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Math with my girls: me banging head on table and sobbing


Mandylubug
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I am to the end of my patience/wits ability to cope. They just are not getting addition of basic facts. They have been in MM1a since August and we have made seriously NO progress. :confused:

 

Today, on page 38 I believe while learning about sums of 7, there was an addition problem, simple of 3+3. My replies given were 10 and 1.. they GUESS; they don't think it through. Even when I have them "draw bubbles" to complete a math problem, they will draw those six bubbles total and then guess. I have to remind them to count them through slowly to get the right answer. We have been plugging away at this rate for MONTHS and I feel like we need to be moving at this rate.

 

Suggestions? I am thinking its time to hang up this curriculum and move to something else. My older boys were in PS when they learned this level of math so its truly my first time learning to teach math from the beginning. I do know both of my boys are visual/kinesthetic learners and do GREAT beyond belief with TT3 but that isn't an option right now.. Perhaps a more hands on approach for the girls? I have considered MUS but I feel like they would just get confused at this rate in the game....

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Seriously, at 6, I would just hang the math in a bag. (bag it ;))

I would just get out legos, and manipulatives.... and just have them play with sequencing and such. Patterns, "grouping" and such. Show groups of 5.... skip counting songs... etc.

Then, next year, start fresh. That'd be my thoughts :) I would also maybe bake things... and 1 1/2 them. or 1/2 them... etc.

:)

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Honestly they are young enough *not* to get confused.

 

I am a MUS groupie so take it for what it's worth :) I love love love MUS. It hasn't been a struggle at all with ds9. He is in Gamma right now.

 

If you do MUS start in Alpha.

 

That being said, go back to the basics. Get things to count. Like choclate chips or marshmallows or something they like and can keep after. Start with basic counting. Ask for X amount. The have to count to get the correct amount, tell them if they don't count they don't get to keep it!

 

Then go on to something like, I need 3 yellow M&Ms and 3 blue M&Ms. Then ask good... you have three of each, now how many is that total? Remind them of the rule (count or you don't get). Then work up to higher stuff. See if that helps.

 

Don't use the curriculum for awhile, just use manipulative only until they get it. Then go back and see if it works. If it doesn't then look into something else.

 

I do love MUS though! :)

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My thought would be at this age, they need a physical manipulative to be able to "see" the addition. Even bubbles on paper might still be a bit too abstract. Counting chips, a bag of dried beans, blocks, anything they can touch might help.

 

Also, maybe some one-to-one correspondence games?

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Timberdoodle offers some different options and the reviews they give are realistic and helpful. Check those out and see if anything grabs you. We use RightStart and my K'er uses his abacus regularly. He often does the first few problems with it and then finished up without it. The beginning of RightStart A teaches the child how to use it.

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Mandy,

 

Since you are already considering MUS, I will tell you that was what did the trick for us. My now 15yod couldn't learn the addition facts. Just couldn't. I had spent a year with her working on it. We got the MUS Alpha and she played with the blocks (starter and completer set) for a time before we started the workbook. I had read the first few chapters and so knew how to "play" with them to get some math facts clicking. There were a few things we did with the blocks that really made connections in her head. I could see it happening, it was very exciting for me!

 

We never tried to move quickly through the workbook. We did the video and A page on Monday, B & C on Tues., D & E on Wed., Thurs. off, Test on Friday. We still keep up a similar schedule here in 9th grade! Very routine, no drama. :) Math has been a non-issue for us ever since.

 

So, I can't say this will work for you. Just that it did work for us.

 

Blessings,

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I experienced the same thing with my son last year. About 3/4 of the year through I realized he just wasn't mentally grasping it. It was pulling teeth! And frustrating both of us to tears. So, I just shelved everything and played math games that reinforced the 10 bonds. I started 1st grade math again this year using Singapore. Plus, I started LOF. He loves LOF and that really helped make math fun. Everyday, before math lessons, I gave him drill sheets with basic addition (I used MM). He was progressing well. In fact, in the last few weeks, I'm realizing he is speeding beyond and needs more challenge. Yesterday, he became curious about fractions. On a number line, he went from 1 to halfway to 0. I explained we wrote that as 1/2. Then he went halfway again - 1/4, and halfway yet again - 1/8. He saw a pattern. He took out a huge roll of paper and kept moving halfway and calculated up to 1/65,536 without any help! The other day I gave him 10 chocolate chips to use a manipulative for working and he tells me, you know 2 groups of 2 plus 3 groups of 2 equals 10. Can you write that down. Sure, he says, 2X2 + 3X2 = 10.

