I feel sick - injured child, WWYD?

[shinyhappypeople]

Neither the hand or thigh injuries looked like the pictures of contact dermatitis. DH said he saw her struggle to get up and she was hobbling.

 

This whole situation sucks. Thanks for your continued prayers for Friend and her family.

[Trish]

I personally think a call to CPS is way over the top.

 

I don't see anything abnormal about a mom being defensive after a neighbor's husband comes to her house asking about her child's injury and whether the child received medical treatment. I can see how it could be construed as someone questioning your parenting.

 

I can see myself being a bit miffed if someone I didn't know very well came over and questioned me about how we are treating an injury. I probably would initially respond by letting the person know we had it all under control, thanks for your concern. More inquiries followed by an attempt to educate me about it would be irritating.

 

The burn is probably a pretty bad case of contact dermatitis, which can look just like a burn.

 

Lighter fluid's main ingredient is naphtha.

 

It is plausible that this little girl fell in or some how got lighter fluid on her and didn't think much of it. After a while it started to burn and that is when the parents/child realized it was a problem.

 

I don't see anything fishy or even remotely CPS worthy.

 

So she's either got a serious medical problem, or a case of contact dermatitis?

 

Eh. I hope you're right! Wonder where the "lighter fluid" story came from.

[RanchGirl]

I think y'all did fine to start with. However, as a mandated reporter, I would give them one more chance since y'all have been friendly then report. The child deserves proper medical care and relief.

 

I really am not particularly quick to call CPS. I have done so on a couple occasions and I'm positive the majority of the people in the world would have done the same, probably sooner. And as someone whose children are now being victim of someone using CPS due to prejudice and personal dislike, I'm even less likely to call unless sure.

 

But this kid is in pain and from the description is NOT getting acceptable help. I would offer ways they could get the care cheap/free. I would offer to drive if they need that. I would listen to their concerns. Whatever. But in the end, if it takes CPS to insist, then it does.

 

Pamela H has basically summed up my thoughts. I've never called CPS, but it does seem like this child should have been seen in the E/R immediately. I really don't get the parents not taking her in. It raises all kinds of red flags to me based on your story. I don't understand sending dh, but if the injury looked that as bad as you describe, I would probably go down to the woman's house, let her know my concerns and insist she ride with me to the urgent care clinic. If she refuses, then I'd call CPS.

 

However, your dh is a mandated reporter, saw the injury, is familiar with proper care of burn injuries, and heard the flimsy reasoning of the mother. It sounds like in his judgment the child is just fine without medical treatment and there is nothing to report.

[Aggie]

OP...is your dh a physician? Did he see the burns himself?

[shinyhappypeople]

OP...is your dh a physician? Did he see the burns himself?

 

No, he's not a doctor. He saw the hand burns but not the thigh burn. I saw that and told him about it. He saw her try to get up and hobble when she walked. She was subdued today, which is totally out of character for her.

 

At his former job he had extensive first aid training, including what to do in the case of chemical burns (they worked around many hazardous liquids). He gave the mom the information that he learned in his training.

 

I hope she is seen by a doctor soon. I hope we were worried for nothing!

[SJ.]

Neither the hand or thigh injuries looked like the pictures of contact dermatitis. DH said he saw her struggle to get up and she was hobbling.

 

This whole situation sucks. Thanks for your continued prayers for Friend and her family.

 

Did you look at google images? It ranges from a slight pink rash to major nastiness. Both the Mayo Clinic's website and the NIH describe it as sometimes looking like a burn.

 

I hope the little girl is OK, but I bet she'll be just fine.

[kitten18]

:crying::crying:

:grouphug: Hugs for the girl.

[SJ.]

I guess the big question is whether the lighter fluid is in the correct ph range to cause a chemical burn. Where are the WTM chemists?

 

Chemical burns, for anyone curious: http://dermnetnz.org/reactions/chemical-burns.html

 

I'm still betting on the dermatitis.

