Kim Jong Il is dead

[butterflymommy]

the "Dear Leader" as almost a god figure.

 

There's no almost about it-- the closest analogy that comes to mind is the deification of kings in Ancient Egypt.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I had to laugh last night. The BBC reporter was saying that Kim Jong Il (and Kim Il Sung) had "almost a personality cult". If his was "almost", what on earth would be a full personality cult?

[stripe]

They do the same thing with "near slavery" -- if someone is being held and forced to work for free or pennies a day, and is beaten when they try to escape, folks, we're there already!

[yellowperch]

One has to wonder--did Havel and Hitchens pick the third to go?

[Plucky]

I've always found the nighttime sattelite images of N. Korea as a sea of darkness in Asia a telling image.

 

This one has a large field of China, North Korea, South Korea and Japan. This one is closer and has more detail, showing the meager lighting from the capital.

 

 

What a moment of uncertainty for the people of North Korea. In a land where your picture of Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il comes with a duster that is only to be used to clean the picture of the dear leader, I can't imagine the pressure to be seen to mourn properly and sufficiently.

 

There are many victims of Kim Jong Il to mourn.

 

Wow, that is amazing. So sad.

[Plucky]

What's really revolting is the difference in height.

 

Yes, the differences in height and so many things are startlingly different.

[SailorMom]

I hope and pray that it will mean better times for the people of North Korea. I think most of the world is pretty ignorant of the real problems there.

 

:iagree:

 

Yes - and for those who do not think they should celebrate his death, perhaps celebrate is just the wrong word? There are thousands upon thousands of people hoping that his death may just make their lives livable. His passing is no tragedy, and the man didn't deserve to breathe the same air his people breathed.

[TravelingChris]

I am with others here who really hope and pray that the suffering of the people of North Korea may end and that the fear the South Koreans live under may also end. Reunification, while very difficult, is what I hope for.

[butterflymommy]

"Crossing the Line" is a fascinating docu on netflix streaming, about an American defector from the Korean War. He really had no idea what he was getting into, just got into a fight with his commanding officer one day, got drunk, and crossed the border surrendering himself to the N Koreans. He still lives there today and had 3 children over 2 marriages.

 

I don't see the "wall coming down" anytime soon for N Korea-- they are so divorced from reality, their state of mind is not something we can even fathom. My only dim hope is that more aide is allowed in by the N Korean gov't, and that it is distributed widely-- not just to hand selected individuals.

[HSMom2One]

Spent a summer teaching English in South Korea and will never, ever forget the fear and pain on the faces of my Korean friends as they told us stories of Kim Jong Il. My provincially-American mind was shocked.

 

I,too, am hopeful for a free and united Korea . . . not basing that hope on Son #3, though. But hoping (for the people's sake) for a very smooth transition.

 

I, too, have spent time in S. Korea and will never forget the passionate pleas from people I met there to pray for the poor and suffering in N. Korea and for the reunification of the two countries. There is such a longing, both north and south, for the reunification of the nation and for the church as well. Christians in N. Korea are the most persecuted in the entire world.

 

While there, my friend and I toured the DMZ and were touched forever by sights of soldiers with guns and barbed wire that few Americans can relate to whatsoever. While in the DMZ we hiked down one of the long, deep tunnels that the N. Koreans made in their indefatigable efforts to enter and take over S. Korea. Physically walking through and seeing first-hand the tunnels profoundly demonstrated to us the communist's efforts to take over the southern nation, and was living proof of their determination.

 

It should be understood that Kim Jong Il and his communist regime have poisoned the minds of many with their corrupt ideologies and this will not die with their leader. Kim Jong Il was hand picked by his father, and ended up being significantly more evil as a ruler. There is no guarantee that any of Kim Jong Il's sons will be a relief from the former iron-fisted, demon possessed ruler and his administration.

 

As Americans, we cannot imagine the type of fear and desperation the people of S. Korea live under, and the immense suffering of the N. Koreans. This is an incredibly sensitive moment for the people of both nations, and they are truly in need of our prayers.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

Edited December 20, 2011 by HSMom2One
spelling

[HSMom2One]

Holy cow. I'm sure there are many people in North Korea grieving right now- so many of them see the "Dear Leader" as almost a god figure.

