PSAT results...sigh

[BakersDozen]

I'm considering putting my dc in high school. My 15yo got her PSAT scores today. She hasn't seen them but I opened the envelope and almost cried. I can't believe how poorly she did. I am so upset and do not know what to do now. I won't even post her scores, I am that upset and embarassed by them. I thought we were doing so well with school and yet now I am rethinking this entire homeschool thing after about 6th grade. I didn't expect her math to be great yet I never expected it to be this low. Her reading score was ridiculous as was her writing skills score. I fully intend to get the test booklet so we can go over what she missed yet if this is the end result of my homeschooling then I feel I should call it quits, at least at the higher level.

 

Good grief...on the Reasoning and Inference section she got FIVE out of twelve correct?! Words and Phrases section THREE out of seven?? Grammatical Relationships SEVEN out of thirteen correct?? This is ridiculous! The girl has had vocabulary, grammar, writing and challenging reading all these years and this is the result? What am I doing wrong???

 

I'm sitting here watching my next "set" of dc and wondering what disservice I am doing to them if I keep schooling them through the higher levels. What a dreadful feeling. :(

 

Please someone else tell me your dc didn't do as well as you'd liked. So many wonderful posts about high scores and then there's my dd...lovely.

[creekland]

WHOA!

 

There are a few tidbits I'd like to share.

 

For one, the AVERAGE results at my public high school tend to be in the 40s for each subsection. That's average. For every student who is higher, there is one who is lower (or more than one if someone scored really high). Remember, only those who are considering going to college take the test. Those who plan on community college, technical school, or work don't take it nor do the low level drop outs. Our school does not have everyone take the test "just because."

 

On here (WTM), the people who tend to report are those who do REALLY well. They are happy - and they should be. There are FAR MORE who lurk than post. Draw your own conclusions. Ditto that with College Confidential if you read there.

 

NOT every student is created/designed or destined to be a superstar academic student or test taker. No matter what you do, those who score high will be in the minority of students. The TEST is geared that way so the percentages have certain scores. Average is meant to be the same each year and all averages nationwide are also in the 40s for each subtest. They'll adjust it to be that way on purpose each year.

 

That said, ALL students have their niche in life. As our student's guidance counselor our job is to help them find that niche, not get them all to be in the top 5 - 10% of students. We don't all expect our students to be the star football player (or insert your own sport) for obvious reasons. We also can't expect them all to be star academic achievers. MOST niches out there are quite suitable for "average" academic students who shine elsewhere. Find one (or a few to choose from) to aim your student toward and both you and they should end up happier. Not all need to go to college. Not all who go to college need top PSAT scores. It helps, sure, but there are many, many other routes to a successful life.

 

All is not lost.

 

I'm not at all anti-public school, but if you're expecting so much better, you might not find it. I pulled my kids from public school due to the poor education there. ;) Check the schools near you before just assuming they are that much better. Check their PSAT averages... you might find they match.

 

My middle son is an academic whiz. That's great because since he was in 3rd grade he's wanted to be a doctor. To be a doctor one needs high stats. He's designed for his desired niche.

 

My youngest is not capable of his brother's academic success and almost committed suicide over his feelings of failure comparing himself (which we NEVER alluded to - quite the opposite). It took us quite a while to get him to see what I'm telling you now, but now that his brain is seeing things correctly and he sees a future for himself that he wants/likes, he's so much more content in being who he is. He won't (likely) have superstar stats and I'm ok with that. We'll still try, of course, and provide a good education in spite of his being in public school, but his niche is elsewhere. He's perfectly designed for what he likes to do. It's just not so dependent on the PSAT/SAT/ACT. ;)

[Running the race]

I agree with Creekland. My 15yo's scores were above average, but not stellar. It is frustrating because I know he is gifted. He wants to be an engineer. But he also has ADD and maybe some processing issues.

 

I wouldn't expect public school to be an automatic solution. Look more carefully at the percentages. You might be surprised how well your child did.

[speedmom4]

I only have one child who does really well on standardized tests. She did well on the PSAT. She is my ONLY child who thrives on academics. My second dd has always been average (even a little low average) academically. She has always compared herself to her older sister. We have always encouraged her about all the things she excels at that her sister does not.

 

It is very hard to read this forum and not compare our own children. I used to do a lot of comparing and it made me feel like a failure as a homeschool mother. I finally made myself stop doing it. It isn't productive.

 

A few years ago I decided that I wasn't only homeschooling for academics. We have higher goals in mind. I want to raise healthy children who love God and other human beings. I want them to have compassion for people less fortunate than themselves. I want them to develop a servant's heart. I want them to be hard workers.

 

I think it is good to remember WHY you are homeschooling. I wrote out an entire mini-manifesto a few years ago so that any time I got discouraged I could go back and encourage myself. I posted it on the refrigerator for quite a while because I needed the daily reminder.

 

When I look back over the years and see what my children have accomplished it makes me proud. Each of my children is at a different level academically, spiritually, socially, and physically.

 

I hope you get some encouraging responses! Don't give up!!

 

Blessings,

Elise in NC

[Amy in TX]

You said your dd is 15, so I'm assuming this is the first time she has taken this test.

