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I need wisdom: Switch from Singapore to TT?


HappyDoopy
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I didn't make it past 3rd grade math myself. Really.

 

My eldest is in 3rd now ... we've been "enjoying" Singapore (truthfully, she loathes math, but I've enjoyed math for the first time ever! ha!). So now that we're encountering long division, I'm maxed out as far as ability and patience and time. I've got three youngers & I just really don't want to spend a lot of time on math. I know math is important buuuuut ...

 

I'm torn because in my head Singapore (and other such programs - mastery??) is superior, while doing something like TT feels like I'm bailing out. I definitely put far too high standards on myself as a teacher/mom (yikes! don't we all?!) ... I just want to do what's BEST & I'm realizing that the greater good is that we do math at all these days. (yikes again!)

 

I'd love any wisdom/encouragement/advice from you all. I mostly just lurk here when I have a free moment, but I'm grateful for the community here!!

 

Thanks in advance,

sarah

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When my oldest encountered long division and fractions with Singapore, I could see the programs was just not a good fit for him. Like you, I loved Singapore. We did eventually try TT and it was a very good fit. It freed up time for me to spend with the younger two.

 

I've read of other posters adding Singapore Challenging Word Problems to other programs. Perhaps that might work for you? Something like TT 4 days a week and CWP on Fridays or something?

 

Good luck as you make math work for your family.

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The best curriculum choice is the one that gets done.

 

It's not as prettily said as the quote I saw in someone's siggy here on the boards but the idea of it sure has stuck with me since I read it.. We use MUS also but my dd8 loves TT! And bonus the 3 year old loves to sit and watch her do it so who knows what he is absorbing=D

 

FWIW, I think that your daughter might start to really like math if you switched. If Singapore's CWP's is not a good fit, you might try out Critical Thinking Co's Mathematical Reasoning workbook. Touted as a complete curriculum in and of itself.. it looks like solid math skills taught in fun, colorful worksheets. It might be a good supplement to TT if you are concerned about it not being as challenging as Singapore.

 

Good luck to you!

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I suspect that if your daughter doesn't care for math she might really enjoy the TT lessons. Go to their website and give it a go with the practice lessons available on their website.

 

Look for TT used, you can save significantly & any used 3rd grade math will be reasonably current as it's reasonably new to their curriculum.

 

Having said that, my boys are strong in math. We used TT for a year because I needed a break from a lot of things I was doing. Math was one. It was good. They enjoyed it. We aren't using it this year, but that's okay.

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We used Singapore's elementary levels, and then one of mine moved into TT and one into LOF. With Singapore, at least as it was a few years ago, the teacher needed to have a good grasp of math theory and practice, so if you don't, I'd suggest moving to something else. My non-math loving child is doing very well with TT, though we only have one year left (Pre-Calc) before we run out of the series and will have to find something else for Calculus. He appreciates the instruction and the fact that there's a full explanation for any problem he misses.

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The best curriculum choice is the one that gets done.

 

 

 

I totally agree with this! I also understand feeling like you are bailing on your kid. But, there are many math programs out there for a reason.

 

The best math program is the one where your child is consistently making progress.

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For me I would try Math Mammoth first, and TT would be pretty near the bottom of the list of math programs I would try because of its poor reputation. I want my kids to have a rock-solid conceptual understanding of math, and be able to handle STEM coursework at a top college if they so desire. I don't think TT would achieve either of those goals based on what I've seen of it and all the negative things I've heard about it, while Singapore or MM would.

 

Math Mammoth is like Singapore only more step-by-step-by-step and Maria Miller's explanations are amazing. Try the "blue" Division 2 worktext. It is inexpensive and it really is excellent.

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Despite the nonsense here about TT being no good worthless and horrible (Giant eyeroll), it got my ds back on track when singapore confounded him. I would without hesitation recommend TT as a decent investment and a sound choice for math for the math confused or the math reluctant and absolutely for a math phobic parent.

 

For a math competent child there are many other choices which are ore challenging. But TT gets the job done. It may not be honors level in the high school math department but it is definitely good solid instruction. That's why Sonlight and other dealers consistently recommend it for moms teaching students at home- bc its good and easy to use.

 

:iagree:diehard TT fans here. We went from arguments and fierce struggles to teach math to fighting over who gets to do math first daily. I help SOME but not always. I have seen such a great improvement in their mental math skills with TT as well. We switched from MM

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The Well Trained Mind lists Teaching Textbooks as a suitable math program:

... response from the home-schooling community has been very positive and test scores seem to be high. Teaching Textbooks is not dependent on parent expertise, and offers a seamless transition from arithmetic on into high-school level mathematics.

