CourtneyBrooke Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 My daughter is in 6th grade, the age when our youth group begins. We love our church, I've been going there for 22 years, and the youth minister's wife is actually my close friend of 22 years. (They're in their early 30's). There are always other leaders of both genders around. So that's not my issue. My issue, however, is the children that attend. This particular leader is very involved in "outreach" to the surrounding inner-city neighborhood- a great thing! The problem is, almost all of the "youth group kids" are unsaved kids (who don't attend our church at all except for youth group night) who think/say/do things that I don't want my kids around. We're talking 6th graders who loudly and hilariously discuss s$x (I've heard them), among other things that are extremely inappropriate. So what do you do for your children in that case? Sending them there to me would not be helping them in their walk with the Lord. They certainly don't need it for socialization. (I'm currently having this discussion with a few of her friends' moms who attend there as well.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Don't send them, and notify the youth pastor why. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamajudy Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Don't send them, and notify the youth pastor why. Tara :iagree: You are the one who is ultimately responsible and accountable to God for raising up your children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. Not the church youth group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janie Grace Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Don't send them, and notify the youth pastor why. Tara :iagree: But I'd be really careful to explain it to them (your kids) without making it sound like those other kids are "bad." Someday (I would hope) your kids will be ready to interact with kids like that and you don't want them to have some subconscious prejudice towards them. I'd find other families and do fun stuff with the parents/teens. I don't like the drop-off-the-kids model anyway. I think it's healthier to do things as families. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momofkhm Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Don't send them, and notify the youth pastor why. Tara :iagree: I understand that these other kids may not hear the gospel otherwise. But to me, youth group is a place to grow in your faith with other like minded teens/preteens. Have fun may be a better way of putting it. Grow in faith is more Sunday school. Have fun with Christian kids is youth group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I'm with the others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 We left our last church over youth group so I may be the wrong person to ask, but we firmly believe that if the church is not a good fit for our kids, it is the wrong church. If our kids are getting the most worldly influences at church, there is a problem. I watched as scantily clad teen girls came in giggling and flirting and the boys were ogling them and whispering. When I got a letter home from the youth pastor explaining that many of the kids were into drugs, partying, sex, and alcohol and there was no real solution to the problem or how to handle it listed, we left. HOWEVER, I have to say that I am unimpressed with MOST youth groups. The desire/push for the youth pastor and staff to be "cool" seems to far outweigh their desire to present Jesus. Dawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emzhengjiu Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 My children wouldn't participate under the circumstances you describe. Is the youth group set up to entertain or to disciple the kids? Are there enough adults supervising and stopping questionable behavior? My girls attend a youth group to grow as Christians in an environment that reflects our beliefs. There will be ample time in life for them to reach out to their peers. Ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Beachy Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 We are in a similar situation. My oldest is in 6th grade, and our youth group starts in 7th. However, there are no other girls my dd's age in church. The closest ones are 2 years in each direction. Our youth pastor has done a lot of outreach and been successful with the high schoolers since they are able to get themselves to and from church and youth group. There are a very few jr high and 6th graders who will come sporadically in Wed night. They live in the neighborhood and can walk. They are difficult and not good influences on the other children. If she had at least 1 fairly strong friend going into youth with her, I would feel better. As it is, we have started attending a different church on Sat. nights. I will still go to our church on Sunday morning because my youngest has friends there. I also have responsibilities, and I feel a need to support our new pastor since I was on the committee that brought him here. I have spoken to the youth pastor about our concerns. He said that if all the families did that there would never be any children moving into youth and he would have to constantly start over. I agreed, but explained that I need to do what is best for my dd. As it stands now, she would be the ONLY jr. high school girl in youth. Not something I want for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmrich Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Our youth group was run the same a