just a rant, people who refuse to work

[mommaduck]

 

:iagree: They also have memberships to gyms to be able to shower and clean up for the interviews to be able to get the luxury of a landline.

 

 

Every town has a gym? Every gym gives these "memberships"? I've only heard of these things happening in certain areas and in times of crisis. I've lived in rural areas where gyms are not available and the closest YMCA was a 40min drive.

[nova147]

I believe in being prepared in an emergency. We live in an industrialized area that sometimes requires emergency evacuation. The towns here reverse-911 people to notify them to evacuate. We are not able to reverse-911 to a cellphone.

 

That explains why you, and perhaps most of your neighborhood, have chosen not to get rid of your landlines. I don't live in such an area. I have been without a landline for 3 years without problems. I know lots of people who do the same.

 

I also managed fine before cell phones and the internet. But that's not terribly relevant any more. My great-grandparents managed fine without electricity and running water on their farm. I don't know anyone who lives without either of those. Progress makes life better, sometimes even for those in extreme poverty who don't have homes.

[cdrumm4448]

<crickets>

 

I do this funny thing sometimes called home education, which is why I'm not on this board all day long.

 

I will reiterate; you do not physically need a government-subsidized phone of any kind to live today. Phones are not a right. They make life more convenient.

 

But you see, I'm tired. Tired of seeing my husband work 12-hour shifts, 28 days straight. Tired of hearing,"We can't!" and "Give me more!" Tired of seeing people who are perfectly capable of providing for themselves rely on people like my husband to get through life. Tired of seeing people who refuse to live frugally and who make bad decisions not reap what they sow, but the rest of us have to shoulder the burden. I'm tired of feeling like this whole darn country is so far from our origins that I don't know if we can right the ship in time to avert the coming disaster.

 

I just heard yesterday that the $15.7 trillion debt is 107% of our GDP. Our "leaders" are a disaster. We are on the downward slope of an impending financial crash, and few are listening and preparing. If people where listening they wouldn't say,"Give me healthcare! Give me housing and food! Pay for my education!" (An OWS organizer just stated he wants these things and much more for free).

 

Nothing is free. Those who work pay for those who can't. I have a problem with those who won't.

[beaners]

That is so true.

 

Here's another truth: Sometimes people in tough situations lack total understanding of their situation. They lack math and comprehension skills and are telling you what they've worked out in their mind, not what is real. On the other end of the situation is a social worker who has given up trying to get them to understand, just pleased she's got them correctly going through the paces.

 

You don't have to take everything that everyone says as gospel.

 

I think this is a lot of the problem with the more rare generational situations. My sister's friend that I mentioned earlier was just out of high school, which actually puts her ahead of a lot of the people I knew in similar living situations when I lived in Memphis. For someone with no background in what things cost, or for someone who has always lived in a certain kind of environment, the money coming in looks pretty good. There's a big disconnect between what is coming in and what you need for your bills. She saw that she was surviving, and she saw that she didn't have to work to do it. I'm glad she didn't recruit my sister (who had done enough babysitting to know that children aren't an easy paycheck!) but that friend is raising a little boy in her "world."

[clarkacademy]

I honestly think this thread should close It will cause nothing but hard feelings on this board It will be nothing but an uproar There are somethings we just should not talk about to each other.

 

We will always have those that take advantage, those that can't make ends meet and those that think low of people. This argument cannot be won. This thread should close.

[jennynd]

On the cell phone thing....you can get a discount on your land line or a free cheap cell phone and 250 minutes a month. For someone with no income getting the cell phone is the only option because they can't afford the rest of the bill for the landline.

personally, I have no problem gov give people in need a cell phone. But do they have to give out 400$ iphone. I only have a flip phone cost 29 $ and works just fine.

[clarkacademy]

personally, I have no problem gov give people in need a cell phone. But do they have to give out 400$ iphone. I only have a flip phone cost 29 $ and works just fine.

 

I have already linked the gov phones and it sure isn't an iphone. Where are you getting this information? Do you have documented proof other than a he said she said thing? I have worked with special needs adults and the elderly who have these phones and they are cheapest things there is. I would like you to post a comapny or something that is giving these things out.

[mommaduck]

I honestly think this thread should close It will cause nothing but hard feelings on this board It will be nothing but an uproar There are somethings we just should not talk about to each other.

 

We will always have those that take advantage, those that can't make ends meet and those that think low of people. This argument cannot be won. This thread should close.