 

For me I would try Math Mammoth first, and TT would be pretty near the bottom of the list of math programs I would try because of its poor reputation. I want my kids to have a rock-solid conceptual understanding of math, and be able to handle STEM coursework at a top college if they so desire. I don't think TT would achieve either of those goals based on what I've seen of it and all the negative things I've heard about it, while Singapore or MM would.

 

Math Mammoth is like Singapore only more step-by-step-by-step and Maria Miller's explanations are amazing. Try the "blue" Division 2 worktext. It is inexpensive and it really is excellent.

 

There are plenty of people here that LOVE Teaching Textbooks! I happen to be one of them. :)

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259625

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=342781

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=278460

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=276838

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=288459

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275896

 

Here's a comment from another mom that's not confident in math.

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3078898&postcount=3

 

TT also offers free tutoring.

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=340117

Edited by Shellers
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And I could come up with an equally long list of threads with people saying very negative things about TT. :rolleyes:

 

My kids would suddenly become a lot more positive about vegetables if I allowed them to only eat French Fries, but that wouldn't be good for their health. Frankly, I see the whole "my kid hated math until we tried TT!" meme as the same kind of situation...

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And I could come up with an equally long list of threads with people saying very negative things about TT. :rolleyes:

 

My kids would suddenly become a lot more positive about vegetables if I allowed them to only eat French Fries, but that wouldn't be good for their health. Frankly, I see the whole "my kid hated math until we tried TT!" meme as the same kind of situation...

 

Comparing TT to eating french fries, really? :blink:

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For me I would try Math Mammoth first, and TT would be pretty near the bottom of the list of math programs I would try because of its poor reputation. I want my kids to have a rock-solid conceptual understanding of math, and be able to handle STEM coursework at a top college if they so desire. I don't think TT would achieve either of those goals based on what I've seen of it and all the negative things I've heard about it, while Singapore or MM would.

 

Math Mammoth is like Singapore only more step-by-step-by-step and Maria Miller's explanations are amazing. Try the "blue" Division 2 worktext. It is inexpensive and it really is excellent.

 

I agree.

 

Your dd is still a third grader. It means, she 'just' mastered multiplication and division, and perhaps column multiplication. It's completely normal for a third grader to take a long time to work out the long division. It's not S-pore per se (I think). It's the LONG DIVISION. It's no guarantee that she will proceed faster w/ TT. Long division IS long division. How come TT's lng division is different from S-pore's ?

 

If the problem is more of you teaching your dd (as in, you want a relieve from teaching her), then it makes sense to switch to TT (let the comp. does it for you). Personally thoughr, there's no way I would relegate my teaching duty (third grade math) to a comp. program.

 

If the problem occurs because you don't know how to teach her because S-pore's way is weird, then I agree with Crimson Wife in that you should try one of the Math Mammoth Blue series. Somebody in this board gives a good analogy of S-pore vs Math Mammoth in that doing S-pore is like walking on step stones. Sometimes, the stones are too far apart that you fell down into the pond. MM, in contrary, gives you a solid 'bridge' so that you won't fell down into the pond.

 

Keep working w/ your third grader. It's normal for a child to get challenged by long division. Your dd is still third grade anyway, and I don't think that a third grader is expected to master that.

 

My fourth grader is still sloughing through long division, though it's the more difficult version of it, e.g. 6548:72. It takes almost half year to practice long division from conceptual stage to short division to easier long division ( few digits divided by one digit) to the more difficult one (few digits divided by two digits).

 

So don't be discouraged.

Edited by mom2moon2
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Comparing TT to eating french fries, really? :blink:

 

French Fries may technically be a vegetable and they will provide enough nourishment to keep someone alive, but there are so many better vegetable options out there from which to choose, even if they aren't as well-liked by children as French Fries...

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I agree.

 

Your dd is still a third grader. It means, she 'just' mastered multiplication and division, and perhaps column multiplication. It's completely normal for a third grader to take a long time to work out the long division.

 

:iagree:I have never tried TT, but we stumbled in 3A with Singapore with long division. It was a nightmare. So we switched several times to several different math programs. All we accomplished were gaps b/c they all had different scope and sequences. So I would say not to switch unless you know that you are going to stick with whatever you switch to for the long haul.

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I agree.