few years ago. It has since changed. The church has many outreach programs, but now youth group is focused on providing a fun place for the church's youth to hang out. It is nice to have "group" to belong when you are a teen. That sense of belonging is an important aspect of the teen years. I would look for a different youth group for your child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 The desire/push for the youth pastor and staff to be "cool" seems to far outweigh their desire to present Jesus. IME this is definitely true. I am not Christian, but I had a lot of Christian friends growing up, and I also lived with a female Methodist pastor for a year and a half when I was in late high school/early college. I was taken to youth groups many times by friends, and I was very involved with the youth group at the church of the pastor I lived with. (I was probably one of those bad kids people wouldn't want their kids around, anyway, as I was unsaved and into drugs, etc.) I remember thinking, many times, that the Christian kids were as badly behaved, if not worse, than all us other heathen kids, and the youth pastors did nothing about it. They youth pastors were far more interested in getting kids, any kids, as many kids as possible, to the youth groups, and setting strict rules or calling out bad behavior would have made the pastors unpopular, so they didn't do it. They tried to "meet the kids where they were," which even in my unsophisticated teenage opinion basically meant they did not call a spade a spade. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In the Rain Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Don't send them, and notify the youth pastor why. Tara :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I think there are a few things going on here. Our church is also in an inner-city area, and we consider youth outreach in the community to be one of our major mission areas. We also have teens in the congregation who are in need of an age appropriate Christian education opportunity. We have these things set up and administered largely seperatly. Our teen group is administered as part of the Sunday School program, it rund Sunday morning before church, and they also do some fun things and service things as a group at other times. The meetings are focused on education in the faith, and the teens are grouped together because their educational needs are different than the younger kids. The outreach programs are administered totally ssperatly and is intended to meet different needs. Many of the children are not Christians and they have in many cases more basic issues to deal with - like getting a good meal for the day or having an adult mentor who is able to take some time with them. And yes, sometimes those kids talk about their experiences and concerns and such together in ways that might be considered inappropriate - that comes with the territory. I might or might not let my teen kids go to the youth group you are talking about. It can be of benefit to have a mixed group in some cases - kids who wouldn't necessarily meet each other getting to know, like, and respect each other can be very positive. It would depend somewhat on what the meetings were like, how well my teens had taken in what I taught them as kids and how confident they were. But I also might suggest to the youth leader that there is a need for two separate programs for ertian purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 We left our last church over youth group so I may be the wrong person to ask, but we firmly believe that if the church is not a good fit for our kids, it is the wrong church. If our kids are getting the most worldly influences at church, there is a problem. I watched as scantily clad teen girls came in giggling and flirting and the boys were ogling them and whispering. When I got a letter home from the youth pastor explaining that many of the kids were into drugs, partying, sex, and alcohol and there was no real solution to the problem or how to handle it listed, we left. HOWEVER, I have to say that I am unimpressed with MOST youth groups. The desire/push for the youth pastor and staff to be "cool" seems to far outweigh their desire to present Jesus. Dawn :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineinthesand9 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) I am the wife of a FORMER (key word!) Baptist "youth pastor"...he was a youth pastor for 14 years. Throughout our journey in the ministry, we saw the realities of a flawed system. To get right to the point, "youth ministry" is not even a Biblical idea...you can't find scripture to support it. The only occurance in the Bible of a group of "youth" hanging-out together is in 2 Kings chapter 2, when a group of children mocked Elisha, the man of God, and ended up reaping their consequences by being attacked by bears! However, there are many instances in Scripture of children being with their parents in formal worship, not separated. True, in our years of youth ministry we saw some saved, and we saw some dedicate their lives to the Lord, many of which are still close to the Lord today, and we praise Him for it. But God can certainly save and change lives for Him without a flawed, "man-created" system such as "youth group." He doesn't need it. And truthfully, we can see now (looking back) that much harm came from it, in the form of heavy peer pressure, "family fragmenting" (as my husband likes to term it!), an ungodly atmosphere due to unsaved kids who are just there for the "entertainment" (such as is your