 

In other words don't drive yourself crazy. Stop and do some fun math things. Then start again later. You are not going to lose ground and get behind. You are just working at their level and when they are ready, you'll know. And you can move forward.

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Another vote for actual manipulatives. I usually start with ones they can't use (fingers), or favorite toys (Pet shops, ponies, LEGO, cars...). It can be slow going, but it will happen.

 

Other things we do are just plain counting using a 100's chart...pointing to the numbers as we chant. Starting with 1-10, then 1-20. Then backwards from 10-1, skip counting by 2's to 10, 5's to 25, 10's to 50. We increase the numbers as they become comfortable with them.

 

And we use numbers all. day. long. Please get out two apples for lunch...so-and-so, please get out 4 forks for breakfast.

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I totally understand how you feel! Your kids are young enough that it's ok to just slow down and take a break for a while. That being said, if the confusion continues, MUS worked for us. My daughter was in third grade and nothing was sticking. Everything was a guess and every answer was wrong. No amount of drill or manipulatives helped. I almost gave up homeschooling! We started her in Alpha and it was like the light went on. We went from crying to literally clapping. It didn't take long for her to catch up to grade level and now she says that "math is easy" and "im good at math." I suggested changing math curriculums once and she started to tear up! MUS has worked for her (my not math kid) and for her sister (totally math kid.) Overall, no matter what program you use, just take a deep breath (and maybe a break for your sanity) and make it fun. Every kid goes at a different speed. :) Oh, my other daughter loves computers and the game MathRider really helped her.

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I love the idea with the m&m's and marshmallows. Something they can hold with a sweet reward if they get it right sounds like a good motivator! :)

You could also try their favorite board game and use two dice to move around the board. Even Candy Land or Chutes and Ladders could be played with dice instead of the color cards so that they could practice counting the dots on the dice to find out how many spaces they get to move. And...if they don't add them correctly they miss their turn. It would be a fun way of teaching them to add without it being with paper and pencil. Once they start to get the hang of it then transition back into the workbooks.

 

One idea both of my boys enjoyed when they got to their addition and subtraction facts through 20 was to walk on a number line. We took a roll of paper and traced a plate on it repeatedly to create circles 0 through 20. Then they could walk on the spaces as he added or subtracted. It made it more fun for them. For ex: if the problem was 3 + 3 = They would start on the 3 circle and take 3 steps...the number they landed on was their answer. It was most helpful when they got to the larger subtraction problems to start on the number and take a certain number of steps backward.

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Thank you everyone for the replies. They do play a ton with manipulatives from homemade stuff such as dried beans/pet shop toys, dice, etc. I just can't seem to connect the number sentence of 3+3 to the hands on manipulative experience of adding 3 +3. Perhaps, drawing on bubbles is still too abstract for them. They have just been introduced to a number line and while they got it at first by me saying "pretend your pencil is a cricket, the first number 3 in our problem tells us to hop three times, hop three times." plus the second number tells us to hop another three times" "where did your cricket land?" they can tell me the answer correctly but the correlation that me walking them through that exercise to that equalling 3+3 is not there.

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McGruffy Math is an excellent math course for this age level. It is gentle, but comprehensive. I used it with my youngest for K -2, switched to MM3 with no problems. They have plenty of manipulatives and games to reinforce the concepts. It's worth taking a look.

 

thanks, I will check it out! McGruffy or McRuffy?

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how about number line??

 

they had their first lesson on using a numberline yesterday. While I like them learning multiple ways of solving problems, I detest the way the public school systems used number lines as a crutch here in GA and I know my boys took to that crutch very well and took FOREVER to break the habit. I am seeking more of a hands on manipulative and mental math lesson approach! Thank you for the suggestion, all suggestions are welcome :)

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Have you tried turning the problems into simple story problems..."if you have 3 apples and your sister has 3 apples, how many apples all together"?

