Near to being a CM dropout

[SorrelZG]

Originally I was inspired by Charlotte Mason but time has found me discouraged as a parent and educator. I have an awful tendency to be unable to take ideals and mold them to my reality. I just stare up at them and shrink back in intimidation and a sense of failure. My firstborn hasn't helped by being an eager and early writer. Nor has living in a mosquito plagued snake pit full of poison ivy (nature study, anyone?). Then there is just the general feeling of being a frog trying to gallop like a wild mustang (nothing derogatory about frogs implied).

 

I'm about to hunt for an educational philosophy that might afford me a sense of an ability to succeed.

 

Thank-you for reading. Any empathy (even if your experience isn't with CM) would be appreciated.

[FairyMom]

:grouphug: Empathy flowing here. I know all about poison ivy and 110 degrees with mosquitos. I tried very hard to put together CM. I couldn't do it. Maybe some moms with great ideas can post here. :)

[Mergath]

I read a lot of CM a year or so ago, and it sounds so nice in theory. Then I remembered- I'm a nerd. A clumsy, introverted bookworm. We follow some of the CM philosophy for a half hour a day, then we return to our regular bookyness. :D

 

And I think all the chemicals of the last few decades have done something to enhance the mosquito population of the world. If they had to fight off the murderous, poodle-sized beasts we have now back when CM was formulating her philosophy, there's no way people would have spent that much time outside. No way.

[Superfly]

I also love the idea of CM, but I'm not sure I can put it in to practice either. I've tried to inspire my oldest with great ideas, but she is totally not getting it. She reminds me of Pinocchio...great intentions to behave, but she has no desire to follow through. So far child training has only left me more frustrated because CM inspired me to set the bar a little higher.

 

I'm with you on the nature study too. We live in an area where it was 108 all summer and it hasn't rained in our neighborhood in over a year. Anyone up for studying dead trees and dying birds??? We did find a dead snake dried up and stuck to our dead lawn. :tongue_smilie:

 

I grew up in MN, so I have all these great memories of ponds, lakes, frogs, bunnies, and walking to the nearby farm. I used to spend whole afternoons sitting in our willowtree having tea parties. I wish I could give that same gift to my girls, but we don't plan on moving any time soon.

[Critterfixer]

I don't do group hugs. But I can understand how you feel. Particularly when it comes to the snake-infested poison ivy patch, because just a week ago the son and I evicted a very angry, aggressive 4 foot rat snake out of the chicken coop while my brave dogs hung back and watched.

But I chalked that up for nature study. Some day my son may need to know how to deal with a big, angry snake in a way that doesn't involve using things with sharp edges.

 

I think a mistake that most people make when it comes to educational philosophy, whether it is CM or Classical as laid out in TWTM is that they have the Mona Lisa in their minds, then they go home and try to paint it. And they are disappointed when it doesn't look like the original!!

If they are determined, they throw the canvas away and start again on the same picture, or they go back to the museum for another picture to try to emulate.

The truth is, that most of us don't start out great educators, just like most of us don't start out as great artists, even if we have some artistic talent. But that doesn't mean that we can't learn to draw or paint, and at some point, might even manage our own imitation of the Mona Lisa. Better yet, we take the tools we have, hone them, and make something completely our own.

We beat ourselves up far too often when we don't measure up to some high standard we set for ourselves, and our children. Learning to let go of the unreasonable expectations and embracing what is--well, that's probably the biggest, important thing I've learned in my life.

[veggiegal]

Can you keep the bits of CM that work for you, and ditch the rest? I have yet to find an educational philosophy that suits our family to a T; what we do is a hybrid of different ideas. From CM, we read quality literature not twaddle (for the most part :tongue_smilie:); we keep our lessons short and focused; we are more structured in the morning and less so in the afternoon; and we try to spend time in nature when we can. (I also live where there are crazy mosquitoes in summer...and we have -20s in winter, so being outside 'every day' just isn't realistic). You don't need to throw the baby out with the bathwater; keep what works, and leave the rest.

 

And if you do find the 'perfect' educational philosophy, please let the rest of us in on it, ok? :D

[Mergath]

I grew up in MN, so I have all these great memories of ponds, lakes, frogs, bunnies, and walking to the nearby farm. I used to spend whole afternoons sitting in our willowtree having tea parties. I wish I could give that same gift to my girls, but we don't plan on moving any time soon.

 

I live in Minnesota right now, and it is beautiful. However, it's hard to see the beauty of nature when you have mosquitos biting your eyeballs. I'm thinking of maybe getting some of those outfits beekeepers wear for dd and I next summer. :tongue_smilie:

[thesmileofGod]

I too love the ideas of CM. I could include all of the things that she suggests if I didn't also have to cook and clean occasionally. So, I do what I can and try not to worry about what we don't do (easier said than done). I'm no help just commiserating here. Gina

[boscopup]

For your reluctant writer, I recommend starting out with SWB's writing method. She clearly understands boys! :) Her audio lecture is very much worth the $3.99.

 

But yeah, take from CM what works, and combine it with something else that works. Most of us combine philosophies, just like we do with other aspects of parenting (I have yet to read a parenting book I completely agree with. How about you?)

 

The CM police won't come after you. ;)

[Superfly]

I live in Minnesota right now, and it is beautiful. However, it's hard to see the beauty of nature when you have mosquitos biting your eyeballs. I'm thinking of maybe getting some of those outfits beekeepers wear for dd and I next summer. :tongue_smilie:

Or just bathe in industrial strength repellent. It's funny I barely remember all the misquitos, but I can still remember the smell of thr dead frogs and nightcrawlers that covered the street in spring.

[8filltheheart]

I think reading through multiple educational philosophies and different methodologies is actually vital in finding your homeschool "feet." Some are able to find one that meshes w/their families easily, but others have to struggle to find their "fit." Our homeschool is a morph of multiple methods but most based on a single philosophy. Don't feel trapped by CM. Incorporate what works and jettison the rest.

[Evergreen Academy]

I understand! It is so hard when we have an ideal, and real life and real children can be so far from it sometimes! Lovely, different, but not the picture we had in our minds. Perhaps you could take what you love, and leave the rest behind?