 

ETA: I'll win my bet either way, it looks like a chemical burn is also considered irritant contact dermatitis. According to this: http://dermnetnz.org/dermatitis/contact-irritant.html

Edited May 29, 2012 by SJ.

[Carrie75]

The mother is being neglectful. Is she worried about the cost? I don't get it. I would have to call someone. I couldn't sleep at night knowing nothing was being done for her.

[Liz CA]

You and your husband did nothing wrong. Frankly, I can't imagine any "normal" parent getting upset at someone expressing concern about something like that. Honestly, after the reaction you got, I would get more concerned about the cause of the burn and why they wouldn't want to get it properly treated, than I would have with seeing the burn to begin with.

 

Yes, as in why can they not see a doctor...because they would have to tell him/her how it happened...? I am glad you and your dh said something. If this had been my child (we would have seen the doctor of course), I would have thanked you for your concern. I am wondering if the family cannot afford medical care? I had not even thought of that until just now.

[shinyhappypeople]

I guess the big question is whether the lighter fluid is in the correct ph range to cause a chemical burn. Where are the WTM chemists?

 

Chemical burns, for anyone curious: http://dermnetnz.org/reactions/chemical-burns.html

 

I'm still betting on the dermatitis.

 

OK, I googled contact dermatitis images. Ew. :tongue_smilie:

 

I hope that's all it is. I just wish she'd take her DD to the doctor so a professional can diagnose it.

[Jean in Newcastle]

You don't diagnose someone on the internet. You don't diagnose someone with something with the potential to be that severe at home. You go seek qualified medical advice. It might not be something serious - in fact, I hope that it isn't - but the parents are showing neglect by not having it looked at and diagnosed by someone qualified to do so. I know that the OP mentioned a family member who gave advice but unless that person was an actual doctor and actually looked at it, I do not think that is sufficient. (I say this as the wife of an RN, who always takes us in if it is something more serious than can be diagnosed by a nurse and treated with home remedies.)

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Well, she's probably having a horrible night. Praying's a mighty good thing and I do it myself for all sorts of situations, but there's also picking up the phone and calling for help when a young child is in an emergency.

 

For the life of me I can't understand why your DH didn't make the call when you saw her leg, he saw her hand, he saw her hobbling painfully around, and the Mom made it clear that she intended to follow a course of treatment other than seeking the medical attention that your DH knows is necessary.

 

I couldn't sleep well tonight, myself, knowing that little girl is suffering for lack of medical care. Plans for cards, cookies, hopes, and prayers are wonderful, loving things that go along with and/or follow the actual treatment. They don't stop the child's suffering. She needs medical care.

[swellmomma]

Well, she's probably having a horrible night. Praying's a mighty good thing and I do it myself for all sorts of situations, but there's also picking up the phone and calling for help when a young child is in an emergency.

 

For the life of me I can't understand why your DH didn't make the call when you saw her leg, he saw her hand, he saw her hobbling painfully around, and the Mom made it clear that she intended to follow a course of treatment other than seeking the medical attention that your DH knows is necessary.

 

I couldn't sleep well tonight, myself, knowing that little girl is suffering for lack of medical care. Plans for cards, cookies, hopes, and prayers are wonderful, loving things that go along with and/or follow the actual treatment. They don't stop the child's suffering. She needs medical care.

 

:iagree:This. I keep popping back online instead of sleeping hoping for an update that includes, just saw them drive back from the ER.

[jennsmile]

I vote that perhaps the mom is doing the wait and see approach. I know when I had a 2 yo get burned we waited a day or two as I don't think we realized how severe it was. We kept the area clean and gave pain meds. His doctor is still amazed at how well it healed. We did see her and get silverdene but it was a few days later. My first reaction for things is not to rush to the ER. Perhaps this mom is the same way.

 

One thing that we did use was the Vet wrap tape and non stick pads with the silverdene. it was a great combo to keep the area free from dirt. Perhaps you might suggest that as a great coverage, over some pads to keep the dirt out.