 

My 6 year old son was doing the same thing earlier this year. 2 + 2...no idea. However, as I read more difficult story problems out loud to his older sisters- he could shout out the answers immediately. So, I started making simple word problems out of his math equations. And he could do it! We use small blocks, cars, and fingers here, too. But even when he is doing that, he will say outloud "If I have 3 apples and my sister eats 1 how many do I have left?". He does this on his own...somehow it seems to help him.

 

Meanwhile, we are memorizing the facts using flash cards, and he does have some facts memorized now. He takes a timed test each morning, and is getting 12-15 right in a minute. So either he is turning them into word problems very quickly, or some of the memorizing is working. And I'm ok with the memorizing, because I know he understands the concept since he can do the word problems. I still get the wild answers while he is doing his math lesson...1+4= 10? But when I get one, I just make up a story problem, he answers, and we go on. Just me reading the problems out loud doesn't help much, it is the addition of the story that does it for him. We've begun adding in more challenging word problems from various sources, and he can do so much more with these than he can do with simple equations.

 

Just one more thing you can try. Hope you find something that works for your girls, whether it be waiting, switcing curriculums, or something else.

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C-rods. Seriously.

 

Take 2 of the green 3s, put them together and have the girls find the rod that it makes. They will never again say 10 or 1. They might say 7 for awhile as they try it, but they will have a much closer response until they get it right and it becomes automatic. The rods really are an incredible visual representation.

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One more idea...

if they are doing okay adding with the help of hands on items...but having trouble understanding how those items turn into numbers on the page...maybe you could get them to create their own number sentences.

 

If you were to take a piece of paper and draw a square, then an addition sign, then another square, then an equal symbol, then another square...you could use it to help them make their own number sentences.

 

Put some chocolate chips, marshmallows, toy cars...whatever into the first two squares...then have them count the item(s) in each square and write the number into the corresponding square as they move the item(s) to the square after the equal sign. Then after they've written in the first two squares...they can count the combined total in the equal square and replace the items with the answer to the number sentence.

 

If it were me...I'd take two pieces of construction paper and "laminate" them with contact paper. You could draw the parts of the number sentence that will not change (squares and symbols) with a permanent marker. Then they could use crayons, or dry erase markers to write in their numbers as they move the items around on the page. This way you don't have to keep creating new pages. :)

 

Maybe you could use this while you wait for another curriculum to come. :)

 

I hope it clicks soon! :001_smile:

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One more idea...

if they are doing okay adding with the help of hands on items...but having trouble understanding how those items turn into numbers on the page...maybe you could get them to create their own number sentences.

 

If you were to take a piece of paper and draw a square, then an addition sign, then another square, then an equal symbol, then another square...you could use it to help them make their own number sentences.

 

Put some chocolate chips, marshmallows, toy cars...whatever into the first two squares...then have them count the item(s) in each square and write the number into the corresponding square as they move the item(s) to the square after the equal sign. Then after they've written in the first two squares...they can count the combined total in the equal square and replace the items with the answer to the number sentence.

 

If it were me...I'd take two pieces of construction paper and "laminate" them with contact paper. You could draw the parts of the number sentence that will not change (squares and symbols) with a permanent marker. Then they could use crayons, or dry erase markers to write in their numbers as they move the items around on the page. This way you don't have to keep creating new pages. :)

 

Maybe you could use this while you wait for another curriculum to come. :)

 

I hope it clicks soon! :001_smile:

 

thank you! They do very well with this method you have suggested. They have two blank boxes and they have dice; they roll the dice and draw the dots in the boxes and then write the number problem below the boxes.. perhaps I just need to give them time before I expect them to "reverse" the manipulative methods.

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C-rods. Seriously.

 

Take 2 of the green 3s, put them together and have the girls find the rod that it makes. They will never again say 10 or 1. They might say 7 for awhile as they try it, but they will have a much closer response until they get it right and it becomes automatic. The rods really are an incredible visual representation.