 

Regarding CM, I don't know that the HOD program it looks like you're doing would be really considered CM, and in fact, I can see that it might hold back an eager little learner if she is beyond it. Have you tried looking at the Ambleside Online early years? They are very advanced, and may have something to offer your eager learner.

 

Nature study - I hear you. Lots of mosquitoes here and if it would ever stop raining, I would be so happy. But we do love many of the natural science books listed on AO, and the Christian Liberty Nature Readers are other fun ways to introduce more interest in nature, and to encourage narration, for that matter - they are Littlest's favorite books to narrate. I recently was advised by a CM expert to have the kids start a "list of firsts" for fall; one column for red, one for yellow, one for purple, and have them list things they've seen. Doesn't require being outside a terribly long time or handling slimey things. :)

 

Go slowly, and be gentle with yourself. We've been working our way in this direction for some years now, and this is the first year we've done picture study, thanks to the wonderful, idiot-proofed kits that Simply Charlotte Mason sells. Doing that little bit once a week, and looking at the pictures we've hung up through the week makes me feel like we are doing something I've always wanted to do. Take small steps in the direction you want, remember your dc will be learning, no matter what approach you are taking, and try to remember that the perfect CM or any other approach we have in our minds, most likely only exists there.

[FO4UR]

I think reading through multiple educational philosophies and different methodologies is actually vital in finding your homeschool "feet." Some are able to find one that meshes w/their families easily, but others have to struggle to find their "fit." Our homeschool is a morph of multiple methods but most based on a single philosophy. Don't feel trapped by CM. Incorporate what works and jettison the rest.

 

 

:iagree:

 

 

Pull out the over-arching wisdom.

 

"I am. I can. I ought. I will." applies to so many things.

 

Our world is different than CM's world...but we can mold "atmosphere, discipline, life" to our own families. (When my bored child stands at the bookshelves fingering the spines of books to find something to claim...I have succeeded in my CM world.;) )

 

 

I would think it odd if you pulled off CM education 100% exactly as she did...I would think you missed the point.

[SorrelZG]

Commiseration is appreciated at least as much as help.

 

I appreciate the encouraging words also. Letting go of unreasonable expectations for myself and embracing what is will probably be the biggest thing I've learned also as soon as I learn it.

 

I don't know if I will ever be able to find a perfect-fit philosophy but I want to SO bad. I want it all to work out perfectly like those neat little boxes in HOD (although that's not working out as planned either, mostly due that slow start). And no, HOD isn't "pure" CM. That's something I like in some ways and not in others. I'm needing something more CM in some ways and less so in others.

 

I'm leaning classical but I want picture study and composer study and art. No busywork. Handicrafts. Storytelling. And I only want it to take up half the day even when I am schooling 4 children. What philosophy is that and what curriculum has it all planned out for me?

 

 

For your reluctant writer, I recommend starting out with SWB's writing method. She clearly understands boys! :) Her audio lecture is very much worth the $3.99.

 

 

I may have worded that awkwardly - he is an early and eager writer and that is what doesn't help with her whole slow start principle. I started a thread about this recently because I conflicted with reading about CM not starting spelling until 8 or 9 and meticulous about the child never seeing an incorrectly spelled word and meanwhile, I have a 5yo doing his own copywork, written narrations, original stories (the beginnings, at least), hymns (the theological, rather than fuzzy, kind - I had to run it by DH to be certain it was sound). So here I am, torn and conflicted over these 2 points (start age, preventing misspellings), CM heretic whichever way I turn, choosing the path of formal studied dictation with a 5yo (and he's thriving with it) and I still felt guilty and embarrassed.

 

I need to go print out that thread. It was very encouraging and empowering (and how quickly I forget).

 

 

 

I would think it odd if you pulled off CM education 100% exactly as she did...I would think you missed the point.

 

Not seeing the forest for the trees is something I am good at .. unfortunately.

[Critterfixer]

Letting go of unreasonable expectations for myself and embracing what is will probably be the biggest thing I've learned also as soon as I learn it.

 

Learning that and always remembering what it means...two different things.

 

I'm leaning classical but I want picture study and composer study and art. No busywork. Handicrafts. Storytelling. And I only want it to take up half the day even when I am schooling 4 children. What philosophy is that and what curriculum has it all planned out for me?

 

While I'm not sure about the handicrafts (read busywork for Mom) I think aspiring to somehow include all those things is not a bad thing. But if you think about the economy of your time, sometimes you have to sigh, and regretfully put that item back on the shelf for when you have more time.

Currently geography is my hang-up. I'd love to have geography as part of our line-up. The economy of time says that I'd better devote that time to improving reading skills. Then they can read their geography lesson when we have time to spend on it.

[boscopup]

I'm leaning classical but I want picture study and composer study and art. No busywork. Handicrafts. Storytelling. And I only want it to take up half the day even when I am schooling 4 children. What philosophy is that and what curriculum has it all planned out for me?

 

I wouldn't expect any curriculum to be done before lunch in the middle school to high school years, but WTM-style classical is easily done before lunch for grammar stage. It takes us about 2-2.5 hours for 2nd grade, including the dawdling that is bound to happen. ;)

 

I may have worded that awkwardly - he is an early and eager writer and that is what doesn't help with her whole slow start principle.

Oh! Yes, I'd probably look at what Angela's Satori is doing, as that might help you pick some materials. Totally opposite of what I have going on here. :lol:

 

A slow start is needed for many kids and is developmentally appropriate, BUT if your kid develops faster in certain areas and is ready for more, by all means, give him more! :D Even SWB acknowledges that some kids hit the "stages" quicker than others in certain subjects, and for those kids, you'd use materials for the appropriate stage, regardless of age.