[gardenmom5]

I don't believe this is a case of criminal neglect. I believe she loves her children deeply and would NEVER intentionally harm them. I think her choice to not seek immediate medical attention for her daughter is a mistake, .

a "mistake" that is harming her daughter. I agree with those who suggest insisting you drive her and her daughter to receive medical care so you can be assured she is getting what is needed. if she refusesl, call CPS. her intentions may be merely naive, but they are hurting her daughter.

 

It won't make much difference to her health whether her mother is neglecting proper treatment out of meanness or ignorance; the point is she needs to go the hospital.

 

They do more than ointment and bandages for burns.

:iagree: There have been times I've gone in/taken a child into the ER and felt I was probably "over reacting" to be doing so - but it was the right thing to do. (one time I was admitted. so much for over reaction.)

 

Oh, and regarding the lighter fluid, they were having a BBQ yesterday. I don't understand the details, but the accident was related to that.

did she fall on a bbq grill on the ground? a fire pit? squirt lighter fluid at burning charcoal? (a neighbor had a party where an adult did something similar. the adult DIED from her burns.)

 

You don't diagnose someone on the internet. You don't diagnose someone with something with the potential to be that severe at home. You go seek qualified medical advice. It might not be something serious - in fact, I hope that it isn't - but the parents are showing neglect by not having it looked at and diagnosed by someone qualified to do so. I know that the OP mentioned a family member who gave advice but unless that person was an actual doctor and actually looked at it, I do not think that is sufficient. (I say this as the wife of an RN, who always takes us in if it is something more serious than can be diagnosed by a nurse and treated with home remedies.)

:iagree:

 

eta: sometimes the "wait and see" approach is one of the worst things you can do.

Edited May 29, 2012 by gardenmom5

[elegantlion]

There is a possibility they are waiting for today to seek attention. If you don't have insurance walking into an ER during a holiday weekend can cost at least $1000.00 just to be seen (ask me how I know). If the family is uninsured that may be a significant issue for them.

 

I agree if it had been my child, cost wouldn't have been a factor. However, if it had happened to me, I probably wouldn't have gone to the ER.

 

Before I'd call CPS I would do as pp suggested and offer to drive her to a clinic or regular physician.

[nono]

Well someone around here yesterday had gotten burned from an engine exploding, and they were told by the UrgentCare to go to a burn center today. So they are driving the two hours to a burn center further up the state this morning. :confused: I know nothing about treating burns, but this surprised me. However, if a medical facility told me something could wait until Tuesday morning, v. trying to go get care on Memorial Day, I'd try to wait too. (I'd try to wait. Not sure that would include my kids!)

 

I hope the update today is that something is being done to ease her pain.

Edited May 29, 2012 by nono

[61Keys]

Honestly, after the reaction you got, I would get more concerned about the cause of the burn and why they wouldn't want to get it properly treated, than I would have with seeing the burn to begin with.

 

^^^ That!!! ^^^

[Pamela H in Texas]

I really feel for this mom. Being afraid of judgment is a VERY hard thing. Fear of CPS is very real thing (an investigation can be very stressful on the whole family, especially the children). It can happen now that they didn't seek further medical attention but it could have happened at the ER also. And what if THOSE people don't believe you, like you, agree with you, etc? The consequences can be devastating. Again, going through this right now, though *EVERYONE* else except our bully and a couple people she is USING are on our side, I wouldn't wish it on ANYONE. I most certainly can see why someone may be fearful, especially if the story seems a little off (though we ALL know just about anything is possible!).

 

And then if you have someone telling you have to deal with it yourself. Add the cost of an ER trip and sitting there on a holiday weekend. And and and...

 

Well, and whether to go to the ER is really one of those pretty subjective things. I'm POSITIVE I have gone more than some people. I'm also POSITIVE I've gone less than others. I had people thinking we were silly for taking our ds (then age 3) for his head injury because of how it happened, he only fell from his feet to his head, etc. Not only did we take him, we took him via ambulance! So obviously, that is the way I err. Of course, one of our own investigation issues is a pea size bruise on same ds's head. He had no clue he had it or where it came from. I felt dumb asking a doctor to look at that (of course, dr. knew it was to cover our rears because of someone using CPS inappropriately so it wasn't like I looked silly).