 

My dd (now almost 17) took it for the second time in October. After her first time a year ago, my reaction was a lot like yours. I was very unpleasantly surprised with her scores. But she took it again this year, and we have just received those scores. With absolutely no practice or preparation, she scored much higher.

 

I think maturity is a big factor, along with just being used to this type of test. And I don't know about yours, but my dd is just an awful tester. Multiple-choice tests in particular never seem to reflect her mastery of the material. It's a problem.

 

I don't think you need to blame this on your homeschooling! I know that's my tendency whenever one of my dc has a setback, but really, you know her knowledge and abilities.

 

I'm sorry you're feeling distraught about this--I know what that's like! :grouphug:

Edited December 8, 2011 by Amy in TX
Mistyped amount of score improvement (was thinking in SAT rather than PSAT terms).

[nancy in nj]

Please don't judge the quality of your homeschooling by the PSAT!!

 

Did your daughter specifically prep for the tricks and gimmicks of this specific test? It is not really a test of knowledge, but a test of how well the student recognizes the tricks. Nor, I would argue is it a reasoning/aptitude test anymore--if that were the case, it would not be possible to substantially increase performance through test prep.

 

In math, this test is not so much about solving the problems in the normal step-by-step fashion as it is figuring out how to quickly eliminate/plug-in the answers to solve the problems quickly. Many great math students don't score as high as would be expected on this test. The Chalkdust SAT lectures are very good at connecting the math to the test structure/elimination process.

 

Same with writing. The problem with the multiple choice is that all of the choices are worded in a convoluted manner. Most of the choices are examples of crappy writing so that it makes it difficult to distinguish the choice that is technically incorrect from the ones that are very poorly written but technically correct. When you review the test with your student, ask them how they have revised the wording to make it well-written. I bet she will come up with a far better sentence than any of the choices! The good news is that this section is very predictable--they seem to cycle through certain preferred errors that can be recognized. Grubers SAT prep book has an excellent review of the grammar concepts found on the SAT.

 

On the SAT, the essay needs to be written to their scoring system. IEW has a great lecture on this topic.

 

The Reading section is perhaps the hardest to prep for but can be improved through practice with prior exams.

 

Really, all the PSAT score indicates is that your student should prep for the actual SAT. Also, many students perform much higher on the ACT since it is more knowledge based and less gimmicky.

 

This is just one test and by having a PSAT under your belt at 15 you are ahead of the game in preparing for when it counts!

 

Nancy :grouphug:

[Miss Marple]

One thing to consider is that the PSAT is not necessarily an indicator of the student's ability to succeed in college. Both of my older boys did well on the PSAT, but certainly not stellar - not even commended level. BUT oldest ds has gone on to be a 3.96 GPA in petroleum engineering and fully scholarshipped (is that even a word?) for the past 2 years. My second son is just a freshman, but he is doing well once he got over his freshman slump.

 

A less than stellar score on a standardized test is not necessarily an indicator that your student would do better in a public school. However, it is a good way to re-evaluate your methods, curriculum, and have your student re-evaluate his/her goals. FWIW, the PSAT was the worst test for my ds#3 (who has LDs) - he scores higher on the SAT and ACT.

[Ailaena]

The psat and sat tests are tests that you absolutely have to study for if you want to do well. They are aptitude tests, not achievement tests, and thus, their format is different - they are tricky. I hate all tests put out by the college board for mostly that reason. DD just took the Chem subject test last Sat. On the diagnostic test she missed something like 35, but after one week of reading the book she missed no more than six on the next few practice tests.

 

Unfortunately, since the college board is the one that publishes the subject tests as well as the AP tests, I have had to suck it up and at least buy a test prep book here and there.:glare: After last year, though, I told dd no more AP tests. I simply can NOT stand teaching to the test, I'm done. And I will say something to that effect in my school profile stuff one day:D

 

When you want an assessment of scholastic achievement, try the ACT. When you want a measure of how well you were able to teach to the test, try the P/SAT. By the time your 4th kid has reached high school you will probably be secure in the fact that tests don't matter because your children are receiving the rare gift of a custom-tailored solid education and a close family bond.

 

And here's your grain of salt:tongue_smilie:

Edited December 10, 2011 by Ailaena

[HiddenJewel]

That would be so frustrating! But it could just be a matter of not understanding how to take the test or test-anxiety.

 

You can access all the problems missed through your student's College Board account if you want to see what was missed.

[3Blessings]

One thing to consider is that the PSAT is not necessarily an indicator of the student's ability to succeed in college. Both of my older boys did well on the PSAT, but certainly not stellar - not even commended level. BUT oldest ds has gone on to be a 3.96 GPA in petroleum engineering and fully scholarshipped (is that even a word?) for the past 2 years. My second son is just a freshman, but he is doing well once he got over his freshman slump.

 

A less than stellar score on a standardized test is not necessarily an indicator that your student would do better in a public school. However, it is a good way to re-evaluate your methods, curriculum, and have your student re-evaluate his/her goals. FWIW, the PSAT was the worst test for my ds#3 (who has LDs) - he scores higher on the SAT and ACT.

 

In my former career, as a university counselor, I went to several SAT, ACT sessions. I always heard the same story: these tests are a predictor of how a student will do in their FIRST year of university. Many kids go on to do well after that first year.