:iagree:

 

personally, I have no problem gov give people in need a cell phone. But do they have to give out 400$ iphone. I only have a flip phone cost 29 $ and works just fine.

They don't. There are no iphones on the list they give you. I received paperwork in the mail for one of these phones, because we apparently qualify (I didn't know this till the paperwork came). They tell you that you will receive one of the three phones shown (one is Samsung...none of them are an iphone or a smartphone of any kind). You get to choose one of three plans, all have pros and cons. If you run out of minutes, you have to pay to have more put on that month. There is NOTHING fancy about it. Now, IF they do happen to take pictures, that would only be due to cams becoming standards on most phones, including the cheapest pay as you go phone I happen to already have (my flip phone also cost $30 and it has a cam). Those that have iphones are getting them from somewhere else, possibly a relative (many times a well meaning relative will gift something nice for a birthday to someone they know can't afford to purchase the item for themselves).

 

As said before: Assumptions are abounding here.

[Rivka]

Let's bring some data to the discussion:

 

A new CBPP analysis of budget and Census data, however, shows that more than 90 percent of the benefit dollars that entitlement and other mandatory programs spend go to assist people who are elderly, seriously disabled, or members of working households — not to able-bodied, working-age Americans who choose not to work. (See Figure 1.) This figure has changed little in the past few years. [...]

 

The claim behind these critiques is clear: federal spending on entitlements and other mandatory programs through which individuals receive benefits is promoting laziness, creating a dependent class of Americans who are losing the desire to work and would rather collect government benefits than find a job.

 

 

 

Such beliefs are starkly at odds with the basic facts regarding social programs, the analysis finds. Federal budget and Census data show that, in 2010, 91 percentof the benefit dollars from entitlement and other mandatory programs went to the elderly (people 65 and over), the seriously disabled, and members of working households. People who are neither elderly nor disabled — and do not live in a working household — received only 9 percent of the benefits.

 

 

 

Moreover, the vast bulk of that 9 percent goes for medical care, unemployment insurance benefits (which individuals must have a significant work history to receive), Social Security survivor benefits for the children and spouses of deceased workers, and Social Security benefits for retirees between ages 62 and 64. Seven out of the 9 percentage points go for one of these four purposes.

[swellmomma]

I honestly think this thread should close It will cause nothing but hard feelings on this board It will be nothing but an uproar There are somethings we just should not talk about to each other.

 

We will always have those that take advantage, those that can't make ends meet and those that think low of people. This argument cannot be won. This thread should close.

 

:iagree:

[mommaduck]

It seems like we have gotten off of the original topic. How do we keep people like the original poster from living off the system? Forget cell phones. How do we do that? It is easier to just get the money than to try and work part time at Walmart or wherever. Let us get back on topic.

Stop penalising those that are actually working their butts off.

[elegantlion]

Most of you know where we have been. And how long it has taken us to get where we are now. We are on the *cusp* of the working class to upper middle class jump.

 

What has it taken? Insane amounts of work on my part. Sacrifices on the part of my dc. Many nights of little sleep where I studied, wrote papers, planned homeschool, etc. Weekend days at McDonalds (free internet) while dh holds down the fort.

 

It will be worth it! However, for anyone who thinks it is so *easy* to get beyond...I call B.S. From someone who has been there and is there.

 

Am I ashamed for taking aid? No. Do I want to stay here forever? NEVER.

 

Signed, Renee - Masters degree earning, CPA-to-be, homeschooling mom of 7. Who was able to do this because God blessed me with well above average intelligence, an upper middle class upbringing, and no health/mental/drug issues. Without those things in my favor, I would NOT have been able to do this!

 

 

 

:hurray::cheers2:good for you. I am glad to hear it.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I do this funny thing sometimes called home education, which is why I'm not on this board all day long.

 

I will reiterate; you do not physically need a government-subsidized phone of any kind to live today. Phones are not a right. They make life more convenient.

 

They are also a necessity when job hunting. They are incredibly important in case of an emergency, and with the decrease in the number of pay phones available, they are becoming even more important.

 

 

But you see, I'm tired. Tired of seeing my husband work 12-hour shifts, 28 days straight. Tired of hearing,"We can't!" and "Give me more!" Tired of seeing people who are perfectly capable of providing for themselves rely on people like my husband to get through life. Tired of seeing people who refuse to live frugally and who make bad decisions not reap what they sow, but the rest of us have to shoulder the burden. I'm tired of feeling like this whole darn country is so far from our origins that I don't know if we can right the ship in time to avert the coming disaster.