 

You're in those early stages of figuring out where your accelerated learner is. It's tough! You may not find a boxed curriculum that has everything planned out for you, though it isn't a bad idea to take a look at the ones that let you sub your own language arts and math. I know HOD lets you do that, though you probably need to be in a higher guide that does more writing. HOD may not be a good fit, at least for a while. You may be able to use it later when the skills have evened out a bit. Don't be afraid to go on your own though. Write down a list of subjects you need to cover (I used WTM to guide me in this), then pick the curricula and appropriate levels. It's really not that hard. Right now you only have one schooling, so focus on that, and don't worry about schooling 4 kids yet. Ultimately I'd like to combine my kids, but right now, the oldest two are in very different places academically (one is reading at middle, devouring every history/science book he comes across, doing math 2 grades up, etc.... while the other is still on the cusp of reading, learning very basic math, not ready to understand much history, etc.). I just can't combine them right now in anything but maybe art. Later on, I might be able to combine history and science, but not now. So I'm planning for DS1 to be separate from his brother for a while. When they're 5th and 2nd grades, I might be able to combine history/science... or I might get there and decide they still can't be combined. We'll see. I won't have all 3 in school for 3 more years, so I'm not concerned about it that much. A lot can change in 3 years, and a lot of new curricula could be released in 3 years. ;)

 

I also have no plans for school to be done by lunch time when I have 3 in school. By that time, I'll have a 5th grader, so he'll need to work into the afternoon a bit anyway, even if he's independent of me. That's just life homeschooling. Once they get to a certain level, they need more time to work. As long as they aren't working that long because of useless busy work, it's ok! When you have things like math taking an hour, etc... it adds up. I expect I'll likely have to work until 2-3pm when I have all 3 kids schooling. That's just how homeschooling often is. I'd be surprised to see very many people with 4 school aged kids actually finishing before lunch, except maybe Megan with her triplets where it's all combined kids working at lower grammar stage. :D

[coffeefreak]

I think a mistake that most people make when it comes to educational philosophy, whether it is CM or Classical as laid out in TWTM is that they have the Mona Lisa in their minds, then they go home and try to paint it. And they are disappointed when it doesn't look like the original!!

If they are determined, they throw the canvas away and start again on the same picture, or they go back to the museum for another picture to try to emulate.

The truth is, that most of us don't start out great educators, just like most of us don't start out as great artists, even if we have some artistic talent. But that doesn't mean that we can't learn to draw or paint, and at some point, might even manage our own imitation of the Mona Lisa. Better yet, we take the tools we have, hone them, and make something completely our own.

We beat ourselves up far too often when we don't measure up to some high standard we set for ourselves, and our children. Learning to let go of the unreasonable expectations and embracing what is--well, that's probably the biggest, important thing I've learned in my life.

 

I LOVE what you've said here! Where were you 7 years ago when I started homeschooling? :D

 

I think reading through multiple educational philosophies and different methodologies is actually vital in finding your homeschool "feet." Some are able to find one that meshes w/their families easily, but others have to struggle to find their "fit." Our homeschool is a morph of multiple methods but most based on a single philosophy. Don't feel trapped by CM. Incorporate what works and jettison the rest.

 

:iagree:

 

I don't know if I will ever be able to find a perfect-fit philosophy but I want to SO bad. I want it all to work out perfectly like those neat little boxes in HOD (although that's not working out as planned either, mostly due that slow start). And no, HOD isn't "pure" CM. That's something I like in some ways and not in others. I'm needing something more CM in some ways and less so in others.

 

What do you like and what don't you like? AND WHY don't you like it? Is it you, your child, the program? Some programs I tried in the beginning, hated, swore I'd never use them again and ended up eating crow and using them later. Some I loved, but my child didn't. Some we both loved, but when we added my other dd into the mix, SHE didn't love it. UGH!

 

I'm leaning classical but I want picture study and composer study and art. No busywork. Handicrafts. Storytelling. And I only want it to take up half the day even when I am schooling 4 children. What philosophy is that and what curriculum has it all planned out for me?

 

Ambleside Online or Simply Charlotte Mason. Hands down. I did Ambleside for a semester and we (my older dd and I) really enjoyed it. It was freeing, it was simple. We were done in the morning. However, I, like a pp, am a nerd and set in my ways about certain things. I do grammar from the get go. I do writing from the get go. So, I adapted, but I decided because I have two very different children I needed something slightly different. Hence why we use MFW.

 

 

 

Check out Ambleside's website. I think you'll like it.

 

Blessings!

Dorinda

[twoxcell]

I think you are making these things too big in your mind. Composer study, artist study, and nature study can all be very simple and short things especially at 5. For composer study get a book like Carnival of the animals or Story of the orchestra, then one day a week sit down and read one section and listen to the song. For Artist study get some books like the come and look with me series and read about 1-2 pictures a week. For nature study when you can get out in nature and have a walk. Take along a sketch book and some pencils and encourage your little ones to draw something they see. When you can't get out in nature find interesting books about nature and read them together. To me Cm is about short intentional lessons that are meaningful and not busy work.:grouphug:

[LAS in LA]

[quote

 

 

Pull out the over-arching wisdom.

 

"I am. I can. I ought. I will." applies to so many things.

 

Our world is different than CM's world...but we can mold "atmosphere, discipline, life" to our own families. (When my bored child stands at the bookshelves fingering the spines of books to find something to claim...I have succeeded in my CM world.;) )

 

 

I would think it odd if you pulled off CM education 100% exactly as she did...I would think you missed the point.

 

:iagree:

[chepyl]

Uneasy very inspired by Charlotte Mason when I started last year. I wanted to do everything her way. I quickly learned that I could not. We sat on a blanket outside to read and look at clouds. My back was achy the rest of the day, the sun reflected off of the pages amd made impossible to read, and the dog wanted to be a part of everything! I also needed to cover more with my Kindy than she would have. He needed it and wanted it.

 

Now, I keep the short lessons. It is rare that we spend more than 20 minutes on any subject. We do not cover art and music at home. He takes dance and musical theatre classes in the evening and I just can't do the art studies with my 3 year old running around.

 

We are Classical/WTM in our history and science cycles, grammar, and memory work.

 

I guess you could say I unschool art...if they want some art I give them some supplies and let tuem go.

 

Math is "school at home" we do the text lesson for the concept, he does the wkbk, I grade, we correct....all sitting in his little schol desk ;)

 

Keep trying new things, you will find what works. Bit I do u.derstand about dropping the CM and feeling bad about it.

[SorrelZG]

 

While I'm not sure about the handicrafts (read busywork for Mom) I think aspiring to somehow include all those things is not a bad thing. But if you think about the economy of your time, sometimes you have to sigh, and regretfully put that item back on the shelf for when you have more time.

