so... what do y'all think of Octomom?

[butterflymommy]

That's more than my dh makes in a month. What state does she live in?

 

California. High COL but we're in an equally high COL area and have lived decently (albeit VERY frugally) on less.

[nova147]

These are not questions that are easily answered and should be dealt with on a case by case basis as each person and situation is different.

 

But I will ask the question to you about your friend if they are recieving public aid. Why should the public have to support their children. Agian I don't know this family and they may not be reciveing aid. But I am asking the question in general. My husband and I have had a talk and we have three kids and we can support them. Truthfully I would love to have more children but we can't afford to have more. Why would it be okay to have more and rely on the assistance of others to take care of my children?

 

Your question is more about what government should pay for than about people having or not having children. Should the government be in the business of making sure people have food, shelter, health care? There is obviously a great deal of disagreement over this in the US, and probably most places.

[gardening momma]

California. High COL but we're in an equally high COL area and have lived decently (albeit VERY frugally) on less.

I realized that after I posted. I also realized I was comparing my family of 4's income to her family of 15's income. I changed my post.

[Mimm]

I know many judge her for having "too many" kids, but as a mom of many children myself I can't fault her for that. :

 

 

Why not? :p I judge her for this. She had a bunch of kids with no way to take care of them financially. She really had no plan at all for how she was going to house them or pay for them or feed them or anything. Sorry, I'm not going to admire someone for not doing porn. :p

[catz]

Why not? :p I judge her for this. She had a bunch of kids with no way to take care of them financially. She really had no plan at all for how she was going to house them or pay for them or feed them or anything. Sorry, I'm not going to admire someone for not doing porn. :p

 

:iagree: Have as many kids as you think you can take care of financially and emotionally. But when you're having them purposefully when you can't and you're living on tax dollars, you're crossing a line. I'm not opposed to public assistance and I tend to vote liberal, but this is crossing a line. Public assistance should be for emergency situations.

 

I think she has serious mental health problems. I have no issues with the humane society ad. At least she's earning some money. I try not to think of her too much because it makes me crazy thinking about those poor children.

[Murphy101]

Meh.

 

I think the root of the evil here is IVF. It forces a situation that should never have been and then gives authority that should never be.

 

They took a bunch of embryos and then the decision becomes, which embryos will be given a chance to live or not. (Nadia chose all of them, which I actually agree with. I could no more decide which of my unborn children to selectively abort than I could decide which of my born children to get rid of. I simply cannot do that.)

 

Then we have this situation where people are actually advocating that drs should have the right to make the decision whether she gets pregnant at all and with how many? If people think that's okay with IVF, why not other situations? Are some actually saying the only difference in a woman having that right is the method of conception?

 

Then if they have the babies, even if they are kept healthy, it's still okay to hate her. Because she is single. Because she is poor. Because she did porn. (nm how many husbands are watching porn. Or that many women who do porn are mothers.)

 

Meh. I hate IVF. If it didn't exist, these issues wouldn't exist.

 

But it does and now those kids do.

 

And anything sort of a loving response is unchristian.

 

Frankly, I don't see how the animal spaying PSA is any worse than millions of people saying her dr should be out of practice for letting her have those babies.

 

Most of my kids wouldn't get the animal to babies connection.

 

Pretty hard to miss the whole we hate your dr and mom for being irresponsible enough to let you exist connection tho.

 

I don't agree with any of it.

 

But I don't mind in the least that her children are getting what they need.

 

Plenty of other stuff I can get mad about my taxes being spent on.

[SKL]

Considering the fact that there has never before been a set of octuplets that survived, and it is even pretty rare for conceived triplets to survive, I'm sure she did not expect to have eight living children to care for.

 

I do agree 100% with her not selectively aborting.

 

I also do not like IVF. If it is going to be used, at least they should never implant more than they reasonably expect to survive (and be wanted). Otherwise it's essentially creating a life just to kill it. Doesn't fit into my value system. But I don't blame her personally for trying it, because the practice isn't that unusual (or wasn't at the time); what's unusual is the survival of so many.

 

I don't understand why she's such a hate magnet when there are plenty of other single men and women in the USA who have many children on the dole. And many of them are worse parents than she appears to be.

 

It would be such a simple thing to just give this woman a little peace. She has her fair share of God-given struggles. So what if her kids are among the tens of millions whose meals and diapers are subsidized for a while?

 

I pray for these children to grow up strong and smart and prove the haters wrong.