 

Maybe if you actually listened you would hear something a little different.

 

I just heard yesterday that the $15.7 trillion debt is 107% of our GDP. Our "leaders" are a disaster. We are on the downward slope of an impending financial crash, and few are listening and preparing. If people where listening they wouldn't say,"Give me healthcare! Give me housing and food! Pay for my education!" (An OWS organizer just stated he wants these things and much more for free).

 

I seriously doubt that is what was actually said, but if you are that concerned about the budget, the billion dollars in subsidies flowing to corporate America would be a much better place to start.

[Mrs Mungo]

Not sure why this got to be such a polarizing discussion. The OP was talking about people she personally knows are gaming the system.

 

Even in the OP the poster implies and sometimes admits that many of the claims of the couple in the OP are dubious. This is NOT first hand information.

 

How this discussion led to mistreatment and dehumanization of workers, judging people for "needing assistance," etc., is a little beyond me.

Because there are a lot of assumptions in the thread about the type of people on assistance-many people are assuming that they are non-working, that they are lazy, that they are unwilling to do more. That is a terrible, incorrect stereotype.

 

My husband is in a position of authority in the military. I have had many, many volunteer positions over the years. This has put the two of us positions to help people get assistance, to be familiar with varying financial positions, etc.

 

You have a young couple who have never lived away from their hometowns or families. One of them (we'll say it is the husband for ease of discussion, but it could be either one) wants to serve their country in the military. They have a baby, which is not at all unusual. He works long hours, goes TDY on training for weeks or even months, he goes to the field for training for weeks at a time, and he may even deploy for a year or more. But, the couple still qualifies for assistance.

 

Many young military families qualify for WIC, even when the soldier is deployed and making extra allowances. What do you say to that young family? That they should do without a cell-phone, which may be their only link to their soldier and to their families back home? That she should go get a job? These young women rarely have beyond a high school degree, sometimes they don't even have that. She can't get a job that would pay for an infant's childcare. Employers are hesitant to hire military spouses because the employers know they rarely have longevity, they will probably be moving somewhere else in a year or two. How would you have them get off assistance?

 

We encourage the wives to make use of government programs that help them pay for childcare while they go to school. This is a hand-up, long-view program. These programs genuinely help people build a better life, but it is not a short-term fix. Short-sighted views are simply not helpful. Judging the choices of people (even when I might agree that X or Y was a poor choice) is not helpful, because you cannot go back and fix the past. You can only meet people where they are and work from there.

 

I pay a lot of taxes to make sure your kids don't go hungry.

You pay taxes for a lot of things. One of the things you pay taxes for? To allow large multi-billion dollar companies to pay an extremely low wage in order to rake in the cash for themselves. Because if government assistance programs did not exist? Then the minimum wage would HAVE to go up in order for families to survive.

 

Landlines provides access to those things. Cellphones are a luxury. Landlines are necessary to modern life, not cellphones.

 

I would never give up my landline (or my corded phone which works well in a power outage or emergency) but I could easily give up my cellphone. I'm not the only one.

 

Do these job-seekers not have homes? I routinely make and receive calls on my landline at home to other people's landllines at home, as well as businesses. I know of one person in my sphere who has given up their landline for a cellphone exclusively.

 

Using job interviews as an excuse for needing a cellphone doesn't hold water with me. But, I actually lived, applied for jobs, conducted interviews and generally got along in life just fine before cellphones and the internet.

 

You obviously have never spent much time volunteering with low-income groups. The food pantries I have worked in mostly dealt in shelf-stable items because so many of the families were homeless or lived in hotel rooms or campers without kitchens. No, they FREQUENTLY do not have homes or the opportunity for a landline.

 

It seems like we have gotten off of the original topic. How do we keep people like the original poster from living off the system? Forget cell phones. How do we do that? It is easier to just get the money than to try and work part time at Walmart or wherever. Let us get back on topic.

 

Again, even the OP believes some of the claims of the couple in question to be dubious. So, that is not much of a valid discussion.

[nertsmommy]

I honestly think this thread should close It will cause nothing but hard feelings on this board It will be nothing but an uproar There are somethings we just should not talk about to each other.

 

We will always have those that take advantage, those that can't make ends meet and those that think low of people. This argument cannot be won. This thread should close.