Currently geography is my hang-up. I'd love to have geography as part of our line-up. The economy of time says that I'd better devote that time to improving reading skills. Then they can read their geography lesson when we have time to spend on it.

 

I'm currently having a vague recollection of reading about someone planning handicrafts as a summer term subject. I can see the wisdom in that. They can crochet all they want through the year after they've learned how but, you're right, the teaching of such things will doubtfully work out with the economy of time through the school year.

 

I think you are making these things too big in your mind. Composer study, artist study, and nature study can all be very simple and short things especially at 5.

 

I am. So much so that I get physical tension in my arms when I think about nature study. It doesn't help that The Handbook of Nature Study is such an intimidatingly big book. I know I'm being absurd and yet there it is.

 

 

Check out Ambleside's website. I think you'll like it.

 

I have the book list and Year 1 schedule printed out by my bedside .. along with my countless other booklists, educational philosophy books, curriculum catalogs and a notepad where I sketch out all the possible plans for the next 18 years that I can imagine.

 

Your words will have me going over it and my notebook again.

 

I wouldn't expect any curriculum to be done before lunch in the middle school to high school years, but WTM-style classical is easily done before lunch for grammar stage. It takes us about 2-2.5 hours for 2nd grade, including the dawdling that is bound to happen. ;)

 

A slow start is needed for many kids and is developmentally appropriate, BUT if your kid develops faster in certain areas and is ready for more, by all means, give him more! :D Even SWB acknowledges that some kids hit the "stages" quicker than others in certain subjects, and for those kids, you'd use materials for the appropriate stage, regardless of age.

 

You're in those early stages of figuring out where your accelerated learner is. It's tough! You may not find a boxed curriculum that has everything planned out for you, though it isn't a bad idea to take a look at the ones that let you sub your own language arts and math. I know HOD lets you do that, though you probably need to be in a higher guide that does more writing. HOD may not be a good fit, at least for a while. You may be able to use it later when the skills have evened out a bit. Don't be afraid to go on your own though. Write down a list of subjects you need to cover (I used WTM to guide me in this), then pick the curricula and appropriate levels. It's really not that hard. Right now you only have one schooling, so focus on that, and don't worry about schooling 4 kids yet.

 

It helps me to read about what you're doing and planning for your children because you are far more reasonable and clear headed than I am. I think I need to be reading the things that you read because I haven't come across anything about some children hitting the "stages" quicker and I've been stressing over trying to fit my square peg into round holes.

 

I'm going to be considering all of your suggested curriculum possibilities.

 

And the time thing .. well .. hopefully by then I will have eased into the increased time and workload requirements. I remember when the idea of actually remembering to do a single HOP lesson a day (color a letter, play a short computer game), 4 days a week was overwhelming to me. Trust me, I've come a long way!

[twoxcell]

I am. So much so that I get physical tension in my arms when I think about nature study. It doesn't help that The Handbook of Nature Study is such an intimidatingly big book. I know I'm being absurd and yet there it is.

 

I look at it this way. Is it better to have not done these things at all because I can't do them to a perfect standard, or to have simply jumped in and done them. KWIM If Handbook of Nature Study intimidates you sell it and get something smaller for now. I don't own the Handbook of Nature Study(I do have it on my Nook I think). ;)

[Alte Veste Academy]

Originally I was inspired by Charlotte Mason but time has found me discouraged as a parent and educator. I have an awful tendency to be unable to take ideals and mold them to my reality. I just stare up at them and shrink back in intimidation and a sense of failure. My firstborn hasn't helped by being an eager and early writer. Nor has living in a mosquito plagued snake pit full of poison ivy (nature study, anyone?). Then there is just the general feeling of being a frog trying to gallop like a wild mustang (nothing derogatory about frogs implied).

 

I'm about to hunt for an educational philosophy that might afford me a sense of an ability to succeed.

 

Thank-you for reading. Any empathy (even if your experience isn't with CM) would be appreciated.

 

Here is a bucket-load of empathy for you. :)

 

I struggled with similar issues about a year and a half ago. I gave things a great deal of thought, then started another school year (2010-2011). I am happy to say that it was a fantastic year and this year is even better, mostly because I decided to be me. Just me. Not a perfect example of one educational philosophy or another, just a passionate homeschooling mom who finally got frustrated enough to crawl out from under all the homeschool philosophy books, methods, curriculum catalogs, blog post print-outs, etc., etc., etc. I even left these boards for a good while in order to regain my independence of thought.

 

I think reading through multiple educational philosophies and different methodologies is actually vital in finding your homeschool "feet." Some are able to find one that meshes w/their families easily, but others have to struggle to find their "fit." Our homeschool is a morph of multiple methods but most based on a single philosophy. Don't feel trapped by CM. Incorporate what works and jettison the rest.

 

I agree with this. I definitely agree that it can be a struggle. I was simultaneously enlightened and overwhelmed by the amount of reading I did. At the point where you lose sight of your own reasons for and vision of homeschooling, it's time to put away the books.

 

Commiseration is appreciated at least as much as help.

 

I appreciate the encouraging words also. Letting go of unreasonable expectations for myself and embracing what is will probably be the biggest thing I've learned also as soon as I learn it.

 

I don't know if I will ever be able to find a perfect-fit philosophy but I want to SO bad. I want it all to work out perfectly like those neat little boxes in HOD (although that's not working out as planned either, mostly due that slow start). And no, HOD isn't "pure" CM. That's something I like in some ways and not in others. I'm needing something more CM in some ways and less so in others.

 

I'm leaning classical but I want picture study and composer study and art. No busywork. Handicrafts. Storytelling. And I only want it to take up half the day even when I am schooling 4 children. What philosophy is that and what curriculum has it all planned out for me?

 

I know what philosophy it is! It's your philosophy! And that's OK. Really, it is.

 

I'm here to tell you, don't make a list of pros and cons of CM vs WTM, HOD vs SOTW, blah blah blah vs yadda yadda yadda. Make a list of what you want in a curriculum and find the components that work with your vision.

