your teen and to spend time as a family . . . but . . . maybe they don't want you as a role model (or the hand-picked pastor/pastor's wife you connect with and deem appropriate). Maybe they don't want to grow up to be exactly like you in every way. I guess on a certain level, I object strongly to the idea of the parent as perfect role model. Not all teens are rebellious. Being independent or making choices different from the family culture isn't necessarily rebellious.

 

I grew up in a neglectful home and was on my own at a very young age . . . making very good choices. I'm sure my background affects my perception of parents who tend towards being so highly, highly involved in every aspect and choice of their teens' lives. And obviously, what I'm saying doesn't apply to very young teens or situations where teens are actually engaging in high-risk/illegal behaviors. I just can't imagine being "tied" to anyone at that age. It just seems like overkill in the wrong direction. Teens need more opportunities for real responsibility, not more babysitting.

[Harriet Vane]

 

I've seen some families use this method in response to choices that are different from the family or simply stupid (and what teen hasn't made dumb choices) versus illegal or immoral. .

 

Folks who cannot see this important boundary are folks who will struggle to implement any form of training or discipline effectively.

[Ghee]

Growing up my parents just called that grounding.

 

True, except my mom grounded me from those things in response to something else (say back talk) for a specified amount of time (no phone for a month.) What I'm doing is stepping in when I see him taking the easy/lazy way out and helping him through the harder choice. When he can't stop watching a tv show, it goes away and I assign things to do in it's place. Even though he is 13, I don't leave him with grandparents because they "don't want to hear the whining" and give in after 5 minutes. I don't leave him home alone, even though he's old enough and otherwise mature enough, because he would find a way to Skype with the child I banned, or play minectaft, etc. So, as a direct result, he is by my side most of the time.

[Ghee]

I just can't imagine being "tied" to anyone at that age. It just seems like overkill in the wrong direction. Teens need more opportunities for real responsibility, not more babysitting.

 

Well, the way I see it, you are reigning them in and reminding them of your values and expectations for them. The whole point of staking them is to get them used to doing the right thing, making good choices, and then releasing them to try again on their own.

 

 

My 13 doesn't do illegal things, he just lets others tell him what to do. That COULD end up putting him in a place to do illegal things someday, if the person wanted to set him up for a fall. Right now it's more about not seeing that just because X is online 24/7, that doesn't make it ok or right. He is afraid to have interests outside of one child and what HE likes. He is too dependent on others to think for him and he learned some lazy attitudes from a few kids. In undoing that by keeping him by me and telling him why a choice is right or wrong. Hopefully it will stick (this time, I thought I'd raised him to be more independent with his interests.)

[mo2]

I think the difference between grounding and tomato staking is supposed to be that with grounding, you are focusing on *taking things away* from the child. With tomato staking, you are focusing on pulling them *closer to you.* (physically and emotionally). So they do *look* quite a bit the same.

 

And other times, I think some parents just don't like to call it "grounding" because it makes them feel bad.

 

I've never tried it, so I can't speak as to the effectiveness. And I'm actually not sure how I feel about it. It seems like it might work for some kids, but for others maybe not so much.

[hillfarm]

IMO, tomato staking works best if used as a educational tool, not a punitive one. If my 13yo dd gets a little too full of herself, a little too "princessy", too demanding, too self absorbed, too thoughtless of others or potential negative consequences of behaviors, then I may choose to resort to staking. I do it for the purpose of educating her as to what real life is like, especially real, independent life since she holds independence so very dear now.

 

She gets to join me in my day-to-day life. It's not a punishment. I certainly don't consider it a punishment to have to live my life daily! However, it is fairly certain that dd will find several of the more difficult, mundane, or disagreeable tasks that I have to do every single day to be drudgery. Guess what, so do I, but I still have to do them. I use staking to remind her that there is much more to life than the single minded pursuit of one's own happiness.

 

I think one of the major problems is that staking is most often used in response to unacceptable behavior on the child's part, so it is difficult for many parents to get past being angry about the behavior and wanting to use the staking to punish the child for the wrongdoing. I suppose it may work for that, but that's not how I use it. For me it is all about reeducation. And at this specific time (13yo), it seems to be all about learning how to turn one's focus outward to meet obligations to others, learning how to be more empathetic and thoughtful, and finding in one's self the ability to quickly and completely finish tasks that are not fun but necessary.

 

I definitely don't want to use staking negatively. I love my life and would find it very insulting if someone was being taught to consider the things I do a distasteful punishment. I use staking to remind my dd that life consists of much more than leisure time in front of some kind of electronic screen. There will be fun, challenges, drudgery, excitement, set-backs, sacrifice, rewards, etc. I know that as she matures, she will have to face all these things. I want to keep her moving in the direction that will enable her to meet all these things with capability, good attitude, and self confidence. No retreating to the ease of an afternoon with Netflix. Because that is not "real" life.

[Farrar]

After seeing people talk about here so often, I feel like I kind of get it more than I did initially... and who knows how I'll feel when my own kids are teens...

 

But all my own experience working with teens and my own experiences being a teen make me feel like it's a bad, bad idea.

[justamouse]

I guess my question with the whole thing of bringing them closer, is why weren't they that close to begin with?

 

I mean, I tomato staked my first (because I wasn't smart enough with the first one to recognize how brilliantly the concept worked with my own self) and it was a white hot mess. My coming down hard was the thing that almost irrevocably broke our relationship.

 

I never did such to my oldest daughter and she is amazing. Utterly, absolutely amazing. She's not perfect, but she's an amazing person.

 

Kids screw up. And yanno what? Adults do, too. Adults miss payments, speed, run red lights, stay up too late, eat things that aren't good for them, swear, wash their wallet, leave the car unlocked all night and procrastinate when it's time to do chores. Adults struggle with anger, resentment, and selfishness. It's called the human condition. For the life of me I cannot understand how tomato staking a kid is going to somehow deliver them from unwise decisions.

[xixstar]

I find this discussion quite interesting from the perspective of a mother with a teen that we're struggling with some things.

 

I think that staking would be a big plus for us because I really do want to pull dd back into the family routine of things. She has been breaking off alone almost 100% of the time and is also dealing with self harm issues. Now clearly this indicates there is a lot going on, but the constant freedom to be alone in her room and absorbing herself in friendships where that kind of drama/concern is a source of energy for the relationship, I feel that pulling her away from that and into our home life more to be a better choice. It's not a punishment but simply a reaction to how I am hoping to help the situation (in addition to counseling as well).

 

However, I'm finding it to be more challenging than I expected. I have two small children as well and the teen has no interest in spending time with them if she doesn't have to, but due to their age and needs, my daily activities pretty much revolve around their care. I'm trying to figure in more balance so that the teen and I have better opportunities to interact beyond making snacks, heading to the park, playing outside, etc, but there really isn't much left in my day - so I'm struggling to incorporate more staking in a way that is helpful and not harmful.

 

I don't spend my days working on endless domestic tasks (it's an area that needs improvement, I'll admit) and do have a fair amount of time where I'm simply existing while keeping small children alive and safe and it feels so awkward to require her presence in those moments. So really, I just consider the staking at this age being more a commitment to keeping your children present in your company and routine instead of just allowing complete self-directed time when that time isn't being directed in a positive manner. I was really hoping to use this summer to work on this more, but I need some inspiration as well because I certainly don't need any additional wedges in our relationship either.