 

As the OP :iagree:

 

I just wanted to rant about some people who aggravated me with their "poor me" talk they'd been doing lately. I don't believe everything they say and I don't understand their "gimme" attitudes. I normally just ignore them. No one else was available IRL to talk to at the time. I got it out and I'm good to go. I try not to post things like this. I don't want to start debates. I actually try to avoid them.

 

Right now I'd like to read about another Chilean bass eating, stroller chicken playing person. :D

[happypamama]

I just have to laugh at the bit about the landline vs. cell phone. We share a cell plan with other family members, so we actually pay less for our TWO cells (none of which are fancy; DH's is an older one that someone gave him, and mine is the almost free one that I got for re-upping my plan) than we do for our landline. DH needs a cell for work, because he's in and out of the office, and clients and his boss need to reach him. I probably could manage without a cell, but our landline is useless; our local calling area is really tiny, so for pretty much anything, we pay long distance charges. To get unlimited long distance, it costs as much as one of our cells, and I can't take it with me. So given the choice, I'd rather have my cell (which is completely free to call DH, my mom, my MIL, and most of my friends). Why do I have a landline at all? Because I live 15 minutes from a library or anywhere with internet access, and if I want internet at home (which really is a fair necessity), I either pay for a landline+dial-up, landline+DSL, or satellite. I opted for landline+DSL; dial-up really isn't more than a few dollars cheaper.

[Aggie]

You have a young couple who have never lived away from their hometowns or families. One of them (we'll say it is the husband for ease of discussion, but it could be either one) wants to serve their country in the military. They have a baby, which is not at all unusual. He works long hours, goes TDY on training for weeks or even months, he goes to the field for training for weeks at a time, and he may even deploy for a year or more. But, the couple still qualifies for assistance.

 

Many young military families qualify for WIC, even when the soldier is deployed and making extra allowances. What do you say to that young family? That they should do without a cell-phone, which may be their only link to their soldier and to their families back home? That she should go get a job? These young women rarely have beyond a high school degree, sometimes they don't even have that. She can't get a job that would pay for an infant's childcare. Employers are hesitant to hire military spouses because the employers know they rarely have longevity, they will probably be moving somewhere else in a year or two. How would you have them get off assistance?

 

We encourage the wives to make use of government programs that help them pay for childcare while they go to school. This is a hand-up, long-view program. These programs genuinely help people build a better life, but it is not a short-term fix.

 

This is part of the broken system. Our country refuses to pay some of our military a decent working wage, but encourages young enlisted families to go on gov't assistance.

[Mrs Mungo]

This is part of the broken system. Our country refuses to pay some of our military a decent working wage, but encourages young enlisted families to go on gov't assistance.

 

My point is? These soldiers make way more than minimum wage *and* have great benefits. *Many* of those on assistance have jobs and work hard. It just is not enough to make ends meet.

 

Minimum wage in NC is $7.25/hour. If you worked *two* full-time minimum wage jobs, then you'd make $2,320/month. An E-4 with dependents who has served for 4 years makes $2,487 base pay and receives a housing allowance of $1,023. They also receive free medical care and prescriptions for the entire family. We pay a VERY small fee for average dental insurance. The military actually gives special allowances to people with large families to keep them off of food-stamps, but they still qualify for WIC because you don't need to be below the poverty line to receive WIC.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Mrs Mungo
crazy typo

[Jennifer3141]

But you see, I'm tired. Tired of seeing my husband work 12-hour shifts, 28 days straight. Tired of hearing,"We can't!" and "Give me more!" Tired of seeing people who are perfectly capable of providing for themselves rely on people like my husband to get through life. Tired of seeing people who refuse to live frugally and who make bad decisions not reap what they sow, but the rest of us have to shoulder the burden. I'm tired of feeling like this whole darn country is so far from our origins that I don't know if we can right the ship in time to avert the coming disaster.

 

 

 

I have to laugh at your being tired at watching your DH work a 12 hour workday. A 12 hour workday for my DH is a HOLIDAY. :lol:

Give me a break.

 

You're tired of this country being so far from its "origins?" You think we're the first generation to invent laziness?? So in 1776, everyone was a Ben Franklin, eh? That's never been the reality of the situation.

 

As for missing our country's origins... as a person who is 1/4 NA, I agree with you. There's the door, feel free to walk through it at anytime!!