 

It sounds like you recognize the need to review and try again. The PSAT is a great place to practice taking the test. Take it several times. Then when your dc get to the real deal it will be a very familiar format.

[ciyates]

At first I was very resistant to teaching to the test. It seemed stupid to me. However I thought about my life/work situations/college experiences and have chosen to use this as an opportunity to teach my son an important lesson, "You have to complete a task the way the boss wants" The PSAT is not an indicator of how well someone is doing in school/will do in school. I am currently using Jean Burke College Genius Prep. It is awesome. It teaches you the tricks and tips for the PSAT or SAT. Love the program. Don't let one test result get you down!

[choirfarm]

First of all you haven't failed!!!!

 

Did she take any practice tests before?? It really does help.

 

Some people are not good standardized test takers. My dh was not. He and his family were awed by my scores as he had around 1000 on the SAT. ( Before writing section existed.) But my dh graduated Phi Beta Kappa from college and at the top of his med school class. He aced his boards. He is really smart!! The SAT just wasn't his thing!!!

[LinRTX]

Please don't judge your homeschooling on this test. Not all very smart, capable children do well on the test.

 

My oldest daughter has test anxiety. She is very smart, but these timed test cause her to freeze and she cannot think. Her scores are awful.

 

She will graduated in one week from college with a degree in Information Technology with a 4.0 GPA. She was homescooled all the way through highschool. She did awful on both the PSAT and the SAT. I prepped her for both. She does not test well under those conditions.

 

This test does not indicate anything about your home school

 

Linda

[Guest]

I'm just really relieved to see you around, honey. :grouphug:

[Nan in Mass]

LuvnMySvn - Please go look at the PSAT poll I just posted and read the post under it. If most people take the poll (hopefully they will), it should give you some idea about how few people actually posted about high scores compared to how many people here had children who took the test. If you put that together with the advice here about how good an indicator the PSAT is of academic success or success in college, it should be comforting.

 

About deciding whether you are succeeding or failing at homeschooling - If you want to do that via a standardized test, I have a suggestion. Are you near a community college? You might want to have your student take the placement test for the community college (it was free at ours) and see how she scores with that test. It is still a standardized test, but it is not one designed for a particular state or one designed by the college board company. Just don't forget that it is meant to be taken at the end of senior year. : )

Nan

[ereks mom]

I only have one child who does really well on standardized tests. She did well on the PSAT. She is my ONLY child who thrives on academics. My second dd has always been average (even a little low average) academically. She has always compared herself to her older sister. We have always encouraged her about all the things she excels at that her sister does not.

 

It is very hard to read this forum and not compare our own children. I used to do a lot of comparing and it made me feel like a failure as a homeschool mother. I finally made myself stop doing it. It isn't productive.

 

A few years ago I decided that I wasn't only homeschooling for academics. We have higher goals in mind. I want to raise healthy children who love God and other human beings. I want them to have compassion for people less fortunate than themselves. I want them to develop a servant's heart. I want them to be hard workers.

 

I think it is good to remember WHY you are homeschooling. I wrote out an entire mini-manifesto a few years ago so that any time I got discouraged I could go back and encourage myself. I posted it on the refrigerator for quite a while because I needed the daily reminder.

 

When I look back over the years and see what my children have accomplished it makes me proud. Each of my children is at a different level academically, spiritually, socially, and physically.

 

I hope you get some encouraging responses! Don't give up!!

 

Blessings,

Elise in NC

 

:iagree: Wonderful post!

Edited December 8, 2011 by ereks mom

[8filltheheart]

I agree w/ everyone else. Goodness, these tests don't reflect much of anything!! We know a couple that had a ds score a perfect 36 on the ACT. He went off to university majoring in chemical engineering. Our oldest spoke to the mom and she told him he needed to consider a different major b/c her genius ds was struggling in chemE and was thinking about changing majors (which her ds did end up doing.)

 

Our ds scored a low score the first time he took the ACT and then a middle score the 2nd and a high middle score the 3rd. He went to the same university as the above young man and our ds graduated cum laude in chemical engineering! ;) (I didn't even have this ds take the PSAT b/c I knew he wouldn't score well.)

[Janice in NJ]

Hi! Waving! DON'T CRY!

 

I hope that I haven't contributed to your anxiety. (I really wasn't looking for props. I really was trying to turn a bad day into a good day by getting a quickie answer to my question about commended status.)

 

Background: My dd is NOT my oldest. She's my middle child. I've learned a thing or two about this standardized testing thing. It's not so much about raw talent anymore. It's about gearing them up for those tests - without dragging them through it. They have to do it on their own.... but they need help. How do you balance THAT one? :001_smile:

 

A bit of background on my dd: she wanted to take honors classes at our community college this year. Not because she's super-motivated. She wanted a competitive transcript but doesn't like online classes. She didn't want to take AP classes online either; she likes live people. She's not motivated by screen-contact. So I offered her the CC route. (Our cc is actually well-respected in our state.) However, she can't take dual enrollment courses without taking their placement exams. AND even if you take their placement exams, the only way to take dual enrollment honors courses is to nail a certain SAT score. So she took the SAT last March as a sophomore to see if she could nail the score she needed. I made her prep for that test. I sat with her. I assigned work and then checked it. She did well enough to take the honors classes. But I told her repeatedly that she was going to have to improve her score A LOT if she was going to reach for National Merit. I did NOT help her prep for that test. She improved her score on her own. Even though now she admits that she could have done a lot more. My point? This kid had a base line. She didn't go into this test cold. She had already reached a milestone before this PSAT test.