concern). There are also many other underlying dangerous philosophies associated with "youth groups." An excellent read on this subject is THE SOCIALIZATION TRAP by Rick Boyer. And here is a video clip of a pastor speaking on this topic: http://scottbrownonline.com/voddie-baucham-on-youth-ministry/ By the way, my husband resigned from his position, and then we forged ahead to plant a family-integrated church in a different town. We focus on encouraging and ministrering to WHOLE families. It is a definite change from the previous "system" and very refreshing for all! Also by the way, I would strongly encourage you to NOT send your kiddos to youth group. I agree with the others wholeheartedly. Hope this is a help to your family. God bless. Also, by the way: Outreach can be done in many ways!! "Youth group" is not the only way to reach the unsaved teens. Edited February 13, 2012 by lineinthesand9 wanted to add some info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueridge Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 :grouphug: I have seen through the years the tendency for others to 'use' our children as the *good examples* in group settings. Although that feeds our ego as parents, it also seems to put unfair burden upon my girl's shoulders to always be the bright, shining light for others. I need to remember that they are still children. They are still growing in the Lord and maturing spiritually. They are wet cement. Even though Jesus spent time among the *worst of sinners* of the day because he came to heal the 'sick', he was God, and he was also an adult with wisdom. Kids may be brilliant, well behaved, talented, and good-natured, but they are still impressionable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineinthesand9 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 :grouphug: I have seen through the years the tendency for others to 'use' our children as the *good examples* in group settings. Although that feeds our ego as parents, it also seems to put unfair burden upon my girl's shoulders to always be the bright, shining light for others. I need to remember that they are still children. They are still growing in the Lord and maturing spiritually. They are wet cement. Even though Jesus spent time among the *worst of sinners* of the day because he came to heal the 'sick', he was God, and he was also an adult with wisdom. Kids may be brilliant, well behaved, talented, and good-natured, but they are still impressionable. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 My daughter is in 6th grade, the age when our youth group begins. We love our church, I've been going there for 22 years, and the youth minister's wife is actually my close friend of 22 years. (They're in their early 30's). There are always other leaders of both genders around. So that's not my issue. My issue, however, is the children that attend. This particular leader is very involved in "outreach" to the surrounding inner-city neighborhood- a great thing! The problem is, almost all of the "youth group kids" are unsaved kids (who don't attend our church at all except for youth group night) who think/say/do things that I don't want my kids around. We're talking 6th graders who loudly and hilariously discuss s$x (I've heard them), among other things that are extremely inappropriate. So what do you do for your children in that case? Sending them there to me would not be helping them in their walk with the Lord. They certainly don't need it for socialization. (I'm currently having this discussion with a few of her friends' moms who attend there as well.) I would absolutely consider sending my kids to that youth group as helping their walk with the Lord if I had grounded them in their faith. Here's why: Christians are to imitate Jesus. Jesus hung around with sinners though he was roundly criticized for it. Some of those designated sinners became members of the 12 disciples. Reaching out to the lost is a high priority to disciples. Jesus came to "seek and save the lost." We should seek to be instruments of that. Keeping oneself "unstained by the world" is not the same as not associating with worldly people 1 Cor 5:9-11 makes that really clear . I would regard this as an opportunity for my child to learn to use the weapons of spiritual warfare and to see himself as being an example and reaching out like Jesus did. We would need to make this really clear to him so he knew he was "on mission". We would discuss this a lot. Of course the more people in church who sent their kids there with this posture, the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
********* Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Don't send them, and notify the youth pastor why. Tara :iagree: You are the one who is ultimately responsible and accountable to God for raising up your children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. Not the church youth group. This. Outreach is a completely separate thing from meeting together as believers. My children would be attending 'meeting' with me and their father; not attending an 'outreach' meeting that consisted mostly of unsaved children/teens. ESPECIALLY if my child/teen was himself not yet saved. But even if they were, youth need to be strengthened in their walk, just as adults do; even more so, since they are still so young in the faith. Do your children get to meet with other believers on a regular basis? If not, that needs to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulChaos Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) As young as 6th grade