Edited May 23, 2012 by Jennifer3141

[mommaduck]

I have to laugh at your being tires at watching your DH work a 12 hour workday. A 12 hour workday for my DH is a HOLIDAY. :lol:

Give me a break.

 

You're tired of this country being so far from its "origins?" You think we're the first generation to invent laziness?? So in 1776, everyone was a Ben Franklin, eh? That's never been the reality of the situation.

 

As for missing our country's origins... as a person who is 1/4 NA, I agree with you. There's the door, feel free to walk through it at anytime!!

Glad I wasn't drinking anything...it would have been all over my screen :D My husband has worked 16hrs a day. For several years, he worked EVERY SINGLE DAY...no days off accept an occasional few throughout the year. And they still got pissy with him when he got sick. They would whine to me on the phone, "are you sure he can't come in?" Uhm, no. When my husband gets sick, he gets severely sick. Every other time, slight cold or whatever, he works while dealing with it. He doesn't call in unless he has no other choice. Works that much and still qualified for welfare. Where's the laziness again?

[Renee in NC]

As the OP :iagree:

 

I just wanted to rant about some people who aggravated me with their "poor me" talk they'd been doing lately. I don't believe everything they say and I don't understand their "gimme" attitudes. I normally just ignore them. No one else was available IRL to talk to at the time. I got it out and I'm good to go. I try not to post things like this. I don't want to start debates. I actually try to avoid them.

 

Right now I'd like to read about another Chilean bass eating, stroller chicken playing person. :D

 

It's nothing you said. These threads go back probably 10 years or more. It's always the same people saying the same things (or different people saying the same things.:tongue_smilie:)

 

There are people who abuse the system. There are people who make really dumb decisions. There are people who are lazy. Some people just don't know any better. Some others have so much going against them that they don't even have the bootstraps to pull themselves up by.

 

Poverty is about more than simple income. If anyone is interested in reading about the subject from somewhere in the middle, I recommend this book:

 

Framework for Understanding Poverty. It talks about the different types of resources, how they affect poverty, and this helps you understand why some people are able to "pull themselves up" pretty easily and others struggle.

[mommaduck]

 

Framework for Understanding Poverty. It talks about the different types of resources, how they affect poverty, and this helps you understand why some people are able to "pull themselves up" pretty easily and others struggle.

Handouts for the book.

[cdrumm4448]

They are also a necessity when job hunting. They are incredibly important in case of an emergency, and with the decrease in the number of pay phones available, they are becoming even more important.

 

 

 

 

Maybe if you actually listened you would hear something a little different.

 

 

 

I seriously doubt that is what was actually said, but if you are that concerned about the budget, the billion dollars in subsidies flowing to corporate America would be a much better place to start.

 

You are free to seriously doubt anything you want. I don't lie. Ever. He was on Cavuto and it has gone viral. Google it.

[cdrumm4448]

You obviously have never spent much time volunteering with low-income groups. The food pantries I have worked in mostly dealt in shelf-stable items because so many of the families were homeless or lived in hotel rooms or campers without kitchens. No, they FREQUENTLY do not have homes or the opportunity for a landline./QUOTE]

 

You have no knowledge regarding how much time we spend volunteering. I firmly believe in PRIVATE charity.

[cdrumm4448]

I have to laugh at your being tires at watching your DH work a 12 hour workday. A 12 hour workday for my DH is a HOLIDAY. :lol:

Give me a break.

 

You're tired of this country being so far from its "origins?" You think we're the first generation to invent laziness?? So in 1776, everyone was a Ben Franklin, eh? That's never been the reality of the situation.

 

As for missing our country's origins... as a person who is 1/4 NA, I agree with you. There's the door, feel free to walk through it at anytime!!

 

My husband is a blue collar swing shift worker who works outside. He doesn't sit in a cubicle.

 

I didn't say we invented laziness. We cannot afford to keep throwing money away on entitlements that are EXPLODING. Has no one been watching Greece, Spain, Ireland?

[Lily_Grace]

This is part of the broken system. Our country refuses to pay some of our military a decent working wage, but encourages young enlisted families to go on gov't assistance.

 

I have to strongly disagree. No, the lower enlisted (E1-E2) may not make a whole lot, but the take-home salary was designed to support a single soldier. The greater part of the military makes good money. In addition to regular wages are benefits that include medical, low cost dental, a housing allowance, a subsidies allowance, extra duty pay for certain jobs/areas....