 

we have base ten blocks? are these similar?

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I would shelve it for a little while. Do they have any trouble with any other comprehension? What about separating them when you do math? One on one? Are they distracting each other?

 

computer games might help a bit, pbskids.org has a lot of games. They would be doing math and not even know it.

 

 

I agree the rods are good. We used unifix blocks and did the same thing with them. It's a help.

 

I do think some children have a longer time at getting math concepts.

 

 

I would ditch the curriculum rightt now and just use math in everyday life with them. There are lots of children's books that use math in the story, you could try that. And count count count everything.

 

another thing - start with the total first. Put the six blocks together and then separate them into groups of three, showing that two threes make six. We did a lot of that with kindy math.

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One thing I have noticed with how my girls function with MM has me thinking. The method of MM is they "introduce" a new topic by having them work through the problems immediately without any scripted lesson teaching them first.

 

Perhaps, a method that teaches first the new concept and then instructs to work it out would work?

 

currently, they jump full force into, say sums of number 7... they count how many marbles are on the left of the line and write it down, the count how many marbles are on the right of the line and write it down. They count and add them together and write the sum as 7. They have yet to realize that the "groups of marbles" they are adding up each time each add up to seven. They aren't learning it as a fact family. SO when they go to the problems with no photos to compare and I instruct them to draw out "bubbles" or etc.. they still aren't seeing the correlation of the lesson as all being about sums of 7.... perhaps I am just assuming there would be a huge "ah ha" with each lesson similar to phonics is going with them.. it just isn't there. I feel like we progress through the pages with nothing mastered but number writing and counting.

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I would shelve it for a little while. Do they have any trouble with any other comprehension? What about separating them when you do math? One on one? Are they distracting each other?

 

computer games might help a bit, pbskids.org has a lot of games. They would be doing math and not even know it.

 

 

I agree the rods are good. We used unifix blocks and did the same thing with them. It's a help.

 

I do think some children have a longer time at getting math concepts.

 

 

I would ditch the curriculum rightt now and just use math in everyday life with them. There are lots of children's books that use math in the story, you could try that. And count count count everything.

 

another thing - start with the total first. Put the six blocks together and then separate them into groups of three, showing that two threes make six. We did a lot of that with kindy math.

 

I am considering separating them from each other because I get impatient going back and forth between both of them. I tried them separated yesterday and the last child didn't get the best of me emotionally. I even got up earlier and tackled math first thing full swing instead of phonics thinking that would help but it was worse than yesterday, lol I think I will do math with one, then move on to another topic entirely and come back and teach math to the other one later.

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we have base ten blocks? are these similar?

 

Cuisenaire rods are different and initially are used for numbers within 10 (later they can be used for much more) and are sometimes used with the base-10 flats for double-digit numbers. IMHO, this is the best set, because you can keep them sorted for ease of use and it also comes with task cards describing how to use them. We couldn't do MM without them!

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C-rods. Seriously.

 

Take 2 of the green 3s, put them together and have the girls find the rod that it makes. They will never again say 10 or 1. They might say 7 for awhile as they try it, but they will have a much closer response until they get it right and it becomes automatic. The rods really are an incredible visual representation.

 

:iagree: Stop and let them take a break. Order c rods. Let them build with them like blocks. After AT LEAST a week of consistent rod play, have them build stairs and then measure all the different rods with just the white rod. Let that idea simmer and then stand back and be amazed!

 

C rods would be cheaper because they can be used with MM. MUS blocks are more expensive...and MUS blocks are fashioned after C rods.

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You can add manipulatives without changing curriculum. Seriously, all you need for addition is an egg carton and beans. When they get to place value, all you need is popsicle sticks and rubber bands to make 10s, 100s, and 1000s. For measuring, use a container of cheap rice and some measuring cups and spoons.

 

My youngest (who is very dyslexic) had trouble learning the language of math. For her, I turned every problem into standard English until she made the connection with math symbols. 3+3=__ became, "If you have 3 apples and I give you 3 more, how many will you have?" I probably did that for 2-3 months before she could understand what the symbols meant. If they need that sort of thing for awhile, it's not a big deal. It pays off to take all the time they need to lay a good foundation at the early levels.