sometimes doesn't work out well in youth groups. I've seen some places where the format is a junior high youth group and a senior high youth group. We don't have that, but our church offers another step of the Wednesday night classes for the kids in that age range if they want to do that rather than go to youth group. Most of the kids move up anyway (they are all dying to be in youth lol) but our group isn't quite like what you are describing. I think it would be a great experience for her when she's older. But for right now, maybe something different. Edited February 13, 2012 by PeacefulChaos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrissiK Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Don't send them, and notify the youth pastor why. Tara :iagree: I have a real problem with "youth groups" in general. I think a youth Bible study with some social time is fine, but the youth groups I've been involved with focus on games, "grossness" , a short "milk-toast" devotional and then a quick little small group interaction time, which was more about crowd control than discussing the devotional. And personally, I have a problem with the effectiveness of "out reaches" done on a large scale. That may have been effective 30-40 years ago, but not in today's society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susan123 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 The movie "Divided" is a free movie on the internet that speaks to this, parents teaching the children and not letting church divide the family. Youth group is for outreach and I think it has it's place and can do some good in that area. I've heard and seen too much that goes on to have mine involved. Example, trips to lakes with scantily clad girls (believers and non), talk of sex, etc... One of the benefits of homeschooling to me is avoiding this type of behavior and influence while maturing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhomemaker25 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 My daughter is in 6th grade, the age when our youth group begins. We love our church, I've been going there for 22 years, and the youth minister's wife is actually my close friend of 22 years. (They're in their early 30's). There are always other leaders of both genders around. So that's not my issue. My issue, however, is the children that attend. This particular leader is very involved in "outreach" to the surrounding inner-city neighborhood- a great thing! The problem is, almost all of the "youth group kids" are uunsaved kids (who don't attend our church at all except for youth group night) who think/say/do things that I don't want my kids around. We're talking 6th graders who loudly and hilariously discuss s$x (I've heard them), among other things that are extremely inappropriate. So what do you do for your children in that case? Sending them there to me would not be helping them in their walk with the Lord. They certainly don't need it for socialization. (I'm currently having this discussion with a few of her friends' moms who attend there as well.) We personally don't do youth group. In this case I think that 1 Corinthians 15:33 might apply. Also the book of Proverbs has some excellent advice about this. I have been accused more than once of not sending my children out to "be the light" to other children. I often tell people my kids are still in bootcamp learning how to put on the armor and fight the good fight. You know your kids and what they are ready for. Right now my youth age girls would not do well in that environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustybug Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 :iagree: But I'd be really careful to explain it to them (your kids) without making it sound like those other kids are "bad." Someday (I would hope) your kids will be ready to interact with kids like that and you don't want them to have some subconscious prejudice towards them. I'd find other families and do fun stuff with the parents/teens. I don't like the drop-off-the-kids model anyway. I think it's healthier to do things as families. :iagree: As other posters have said, it is you are the one who is ultimately responsible for your child, so you have to do what makes you the most comfortable. While I am not against youth groups, in this scenario, I would probably keep my child with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne in CA Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Our youth group was run the same a few years ago. It has since changed. The church has many outreach programs, but now youth group is focused on providing a fun place for the church's youth to hang out. It is nice to have "group" to belong when you are a teen. That sense of belonging is an important aspect of the teen years. I would look for a different youth group for your child. It is can be hard for a home schooled child to feel that they fit in. In our case having a church youth group full of unparented near delinquents was uncomfortable for my son, but he lived. My dd is also in 6th grade and I am considering sending her to a youth group that she will fit in with vs the one she is currently afraid of (for good reason). Of course, I will send part of my tithe with her if I do that and I will nicely explain why to our sr. pastor. It will be a hard conversation to have, but it will need to be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rieshy Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) Here's a funny take on youth groups: My kids thought it was hilarious. We do do youth