 

We have friends who run a high-priced tutoring business. It's a one-on-one program with a very high price tag. They cater to wealthy families who experience that same jaw-dropping experience you had with their high school juniors. The company president has told me in the past that his phone begins ringing off the HOOK during the third or fourth weekend in December. All it takes is those PSAT results and he's got staffing problems.

 

(You said your dd was only 15. Is she a high school junior or sophomore?) In either case, KNOW that you are not alone! All over the country parents are dealing with this numbers game in a very real way. They say 1.5 million juniors take that test. That means that 750,000 sets of parents are staring at a paper that says their kid is less than "average." What EVER THAT MEANS??????? Really! Start asking around - I've taken a real interest in this testing thing for two years now. Most successful people I talk to can't remember those tests or never took them. In either case, I have yet to meet hardly anyone over the age of 35 who remembers nailing standardized tests in high school in any kind of spectacular way. I'm convinced that this whole process has swelled in importance in the last couple of decades with the rise of the computer database. You just can't cheaply sort people without turning them into digits. I know that sounds like sour grapes, but it's true. How do you sort a person without trying to dissect them? How do you sort 50,000 kids with a staff of six people unless you just turn them all into numbers and hit "sort." Done.

 

Anyway - back to the sighing parents. I WAS ONE when older ds took the PSAT. The bottom line? I hadn't tutored him so he didn't do well on that test. Back to my friends with the tutoring business. We live near some very affluent towns. The kids in those towns/school districts have better test scores. The parents who LIVE in those towns say that it's not because the schools are THAT much better. It's because the parents who live in those towns can afford to hire my friends to SIT with their kids and work through the test prep materials with them. I'll say it again: The reason so many kids are going to move from those average scores to better scores? Because someone will sit with them and take them through the prep books. Really! One of the biggest tutoring strategies is to help the kid see that they can be more successful by understanding the test and practicing the test. Read the book, work the problems, take practice tests, review what you got wrong and why, and then try again. That's the big secret to success. BUT know that even if you do that, it is still no silver bullet. Some kids just don't do well in this kind of high pressure environment. Some kids do. So you can't force success or be sure of achieving it. It just doesn't work that way. All kids can learn to play the piano, but not all of them are going to be the best. No matter what you do. They can't all be first in anything ever; that defeats the idea of "first." No matter how hard we work, not everyone can be in the top 1%. Even if we managed to teach calculus to all of our three years olds and then we ranked them, 99 out of 100 three-year-olds would fail to be in the top 1% at calculus.

 

Back to what you can do for starters - nearly everyone agrees that the very best way to raise your score is by picking up a copy of the College Board SAT prep book and just working your way through it. Really. It's the first go-to step. If your child comes to the table with a reasonably good background in reading, writing, and math through algebra and geometry, you are ready to begin.

 

Just get the book and work through it. Working through books is probably something you are already very good at doing. Her scores will probably go up and so will your confidence. I'm sure you have laid a strong foundation. DON'T GIVE UP and tear the whole house down just because you don't like the color of your drapes. You are probably NOT as far away from a positive experience as you think you are! :001_smile:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Official-SAT-Study-Guide-2nd/dp/0874478529/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1323354636&sr=8-1

 

Oh - one more thing. Often I have seen fancy prep programs that guarantee that if your kid's score is within a certain range, they can raise his score by something like 200 points (SAT points - that would be 20 PSAT points). And they offer a money back guarantee. Why? Because they think their program is so great? No! Because they know that nearly all kids will see a 200 point increase just by learning a few simple techniques and by spending the time practicing. The odds are in their favor if they just force the kid to sit in the prep class and log the time. They know that very few parents are going to be forced to ask for their money back. Some will. But I suspect they just increase the price of the class for all kids in order to cover those minimal losses. Once again, I really think this is just a game of odds.

 

Find a prep program that offers this guarantee? "Your kid will score in the top 1% or you get your money back." No there's an interesting business proposition! giggle

 

Like I said, just get the book - it's less than twenty bucks - and work through it.

 

And then, no matter WHAT happens, you have to keep this in perspective. Kids are people just like adults. There is place for all of us in real life. God made each of us and cares about us deeply. Those tests are used to sort children. But life doesn't work like that. There is room in real life for everyone to contribute. God doesn't sort people according to how much he loves them or cares for them. He does not assign a number to our worth, so we can be ranked. If you lose that perspective, your kids may too. And that's a very slippery slope. Please don't lead your precious family in the wrong direction. They need your leadership in this. Teach them to work toward goals without losing sight of what matters in life. Teach them to lead balanced, healthy lives. They need your mature perspective on this. I know it is hard, but it's part of what we're called to do as parents. Teach them to handle real life by remembering your values even when your goals are challenged. Dig deeply and remember who you are and what matters in life. And then turn and lead your children toward happy, healthy places. You can do this! (Even when it isn't easy.) :001_smile:

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

(I truly mean that when I say that. I long to enjoy this journey, not because it is easy, but because God is good. Life is meant to be savored. Even when it isn't easy. PLEASE know that you are not alone. Isolation is horrible, fake, and JUST SO NOT TRUE! YOU ARE NOT ALONE!!!!!! :grouphug::grouphug::001_smile:)

Edited December 8, 2011 by Janice in NJ

[Myeightkiddies]

I've seen thousands of low PSAT scores from children who did very well on the SAT/ACT. These children received scholarships and were quite successful in college. I encourage you not to over-react.