 

I may have worded that awkwardly - he is an early and eager writer and that is what doesn't help with her whole slow start principle. I started a thread about this recently because I conflicted with reading about CM not starting spelling until 8 or 9 and meticulous about the child never seeing an incorrectly spelled word and meanwhile, I have a 5yo doing his own copywork, written narrations, original stories (the beginnings, at least), hymns (the theological, rather than fuzzy, kind - I had to run it by DH to be certain it was sound). So here I am, torn and conflicted over these 2 points (start age, preventing misspellings), CM heretic whichever way I turn, choosing the path of formal studied dictation with a 5yo (and he's thriving with it) and I still felt guilty and embarrassed.

 

If your kids are early writers or want hard science in first grade, do not let philosophy get in the way of maternal instinct and support of natural gifts. Guilty and embarrassed should not be feelings you associate with making choices that honor your child's love of learning! CM was making curriculum choices for schools full of children, not your particular child in 2011. Who knows your child best? You, the person who spends 24/7/365 tending to his needs, or a woman who died almost 100 years ago? :tongue_smilie:

 

I recommend trying your best to let go of philosophy and find your own way.

Edited October 4, 2011 by Alte Veste Academy

[Alte Veste Academy]

I'm currently having a vague recollection of reading about someone planning handicrafts as a summer term subject. I can see the wisdom in that. They can crochet all they want through the year after they've learned how but, you're right, the teaching of such things will doubtfully work out with the economy of time through the school year.

 

I say again that CM was planning for schools. You are at home. You do not need to consider handicrafts a school subject so much as hobbies for your children. You don't need to fit them into the school schedule. Fit them into your life. Half the fun lifestyle stuff my kids do around here is (unbeknownst to them) school. I do a lot of stealth schooling. :D

 

I am. So much so that I get physical tension in my arms when I think about nature study. It doesn't help that The Handbook of Nature Study is such an intimidatingly big book. I know I'm being absurd and yet there it is.

 

:grouphug: I know what this feels like. It's guilt from your own high expectations. Are you a perfectionist? (I feel like that's a question that does not need asking here. :lol:) Reflect on it though. I am a perfectionist and I am way too hard on myself. You can get paralyzed by perfectionism. It's what happened to me and it was painfully humbling.

 

I have the book list and Year 1 schedule printed out by my bedside .. along with my countless other booklists, educational philosophy books, curriculum catalogs and a notepad where I sketch out all the possible plans for the next 18 years that I can imagine.

 

Your words will have me going over it and my notebook again.

 

The best thing you can do now is to put that notebook away. In fact, put all your books and notes and catalogs away, for a week or two, or a month--basically until you feel strong enough to read them with confidence and self-awareness and, more importantly, without guilt.

 

If you can't live without a notebook, I've got an idea for you. Get a blank notebook and observe your kids for a week or two. Write down notes about their strengths and weaknesses. Look with your own eyes instead of through the lens of a curriculum or philosophy. When they go to bed, resist the research and make a list of your own strengths and weaknesses. Make a plan to work to your strengths and bolster your weaknesses. When the too-many-curriculum-choices-and-philosophies sickness has passed, start looking for individual programs that work for you and your kids, regardless of their philosophical underpinnings.

[LoveBaby]

I don't do group hugs. But I can understand how you feel. Particularly when it comes to the snake-infested poison ivy patch, because just a week ago the son and I evicted a very angry, aggressive 4 foot rat snake out of the chicken coop while my brave dogs hung back and watched.

But I chalked that up for nature study. Some day my son may need to know how to deal with a big, angry snake in a way that doesn't involve using things with sharp edges.

 

I think a mistake that most people make when it comes to educational philosophy, whether it is CM or Classical as laid out in TWTM is that they have the Mona Lisa in their minds, then they go home and try to paint it. And they are disappointed when it doesn't look like the original!!

If they are determined, they throw the canvas away and start again on the same picture, or they go back to the museum for another picture to try to emulate.

The truth is, that most of us don't start out great educators, just like most of us don't start out as great artists, even if we have some artistic talent. But that doesn't mean that we can't learn to draw or paint, and at some point, might even manage our own imitation of the Mona Lisa. Better yet, we take the tools we have, hone them, and make something completely our own.

We beat ourselves up far too often when we don't measure up to some high standard we set for ourselves, and our children. Learning to let go of the unreasonable expectations and embracing what is--well, that's probably the biggest, important thing I've learned in my life.

 

Bolding mine! :iagree::iagree:

 

This is probably one of the single best pieces of advice that I've read on these boards.

 

Don't feel as if you are a CM failure, mama. And don't try to become what the books say it should look like overnight - babysteps are key. This is coming from someone who regularly de-rails myself with perfectionist tendencies. Pick one thing - like picture study - look at a great piece of art on the computer, tell your child who painted it and what it is called and then talk about their favorite part. That can be your picture study. It might not look like CM's version, but it got done, you can feel good and your child just discovered something they didn't know before!

[boscopup]

I think I need to be reading the things that you read because I haven't come across anything about some children hitting the "stages" quicker and I've been stressing over trying to fit my square peg into round holes.

 

It was in one of SWB's lectures... I can't remember if it's the writing one or the Homeschooling the Real Child one. I need to listen to them again, but maybe someone else will chime in with which one it is. The Homeschooling the Real Child lecture was really helpful to me, and it also shows that we CAN modify things from what we read. We don't have to strictly hold to a philosophy. We're homeschooling real children, not ideal children. Sometimes we need to be creative about things. Sometimes we need to change things around. Children are not robots. :)

 

And the time thing .. well .. hopefully by then I will have eased into the increased time and workload requirements. I remember when the idea of actually remembering to do a single HOP lesson a day (color a letter, play a short computer game), 4 days a week was overwhelming to me. Trust me, I've come a long way!

:lol: Totally understand! I've gotten more relaxed as time has gone on. I even added in my DS2 officially yesterday, and it wasn't that bad at all. I wasn't ready to school more than one 9 months ago, but now it's ok.

 

Having a rough schedule laid out helps me a lot. We don't stick to it strictly at all, but knowing that we CAN fit things into certain time slots realistically helps a lot. We may change the order of subjects when we actually implement the schedule, but that doesn't lengthen the time schooling. You can throw in housework time to the schedule too, if you need to (I have sort of, though I don't always do it :tongue_smilie:).