 

Military families are eligible for assistance because the system is broken, yes. The extra allowances and benefits are not counted when determining income. It is NOT because they are paid poorly.

[Mrs Mungo]

You obviously have never spent much time volunteering with low-income groups. The food pantries I have worked in mostly dealt in shelf-stable items because so many of the families were homeless or lived in hotel rooms or campers without kitchens. No, they FREQUENTLY do not have homes or the opportunity for a landline.

 

You have no knowledge regarding how much time we spend volunteering. I firmly believe in PRIVATE charity.

 

My experience tells me that if you are completely unaware of situations in which cell-phones are preferable over land-lines because so many people do not live in situations that would allow them the luxury of a land-line, then your experience is more limited than my own.

[Hannah C.]

Glad I wasn't drinking anything...it would have been all over my screen :D My husband has worked 16hrs a day. For several years, he worked EVERY SINGLE DAY...no days off accept an occasional few throughout the year. And they still got pissy with him when he got sick. They would whine to me on the phone, "are you sure he can't come in?" Uhm, no. When my husband gets sick, he gets severely sick. Every other time, slight cold or whatever, he works while dealing with it. He doesn't call in unless he has no other choice. Works that much and still qualified for welfare. Where's the laziness again?

 

It is employers like these which give people reason to think that some employers are basically abusive.

 

I can't think of a single good reason to force your employees to work every single day. Unless the employee is volunteering because they really need the money and the employer is okay with paying the overtime - in which case, it's not forcing. All the other reasons I can think of involve the employer being a jerk to their employees so that they can make more money.

[mommaduck]

We cannot afford to keep throwing money away on entitlements that are EXPLODING. Has no one been watching Greece, Spain, Ireland?

So your solution is?

[mommaduck]

This one's going on my fridge!!!!

 

I'm 100% with ya, right down to the NA heritage.

 

My husband is an electrician. He's been working longer-than-12 hour days in all weather, on his feet, climbing, digging, sweating, and straining, but he is d*mn thankful. D*mn thankful, and so am I.

 

He likes to work hard physically, because this is his chosen profession. He likes to work long hours, because it means a decent living for us after MONTHS off at a time since 2008.

 

Some American men pray for a shutdown, which is when some industry or factory turns everything off so the workers can build or repair. It means 16-18 hour days for several weeks, which is money. Money in the bank earned from a job well done means self-respect and independence.

 

One of my sons intends to follow in his father's footsteps to become a union electrician, an American skilled laborer, a hardworking blue-collar provider for his own family and for the poor. I couldn't be more proud.

 

Trying to imagine my dh, my Dad, either of my Grandpas, my brothers, or my friends whining about a 12hour swing shift day. Can't imagine that.

 

Trying to imagine myself, my Mom, either of my Grandmas, my SIL's, or any of my friends who are wives of non-white collar workers whining about missing DH while he works for a living half the day! Laughable!

Yep! Because that is the ONLY vacation our men get.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Yep! Because that is the ONLY vacation our men get.

 

You mean recession=vacation? Exactly!

[mommaduck]

It is employers like these which give people reason to think that some employers are basically abusive.

 

I can't think of a single good reason to force your employees to work every single day. Unless the employee is volunteering because they really need the money and the employer is okay with paying the overtime - in which case, it's not forcing. All the other reasons I can think of involve the employer being a jerk to their employees so that they can make more money.

It was forcing. He would have lost his job if he hadn't done it. It's a "right to work" state. There is no law here that says they have to give him a day off after so many days. He only left that job because he was being slowly poisoned by the black mold that should not have been there. He took a $5 hr paycut plus fewer hours to get out of there. We figured his life was worth more, even if it means we struggle more. I can't tell you the amount of health problems the workers there have. But many won't leave because they either won't be able to find a job elsewhere or they will have to take a paycut so severe that those that own their homes would lose them. (we rent)

Edited May 23, 2012 by mommaduck

[mommaduck]

You mean recession=vacation? Exactly!

:lol: It's one way to look at it (when you are working poor, you have to have a sense of humour. It's a matter of survival).

[itsheresomewhere]

I believe in being prepared in an emergency. We live in an industrialized area that sometimes requires emergency evacuation. The towns here reverse-911 people to notify them to evacuate. We are not able to reverse-911 to a cellphone.

 

They have fixed that. There is a service that you register your cellphone and it gives you the same info. If you area does not have that, demand it.