 

Your dd is still a third grader. It means, she 'just' mastered multiplication and division, and perhaps column multiplication. It's completely normal for a third grader to take a long time to work out the long division. It's not S-pore per se (I think). It's the LONG DIVISION. It's no guarantee that she will proceed faster w/ TT. Long division IS long division. How come TT's lng division is different from S-pore's ?

 

If the problem is more of you teaching your dd (as in, you want a relieve from teaching her), then it makes sense to switch to TT (let the comp. does it for you). Personally thoughr, there's no way I would relegate my teaching duty (third grade math) to a comp. program.

 

If the problem occurs because you don't know how to teach her because S-pore's way is weird, then I agree with Crimson Wife in that you should try one of the Math Mammoth Blue series. Somebody in this board gives a good analogy of S-pore vs Math Mammoth in that doing S-pore is like walking on step stones. Sometimes, the stones are too far apart that you fell down into the pond. MM, in contrary, gives you a solid 'bridge' so that you won't fell down into the pond.

 

 

 

Agree, agree, agree.

 

You will find positive and negative opinions of any program all over the boards. For some reason, though, there are some programs that people seem to get very defensive about, as though having an opinion about a math program is a personal attack. :confused: TT is one of these.

 

IMO at the third grade level, a child is much better off if the parent does not relegate instruction to the computer, but rather works ahead to be able to teach the content effectively herself. If Singapore were not clicking, there are other strong programs (MM is one, but there are others) that I would choose before TT.

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Math is the hardest part of homeschooling for me. I love math, I understand it intuitively, my undergraduate degree is in math. My dd struggles. We started with Singapore and I stuck with it longer than I should have. I stuck with it because I liked it and because I felt like it "should" work. Finally, last summer we switched to CLE. It was the best choice I could have made (although the religious content makes it less than perfect). Sometimes, for whatever reason, the curriculum doesn't fit. There are so many choices out there, why make things harder than they need to be. The important thing is that you teach the math and keep progressing. I think you could use TT or another program and if you feel some conceptual stuff is lacking, add something. It isn't like by switching curriculum you are dropping math and dooming your child to a life of unmet potential. I say find a program you can work with, that meets your goals, and go with it :001_smile:

 

Noelle

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I love TT, and not because it frees me up, or has the computer doing my "job". I sit with my daughter during the entire lesson - lecture and all problems. We discuss as we go along, and then she completes the coresponding lesson in the workbook. Math is my daughter's favorite subject and one that she naturally excells at, and TT is a great fit for us. Some will like it, some won't - as with any curriculum. I wasn't a fan of WWE, but that doesn't mean it's not a a good program, it's just not a good program for us.

 

I could not recommend TT any higher, but ultimately you will have to find what fits you and your child best. The TT website has sample lectures and lessons so that you can get a pretty good feel as to what it's like and should be able to see if it will work for you.

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For me I would try Math Mammoth first, and TT would be pretty near the bottom of the list of math programs I would try because of its poor reputation. I want my kids to have a rock-solid conceptual understanding of math, and be able to handle STEM coursework at a top college if they so desire. I don't think TT would achieve either of those goals based on what I've seen of it and all the negative things I've heard about it, while Singapore or MM would.

 

Math Mammoth is like Singapore only more step-by-step-by-step and Maria Miller's explanations are amazing. Try the "blue" Division 2 worktext. It is inexpensive and it really is excellent.

 

I applaud your goals. Not everyone follows the same path. Handing out advice about a program you've never used might be premature. You could have simply recommended Math Mammoth.

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:iagree:diehard TT fans here. We went from arguments and fierce struggles to teach math to fighting over who gets to do math first daily. I help SOME but not always. I have seen such a great improvement in their mental math skills with TT as well. We switched from MM

 

Same here. I was too much of an academic snob to even consider TT, based on the negatives I read here, until after we bought and tried almost every other math program. Now I wish I had tried it in the beginning. I almost killed my child's desire to learn math. He might never be able to calculate long math problems in his head, but he knows arithmetic and I doubt if he will ever be in a situation where he can't find a pen or paper, and if speed is a matter of life or death when he needs to compute I hope that the death star he is on will have a calculator. :D

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:iagree:diehard TT fans here. We went from arguments and fierce struggles to teach math to fighting over who gets to do math first daily. I help SOME but not always. I have seen such a great improvement in their mental math skills with TT as well. We switched from MM

 

Agree, agree, agree.

 

You will find positive and negative opinions of any program all over the boards. For some reason, though, there are some programs that people seem to get very defensive about, as though having an opinion about a math program is a personal attack. :confused: TT is one of these.