group things but we attend a small church and the parents are always included. Since we don't have a paid youth minister most youth group stuff involves whole families. Nothing keeps teens from being too self-involved than a younger sibling climbing up their leg:tongue_smilie: Edited February 14, 2012 by rieshy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) My post isn't really addressing the OP, mainly the comments about the quality of youth groups in general. It seems like our youth groups function a bit different than some others. Youth group at ds's church isn't a social hour. There are easily 30-40 kids in his high school group and it isn't a huge church. They do formal bible studies, work on their path as a Christian and coordinate service projects at youth groups. What they are studying is serious, very well presented and while their youth group pastor is very funny, he really makes the kids think about his message. Based on the discussions I hear among the teens after group, they are listening and are really hearing the message presented. They have a full band (make up of youth group members/leaders) and the music played is Christian music. It is modern worship music but is definitely worship music. It absolutely doesn't feel like a public high school hallway. There are a few games here and there, but they are specifically chosen for a reason to coordinate with what they are working on in class. A game may be designed to help the kids get to know new members like '2 truths and a lie' (common when Jr. high kids move up into high school group) or to break up cliques by having assigned groups challenging each other and team building across the entire group. I have sat in on many youth group sessions, so I am not just being naive about what is going on. After youth group gets out, there is socializing going on as parents are picking up the kids, but it isn't just a free for all, and isn't a sexually charged situation. Yes, they are teens, but honestly there have been times when a couple got engaged, who I didn't even know were dating, because of how they handle themselves at church doesn't lead one to believe they are 'coupling off'. After group all of the leaders are around to offer council to the youth. It is very, very common to see the youth group leaders in private conversations with the youth, offering advice and a ear to their problems. I don't know if I have ever seen a time when there wasn't a line of kids sitting outside of the main pastors door at night, waiting to talk to him or one of the other leaders. There are many youth in his group that have come from rocky lives and sometimes don't have the ear of someone who can encourage them to stay on the right path. Counseling is always warmly offered to all the teens in the group (offered not forced).....even if it is just some positive words. It is nice to see how open the leaders are, how they want to help and to be a true leader to these kids. They are not just there to entertain...they take their leadership roles seriously. I have heard of other youth groups that were mainly for social reasons, and that the music being played on a cd player, wasn't even Christian (main stream pop/rap), but please don't think all groups are this way...because they aren't. There are some leaders out there doing amazing things! Edited February 14, 2012 by Tap, tap, tap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourtneyBrooke Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 I appreciate all the viewpoints given- some great advice! I think this one stuck out at me, because it's exactly how I feel: I have been accused more than once of not sending my children out to "be the light" to other children. I often tell people my kids are still in bootcamp learning how to put on the armor and fight the good fight. In fact, my friend, who is the youth minister's wife, has said those exact words to me. That is why she sends her young children to public school. That is why I *don't*- they aren't ready. Jesus didn't send his disciples right out into the wolves- though they were adults, he guided and taught them, close by his side, for 3 years. I certainly don't think all youth groups are bad or inappropriate. I had a great experience in youth group at this same church (I was also homeschooled- the only homeschooler in my youth group). But it was way more conservative than the one currently at my church. I'm wondering if it's possible to have two separate "youth groups"- one for the church kids and one as outreach- without causing cliques or exclusivity. Yes, my daughter has many close girlfriends who are wonderful and sweet... and homeschooled. It's their parents who don't want to send their children to this youth group. We're currently discussing our options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I'm not sure I understand why some object to social youth-groups on principle. While I wouldn't want that to be the only offering for kids in a church, what is the problem with that. I go to a playgroup once a month at my church which is pretty much for social time - we might talk about religion but mostly we talk about totally different things. But it is really nice to have a time and place to develop friendships with other people in a similar time of life to me who have similar values. They aren't my only friends but being in similar parts of our lives means we have a fair number of ways we can relate to each other. i don't see any difference for the informal men's group we have or the occasional teen activities we have. i even think it is