[QueenCat]

My point is? These soldiers make way more than minimum wage *and* have great benefits. *Many* of those on assistance have jobs and work hard. It just is not enough to make ends meet.

 

Minimum wage in NC is $7.25/hour. If you worked *two* full-time minimum wage jobs, then you'd make $2,320/month. An E-4 with dependents who has served for 4 years makes $2,487 base pay and receives a housing allowance of $1,023. They also receive free medical care and prescriptions for the entire family. We pay a VERY small fee for average dental insurance. The military actually gives special allowances to people with large families to keep them off of food-stamps, but they still qualify for WIC because you don't need to be below the poverty line to receive WIC.

 

So with base and housing, they make $3500 a month? I didn't realize that salary level would qualify for WIC. That's $42,000/year. Don't get me wrong, I do think we should pay our military enough to not qualify for WIC. I just didn't realize the threshold was that high.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Here are the guidelines:

 

http://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/howtoapply/incomeguidelines.htm

 

:blink: We totally qualify. I didn't know. (I mean, we would if I were pregnant or if our children were younger. My youngest is 7.) But I certainly thought our income was much too high to qualify for WIC. We used it briefly when DH was just starting the apprenticeship and my oldest two children were babies, but I hadn't looked into it since.

 

Didn't the cutoff used to be 125% of poverty line?

Edited May 23, 2012 by Tibbie Dunbar

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I don't know, but I know that WIC has generous cut offs compared with other programs.

 

I'm looking at food stamp eligibility in my state and we'd qualify for that, too.

 

:001_huh:

 

We didn't make the cutoff the last time I checked, so I think they must have upped it a bit. I'll do some research.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

That would be important for the nation to know as we keep hearing in the news about ever-increasing percentages of Americans on assistance. As always, what do the numbers mean?

[Mrs Mungo]

So with base and housing, they make $3500 a month? I didn't realize that salary level would qualify for WIC. That's $42,000/year. Don't get me wrong, I do think we should pay our military enough to not qualify for WIC. I just didn't realize the threshold was that high.

 

Cut-offs for WIC are fairly high, because it is only about providing nutritious food for young kids and pregnant moms. Also, the housing allowance is not counted when figuring income for most purposes.

 

:blink: We totally qualify. I didn't know. (I mean, we would if I were pregnant or if our children were younger. My youngest is 7.) But I certainly thought our income was much too high to qualify for WIC. We used it briefly when DH was just starting the apprenticeship and my oldest two children were babies, but I hadn't looked into it since.

 

Didn't the cutoff used to be 125% of poverty line?

 

The cutoff is now 185% at or below the poverty line because food expenses have increased a huge amount in recent years, but wages haven't.

[TranquilMind]

This is part of the broken system. Our country refuses to pay some of our military a decent working wage, but encourages young enlisted families to go on gov't assistance.

 

Agree that this is whacked.

 

And it is also a red herring. This sort of thing - hard working soldiers - isn't even REMOTELY what the OP is complaining about.

[Renee in NC]

Just curious, but how is "welfare" being defined in the figures above?

 

In 2011, $466 billion (13%) of the federal budget was spent on programs that provide aid to families in need. This includes EITC, SSI, food stamps, school meals, etc..

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1258

 

Our largest federal expenditures were on defense ($718 billion/20%), social security ($731 billion/20%), and Medicare/Medicaid/CHIP ($769 billion/21% - the bulk of which went to Medicare).

 

They include everything remotely considered "charity" including unemployment, Pell grants, social security, medicare, free lunch, medicaid, etc. If it means that the gov't pays someone for something that benefits a person that not everyone qualifies for, then it is "welfare." Most of that *isn't* means tested, despite their claims to the contrary! It just stirs up some sort of hysteria that our country is going down in flames because of poor people.

 

The linked report from the Heritage Foundation was published in 2009. So, the years being discussed are 2010, 2011, and 2012. The total budgets for those years were $11.17 trillion. So, pretty much everything except the interest payments on our debt was welfare.

 

Maybe someone should send the Heritage Foundation a copy of TWTM with highlighted sections for "critical thinking" and "math."

 

ETA: The Heritage Foundation, much like any other political organization depends on donations and legacy gifts for their funding. The best way to get people to donate is to stir up emotion. Many such organizations (and they cover the political spectrum) do so through fear and/or outrage. I am not a big fan of "think tanks" if for no other reason than there is no accountability to anyone other than those who support them. So, I would prefer to do my own research into the issues rather than relying on someone with an agenda, whatever it may be.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Renee in FL

[Mrs Mungo]

Agree that this is whacked.