[HiddenJewel]

The PSAT is a great place to practice taking the test. Take it several times. Then when your dc get to the real deal it will be a very familiar format.

 

Just to clarify for anyone, you can only take the PSAT once a year. So you only get the chance to practice if you start in 9th or 10th grade.

[Shelly in VA]

Please don't judge the quality of your homeschooling by the PSAT!!

 

Did your daughter specifically prep for the tricks and gimmicks of this specific test? It is not really a test of knowledge, but a test of how well the student recognizes the tricks. Nor, I would argue is it a reasoning/aptitude test anymore--if that were the case, it would not be possible to substantially increase performance through test prep.

 

Really, all the PSAT score indicates is that your student should prep for the actual SAT. Also, many students perform much higher on the ACT since it is more knowledge based and less gimmicky.

 

This is just one test and by having a PSAT under your belt at 15 you are ahead of the game in preparing for when it counts!

 

Nancy :grouphug:

 

:iagree:

 

A couple of things stand out to me. First, your dd is just 15! I have been filled with guilt over the fact that my dd16 did not take this test last year as a sophomore, and that she has not already taken the SAT multiple times, as many of her peers have. So, by having your dd take the test now, you have done two things for her. First, she has had the opportunity to test in that setting for practice. Second, you now have a good idea about where to focus her study efforts, if you decide to do that, although her scores will most likely rise on their own after an additional year of schooling.

 

Secondly, IMHO, the PSAT and SAT demonstrate one huge skill, and that is PERFORMANCE ON THE PSAT AND SAT. That's it. Seriously. They are a hoop to jump through for college admissions, and, as others have posted, they are about learning tricks and strategies as much as anything else. If they were otherwise, students would not be able to significantly raise their scores over a short period of time with test prep books. I mean, really, if test prep alone without a core base of knowledge garnered high scores, or if test scores alone demonstrated actual knowledge and skill, then in theory we could just let our kids play video games for years, then set them down with a stack of Kaplan books at the age of 15 and be done schooling by 16, and we all know it doesn't work that way!

 

Please keep in mind your dd's age, testing experience, and the very narrow scope of this one test. You know your dd, and you know whether or not she is academically moving forward monthly or quarterly. If she is, then you are doing right by her. I don't mean to sound dismissive of your concerns (believe me, I could have been more thrilled with my dd16's score of 59/80 on the math!), but I hope you won't put too much pressure on yourself or her over this one piece of paper.

 

Hang in there!

Edited December 8, 2011 by Shelly in MD

[Amy in TX]

I encourage you not to over-react.

 

Excellent advice, and so very hard for some (ie, me) to follow! OP, you will have many more chances to freak out as your dd progresses through high school (read some of my posts on this board), lol. Hang in there! :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Shelly in VA]

Excellent advice, and so very hard for some (ie, me) to follow! OP, you will have many more chances to freak out as your dd progresses through high school (read some of my posts on this board), lol. Hang in there! :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

So, so, so true!!! (Today, I can post this with :lol:. Tomorrow is quite possibly :svengo:, or :crying:, or even :cursing:. It's not just teens with the raging hormones and emotions, it's everyone associated with them!!)

[3Blessings]

Just to clarify for anyone, you can only take the PSAT once a year. So you only get the chance to practice if you start in 9th or 10th grade.

 

You can only take it OFFICIALLY once a year. There are many books out there that offer PSAT and SAT and ACT tests formats on CD. They are the same format, can be timed, yield a score. Worth a look.

[HiddenJewel]

You can only take it OFFICIALLY once a year. There are many books out there that offer PSAT and SAT and ACT tests formats on CD. They are the same format, can be timed, yield a score. Worth a look.

 

That is good to know.

[margoargo]

I don't have a lot of time to read through all the responses, but I just wanted to encourage the original poster. I wouldn't throw in the towel based on these results.

 

I say this based on my own experience, so take it as just my 2 cents, but I did put my gifted daughter into an academically rigorous private school for high school (last year) - because I felt just too intimidated to do high school; well, her PSAT was definitely not what I expected (her math was pretty bad). I am sitting here in the opposite position from you thinking maybe I should take her out of school; have they dumbed her down? She spends SO much time on homework, but it certainly is not reflected on her math psat score at all!

 

So, there is no guarantee that school is going to magically make your daughter's scores go up. I do think setting time aside to really study for these tests is the way to go - and believe me, you will have gobs more time to do so as a homeschooler than as a school kid. If I had it to do over again I would have stuck it out with homeschooling. Again, this is just my input.

 

Hope this helps!

[Nan in Mass]

Also to clarify - the scoring does not work like a normal test, where a 50% is very bad indeed. The PSAT is scaled, which means that a 50% means that your child did better than about 50% of college bound students and worse than 50% of college bound students - in other words, JUST FINE.