 

IMO at the third grade level, a child is much better off if the parent does not relegate instruction to the computer, but rather works ahead to be able to teach the content effectively herself. If Singapore were not clicking, there are other strong programs (MM is one, but there are others) that I would choose before TT.

 

 

You wonder why people get defensively about using TT, when it is compared to allowing our children to eat only French fries for vegetables? If French fries were the only vegetable a parent served their child, most would agree that was child abuse or at least child neglect. So to logically follow the comparison we are abusing or neglecting our children by using TT. That isn't even a thinly veiled insult, but rather a condescending slap in the face, as well as dead wrong. I am going to step out on a limb here and assume that many of our historically great scientists did very well with conventional math and advanced mankind just fine before Singapore or "new math" even existed. In many ways this reminds me of the phonics, whole language, debate, where the pendulum swung back and forth when in reality a child is probably best served by a combination of both, and the real issue is what works for an individual child.

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You wonder why people get defensively about using TT, when it is compared to allowing our children to eat only French fries for vegetables? If French fries were the only vegetable a parent served their child, most would agree that was child abuse or at least child neglect. So to logically follow the comparison we are abusing or neglecting our children by using TT. That isn't even a thinly veiled insult, but rather a condescending slap in the face, as well as dead wrong. I am going to step out on a limb here and assume that many of our historically great scientists did very well with conventional math and advanced mankind just fine before Singapore or "new math" even existed. In many ways this reminds me of the phonics, whole language, debate, where the pendulum swung back and forth when in reality a child is probably best served by a combination of both, and the real issue is what works for an individual child.

 

Exactly.

 

It's one thing making statements like, "It didn't move quickly enough for me" or "I didn't like the presentation of some math concepts", or even, "It wasn't vigorous enough for my math loving child", but what ruffles the feathers of TT users are comments suggesting it is woefully inferior and doing a disservice to our children (i.e., "feeding them only french fries"). We all critique curriculum on this board, but I know of no other program that gets this kind of abuse, so that is why you get a backlash.

 

Then again, I see a lot of educational snobbery on this board;)

 

Lisa

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We use TT here. I really like it. My 8th grade son is using pre algebra this year and just tested into honors algebra at our local high school.

 

I agree that the best math program is what gets done, and what your child understands.

 

Good luck with you decision.

 

Gayle

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And I could come up with an equally long list of threads with people saying very negative things about TT. :rolleyes:

 

My kids would suddenly become a lot more positive about vegetables if I allowed them to only eat French Fries, but that wouldn't be good for their health. Frankly, I see the whole "my kid hated math until we tried TT!" meme as the same kind of situation...

 

Comparing TT to eating french fries, really? :blink:

 

French Fries may technically be a vegetable and they will provide enough nourishment to keep someone alive, but there are so many better vegetable options out there from which to choose, even if they aren't as well-liked by children as French Fries...

 

You wonder why people get defensively about using TT, when it is compared to allowing our children to eat only French fries for vegetables? If French fries were the only vegetable a parent served their child, most would agree that was child abuse or at least child neglect. So to logically follow the comparison we are abusing or neglecting our children by using TT. That isn't even a thinly veiled insult, but rather a condescending slap in the face, as well as dead wrong. I am going to step out on a limb here and assume that many of our historically great scientists did very well with conventional math and advanced mankind just fine before Singapore or "new math" even existed. In many ways this reminds me of the phonics, whole language, debate, where the pendulum swung back and forth when in reality a child is probably best served by a combination of both, and the real issue is what works for an individual child.

 

Exactly.

 

It's one thing making statements like, "It didn't move quickly enough for me" or "I didn't like the presentation of some math concepts", or even, "It wasn't vigorous enough for my math loving child", but what ruffles the feathers of TT users are comments suggesting it is woefully inferior and doing a disservice to our children (i.e., "feeding them only french fries"). We all critique curriculum on this board, but I know of no other program that gets this kind of abuse, so that is why you get a backlash.

 

Then again, I see a lot of educational snobbery on this board;)

 

Lisa

 

Wow. Yeah. That was most DEFINITELY condescending educational snobbery if I've EVER seen it. And the most ridiculous comparison I've ever seen in my life.

 

OP, look at those links someone else provided. It'll become quite clear quite quickly that it's way more than a bunch of us saying our kids like math better since using TT. (Although that IS quite important to those of us who had kids who used to hang their heads and cry and talk about how they were no good at math. If some people on this board are lucky enough to not have had kids like that, good for them. They should spend their time being grateful for that instead of trying to knock others and making them feel bad with unfounded nastiness and holier than thou attitudes). You'll also see how much their standardized test scores improved and so on. And then, make your own choice. If it works for you, great!! It certainly does for me and many others here.