 

Anyway, I just worry that the friend could really suffer more because of lack of medical care. As a friend, I'd really want to encourage the family to seek care. This isn't about them getting in trouble. It is about keeping kiddo healthy.

[Dealea86]

To be honest, I think a lot of people are jumping the gun here about calling CPS. None of us except the OP know the family, and none of us except the OP have seen the burns. And the OP and her husband both seem to think it's not severe enough to contact CPS yet.

 

Hopefully they were just waiting to see the girl's regular doctor today after the holiday weekend. That wasn't the smartest move on the parents' part, and hopefully the girl doesn't suffer for it, but I can certainly understand not wanting to pay ER fees for something that an "expert" they knew said didn't need it. I hardly think that qualifies as abuse or neglect. They asked someone they thought would know best, did what that person said, and hopefully they're taking her to the doctor today.

 

If they still refuse to take her in today, and if the daughter's not much better, then it might warrant a call to CPS. But I still think it's something none of us are going to be able to tell just from a forum post, especially without pictures.

[klmama]

She "fell on lighter fluid"? :glare: That doesn't sound quite right to me.

 

Really? It makes perfect sense to me. I picture this: she was running past where they were grilling when she tripped and fell, landing on the open container of lighter fluid someone had just set down on the ground next to the grill. It spilled all over and got on her leg and hand, and she was burned from the chemicals. Maybe it only burned her leg at first, but she touched her wet leg with her hand and got the lighter fluid on it, too.

 

Regardless, I think she needs medical attention, too.

[CountitallJoy]

A burn untreated is immediate danger.

 

Not necessarily.

 

http://www.stlouischildrens.org/articles/wellness/the-basics-burns

[gardenmom5]

an ER trip and sitting there on a holiday weekend. And and and...

.

 

That's why they triage patitents. I, personally, have done two ER runs where I bypassed a huge waiting room full of people to be taken back within minutes of my by-car arrival. (including one time where I felt foolish going in - but was admitted as an in-patient.)

 

as large a burn as this girl has - they wouldn't be waiting for long.

[sewingmama]

Really? It makes perfect sense to me. I picture this: she was running past where they were grilling when she tripped and fell, landing on the open container of lighter fluid someone had just set down on the ground next to the grill. It spilled all over and got on her leg and hand, and she was burned from the chemicals. Maybe it only burned her leg at first, but she touched her wet leg with her hand and got the lighter fluid on it, too.

 

Regardless, I think she needs medical attention, too.

 

 

Were there splash mark burns on her leg? If she fell onto on open container of lighter fluid there would be splash burns as well as the one large burn. If it is just one large burn with clear edges and no other marks elsewhere then I would be suspicious of the story. You do not fall into/onto a liquid without receiving splash marks as well.

[SKL]

I dunno, in my family, we never, as in never, went to the doc or ER for a burn. (And I've seen some ugly ones.) The body is an amazing thing. It heals. This is the first time I've heard of people thinking that every burn needs medical attention.

 

The burn sounded bad in the OP, but I was not there to see it myself. Also, burns tend to get worse looking before they get better.

 

I am kind of offended by the way so many people here so readily determine that a parent who parents differently is abusive, neglectful, etc.

 

Once my kid got bitten near her eye by a spider (when napping at preschool). She's very sensitive to bites, so her eye swelled up and looked like she'd been punched. Luckily the school knew it had happened on their watch, but when the swelling didn't go down by the next day, I made a doctor appointment. NOT because I felt there was any physical danger at all. Only because I was afraid some busybody would "determine" that I was neglectful for not taking her. Never mind the fact that I had to take off work and pay a copay etc. There is way too much CYA in this country, thanks to attitudes like some seen here.

 

So now if this child gets treated today and ends up not dying or losing her leg, will all of you accusers apologize?

[Allearia]

Well, she's probably having a horrible night. Praying's a mighty good thing and I do it myself for all sorts of situations, but there's also picking up the phone and calling for help when a young child is in an emergency.