[BigMamaBird]

I'm sad for her kids, but other than that, I don't really care.

[BakersDozen]

I hate IVF. If it didn't exist, these issues wouldn't exist.

 

 

I don't know if I agree with this. I'm thinking of the many large families who live where I am who are on welfare of every kind yet continue to pop out babies. One family is on their 11th baby-to-be and have utilized public assistance for what should be emergency situations as their foundation in life. These families did not do IVF.

 

IMO, the root of the evil is selfishness, irresponsibility, and entitlement. All those things that make up American society as we know it whether one has one dc or 14: "My choice, your responsibility, everyone's problem."

 

So what if her kids are among the tens of millions whose meals and diapers are subsidized for a while?

 

 

Because it isn't "for a while". It will be years and years of astonishing cost to the taxpayers. Because those of us who choose to be responsible are infuriated by the absolute wrongness of anyone - Octomom included - living off of others when they could have paid their own way. She made a choice and now others get to pay for her choice. She didn't wake up and find herself pregnant with octuplets; she had $ and she used it to conceive these babies when she should have used the $ to provide for her other dc. The entire situation stinks as does the system that supports people like this.

[SKL]

Because those of us who choose to be responsible are infuriated by the absolute wrongness of anyone - Octomom included - living off of others when they could have paid their own way.

 

Well, I don't like the system of entitlement for bad choices either, but why concentrate all the hate onto this one family, where it is obvious that God (if you believe in God) chose to work a miracle?

[SKL]

By the way, most American parents do get subsidized by the taxpayers for each additional child that they have. For those who pay taxes, it's called a personal exemption, and for many the child tax credit, earned income credit, etc. So even those who are not officially on the "dole" still cost the Treasury for each child they add to this earth. Also, most health insurance premiums don't go up after the first child, so that cost gets spread around (and will presumably become a taxpayer cost if the current healthcare trend continues).

[Murphy101]

I don't hear anyone telling old people, "Too bad! You should have worked or saved or whatever better! Work til you drop dead!"

 

There are plenty of old people who will be living off the dole in some form or other for the last 20 years of their lives.

 

I just don't care about it anymore.

 

Of all the fraud and stupid laws and other things my taxes are wasted on, this stuff just does not even hit my radar.

 

Unless there is fraud being committed, then I just don't care if people who qualify use the system. I sure don't begrudge them their food.

 

No one is getting rich off of legitimately qualifying for any state program. Most of the programs are a PITA to qualify for even if you are that low on the income totem.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Martha

[Murphy101]

By the way, most American parents do get subsidized by the taxpayers for each additional child that they have. For those who pay taxes, it's called a personal exemption, and for many the child tax credit, earned income credit, etc. So even those who are not officially on the "dole" still cost the Treasury for each child they add to this earth. Also, most health insurance premiums don't go up after the first child, so that cost gets spread around (and will presumably become a taxpayer cost if the current healthcare trend continues).

 

They make it sound like everyone qualifies for these things. They don't. EIC cap is 50k income, which might seem like a lot, but it isn't. Especially in some areas of the country and certainly for a very large family. I *think* there is a cap to how many kids we get child tax credit for too. Iirc it is 4 children. I'd have to dig out our taxes.

 

I'd love to have your health insurance rosey outlook.

 

Our insurance for the last decade has always been broken down:

Single

Single +partner

Single w or wo partner + up to 2 children

Single w or wo partner + 3 or more children

 

Personally, I'd love to meet these people who are making money off of having babies. Got 10 here and I've yet to make a dime off of any of them. Little money pits is what they are. So if anyone has a legal method of making money having kids that doesn't involve my bedroom or a tv camera - please let me know!

[Paige]

I feel terribly sad for her family. I don't think it matters how many bad choices she may have made to get where she is now. It's over and there's now so many children who are real, valuable, precious people with feelings who are innocent and suffering.