 

It would be very upsetting to see that your child's percentile if you didn't know this.

 

Nan

[snowbeltmom]

Also to clarify - the scoring does not work like a normal test, where a 50% is very bad indeed. The PSAT is scaled, which means that a 50% means that your child did better than about 50% of college bound students and worse than 50% of college bound students - in other words, JUST FINE.

 

It would be very upsetting to see that your child's percentile if you didn't know this.

 

Nan

 

:iagree:

 

In addition, I have read that some schools are now limiting the students who are permitted to take the PSAT to those students the school thinks will score high. I am not sure how widespread this is, but this could potentially skew the percentiles as well.

[HiddenJewel]

Also to clarify - the scoring does not work like a normal test, where a 50% is very bad indeed. The PSAT is scaled, which means that a 50% means that your child did better than about 50% of college bound students and worse than 50% of college bound students - in other words, JUST FINE.

 

It would be very upsetting to see that your child's percentile if you didn't know this.

 

Nan

 

Right. It is a percentile, not a percent.

[Miss Marple]

:iagree:

 

In addition, I have read that some schools are now limiting the students who are permitted to take the PSAT to those students the school thinks will score high. I am not sure how widespread this is, but this could potentially skew the percentiles as well.

 

This is what our local schools are doing. The counselor for the high school "invites" students to take the PSAT based on their grades.

[Tokyomarie]

This is what our local schools are doing. The counselor for the high school "invites" students to take the PSAT based on their grades.

 

This is just wrong! Other than its function as the NMSQT, it is SUPPOSED to be a chance for all students to take the test under standard conditions so they have an opportunity to practice for the SAT before it counts for college admission.

 

Of course many parents may not be aware of how the PSAT is supposed to work, but if I was a parent in such a school, I would be on top of this. I would first politely request to register my child and if they refused to allow I would be calling the Collegeboard about it.

 

ETA: my son,who would be in 11th grade this year in homeschool, has been reclassified by the school he entered as a 10th grader due to the nature of the program. 10th graders were not given information about the PSAT, but I wanted ds to take it this year so I dug up the information & got him registered.

Edited December 9, 2011 by Tokyomarie

[MommyThrice]

I thought we were doing so well with school....<clip>

The girl has had vocabulary, grammar, writing and challenging reading all these years...

 

You are a better judge of what she has learned than one 3-hour test!!!

 

I assume that you homeschool because you want your child to receive an excellent education. You must feel that your curriculum choices are better than the ps, or you wouldn't be going to all this trouble. And I'm sure she is way ahead of where should would be if she attended ps - however good it may be - because you just can't beat the student/teacher ratio.

 

Get her a good test prep book and have her work through several practice tests before the next PSAT or SAT. Maybe she needs help with test-taking, but that doesn't mean she hasn't received a great education. Those are two totally different animals!

[butterflymommy]

There are many things to consider here. First, remember that the people bragging about their kids' great scores are doing so, because, well, their kids have great scores! People whose kids do terribly don't brag about the scores. So it may skew your view of what the norm is.

 

Second, had she taken practice PSAT or SAT tests before? These tests are a whole "subject" unto themselves. Had she done a prep course? Does she have SAT prep books? Khan Academy has a whole section on SAT prep. Remember, the PSAT is supposed to be a "practice" test. Now you can look at her weaknesses on the test and proceed accordingly.

 

Third, and I know this is a huge subject of debate, but all an SAT score proves is how well you did on the SAT. Some people are just good at taking these tests, and some people just aren't. This isn't to say that the test isn't a legitimate reflection of ability on some level, but it's not a be-all end-all. I know a man who is a classics scholar, and he bombed every standardized test he ever took. Granted, that's an extreme example, but there really are some people who simply don't test well in a standardized format.

 

There are lots of tricks and simple methods to improving an SAT score. A great book is this one, I can't recommend it enough:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Up-Your-Score-2011-2012-Underground/dp/0761158731

 

And fourth, as far as putting her in school goes, I so hear you on this one. I too look at "the next set" and think, well, it's not too late to save them from their crazy mom and homeschooling! But unless you are one of the lucky few zoned for a truly superb public school, or unless you can afford tuition at an amazing private school, chances are she is getting a better education at home.:grouphug:

[Elizabeth in WA]

And fourth, as far as putting her in school goes, I so hear you on this one. I too look at "the next set" and think, well, it's not too late to save them from their crazy mom and homeschooling! But unless you are one of the lucky few zoned for a truly superb public school, or unless you can afford tuition at an amazing private school, chances are she is getting a better education at home.:grouphug:

 

My tenth grader did horribly on writing. By horribly I mean 35%tile horribly. It was not a shock and public high school would not help. I know ps wouldn't help because he has been in ps and has an IEP that essentially lets him and the school out of doing the hard work of getting my speech/language impaired Aspie anywhere near ready for college level writing.