[FO4UR]

 

 

 

...CM heretic whichever way I turn, choosing the path of formal studied dictation with a 5yo (and he's thriving with it) and I still felt guilty and embarrassed.

 

 

 

 

 

Not seeing the forest for the trees is something I am good at .. unfortunately.

 

 

CM is not a goddess. Yank her down from the pedestal...pry her books from your tight grip...let her go...breath...:chillpill:

 

 

 

Your ds is thriving with something!!! Celebrate!!!:party: And keep doing it!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

Let go of the guilt. Your ds was not born to exemplify a Charlotte Mason Education. That is not his purpose. He was evidently born to write in some way, shape, or form...I'd be researching the snot out of how to cultivate that...from the standpoint of every philosphy I could find. Get dizzy with information...cull it down to what works for your ds.

 

 

First, I'd take Alte Veste Academy's advice and simply put all the research and philosophies away for a time. Just focus on your dc. This is ironic advice b/c CM is strong on "Children are born persons."...meaning, I think she herself would probably say as much. Forest for the Trees!:iagree:

 

 

And...for the sake of transparency, I have many of the same feelings, thoughts, and hang-ups over ds8's math. I leave math threads feeling guilty that I'm not giving him a good solid math education that would annihilate every ounce of love he has for the subject.:001_huh: Makes no sense...forest for the trees...but we have GREAT weeks when I avoid those threads.;)

[delaney]

I feel your pain. Just once could I get my hands on a curriculum that I don't have to alter, tweak, rewrite....whatever. My older DD is NOT a classical girl and the encyclopedia and note taking make her turn visible shades of green. Younger DD loves to write, take notes.....great for classical. Then there is the 5 year old energizer bunny. Not ready to sit for more than 5 minutes, loves nature and exploring, and totally needs CM style. Great. 3 kids who fit no single curriculum. So I pick and choose. I have incorporated AO with SCM for the most part. It is A LOT of reading so I have to cut some stuff out. Pilgrim's Progress? BORING Not going down that road. If mama don't enjoy it ain't no one gonna enjoy it!

Pick the parts that work for you and make your own way. With the exception of TOG, I have yet to find something that really works for all my kids. You might want to look at that as an option. It really is amazing.

[8filltheheart]

 

I don't know if I will ever be able to find a perfect-fit philosophy but I want to SO bad. I want it all to work out perfectly like those neat little boxes in HOD (although that's not working out as planned either, mostly due that slow start). And no, HOD isn't "pure" CM. That's something I like in some ways and not in others. I'm needing something more CM in some ways and less so in others.

 

I'm leaning classical but I want picture study and composer study and art. No busywork. Handicrafts. Storytelling. And I only want it to take up half the day even when I am schooling 4 children. What philosophy is that and what curriculum has it all planned out for me?

 

 

I wonder if part of the anxiety is b/c at its heart, CM philosophy and box checking are sort of at odds.

 

I think what you are describing sounds like Oak Meadow in some ways. http://www.oakmeadow.com/curriculum/philosophy.php I'm not sure that I am helping or hurting by showing you something else, though. :confused:

 

Based on your post about your ds being 5 and your ds being your oldest, my biggest suggestion would be to simply relax and have fun. There is absolutely nothing you can mess up when they are 5 except for doing so much work that they don't like anything to do with school. It doesn't sound like that is an issue, so use this yr to sort through what you like and don't like as a teacher and what connects w/your kids and what doesn'.t

 

You can accomplish nothing this yr academically but end up farther ahead in reality b/c knowing how you want to approach things can keep you from spending time spinning wheels or switching materials constantly.

[Mrs. A]

I get physical tension in my arms when I think about nature study. It doesn't help that The Handbook of Nature Study is such an intimidatingly big book. I know I'm being absurd and yet there it is.

 

have you seen the Handbook of Nature Study blog? http://handbookofnaturestudy.blogpspot.com she makes the book WAY less inimidating and leads you through it in small steps that are completely do-able. (Now if the weather and the bugs and other stuff didn't get in the way it would be perfect.... ;)

[Blueridge]

:grouphug: I remember the *first* nature study outing my girls and I tried. I sat on a picnic table bench that was apparently covered with chiggers. :tongue_smilie: On another nature walk, I stepped alongside a fire ant bed. Thankfully, I didn't give up on nature. We've just kept a very low-key approach to it. Those beautiful nature journals never happened with my younger 3, but they each have other monumental achievements. :) Keep at the writing. It will blossom with time. Reading aloud has been a huge blessing to me and to our family. I will never stop that, as long as I have a voice. Take heart. 'Smooth and easy days' will come. I love visiting the Simply Charlotte Mason site for much encouragement.

[Kfamily]

I'm not the ideal CM person either. I don't do handicrafts at all. I could never find the patience for them as a child (both my mom and grandmother could sew, knit, embroider, etc.) and I have no skills in these areas as an adult. I can sew on a button.:lol: The point being that my dds have been on their own with regard to handicrafts. If they wanted to learn, I encouraged them to learn from someone else. (And my older dd did learn a little from her best friend.) The overall message of doing handicrafts in my opinion (and since I don't do handicrafts I've rarely read in depth about it :001_smile:) is for children to spend their spare time doing something useful, constructive and meaningful. I'm sure there are a few other good reasons that I'm leaving out, but the general meaning is still there. As long as your children are finding constructive outlets in their spare time, then the time you spend on handicrafts should be based on 1) how much you enjoy this and can teach them and 2) how much they enjoy it themselves. My two dds would much rather play outside in dramatic imaginary roles, write, read or draw. These are their useful, constructive and meaningful creative outlets.

I would suggest you read CM's original writings and see what aspects are most important to you and what aspects seem to resonate with who your children are or trying to become. Follow your heart and their hearts too. Find the ideas that work for you and use these to build your first curriculum. Over the years you will probably fine tune this. I think we all do. It has taken me years to find my core philosophy and I'm still working on it as my older dd is still changing and growing. I'm now experiencing teaching at a level that feels so out of my range. I will and have been adjusting my ideas and plans to accomodate life (life does get in the way sometimes), my abilities and the needs of my dds.