 

For the life of me I can't understand why your DH didn't make the call when you saw her leg, he saw her hand, he saw her hobbling painfully around, and the Mom made it clear that she intended to follow a course of treatment other than seeking the medical attention that your DH knows is necessary.

 

I couldn't sleep well tonight, myself, knowing that little girl is suffering for lack of medical care. Plans for cards, cookies, hopes, and prayers are wonderful, loving things that go along with and/or follow the actual treatment. They don't stop the child's suffering. She needs medical care.

 

:iagree: I don't see another option here of sitting by while the child goes untreated. Drive them to the doctor, get someone involved, whatever it takes. Yes, maybe it is contact dermatitis, isn't serious, was a complete accident, whatever. But it could also be a very serious injury that could have major impact on the child, perhaps even life threatening, if it is a burn. A doctor needs to see this and determine what it is. And I do understand that maybe the parents didn't immediately realize that, but they do now and need to act on that information.

[SKL]

If the pressure to get her seen by a doctor results in the parent actually taking her in for treatment, resulting in the child not losing her leg or dying, then isn't that a good thing?

 

You assume the parent was just going to sit by and watch her child die. More likely the parent was checking on the burn and deciding on a periodic basis whether it merited medical attention. Maybe it's already much better today and they don't need a doctor after all. Maybe it isn't, and the mom would have taken the child to the doctor without being threatened with CPS intervention.

 

Sorry, the talk about someone grabbing my child and driving her to a doctor etc. while I'm standing there saying "no" is NOT sitting well with me. At. all. How about I snatch your kid and put him in school since you obviously aren't giving him the same education I'd give mine?

[Nakia]

I can't even say if I think the mom is being neglectful or not. It's hard to say, and we can't be sure what is really going on. I am a mandatory reporter, and it would be hard for me to make a decision based on just the facts in this thread. I guess I'd have to see the burn and make a decision.

 

I know I would have taken my kids straight to the hospital if that happened to them.

 

As to the op's husband going over to the house...well I can understand the neighbor being upset/intimidated by that. I have "men issues" stemming from WAY back, and if someone's husband came to my home, even if he was just offering advice/concern, I would feel very defensive, I'm sure. It is my issue though, and I know I need work on it. Just wanted to point out another perspective. We don't know what this mom has been through. Maybe she is defensive because of her own issues, maybe she is being neglectful, maybe she is scared. Who knows??

 

:grouphug: OP. I know you are just worried. I hope everything goes okay. :grouphug:

[Sun]

Neither the hand or thigh injuries looked like the pictures of contact dermatitis. DH said he saw her struggle to get up and she was hobbling.

 

This whole situation sucks. Thanks for your continued prayers for Friend and her family.

 

The bolded part, in addition to the original information, is what really makes me hope that the child has gotten some medical attention. That does not sound like a mild burn that doesn't need medical attention. It doesn't sound like a mild case of contact dermatitis. It sounds like a child in a lot of pain. Burns are painful, but if it's bad enough/large enough that it's making her struggle to get up and hobble, then she needs to be seen.

 

OP, I really hope that you've called someone about this. :grouphug:

[gardenmom5]

You assume the parent was just going to sit by and watch her child die. ?

and there are documented cases of parents doing just that BECAUSE they honestly thought they were taking care of it. by the time they realized it was out of their league, the child was too sick to recover.

 

My nurse grandmother thought she had my father's spinal meningitis under control - because she was a nurse. she delayed taking him in, and he suffered permanent damage because of it.

 

I've a friend whose ped over the phone ordered her to take her dd to the ER for a MRI - she took her in, but they triaged her way down the list. after five hours sitting there, waiting, she asked if they could just go home because they were hungry and tired. my friend did NOT think it was serious - and those who triaged her daughter didn't think it was serious and kept up with their "oh, we've had so many trauma cases" stalling. as soon as they did the MRI - she was sent directly to ICU (*none* of the oh so critical trauma cases went there.) her dd had a brain bleed.

 

better to get checked than find out later you should have taken them in sooner.