pretty natural that the three year olds really like to play with other three year olds and less often play with he 65 year olds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I'm not sure I understand why some object to social youth-groups on principle. While I wouldn't want that to be the only offering for kids in a church, what is the problem with that. I go to a playgroup once a month at my church which is pretty much for social time - we might talk about religion but mostly we talk about totally different things. But it is really nice to have a time and place to develop friendships with other people in a similar time of life to me who have similar values. They aren't my only friends but being in similar parts of our lives means we have a fair number of ways we can relate to each other. i don't see any difference for the informal men's group we have or the occasional teen activities we have. i even think it is pretty natural that the three year olds really like to play with other three year olds and less often play with he 65 year olds. I don't think social groups are necessarily bad, but sometimes they are advertised as opportunity for Christian youths to spend time with others.... but the reality is poor supervision, a lack of focus, and they really are just an extension of a high school hallway. Ds17 was invited to one at a local super Church, and he was appalled at what they called a youth group. He has high standards, but his recollection of the night was loud rap music, a jug of kool-aide and cookies, a short talk by a youth leader and just a bunch of teens wandering around a huge church with no supervision. He felt it was not a Christian group at all, but just a chance for teenagers to hang out on a Wednesday night. I think he was about 15-16 at the time and he felt that the parents were being duped into thinking that the kids were participating in something good, but he thought otherwise. He went 2 or 3 times with this friend (summer time when he stayed the night at the friends home on a Wednesday night) and then stopped because he couldn't believe the things that were going on, the conversations that the teens were having and the lack of intent by the kids attending. This may have been an extreme, but unless the parents are following up on what is happening at the group, I doubt that they know the reality of the situation. He and this friend now attend the youth group at ds17's church were the focus is very different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Here's a funny take on youth groups: My kids thought it was hilarious. We do do youth group things but we attend a small church and the parents are always included. Since we don't have a paid youth minister most youth group stuff involves whole families. Nothing keeps teens from being too self-involved than a younger sibling climbing up their leg:tongue_smilie: :lol::lol::lol: Thanks. I just wasted a half hour watching that kid's videos! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 :lol::lol::lol: Thanks. I just wasted a half hour watching that kid's videos! :D Me, too! If he ever grows up and calms down he might be dangerous. There's some truth tucked into his nonsense, and he knows it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Me, too! If he ever grows up and calms down he might be dangerous. There's some truth tucked into his nonsense, and he knows it. 'The One About Mission Trips' makes me want to quit my church. Pet peeve! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 'The One About Mission Trips' makes me want to quit my church. Pet peeve! I know! :tongue_smilie: Especially the part when those rich people are doing missions with the middle class! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HLDoll Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 :iagree: You are the one who is ultimately responsible and accountable to God for raising up your children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. Not the church youth group. This. I agree whole-heartedly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelwydd Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Jesus didn't send his disciples right out into the wolves- though they were adults, he guided and taught them, close by his side, for 3 years. Yeah, but the majority of their education took place in the midst of "sinners." When he spent time with drunkards, adulterers, etc., they were most often with him. In fact, at least one of Jesus' disciples was himself, a despised tax collector. And sometimes, his disciples were the ones objecting to him keeping company with society's low-life untouchables. The woman at the well is one example. The woman who washed Jesus' feet with her hair and tears is another. He regularly took his disciples out among lepers and blind folks--all regarded at that time as "sinners" who deserved their ailment. They were unclean. There were several times when he castigated them for their separatist attitudes. As Jews, they'd been taught to avoid the company of sinners for much of their lives. You just didn't spend time with some tax collector or prostitute without raising eyebrows. Jesus' teachings and example went 100% against that. In fact, I can't really think of an example when Jesus was solely in the company of upstanding, socially respectable people when He wasn't castigating them for being wolves in sheep's clothing, or some other such charge. If you don't feel comfortable with your kids spending time each week, at church, with these other kids, then do like Tara said, and tell the