I wavered back and forth between CM and Classical. I really do believe that CM is a version of Classical. It is set up differently but I think much of the goals are the same. CM is often portrayed with some very generalized statements. Unfortunately, even many books written by authors who are supposed to be well-versed in her ideas and methods are the very ones who often put forth these statements. There really is a lot more to CM. I'm still reading her works and I still discover more all the time.

Nature Study is important because it encourages attention to detail, developing a love of beauty, discovering the world (and science) on your own and so much more. I wish I could write pages about just one topic. There are so many reasons why it is important. And I know all of this, and yet we struggle to accomplish this ourselves. Life keeps getting in the way, or at least I let it. I keep it on my curriculum list and I keep hoping to accomplish it and one day I hope our environment will lend itself better to helping me meet these goals. For now, it continues to wait.:001_smile:

I think the main theme to me is to find the core values, ideas and skills you want to accomplish with whichever philosophy best fills the majority of them.

I want my girls to find the beauty and value in all that is here on this earth. I want them to strive to create their own forms of communicating this in the most articulate and creative way they can. I want to hone their skills and encourage their ideas. I find that CM helps me do this best. I do not hesistate to borrow from other philosophies to help me fill in where needed.

Sorry, if this was rambling...

Edited October 4, 2011 by Kfamily

[Michele B]

I am the last person to encourage you to follow a homeschool philosophy to the letter - the thought of that makes me itchy!:) I'm a Tweaker by nature.

 

I have recently begun reading CM's original writings as well as the writings of her interpreters. Here are a couple of links that have provided me with food for thought. Good Luck on your journey! :grouphug: And homeschool is a journey not a destination! ;)

 

http://wildflowersandmarbles.blogspot.com/2011/06/balanced-whole-in-charlotte-mason.html

 

http://wildflowersandmarbles.blogspot.com/2011/07/considered-booklist.html

 

http://4real.thenetsmith.com/

[Michele B]

Someone may have already linked this and I missed it.

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/charlotte-mason-education/

 

These articles by SWB and Karen Glass are fantastic!:001_smile:

[Michele B]

I wavered back and forth between CM and Classical. I really do believe that CM is a version of Classical. It is set up differently but I think much of the goals are the same. CM is often portrayed with some very generalized statements. Unfortunately, even many books written by authors who are supposed to be well-versed in her ideas and methods are the very ones who often put forth these statements. There really is a lot more to CM. I'm still reading her works and I still discover more all the time.

 

:iagree:

I thought that was a great post BTW!

 

The SWB article I linked gives specific examples of what you said in the quote above.

[Michele B]

have you seen the Handbook of Nature Study blog? http://handbookofnaturestudy.blogpspot.com she makes the book WAY less inimidating and leads you through it in small steps that are completely do-able. (Now if the weather and the bugs and other stuff didn't get in the way it would be perfect.... ;)

 

:iagree:

 

The Handbook is intimidating, but Harmony Art Mom breaks it down into do-able and pleasant chunks. I highly recommend her blog and her ebooks!

[Tammyla]

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

:grouphug:Growing pains are to be expected.:grouphug:

 

I think reading through multiple educational philosophies and different methodologies is actually vital in finding your homeschool "feet." Some are able to find one that meshes w/their families easily, but others have to struggle to find their "fit." Our homeschool is a morph of multiple methods but most based on a single philosophy. Don't feel trapped by CM. Incorporate what works and jettison the rest.

[justamouse]

You have gotten some fantastic advice here from everyone. Really. Listen to what they say. (I forgot how great the wildflowers and marbles blog is!)

 

ALSO, don't start with Handbook of Nature Study, start with Laurel's book, Nature Study for the Whole Family. It's MUCH more accessible than Handbook.

Edited October 4, 2011 by justamouse

[tessbois]

Some of you folks out there are the best kind of genius. Independent of thought but reaching out to the larger arena for help when you need help or support. I wish I were better at that.

 

There must be some kind of rhythm to developing an education plan at home. Something like: 1) philosophy you like; 2) philosophy struggle; 3) find new philosophy; 4) darn it doesn't work; 5) start kind of smushing a bunch of philosophies together; 6) nothing makes sense; 7) finding who you and your family are as people; 8) children go to Harvard (okay I'm kidding about that).

 

It seems that if one starts with what they want to do, that might be fraught with error. Part of the challenge that all homeschooling parents seek (it really is good for our children to see that struggle) is to find yourselves.

 

I like CM. I also think she developed her philosophy time/place dependent. I don't think she was a country girl. It seems that she made NATURE precious, in the way some people talk about Organic food or farming today. If she were Laura Ingalls Wilder for example, Nature took on a different meaning. Beautiful maybe, but terrifying and potentially life threatening. Learning to read and write took on a much larger importance than nature walks.

 

The struggle is the point to skill building and knowledge

 

And I hope I remember all this lovely advice I'm doling out especially when I just threatened to throw away all the legos in the house if they don't start on their sentences. Almonzo's mother never threatened him!

[SorrelZG]

You have gotten some fantastic advice here from everyone. Really. Listen to what they say. (I forgot how great the wildflowers and marbles blog is!)

 

Yes, I have, and I really will. I'm going to need to print this thread out.

 

Meanwhile, I can't get to the nature study blog because it keeps redirecting me to a blog survey which wants to give me an iPad2 in exchange for my soul.

 

tessbois, you crack me up. Good points, too.

 

I want to respond to everyone but I'm currently overwhelmed with all the encouraging and challenging things I have to think about right now after catching up on the thread.

[caedmyn]

You might look into "My Nature Journal". I don't know if it's exactly CM but that's what I'm going with for my 5 YO (even if she won't utilize most of it until she's a little older). I like it the best of the nature study books I've looked at & I think it's one that will actually get used (meaning I will actually be motivated to help her use it). I tend to be frazzled & overwhelmed at the best of times, and nature study is very low on my priority list. Not to mention 30-50 MPH winds + cold weather at least 8 months out of the year don't make any of us want to spend a great deal of time outside! Fortunately the bugs don't like our weather any more than we do so there aren't too many of them here except for a month or so in the spring when the mosquitoes are bad. Anyhow, nature study for now is a bug jar for beetles & ladybugs and butterflies and grasshoppers...and when the weather isn't too foul the kids spend a lot of time outside in our large backyard. Maybe next spring we'll do some "real" nature study with that journal.