 

I have a child who likes math (she didn't used to), has confidence in math (she didn't used to), thinks she's good at math (she didn't used to), can do math independently (I used to have to hold her hand through all of it, so this frees me up for other things and is good for me because explaining math isn't MY strongest suit), and who scored in the 82nd percentile (as well as or better than 82 percent of other kids who took that test nationwide...kids who used all sorts of different math curricula, not just kids who used TT mind you) after one year of using TT at grade level with no supplementing, which was up from the 59th percentile the year before. Which means it's helped her understand math. If that's comparable to eating french fries, then pass the ketchup.

Edited by NanceXToo
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We are another family who switched to TT for my oldest. It has changed our whole homeschooling experience. My oldest son now GETS math, when before he didn't. I believe that he's now eating broccoli, which is good for him. We are very happy, and he doesn't seem as paralyzed about math.

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I didn't make it past 3rd grade math myself. Really.

 

My eldest is in 3rd now ... we've been "enjoying" Singapore (truthfully, she loathes math, but I've enjoyed math for the first time ever! ha!). So now that we're encountering long division, I'm maxed out as far as ability and patience and time. I've got three youngers & I just really don't want to spend a lot of time on math. I know math is important buuuuut ...

 

I'm torn because in my head Singapore (and other such programs - mastery??) is superior, while doing something like TT feels like I'm bailing out. I definitely put far too high standards on myself as a teacher/mom (yikes! don't we all?!) ... I just want to do what's BEST & I'm realizing that the greater good is that we do math at all these days. (yikes again!)

 

I'd love any wisdom/encouragement/advice from you all. I mostly just lurk here when I have a free moment, but I'm grateful for the community here!!

 

Thanks in advance,

sarah

 

Just going on what you said in this post--I think you should stick with Singapore. It's a good program. I assume you are using the HIG? You can always take a break from long division and come back to it. Or ask questions on this board about it, there are many helpful people here! Math is important--it sounds like maybe you were short-changed in math as a student, don't short-change your daughter now.

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I used to be one of the snobs, but decided to try TT this year with my dd. I am really glad that we did, I love the program and think my dd is learning well. :001_smile: She is retaining the information and learning a lot of different things that we had not covered in our other program. Not only that, but she is doing a lot of math in her head and manipulating numbers(much like they teach in Singapore) naturally. I am very pleased with Teaching Textbooks and will continue to use it.

Blessings,

Pat

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I'm probably one of the few households that is using both materials from AoPS and TT. I agree with so many of the above posters.... do what works for you and your child.

 

My oldest is using the AoPS series. My second child struggles with math - daily tears and very little progress until I tried TT. Do I seem the extreme differences between the curriculum? Yes, you bet I do. BUT kids are different. They just are. Some of us will never be anything more than proficient at math. Do I wish that my second could handle something more rigorous. Yep. But what I want more is for him to feel confident enough in math that he isn't paralyzed - he HAS to be proficient yk? And TT will give him that, he excels a bit even since it boosts his confidence.

 

My 3rd child will be starting the new Beast Academy. My 4th kiddo will likely be a TT kid. It just is what it is.

 

I'm a math/science person. My husband, is um.... not. Total words man and history buff - fitting since he is a lawyer. Our kids are extremes of us ;) Some of them flourish with a more conceptual math that asks them to dig deeper. Others are deer in headlights....

 

Do what works. :grouphug:

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I'm inclined to think taking a break from what you're using could work. I decided to break from Singapore when we used it for first grade. Though, we went to Abeka for second, and this year I used TT3 for my DD, who is in third grade. Best decision I made. She hated Singapore, and we got so frustrated. After Abeka, I felt like she really wasn't getting it all- nothing was clicking, etc. It worked for us to take a break and use TT. Also, we are using SM challenge problems this year alongside and SHE GETS IT now and I see how things have clicked and she's grown more confident and keeps on learning! I hope you can make a confident decision- whatever you do!!!!!!!!!

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I think being concerned about math being led by a computer is a reasonable concern.

 

However, for a lot of people math is scary and if the computer helps so be it.

 

One thing worth noting is that we are surrounded by math from an early age. You can do TT and still interact with your child on the topic of math by looking for ways to incorporate living math into your day- double a recipe with your child. Calculate the sale price of her new shirt, add up the cost of three objects you didnt need but bought anyway when you went to target.;) These are real life examples of how to work math into your day that we all can do with our kids to build math fluency.