pastor why. However, I don't think it's a good idea to try to use Jesus' example as justification. I'm wondering if it's possible to have two separate "youth groups"- one for the church kids and one as outreach- without causing cliques or exclusivity. No, there isn't. Having a separate outreach group, is fine, if it's truly focused on merely outreach--to all ages, and individuals. If it's just another youth group in disguise--"outreach" only to other teens who are "unsaved"--then you're just asking for problems. What happens when you have an unsaved teen asking to participate in the other group? What requirement are you going to make to open the "saved group" to the "unsaved teen?" If it's just being "saved," how do you plan to determine that? A statement of faith? A journal of his/her words and actions for a time period? Somebody's personal testimony that he/she really acts saved enough to be included? What if they have ongoing struggles with language or other issues? Does this negate their "saved" member status, because it's a bad influence on the other saved teens? Yes, my daughter has many close girlfriends who are wonderful and sweet... and homeschooled. It's their parents who don't want to send their children to this youth group. We're currently discussing our options. Then, I would say you guys should keep your kids out of the youth group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Yeah, but the majority of their education took place in the midst of "sinners." When he spent time with drunkards, adulterers, etc., they were most often with him. In fact, at least one of Jesus' disciples was himself, a despised tax collector. And sometimes, his disciples were the ones objecting to him keeping company with society's low-life untouchables. The woman at the well is one example. The woman who washed Jesus' feet with her hair and tears is another. He regularly took his disciples out among lepers and blind folks--all regarded at that time as "sinners" who deserved their ailment. They were unclean. There were several times when he castigated them for their separatist attitudes. As Jews, they'd been taught to avoid the company of sinners for much of their lives. You just didn't spend time with some tax collector or prostitute without raising eyebrows. Jesus' teachings and example went 100% against that. In fact, I can't really think of an example when Jesus was solely in the company of upstanding, socially respectable people when He wasn't castigating them for being wolves in sheep's clothing, or some other such charge. If you don't feel comfortable with your kids spending time each week, at church, with these other kids, then do like Tara said, and tell the pastor why. However, I don't think it's a good idea to try to use Jesus' example as justification. No, there isn't. Having a separate outreach group, is fine, if it's truly focused on merely outreach--to all ages, and individuals. If it's just another youth group in disguise--"outreach" only to other teens who are "unsaved"--then you're just asking for problems. What happens when you have an unsaved teen asking to participate in the other group? What requirement are you going to make to open the "saved group" to the "unsaved teen?" If it's just being "saved," how do you plan to determine that? A statement of faith? A journal of his/her words and actions for a time period? Somebody's personal testimony that he/she really acts saved enough to be included? What if they have ongoing struggles with language or other issues? Does this negate their "saved" member status, because it's a bad influence on the other saved teens? Then, I would say you guys should keep your kids out of the youth group. This works fine in our church, though we would never categorize someone as being "unsaved". Our parish youth group is for kids that actually attend church in the parish. The other youth activities are for kids who live in the neighbourhood - some activities like lunch provision especially for kids from homes that have problems of one kind or another. The two groups could certainly overlap, if a child from the neighbourhood attended our parish, and that would be fine - it has been the case in the past that they have overlapped. I think that often kids from both groups do attend the scouting program. We tend to assume anyone coming to church regularly is a Christian, or their parents are - we don't quiz them on whether that is the case or not to let them come to Sunday School. There is a pretty clear separation between the groups though - they are administered under different kinds of organization and funded quite differently too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankcassiesmom Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Youth groups should not be for outreach but for strengthening the faith of young believers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Not a 6th grader. I think that's too young for youth group to begin with. What's with the rush to push it younger and younger? My 10th grader is just at the point where I can send her into situations like this and now she will be okay (and will be useful.) It took a lot of work and avoiding things like youth groups up to this point to get her there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
********* Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Youth groups should not be for outreach but for strengthening the faith of young believers. :iagree: EXACTLY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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