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Your kids sound like my girls. I thought I would lose my mind teaching them math and they were just not getting it. I still feel that way sometimes. We used MM too and I don't think any other curriculum would have been better for my kids. They had already done 3 other curricula either with me or at other schools and they were just as bad or worse. What worked best for them was to get some cuisenaire rods and for me to sit on the floor and do the MM pages orally. I also had to separate them at first. The cuisenaire rods helped them much more than regular unit blocks and for some reason they could get it better orally than when they saw the same problem on a worksheet. I still wrote it out some, but I used scratch paper with one problem at a time. They also liked dreambox.

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I definitely agree that you need manipulatives - when you talk about teaching math there seems to be a lot of drawing pictures/bubbles and they actually need to touch real objects. The same comes when teaching bonds - that 3+4=7 and 4+3=7 is the same thing is much easier to see when you have real items - Life of Fred teaches this really well by saying: I have 7 pencils - I put 3 in the drawer and there are 4 on the table but I still have 7 pencils. If I put 4 in the drawer and have 3 on the table then I will also still have 7 pencils (and so on for all the bonds of 7) But you need to use real objects to get them to see this - pictures do not work so well.

 

Montessori also has a good method for teaching the addition sums - they write the numerals out (eg 5 + 1 = ...) and then have three containers all empty - then you get your child to count 5 blocks (or whatever you are using) into the first bowl, 1 into the second bowl and then they tip them from the bowls into the final bowl after the equals sign and count them to get the answer. That way they are learning the numeral sum as well as using manipulatives and understanding what they are doing.

 

I did also agree with the word sums - for some reason many children can see a word problem in their heads as they are imagining the real items and quantites - they see the "apples" in their minds and the answer becomes obvious. 3 does not mean much, but 3 apples/elephants/cars or whatever your child fancies is a quantity they can imagine.

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while I don't care for the sequence of K12 first grade math, I did like how things were presented in K math. First there was an online demonstration, a game, an opportunity for the child to do it online, and then went to paper.

 

they also did word problems galore.

 

 

 

here's a site that might help, haven't used it but I know others that have.

http://mathplayground.com/

 

http://coolmath-games.com/

 

http://www.primarygames.com/math.htm

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I think that you have gotten good advice so far, but wanted to add that a couple of resources for you, on teaching young kids the concepts using different explanations & methods, might be helpful. For a really broad conceptual overview, and ideas on how to teach math concepts using games and everyday activities, I have gotten a lot from this book:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Math-Power-Help-Child-Revised/dp/0132205947/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329423933&sr=8-1

 

And for "how-to" for the teacher, very systematically and specifically, I don't think there is anything like Kitchen Table Math:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Dr-Wrights-Kitchen-Table-Math/dp/0982921128/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1329423955&sr=1-1

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I am to the end of my patience/wits ability to cope. They just are not getting addition of basic facts. They have been in MM1a since August and we have made seriously NO progress. :confused:

 

Today, on page 38 I believe while learning about sums of 7, there was an addition problem, simple of 3+3. My replies given were 10 and 1.. they GUESS; they don't think it through. Even when I have them "draw bubbles" to complete a math problem, they will draw those six bubbles total and then guess. I have to remind them to count them through slowly to get the right answer. We have been plugging away at this rate for MONTHS and I feel like we need to be moving at this rate.

 

Suggestions? I am thinking its time to hang up this curriculum and move to something else. My older boys were in PS when they learned this level of math so its truly my first time learning to teach math from the beginning. I do know both of my boys are visual/kinesthetic learners and do GREAT beyond belief with TT3 but that isn't an option right now.. Perhaps a more hands on approach for the girls? I have considered MUS but I feel like they would just get confused at this rate in the game....

 

:001_smile: I have a 6yo girl too. she understands math. but she is learning it completely differently and MUCH SLOWER than her brother. Some days I feel like you do. She is way ahead of him on the reading spectrum though. Many or most girls process numbers differently than boys and I believe that the same developmental "click" that comes with reading may also come with numbers. We have been working on addition since last spring and have only just moved to subtraction. little by little she is getting faster with the facts, but boy it's a good thing she has fingers!