 

I think it is horrible that these kids will grow up hearing about how so many people think they shouldn't have been born. I think their mother obviously has had mental issues. Maybe she now realizes it and is getting help or is even healthy now, but she can't undo what she's done. She has a tremendous responsibility as single parent to so many kids and so many kids with special needs. It's too much to ask of 1 person, yet because she was/is ill, made poor choices, and people are angry, she is receiving very little grace and compassion. I think she's trying to do her best now, but it's an impossible situation without help. Maybe she's not handing it well and maybe she's continuing to make bad choices, but who would handle her situation well?? I don't begrudge her gvmt support. Do we want the kids to starve or not receive therapies that may help them become independent adults? I feel only sadness for her situation and wish the family the best for the future. I realize all of this is her fault, but that doesn't mean she and the children should suffer forever. It's just that her mistakes were so much longer lasting and public than mine. And I'm not calling the children mistakes- I'm calling her choices and behavior before they were conceived mistakes. IMO, the children are visible reminders of her mistakes, but they are also her comfort, her future, and a blessing to the world. 14 lives....who knows how many people they may impact over the next several generations?

[ThisIsTheDay]

By the way, most American parents do get subsidized by the taxpayers for each additional child that they have. For those who pay taxes, it's called a personal exemption, and for many the child tax credit, earned income credit, etc. So even those who are not officially on the "dole" still cost the Treasury for each child they add to this earth.

 

This does not COST the Treasury money. The Treasury is getting less money through taxes in this way. There is a world of difference here.

 

Not even figuring into that equation is the fact that when people have more children, they tend to pay more taxes at the local level--groceries, clothing, medicine, school supplies. They also may have larger vehicles which usually translates to more gas and possibly more traveling--all of which means they are paying more in taxes this way.

 

I have a small family. But to say that large families COST the Treasury is just plain incorrect. It's pretty simple to see where the money comes from.

[tuzor]

Personally, I'd love to meet these people who are making money off of having babies. Got 10 here and I've yet to make a dime off of any of them. Little money pits is what they are. So if anyone has a legal method of making money having kids that doesn't involve my bedroom or a tv camera - please let me know!

 

Well there is paid surrogacy. Not my cup of tea but plenty of women rent their wombs.

[Live2Ride]

as little as possible.

:iagree:

[butterflymommy]

I think it is horrible that these kids will grow up hearing about how so many people think they shouldn't have been born.

 

This is what troubles me the most. And the fact that she would be part and parcel to the sentiment in some of her public statements and actions is all the more disturbing. If nothing else, she needs to be a steady and vocal advocate for their right to be alive and to exist.

[butterflymommy]

Personally, I'd love to meet these people who are making money off of having babies. Got 10 here and I've yet to make a dime off of any of them. Little money pits is what they are. So if anyone has a legal method of making money having kids that doesn't involve my bedroom or a tv camera - please let me know!

 

Some women make money off their family blogs or by writing books about family life/ household organizing/ recipes & food planning. I think nadya could have pulled something like this off if she weren't so completely cuckoo and creepy.

[butterflymommy]

Why not? :p I judge her for this. She had a bunch of kids with no way to take care of them financially. She really had no plan at all for how she was going to house them or pay for them or feed them or anything. Sorry, I'm not going to admire someone for not doing porn. :p

 

When I was first pregnant I had no plan either... I just hoped for the best. And I continued to have children even though by most standards we couldn't afford them. We qualified for, but never took, assistance. This is why I don't judge her for having so many children while in less than ideal financial circumstances.

 

I have to agree somewhat with a previous poster that the technology of IVF was complicit. Because if she'd just gotten pregnant sequentially by 14 different baby daddies, yes, she probably would have gotten some attention, but nowhere near the level of hate and publicity she currently receives.

[Slartibartfast]

I feel terrible for her children, not because of their mom being weird but because how everyone is treating their family.

 

I would feel pretty badly if the whole country mocked my family and reviled my mother for bringing me into this world.

 

If people are tearing their hair out over food stamps I for one am curious about all the therapy that is going to need to be provided for the children of this family that receives so much hateful attentions.

 

I am a Christian and my heart aches for them. I hope they can find some peace without people destroying their property, sending them hate mail, chasing them around with cameras, calling cps on them, the list seems to go on and on.

 

I don't care. The mom could be the craziest chick on the planet but no kids deserve this sort of treatment.

 

They are in my prayers.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Sis

[Soror]

I think it is very, very, very sad situation for all and I wish the best for them. I think the family needs prayers.

[awisha.]

I doubt they give it a second thought. I'm sure she didn't sit down with them and say, "Now, children, I am going to do some work to publicize the need to spay and neuter your animals to prevent the births of millions of unwanted and homeless animals. And isn't it ironic that someone with octuplets is doing this? Maybe I should have been spayed, ha ha!"

 

I doubt the kids see any sort of connection.