 

Kim Il Sung, Kim Jong Il's father, founded an ideology called “Juche,” which centers on the worship of the country’s leaders. Please keep in mind that there is no choice in worshiping these men as gods, they either do it or face torture or death. I doubt there will be many who genuinely grieve this event except for those close to the dictator and his government that live lavishly at the complete expense of the nation, most of whom are poor peasants.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

Edited December 20, 2011 by HSMom2One

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I am with others here who really hope and pray that the suffering of the people of North Korea may end and that the fear the South Koreans live under may also end. Reunification, while very difficult, is what I hope for.

 

I'm not sure that reunification would necessarily be the best answer. At this point, I don't know if the differences in the last 60 odd years doesn't outweigh the shared language and historical culture.

 

But more liberty, freedom from tyranny? Certainly to be wished for.

[HSMom2One]

I'm not sure that reunification would necessarily be the best answer. At this point, I don't know if the differences in the last 60 odd years doesn't outweigh the shared language and historical culture.

 

But more liberty, freedom from tyranny? Certainly to be wished for.

 

Trust me, reunification of both nations under a free government is what the vast majority of the people of both nations want.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[Sebastian (a lady)]

National Geographic: Inside North Korea and North Korea: A Day in the Life are both pretty good. Keep in mind while watching A Day in the Life that this is the good side of North Korea that the officials allowed to be presented. (And don't miss some of the reviews on Netflix about the literal translations of what was said by some of the Korean officials during the extra interviews.)

[unsinkable]

So, it's not OK to feel relief upon the NATURAL death of a BRUTAL dictator? :confused:

 

Sometimes sympathies can be misplaced and sometimes death is a blessing.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Trust me, reunification of both nations under a free government is what the vast majority of the people of both nations want.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

 

I won't speak for Germans, because I didn't live through their reunification personally. But as someone with a deep interest, who watched Germany and who lived in the vicinity of the former east for a few years, I'll say that it was not without high costs on both sides.

 

It is one thing to desire an idealistic vision of something. It's something different to live with the realities of how that comes into practice.

 

If it does ever come to pass, Korea would be no less in need of prayer. Because the hardships would not be over just because a border was erased.

[HSMom2One]

If it does ever come to pass, Korea would be no less in need of prayer. Because the hardships would not be over just because a border was erased.

 

Absolutely! So much damage has been done, that reunification, itself, would not be an instant fix to bring the whole nation together again. But my point is that there is a deep, deep, emotionally felt desire of people on both sides of the DMZ that long, pray and plead with others to join with them in prayer for the reunification of north and south. That is truly where people's hearts are. The problem that persists is what type of government the reunified nation would have.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

[Plucky]

I, too, have spent time in S. Korea and will never forget the passionate pleas from people I met there to pray for the poor and suffering in N. Korea and for the reunification of the two countries. There is such a longing, both north and south, for the reunification of the nation and for the church as well. Christians in N. Korea are the most persecuted in the entire world.

 

While there, my friend and I toured the DMZ and were touched forever by sights of soldiers with guns and barbed wire that few Americans can relate to whatsoever. While in the DMZ we hiked down one of the long, deep tunnels that the N. Koreans made in their indefatigable efforts to enter and take over S. Korea. Physically walking through and seeing first-hand the tunnels profoundly demonstrated to us the communist's efforts to take over the southern nation, and was living proof of their determination.

 

It should be understood that Kim Jong II and his communist regime have poisoned the minds of many with their corrupt ideologies and this will not die with their leader. Kim Jong II was hand picked by his father, and ended up being significantly more evil as a ruler. There is no guarantee that any of Kim Jong II's sons will be a relief from the former iron-fisted, demon possessed ruler and his administration.