 

Yes, the attitude here towards TT is ridiculous and it is absolutely snobbery at its worst. Its especially hilarious coming from those who never used te program.

 

But its so typical of homeschoolers to think they have to run down one thing in order to prop up what they like. Just like the Sing versus public school debate.;)

 

Yes. But the OP said she didn't make it past 3rd grade math, so unless she is really learning along with her child, I don't see how she could really do any of these things.

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My oldest went though 3 whole years of Teaching Textbooks at the high school level (He didn't even do precalc opting for Trig at college instead) and is now pulling a high B in Calc 3. TT won't wreck your kid. (I have not used the elementary programs but many have had their kids go easily from TT7 on into their prealgebra and beyond.)

 

OP, if you truly meant that first sentence, and are enjoying math using Singapore's approach, switching does not have to mean the end of that. Do investigate using some of Math Mammoth's topical books for yourself. Take this opportunity to get and stay ahead of your kids by working on the concepts you might be shaky on. You will then be equipped to show another approach to your child as she goes through the concepts herself.

 

If you do switch to TT, try to get and stay a chapter ahead in this also. She will benefit from your familiarity with the concepts even if the program does explain it to her well. I find the pace of the cd-rom lectures to be irritatingly slow at times, so if a kid needs help, it's nice to be able to quickly get them on the right track.

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Do you really think the OP can not manage to cook a simple recipe and make a trip to the store? My guess is she was being hyperbolic bc she has some math phobia.

 

I don't know. I have seen many posts about cashiers who can't make change, etc.

And, I am very good at math but when I started homeschooling, I was not so good at EXPLAINING the concepts. How can you explain in different ways what you don't really understand? How can you know if your child really understands a concept if you don't understand it yourself?

 

(And I am not totally anti-TT, I just don't think in this post I would recommend it or any other video/computer based program)

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We all critique curriculum on this board, but I know of no other program that gets this kind of abuse, so that is why you get a backlash.

 

FWIW, TT is the ONLY math curriculum I've seen criticized on this forum where there are so many poor reviews AND the negatives aren't just a "fit" issue but a "my kid did TT through pre-calculus and then wound up failing the college placement exam and had to do remedial arithmetic". People may have negative things to say about Saxon or Singapore or MM or what have you, but they aren't questioning the soundness of the program the way many of the negative TT reviews do.

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My $.02:

 

I used Singapore with my oldest, who is now 17. I hated it. She hated it. This was before they had the homeschool guides to accompany them, but I found the program difficult to teach, and dd felt it moved too fast and didn't have enough practice. Singapore was never meant to be a homeschool program. It was meant to be taught by trained teachers. I love math and did well in it all the way through trig. I hated Singapore.

 

After trying two other curricula with ds 3rd grade, I finally switched him to TT. He's happier. I'm happier. He likes math now, and he feels good at it.

 

I know that Singapore is supposed to be the gold standard. I know that TT gets knocked a lot around here. In the end, all that mattered to me was that math not being a crying battle every day.

 

Ds has used Singapore for about 4 weeks now, and I have looked through all the lessons in the book. It's not as hard as Singapore (or MM, which is what dd 4th uses and what I switched ds from), true ... but I have come to feel that hard, intellectual, challenging, conceptual math just really isn't a necessity. Learning math well is. And that can be achieved with a program that isn't so hard for a kid that it drives him (or mom) to tears.

 

Tara

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How can you explain in different ways what you don't really understand? How can you know if your child really understands a concept if you don't understand it yourself?

 

(And I am not totally anti-TT, I just don't think in this post I would recommend it or any other video/computer based program)

 

:iagree:

 

I wouldn't compare TT to junk food; I am sure it has it's positives. I know hs parents that love it. But the defensive posts came before the french fries comment.

 

There is nothing wrong with criticizing a program and saying I would not use it and here's why. I do not see threads asking only for positive responses about any program, and there are plenty of negative opinions of every program out there. I think the people asking the questions can judge the responses for themselves without all the extra commentary about why posters that don't like something are wrong.

 

I also don't think Singapore is the only good math program. I do think that computer teaching for basic subjects in early elementary is a mistake in many cases.

Edited by Penelope
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Frankly, I see the whole "my kid hated math until we tried TT!" meme as the same kind of situation...

 

I fought this attitude within myself for a long time. I had always suspected that the way TT teaches things would connect with my ds, but geez, it was such an awful program, don'tcha know? So instead of fitting math to my son, I tried to fit my son to math. I ended up with a kid who cried and felt math-stupid and a mom who was exasperated.