 

And it is also a red herring. This sort of thing - hard working soldiers - isn't even REMOTELY what the OP is complaining about.

 

It is not a red herring when so many people in the thread equate being on any sort of assistance with laziness and/or not working. Once you include benefits, those soldiers are receiving a compensation package that is *easily* four times that of your average person making minimum wage, but they *still* qualify for certain types of assistance.

 

The original post was a vent about someone specific. But, even then the poster admitted that some of the claims of the couple were questionable. People are often full of it. She doesn't actually know the full story there. Do I disapprove of the actions of some people that I know? Of course, but I usually just sort of roll my eyes and move on.

[SKL]

It is not a red herring when so many people in the thread equate being on any sort of assistance with laziness and/or not working. Once you include benefits, those soldiers are receiving a compensation package that is *easily* four times that of your average person making minimum wage, but they *still* qualify for certain types of assistance.

 

The original post was a vent about someone specific. But, even then the poster admitted that some of the claims of the couple were questionable. People are often full of it. She doesn't actually know the full story there. Do I disapprove of the actions of some people that I know? Of course, but I usually just sort of roll my eyes and move on.

 

I didn't see anyone do this (the bolded). I saw a few people comment on what appear to be subsidized luxuries - particularly luxuries that the working class often can't afford. I saw not one person imply that assistance means laziness. Why do people keep misrepresenting?

 

As for your repeated implication that the OP is probably full of it, do you seriously deny that there are people who abuse the system, and that the OP (and others) personally know some of them? The point is that it's irritating to see people flagrantly milk the system when they don't need to. Basically it's the exact opposite of what you seem to be beating up here.

[TranquilMind]

Mrs Mungo: It is not a red herring when so many people in the thread equate being on any sort of assistance with laziness and/or not working.

 

No one equated "being on any sort of assistance with laziness and/or not working."

 

Everyone was pretty careful to say that there are many legitimate cases where people need help. The OP was complaining about someone who was not in any of those categories like elderly, disabled, etc...but still would not work because it was more convenient not to.

 

 

Once you include benefits, those soldiers are receiving a compensation package that is *easily* four times that of your average person making minimum wage, but they *still* qualify for certain types of assistance.

 

And I agreed that this is pathetic.

[Jennifer3141]

They have fixed that. There is a service that you register your cellphone and it gives you the same info. If you area does not have that, demand it.

 

:iagree:

 

We have it and we live in the middle of nowhere. Clearly, her local government isn't working hard enough. :glare:

[Hannah C.]

It was forcing. He would have lost his job if he hadn't done it. It's a "right to work" state. There is no law here that says they have to give him a day off after so many days. He only left that job because he was being slowly poisoned by the black mold that should not have been there. He took a $5 hr paycut plus fewer hours to get out of there. We figured his life was worth more, even if it means we struggle more. I can't tell you the amount of health problems the workers there have. But many won't leave because they either won't be able to find a job elsewhere or they will have to take a paycut so severe that those that own their homes would lose them. (we rent)

 

:grouphug:

 

We live in a right to work state as well, but I've never had a relative work in a factory.

 

Treatment like that is inhumane and should be illegal. Actually, it probably is, but no one's doing anything about it.

 

I'm glad your husband was able to find another job.

[Heidi]

Government assistance is legalized plunder. It will always be wrong.

Financial assistance should be voluntary, through private organizations.

[tex-mex]

 

I didn't say we invented laziness. We cannot afford to keep throwing money away on entitlements that are EXPLODING. Has no one been watching Greece, Spain, Ireland?

 

Well, on a positive note... if one is a Christian, then they could suggest that the destruction of the world economy is just one step closer to the Antichrist and then Armaggedon. No worries. It is all going to burn. :D Glass half-full kind of a person, here.

 

*Sorry folks... I just could NOT resist that one. LOLOLOLOL :lol::lol:

 

(Hijack over... please resume to your normal posting.)

[mommaduck]

:grouphug:

 

We live in a right to work state as well, but I've never had a relative work in a factory.

 

Treatment like that is inhumane and should be illegal. Actually, it probably is, but no one's doing anything about it.

 

I'm glad your husband was able to find another job.

Thanks, and you are right, it should be illegal. No one will risk their job to do anything about it.