 

However, we have a plan for next year, and as I pointed out to him, getting his math up from 97%tile is going to be a lot harder than bringing his writing score up. Part of the plan is not so much test oriented as straight up English language skills oriented: Saxon Grammar was started at the end of August when we started this school year and he is taking the developmental "Intro to Comp" at the local cc next quarter. (He needs feedback from someone other than me and preparation for classroom freshman English comp as a social environment.) Part involves direct test prep and will include prep books at home throughout this school year and also a classroom prep course next summer. Those prep courses, btw, are full of publicly and privately schooled kids.

 

I wouldn't panic about a tenth graders score. 9+ months is a long time to work with and you can do a lot in both the underlying skills (more math, more English) and specific test prep in that time IF the test is important to you. If it isn't, then you need only consider whether scores represent anything actually deficient in your child's education and address that.

[TravelingChris]

I have had two kids do the PSAT so far. One did very well, one did not. I also have two kids who went to college and took ACT tests. THe one who did not very well on the PSAT did very well on the ACT and ended up having a 100% tuition scholarship. SHe is finishing her first semester and she will have better than a 3.5 GPA. We don't yet know how much better but it will be better. The other one who did great on the PSAT did a little bit worse on the ACT than his sister. HE was better on the SAT. His first semester GPA was nowhere near 3.5.

[creekland]

Our school finally passed out their PSAT results. Youngest did ok He got 161 composite with 53 CR, 50 M, 58 WR. Since I'm in the middle school full time now I've no idea how that compares to his peer group except he beat all but one student on one subtest (M) from his Wood Shop 2 class - no surprise there. "Academic" kids often don't take Wood Shop. My guy loves the class, but has decided not to take Wood Shop 3 next year as he's had enough of the behavior/bullying issues after 2 classes.

 

But I digress. In general, I'm more or less perfectly happy with his results as they fit him.

 

In Math, he got 9 out of 11 Geometry questions correct and Geometry is what he did last year (our curriculum at school followed by TT to fill in the gaps in the spring). He hasn't done any math since about May, so his retention of that seems good. He missed quite a few more Alg questions, but hasn't had Alg 1 since 8th grade (10th grade now) and he only missed one "easy" question. This spring he has Alg 2 which I'll have him work on both curricula at the same time (our school and TT - probably TT - same topic - first). Then, with practice tests in the fall, I'm thinking he ought to get in the 60's next year.

 

For reading... we'll just have to see. This Keystone Honors course he's doing really doesn't appear to be much better than our school course, except they do more in the online course as they don't need to cut anything for testing days, movie days, or whatever. English (in general) isn't my forte, so his score might have to be what it will be. I'm happy he wasn't in the 40's as our school's average for reading is pretty low. This guy doesn't like to read on his own unless it's non-fiction and almost textbook like about Bio. While he maxed out an 8th grade standardized test (99th percentile), now that it's high school and more in depth material, he's not quite getting all the nuances. He's on the Aspie side of things, so nuances don't come easily at all.

 

Writing... I'm pleased. He's in the 90 something percentile with his 58, and again, that's not my forte. With some practice tests next year he ought to be able to boost that into the 60's too.

 

I'd love to see him in the straight 60's region for next year (180 - 210 composite). Time will tell If Bio were on the test, that one should be in the high 70's, but I doubt they'll add it for us. :tongue_smilie:

 

So that's us... Oldest skipped the PSAT. Middle son was a high scorer. Youngest is a little above average. They're all from the same family, but each fits their niche. ;)

[choirfarm]

But I digress. In general, I'm more or less perfectly happy with his results as they fit him.

 

 

Writing... I'm pleased. He's in the 90 something percentile with his 58, and again, that's not my forte. With some practice tests next year he ought to be able to boost that into the 60's too.

 

I'd love to see him in the straight 60's region for next year (180 - 210 composite). Time will tell If Bio were on the test, that one should be in the high 70's, but I doubt they'll add it for us. :tongue_smilie:

 

So that's us... Oldest skipped the PSAT. Middle son was a high scorer. Youngest is a little above average. They're all from the same family, but each fits their niche. ;)

 

Congrats!!!! His writing was really good if you look at the curve this year!!!

[readinmom]

You cannot compare your years of homeschooling to one standardized test. The PSAT is a difficult test, particularly if you are not familiar with the Reading section format. A student has to study the "formula" of how the answer fits the question.

 

I, too, was dismayed the first time my son took the test. He is a great reader, strong at grammar, but not strong in math. His math score was 90 points higher than his reading score. :confused:

 

Don't be discouraged. If the PSAT is going to be a focus for you and your child, you should really consider making the test prep part of your daily routine. Warm up each day with five questions, have her check the answers, then diagnose why she got them right or wrong. (Yes, it is just as important to realize why you are getting them right.)

 

HTH

[Laura in CA]

he beat all but one student on one subtest (M) from his Wood Shop 2 class - no surprise there. "Academic" kids often don't take Wood Shop. My guy loves the class, but has decided not to take Wood Shop 3 next year as he's had enough of the behavior/bullying issues after 2 classes.

 

But I digress.

 

I have to respond to this. :001_smile: My 16yo son (at ps) LOVES auto shop, but has had enough of the disrespect to the teacher (a great guy, a deacon at our church -- I am so impressed he is able to (sort of) handle these kids). So my son took auto shop 2 out of his schedule for the spring ...

 

He got his PSAT scores last week at the ps ... composite was 179 -- about what we expected. He's good at math, but a slow, deliberate reader. He's looking at going to a large state school, so the PSAT doesn't matter for him.