 

Tara

 

I think she's mentally imbalanced, and it has to have been clear before the doctor aided her in what I see as basically a crime against those children. The doctor is morally reprehensible, and honestly, I think the "mother" should either seek mental health services (And I'm ok with paying for that), or be strongly encouraged to have those children adopted by loving parents who are better equipped to provide for their needs.

 

Not politically correct at all, but there you go. I'm like that about children.

 

I don't care how many kids she has. She doesn't take care of them. That article even stated about her locking them in bedrooms to get her hair cut with chairs stuck against them. If you have 500 for a haircut you have no business being on welfare at all.

 

Why not? :p I judge her for this. She had a bunch of kids with no way to take care of them financially. She really had no plan at all for how she was going to house them or pay for them or feed them or anything. Sorry, I'm not going to admire someone for not doing porn. :p

 

:iagree:

 

She is an incredibly selfish and stupid woman. I feel sorry her children because they are the innocent ones in this situation. They need to be adopted out so they have a chance of a normal, loving, caring life. :glare:

[Murphy101]

Well there is paid surrogacy. Not my cup of tea but plenty of women rent their wombs.

 

Nope. No mortal sins for me. :)

 

This is what troubles me the most. And the fact that she would be part and parcel to the sentiment in some of her public statements and actions is all the more disturbing. If nothing else, she needs to be a steady and vocal advocate for their right to be alive and to exist.

 

See tho she can't win. If she were to EVER admit that this sucks and is hard and she was wrong - well then she is part and parcel to the sentiment that her children shouldn't have been conceived, much less birthed.

 

If she sticks to the sentiment that she loves her kids and is glad they are alive, despite whatever troubles she might have, then she is a naive irresponsible idiot.

 

No win no matter what her past or current POV is.

 

Some women make money off their family blogs or by writing books about family life/ household organizing/ recipes & food planning. I think nadya could have pulled something like this off if she weren't so completely cuckoo and creepy.

 

Huh. No way I'll ever make any money off my blog. And if I had time to write a book, I'm guessing there wouldn't be much to write about. I think most books by large families are actually ghost writers. And even then they don't make enough to live off of. There just isn't much profit for most writers. Only a rare select few make big bucks.

 

And really, imnsho, people don't really want to hear the nitty gritty details of how I do things. They want easy answers. And the truth is harsh reality dictates the vast majority of my decisions and parenting.

[Mrs Mungo]

I am a Christian and my heart aches for them. I hope they can find some peace without people destroying their property, sending them hate mail, chasing them around with cameras, calling cps on them, the list seems to go on and on.

 

Hm. I agree with part of this, but not all.

 

1. I have known several women who have gone through IVF. None ever had 8-12 embryos implanted (depending on whose story you believe). She wanted to be pregnant with that many babies for the attention. It was not an act of compassion.

 

2. She has hardly tried to stay out of the public eye, quite the opposite.

 

3. The hairdresser was a friend of hers. Sometimes, calling CPS is the best thing you can do for a child or group of children.

 

4. Do I have compassion for these kids? Absolutely. I have compassion for lots of kids who have been raised in an unfit environment. But, that does not magically make her a decent parent. She needs help, and I don't mean more financial aid.

[Mommy22alyns]

Why not? :p I judge her for this. She had a bunch of kids with no way to take care of them financially. She really had no plan at all for how she was going to house them or pay for them or feed them or anything. Sorry, I'm not going to admire someone for not doing porn. :p

 

 

Oh, good, someone else already said it! :iagree:

[Audrey]

She is mentally ill. She needs serious professional care.

[Veritaserum]

1. I have known several women who have gone through IVF. None ever had 8-12 embryos implanted (depending on whose story you believe). She wanted to be pregnant with that many babies for the attention. It was not an act of compassion.

 

:iagree: Seriously, the hate on IVF is unfounded. When a woman goes through the long process of fertility medications to retrieve eggs, she's hoping to have 1-2 healthy-looking embryos to transfer. If ten eggs are retrived and 8 fertilize normally, there might be 5-6 still growing at transfer time. The one (or two, if the couple is ok with twins) that the embryologist determines to have the best shot at implanting gets transferred. The others, if they continue to grow, get frozen in case the fresh transfer doesn't stick (or to go back for a sibling). Fertility doctors are not keen on transferring more embryos than is safe for the mother or the babies.

 

I'm personally very glad that assisted reproductive technologies exist, even though they can be abused by crazies like Octomom and her doctor. The crazies are the rare exception, not the rule.