[Chava_Raizel]

I love the CM philosophy, but we certainly aren't rigid about it. I admit, we hardly ever bother with nature study. I'm just not an outdoorsy type of person and for the most part, neither are my kids. If they notice something outside, we'll study it for a bit (think caterpillars, birds, ants, etc.) but as to nature notebooks, and focused nature study, it just doesn't happen. I also rarely manage to do artist or composer studies. I do love reading aloud great books to my kids and giving them great literature to read to themselves. (Though I do allow some twaddle too. ;) )

 

We do copy work and dictation, but we also use a grammar text and some workbooks.

 

I guess we're pretty eclectic, but I still think of myself as a CM homeschooler.

[Critterfixer]

Meanwhile, I can't get to the nature study blog because it keeps redirecting me to a blog survey which wants to give me an iPad2 in exchange for my soul.

 

For some reason this seems really funny this morning.

 

A thought on nature study: I think that there is a tendency to take children on a guided tour when it comes to nature study. I'm pretty sure, from what I've read of CM, that she would think this a pretty poor interpretation. I've done guided tours on plant walks, and I've noticed that after the first plant is found and discussed, the people quit looking around them. They start watching the guide, waiting to be shown the next thing on their tour. And no one actually looks at the place where the plant was found so that they can identify the next one they see more easily.

Some of our best trips into nature come from not having a plan at all, just a backpack with some snacks and water, a hand-lens, a can of bug spray and something to put specimens in if I happen to find any.

[Kertie]

Can you keep the bits of CM that work for you, and ditch the rest? I have yet to find an educational philosophy that suits our family to a T; what we do is a hybrid of different ideas. From CM, we read quality literature not twaddle (for the most part :tongue_smilie:); we keep our lessons short and focused; we are more structured in the morning and less so in the afternoon; and we try to spend time in nature when we can. (I also live where there are crazy mosquitoes in summer...and we have -20s in winter, so being outside 'every day' just isn't realistic). You don't need to throw the baby out with the bathwater; keep what works, and leave the rest.

 

And if you do find the 'perfect' educational philosophy, please let the rest of us in on it, ok? :D

 

:iagree:

[twoxcell]

A thought on nature study: I think that there is a tendency to take children on a guided tour when it comes to nature study. I'm pretty sure, from what I've read of CM, that she would think this a pretty poor interpretation. I've done guided tours on plant walks, and I've noticed that after the first plant is found and discussed, the people quit looking around them. They start watching the guide, waiting to be shown the next thing on their tour. And no one actually looks at the place where the plant was found so that they can identify the next one they see more easily.

Some of our best trips into nature come from not having a plan at all, just a backpack with some snacks and water, a hand-lens, a can of bug spray and something to put specimens in if I happen to find any.

:iagree:

Nature study should be a natural thing not planned out and scripted.

[Mom-ninja.]

I dropped out after our first year.

[Michele B]

http://handbookofnaturestudy.blogspot.com/

 

This one works for me.

[FO4UR]

More thoughts...

 

On philosophy: Instead of thinking pros/cons of each different philosophy (and thinking that you must pick one, follow it to a T, etc...), think in terms of a huge Venn Diagram. Find those themes that overlap, and start with those. Ex. If we compare/contrast TWTM and CM, copywork/narration/dication are THE backbone of early writing instruction...the rest is nuance...tweak to challenge/delight your own child. (As you did...good job!!!)

 

Since you already know your little guy has a gift for writing, I'd start there. Compare/contrast TWTM, CM, and many many more. Get your hands on used currics to see how they present things. Look for those over-lapping themes, the over-arching wisdom. Try things with your ds, and evaluate for yourself...which means you need to quantify goals....which becomes a circular thing b/c your goals may shift as you grow and learn.

 

 

 

Nature study is really only one small part of a CM education. What goals were being met by CM in her nature studies? Are those goals applicable to your family? If so, is this the best method for your family to reach those goals? The abundance of Zoos/Museums, quality Documentaries and nice Picture Books on animals/plants/science changes *my* view on nature study somewhat. The world is a big BIG place...CM didn't have all of the resources we enjoy today.

[mommymilkies]

I read a lot of CM a year or so ago, and it sounds so nice in theory. Then I remembered- I'm a nerd. A clumsy, introverted bookworm. We follow some of the CM philosophy for a half hour a day, then we return to our regular bookyness. :D

 

And I think all the chemicals of the last few decades have done something to enhance the mosquito population of the world. If they had to fight off the murderous, poodle-sized beasts we have now back when CM was formulating her philosophy, there's no way people would have spent that much time outside. No way.

 

:iagree::lol:

[Bluegoat]

I think it's important to think about why nature study is important to get the most out of it and to fit it into your life. To me the really important components are:

 

Being outdoors is very healthy, and it has an important affect on brain development, mood, etc.

 

Having unscripted time to fiddle with stuff and be self directed is essential to learning.

 

Kids are concrete learners, and even adults learning is based on concrete experiences from childhood. Nature study is about experiencing things as much as it is about studying them.

 

For us, we are bookish, and I have small kids, and it is cold and rainy herre a lot. Also, like most people these days, it is hard to let your kids just go out, even if you are willing, because it isn't really socially acceptable.

 

We don't do a lot of directed study, other than twice a month with science club kids. But I try to remember that it is really important to us to get out n nature regularly. I don't need to script it, the kids will get into it on their own if we just leave them be. But it's because I'm bookish I find I need to be conscious of getting outside.

 

This year I've made arrangements to meet a friend once a week and do a hike or walk or something. We might have some activities planned, but not necessarily, and it works really well - the kids play and look at stuff and it is easier to get out having made a commitment. Dd1 also does a lot of outdoor things with her dad like fishing and camping, which IMO counts as nature study.

 

How important is it? I think for roughly elementary school kids it is probably more important than art appreciation or even some non-skill academic subjects.

 

On a practical note, a big issue for comfortable time outside I think is the right kind of clothes for the climate and geography in all weather.