 

A wrinkle for our family is that his *younger* brother (14yo, still homeschooled) got over 50 points higher on the same PSAT. Yes, this discrepancy has caused "issues" (part of why older brother decided to go to ps last year), although we never, ever compare scores. (It helped that ds14 got his scores in the mail at least a week before ds16 got his.) But the boys are good friends (better friends, now that they're not home together all the time!).

[Laurie4b]

Was this the first time she took the PSAT? Did she take any practice PSATs?

Wait until you get the test booklet so that you can sit down and go over the questions with her.

Ds#1 was an anxious test-taker. He did fine in subjects in which he was sure of himself and not so fine in subjects he wasn't. Math--not so sure of himself. I was stunned by his scores the first time he took the PSAT--until I got the test booklet and saw that 3/4 of the questions missed were actually on stuff he knew! That helped him, too, to realize that it wasn't that he didn't know stuff, but that he was anxious. He did much better the second time he took it.

Ds#2 is much less diligent than ds#1 but is an excellent test taker. He aces standardized tests. Here's one example: they both took the same environmental science course and both had class averages in near 98%. Ds #1 studied for the AP for days and got a 3. Good. Ds #2 didn't study and got a 5. Just a confident test taker.

 

We improved ds#1's test taking ability by having him do lots of practice tests and take the SAT more often than needed.

 

Also, you can have your student take the ACT. Some kids are better at that than the PSAT or SAT.

[creekland]

I have to respond to this. :001_smile: My 16yo son (at ps) LOVES auto shop, but has had enough of the disrespect to the teacher (a great guy, a deacon at our church -- I am so impressed he is able to (sort of) handle these kids). So my son took auto shop 2 out of his schedule for the spring ...

 

He got his PSAT scores last week at the ps ... composite was 179 -- about what we expected. He's good at math, but a slow, deliberate reader. He's looking at going to a large state school, so the PSAT doesn't matter for him.

 

A wrinkle for our family is that his *younger* brother (14yo, still homeschooled) got over 50 points higher on the same PSAT. Yes, this discrepancy has caused "issues" (part of why older brother decided to go to ps last year), although we never, ever compare scores. (It helped that ds14 got his scores in the mail at least a week before ds16 got his.) But the boys are good friends (better friends, now that they're not home together all the time!).

 

It's interesting that our guys are sort of similar, except it's my youngest that's in ps - partially because he's not as "academic" as his older brother and he wants his own place to shine. He can do that at our ps. It's rather frustrating that they need to drop classes they like due to the behavior of the other students though... but I completely understand. I won't sub for those classes either.

 

My guys are also better with their friendship now that youngest doesn't feel like he's competing with middle son. Having his own path certainly helps.

[Laura in CA]

It's interesting that our guys are sort of similar, except it's my youngest that's in ps - partially because he's not as "academic" as his older brother and he wants his own place to shine. He can do that at our ps. It's rather frustrating that they need to drop classes they like due to the behavior of the other students though... but I completely understand.

 

I have a feeling our boys would get along ... if we weren't on opposite sides of the country. :001_smile:

 

I won't sub for those classes either.

I don't blame you! My son was just telling us today about having a sub in auto shop (and all the hi-jinks the boys pulled on him) and that he'd had the same sub in precalculus last year! I was thinking that was a wide range of classes to sub in! My son said the sub didn't know much about auto shop, and also didn't know much about precalc either ...

 

My guys are also better with their friendship now that youngest doesn't feel like he's competing with middle son. Having his own path certainly helps.

 

exactly :001_smile:

 

P.S. Yippee! I'm a royal larva :D

[KiminNJ]

The test is really a logic test.

 

I agree... I am very logical - my dd (15) is not. In one test prep book there was a math problem which was a simple multiplication problem of two numbers - each roughly 20MM. But the last digit of the first was "3" and of the second number it was "2". In the set of answers there was only one that ended with a "6" in the ones spot. I wouldn't even work that problem - I'd just pick "C"... I looked at her test booklet and she must have spent 2 full minutes multiplying it out. Even if she began multiplying - she could have stopped after 20 seconds and already realized it would end in "6"... but in the end when her columns were all croocked, she added incorrectly - couldn't find an exact match so she guessed (even worse)..LOL

 

For Christmas she too is getting College Prep Genius to teach her these tricks which may not come naturally to some kids. I did see online that a readiness benchmark for sophomores is CR49, Math47 and Writing48 for a 145 total. But with preparation and teaching some of these tricks, students can increase their scores on the PSAT from 20 to 60 points. Without preparation they estimate an average increase of 3-5 points. (That's kind of sad for a year's worth of public school - LOL)

 

I WISH I could share my dd's scores BUT the College Board called me today to tell me the local high school she took the test in never submitted an answer sheet for her. The school that day told us they had NEVER had a homeschooler sit for the PSAT's so of course my husband thinks this is a conspiracy - LOL... So I am in the dark as to where she is at - I'd rather know just how much prep she needs. I actually came online tonight to see if anyone else has no results... :(

 

Also - don't underestimate the pressure of sitting in a cafeteria with 300+ students at big tables. We now test our dd at the local library instead of at home in her PJ's...