 

So I finally switched. The instruction in TT suits my son, he is enjoying math and, most important of all, he now feels good at math. That is nothing to roll your eyes at or poo-poo, because a child who feels math-stupid won't learn from even the best (read: most challenging, WTM-math-guru-approved) curriculum.

 

My son, who just turned 9, told me, "I just felt like Math Mammoth was for someone with a different brain."

 

I think that TT works well for kids who don't think as abstractly as other kids might, kids who don't have that inherent sense of mathiness. To denigrate the program because it works well for kids who struggled with more conceptual, abstract programs is kinda snotty, imo. (And I did it, too, until I really understood that my ds and my dd just think differently, and different things speak to them.)

 

Why can't there be a place for an "easier," if you will, math for kids don't thrive with "harder" programs? I want my kids to have a solid math foundation, too, but that doesn't mean that a kid who isn't inherently mathy has to take calculus in 10th grade to be considered successful.

 

Tara

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OP: I suck at math too and happily use TT for my dd and plan to all the way to pre-calc and we started with TT 5. I will suggest though that YOU do TT as well yourself to try learning math, I am doing TT along with my dd since you can have up to 3 students per computer with the program.

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I think that TT works well for kids who don't think as abstractly as other kids might, kids who don't have that inherent sense of mathiness. To denigrate the program because it works well for kids who struggled with more conceptual, abstract programs is kinda snotty, imo. (And I did it, too, until I really understood that my ds and my dd just think differently, and different things speak to them.)

 

Why can't there be a place for an "easier," if you will, math for kids don't thrive with "harder" programs? I want my kids to have a solid math foundation, too, but that doesn't mean that a kid who isn't inherently mathy has to take calculus in 10th grade to be considered successful.

 

Tara

 

I get that not all kids will do well with a conceptual program like Singapore or MM. But there are lots of solid traditional programs out there- Saxon, Horizons, CLE, etc. Math-u-See is not traditional, but it is less challenging yet still a solid program. I don't hear lots of people with horror stories about how poorly prepared for higher level math their children were after completing those programs like I do with TT.

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I use TT for Algebra 2 and my little sister uses it for 4th. I used to be good at math but then fell behind with a bad school and lost all confidence in the subject. Since using TT I have gained it back and am now doing much better. My sister was having trouble with math to the point were we had no idea what to use. Then we switched to TT in 6 months she is almost done with 4th grade and is going to get halfway through 5th before the end of the summer. Not only is she now good at math she can explain it. The other day she divided 1458/25 and was able to do the whole thing in her head correctly. It was not that she was not good at math she was just a visual audio child having dry boring curriculums crammed down her throat. She can write 5 patagraphs she just needs to see a plan. When we tweaked her schedule it was amazing. I reccomend going with TT and then just doing two years each school year.

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Why can't there be a place for an "easier," if you will, math for kids don't thrive with "harder" programs?

 

I agree, of course there is a place for "easier" math programs, as well as programs that help a student like math and help a student be able to perform calculations. There is no one-size-fits-all curriculum.

 

However, I think the issue is not about fit, but goes to making an informed choice - if, as some threads indicate, there is a significant lack of conceptual teaching with TT, it would be important for a parent to be aware of this. In many cases, this might be compensated for through the parent's own teaching, through the use of additional math resources, or through the student's own natural math talents and ability to see concepts. In other cases, if one chooses to forego that aspect of math education for whatever reasons, it should be a deliberate, informed choice. I do think it's helpful to point out potential instructional deficiencies in curricula so that parents know what they are buying and what they are not buying. Posters who have been around here a long time are likely to be aware of the criticisms and have made an informed choice, but newer posters may not be aware.

Edited by wapiti
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FWIW, TT is the ONLY math curriculum I've seen criticized on this forum where there are so many poor reviews AND the negatives aren't just a "fit" issue but a "my kid did TT through pre-calculus and then wound up failing the college placement exam and had to do remedial arithmetic". People may have negative things to say about Saxon or Singapore or MM or what have you, but they aren't questioning the soundness of the program the way many of the negative TT reviews do.

 

Well then you just haven't been around long enough.

 

I can remember Saxon being lambasted by some of the college crowd; students who used it exclusively couldn't solve problems when worded differently, it was claimed. People countered with their positive experiences.

 

Back on the old forum, SWB posted reviews of various programs. At that point in time, she stated she had never received as many negative communiqués as when she reviewed Singapore with reservations and qualifications. People defended what worked for them.