 

As Americans, we cannot imagine the type of fear and desperation the people of S. Korea live under, and the immense suffering of the N. Koreans. This is an incredibly sensitive moment for the people of both nations, and they are truly in need of our prayers.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

 

I think the older generation wants to reunify. I don't think the younger generation does. It would be very, very difficult. In fact the S. Korean government just started a special Reunification channel in S Korea aimed at the younger generation.

[myfunnybunch]

But my point is that there is a deep, deep, emotionally felt desire of people on both sides of the DMZ that long, pray and plead with others to join with them in prayer for the reunification of north and south. That is truly where people's hearts are.

 

Yes. This is exactly what our South Korean exchange student said. She said that there are still people who remember their relatives on the other side of the border, and that South Koreans, at least (since I'm assuming she didn't have much opportunity to converse with people from North Korea), consider North and South Korea to be one country, divided, rather than two separate countries. She was quite passionate about it. I wish we could have delved more deeply into the topic, but even though her English is very good, our conversation was hampered a little by language.

 

I wish she was still here so that we could talk about this some more now. Skype and Facebook aren't quite the same.

 

ETA: Perhaps the reunification education is working? Our exchange student (early 20's), as well as her friends, felt very strongly that Korea is one country, and that the world thinks wrongly about North and South Korea being two separate countries. She seems to believe that the fault and real tension lies with China and the U.S., and I am assuming she didn't come up with this entirely on her own.

 

Cat

Edited December 19, 2011 by myfunnybunch

[Mergath]

Kim Il Sung, Kim Jong II's father, founded an ideology called “Juche,†which centers on the worship of the country’s leaders. Please keep in mind that there is no choice in worshiping these men as gods, they either do it or face torture or death. I doubt there will be many who genuinely grieve this event except for those close to the dictator and his government that live lavishly at the complete expense of the nation, most of whom are poor peasants.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

 

I'm sure many are very quietly glad to see him gone, but there are also many who do truly revere the leaders as gods and will be sad to see him die. That doesn't mean their lives won't improve, but North Korea has taken brain washing to a whole new level.

 

And isn't Juche more about self-reliance than about leader worship? That's always been my understanding.

[mommymilkies]

So, it's not OK to feel relief upon the NATURAL death of a BRUTAL dictator? :confused:

 

Sometimes sympathies can be misplaced and sometimes death is a blessing.

 

I agree. I honestly have no sympathy for him. From my knowledge of what he has done to the people of North Korea, I believe he got more than his fair share of time on this earth.

[LeslieAnneLevine]

One has to wonder--did Havel and Hitchens pick the third to go?

 

I love the thought of this! :lol:

[Heather in Neverland]

:iagree:

 

Yes - and for those who do not think they should celebrate his death, perhaps celebrate is just the wrong word? .

 

You hit the nail on the head.

 

I am not sad he died. I don't feel sorry for him or for his family really. And I truly hope that his death brings some hope for the people of North Korea. And I am confident that he is paying for his sins as I type.

 

But I will not lower myself to CELEBRATE the death of anyone as I feel that says more about me than it does about Kim Jong Il.

[pqr]

We may not be mourning his passing, but apparently (at least according to the NK news) nature is in mourning.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16297811

[KristenR]

So, it's not OK to feel relief upon the NATURAL death of a BRUTAL dictator? :confused:

 

Sometimes sympathies can be misplaced and sometimes death is a blessing.

 

:iagree:

[Audrey]

We may not be mourning his passing, but apparently (at least according to the NK news) nature is in mourning.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16297811

 

Oh. Wow. :blink: That's just.... reaaalllllyyyy stretching it. It would be laughable if it weren't so pathetic.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Audrey
spelling

[SonshineLearner]

Oh. Wow. :blink: That's just.... reaaalllllyyyy stretching it. It would be laughable if it weren't so pathetic.

(Seems like the above news has to almost be a joke)

 

If any of the Koreans are mourning his death, my guess would be that it is only because they hope that it doesn't get worse than the hell on earth they've been served for so long. I remember the woman who was killed because of handing a Bible to someone and the man who was killed/shot because he had made a long distance phone call to maybe... relatives?? at his place of business. China looks great compared to N. Korea.

:(