 

eta--i just read some of the previous posts and i agree that manipulatives are really good. we use Math U See, so it's a given...

 

try www.xtramath.org She has really been enjoying this and it is helping her a lot to just increase her speed. it drills certain facts until they are mastered, then moves on. You can monitor progress. it is free.

Edited by Hedgehogs4
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My thought would be at this age, they need a physical manipulative to be able to "see" the addition. Even bubbles on paper might still be a bit too abstract. Counting chips, a bag of dried beans, blocks, anything they can touch might help.

 

Also, maybe some one-to-one correspondence games?

And yet they could easily be totally muddled by having to manipulate stuff just so they can answer a simple addition problem.

 

Not all children need manipulatives. I did not. My dc did not. We learned that 7+3=10 and understood what that meant and could apply it IRL. Easy peasy. We would have hated having to move something around (or color in bubbles more than a couple of times) to come up with that.

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I see you've gotten lots of replies, and I am being too lazy to read them all, so maybe this has already been said. But the single best math manipulative that I ever bought was the abacus from the RightStart program. You don't have to be using their program to make good use of that abacus, but I do recommend their particular abacus because the way the beads are colored helps the child to see number patterns more clearly. It gave my daughter a really good grasp of basic addition and subtraction, and also place value (when you turn the abacus sideways, it is labeled in such a way to show the units, tens place, hundreds place, etc. and kids can learn to sort of "exchange" ten beads in one column for one bead in the next column). I thought it was kind of overpriced for an abacus, but I was wrong. Worth every penny and then some!

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Here are some ideas to play with until you decide on a curriculum.

 

Does your library have a picture book math section? Mine had a surprisingly big one.

 

Cooking math

 

Have you googled "math journaling" and "math notebooks"?

 

Maybe some calendar work.

 

Learn to tell time.

 

Learn to count money.

 

Measure: weights, volume, length

 

Estimating

 

A little probability with flipping a coin, rolling a dice, or using a spinner. Maybe try to graph the results.

 

Sorting into categories

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Another plug for Mathusee -- My DD and DS (7 yr old twins) did most of MM1 last year for 1st grade, and nothing stuck for them, either. We switched to MUS Alpha this year, and things have gone much better. They really needed the manipulatives. I am so glad we started over with Alpha instead of moving on to a 2nd grade curriculum. We also do a lot of practice using different online drills -- Quarter Mile Math and we just bought MathRider.

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Since you said you have hands-on type learners, something to practice all those addition (subtraction) facts once they are sort of introduced is a "memory" game with a regular deck of cards.

 

I based it off of

, but I didn't buy their cards - I just use a regular card deck with the cards I don't need pulled out. The way we play it, you can do ANY addition family.

 

For example, if we are practicing the "7 family," I use the Aces ("1"s), 2s, 3s, 4s, 5s, 6s, and two 7s + two Jokers. I use the Jokers as "zeros."

 

Mix them up and put them face down on your playing surface.

 

Each of you take turns picking two cards.

 

If you pick a 6, you want to look for what card would "add" to make 7. So, you are looking for a 1. If you don't get the match, it is the other person's turn. If you get a match, you get to go again.

 

This helps them remember the families and my kids like to beat me by ending up with more matches than I have.

 

We say everything out loud. Example: "I found a 3, so I am looking for a .... (pause) ... 4!"

 

I haven't done it yet, but I'm looking forward to playing the RightStart game "Go to the Dump" with my dd#3 and whichever older siblings want to come along for the ride.

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Another plug for Mathusee -- My DD and DS (7 yr old twins) did most of MM1 last year for 1st grade, and nothing stuck for them, either. We switched to MUS Alpha this year, and things have gone much better. They really needed the manipulatives. I am so glad we started over with Alpha instead of moving on to a 2nd grade curriculum. We also do a lot of practice using different online drills -- Quarter Mile Math and we just bought MathRider.

 

since you are teaching twins like I am, are you able to teach both together or are you splitting them up individually?

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