 

It is the most natural thing in the world when people counter-point a negative story with their own positive story. This is nothing singular or unique to TT-users.

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Well then you just haven't been around long enough.

 

I can remember Saxon being lambasted by some of the college crowd; students who used it exclusively couldn't solve problems when worded differently, it was claimed. People countered with their positive experiences.

 

Back on the old forum, SWB posted reviews of various programs. At that point in time, she stated she had never received as many negative communiqués as when she reviewed Singapore with reservations and qualifications. People defended what worked for them.

 

It is the most natural thing in the world when people counter-point a negative story with their own positive story. This is nothing singular or unique to TT-users.

 

And the lesson we should learn from this is that every parent should use the curriculum that works for THEIR CHILD. Not every program is going to work for every person, because everybody has a different style of learning. No matter what curriculum somebody loves, somebody else is going to hate it. No matter what curriculum somebody hates, somebody else is going to love it. That's why we need to each evaluate what we think will work best for our children and then just go for it. In the case of MY child, yep, that's TT, and so far, zero regrets. I guess people can sit here and say that my child will probably be "ruined" because of it by the time she gets to be college-aged. Fortunately we have people like Darla here to shrug and go "didn't happen to my kid" who went through TT in high school and made it to college and is still doing just fine in college level math. This is why I say ignore the TT stereotyping and just do what you think is best for YOUR child. If you think that's TT, go for TT. If you don't think that's TT, go for whatever you think it might be. There are lots of options out there. Research them and go for whatever seems to suit YOUR child's learning style best.

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And I could come up with an equally long list of threads with people saying very negative things about TT. :rolleyes:

 

My kids would suddenly become a lot more positive about vegetables if I allowed them to only eat French Fries, but that wouldn't be good for their health. Frankly, I see the whole "my kid hated math until we tried TT!" meme as the same kind of situation...

 

:lol:

CW, you slay me. :)

 

TT is a Godsend for so many. We love it for what it offers my visual learners. SM & MM are wonderful in their own way. I use -- and love -- them all. I can have my cake & eat it, too.

 

My kids would mutiny if we did SM and/or MM day after day after day.

 

Just a thought from someone who has used TT3-TTAlg 1 successfully...:auto:

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Brandi I love your presence here :).

 

I use TT for Algebra 2 and my little sister uses it for 4th. I used to be good at math but then fell behind with a bad school and lost all confidence in the subject. Since using TT I have gained it back and am now doing much better. My sister was having trouble with math to the point were we had no idea what to use. Then we switched to TT in 6 months she is almost done with 4th grade and is going to get halfway through 5th before the end of the summer. Not only is she now good at math she can explain it. The other day she divided 1458/25 and was able to do the whole thing in her head correctly. It was not that she was not good at math she was just a visual audio child having dry boring curriculums crammed down her throat. She can write 5 patagraphs she just needs to see a plan. When we tweaked her schedule it was amazing. I reccomend going with TT and then just doing two years each school year.
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Regarding TT we have begun it for ds as a review and additional instruction. I like how they do instruction and so far he is doing great with TT5 while nearing the end of MM3. I'm getting beast academy and we'llsee if we can mix some of that in too. I'm starting to see the advantage of supplementing to add multiple teaching methods and extra practice.

 

I originally wanted him to speed ahead as he is Mathy, but now I want to deepen his understanding as we go at grade level.

 

Do what works for your kid. If they don't get enough practice but the teaching style fits, you can always supplement with more practice. Each kid needs carrying amount of repetition to cement the concepts and facts. I expect that is why TT has mixed reviews. It isn't heavy on practice and some kids need more while others do not.

 

I did not learn math in the conceptual, Asian style and did fine in math. I do think Asian math is a grea benefit and plan to continue it as long as it works for my kids.

Edited by warneral
My iPad auto spell is horrendous
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I would love to try TT for my ds. He is the only one I teach so my reasons are because he would love to do something computer based, he loved the samples plus sometimes he needs a rest from me!

 

We are currently using SM which is fine but I just can't see the difference between TT and SM. So what am I missing?

We are just finishing up SM4 and I plan to spend the rest of the school yr doing word problems, math whizz and SM worksheets but I could also start TT6 which is where ds placed.

 

Elementary math isn't that difficult so I'm not sure what TT is missing? Is it the review? Is it the complex word problems? Is it the puzzles?

 

Those are easy to add and if those are the only problems then I can see the attraction of TT-for me at least!

Those of you who compare it to french fries are you able to be a little less cryptic and give me concrete examples?

Stephanie

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